|
edit : Forgot to add [G] in the topic of the thread. My bad 
The Ghost : Expensive and powerful yet fragile. Sneaky little bastards can wreak havoc with well-placed EMPs and tactical nukes. Without detection, these damn ghosts can take down a ton of workers swiftly!
But let's cut back to the main subject of this post : Snipe!
Snipe can be used in various situations. Obviously, what first comes to mind is against a Zerg, since all of their units are biological. Snipe takes down mutalisks in 3 hits, Hydralisks in 2 hits, Ultralisks in 12 shots. Snipe has also its uses against a Terran who goes bioball. You can one-shot un-upgraded marines, and 3 shot marauders. That is pretty damn efficient, considering how fast snipe can be. Against Protoss, Snipe is very useful versus templars as it can 2 shot them. It is also mildly useful vs. Zealots, but it takes 4 shots to take those guys!
So where am I going with this? Well, I've tried using this ability efficiently, mostly to counter Ultralisks in the late game, and I have found some interesting stuff about the Snipe mechanism. First, I'll explain how I used to do it before I tested it more thoroughly in the unit tester, and then I'll explain the RIGHT way to do a clean and efficient job at sniping. You will also find a video at the end of this post showing the different methods used.
HOW I USED TO DO IT :
Step 1 : Have my ghosts in a separate control group. (So far so good)
Step 2 : When encountering Zerg army with ultralisks, try to keep ghosts alive by putting them behind other troops. (Still good enough)
Step 3 : Use my control group of ghost, spam R-Click-R-Click-R-Click-R-Click on every ultralisk, 12 times per ultralisk!
Ok, looks kind of decent in theory, and that's what I was first thinking when I went ghosts against ultralisks. But then I realized in the mist of the action that I got a bit too excited about spamming R-Click-R-Click, and ended up double clicking once and selected the ultralisk instead of sniping him, making me lose focus of snipe for a second. So I thought: Well, SC2 has an awesome Queue system, let's make use of it!
Here's what I tried afterwards: (I won't repeat Step 1 and 2 as they are pretty generic)
Step 3 : Use my control group of ghost, engage with the army and Shift-R then Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click EVERY god damn ultralisks in the massive zerg army! TAKE THIS YOU BIG BAD UGLY STUFF! Or so I thought.... Then I saw a bunch of green lines showing queuing actions, and barely any sniping sounds coming out of my ghosts’ C-10 Canister Rifle! I was baffled and wondered what went wrong there…
Well, I really thought I had found a solution to my bad micro from the first scenario, but instead, my poor ghosts just stood there, attacking my targets without actually sniping them. That made me a sad panda! I had to find what went wrong because I KNEW I had spammed this mouse button so much! There's NO way those Ultralisks could've withstood all those almighty clicks!
So I went in the unit tester and finally found the PROPER way to do it, and exactly WHY that last method that SHOULD'VE worked actually failed miserably.
HERE'S HOW TO REALLY DO IT :
Step 3 : Use my control group of ghost, HIT F (for holding Fire) and H (hold position), Shift-R then Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click!
Woah! What a difference... Things actually die fast. Very very fast! This ability is actually worth using, I thought! Ghosts aren’t to be relegated to cheesy cloak tactics, EMP bots or to be sent on suicidal nuke missions. They can effectively and with very little effort be one of the main source of DPS in your army.
WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN?
Why hold fire? There's a very simple answer to that. When a ghost engages a target, he is set on "ATTACK" by default. If you then Shift-R and Click, that means you're queuing "SNIPE" after "ATTACK", and since "ATTACK" won't stop until its initial target is dead, then "SNIPE" won't happen as quickly as you thought it would've, especially if the AI is targeting a very high HP unit, like the ultralisk. And that is why Holding Fire is so important! It makes it so the AI doesn't accidently put "ATTACK" in front of "SNIPE".
So then, why do you hold position? It is simply to clear any "MOVE" command you could've given to your ghosts group beforehand, thus streamlining your Sniping action even further.
ANOTHER WAY OF DOING IT : UNLEASHING THE POWER OF SNIPING ALL AT ONCE!
Here's something very interesting I found out. It's a little trick that allows you to take someone by surprise by unleashing many snipes at once (or very quickly anyway!). The original method consists of holding fire before sniping. But what if you A-moved your ghosts, held position, Shift-R Clicked everything, and then Hold fire? Well, your ghosts’ snipe will first be “stalled” because ghosts are busy with the “ATTACK” command and they'll launch a snipe or two after their initial targets are dead. Then you hit hold fire (without Queuing it), and BOOM, every single snipe action unleashes VERY quickly.
