EPTLong story short I had the greatest lead in the world but still lost once his instant win thors came. He have 1 expo less than me 6 supply depot short and less scv during midgame and he still won cuz of his thors. Now that I am thinking about it. I coulda make 5-6 infesters instead of hydras and MC his thors instead. But I wouldn’t had the hydras to kill off his marauders and hellions also….so I really don’t know. Those thors can prolly kill my infestors before I can even come in range to MC.
ZvT: how to stop Marauder thor hellion - Page 4
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
BiggestNoobEver
United States4 Posts
Long story short I had the greatest lead in the world but still lost once his instant win thors came. He have 1 expo less than me 6 supply depot short and less scv during midgame and he still won cuz of his thors. Now that I am thinking about it. I coulda make 5-6 infesters instead of hydras and MC his thors instead. But I wouldn’t had the hydras to kill off his marauders and hellions also….so I really don’t know. Those thors can prolly kill my infestors before I can even come in range to MC. | ||
|
Rice
United States1332 Posts
On April 18 2010 11:07 BiggestNoobEver wrote: everyone says outmacro. its not that easy. let me tell u a story. let me begin by saying the terran walled his ramp with 3 supply depot. i did the baneling/ling rush thing and wow was it effective!! it killed all THREE supply depots!!!!! but he got a buncha helions so he survived. I had some extra lings so i decided to baneling bomb his new wall again and it was like dejavu another 3 supply depot gone. a total of 6 supply depot gone. i can't imagine a greater head start. also i had an expo after my first bomb to keep the lead. so its 2 base vs 1 and terran lost 6 depots. With all 4 of my gases up. He also wasted 4 reapers trying to jump my drones but my lings got em easily. He lost 4 reapers while I lost nothing. So im in an even bigger lead. i was really confident and i decided to go mutas to continue the harrass. but thats when i saw his thors. and thats when i decided to switch from mutas to hydras but was already too late. i couldn't pump out enuff hydras to fend off his thors. Long story short I had the greatest lead in the world but still lost once his instant win thors came. He have 1 expo less than me 6 supply depot short and less scv during midgame and he still won cuz of his thors. Now that I am thinking about it. I coulda make 5-6 infesters instead of hydras and MC his thors instead. But I wouldn’t had the hydras to kill off his marauders and hellions also….so I really don’t know. Those thors can prolly kill my infestors before I can even come in range to MC. sounds like you really werent in all that big of a lead afterall, and your tech was WAY too slow. One thing people need to learn about zerg is you can't really throw down your tech buildings reactively, they need to be up when you are in the mid game so you are prepared to counter anything. Did you stop building drones after a certain point? I really dont think you should attribute a loss like this to imbalance. Analyze the replay and im sure you will find a glaring mistake in your play. | ||
|
ohN
United States1075 Posts
Thors ONE-SHOT hydras so imo, they arent so great to get when he has thors. If T is pumping thors, a good neural by an infestor will screw him over bad. Thors also one-shot hellions and they cant be used against you if you mc them. | ||
|
uberdeluxe
Canada306 Posts
| ||
|
Xyik
Canada728 Posts
| ||
|
uberdeluxe
Canada306 Posts
| ||
|
Antpile
United States213 Posts
On April 18 2010 11:25 uberdeluxe wrote: This is a tough combo, but what about ling/ultras? If you turtle and build economy early game, you could just get every extractor available to you, and do sweet surrounds. Lings take out thors/marauders, and ultras absorb near infinite damage when upgraded. Another possibility is some drop play with lings to snipe poorly protected expansions, since thors are super immobile. If he sends back hellions/marauders to kill the lings, even better! Kill the thors he leaves behind! Thors own ultras really hard. I did a test with a friend once where i used 6 ultras vs his 6 thors, and the ultras killed a single thor before they were all dead. Granted it isn't so black and white as that during a real fight, but you also have to remember that marauders own ultras pretty hard as well. So really, vs this terran composition, ultras are one of the worst units you could make. Brood lords own this terran army as long as he hasn't made vikings yet. The problem is surviving until you have brood lords. | ||
|
Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
On April 18 2010 13:19 Antpile wrote: Thors own ultras really hard. I did a test with a friend once where i used 6 ultras vs his 6 thors, and the ultras killed a single thor before they were all dead. Granted it isn't so black and white as that during a real fight, but you also have to remember that marauders own ultras pretty hard as well. So really, in any matchup ultras are one of the worst units you could make. Brood lords own this terran army as long as he hasn't made vikings yet. The problem is surviving until you have brood lords. | ||
