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Pretty much all you can do is pray Terran screws up somehow when attacking with their timing push MMMT balls. Your only hope as Z is to have a mach larger and more diverse army than his and use infestors' abilities. Most likely the T will snipe ur infestors very quickly and run over the rest.
People talk about using mutas for harassment but with the huge turret buff and any thors that may be in T's base will simply annihilate ur mutas or at least make it a much larger loss for you.
VS an equal T or better who knows how to play vs Z it seems they have a huge advantage you must constantly overcome from the Reaper/hellion/cloaked banshee harass to the Marauder push to the upgraded MMMT ball and on.
I've seen about 70% loss rate by Z in ZvT matches from top 5 streamers it's pretty silly at this point that it hasn't been rebalanced somehow... O wait yea they did by nerfing the Roach and Hydra haha.
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The problem is that in some maps is super difficult to get ahead, in DO thors can shut down your geysers and any number of hydras you use to defend them, then even if you manage to drop some units at his island expansion he can make the hellion/marauder/thor push and you dont have enough gas for infestors... it is quite difficult now to beat terran, i recommend roach/ling with infestors and getting a good enough flank (in some maps like kulas imposible) with your lings so they all dont die to the hellions...
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On April 08 2010 14:32 Geo.Rion wrote:
Infestors => neutral paralyse Thors => GG
Oh damn, i forgot Blizzard nerfed that ability and now it is useless
Mass muta should be able to kill it!
Oh Wait! Blizzard buffed everything that might shoot at them, i guess we need sg else
The good old Roach and Hydra based ground army supported with lings can stand up to the chalenge
Wait, what you're saying? Patch 8? What? Roaches got nerfed, and Hydras nerfed even more? What? What retard had this stupid idea? I guess switch race, that's what i'm thinking about
zerg is still the best race btw lol. Roach/hydra still kills any army composition in the game.
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Terran can hide 3-4 SCVs behind Thors for repair... and you can't target them, so you can only kill them with banshee splash.
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On April 08 2010 14:32 Geo.Rion wrote:
Infestors => neutral paralyse Thors => GG
Oh damn, i forgot Blizzard nerfed that ability and now it is useless
Mass muta should be able to kill it!
Oh Wait! Blizzard buffed everything that might shoot at them, i guess we need sg else
The good old Roach and Hydra based ground army supported with lings can stand up to the chalenge
Wait, what you're saying? Patch 8? What? Roaches got nerfed, and Hydras nerfed even more? What? What retard had this stupid idea? I guess switch race, that's what i'm thinking about
Actually infestors are really easy to kill. Thors one shot them and thor auto attack has alot longer range than their parasite.
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On April 11 2010 23:46 OHtRUe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 14:32 Geo.Rion wrote:
Infestors => neutral paralyse Thors => GG
Oh damn, i forgot Blizzard nerfed that ability and now it is useless
Mass muta should be able to kill it!
Oh Wait! Blizzard buffed everything that might shoot at them, i guess we need sg else
The good old Roach and Hydra based ground army supported with lings can stand up to the chalenge
Wait, what you're saying? Patch 8? What? Roaches got nerfed, and Hydras nerfed even more? What? What retard had this stupid idea? I guess switch race, that's what i'm thinking about
zerg is still the best race btw lol. Roach/hydra still kills any army composition in the game.
This is true. As long as you can shut down any thor or helion harass and keep on expanding pure roach hydra is the best way to go. Also thors become ridiculously bad lategame when there's alot of roaches since they will drop so fast and roaches wont. The 1 food roach is currently what's stopping this build hard atm. Terran can win with this if they get ahead with harass, not otherwise.
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I tested the Thor drop with my practice partner - and it is very very hard to defend on a map with cliffs. Close to impossible on LT. Look like you need to put 3 spine crawlers next to cliff to save your natural.
Thor+Hellion+Marauder army cannot be beaten head-to-head with equal resources. You have to backstab, drop and outmacro Terran, which basically means to outplay him with superior skill.
