EPT[D] TvP Mech or Bio? - Page 2
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
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Augury
United States758 Posts
Without vultures+mines/goliaths you can't really go pure mech anymore. | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
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Nightmarjoo
United States3359 Posts
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ShadowDrgn
United States2497 Posts
Am I the only one that finds 1rax cc a safe opening? With constant marine production and a wall, protoss can't break you early. You'll have tanks, a bunker or two, and a planetary fortress if necessary (if you scout no expand) to defend the colossus/immortal + zealot/sentry/stalker attack that protoss loves to do. You can transition into whatever from that point too. I like tanks, but you could probably defend yourself with pure bio and vikings. | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
I'm really curious to see how faster hellions could impact this matchup, now that factory and rax build time is decreased. | ||
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CowGoMoo
United States428 Posts
I think Hellion + Marauder can work pretty well and I might do this more simply because it gives a lot of opportunities to scout and keep the opponent in check. Would play similar to my TvZ build but I would need a Dropship to do effective harassment. My normal mass Marine blob + EMP +Vikings usually results in me hard core turtling and then just pushing out for a big single blow. I uploaded a rep pack if anyone is interested =) http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=586542 (Same link as the 1 I put in the official replay thread) | ||
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
On February 28 2010 14:28 Floophead_III wrote: Yes you can. I do it every game. Why do people say wrong things? upload a replay or something? it's hard to imagine going pure mech is viable right now as protoss can keep up macro-wise with 3 rax cranking constant marine marauder. if you cut units to build an appropriate factory infrastructure (which i'd imagine is around 3 factories as well) it leaves you open for a very long period of time. i suppose you can turtle better with a few siege tanks as opposed to bio but at least with a bio army you can threaten a push whereas a mech push would require a lot longer buildup to be as threatening. at this stage 2-3 colossus + zealot immortal mix seems manageable if you have a lot of bio and dodge colossus swipes like you would with lurker spines. the amount of dps you get with a large amount of bio is just sick and there's almost no way a pure mech army can keep up with protoss mobility right now. | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
i mean it sounds pretty good when you are pushing a protoss who puts his army between your base and his base but what if he goes splits his army with a majority of it at your flank away from his base? how do you push then assuming that you dont have enough units to cover half the map? if you slow push his base you get delayed and / or caught in a massive flank (no mines!), if you unsiege and roll out you get massive flank or backstab (no mines!), if you slow push towards his main army you get delayed while essentially gaining no ground. unless it's a fairly congested map there's no way for you to control protoss unit movement (no mines!) or delay a flank (no mines!) not to mention immortals 3 hit kill just about any terran ground unit other than thor and tank metal like crazy. and you're open to a void ray tech switch (not even a full on switch) 4 of which kill your cc's in about 20 seconds according to another thread. it just seems so vulnerable. also just thinking about how well immortals can tank is making me cringe. it takes at least 10 shots from any unit to just take it's shield down while it's 3 hit killing nearly every terran ground unit. | ||
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Fallen
Canada192 Posts
On February 28 2010 15:38 CowGoMoo wrote: I have never even tried mech in TvP outside of Hellion openings. I think Hellion + Marauder can work pretty well and I might do this more simply because it gives a lot of opportunities to scout and keep the opponent in check. Would play similar to my TvZ build but I would need a Dropship to do effective harassment. My normal mass Marine blob + EMP +Vikings usually results in me hard core turtling and then just pushing out for a big single blow. I uploaded a rep pack if anyone is interested =) http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=586542 (Same link as the 1 I put in the official replay thread) Great replays Cow.. I was struggling against top protoss.. now I have more of an idea. thank you  | ||
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Treeplant
United States214 Posts