GETTING ATTACKED WHILE HOLDING FIRE
Another particular thing about Holding Fire : Ghosts that are hit while holding fire will run away a few steps, kind of like a worker that gets hit by a military unit. If you first held position, then that won’t happen UNTIL THE FIRST SNIPE ACTION has been performed, and then your ghosts won’t be on “Hold position” anymore.
This can be a good or a bad thing, depending on the perspective. It can be good because ghosts get out of harm’s way and spread your ghosts out so they don’t get splashed by ultralisks or banelings. It can also be bad, because every time you get hit by a unit, the AI will add “MOVE” in front of “SNIPE” that the ghost had. This means it will delay the sniping ability while the ghost backs off. However, the sniping action will resume after the ghost stops.
How do you prevent the backing up while on hold fire? Well, read up one section above for the technique I explained. Since you only seem to lose your “hold position” after a snipe, this means that by delaying your sniping action a bit, your ghosts will stay in place.
OTHER APPLICATIONS TO THIS THEORY
Unfortunately, it is pretty hard to find other applications from this theory, but we can understand some stuff that goes on in a fight. One example comes to mind: Yamato Cannon. The BattleCruiser and the Thor, like the ghost, have a damaging “magical” ability while also able to deal normal damage. This means that as soon as they are engaged and you shift clicked Yamato Cannon or 250mm Cannon, your action won’t proceed until the initial “ATTACK” target is dead. Since you can really hold fire with those units, you can only be very careful while using queue attacks like that. If a unit has to be immediately killed, it is probably better to just spam the ability instead of queuing it.
Alright, that’s all for me today, hope you enjoyed my first post. 
VIDEO :
+ Show Spoiler + I'm not too sure how to include youtube stuff in the forum, but that link will do the trick for the moment
|
|
|
definetly a pew pew thread
|
Couldn't you just hold r down, then spam clicks?
|
On September 25 2010 14:26 ocdscale wrote:
Couldn't you just hold r down, then spam clicks?
You could but you run the risk of selecting the target your are sniping rather than sniping it... for some reason the server doesn't always register the "r" key being held down and if you click too fast you will actually select the target you are sniping.
|
On September 25 2010 14:49 Dustbunny wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 14:26 ocdscale wrote:
Couldn't you just hold r down, then spam clicks? You could but you run the risk of selecting the target your are sniping rather than sniping it... for some reason the server doesn't always register the "r" key being held down and if you click too fast you will actually select the target you are sniping.
Then can't you just spam r AND spam clicks?
|
i wish more people's first post were like this
informative thread with a video to back it up and detailed explanation
|
yea basically the way I used to work around it was to give them some action before the snipes to give me time to queue a bunch, like "move" to a spot, then shift+R spam. once they get to the spot I told them to move to, they unload the snipes. but your method seems more efficient I'll want to try this out 
|
I believe (but I might be mistaken) that there's an even simpler method. Namely, press R, then start holding down the shift key and queue up all the snipes.
Edit: it might be good to explain why I'm suggesting this. By pressing R (without a shift) the first time, you should be telling the game to clear up an existing queue. The subsequent shifts should all happen correctly. There could be a hitch if the game cleared up the queue only for the ghost that performed the first snipe, but I believe that it's not how it works. Somebody should test it!
|
1:30 of that youtube video has to be the most beautiful thing I've ever seen
Is there overkill on those mass snipes?
|
Very nice guide, this type of micro is applicable to other units as well. Although I don't play Terran much at all when I do I usually try and abuse ghosts as they are such a fun unit to use
|
On September 25 2010 17:41 Meff wrote:
I believe (but I might be mistaken) that there's an even simpler method. Namely, press R, then start holding down the shift key and queue up all the snipes.
You are wrong 
I have spent an hour in the unit tester map, here is what i found out:
You can hold down the snipe-key but the targeted unit will be selected instead of sniped in two cases:
- If you press Alt to show the health bars
- If you don't wait 1-2 secs until the frequency is high enough
(remember: If you are Zerg and you hold down a key in order to produce many units of the same type, the second egg is a little bit delayed (and maybe the third also), but all the further larva morph very quickly.
|
(remember: If you are Zerg and you hold down a key in order to produce many units of the same type, the second egg is a little bit delayed (and maybe the third also), but all the further larva morph very quickly.
