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Ghosts : Using Snipe efficiently! - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Nub4ever
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada1981 Posts
September 25 2010 17:56 GMT
#21
Damn that is awesome :O Note to self: Make ghosts in TvZ I just can't seem to be good enough to click them mini bio units in the protoss army though
Dota 3hard5me
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
September 25 2010 18:01 GMT
#22
On September 26 2010 02:54 Meff wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2010 22:06 Ripzone wrote:
On September 25 2010 17:41 Meff wrote:
I believe (but I might be mistaken) that there's an even simpler method. Namely, press R, then start holding down the shift key and queue up all the snipes.


You are wrong

I have spent an hour in the unit tester map, here is what i found out:

You can hold down the snipe-key but the targeted unit will be selected instead of sniped in two cases:

- If you press Alt to show the health bars
- If you don't wait 1-2 secs until the frequency is high enough

(remember: If you are Zerg and you hold down a key in order to produce many units of the same type, the second egg is a little bit delayed (and maybe the third also), but all the further larva morph very quickly.

This is not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying to press R once, then hold down the shift key; at no point you hold down R. I know for a fact that this queues up spellcasting orders (it's handy for injecting larvae, for instance), but I do not know how it combines with existing commands in the queue.

Works perfectly, tested. 5 Ghosts vs 22 Marines 6 Marauders, they all die before any Ghosts die if you finish the queue before you get in range
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
justicewoot
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada8 Posts
September 25 2010 18:08 GMT
#23
On September 26 2010 03:01 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2010 02:54 Meff wrote:
On September 25 2010 22:06 Ripzone wrote:
On September 25 2010 17:41 Meff wrote:
I believe (but I might be mistaken) that there's an even simpler method. Namely, press R, then start holding down the shift key and queue up all the snipes.


You are wrong

I have spent an hour in the unit tester map, here is what i found out:

You can hold down the snipe-key but the targeted unit will be selected instead of sniped in two cases:

- If you press Alt to show the health bars
- If you don't wait 1-2 secs until the frequency is high enough

(remember: If you are Zerg and you hold down a key in order to produce many units of the same type, the second egg is a little bit delayed (and maybe the third also), but all the further larva morph very quickly.

This is not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying to press R once, then hold down the shift key; at no point you hold down R. I know for a fact that this queues up spellcasting orders (it's handy for injecting larvae, for instance), but I do not know how it combines with existing commands in the queue.

Works perfectly, tested. 5 Ghosts vs 22 Marines 6 Marauders, they all die before any Ghosts die if you finish the queue before you get in range


This method works, but only if your ghosts do NOT engage in a fight beforehand. So it is not applicable in all situations, but is still a decent solution as well!
TheFinalWord
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia790 Posts
September 25 2010 18:21 GMT
#24
On September 26 2010 03:08 justicewoot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2010 03:01 Shikyo wrote:
On September 26 2010 02:54 Meff wrote:
On September 25 2010 22:06 Ripzone wrote:
On September 25 2010 17:41 Meff wrote:
I believe (but I might be mistaken) that there's an even simpler method. Namely, press R, then start holding down the shift key and queue up all the snipes.


You are wrong

I have spent an hour in the unit tester map, here is what i found out:

You can hold down the snipe-key but the targeted unit will be selected instead of sniped in two cases:

- If you press Alt to show the health bars
- If you don't wait 1-2 secs until the frequency is high enough

(remember: If you are Zerg and you hold down a key in order to produce many units of the same type, the second egg is a little bit delayed (and maybe the third also), but all the further larva morph very quickly.

This is not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying to press R once, then hold down the shift key; at no point you hold down R. I know for a fact that this queues up spellcasting orders (it's handy for injecting larvae, for instance), but I do not know how it combines with existing commands in the queue.

Works perfectly, tested. 5 Ghosts vs 22 Marines 6 Marauders, they all die before any Ghosts die if you finish the queue before you get in range


This method works, but only if your ghosts do NOT engage in a fight beforehand. So it is not applicable in all situations, but is still a decent solution as well!
It also only works if the ghosts are standing still.
Kazang
Profile Joined August 2010
578 Posts
September 25 2010 22:12 GMT
#25
On September 26 2010 02:54 Meff wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2010 22:06 Ripzone wrote:
On September 25 2010 17:41 Meff wrote:
I believe (but I might be mistaken) that there's an even simpler method. Namely, press R, then start holding down the shift key and queue up all the snipes.


You are wrong

I have spent an hour in the unit tester map, here is what i found out:

You can hold down the snipe-key but the targeted unit will be selected instead of sniped in two cases:

- If you press Alt to show the health bars
- If you don't wait 1-2 secs until the frequency is high enough

(remember: If you are Zerg and you hold down a key in order to produce many units of the same type, the second egg is a little bit delayed (and maybe the third also), but all the further larva morph very quickly.

