EPT[H]PvT why do I keep losing to noobs? - Page 5
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
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Dogsi
Indonesia298 Posts
On August 10 2010 15:15 wackedupwacko wrote: As a diamond terran player, I have found that protoss going 2 gate robo is rather safe from almost all harass early (you have your observer to slow down banshee harass, 1 immortal to deal with any kinda early tank push) but you needa have a good follow up that isnt collosus, collosus is way too easy to take out, all you need is like 5 stimmed marauders and they can suicide into the stalkers if they want to take out the collosus, it takes alot longer to build collosus number up than it is to reinforce MM. I would suggest going more gateway heavy and zeal/temp (and immortal if the game goes a bit longer because the terran should really be getting a good number of tanks to support his bio ball). and o you need a fair few observers, DO NOT SKIMP ON OBSERVER NUMBERS! need about 2 going around near your army and a couple just to check on him why you might ask... cloaked ghost ruin your day. How to use the immortals effectively? Seems like they just targets my immortals with stimmed marines and it goes down quickly. | ||
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newbkills
United States25 Posts
I got for a modified korean-style 4warp gate attack. I proxy pylon outside T base and warp in stalkers (i keep probes on gas vs T). I move up the ramp and see whats going on. Most likely, you would have already been scouted and they know they got a 4gate push coming. Since you probably can't move in, back off and take your expansion keep warping in a few units and build more probes. Throw down a Robo right away for observer and then 2-3 Immortals. Now, throw down 2 stargates (hide it as best you can and pump out void rays. Use your extra minerals on zealots. You're main army will probably get scanned and he'll see a normal gateway mix + immortals, looks normal at the moment. He'll probably take an expo too. If T doesn't move out, just keep massing the void rays, once you get a critical number which depends on how marine heavy his army is, you can either move out with your ground army and void rays together. Your ground force will most likely get eaten up pretty fast, but your void rays should survive and if you have a decent number, its GG! You should at the very least try to take out their expo, then just sit back, macro and you should be fine with that kind of advantage. Of course, you have to keep your void rays hidden. If you want, try hiding your stargates somewhere else on the map. | ||
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Dbeezy
United States13 Posts
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gdroxor
United States639 Posts
Most of the time I can't even expand before I instantly lose to MM + tanks 1a'ing into my base. | ||
Sanasante
United States321 Posts
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bellyfrog
New Zealand72 Posts
Versus Terran I usually go 3 gate > council > templar > gate then either add a robo or a bunch more gates if I get an expand up. High Templar are the key, they are the only unit you need good control with. If you use Zealot/Sentry/Stalker in group 1, your sentries are the first unit in the group for easy forcefields/guardian shields. Then have your HT in group 2 for easy stormage. Save a little chrono boost for spamming it on Psionic Storm. Usually you can defend the terran initial push with a good FF or two on your ramp, then you can either counter push if you think you can do enough damage or sit tight until you have 5-6 HT with storm. It comes along right about the time terran is thinking about going for that next attack. If they aren't attacking they are probably expanding, throw up your own expand and slam down a bunch more gateways. 2 base protoss can easily spam down 8 Gateways no problems. The ideal mix for this is about 15+ zealots, 6-8 sentries, 12+ stalkers and 6+ HT. (For a mid game army). I had a LOT of trouble with this matchup too but the main problem is that early push with marauder concussion, if you are pro with forcefields its not too hard to take out. Just make sure you are constantly spamming units from your gateways you should have 4-5 zealots, 2-3 sentries and a couple of stalkers by the time that initial push arrives. edit - oh and I didn't watch your replays but 2 gate 2 gas is a really nice build so you can pump a few sentries before the push arrives  | ||
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Dogsi
Indonesia298 Posts
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shannn
Netherlands2891 Posts
FF trap the marauders so they can't stim attack your collosi. Collosi will melt them without taking damage then. This works best vs bio balls so seeing you have no problem early game but rather lategame. I don't see what the problem is yet. | ||
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churn
28 Posts
On August 08 2010 08:36 DennyR wrote: ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-136593.jpg) first game on xel naga caverns. He actually isnt noob, but this is a good example how screwed I am against timingpushes wihtout aoe. Was there anything I could have done to win this game? Iam sure there is, but I dont see it You can see that he made 1 marine and then a reactor. A double stalker opening would have completely raped this. (12 gate, 14 gas, 16 - cut probes until you build gate, cyber, pylon, when the cyber finishes you will have enough money for 2 chrono boosted stalkers) Anyway you should have been much more aggressive. I can't stress enough how weak 1 marine -> reactor is. Unit comp: you scouted the reactor with your stalker but couldn't see anything else, but then on your next warp cycle, you made more stalkers. That's not a good idea. In low numbers, stalkers pick