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Ghosts : Using Snipe efficiently!

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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justicewoot
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada8 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-25 05:06:17
September 25 2010 04:53 GMT
#1
edit : Forgot to add [G] in the topic of the thread. My bad

The Ghost : Expensive and powerful yet fragile. Sneaky little bastards can wreak havoc with well-placed EMPs and tactical nukes. Without detection, these damn ghosts can take down a ton of workers swiftly!

But let's cut back to the main subject of this post : Snipe!

Snipe can be used in various situations. Obviously, what first comes to mind is against a Zerg, since all of their units are biological. Snipe takes down mutalisks in 3 hits, Hydralisks in 2 hits, Ultralisks in 12 shots. Snipe has also its uses against a Terran who goes bioball. You can one-shot un-upgraded marines, and 3 shot marauders. That is pretty damn efficient, considering how fast snipe can be. Against Protoss, Snipe is very useful versus templars as it can 2 shot them. It is also mildly useful vs. Zealots, but it takes 4 shots to take those guys!

So where am I going with this? Well, I've tried using this ability efficiently, mostly to counter Ultralisks in the late game, and I have found some interesting stuff about the Snipe mechanism. First, I'll explain how I used to do it before I tested it more thoroughly in the unit tester, and then I'll explain the RIGHT way to do a clean and efficient job at sniping. You will also find a video at the end of this post showing the different methods used.

HOW I USED TO DO IT :

Step 1 : Have my ghosts in a separate control group. (So far so good)
Step 2 : When encountering Zerg army with ultralisks, try to keep ghosts alive by putting them behind other troops. (Still good enough)
Step 3 : Use my control group of ghost, spam R-Click-R-Click-R-Click-R-Click on every ultralisk, 12 times per ultralisk!

Ok, looks kind of decent in theory, and that's what I was first thinking when I went ghosts against ultralisks. But then I realized in the mist of the action that I got a bit too excited about spamming R-Click-R-Click, and ended up double clicking once and selected the ultralisk instead of sniping him, making me lose focus of snipe for a second. So I thought: Well, SC2 has an awesome Queue system, let's make use of it!

Here's what I tried afterwards: (I won't repeat Step 1 and 2 as they are pretty generic)

Step 3 : Use my control group of ghost, engage with the army and Shift-R then Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click EVERY god damn ultralisks in the massive zerg army! TAKE THIS YOU BIG BAD UGLY STUFF! Or so I thought.... Then I saw a bunch of green lines showing queuing actions, and barely any sniping sounds coming out of my ghosts’ C-10 Canister Rifle! I was baffled and wondered what went wrong there…

Well, I really thought I had found a solution to my bad micro from the first scenario, but instead, my poor ghosts just stood there, attacking my targets without actually sniping them. That made me a sad panda! I had to find what went wrong because I KNEW I had spammed this mouse button so much! There's NO way those Ultralisks could've withstood all those almighty clicks!

So I went in the unit tester and finally found the PROPER way to do it, and exactly WHY that last method that SHOULD'VE worked actually failed miserably.

HERE'S HOW TO REALLY DO IT :

Step 3 : Use my control group of ghost, HIT F (for holding Fire) and H (hold position), Shift-R then Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click-Click!
Woah! What a difference... Things actually die fast. Very very fast! This ability is actually worth using, I thought! Ghosts aren’t to be relegated to cheesy cloak tactics, EMP bots or to be sent on suicidal nuke missions. They can effectively and with very little effort be one of the main source of DPS in your army.

WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN?

Why hold fire? There's a very simple answer to that. When a ghost engages a target, he is set on "ATTACK" by default. If you then Shift-R and Click, that means you're queuing "SNIPE" after "ATTACK", and since "ATTACK" won't stop until its initial target is dead, then "SNIPE" won't happen as quickly as you thought it would've, especially if the AI is targeting a very high HP unit, like the ultralisk. And that is why Holding Fire is so important! It makes it so the AI doesn't accidently put "ATTACK" in front of "SNIPE".
So then, why do you hold position? It is simply to clear any "MOVE" command you could've given to your ghosts group beforehand, thus streamlining your Sniping action even further.

ANOTHER WAY OF DOING IT : UNLEASHING THE POWER OF SNIPING ALL AT ONCE!


Here's something very interesting I found out. It's a little trick that allows you to take someone by surprise by unleashing many snipes at once (or very quickly anyway!). The original method consists of holding fire before sniping. But what if you A-moved your ghosts, held position, Shift-R Clicked everything, and then Hold fire? Well, your ghosts’ snipe will first be “stalled” because ghosts are busy with the “ATTACK” command and they'll launch a snipe or two after their initial targets are dead. Then you hit hold fire (without Queuing it), and BOOM, every single snipe action unleashes VERY quickly.