Just an FYI which you may already know. This is due to the delay in your keyboard, or rather your keyboard software (in windows or otherwise) which waits before repeating the key. This delay can be reduced in the keyboard settings to be non-existent but that may screw up normal keyboard usage.
|
On September 25 2010 14:26 ocdscale wrote:
Couldn't you just hold r down, then spam clicks?
I've never actually tried this method. I believe it could work, but would be probably limited by my first method, where it all comes down to not overclick or you'll have an enemy unit selected instead of dead 
I'll try to test it later this weekend and see how it goes.
|
Holding down a button is simply your computer repeating a key. Same thing as when you hold down a key while typing something. If you go to keyboard options in the control panel (I'm talking about Windows, not SC2) you can set the repeat speed. This nearly completely removes any delay before the key starts repeating.
The problem described with selecting a target comes from clicking before the repeat starts. If you want to be 100% safe, wait 1 second (or 2-3 if you didn't set the delay faster) before clicking.
Enjoy.
|
baller OP ..thanks woot
MY TEST:
5 marauder, 5 Marine, 5 Ghost (1500 min, 1000 gas, 25 food)
vs
5 Ultralisk (1500 min, 1300 gas!, 30 food)
5 ghosts live (assuming full energy)
|
Awesome find, I tested this and im pretty sure there is no overkill. Unleasing the power all at once, you dont need to hold position btw. Holding down r and spam clicking is still the best way to do it in combat, but on route to a battle or something the delayed version is much more effective.
|
I'm sorry but changing your keyboard repeat and holding r is much better. The same goes for throwing infested terrans, forcefield, storms... pretty much anything.
But I like the delayed mass snipe, very cool.
That should work with infested terran as well! Gotta try it!
|
After reading this, I've been opening with Ghost FE (1rax double gas ghost academy, make 2 ghosts, CC, keep making Ghosts and then add barracks and so on) in all three games I've played since. I really like Ghosts and this really helps, for instance vs Zerg you can drop a few ghosts, scan their main, queue-snipe their drones and then run away pretty nicely, they're awesome vs T if you EMP their orbital and Marauder / Ghost seems to actually work in TvT somewhat decently because Marauders beat tanks and Ghosts beat air and marines and marauders...
I don't think you can open with them in PvP but I'm planning on just doing normal 1rax FE and get a bit delayed Ghosts. I'll definitely start using these more. Also it's hilarious when you build multiple Ghost Academies and keep nuking them.
|
On September 25 2010 22:06 Ripzone wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 17:41 Meff wrote:
I believe (but I might be mistaken) that there's an even simpler method. Namely, press R, then start holding down the shift key and queue up all the snipes.
You are wrong I have spent an hour in the unit tester map, here is what i found out: You can hold down the snipe-key but the targeted unit will be selected instead of sniped in two cases: - If you press Alt to show the health bars - If you don't wait 1-2 secs until the frequency is high enough (remember: If you are Zerg and you hold down a key in order to produce many units of the same type, the second egg is a little bit delayed (and maybe the third also), but all the further larva morph very quickly.
This is not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying to press R once, then hold down the shift key; at no point you hold down R. I know for a fact that this queues up spellcasting orders (it's handy for injecting larvae, for instance), but I do not know how it combines with existing commands in the queue.
|
Damn that is awesome :O Note to self: Make ghosts in TvZ I just can't seem to be good enough to click them mini bio units in the protoss army though
|
On September 26 2010 02:54 Meff wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 22:06 Ripzone wrote:On September 25 2010 17:41 Meff wrote:
I believe (but I might be mistaken) that there's an even simpler method. Namely, press R, then start holding down the shift key and queue up all the snipes.
You are wrong I have spent an hour in the unit tester map, here is what i found out: You can hold down the snipe-key but the targeted unit will be selected instead of sniped in two cases: - If you press Alt to show the health bars - If you don't wait 1-2 secs until the frequency is high enough (remember: If you are Zerg and you hold down a key in order to produce many units of the same type, the second egg is a little bit delayed (and maybe the third also), but all the further larva morph very quickly. This is not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying to press R once, then hold down the shift key; at no point you hold down R. I know for a fact that this queues up spellcasting orders (it's handy for injecting larvae, for instance), but I do not know how it combines with existing commands in the queue.
