|
On April 07 2010 12:51 t3hw0lf wrote:
Ultras crack bases. That is what they do. Make BLs / Mutas / Corruptors destroy the army, and roll w/ 5 ultras and wreck a base in 20 seconds.
You can wreck a base with 10 marauders or 3 immortals in 20 seconds as well.
Why would I get hive, ultra, infestors, upgrades all for a simple unit that gets easily blocked by a mere poor ling/rine or zealot? Killing a single rine takes 3 shots, so why would I get an ultra that cant even get to the army? Getting creep all over the map to make a unit viable isnt really that practical...
Seriously, as long as the ultralisks sucks ass when it comes to getting to a target, it wont be used. And guess how it never gets to a target? Cuz its pathing is so easily interrupted by units. Make them smaller or allow them to walk over stupid rines/lings/supply depots.
|
The ultra does AoE I don't know what you're complaining about... it's a counter to opponents doing small units like zealot/sentry or marine/marauder.
|
Russian Federation81 Posts
despite of both players having 100 apm average this replay is not good. asolutely poor macro by zerg combined with no scouting at all, very small bio-ball of terran..
but well, yeah, its proves something - if ultras get close they can do some good splashy damage!
|
i say just increased the range of their AoE a little bit
|
On April 08 2010 00:35 -orb- wrote:
The ultra does AoE I don't know what you're complaining about... it's a counter to opponents doing small units like zealot/sentry or marine/marauder.
Ultras counter zealots, sentries, marines, and zerglings fantastically.
They can barely scratch maruaders.
|
On April 08 2010 00:35 -orb- wrote:
The ultra does AoE I don't know what you're complaining about... it's a counter to opponents doing small units like zealot/sentry or marine/marauder.
If ultra is a counter to marauder. Then either ultra suck, or marauder are really good.
And I wouldnt say ultra own sentries as a sentry does a simple force field and the ultra with its crappy movement moves very slowly around the force field, meanwhile the sentry has fled the scene.
Also, I am not complaining about the damage of the ultra, im complaining about that the ultra can never get to its target in combination with other units or even with other units. Because its so damn huge it cant move anywhere in a normal manner. Why can colossus walk over the small units of toss? But why can't ultras? I swear that if the ultras could move just as freely (except for cliffwalk) like a colossus they will be worth the money.
|
well just what i read on the 1st/5th page idk if this has been suggested..but maybe like make it a neutral armor(so marauders/immortals/roaches(i think?) cant rape the fuck out of it. and to make up for its slow walking speed give it a charge ability, the scariest part of bw ultras were once they got the speed upgrade they would charge in and rape the unholy fuck out of you, bring that back but maybe in an ability form?
|
On April 08 2010 01:37 Koffiegast wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 00:35 -orb- wrote:
The ultra does AoE I don't know what you're complaining about... it's a counter to opponents doing small units like zealot/sentry or marine/marauder. If ultra is a counter to marauder. Then either ultra suck, or marauder are really good. And I wouldnt say ultra own sentries as a sentry does a simple force field and the ultra with its crappy movement moves very slowly around the force field, meanwhile the sentry has fled the scene. Also, I am not complaining about the damage of the ultra, im complaining about that the ultra can never get to its target in combination with other units or even with other units. Because its so damn huge it cant move anywhere in a normal manner. Why can colossus walk over the small units of toss? But why can't ultras? I swear that if the ultras could move just as freely (except for cliffwalk) like a colossus they will be worth the money.
This... why can't lings (any small unit) walk under the ultralisk????
|
The worst thing about it is its mobility imo. It has been buffed to 600hp to still be affective like a tank against immortals/marauders. However, units in SC2 are MUCH more mobile than in BW. As far as I can remember, Upgraded Ultralisk speed were (almost)= Upgraded Ling speed in BW. If it's not the same in SC2 (no beta key =(), it could get buffed.
|
they should just cost 4 population lol, broodlords only require 2
|
Increase Ultra's range for sure.
|
maybe they'll add upgrades to the ultra later to actually make it useful like they did going from starcraft->broodwar lol
|
Ultras are a joke. Anybody that wins with them could have won 4 minutes earlier with broodlords.
|
ultralisks should have the adrenal glands upgrade. THEN it will really be a big zergling.
|
You guys really need to learn how to play with ultra...
If i Remember... Ultra does AOE damage no ? Really good counter on small unit like MM or Zealot or mass ling hydra or even roach
+
Added with roach and hydra and Infestor... its a killing machine... he can tank so many hit.. with only the +2 upgrade and maybe a +1 in D that you would have anyway that far in the game...