Does anyone have a replay of beating this strategy as Zerg on Lost Temple?
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This has been annihilating me too. I used to be able to deal with thors but now they are coming out way earlier and there will be more than one usually in the back where I can't reach. They are like collosus, sorta, but invulnerable to air. When I go mutas it is pretty much gg right there. Static defenses seem to just get annihilated. I haven't tried roach, I usually don't use them against terran, but I may have to now.
I find when there are a lot of thors and marauders out, I tend to switch to zerglings but there are so many in this build that I run out of larvae and minerals stack up. I've been toying with throwing down another hatch in my main and just pumping out lings, but I don't know if that'll work. I'd probably get roasted by hellions.
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If i can out expand him, I can win; but that isn't surprising. It is hard though because they can rush out a few hellions and take total map control, forcing you to leave your roaches at home for defence.
At that point you are now trying to figure out if you should be spamming roaches or rushing hydra. if you choose wrong it's pretty much over in the next couple minutes due to either banshees or the marauder, thor, hellion push.
so you have to sac on overlord into his base as soon as you see hellions and try to spot more rax, an armory and tech lab factory, or the starports.
spore colonies should always be put down if you are blind, but it is hard to cover everything. so if the hydra den isn't down and you lose the queen you are going to take damage. problem is if you are going for hydras and it turns out he was doing marauder thor, you are pretty much boned.
then, if you manage to survive the early game, you still have to secure a third to secure a win. although i've had some success with 2 base brood lord.
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now they are coming out way earlier
Thors are just coming 15s earlier than previously, it is just that people tend to tech faster to them. What is important to know is that if someone techs hards to Thor, he has a very bad army (only marines almost), so it is easily rushable by a banneling/Zergling. Moreover, T tend to lift off the first barack after making a tech lab, so that the factory gets to thor even faster. If you spot this (sacrifice some zerglings to this), you can destroy the factory that is in front of the wall (since the barrack was in front of the wall). It has 1250 HP I think so you have to send quite a lot of bannelings, but well, if you kill it, it's GG... He would have teched for this for nothing and have something like 6-10 marines?
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Ok ill just say tha.t first off i don't have a beta, but while were theorycrafting.... I personallly wonder if the infestor can still be utilized with out being sniped. If this is mid to early game its possible that the terren don't have a medivac because the gas cost. On some maps wouldn't it be possible to drop and couple of infestors on some high ground. In a good position to face the terren army and then use the MC abiliy to wreck havoc with the thors? The best part is they can't shoot you back if they don't have vision up the cliff and if they have a medicvac you can either snipe it with hydras... OR MC that first. Again no beta key but it could be possible if played right.
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On April 12 2010 08:04 jaybrundage wrote:
Ok ill just say tha.t first off i don't have a beta, but while were theorycrafting.... I personallly wonder if the infestor can still be utilized with out being sniped. If this is mid to early game its possible that the terren don't have a medivac because the gas cost. On some maps wouldn't it be possible to drop and couple of infestors on some high ground. In a good position to face the terren army and then use the MC abiliy to wreck havoc with the thors? The best part is they can't shoot you back if they don't have vision up the cliff and if they have a medicvac you can either snipe it with hydras... OR MC that first. Again no beta key but it could be possible if played right.
I've managed to grab a thor from a cliff a few times, and it's always hillarious.
Then they comsat and the infestor dies, and I frown.
It's still funny for the few seconds where you know they are like "wtf is going on".
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Seems like people are complaining about infestors being to gas heavy to build vs this, and then I want to say that if you cant sacrifice a few hydras for those important infestors, then you dont deserve to win. Its small things like this that make a difference. You can still go mutas if the terran has thors because it makes him stay at his base and defend while you conquer the side of your map. If a good zerg player can control his mutas and send them to right places for harassment, then he can delay the terran attack for ages.
Zerg fighting Terran in sc2 is almost like Zerg fighting Protoss in brood war, you cant just clash in one battle and hope to win. You have to take down the army piece by piece.