marines apart, but in larger armies, marines are MUCH more cost effective. If you sense heavy low tech play, go for twilight council for zealot charge and stay alive with forcefields until it finishes. Then move into HT since you already have twilight. It's faster than you think and a decent timing within the game. He can't magically have THAT much MM and medivacs so early in the game; it's just not possible. Replays: (okay, I played really badly in both these replays, so don't laugh; 1) They are really old, I couldn't find any newer ones since I'm not in the habit of saving everything 2) I'm a random player, not a toss player) http://www.filefront.com/17189603/Standard PvT.SC2Replay http://www.filefront.com/17189604/pvt early mm.SC2Replay btw I have a much more robust timing in TvP (remember I play random). If you research stim on the first tech lab and then conc shell at the second tech lab, you will have stim and conc shell at the same time around 7 mins; it hurts much more than these delayed MM attacks. These are pretty low level (I want to say mid plat) | ||
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cHuT.LoL
United States34 Posts
On August 10 2010 18:36 gdroxor wrote: Unless I do a very aggressive 4gate build and immediately win the game I can't seem to beat an equally skilled Terran. I feel like I have to micro my units 100x better to beat an equal cost army. Most of the time I can't even expand before I instantly lose to MM + tanks 1a'ing into my base. Why is there always this assumption that you're equally skilled when you "can't seem to win"? What basis do you have for relative skill besides the fact that you are losing? | ||
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gdroxor
United States639 Posts
On August 10 2010 22:42 cHuT.LoL wrote: Why is there always this assumption that you're equally skilled when you "can't seem to win"? What basis do you have for relative skill besides the fact that you are losing? If we both have equal cost armies on the tech available given the time elapsed, and tank/marine/marauder beats any combination of gateway units, how would you describe the situation? I highly doubt that most Terran players are inherently better than I for the sole reason that they play Terran. | ||
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Pokedude1013
116 Posts
On August 11 2010 03:20 gdroxor wrote: If we both have equal cost armies on the tech available given the time elapsed, and tank/marine/marauder beats any combination of gateway units, how would you describe the situation? I highly doubt that most Terran players are inherently better than I for the sole reason that they play Terran. Equal cost armies doesn't mean they should turn out even; his army composition > yours; tanks+bio > pure gateway if he has time to get out tanks you have time to get out a robo stargate or twilight council | ||
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gdroxor
United States639 Posts
On August 11 2010 05:19 Pokedude1013 wrote: Equal cost armies doesn't mean they should turn out even; his army composition > yours; tanks+bio > pure gateway if he has time to get out tanks you have time to get out a robo stargate or twilight council Getting out a robo/stargate/TC means I get run over by a superior ground force, regardless. I have yet to find a way to build less than 3 gateways and not instantly lose to the first or second push by a competent Terran. | ||
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KaiserJohan
Sweden1808 Posts
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underjeep
Canada3 Posts
US/canada server silverjunk . 498 | ||
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DennyR
Germany379 Posts
On August 11 2010 07:05 underjeep wrote: I need help, I'm a diamond terran (rank 7) and I need help from another terran player, if you know how to stop 2 gate proxy as terran friend me and message me about it, ill play as toss and do it to you US/canada server silverjunk . 498 just watch the whitera vs intotherainbow match on steppes of war from the king of the beta cup. he managed to survive and win the game pretty impressively. | ||
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Night1989
Germany19 Posts
The mainproblem was that you didn't used your forcefields well. There were 2 examples. Nr1: He tried to ran up your ramp, let the half size of his army do it, make forcefiled and seperate them. Nr2: You used your forcefields to cut off his escapeway... but he killed your army. Cast them directly in his army so it will be splitted, additionally some units get stacked into it, you might have taken the battle as the winner if you forcefielded well. Then plz add some zealots. You need them. | ||
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Dogsi
Indonesia298 Posts
On August 11 2010 05:19 Pokedude1013 wrote: Equal cost armies doesn't mean they should turn out even; his army composition > yours; tanks+bio > pure gateway if he has time to get out tanks you have time to get out a robo stargate or twilight council except those tanks kick the crap out of temps and cols. Really, the problem is that protoss air units suck hard compared to terran units. VR's are to slow and phoenix's are tin cans like wraiths in sc1 were (but no cloak). So to make VR's actually useful, you need large numbers of them and you need to upgrade their speed. Meanwhile, terran out of the box cheaper air units will own them. Phoenix's will simply melt to their marines. As such, a toss is forced to go ground in combat and only use air for early harrass and early map control. In a pure ground battle, I have tried a wide variety of unit composition and still get mowed down very easily by the mmm/tank/air support ball. Maybe I need more FF's? | ||
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Night1989
Germany19 Posts
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