[D] Contaminate "build" in ZvZ - Page 3

archwaykitten

90 Posts

September 11 2010 09:37 GMT

#41

You actually need at least 5 overseers to permanently shut down a hatchery. I think four can technically keep a building locked down forever, but you have to cast corruption the instant the previous corruption wears off. If you consistently cast slightly early with four, eventually the corruption cycle will time out before your overseers have regenerated enough mana to cast again. If you cast even a split second late, then the building you're trying to contaminate will obviously get a split second of production in. Normally a split second of production wouldn't matter very much, but if a hatchery sits uncontaminated for any time at all a larva will spawn. If that larva is morphed into either a mutalisk or a hydralisk, your overseers will not be able to survive much longer unless they retreat.

ZerG~LegenD

Sweden1179 Posts

September 13 2010 09:56 GMT

#42

I've been playing around with a Roach opening followed by a rush to 3 Overseers at the ladder, rating around 1200-1300.

The build is rather useless vs a 15 Hatch opening, and I think you're in a rather uncomfortable situation vs 1 Hatch Muta rush too - unless he opened Banelings first. However, vs everything else it's pretty sweet.

So far I'm 6-2 with the build, here are all the reps:
SieGe vs DalaiLameR (W)
SieGe vs Revolver (W)
SieGe vs mTwFallY (L)
SieGe vs FoRaWhiteGuy (L)
SieGe vs EnTi (W)
SieGe vs BuNNy (W)
SieGe vs Zergius (W)
SieGe vs Draakki (W)

After losing twice to the Muta rush I decided to change my follow up. The new one is undefeated so far, but it's rather gimmicky so it won't hold in the long run. You could probably transition straight into a common Hydra/Infestor 2 base build on some maps though.

Contamine opens up a rather huge timing window vs some builds, where you can simply kill them straight off. Other times it prevents Drone production in situations where both players would prefer to just sit still and macro up. It also provides perfect intellligence. The huge downside is that you have to give up map control vs Mutalisk builds and your own economy isn't the greatest either.

blackodd

Sweden451 Posts

September 13 2010 12:02 GMT

#43

You can heal overseer with queen if things gets dirty

Noxie

United States2227 Posts

September 13 2010 14:18 GMT

#44

This is a pretty interesting topic..From the replays it def looks promising.. not sure if a build like this will actually catch on.

I think its plausible

CurLy[]

United States759 Posts

September 13 2010 16:54 GMT

#45

That was a great game, very interesting early harass, sounds like the commentator got it wrong about contaminate?

Andre112

Canada52 Posts

September 13 2010 21:18 GMT

#46

Does it stop building from morphing? Say a spire being build.
Lets say after some opening battles and you both get to lair at about the same time and plant down spire at about same time.
While spire is being built, get 2 overseers to contaminate the morphing spire and the lair.
The problem is that overseer doesn't have enough energy right way.
The timing might not be fast enough?

mcbrite

Germany229 Posts

September 13 2010 22:54 GMT

#47

and how would this EVER work against anybody but the AI??? For more then say 1 or 2 cycles???

Having said this: The spell is definitely underused... I'd love to see it more often...

PrinceXizor

United States17713 Posts

September 13 2010 22:58 GMT

#48

So there is a bug (or maybe intended) use with contaminate, i had my hatch contaminated today with spawn larva 50% done, and when the contaminate ended, my spawn larva was at 0% and had to start over, and another time he contaminated me just as the timer ended but in that window before the larva appear, and i got those larva stolen from me, they never spawned, even after it ended.

deusemx

United States8 Posts

September 15 2010 06:05 GMT

#49

This is me using a triple overseer opening in a ZvZ Diamond 500 point ranked game.

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=149091

He goes zergling baneling rush.

ZomgTossRush

United States1041 Posts

September 15 2010 06:34 GMT

#50

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Contaminate

sad

ZomgTossRush

United States1041 Posts

September 15 2010 06:45 GMT

#51

This should be entitlted "Contaminate forces restart on spawning larvae." because thats all you have proven.

Maybe for a mid-late game tactic. But I am not sure how i can survive any god bling play having 0 roaches and 0 mutas untill Lair +300 gas.

deusemx

United States8 Posts

September 15 2010 08:53 GMT

#52

On September 15 2010 15:45 zomgtossrush wrote:
This should be entitlted "Contaminate forces restart on spawning larvae." because thats all you have proven.

