EPT[D] Unbeatable 2v2 Build ? (PZ) - Page 11
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Slago
Canada726 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
a comp that is 10x stronger than this is TZ.. zerg does the same thing but the terran rushes reactored helions. optik and i have faced this comp like 5 times and haven't taken a single game off of it as r/r. I think this is by far the strongest 2v2 strategy. | ||
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tainted muffin
United States158 Posts
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
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BuzZoo
Australia1468 Posts
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bigbeau
368 Posts
On February 20 2011 17:23 BuzZoo wrote: rushing hellion against this? zerg can switch to roach very quick zerg is all in, protoss is more allin | ||
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MuazizTremere
Netherlands67 Posts
Thing is, a protoss doing this is extremely easily scouted. There will be gas, but no probes mining it and there will be a chronoboosted core. Once you see that, all you need to do is put some static up and you win the game right there. What's also fun to do is send out 1-2 marines to take down the overlord that's coming your way. That way zerg not only gets supply-blocked, but also takes away their high-ground vision removing the only real strength from this build - high ground warp-ins. I certainly concur it's near-unbeatable if you don't see it coming, but if you do it's childishly easy to defend it. | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
In the midwest championship lan this build is everywhere. Some people have gone for Baneling/Hellion to counter successfully, others have tried to blind counter it and failed miserably. | ||
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Geiko
France1942 Posts
On February 20 2011 17:58 MuazizTremere wrote: Me and my 2v2 mate have been hit by this a lot as well, but after getting destroyed by it the first 2-3 times we now shake it off pretty easy. Thing is, a protoss doing this is extremely easily scouted. There will be gas, but no probes mining it and there will be a chronoboosted core. Once you see that, all you need to do is put some static up and you win the game right there. What's also fun to do is send out 1-2 marines to take down the overlord that's coming your way. That way zerg not only gets supply-blocked, but also takes away their high-ground vision removing the only real strength from this build - high ground warp-ins. I certainly concur it's near-unbeatable if you don't see it coming, but if you do it's childishly easy to defend it. Static defence will not win you a 2vs1 battle (if you have static defence, you don"t have units to help your ally) Also the reason zerg gets a pool at 10 instead of at 13 is specificaly to be out in time to -deny scouting (even though you can scout the saving up chrono boost before the lings come) -protect the proxy probe and pylon (you can't send marines to kill it...) | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
All that's left is a zerg, and one of us expo, one of us tech blue flame. Thing is, a protoss doing this is extremely easily scouted. There will be gas, but no probes mining it and there will be a chronoboosted core. Once you see that, all you need to do is put some static up and you win the game right there. What's also fun to do is send out 1-2 marines to take down the overlord that's coming your way. That way zerg not only gets supply-blocked, but also takes away their high-ground vision removing the only real strength from this build - high ground warp-ins. On bigger maps, we do that. We know there's a floating eyeball somewhere, so sacing 2/4 marines to end an entire strategy and put you ahead is rather funny. On RT is a totally different story. I do much better with people I know (obviously) than with randoms. | ||
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Rotodyne
United States2263 Posts
On February 21 2011 04:44 iAmJeffReY wrote: I've faced this before as dual T. We both just 12 rax/13 rax 15 OC 16 supply, pull 4 scvs each, go at 3 marines with rest rallying, and O-bunker the protoss player before they can even usually have warp 1/4 the way done. All that's left is a zerg, and one of us expo, one of us tech blue flame. On bigger maps, we do that. We know there's a floating eyeball somewhere, so sacing 2/4 marines to end an entire strategy and put you ahead is rather funny. On RT is a totally different story. I do much better with people I know (obviously) than with randoms. how do you beat an absurd amount of lings with a few marines and scvs | ||
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Jakomyte
Canada7 Posts
Bigger problem is that with this strategy not working, its easy to realize that we cannot keep up with diamond level 2v2 players in a standard game. I'm still only a gold 1v1 and my partner doesn't even really play 1v1. Oh well, guess it was fun while it lasted... now we just have to learn how to actually play the game... haha... | ||
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JakeBurton
74 Posts
Additionally, TZ aggression builds reach your base with about 70% more army food before warp gates finish, denying any opportunity to warp into their base without dying yourself. So with that out of the way, how do you guys feel about marine/sling vs hellion/sling? Personally I do a lot of marine/sling stuff based on the 11 overpool 18 hatch macro build but I'm interested in the super fast army potential of hellion/sling. Also, I'm a little concerned about rolling over and dying to stalker/ling or stalker/ling/bling. | ||
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JakeBurton
74 Posts
On February 21 2011 04:54 Rotodyne wrote: how do you beat an absurd amount of lings with a few marines and scvs Two players can generally produce enough shit to kill one army. There aren't that many lings and scvs do a great job tanking. | ||
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nTwLegy
Croatia63 Posts
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JakeBurton
74 Posts
On February 21 2011 18:07 nTwLegy wrote: why people bother with team game strategys? Why bother playing Starcraft? Because it's fun. Apologies on all the posting. I am avoiding functional programming projects. | ||
