EPTPvT help: The Marauder Issue - Page 2
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520
United States2822 Posts
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On February 19 2010 03:35 scintilliaSD wrote: Sentries seem like they'd be counterproductive vs. a Terran army as it's entirely ranged. If you block your own Zealots from reaching them, or funnel your Zealots through a hole where they can be focus fired and can only attack one target at a time, isn't that... not good? Using the Sentry gas on a Twilight Council and researching Charge seems like a better idea. Charge is not too good, because Marauders reduce the speed of the units. And marines totally rip through zealots. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
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404.Delirium
United States1190 Posts
On February 19 2010 02:50 zee wrote: Air. If I recall correctly that would mean Protoss would have to get Void Rays to handle small units (not ideal) or Carriers. So air isn't the best option. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On February 19 2010 03:36 G.s)NarutO wrote: Charge is not too good, because Marauders reduce the speed of the units. And marines totally rip through zealots. On the contrary, Charge is great precisely because Marauders reduce the speed of units. Getting to melee would be a royal pain without Charge. Also, Marines will definitely not rip through Zealots protected by a Sentry's Guardian Shield. If your armor upgrades are on par with the Terrans' attack upgrades, marines will only deal 3 points of damage per attack on a Zealot's health when protected by Guardian Shield- the same amount of damage fully-upgraded Ultralisks take from Marines in SC1. Colossi might work vs. Marauders too, but I'm guessing they should be much more effective if they have the Extended Thermal Lances upgrade to outrange Marauders while having Zealots tanking for them. Otherwise, Marauders won't have a very hard time sniping a colossus or two. | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On February 19 2010 04:24 Zato-1 wrote: On the contrary, Charge is great precisely because Marauders reduce the speed of units. Getting to melee would be a royal pain without Charge. Also, Marines will definitely not rip through Zealots protected by a Sentry's Guardian Shield. If your armor upgrades are on par with the Terrans' attack upgrades, marines will only deal 3 points of damage per attack on a Zealot's health when protected by Guardian Shield- the same amount of damage fully-upgraded Ultralisks take from Marines in SC1. Colossi might work vs. Marauders too, but I'm guessing they should be much more effective if they have the Extended Thermal Lances upgrade to outrange Marauders while having Zealots tanking for them. Otherwise, Marauders won't have a very hard time sniping a colossus or two. Marine/Marauder is an army you can get really early. Zealot with charge / Sentry / Colossi is not.. ^^ | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On February 19 2010 04:47 G.s)NarutO wrote: Marine/Marauder is an army you can get really early. Zealot with charge / Sentry / Colossi is not.. ^^ I know. Colossus is for later on in the game, if the Terran persists in making more and more Marauders. Zealots and Sentries you can definitely get in time to deal with Marine/Marauder, though. They're also enough to deal with an early threat of this kind. | ||
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Cokephone
United States27 Posts
i.e if I have 2 sentries each with missile shield up, overlapping a group of zealots from either side... is it still just -2 reduction? Or 4? I also think late-game wise... Archons merged from DT might be a decent option. They do tons of damage vs biological, and I totally forgot about 'em. | ||
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nimbim
Germany983 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On February 19 2010 05:20 Cokephone wrote: Do we know if the sentry bonus stacks? i.e if I have 2 sentries each with missile shield up, overlapping a group of zealots from either side... is it still just -2 reduction? Or 4? I also think late-game wise... Archons merged from DT might be a decent option. They do tons of damage vs biological, and I totally forgot about 'em. I haven't tested it myself, but I'm still highly confident that it doesn't stack. Confirmation would be nice, though. Archons vs. Terrans will suffer from the same problem it suffered in Brood Wars: Archons are big, slow, expensive, short-ranged and low-armor units which make them a tasty target for the Terran pew pew squad. Add in a Marauder to slow them down and you make Archons cry. On the plus side, Archons have armor type Light, so they won't take too much damage from Mass Marauder. However... I just don't see Archons getting close enough to be effective against... well, anything Terran in sufficient numbers. Marines will rape them, Marauders will rape them, Reapers will rape them, Hellions will rape them, and probably even Vikings when in walker mode. Even Banshees should do well enough vs. Archons if you don't let them get close, thanks to their long attack range. The only Terran unit I can see the Archon getting close to and smacking around is the SCV, unless you had large numbers of Archons and could withstand losing several of them in the process of getting close enough to attack. | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On February 19 2010 02:09 G.s)NarutO wrote: As Terran I can say Marine/Marauder rape shit. If you add Nukes or Reaperraids, Protoss is fucked. Big Zealot/Templar/Stalker/Immortal armies should work, but Marauder/Marine and if terran is serious and adds 12 medivacs you are down. All terran players, I command you to trick David Kim into choosing Toss as his race then versing him as terran and pawning him with this! I'm sorry Protoss brethren, but this "David Kim" must be annihilated before the zerg can get a chance to infest him and make David Kim and Kerrigan merry! If that is accomplished the zerg will become unstoppable! | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5415 Posts