GETTING ATTACKED WHILE HOLDING FIRE

Another particular thing about Holding Fire : Ghosts that are hit while holding fire will run away a few steps, kind of like a worker that gets hit by a military unit. If you first held position, then that won’t happen UNTIL THE FIRST SNIPE ACTION has been performed, and then your ghosts won’t be on “Hold position” anymore.

This can be a good or a bad thing, depending on the perspective. It can be good because ghosts get out of harm’s way and spread your ghosts out so they don’t get splashed by ultralisks or banelings. It can also be bad, because every time you get hit by a unit, the AI will add “MOVE” in front of “SNIPE” that the ghost had. This means it will delay the sniping ability while the ghost backs off. However, the sniping action will resume after the ghost stops.
How do you prevent the backing up while on hold fire? Well, read up one section above for the technique I explained. Since you only seem to lose your “hold position” after a snipe, this means that by delaying your sniping action a bit, your ghosts will stay in place.

OTHER APPLICATIONS TO THIS THEORY

Unfortunately, it is pretty hard to find other applications from this theory, but we can understand some stuff that goes on in a fight. One example comes to mind: Yamato Cannon. The BattleCruiser and the Thor, like the ghost, have a damaging “magical” ability while also able to deal normal damage. This means that as soon as they are engaged and you shift clicked Yamato Cannon or 250mm Cannon, your action won’t proceed until the initial “ATTACK” target is dead. Since you can really hold fire with those units, you can only be very careful while using queue attacks like that. If a unit has to be immediately killed, it is probably better to just spam the ability instead of queuing it.

Alright, that’s all for me today, hope you enjoyed my first post.

VIDEO :
+ Show Spoiler +

I'm not too sure how to include youtube stuff in the forum, but that link will do the trick for the moment
ktimekiller
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States690 Posts
September 25 2010 05:05 GMT
#2
Very awesome thread
Leeoku
Profile Joined May 2010
1617 Posts
September 25 2010 05:09 GMT
#3
definetly a pew pew thread
ocdscale
Profile Joined August 2010
United States61 Posts
September 25 2010 05:26 GMT
#4
Couldn't you just hold r down, then spam clicks?
Dustbunny
Profile Joined May 2010
47 Posts
September 25 2010 05:49 GMT
#5
On September 25 2010 14:26 ocdscale wrote:
Couldn't you just hold r down, then spam clicks?


You could but you run the risk of selecting the target your are sniping rather than sniping it... for some reason the server doesn't always register the "r" key being held down and if you click too fast you will actually select the target you are sniping.
JinRho
Profile Joined June 2010
United States38 Posts
September 25 2010 05:58 GMT
#6
On September 25 2010 14:49 Dustbunny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2010 14:26 ocdscale wrote:
Couldn't you just hold r down, then spam clicks?


You could but you run the risk of selecting the target your are sniping rather than sniping it... for some reason the server doesn't always register the "r" key being held down and if you click too fast you will actually select the target you are sniping.



Then can't you just spam r AND spam clicks?
awu25
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2003 Posts
September 25 2010 06:03 GMT
#7
i wish more people's first post were like this
informative thread with a video to back it up and detailed explanation
Mios
Profile Joined April 2010
United States686 Posts
September 25 2010 08:33 GMT
#8
yea basically the way I used to work around it was to give them some action before the snipes to give me time to queue a bunch, like "move" to a spot, then shift+R spam. once they get to the spot I told them to move to, they unload the snipes. but your method seems more efficient I'll want to try this out
no LAN and intercontinental bnet = T_T
Meff
Profile Joined June 2010
Italy287 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-25 08:43:59
September 25 2010 08:41 GMT
#9
I believe (but I might be mistaken) that there's an even simpler method. Namely, press R, then start holding down the shift key and queue up all the snipes.

Edit: it might be good to explain why I'm suggesting this. By pressing R (without a shift) the first time, you should be telling the game to clear up an existing queue. The subsequent shifts should all happen correctly. There could be a hitch if the game cleared up the queue only for the ghost that performed the first snipe, but I believe that it's not how it works. Somebody should test it!
Trump
Profile Joined April 2010
United States350 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-25 08:47:13
September 25 2010 08:43 GMT
#10
1:30 of that youtube video has to be the most beautiful thing I've ever seen

Is there overkill on those mass snipes?
Friendship is Magic! <3
Swwww
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Switzerland812 Posts
September 25 2010 09:39 GMT
#11
Very nice guide, this type of micro is applicable to other units as well. Although I don't play Terran much at all when I do I usually try and abuse ghosts as they are such a fun unit to use
"What is this TeamSupportGroup?" - mahnini.
Ripzone
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany12 Posts
September 25 2010 13:06 GMT
#12
On September 25 2010 17:41 Meff wrote:
I believe (but I might be mistaken) that there's an even simpler method. Namely, press R, then start holding down the shift key and queue up all the snipes.


