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I think the variation with getting speed early is making this build quite a bit stronger. Everything just flows nicely into another.
I use this build since it was posted in every ZvP i play with great success. Even if my protoss opponent is getting enough stalkers to render the early roach push void the 5 roaches together with a spine crawler will keep my expansion save.
Against any kind of protoss early aggression i feel that i can get into midgame ahead of my opponent.
Against terran i still prefer another opening, because multiple barracks with tech-lab openings are so abundant after the IEM. If my opponent has those tech lab barracks i feel that 1-2 cycles of marauders are just too strong for this build to deal with.
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Wow, you're famous, Fist!
Good job. I love your build.
<333
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Could you please also put the 13pool/15gas build back in the OP, or send it to me via PM? I hope you still have it somewhere^^
I only started practicing it today and now I wanted to try it again and it's gone xD
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Thanks, it worked for me ,atleast in some friend games :D
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I just started trying this, but I'm liking it vs T.
Against Protoss I react to a 2gate with Roaches and against a warpgate push I just try to macro perfectly and hold my expansion (at which point you win). If he goes warpgates -> expansion I just mass Hydras and steamroll before he can get enough colos out.
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On August 26 2010 03:53 caution.slip wrote:fistdantilus, greeting from china, where you're now famous! xmoegame：五蟑螂RUSH战术分析 (5 cockroaches rush tactics) http://v.sc2.com.cn/1008/146683507834.htmlits commentary on one of your games vs logic. posted august 25th, 2010
That is awesome! =)
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I love this build! I've been practicing and trying to get it down just right (losing a couple times to mistakes on my part). I noticed in the fast stargate replay the Protoss went for phoenix(s). How would you react to void rays? I recently played a match where after spotting the first void ray out I began an evo chamber and spore crawlers, but by then he was able to wreak havoc and began accumulating a large amount of void rays. More than likely mistakes on my part or bad placement, but what would your advice be regarding the correct way to handle void rays?
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I've used this build vs a void ray toss. it worked pretty well. I busted in and started causing trouble, but the ray then came out and allowed him to start mopping up my forces.
main thing to do when you see the starport is:
- Build 2nd queen asap
- Get evo chamber and some spores
that should buy you enough time to get hydras out. In the game i played i ended up losing my queens as my hydras popped to fend off the push. then it was just build up hydras (he kept going air :D) and win, with the odd ling harrass as minerals piled up.
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On August 20 2010 11:59 Fistdantilus wrote:
14 drones and limited to one hatch, but that's NOT all-in?
Please don't respond anymore. =(
+1, you won't gg after that as Protoss will be somewhat reluctant to move out, but good luck in the mid game if you don't do any economical damage
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I am loving this build vs T!!! Great transition into anything after. Thanks Fist
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Fist great post and good job not giving into the armchair theorycrafters that evidently can counter any build with the power of their imagination. They don't seem to realize that there is no build that will win you every game, but having an arsenal of builds and adapting to your current situation is what makes a great player.
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Thanks very much for this post Fist, looking forward very much to trying it out now that I've had a few dry runs to smooth it out for my play!
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Long long time lurker, but registered so that I could post how much I love this build.
so far only thing thats given me a ton of trouble is a very strong 2gate, or a forge cannon turtle.
I'm 700 Gold or so, This is versus a platinum Terran on Kulas, it was perfect!
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-142903.jpg)
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I love the build, Fist! Sadly, the first time I executed it, my opponent turns out to be a map hacker. Ugh.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-142912.jpg)
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wow, haven't tried this yet, but certainly going to. There's talk of it all over the forums!
Nice one fist! :D
Btw does this work against that kind of reaper play Morrow went vs IdrA? are the roaches out in time to help defend against that?
I assume it would be though, since you get ling speed and you don't FE.
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I absolutely love this build. It shuts down any early push by Toss, especially 2-gate. It is so funny seeing a Toss try a 2-gate and have his zealots destroyed by my roaches. I started using it against Terran as well and it is great when they go reapers. I did lose a game, when the Terran went tank, marauder, marine. I tried to tech to mutas but he pushed back before and lost.
I also stumbled upon a variation when I forgot to research speed after getting the extractor at 13. If you keep the drones on gas then you can actually pop 7 roaches at once, get speed for lings, and expo by the time the roaches pop. I was just recently promoted to gold thanks to this strat, so I don't know how viable it is, but does give you a little stronger push.
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Awesome new opener, thanks for this.
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Hey guys, a HUGE fan of this build. Works pretty damn well against Protoss, and Terran sometimes, but I think I screwed up in this particular game. Can someone take a look at this and tell me exactly what went wrong? Feel free to flame/critique the hell out of me -- I could use some improvement.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-142962.jpg)
Vs. Z, I thought it'd be useful to help block off the choke for speedling/banelings, and that's what I usually do since I hate the spling/bling game. I absolutely fail against 6 pool though.
Addendum: I was reading the OP about the BO and then looked at the Liquipedia BO, and I feel like I got lost in translation somewhere in between. Maybe that's what threw me off. Or I just suck.
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Love the build, and been using it ever since I read about it. :D
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Great post Fist. I love reading well done zerg build posts. Watched half the replays and read through some of the posts. I disagree with anybody putting this build down. This build does its job well. Its like a baneling type bust but more powerful and more economic and with a lot less risk from other openings the opponent does.
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EPT