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fanta[Rn]
Japan2465 Posts
My transition from opening to mid kind of sucks. I'd think storms + support works best | ||
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ShadowDrgn
United States2497 Posts
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Cokephone
United States27 Posts
I've found that early game, a purely zealot army with the sentry's ranged shield really do an alright job of stopping the first push. Timing is weird on it, though. Sometimes I'll have +1 attack and charge ready, sometimes I won't. I haven't been getting MURDERED, though. Mid-game, I've changed my mind about colossi. They burn through marauders if their range is upgraded. If not, they're just big big targets. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On February 19 2010 12:32 SoleSteeler wrote: Are you losing PvT early game? Because I don't think I've won TvP past maybe one or two early placement games. Marauders/medivac/marines losing to Stalker/Zealot/Sentry pretty easily for some reason! Closest I came to winning was marauder/med/tank... Tanks do pretty well still thank god, but mid-game Colossus are so tough to stop. You might want to try using Vikings against an enemy Colossus. Since Colossi can be hit by anti-air attacks, Vikings can hit them while airborne, which means an enemy Colossus can't hit the Vikings back. With the long range on the Viking's air-to-air missiles and bonus damage vs. Armored units, they seem like a good tool for the task, at least on paper. | ||
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
i would upload it but i dont know where it's saved :D found rep! [url blocked] directions to sc2 rep folder: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=112758 | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On February 19 2010 20:33 mahnini wrote: i think immortals are the key to beating marauders they do sick damage vs marauders and marines and they dont seem too inaccessible. early game pvt seems like a complete role reversal from sc1 where terran has map control and mobility early game. i'm thinking if you can find the critical mass of immortal/zealot you can contend quite easily. i have a rep where some guy went 1 gate dual robo immortal and did pretty well vs 3rax xxc addons constantly pumping marauders/rines. i think the main difficulty is dealing with the slow down they have vs zealots but making immortals gives a higher priority target (for the player i dont know about the AI) so you either target the immortals and get rolled on by zealots or target the zealots and get blasted on by immortals. Let me nitpick a few points here: - Immortals do WAY more damage vs. Marauders than they do against Marines (they deal 20 damage per shot, +30 vs. Armored targets). I doubt many people would contend that Immortals' damage vs. Marauders is pretty sick, but against Marines? Not really. It takes a Zealot 9 hits to kill a Marauder. It takes an Immortal 3 shots to kill a Marauder. It takes a Zealot 3 hits to kill a Marine. It takes an Immortal 3 shots to kill a Marine. (note that this makes some assumptions on upgrades, those numbers will vary in the Immortal's favor with higher upgrade levels) - Immortals are cool, but they're a midgame unit. They can't save you from an early M&M push. - Be careful to scout the Terran's base if you choose to go Zealot / Immortal. As it is a strictly ground-to-ground army, getting caught off-guard by a bunch of Banshees could turn really ugly really fast. | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
You scout the terran early? STEAL ONE OF HIS GYSERS! I played a game vs a protoss last night and he caught me totally off guard stealing one of my gysers. I was like "w/e I've got one already, it won't slow me down that much..." WRONG, lol. Seriously, taking a gas will really hinder his ability to transition after that M&M army. Or I could just be bad, but who knows, lol. Try it! | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On February 20 2010 01:48 Haemonculus wrote: Hmmm, I've been primarily playing terran, but have you guys considered one of your old tricks from BW? You scout the terran early? STEAL ONE OF HIS GYSERS! I played a game vs a protoss last night and he caught me totally off guard stealing one of my gysers. I was like "w/e I've got one already, it won't slow me down that much..." WRONG, lol. Seriously, taking a gas will really hinder his ability to transition after that M&M army. Or I could just be bad, but who knows, lol. Try it! Most Protoss don't survive the M&M. And you can destroy the geysir before you move out..? | ||
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