|
dudeman001
United States2412 Posts
1. Baneling bust: Zerg goes banelings. Competent terrans will see them coming, even if it's 10-15 seconds before the attack. what do they do? well, they have depots and a rax at the ramp. they've also already build a factory for the fast mech. This gets floated over and another depot/bunker get built... and Terran will now survive the baneling swarm (with hellions quickly on the way) 2. Hydraling: throwing lings into a Terran mech ball is foolishness. Hellions with igniter upgrade WILL 3. Mutas: in general are just useless against this. If Terran is allowed to amass 4-5 thors, mutas get ripped apart. As for harassing the terran's main: all I've done is left 1 thor in my base with 1-2 turrets next to it, depending how many mutas Z made. Think of the turrets+thor as a tower defending your entire base. Mutas that go to snipe the thor will have to endure turret pounding. It's just not economical. 4. Mass roaches: most useful when Terran neglects to mass marauders with his mech. Terran is weakest to this while on one base because he can't easily sustain thors AND marauders AND hellions and upgrades. Once Terran takes his nat, however, this becomes less and less viable. 5. Hydra-ling-roach-infestor: The most powerful counter to mech. If army composition is done right, it can fight mech. (Note how I say fight, not beat). If you plan on using infestors to immobilize the thors, get ready to lose them to focus fired marauders. Infestors die weakishly fast and all those resources go to waste once the thors are back online... and proceed to one shot all those expensive hydras. There are a few more builds Z can try, but really it doesn't matter. Hellions will destroy all lings. Marauders will destroy roaches and hold their own against hydras. Thors will decimate hydras and mutas. What I BELIEVE Zerg should do (theorycraft) An immobile army nowadays is a fail army. If zerg sees Terran going mech, I can only imagine Z winning by taking a quick 3rd or even 4th base and simply outmacroing. The most powerful element of mech - the thor - cannot travel across the map (as I write this I'm considering putting thors in medivacs like reavers in BW PvP... If T wises up to this, disregard everything I'm about to say  ) and if Terran does move out, surrounding the ball is quite possible. The main strategy with mech is: find zerg army, kill zerg army, kill zerg base. If terran can't easily engage the zerg army, it can't kill your base, and if it can't kill your base(s), it can't stop your macro. Therefore, creep tumor the shit out of the map and stay as mobile as possible.There are maps like steppes of war where maneuvering everywhere is difficult... I really don't have any advice for that. Like I started, I feel that mech is currently broken. I hope my post/semi-theorycrafting at least helps Zergs know what NOT to do. | ||
|
tenpromicro
United States119 Posts
| ||
|
peetah
Sweden88 Posts
On April 18 2010 11:07 BiggestNoobEver wrote: everyone says outmacro. its not that easy. let me tell u a story. let me begin by saying the terran walled his ramp with 3 supply depot. i did the baneling/ling rush thing and wow was it effective!! it killed all THREE supply depots!!!!! but he got a buncha helions so he survived. I had some extra lings so i decided to baneling bomb his new wall again and it was like dejavu another 3 supply depot gone. a total of 6 supply depot gone. i can't imagine a greater head start. also i had an expo after my first bomb to keep the lead. so its 2 base vs 1 and terran lost 6 depots. With all 4 of my gases up. He also wasted 4 reapers trying to jump my drones but my lings got em easily. He lost 4 reapers while I lost nothing. So im in an even bigger lead. i was really confident and i decided to go mutas to continue the harrass. but thats when i saw his thors. and thats when i decided to switch from mutas to hydras but was already too late. i couldn't pump out enuff hydras to fend off his thors. Long story short I had the greatest lead in the world but still lost once his instant win thors came. He have 1 expo less than me 6 supply depot short and less scv during midgame and he still won cuz of his thors. Now that I am thinking about it. I coulda make 5-6 infesters instead of hydras and MC his thors instead. But I wouldn’t had the hydras to kill off his marauders and hellions also….so I really don’t know. Those thors can prolly kill my infestors before I can even come in range to MC. Roaches should be the main counter vs Thors, so I understand it's a bit harsch after patch 8. Also, a decent terran wont use a supply wall vs z cause of the dimaga rush. He will use rax, factory or maybe even starport instead, so those Banelings will have a harder time breaking it. | ||
|
BiggestNoobEver
United States4 Posts