On February 28 2010 17:10 Floophead_III wrote: Helions are the one of the fastest ground units in the game. Mech also does massive amounts of splash which means as army sizes go up, your damage output scales exponentially. I'll post up a couple of replays in my own thread to demonstrate BOs and proper mech pushes. I think I have enough to make a legitimate guide. Looking forward to this  | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
On February 28 2010 08:51 OgerAffe wrote: I just played mtwnightend in the ladder and tried a mech strat hellions/thors + ghosts first time, it worked actually pretty well, but i guess he didnt show his a-game and his unitmix was a bit strange. i think if he mixed more immortals in the army i would have died. Watch if u want (and comment!) http://www.file-upload.net/download-2301887/OgerAffevsNightEnd-Thormadness.SC2Replay.html Awesome play ^_^ Did you play SC or War3 before? | ||
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OgerAffe
Germany48 Posts
broodwar yes and dota but i still think mech sucks, i just got rolled from dracos (nearly) immortals only on kulas ravine. i tried a fast expansion 6-8 rines 2 bunker and 2 fax tanks even stopped scv production to hold his attack but bunker and tanks just melt due to the immortals :\ little frustrating to start always with M&M against p  (in other words: boring)if u guys got some awesome tvp reps, up it! Maybe i can hold the siege expand if i completly skip bunkers and pump marines out of a rax with reactor :> i will test it! | ||
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Rothbardian
United States497 Posts
On March 01 2010 04:07 OgerAffe wrote: thanks! broodwar yes and dota but i still think mech sucks, i just got rolled from dracos (nearly) immortals only on kulas ravine. i tried a fast expansion 6-8 rines 2 bunker and 2 fax tanks even stopped scv production to hold his attack but bunker and tanks just melt due to the immortals :\ little frustrating to start always with M&M against p (in other words: boring)if u guys got some awesome tvp reps, up it! Maybe i can hold the siege expand if i completly skip bunkers and pump marines out of a rax with reactor :> i will test it! You don't always have to do that. On Kulas, you can 2 Starport proxy with fast Banshee+Cloak, followed up by Viking. Yes, it is a little cheesy, but I'm just saying you don't always have to open bio. Also Nuke rush isn't bad....and you have a ghost anyways that you need. It keeps them on their toes. By the time you launch the nuke you should have 1-2 siege tanks + bunker with 4-6 marines around 8-8:30 min mark with Dropships. You could always throw in a hellion or two and harass while you nuke, so he has to multitask. I think it has a lot of potential :p (The nuke rush also isn't cheesy as you should have 27-30 SCV with Rax/Fac/SP + Orbital). | ||
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OgerAffe
Germany48 Posts
sure banshees are an option but nukes? come on :> | ||
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Rothbardian
United States497 Posts
On March 01 2010 04:26 OgerAffe wrote: u are not serious are u sure banshees are an option but nukes? come on :> Actually it works quite well...have you tried it? I had one ghost have like 50 kills one game. :p | ||
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OgerAffe
Germany48 Posts
but i stop trying mech starting now, i think i got at least 60 losses out from it, its disgusting tanks are bad against immortals, bad against colossi and bad against zealots mech starting suxx and its not even funny :D MMM+viking ftw. | ||
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OgerAffe
Germany48 Posts
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Rothbardian
United States497 Posts
On March 01 2010 04:45 OgerAffe wrote: nope i didnt but i stop trying mech starting now, i think i got at least 60 losses out from it, its disgusting tanks are bad against immortals, bad against colossi and bad against zealots mech starting suxx and its not even funny :D MMM+viking ftw. Since you have ghost tech all ready, it's actually not bad to hold a ramp. Bunker + Marine + Siege Tank + Ghost is really effective. You have your dropships all ready too, so that opens up harass if they counter attack. They will need to have some type of detection ready, and most don't. When the nuke hits at like 8:30 if you can split their attention its deadly... you are also doing really well economically. You also have the nukes now to hold your ramp too. Lay one of those down and it gives you 30-45seconds extra. They are extremely cheap too, at 100M/G. Other than that I agree with bio in general is stronger, but this is by no means a "mech" build. You have Rax/SP/Fac, and you can then transition to whatever you want and you have your 2 siege tanks as support. You can drop their expo line, or cliff abuse with the tanks, etc. Since you have your ghost out early if they try a quick 6-7 min rush with Immortal you completely decimate it. Something to think about. | ||
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