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Question about using this build in 2v2:
I'm using this with my friend who plays toss, he generally goes 4 gate or 3 gate robo.
We've been on a tear when I do the 3 helion drop, transition to either banshees, or marine/tanks depending on what I see with the drop.
However, recently... it seems we've hit a bump as we climb higher and higher in standings and leagues. One thing that we seem to be having a lot of problems with are teams that do early aggression. When we scout, we'll see no gas and expect it -- but other times, we see 1 gas and go on with our build, except when I go to drop we usually get hit with mass marines/stalkers/etc.
Another counter that's hard to deal with I find are guys who go blink stalkers. By the time I drop my hellions, they are moving in to attack us. At most I have 3 tanks out with siege, but they just blink right on top of my tanks and we lose.
Any advice? One thing we thought of doing was, before I send my medivac+3helions for the drop (which is usually always exactly on time since the build is so efficient), I drop a couple of bunkers down at base and get our defenses set up... since dropping helions in 2v2 ASAP isn't AS important as it is in 1v1.
Thoughts?
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Policy,
I meant that blocking with rax isnt necessary, u can block ur ramp effiecny with 2 supply and bunker.
I have stoped using bio long time ago on my TvP and i m having great streak of winnings with this build, as few pepole already mentioned, the only problem i m really facing is the 3 gate blink, which comes about the 7 min. Yes, i do kill almost all of his mineral line with the drop, but i just cant hold his push as he pass my bunker easily.
Only stoped it once with alot of luck getting 2ed bunker and with a crazy micro in and out of the bunkers.
YakiSOBA
IMO this build isnt fit for 2v2, cuz u cant early aggresion with 1 bunker and 1 rax pumping marines, an you also wont have any serious force to help your ally if he gets attacked.
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Is this build still viable?
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On February 17 2011 10:40 kayoh.amf wrote:
Is this build still viable?
why wouldn't it be?
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Iechoic are you still useing this build often? or a variation of it?
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this build just seems like a hit or miss... if he scouts this with obs, you're done
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Powerful build, i kinda look forward to the toss games now 
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Hey doods!!
First of all ty for this strategy iEchoic!!
I am a gold rank player.
I am using this strategy against most P. It's like all of P go 4gate rush on gold?! The hellion drop is like OP! the most of them don't expect it,, 9/10 probes are easy kill. Then the banshee harassment starts! 
tip 1: for low rank players: when you drop the hellions target the probes that are mining most of the times there are 2 so 2kill every attack . play a custom game and practice this. With this drop you can make the difference.. Also follow the damm probes mostly they stack up XD
tip 2: do a drop before he gets a observer in your base and calculate the fly path of the observer so you don't fly into it
TY TY!
Replay CLICK!
EDIT: 08-03-2011 Replay add and a extra tip.
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On February 19 2011 17:21 Tsuycc wrote:
this build just seems like a hit or miss... if he scouts this with obs, you're done
You're not. A 1 gate robo build (or probably even 2 gate robo) can have an obs in your base right after your medivac departs (sometimes see it go if you're on LT/metalopolis close air positions), but that won't prevent you from dropping or dealing damage. Also, you don't need cloak (I never get it since they fast robo anyway now) for your attack.
It's less powerful because most P fast expand nowadays, so you don't do as much economic damage and you can't abuse the timing of their expo because you hit late, but it's still efficient.
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Dlabs : definitly agree, this build really punishes the 4 gate you will see every game. Make sure you dont make a mistake early, get youyr medivac out before they get to your front door, drop in their base as they attack your bunkers, repair, micro a little bit, gg. once you have 4 banshees out + marine ball its over. just make sure u repair your bunkers (and not press T instead of R ;P)
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Very nice strategy, works wonders if executed properly and forcefields are less effective against your army composition,which is the main reason MMM usually falls.
To follow up,if the opponent goes for High templars and you have a lot of banshees,I would suggest getting the cloak just so you can deplete their energy,so in a real fight they don't get feedbacked to death.