and imo: Thor is the new goliath which is the anti air for terran. what they need to do is nerf the shit outta thor's ground attack cuz lik the goliath has good AA but weak ass ground attack. 90dmg to ground wow..but the thor @ its current state needs both air and ground nerf but more ground. it almost seems lik thor's ground attack is better than his air atttack. more dmg cept his air can actually splash. as for ultra..it does not work cuz thors can use his special ability and 1 shot the ultras so you basically need at least 2x as many ultras as they do thors which is too expensive.and even without using the special attack like the poster above said thors still > ultras by alot. and definitely make thors easier to die too cuz with a few scv repair it can tank anything. my thor tanked a buncha stalkers + hydras in my 2v2 earlier. lik around 10 units shooting at me and i stilll healed more than they do dmg but i had lik 7 scvs tho lol. as for right now...my conclusion is theres no way to beat the mech build. infestors work but only to delay ur death. thats what i think. so im gonna go back to protoss until they nerf thors but ill continue to test builds with my friend. but im stuck in gold league cuz of zvt. 9/10 loss came from zvt. everytime i rank up a terran comes along and i go back down  . so ill rank up as protoss and test zvt builds on custom games. my point: impossible to win zvt | ||
|
NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
The biggest problem with mass Roach is the Roach's range. They can have more units shooting at you than you can have shooting back. If you take some Roaches that can't get into the fight and dive under the Terran army, you can pop them up right in the middle. Now you have that many more Roaches that are able to actually contribute to the battle. You can also use burrowed Roaches like Force Fields that have health, cutting the Terran army in half. Pop them up in the right place, and the Terrans have to walk around or kill the Roaches, which allows your other Roaches to do something useful. Detection doesn't really stop this. It certainly hurts it, but it doesn't stop it. Something that might also be considered would be Zergling drops to compliment the Roaches. Once the battle is joined, just drop Zerglings on top of the enemy force. | ||
|
liq3
Australia34 Posts
I'm not sure if getting broodlords t3 is a good idea. You'd have to try it out. You don't want broods until you've thoroughly out macro'd him (e.g. you have one base more then him and map control) and want to do the final push, as they're extremely slow and you lose your mobility if you rely on them to kill his army midgame. Surprising him with like 8 broodlords to complete your roach/hydra army when you're ready to kill should be extremely effective though. | ||
|
BiggestNoobEver
United States4 Posts
| ||
|
kme
Serbia176 Posts
| ||
|
Bubbadub
United States156 Posts
On April 12 2010 02:22 VereZ wrote: Thors are just coming 15s earlier than previously, it is just that people tend to tech faster to them. What is important to know is that if someone techs hards to Thor, he has a very bad army (only marines almost), so it is easily rushable by a banneling/Zergling. Moreover, T tend to lift off the first barack after making a tech lab, so that the factory gets to thor even faster. If you spot this (sacrifice some zerglings to this), you can destroy the factory that is in front of the wall (since the barrack was in front of the wall). It has 1250 HP I think so you have to send quite a lot of bannelings, but well, if you kill it, it's GG... He would have teched for this for nothing and have something like 6-10 marines? I really like this idea and it would work into my current ZvT build very well. The main disadvantage that I've seen when terrans use this strategy is it is VERY easy to scout what the Terran is doing (if you have overlords in the right places). | ||
|
Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On April 18 2010 19:35 kme wrote: Mass mutas and lings with slow transitioning into broodlords (if he goes vikings make hydras too). The point is to outharass and outmacro the terran. Thors are not that good against mutas if they are not clumped up and they are too slow to keep up with a large number of mutas(one thor in base is not enough). Both lings and mutas are the most mobile units in the game so you basically gain instant map control. All you have to do is prevent the terran from getting his third base (overlords must be placed on every expo) and you will win in the end. What about all-in from 1 base? | ||
|
FREEloss_ca
Canada603 Posts
On April 09 2010 07:31 Chill wrote: This thread seems to me kind of like asking "How do I beat Templar/Colossus/Sentry?". Like there's not going to be one unit that crushes it, you just need to control the game enough that he doesn't get this perfect blob of units. If he does get it, you need to deny expansions and then crash the army over and over until you whittle it down. The first smart post in this thread. Pretty much, this is Sc2, a game full of hard counters, where a good unit mix is crucial. There's many other variables that determine victory or defeat; the game doesn't entirely revolve around trying to counter x/y/z units. | ||
|
MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
| ||
| ||