Works perfectly, tested. 5 Ghosts vs 22 Marines 6 Marauders, they all die before any Ghosts die if you finish the queue before you get in range
|
On September 26 2010 03:01 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 02:54 Meff wrote:On September 25 2010 22:06 Ripzone wrote:On September 25 2010 17:41 Meff wrote:
I believe (but I might be mistaken) that there's an even simpler method. Namely, press R, then start holding down the shift key and queue up all the snipes.
You are wrong I have spent an hour in the unit tester map, here is what i found out: You can hold down the snipe-key but the targeted unit will be selected instead of sniped in two cases: - If you press Alt to show the health bars - If you don't wait 1-2 secs until the frequency is high enough (remember: If you are Zerg and you hold down a key in order to produce many units of the same type, the second egg is a little bit delayed (and maybe the third also), but all the further larva morph very quickly. This is not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying to press R once, then hold down the shift key; at no point you hold down R. I know for a fact that this queues up spellcasting orders (it's handy for injecting larvae, for instance), but I do not know how it combines with existing commands in the queue. Works perfectly, tested. 5 Ghosts vs 22 Marines 6 Marauders, they all die before any Ghosts die if you finish the queue before you get in range
This method works, but only if your ghosts do NOT engage in a fight beforehand. So it is not applicable in all situations, but is still a decent solution as well!
|
On September 26 2010 03:08 justicewoot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 03:01 Shikyo wrote:On September 26 2010 02:54 Meff wrote:On September 25 2010 22:06 Ripzone wrote:On September 25 2010 17:41 Meff wrote:
I believe (but I might be mistaken) that there's an even simpler method. Namely, press R, then start holding down the shift key and queue up all the snipes.
You are wrong I have spent an hour in the unit tester map, here is what i found out: You can hold down the snipe-key but the targeted unit will be selected instead of sniped in two cases: - If you press Alt to show the health bars - If you don't wait 1-2 secs until the frequency is high enough (remember: If you are Zerg and you hold down a key in order to produce many units of the same type, the second egg is a little bit delayed (and maybe the third also), but all the further larva morph very quickly. This is not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying to press R once, then hold down the shift key; at no point you hold down R. I know for a fact that this queues up spellcasting orders (it's handy for injecting larvae, for instance), but I do not know how it combines with existing commands in the queue. Works perfectly, tested. 5 Ghosts vs 22 Marines 6 Marauders, they all die before any Ghosts die if you finish the queue before you get in range This method works, but only if your ghosts do NOT engage in a fight beforehand. So it is not applicable in all situations, but is still a decent solution as well! It also only works if the ghosts are standing still.
|
On September 26 2010 02:54 Meff wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 22:06 Ripzone wrote:On September 25 2010 17:41 Meff wrote:
I believe (but I might be mistaken) that there's an even simpler method. Namely, press R, then start holding down the shift key and queue up all the snipes.
You are wrong I have spent an hour in the unit tester map, here is what i found out: You can hold down the snipe-key but the targeted unit will be selected instead of sniped in two cases: - If you press Alt to show the health bars - If you don't wait 1-2 secs until the frequency is high enough (remember: If you are Zerg and you hold down a key in order to produce many units of the same type, the second egg is a little bit delayed (and maybe the third also), but all the further larva morph very quickly. This is not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying to press R once, then hold down the shift key; at no point you hold down R. I know for a fact that this queues up spellcasting orders (it's handy for injecting larvae, for instance), but I do not know how it combines with existing commands in the queue.
Yeah this works fine, it's same principle of queueing up move or attack commands of a unit already doing something, you have to hold shift after the first command.
But hold on a second can you queue up larva inject, so that when the larva drops off and queen has enough energy it will cast it?
Because that's awesome if it is and I dunno why I didn't think of doing that before.
But great little guide and video, the insta death sniping was awesome.
|
On September 26 2010 07:12 Kazang wrote:
Yeah this works fine, it's same principle of queueing up move or attack commands of a unit already doing something, you have to hold shift after the first command.
But hold on a second can you queue up larva inject, so that when the larva drops off and queen has enough energy it will cast it?
Because that's awesome if it is and I dunno why I didn't think of doing that before.
There was a post a few weeks ago that illustrated how you can queue up larve injects and the method he used was to measure out "laps" for his queen to run, then in the game he would shift inject and queue up a bunch of move commands using his premeasured "laps" then queue another inject, repeat. He said with his poor APM he was able to queue up about 4-5 injects in around 10 seconds. He thought high APM masters would be able to do so in 5 or less seconds.