I guess a storm will do as much damage but that's another story. 
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used to enjoy this but not used it in a while. surely it doesn't still work though does it? just thought that with new patch, faster observer seeing everything and the obvious stargaet chron'd phoenixes response it is hard countered?
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OMW I am almost a Platinum player and I can do this build, and also the TvT version. It works really well and I am enjoying the success, when I lose its me. I sometimes focus to much on a certain unit since my macro slips and then the synergy is off, but other than that I love it. I feel so mobile with this build. a major problem for me was the fact that I switched from Zerg to Terran mostly as a result of boredom. But I felt that most of the 'stock' Terran builds were too stiff and not very mobile (IMO of course). This is the first build that I really enjoy. I don't feel like:"Hmm maybe I should roll Zerg again" any more.
iEchoic you only need to make a build like this for TvZ then I can almost imagine the first Blizzard patch in history to be named after a player: The Eichoic Fix Patch Not that I believe it is unbalanced I just feel sorry for the player on the receiving when this build is executed well (especially on my level) since a large portion of the main army doubles as excellent harassment units.
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On March 13 2011 02:16 rmAmnesiac wrote:
used to enjoy this but not used it in a while. surely it doesn't still work though does it? just thought that with new patch, faster observer seeing everything and the obvious stargaet chron'd phoenixes response it is hard countered?
Yeah it's definitely not an auto-win anymore. I do feel the faster observers have made a difference. My success rate on the hellion drop has lowered drastically. It made the timing a lot tighter so that you need to get your loaded medivac out of your base as soon as the 3rd hellion is out.
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If you make a refinery before the barracks, you can probably get to his base about 20-30seconds faster with the medivac but you are very vurnerable to frontal attacks. The chronoed phoenixes make this build much harder but I prefer it to the standard MMM.
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You brought about the demise of standard TVT and now you have to make terrans better against me? :'(
In all seriousness, nice build order, hope you can keep contributing the tl.net community even while school is going. Best of luck!
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Thanks for sharing your build iEchoic. (I hope you find a cool build for TvZ :D)
I've been using this at mid-high masters and still enjoying success with it. My thoughts:
-Banshees are ridiculous and this opening forces the toss to get a lot of tech to match yours, making this build viable
-Phoenix first deals with it decent but you can match with vikings and focus more on bio.
-Against collosus it seems to be really strong if P continues down the robo tech
-"Fast" HT "opening" seems fairly good vs this build, but i haven't played vs it much and i've only seen it against people who know what build i'm doing (makes starport more useless imo -- midgame transition to HT is ok because you can get ghosts and emp HTs as well as any banshees.)
-Any early aggression (especially ones where your bunkers at ramp are rendered useless) is hard to deal with and i had trouble with it at first. overall 2 starport is very strong as long as you survive any protoss aggression, so i put down 2 bunkers if no expo, and 3rd bunker if no expo by the time my hellions drop
-Good build for the current TvP "metagame" on ladder
I've also done a variation where i opt for a faster CC instead of hellion drop, because the hellion drop has got me a lot of free wins on ladder but it hasn't been "incredibly strong even if they know its coming ahead of time" for custom games. (You still have to scout somehow though :D)
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sonnyb, can you post any recent replays of this build and your variation?
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First of all, I would like to thank you for sharing you ingenious build with us. I can only hope that one day I can devise my own builds, you are truly an inspiration. One thing I do have to say is that your hotkey setup is insane! lol. I tried it and obviously since I'm not used to it it didn't work very well, I definitely have to give you props for that. Again, I thank you for sharing, along with your TvT build, that too was very clever. After I get used to these builds I believe it will help me immensely with these match ups. Keep up the good work and I am anxious to see what you come up with in the future.
Cheers!
EDIT: Just fixed some spelling errors
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Great Post and thank you very much for that build
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EPT