This is not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying to press R once, then hold down the shift key; at no point you hold down R. I know for a fact that this queues up spellcasting orders (it's handy for injecting larvae, for instance), but I do not know how it combines with existing commands in the queue.


Yeah this works fine, it's same principle of queueing up move or attack commands of a unit already doing something, you have to hold shift after the first command.

But hold on a second can you queue up larva inject, so that when the larva drops off and queen has enough energy it will cast it?
Because that's awesome if it is and I dunno why I didn't think of doing that before.

But great little guide and video, the insta death sniping was awesome.
gmorf33
Profile Joined September 2010
25 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-25 23:27:27
September 25 2010 23:26 GMT
#26
On September 26 2010 07:12 Kazang wrote:

Yeah this works fine, it's same principle of queueing up move or attack commands of a unit already doing something, you have to hold shift after the first command.

But hold on a second can you queue up larva inject, so that when the larva drops off and queen has enough energy it will cast it?
Because that's awesome if it is and I dunno why I didn't think of doing that before.



There was a post a few weeks ago that illustrated how you can queue up larve injects and the method he used was to measure out "laps" for his queen to run, then in the game he would shift inject and queue up a bunch of move commands using his premeasured "laps" then queue another inject, repeat. He said with his poor APM he was able to queue up about 4-5 injects in around 10 seconds. He thought high APM masters would be able to do so in 5 or less seconds.


But back to the OP. Very cool! I've never had much luck with snipe queuing and now i see why... Will be trying this out tonight :D
Panoptic
Profile Joined September 2009
United Kingdom515 Posts
September 25 2010 23:33 GMT
#27
Really good thread, the video alone is really worthwhile. I had no idea there was such a disparity in effectiveness between the different styles. I think I'm going to tell my ghosts to just holster now as standard and un-holster only if I want/need them to.
"Crom laughs at your four winds!"
Ripzone
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany12 Posts
September 26 2010 10:53 GMT
#28
On September 26 2010 03:08 justicewoot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2010 03:01 Shikyo wrote:
On September 26 2010 02:54 Meff wrote:
On September 25 2010 22:06 Ripzone wrote:
On September 25 2010 17:41 Meff wrote:
I believe (but I might be mistaken) that there's an even simpler method. Namely, press R, then start holding down the shift key and queue up all the snipes.


You are wrong

I have spent an hour in the unit tester map, here is what i found out:

You can hold down the snipe-key but the targeted unit will be selected instead of sniped in two cases:

- If you press Alt to show the health bars
- If you don't wait 1-2 secs until the frequency is high enough

(remember: If you are Zerg and you hold down a key in order to produce many units of the same type, the second egg is a little bit delayed (and maybe the third also), but all the further larva morph very quickly.

This is not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying to press R once, then hold down the shift key; at no point you hold down R. I know for a fact that this queues up spellcasting orders (it's handy for injecting larvae, for instance), but I do not know how it combines with existing commands in the queue.

Works perfectly, tested. 5 Ghosts vs 22 Marines 6 Marauders, they all die before any Ghosts die if you finish the queue before you get in range


This method works, but only if your ghosts do NOT engage in a fight beforehand. So it is not applicable in all situations, but is still a decent solution as well!


Yeah, thanks thats what i meant when i said Meff you are wrong. And then i suggested another method
Ok, you can queue after the first snipe (not after just pressing R) but the problem is, that the queue of the other ghosts is not affected.

So does everybody agree, that if your ghosts are already engaged in a battle its best (fastest and easiest) to just hold down R? This method also works in all other situations. If they are not already engaged in battle, you can move them a little bit towards it and queue up the snipes, so they will snipe after your move-command.

After discussing the technique, we could discuss more about viable strategies. Thanks to the opener, you reminded me that ghosts are such a cool unit and i definitely want to use them more.

What about Marauders+Ghosts vs Zerg?
Marauders > armored units
ghosts > air, light units

The overmins could be spent on Hellions (zoning and harassing)

so long
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
September 26 2010 12:51 GMT
#29
Why can't you just mash R? That's all I do. I go for banes, since they seem to do more damage than the bulky utra to me. R R R R R R R R R and it's just a beautiful sound of sniping.