But back to the OP. Very cool! I've never had much luck with snipe queuing and now i see why... Will be trying this out tonight :D
|
Really good thread, the video alone is really worthwhile. I had no idea there was such a disparity in effectiveness between the different styles. I think I'm going to tell my ghosts to just holster now as standard and un-holster only if I want/need them to.
|
On September 26 2010 03:08 justicewoot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 03:01 Shikyo wrote:On September 26 2010 02:54 Meff wrote:On September 25 2010 22:06 Ripzone wrote:On September 25 2010 17:41 Meff wrote:
I believe (but I might be mistaken) that there's an even simpler method. Namely, press R, then start holding down the shift key and queue up all the snipes.
You are wrong I have spent an hour in the unit tester map, here is what i found out: You can hold down the snipe-key but the targeted unit will be selected instead of sniped in two cases: - If you press Alt to show the health bars - If you don't wait 1-2 secs until the frequency is high enough (remember: If you are Zerg and you hold down a key in order to produce many units of the same type, the second egg is a little bit delayed (and maybe the third also), but all the further larva morph very quickly. This is not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying to press R once, then hold down the shift key; at no point you hold down R. I know for a fact that this queues up spellcasting orders (it's handy for injecting larvae, for instance), but I do not know how it combines with existing commands in the queue. Works perfectly, tested. 5 Ghosts vs 22 Marines 6 Marauders, they all die before any Ghosts die if you finish the queue before you get in range This method works, but only if your ghosts do NOT engage in a fight beforehand. So it is not applicable in all situations, but is still a decent solution as well!
Yeah, thanks thats what i meant when i said Meff you are wrong. And then i suggested another method
Ok, you can queue after the first snipe (not after just pressing R) but the problem is, that the queue of the other ghosts is not affected.
So does everybody agree, that if your ghosts are already engaged in a battle its best (fastest and easiest) to just hold down R? This method also works in all other situations. If they are not already engaged in battle, you can move them a little bit towards it and queue up the snipes, so they will snipe after your move-command.
After discussing the technique, we could discuss more about viable strategies. Thanks to the opener, you reminded me that ghosts are such a cool unit and i definitely want to use them more.
What about Marauders+Ghosts vs Zerg?
Marauders > armored units
ghosts > air, light units
The overmins could be spent on Hellions (zoning and harassing)
so long
|
Why can't you just mash R? That's all I do. I go for banes, since they seem to do more damage than the bulky utra to me. R R R R R R R R R and it's just a beautiful sound of sniping.
I do it every game I get a good amount of ghosts in... still yet to snipe 20 units in a game though... lol
they're awesome vs T if you EMP their orbital and Marauder / Ghost seems to actually work in TvT somewhat decently because Marauders beat tanks and Ghosts beat air and marines and marauders... Yaaaa... I'd say ghosts in TvT in armies just aren't as cost effective as they can be. Nuking? Yes. But putting ghosts in your army is just asking to lose those 150/150 sinkers.
|
this thread is pointless...
shift queueing is a very very basic thing to understand.
if you want to cast anything faster, the same goes with infested terrans etc, is to have your ghosts just move in and start sniping instantly instead of attack moving them with your army...
|
The reason shift queuing does not work with multiple ghosts isnt because you are queuing their attacks before snipe. Its because the way blizzard has prioritized casting, the closest caster with the lowest energy (with enough to cast) will be the one to execute the command. With ghosts, the caster picked is almost always the first ghost to snipe. So basically all the other ghosts are waiting for the first ghost to run out of energy before they will snipe. Since theres a quarter/half second delay between snipes, it takes a long time.
The reason hold fire works is because then the ghosts have no other actions they can do now, so they are smart enough to know not to wait for the one ghost to run out of energy.
This problem seems more like a bug than anything, you should not have to put them in hold fire. The logic should be changed to execute the cast from closest caster with lowest energy WITHOUT a cooldown.
|
On September 26 2010 22:13 mikell wrote:
this thread is pointless...
shift queueing is a very very basic thing to understand.
if you want to cast anything faster, the same goes with infested terrans etc, is to have your ghosts just move in and start sniping instantly instead of attack moving them with your army...
This is wrong, try using ghosts before you say something like this. Ghosts starting to attack via proximity(Aka not attack move) will lock themselves away from snipe until their target is dead(this is to say if you are using r + shift r).