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Geiko
France1942 Posts
On February 21 2011 17:50 JakeBurton wrote: Two players can generally produce enough shit to kill one army. There aren't that many lings and scvs do a great job tanking. So, out of curiosity, how on earth do people lose to this? I've personally lost to this build once, and that was the first time I'd seen it. If you leave ovies chilling on relevant ledges or just generally keep sight on high ground warp in spots, you can always see the pylon and always shoot at the pylon from the high ground. Additionally, TZ aggression builds reach your base with about 70% more army food before warp gates finish, denying any opportunity to warp into their base without dying yourself. So with that out of the way, how do you guys feel about marine/sling vs hellion/sling? Personally I do a lot of marine/sling stuff based on the 11 overpool 18 hatch macro build but I'm interested in the super fast army potential of hellion/sling. Also, I'm a little concerned about rolling over and dying to stalker/ling or stalker/ling/bling. 6 marines and 8 scvs are not going to be able to do anything. By the time they get to the protoss base, zerg has at least 16 ish speedlings and protoss can pull a couple of probes. The zealot counter attack then happens immediatly (with ~3 zealots as the push might have done some economic damage but 3 zealots is enough to beat someone making non stop rallied marines). Also, if the zerg player is any good, he will start harrassing with his first glings, making it very hard for 2 terran players to just walk out of the base and head toward yours. Concerning the "shoot the pylon theory", you'll find that as Z, it is impossible to be in range of it (roaches range 4, queens range 3 or 4 ?), as protoss, you'll have at most 2 stalkers by the time the rush comes. Try shooting down a pylon with 2 late stalkers (also, lings at your front door). As terran, marines have low range so generaly, only one or two marines will be able to shoot it. If they really want to kill it from inside their base, I just throw down another pylon right next to it and there is no way they can kill both of them before the rush happens. As for TZ early aggression, it's all about experience  Usually, an 11 pool will get us worried and we have a couple of back up builds depending on what we see. Keep in mind that 10 gate/10 pool openings make it extremely easy to crush any form of early agression. | ||
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JakeBurton
74 Posts
On February 21 2011 18:37 Geiko wrote: 6 marines and 8 scvs are not going to be able to do anything. By the time they get to the protoss base, zerg has at least 16 ish speedlings and protoss can pull a couple of probes. The zealot counter attack then happens immediatly (with ~3 zealots as the push might have done some economic damage but 3 zealots is enough to beat someone making non stop rallied marines). Also, if the zerg player is any good, he will start harrassing with his first glings, making it very hard for 2 terran players to just walk out of the base and head toward yours. Concerning the "shoot the pylon theory", you'll find that as Z, it is impossible to be in range of it (roaches range 4, queens range 3 or 4 ?), as protoss, you'll have at most 2 stalkers by the time the rush comes. Try shooting down a pylon with 2 late stalkers (also, lings at your front door). As terran, marines have low range so generaly, only one or two marines will be able to shoot it. If they really want to kill it from inside their base, I just throw down another pylon right next to it and there is no way they can kill both of them before the rush happens. As for TZ early aggression, it's all about experience Usually, an 11 pool will get us worried and we have a couple of back up builds depending on what we see. Keep in mind that 10 gate/10 pool openings make it extremely easy to crush any form of early agression.Thanks for the response. I was about to edit my post to sound like less of a stupid asshole. Edit: So after reading the thread and doing some testing I discovered that my partner's ability to shoot the pylon is largely a result of our opponents being idiots (pylons can warp in at least three zealots without being in marine range at all). I also discovered that the push that I like to do leaves our base at 4:45 - 4:50 which probably explains our general good fortune against this build. Our of curiosity, when you see an 11 pool, do you just go blind banelings? Because that's happened once or twice and has forced a macro game, though with us in the lead. Alternatively you could do a roach/stalker kind of thing in response to the 11pool but having already taken a pool by then I would be concerned about not having enough econ to possibly support enough roaches. In any case, what are your specific feelings about 2rax 11pool compared to 10pool 10gate? Stalling results in the 10pool zerg being outproduced by the 11pool zerg and I do not think warpgate/zergling combinations can win against marine/zergling until several warpgate cycles have passed. | ||
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Geiko
France1942 Posts
PZ don't have much of <5 min rushes except the obvious ones with proxy gates or just mass zealots which are absurdely easy to counter. | ||
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Pschiiit
France2 Posts
On February 21 2011 18:58 Geiko wrote: If it is TZ or ZZ, we always get banelings (we make 6 zerglings before queen to harass zerg and force him to make zerglings and not some sort of roach rush). So does this mean you do not go speedlings at all against TZ or ZZ ? Just to know if you go (1) speedlings then baneling or (2) go blind baneling to get them faster. Roaches can bit quite hard to deal with if you only have zeelot and banelings. Againt your first 6 glings he could go spine crawlers and roach warren. I have been practicing this build with my mate a bit in 2on2 diamond level and well TZ or ZZ are our hardest games. Usually if one protoss or more it is quite easy to win. Roaches are quite hard to counter if you do not apply enough early pressure to the zerg. | ||
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