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On August 23 2010 09:06 iEchoic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 08:57 Nexic wrote:You are now in what I call the 'triple threat' position. It is called 'triple threat' because it sounds kick-ass and makes the strategy sound like it's prepared for anything. But seriously, this is where your 2port allows you to be versatile. Lol badass. I like your play a lot from random replays and tournaments that I've seen iEchoic, will definitely check this out ^^ New low-mid diamond player and I'm trying to branch out from ghost/marine to something more stable in TvP. Thanks, I appreciate it, good luck :p Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 09:03 dj.ricecakes wrote:
i like the rax fact rax port build tlo uses against protoss
2marines 1marauder 1hellion push
tech on factory swap with starport
reactor marines and maruaders from your 2 raxes
banshees without cloak
and hellion
2-4 banshee push with whatever you have should finish them off This build is part of the inspiration for my build, but I felt like the reactor and/or tech lab and additional barracks reduced the efficiency of the build. Between barracks cost, tech lab cost, worker build time, you're looking at around 300/50 just in overhead that isn't being turned into units in the earlygame. It also allows immortals to be effective against marauders. Sticking to marine/banshee forces the robotics bay to be a wasteful structure - while also forcing them to get a robotics bay at the threat of cloaked units.
ill try it your way next game i get against a protoss and see which one i prefer
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Man ive been messing around with hellion drop opening but it always seemed so flimsey and weak against any stargate opening the toss would go for. But this opening seems to be alot more stable, great post, can't wait to try it out.
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Sounds like a nice strat in theory! I'll have to try out this build.
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You should play Halo Wars again. We need something to rile the competition, and even if it's only for a week, I bet it would work  .
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Sounds really interesting and similiar to certain terran styles of broodwar, but with more follow-ups.
If any terran player wants to practice it with me(protoss) on europe server, from 5PM CET, please message :D.
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Australia7069 Posts
You should submit this to liquipedia if you haven't already. Really well written well thought out build. I've done something similar myself (but instead with an expansion during the drop into mech play) but still, really good build. only solid way to block a rushed 3 hellion drop is to have at least 4 stalkers sitting in your mineral line and not have an expansion
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The replay against nineteen really shows the strength of the marine-banshee composition. As a protoss player, that scares me. It was interesting to note that when the protoss army is a-moved, it targets the marines before the banshees.
The replay against time also scares me. I like to try to contain the terran with my army, and that hellion drop is so potent against an undefended base. I may have to tweak how I do things if this really catches on.
The replay against el paramedico shows, more than anything, how the build fails. He took good map control, was able to see when the drop and banshees were coming, and was able to react. If you watch that replay again closely, you'll see that for some reason...he just stops making probes. He has 2 bases with like, 1 probe per mineral patch. And then he tries to expand to the gold...so confusing.
If he had kept making probes, and kept macroing up his army, I think the marine-banshee army could have been overwhelmed pretty easily. That one colossi put a pretty big dent in your marines - just imagine if he had one or two more, and a few more stalkers.
Still...your army was extremely formidable even with the hellion drop and the banshee harass not working out - very nice
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Nice post. I just got some questions; when do you get an orbital command and do you get any upgrades for ur marines before pushing out?
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On August 23 2010 19:58 gerSelect wrote:
Nice post. I just got some questions; when do you get an orbital command and do you get any upgrades for ur marines before pushing out?
The orbital command is standard, I probably forgot to mention it, it's right after rax finishes, thanks. I usually save marine upgrades until after I start constructing my expo so that I can maximize unit output and minimize tech costs. You can play around with this for sure.
Glad everyone is enjoying it, I'll look into putting it on liquipedia.
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On August 24 2010 02:11 iEchoic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 19:58 gerSelect wrote:
Nice post. I just got some questions; when do you get an orbital command and do you get any upgrades for ur marines before pushing out?
The orbital command is standard, I probably forgot to mention it, it's right after rax finishes, thanks. I usually save marine upgrades until after I start constructing my expo so that I can maximize unit output and minimize tech costs. You can play around with this for sure. Glad everyone is enjoying it, I'll look into putting it on liquipedia.
So you're going to ignore my suggestion? I realize you said you're done with Halo Wars, but you should just come back for a day. All the high-level players are leaving...