This is awesome to know, since ghosts really are AWESOME in TvZ if you can waste all the ghost energy very fast in the beginning of a fight. What's most awesome about the ghosts is that they just mix so well into their respective army mix, since they are universally awesome aslong as they have energy for snipes(and cost effective if you can get their full energy of snipes out before death).
Anyway so what I'm mostly wondering about, did I understand it correctly that you could basically a-move your entire army(ghosts included), queue up snipes with the ghosts, hit hold fire and they will start sniping? Also after snipe, are the ghosts still on hold fire?
Edit: Testing my last question it does work, but the snipes are so delayed it's not so effective. Tested also your basic method and it works really well, just a cunt if the ghosts get attacked... They really need to fix ghosts priority of attack vs shifted snipes :/. If not I could possibly see it being a question of if the ghost gets enough snipes off or not before the zerg fucks up the ghosts ai :/
|
Very nice guide to sniping, thank you..
|
This is something every protoss knows due to sentries. There's actually an easier method. You just use the skill once and THEN shift queue the rest of them. Nice detailed guide though.
|
kyou that doesnt work with ghosts, hence the whole point of this guide
|
On September 26 2010 23:09 daywiss wrote:
The reason shift queuing does not work with multiple ghosts isnt because you are queuing their attacks before snipe. Its because the way blizzard has prioritized casting, the closest caster with the lowest energy (with enough to cast) will be the one to execute the command. With ghosts, the caster picked is almost always the first ghost to snipe. So basically all the other ghosts are waiting for the first ghost to run out of energy before they will snipe. Since theres a quarter/half second delay between snipes, it takes a long time..
That isn't true. And it's easy to understand why : By using the same shift queuing method, you can build multiple buildings when you have multiple SCVs selected. By your theory, you would only be able to build one building at a time using the shift Q method when you have multiple SCVs selected, since it would only pick the closest SCV.
Really, it depends if your ghosts are engaged in the fight or not. Do they have the "ATTACK" command lined up first? That's what ultimately counts.
|
Very nice, sometimes hard to use but after some practice, it can be done efficiently.
|
This thread is relevant to my interests...
|
Wow, really great tip. My previous method was the "use the skill once, then shift queue snipe", but hold fire works better IMO. Especially like how ghosts will now flee from attacking units instead of trying to tank them. I'll have to experiment more with this method, but so far I really like it.
|
hmmm. how many ghost do you usually go late-game? do you have the gas to support them all? for me, it seems like a really gas-heavy build
|
It really depends on what build you're doing obviously. But whenever I do a fast expand mass MM build, I always have TONS of gas to spend, which makes ghosts pretty effective.
|
good find, can also be used against T bio balls to rape big number of rines
|
On September 25 2010 14:26 ocdscale wrote:
Couldn't you just hold r down, then spam clicks?
So yeah, I've struggled with infested terrans for so long and that makes it so easy
ty ty ty
This seems like the easiest way since it's an immediate command that overrides anything else that could be happening for whatever reason.
|
When you press R THEN hold shift it works if your ghost is far enough away for you to start queueing the additional snipes. once you press R and click a unit he'll instantly snipe said unit and immediately go into attack mode, so when you hold shift at that point you are queueing AFTER his attack is finished, which is why hold position is necissery, or you can shift click near where he is standing to have the ghosts walk back and forth for a few moments before queueing up the snipe que. Gotta have some good micro for it but it's definitely worth it.
This thread was a little older but I got the vibe there was no clear explanation so there you have it.
|
as a 2100 Diamond Terran.. I think this is a great topic and will evolve the much needed late game of Terran.
|
Thanks a lot. Sniping with a bunch of ghosts is a heck of a lot of fun, but all the nonsense that happens - selecting the unit that you're targeting by accident, or having your ghosts plan out their snipes for some time after the battle is over, or just not clicking fast enough can be really obnoxious. I never even considered the 'hold fire' button, which while pretty obvious in retrospect is still a really good find.
|
+1 awesome find, though ultras with 500 hp is still.. just disgusting.
I wish ghosts had only cost 75 gas (like back in BW), 150 gas or a squishy bio unit is so... iicky.
|
one ghost or 6 marines with no gas spent? I'll go for the marines unless I need EMP. Honestly i never have so much trouble with ultralist that I need to think of a new way to combat them. Also when ultralisk hit it's usally late game and all of a sudden the zerg player has 6-10 ultras. You would need to really prepare well to have the ghosts out with lots of energy for that.