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go roach hydra infestor after you get muta.
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On April 09 2010 01:24 BlasiuS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 13:04 Butigroove wrote:
Roach/Hydra/Baneling/Infestor does pretty well. Just outmacro him, and use 5 or 6 overlords to drop the banes on him (2 or so in each)
fungal does incredbly well vs this army because of reduced healing (not as many/no meds for helions) hm let's see, thor has 400 health, banelings do 20 damage to thors...that's 20 banelings just to kill 1 thor. And thors are so big you won't be doing any baneling splash if you target thors. That's 1000/500 resources worth of banelings to kill a 300/200 cost thor....total fail. Similar story against marauders...it takes 7 banelings to kill 1 marauder. That's 350/175 resources worth of banelings to kill a 100/25 cost marauder...total fail again. They're only cost-effective vs. hellion. You are seriously going to try and drop banelings in the middle of a thor/marauder/hellion blob and try to snipe the hellions (one of the fastest units in the game btw)? No. Banelings should not be used against a hellion/marauder/thor army, or really any mech army. Stick with roaches, you will force terran to get marauders, which will be an expensive transition if he opened with mech.
uh
youre terrible at math son banelings do splash damage, and if dropped with overlords while the rest of your army is engaging almsot always hit (on the maurader ball, because your army is mostly roaches, which wreck thor//helion). , if you spread the banes out they drop all at the same time and kill stuff. extra points if you drop right after stim, and his army jsut dies and you win the game straight out splash damage is REALLY good in sc2, you should try playing it sometime instead of adding up numbers wrong.
and before you go talking bout overlords dying thors splash is still small and overlords are bulky and spread out when you move them right. neither mauraders or helion can shoot air.
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T simpy get more bang for the buck, the only way to beat this strat is to be a superiour player.
Harass, outmacro etc. But you wont get away with that unless you are a better player.
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On April 09 2010 07:31 Chill wrote:
This thread seems to me kind of like asking "How do I beat Templar/Colossus/Sentry?". Like there's not going to be one unit that crushes it, you just need to control the game enough that he doesn't get this perfect blob of units. If he does get it, you need to deny expansions and then crash the army over and over until you whittle it down.
This, seriously use active strategies to disturb him in early mid game, if he goes for defence safe expand play go for double exp possiby for rich field and then you can use mass roachs or baneling+roach. If you let terran to have that kind of an army than all you can do is to hit and run strategies to his base or mineral lines to keep him in base.
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i play terran only, but i suggest you doing this on mech:
mass ROACHES - they go first, on front line
mass LINGS - try micro them away from helions, flank
some HYDRAS - if he gets more marauders, less helions, then do more hydras
some BROODLORDS - really annoying and completely screw Thors AI (he shoots at broodlings...)
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On April 08 2010 13:19 Antpile wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 13:04 Butigroove wrote:
Roach/Hydra/Baneling/Infestor does pretty well. Just outmacro him, and use 5 or 6 overlords to drop the banes on him (2 or so in each)
fungal does incredbly well vs this army because of reduced healing (not as many/no meds for helions) Banelings eh? Are you suggesting to use them to try and counter the hellions, or to just drop them in the middle of everything in general?
banelings absolutely evaporate hellions. i didn't think it would work at first but one time someone pushed my roach/baneling army and they were all gone before my roaches could get off their first volley. it's pretty epic to watch. Also dropping them on the mineral line is really really really super cool, and if T doesn't see you going mutas, he usually never has missile turrets or anything around his minerals
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I cant see why they gave Thors the air buff, Terran is already one of the strongest races against air, with BC, stimed Marines, and Turrets (not to mention Vikings). I guess they will either do something to Terran or Zerg next patch as it is obvious that Terran is a bit OP against Zerg now. I am not saying they are unbeatable but it requires ALOT more effort from Z's side, atleast if T knows how to harass properly.
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EPT