Vs MMMT its perfect... you freeze the unit with infestor... hydra and roach kill and ultra tank + does damage.... Vs photon cannon or bunker.. its magic... I faced over 10 canon with 3-4 ultralisk... and they could survive the fight.. (2+1 upgrade)
Ultralisk is underused... but its still really good imo
Btw: Im plat 30 in 1v1 and it works hard with ultra...
if the other player dont go with the hard counter... he just get own by the best tank in the game while the support or damage dealer does all the others things...
I dont say that Ultra dont need a buff... a little one could be good... but they dont need THAT much...
++
If you do the math... Ultra is good replacement for roach
roach = 75 min 25 gas 145 hp
ultra = 300 - 200 600 hp + more damage then roach + cant be slowed + aoe damage...
Roach x 5 = 375 min 125 gas 725 hp
You can almost get the same stat from 5 roach.. but they dont have the ability the Ultra got... and its really easy to get a +2 armor upgrade that cost only 150 - 150
|
I normally just lurk here and don't post, but I had an idea. Feel free to shoot me down, I'm not the most knowledgeable person ever on this subject.
After reading through this, I kind of liked the charge idea, as well as the colossus-like pathing, so that units could move under it. Anyway, maybe something like a targeted charge+aoe stun for around the amount of time it takes for the charge (a second or less, a bit like a warrior's charge for anyone who has played WoW). Give the overlord 75 energy, and have the ability cost 50 energy. Instead of a speed upgrade, give an upgrade for +25 energy. If you stagger the ability, mix with infestors-speedlings, it could be interesting.
To balance this, keep the armored type, drop the speed upgrade. Maybe give a slight buff to base armor. I can't see it being used in zvp a lot, but it would punish mmm and probably tanks as well.
Maybe this is completely out-of-place, maybe this would be horribly imbalanced, but to me, at 5:00 AM, it seems conceivable. Thoughts?
Also, I've had some success with them in small numbers, without the armor upgrade to help hunt down the opponent's expos. Their building attack is strong, and a lot of times people overcompensate, building far more immortals or marauders than they probably should. But then again, I'm in Bronze league, their scouting generally isn't wonderful (nor is mine).
|
On April 07 2010 05:32 agorist wrote:
Also, ultra ling seems to suffer because lings block the ultras from even attacking. The ling autosurround goes off so fast that you can't really do much to get ultras to even attack until the lings die.
IMO, the attack should be range like .5 such that it can attack over a ling.
Ultras have a range of 1 they can attack over 2 lings.
Ultras also have fairly significant splash damage so they really do quite a bit of damage.
I honestly would never make them over broodlords mostly because of how crazy strong broodlings are but I think ultraling may turn out to be a fairly viable late game build.
|
the biggest problem with ultras is that roach+hydra need the same ranged attack upgrade. If you want to switch you have to upgrade the meele as well, plus Hivet tech + the 2 upgrades. If the toss knows you're switching you will be dead because he either brakes you when you are weak because of the upgrades and saving money or pulls out 8-10 immortals and owns your ultras.
Against T, if you menaged to survive to Hive tech you're good, congrat! but the weak period is still there, where he can bust you. Still, more viable against T.
|
On April 08 2010 19:36 Yokoblue wrote:
You guys really need to learn how to play with ultra...
If i Remember... Ultra does AOE damage no ? Really good counter on small unit like MM or Zealot or mass ling hydra or even roach
I agree with this... But the problem is Broodlords counter small unit like MM or Zealot or mass ling hydra or even roach, in addition Broodlords can fly and are good peon harass also messes up the AI. They just seem more effective and they don't need two upgrades before they are actually can be useful.
|
I just beat two more gold players last night with ultras, and I only played three games. You guys are really missing out.
The terran went thor/hellion with a smattering of tanks which was the first time I've had to deal with that. I thought if anything would counter ultras, this would. But he went down pretty hard. After the zerglings were dead, I just pulled back the 2 or 3 ultras I had left to my nat, healed them a bit, rerallied a bunch of troops including a couple more ultras and tons of zerglings and went back in. I lost a few ultras during every skirmish, but he lost a lot more thors. That thor special attack is pretty damned good against ultras, but the zerglings are wailing on them while they are stationary. He even had 2-2 upgrades on his mech which were even with my own.
Also I did a test, ultras with and without speed are exactly equivalent to roaches. That's fast enough to escape from anything that would pose any real danger.
The other win was a 2 robo fac protoss. He saw I was going ultra and started building immortals. So I just pulled back my ultras to deal damage to his nat and had a group of zerglings between the immortals and ultras and he couldn't descend down his ramp without losing his immortals. Once the nat was gone, there was no coming back. He also had some collosus earlier which took out my third, but once my ultras started popping, all of his troops got surrounded and died.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