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Nicely written guide sir. I am around 800 diamond and rising, and I have been watching rec after rec after rec looking for another strat to do vs Protoss that I liked other than the ghost/bio and occasional proxy maraduer that I am currently doing.
I look forward to the replays. What I like most even without the replays is that most every scenario is covered. I like the transtion into marauder/BC for templar, but I have had success with cloaked ghosts sniping energy before battle as well. Storm just sucks for us in any case
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On August 24 2010 06:13 ChainsOfAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2010 02:11 iEchoic wrote:On August 23 2010 19:58 gerSelect wrote:
Nice post. I just got some questions; when do you get an orbital command and do you get any upgrades for ur marines before pushing out?
The orbital command is standard, I probably forgot to mention it, it's right after rax finishes, thanks. I usually save marine upgrades until after I start constructing my expo so that I can maximize unit output and minimize tech costs. You can play around with this for sure. Glad everyone is enjoying it, I'll look into putting it on liquipedia. So you're going to ignore my suggestion? I realize you said you're done with Halo Wars, but you should just come back for a day. All the high-level players are leaving...
I don't have an xbox anymore, mine died, sorry. I'll come back for Halo Wars 2 - or even better, AoE4.
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Nice build and guide.
From the protoss point of view, a quick void ray/stalker push at the front door of the terran will cause a lot of problems for a terran using this build. I played against a terran using this build within the past couple weeks on Blistering Sands (the terran actually might have been iEchoic, but I didn't save the replay). My gateway force with 1 void ray arrived at the terran's front door right as the medivac was\heading to my base. I almost killed the medivac with my attacking force and left a couple stalkers at my main to shoot down the medivac when it arrived. Anyway, the void ray and gateway troops proceeded to burn down the front door of the terran fairly easily merely by adjusting the angle of attack away from the bunker to get the void ray charged. Eight or nine marines isn't enough to beat 4 stalkers, a couple zealots, a sentry, and a fully charged void ray. The terran might have done a little better without the wall in, but then he'd be opening himself to heavy 4gate pressure.
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how does this build do against other races? can the build be adapted to tvt or tvz?
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god i have nightmares about this build.
more like any T build, lol
-ikon
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hey xdaunt jw what was your bo? was it just a 1 gate quick vr that broke the front of the terran build? did the terran pull scv's to repair the bunker?
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How does this build do against other races. What are problems with this build against other races, and how can the build adapt?
Can this build hold off fast siege push, or fast banshee in TvT?
Can it beat voidray or DT rush?
How about baneling all in, or 1 base mutas?
Thanks for info, I am around 800 diamond and still learning.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
very strong build. might i suggest getting a raven out as soon as possible? you can deny those pesky observers and also multiple PDDs would own stalkers (what 99% toss players produce when they see banshees) virtually guaranteeing you destroy their natural expansion.
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What if someone made a halo wars mod for sc2...? ;D
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On August 24 2010 13:59 Sabresandiego wrote:
How does this build do against other races. What are problems with this build against other races, and how can the build adapt?
Can this build hold off fast siege push, or fast banshee in TvT?
Can it beat voidray or DT rush?
How about baneling all in, or 1 base mutas?
Thanks for info, I am around 800 diamond and still learning.
I'd imagine that against Zerg the risk of your Medivac being spotted by Overlords during its approach would make the drop much more risky, plus the Zerg army is much more mobile over creep than Protoss, your Hellions could be surrounded by lings in seconds whereas your Hellions can keep torching Probes for several seconds even after the Protoss army arrives. Successful or not, after the drop it doesn't seem like Marine Banshee would fare very well against Muta Bling.
Against Terran the drop could work but again, Marine Banshee seems like it would fail vs anything including Vikings, Thors, Tanks, etc.
Protoss are uniquely susceptible to the build because not only are they the most prone to the drop, but they have no reliable answer to 4 Banshees + Marines at the time it would come. Storm will not be ready, Collosi will be focused out instantly, and the Nineteen replay shows what happens to a Stalker Sentry army. Really the killer seems to be that Toss needs to spend money for Robo + Obs to make sure they don't get owned by Cloak - but Terran can always forgo cloak and be "up" the cost of the Robo + Obs (since nothing else from Robo is useful vs Marine Banshee).
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EPT