Maybe for a mid-late game tactic. But I am not sure how i can survive any god bling play having 0 roaches and 0 mutas untill Lair +300 gas.

In my replay I got 2 gas early but once I had 300 gas for the overseers I put them all back on minerals and built some spine crawlers.

Acritter

Syria7637 Posts

September 15 2010 10:20 GMT

#53

For this to be effective you're going to need to take the time that their production is screwed to gain some huge, huge advantage over them. The most obvious solution is Zergling spam, but that can be weak to a small number of Banelings. Roaches work in a similar vein, but are more expensive and tech-dependent. You don't have to try and end the game and instead expand once or even twice, but you'll still have to defend that against your opponent's superior army (since you've been focusing on those Overseers). Tech would work similarly, but that would again be tougher because of the 300 sunk in the Overseers. This looks like it has potential in a very precise timing push, but outside of that, not much..

ZomgTossRush

United States1041 Posts

September 15 2010 10:26 GMT

#54

On September 15 2010 17:53 deusemx wrote:

Show nested quote +

In my replay I got 2 gas early but once I had 300 gas for the overseers I put them all back on minerals and built some spine crawlers.

This is how I read your replay.

I get to 2 gas early, so i have hardly any lings to defend eary ling pressure, then after i got 300 gas, i waste more resources not getting lings or blings, then i put drones on minerals, since i dont have any blings or roaches, and then get spine crawlers, to defend the 2 drones i have left from the opponents lings, blings and roaches.

I am not trying to troll or anything, but you cant suggest a theory and have people take you seriously when you play a medium AI. Try this vs a few diamond level z's and see how easy it is to mine 300 gas without getting roflstomped, then post THOSE replays.

risk.nuke

Sweden2825 Posts

September 15 2010 11:33 GMT

#55

On September 14 2010 07:54 mcbrite wrote:
and how would this EVER work against anybody but the AI??? For more then say 1 or 2 cycles???

Having said this: The spell is definitely underused... I'd love to see it more often...

read the thread before you post.

Rudiment

United States174 Posts

September 15 2010 13:43 GMT

#56

Doesn't contaminate 'pause' a making building? Also if you contaminate a tech building (like a spire), doesn't that mean you can't produce units allowed by it(mutas)? That could also get a good edge in a ling/bling/muta mirror.

OreoBoi

Canada1639 Posts

September 15 2010 14:00 GMT

#57

I really don't see how you can use up that 300 gas and not die.
So you spent gas on, zerglings speed, lair, and 3 overseers. You have 6 drones in gas, so unless you are pumping drones, you won't have enough minerals. How can you defend banelings with this build?

onmach

United States1241 Posts

September 15 2010 14:22 GMT

#58

The only major problem with this is nothing really prevents your opponent from doing it back to you. It is not like he's going to be able to use his resources for anything else.

Logo

United States7542 Posts

September 15 2010 14:30 GMT

#59

For contaminate ZvZ questions, I've already done the research! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=126855

My understand is that it does not reset spawn larva timer if you revomit on the hatchery. What happens is the larva 'spawns' but is stuck in the hatchery due to contaminate. This lets the queen revomit and create 4 more larva that are stuck in the hatchery. When contaminate ends all of the larva explode out of the hatchery, but maybe the OP has tested it more thoroughly than I have.

The time when I'd use this really is when your opponent goes roaches. You can go overseer+eco->roaches to abuse his lack of AA.

kcdc

United States2311 Posts

September 15 2010 15:15 GMT

#60

The big problem I see here is that you're investing 300/300 for 3 overseers in hopes of shutting down a hatchery. Building a second hatchery costs 350/0. Even if you were able to perfectly shut down a hatchery (you won't be able to for long), your opponent can easily neutralize your tactic by making an extra hatchery. After AA comes online, the harass will be less effective, and your left with 3 expensive flying paperweights and he has an extra hatchery.

In the best case scenario, you're spending 300/300 to disrupt his production for a minute and make him spend 350 minerals, but his investment has greater utility throughout the game. Even in the best-case scenario, I think you're on the losing end of the trade unless you can figure out a way to parlay the minute of disrupted production into something more meaningful (like a quick win or a significant economy lead). With so much gas invested into the harassment, I doubt it will work out tho.

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[D] Contaminate "build" in ZvZ - Page 3

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