I think they might be better in TvT early game to one shot marines.
|
On September 25 2010 14:58 JinRho wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 14:49 Dustbunny wrote:On September 25 2010 14:26 ocdscale wrote:
Couldn't you just hold r down, then spam clicks? You could but you run the risk of selecting the target your are sniping rather than sniping it... for some reason the server doesn't always register the "r" key being held down and if you click too fast you will actually select the target you are sniping. Then can't you just spam r AND spam clicks?
No, I've found this is WAY slower than it should be and not nearly as efficient
|
On May 18 2011 01:22 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 14:58 JinRho wrote:On September 25 2010 14:49 Dustbunny wrote:On September 25 2010 14:26 ocdscale wrote:
Couldn't you just hold r down, then spam clicks? You could but you run the risk of selecting the target your are sniping rather than sniping it... for some reason the server doesn't always register the "r" key being held down and if you click too fast you will actually select the target you are sniping. Then can't you just spam r AND spam clicks? No, I've found this is WAY slower than it should be and not nearly as efficient
Increasing the keyboard repeat rate should fix that. Someone made a guide a little bit ago about the same thing with sentries.
|
Epic necro.
On a side note, this thread is awesome and with the recent ghost cost changes, I'm gonna certainly try more ghost usage in TvZ.
|
As long as you reduced the repetitive keyboard strokes in your "Computer Settings" .. "HOLDING R" and then just clicking is the most efficent way.
|
Shift-R CLICK CLICK CLICK
Does that mean Hold shift, press R, let go of shift?
|
ANOTHER WAY OF DOING IT : UNLEASHING THE POWER OF SNIPING ALL AT ONCE! + Show Spoiler +Here's something very interesting I found out. It's a little trick that allows you to take someone by surprise by unleashing many snipes at once (or very quickly anyway!). The original method consists of holding fire before sniping. But what if you A-moved your ghosts, held position, Shift-R Clicked everything, and then Hold fire? Well, your ghosts’ snipe will first be “stalled” because ghosts are busy with the “ATTACK” command and they'll launch a snipe or two after their initial targets are dead. Then you hit hold fire (without Queuing it), and BOOM, every single snipe action unleashes VERY quickly.
Old thread, but I wonder... could this be used to launch 2+ nukes, at different locations, simultaneously? I think it might result in a few normal attacks before the nuke, which would give away the ghost positioning on the minimap. But if I could figure out a way to make it work without that, it could be sweet.
Hearing only one "nuclear launch detected," people probably stop looking once they find the first red dot.
|
I don't think you can open with them in PvP but I'm planning on just doing normal 1rax FE and get a bit delayed Ghosts
Good luck getting ghosts in PvP...
But otherwise fantastic thread! explains exactly how to do it. I once tried the ghost snipe and I failed just as the writer originally did and basically just gave up.
Now it becomes viable again, thanks a ton.
|
I still am not convinced by the use of Ghosts in TvZ. Even thought now they cost 200/100, they're still considered cheaper than tanks, or even slightly more expensive. having about 5-6 ghosts in your army meants you'll have 5-6 less tanks which makes a huge difference. besides, ghosts' emp aren't as expective as in TvP because all they're draining is mana, no hp, and infestors are way too fat to get an effective emp out of like HT's. Basically they can be useful against Ultra, but they are a lot less flexible when zerg decides to switch tech. I know this thread isn't about the efficiency of ghosts, but rather a guide to using snipe more effectively, but I'm just wondering how viable this would be
|
Ghosts are not good vs ultras. They are however awesome vs broodlords.
|
actually yeah, a lot of mech tvz players have started to inconrporate them to their play a lot because of big snipe range vs BLs, plus they hit ground , while vikings will be useless after killing BLs, not to mention opponent might counter them with corruptors
|
On May 18 2011 01:37 Coriolis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 01:22 zmansman17 wrote:On September 25 2010 14:58 JinRho wrote:On September 25 2010 14:49 Dustbunny wrote:On September 25 2010 14:26 ocdscale wrote:
Couldn't you just hold r down, then spam clicks? You could but you run the risk of selecting the target your are sniping rather than sniping it... for some reason the server doesn't always register the "r" key being held down and if you click too fast you will actually select the target you are sniping. Then can't you just spam r AND spam clicks? No, I've found this is WAY slower than it should be and not nearly as efficient Increasing the keyboard repeat rate should fix that. Someone made a guide a little bit ago about the same thing with sentries.