I do it every game I get a good amount of ghosts in... still yet to snipe 20 units in a game though... lol

they're awesome vs T if you EMP their orbital and Marauder / Ghost seems to actually work in TvT somewhat decently because Marauders beat tanks and Ghosts beat air and marines and marauders...
Yaaaa... I'd say ghosts in TvT in armies just aren't as cost effective as they can be. Nuking? Yes. But putting ghosts in your army is just asking to lose those 150/150 sinkers.
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
mikell
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia352 Posts
September 26 2010 13:13 GMT
#30
this thread is pointless...
shift queueing is a very very basic thing to understand.

if you want to cast anything faster, the same goes with infested terrans etc, is to have your ghosts just move in and start sniping instantly instead of attack moving them with your army...
drone hard
daywiss
Profile Joined March 2010
United States83 Posts
September 26 2010 14:09 GMT
#31
The reason shift queuing does not work with multiple ghosts isnt because you are queuing their attacks before snipe. Its because the way blizzard has prioritized casting, the closest caster with the lowest energy (with enough to cast) will be the one to execute the command. With ghosts, the caster picked is almost always the first ghost to snipe. So basically all the other ghosts are waiting for the first ghost to run out of energy before they will snipe. Since theres a quarter/half second delay between snipes, it takes a long time.

The reason hold fire works is because then the ghosts have no other actions they can do now, so they are smart enough to know not to wait for the one ghost to run out of energy.

This problem seems more like a bug than anything, you should not have to put them in hold fire. The logic should be changed to execute the cast from closest caster with lowest energy WITHOUT a cooldown.
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-26 14:44:31
September 26 2010 14:28 GMT
#32
On September 26 2010 22:13 mikell wrote:
this thread is pointless...
shift queueing is a very very basic thing to understand.

if you want to cast anything faster, the same goes with infested terrans etc, is to have your ghosts just move in and start sniping instantly instead of attack moving them with your army...

This is wrong, try using ghosts before you say something like this. Ghosts starting to attack via proximity(Aka not attack move) will lock themselves away from snipe until their target is dead(this is to say if you are using r + shift r).

This is awesome to know, since ghosts really are AWESOME in TvZ if you can waste all the ghost energy very fast in the beginning of a fight. What's most awesome about the ghosts is that they just mix so well into their respective army mix, since they are universally awesome aslong as they have energy for snipes(and cost effective if you can get their full energy of snipes out before death).

Anyway so what I'm mostly wondering about, did I understand it correctly that you could basically a-move your entire army(ghosts included), queue up snipes with the ghosts, hit hold fire and they will start sniping? Also after snipe, are the ghosts still on hold fire?

Edit: Testing my last question it does work, but the snipes are so delayed it's not so effective. Tested also your basic method and it works really well, just a cunt if the ghosts get attacked... They really need to fix ghosts priority of attack vs shifted snipes :/. If not I could possibly see it being a question of if the ghost gets enough snipes off or not before the zerg fucks up the ghosts ai :/
Bujo
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark16 Posts
September 26 2010 15:32 GMT
#33
Very nice guide to sniping, thank you..
Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance. - Sun Tzu
KyouKyou
Profile Joined September 2010
2 Posts
September 26 2010 15:42 GMT
#34
This is something every protoss knows due to sentries. There's actually an easier method. You just use the skill once and THEN shift queue the rest of them. Nice detailed guide though.
daywiss
Profile Joined March 2010
United States83 Posts
September 26 2010 16:03 GMT
#35
kyou that doesnt work with ghosts, hence the whole point of this guide
justicewoot
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada8 Posts
September 26 2010 20:06 GMT
#36
On September 26 2010 23:09 daywiss wrote:
The reason shift queuing does not work with multiple ghosts isnt because you are queuing their attacks before snipe. Its because the way blizzard has prioritized casting, the closest caster with the lowest energy (with enough to cast) will be the one to execute the command. With ghosts, the caster picked is almost always the first ghost to snipe. So basically all the other ghosts are waiting for the first ghost to run out of energy before they will snipe. Since theres a quarter/half second delay between snipes, it takes a long time..


That isn't true. And it's easy to understand why : By using the same shift queuing method, you can build multiple buildings when you have multiple SCVs selected. By your theory, you would only be able to build one building at a time using the shift Q method when you have multiple SCVs selected, since it would only pick the closest SCV.

Really, it depends if your ghosts are engaged in the fight or not. Do they have the "ATTACK" command lined up first? That's what ultimately counts.
ckw
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1018 Posts
September 26 2010 20:12 GMT
#37
Very nice, sometimes hard to use but after some practice, it can be done efficiently.
Being weak is a choice.
EssayReader
Profile Joined May 2010
Korea (South)127 Posts
September 26 2010 21:02 GMT
#38
This thread is relevant to my interests...
Arcalious
Profile Joined March 2010
United States213 Posts
September 26 2010 21:19 GMT
#39
Wow, really great tip. My previous method was the "use the skill once, then shift queue snipe", but hold fire works better IMO. Especially like how ghosts will now flee from attacking units instead of trying to tank them. I'll have to experiment more with this method, but so far I really like it.
preacha
Profile Joined January 2010
Norway210 Posts
September 26 2010 21:35 GMT
#40
hmmm. how many ghost do you usually go late-game? do you have the gas to support them all? for me, it seems like a really gas-heavy build
dont pet a burning dog
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