You are wrong

I have spent an hour in the unit tester map, here is what i found out:

You can hold down the snipe-key but the targeted unit will be selected instead of sniped in two cases:

- If you press Alt to show the health bars
- If you don't wait 1-2 secs until the frequency is high enough

(remember: If you are Zerg and you hold down a key in order to produce many units of the same type, the second egg is a little bit delayed (and maybe the third also), but all the further larva morph very quickly.
Kier
Profile Joined September 2010
Switzerland57 Posts
September 25 2010 13:13 GMT
#13

(remember: If you are Zerg and you hold down a key in order to produce many units of the same type, the second egg is a little bit delayed (and maybe the third also), but all the further larva morph very quickly.


Just an FYI which you may already know. This is due to the delay in your keyboard, or rather your keyboard software (in windows or otherwise) which waits before repeating the key. This delay can be reduced in the keyboard settings to be non-existent but that may screw up normal keyboard usage.
justicewoot
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada8 Posts
September 25 2010 13:41 GMT
#14
On September 25 2010 14:26 ocdscale wrote:
Couldn't you just hold r down, then spam clicks?


I've never actually tried this method. I believe it could work, but would be probably limited by my first method, where it all comes down to not overclick or you'll have an enemy unit selected instead of dead

I'll try to test it later this weekend and see how it goes.
Glacius0
Profile Joined July 2010
Netherlands66 Posts
September 25 2010 14:03 GMT
#15
Holding down a button is simply your computer repeating a key. Same thing as when you hold down a key while typing something. If you go to keyboard options in the control panel (I'm talking about Windows, not SC2) you can set the repeat speed. This nearly completely removes any delay before the key starts repeating.

The problem described with selecting a target comes from clicking before the repeat starts. If you want to be 100% safe, wait 1 second (or 2-3 if you didn't set the delay faster) before clicking.

Enjoy.
Redunzl
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
862 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-25 15:34:32
September 25 2010 15:18 GMT
#16
baller OP ..thanks woot

MY TEST:

5 marauder, 5 Marine, 5 Ghost (1500 min, 1000 gas, 25 food)
vs
5 Ultralisk (1500 min, 1300 gas!, 30 food)

5 ghosts live (assuming full energy)
TheFinalWord
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia790 Posts
September 25 2010 15:49 GMT
#17
Awesome find, I tested this and im pretty sure there is no overkill. Unleasing the power all at once, you dont need to hold position btw. Holding down r and spam clicking is still the best way to do it in combat, but on route to a battle or something the delayed version is much more effective.
Dudemeister
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden314 Posts
September 25 2010 17:42 GMT
#18
I'm sorry but changing your keyboard repeat and holding r is much better. The same goes for throwing infested terrans, forcefield, storms... pretty much anything.
But I like the delayed mass snipe, very cool.
That should work with infested terran as well! Gotta try it!
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
September 25 2010 17:47 GMT
#19
After reading this, I've been opening with Ghost FE (1rax double gas ghost academy, make 2 ghosts, CC, keep making Ghosts and then add barracks and so on) in all three games I've played since. I really like Ghosts and this really helps, for instance vs Zerg you can drop a few ghosts, scan their main, queue-snipe their drones and then run away pretty nicely, they're awesome vs T if you EMP their orbital and Marauder / Ghost seems to actually work in TvT somewhat decently because Marauders beat tanks and Ghosts beat air and marines and marauders...

I don't think you can open with them in PvP but I'm planning on just doing normal 1rax FE and get a bit delayed Ghosts. I'll definitely start using these more. Also it's hilarious when you build multiple Ghost Academies and keep nuking them.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Meff
Profile Joined June 2010
Italy287 Posts
September 25 2010 17:54 GMT
#20
On September 25 2010 22:06 Ripzone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2010 17:41 Meff wrote:
I believe (but I might be mistaken) that there's an even simpler method. Namely, press R, then start holding down the shift key and queue up all the snipes.


You are wrong

I have spent an hour in the unit tester map, here is what i found out:

You can hold down the snipe-key but the targeted unit will be selected instead of sniped in two cases:

- If you press Alt to show the health bars
- If you don't wait 1-2 secs until the frequency is high enough

(remember: If you are Zerg and you hold down a key in order to produce many units of the same type, the second egg is a little bit delayed (and maybe the third also), but all the further larva morph very quickly.

This is not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying to press R once, then hold down the shift key; at no point you hold down R. I know for a fact that this queues up spellcasting orders (it's handy for injecting larvae, for instance), but I do not know how it combines with existing commands in the queue.
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