Yea, with maxed keyboard repeat rate/minimal start time, I can hold R and click as fast as I can without mistargeting. Tested this in the unit tester against every snipable unit, works super well, and definitely much better then any hold fire/position or shift method.
One tip is to know how many snipes you need so you can precede to the next target without waiting for the first to die. (i.e. 6 per brood etc)
|
This could be useful against infestors as well. if you scout infestors, I wonder how effective it could be to run a bunch of stealthed ghosts in to flank infestors with a bunch of sniping.
I could see this working well with mass marauder/medivac scenarios as well.
|
Will definitely use this in my ghost play from now on, good post of trial and errors in the OP.
|
Oh this was an old thread? The hold fire and position thing sounds very awesome, thanks for sharing!
|
On May 18 2011 04:48 AveSharia wrote:Show nested quote +ANOTHER WAY OF DOING IT : UNLEASHING THE POWER OF SNIPING ALL AT ONCE! + Show Spoiler +Here's something very interesting I found out. It's a little trick that allows you to take someone by surprise by unleashing many snipes at once (or very quickly anyway!). The original method consists of holding fire before sniping. But what if you A-moved your ghosts, held position, Shift-R Clicked everything, and then Hold fire? Well, your ghosts’ snipe will first be “stalled” because ghosts are busy with the “ATTACK” command and they'll launch a snipe or two after their initial targets are dead. Then you hit hold fire (without Queuing it), and BOOM, every single snipe action unleashes VERY quickly. Old thread, but I wonder... could this be used to launch 2+ nukes, at different locations, simultaneously? I think it might result in a few normal attacks before the nuke, which would give away the ghost positioning on the minimap. But if I could figure out a way to make it work without that, it could be sweet. Hearing only one "nuclear launch detected," people probably stop looking once they find the first red dot.
Tested with three nukes today, and this only half works. You can use it to launch more than one nuke simultaneously, even without pinging the enemy's minimap (instead of attack move, focus fire another friendly ghost), but the enemy will still hear multiple alerts, one after the other.
It's actually an interesting point that the alerts for "nuclear launch detected" stack. I never noticed that before.
|
I think Holding R then spamming left click is the most efficient way to snipe... simply because there's no prior requirement and it's accessible anytime (i.e. when you unexpectedly meet your enemy's army while moving out)
There is a catch ( There's always a catch ) though. Holding R and spam clicking requires you to wait for about .4 seconds before you can safely click without deselecting your ghosts. There is a way to reduce this by going to control panel -> keyboard -> speed tab -> and setting the repeat delay to short which makes the delay about .225 seconds. you can still get deselected by clicking too fast though so watch out. but as long as your not clicking like a retard it shouldn't deselect. a bit of practice and it will feel natural.
|
I'll add a little bit that can be usefule in some situations. This video demonstrates the use of HT feedback by clicking on a minimap.
The thing is it also works with snipe and it is somewhat smart about picking targets - in a group of zealots and HT it will snip HT.
Original source: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2483689061
|
thread deserves a bump, not only for OP but for last comment. korean secrets shall be revealed!
|
Russian Federation4295 Posts
I know better method to use snipe ability (and most abilities).
Just hold ability and click.
|
On May 20 2011 07:51 SifySify wrote:I'll add a little bit that can be usefule in some situations. This video demonstrates the use of HT feedback by clicking on a minimap. The thing is it also works with snipe and it is somewhat smart about picking targets - in a group of zealots and HT it will snip HT. Original source: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2483689061
I have always wondered how you feedback ghost in the middle of a huge MMM ball, I guess this is how you do it.. It almost seems a little gamebreaking if it is true
Edit: after reading the blizzard thread it seems like it is not as useful as it seems. And it is the same mechanism that allows injects, chronoboost etc. on the minimap.
|
actually i just tried it in unit test map and i wasnt able to do it, has it been fixed?
edit: wrong test map
|
You need to actually click on the unit on the minimap. It's no different from casting spawn larva with the minimap except that hatcheries are a lot larger than ghosts.
The reason it looks so powerful in the video is because the map is tiny.
|
On June 19 2011 13:51 CaptPanda wrote:
You need to actually click on the unit on the minimap. It's no different from casting spawn larva with the minimap except that hatcheries are a lot larger than ghosts.
The reason it looks so powerful in the video is because the map is tiny.
I tried it in the correct test map, it looked rly strong to me. at least in a usual MMMG vs deathball it looks as if it really works, u just have to hit the "ball", not the specific unit in the ball in the minimap.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
