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I'm getting my ass handed to me too often in PvT, mainly against huge marauder armies.
Just wondering if any baller 'Toss player has found a solid answer to them, yet, especially when they're coupled with other units.
Stalkers get raped by them, as do zealots (even with charge, it seems). Colossi seem to be an option, but they're super expensive and you'd need 3 or 4 before you could really put a dent in them.
I tried void rays one game, which worked for a little... until he got about 8 marines and raped all of them.
Psi storm SHOULD like the best option... but stimmed marauders don't die as fast as 40 HP marines to it, and they can often dodge most of the damage.
I'm unsure if the immortals hardened shields activate on marauder shots... as they do 10 damage, right on the cutoff? If so, they might be the most solid option??
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what's the unit that would replace reaver? is that colossi?
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10 damage is full damage to immortals unfortunately. I'm guessing mass storms and cutting them off might work out. If you could get some zealots behind his army...
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United States2822 Posts
The Zatic build, or any Marine Marauder strategy, is very hard to deal with as Protoss. The build is very mineral intensive though, so Dark Templar may work as many Terrans will eschew the Orbital Command, or if they get it, use the energy on a MULE instead of a Scanner Sweep. I'm not sure how the timings work for that though.
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I dont have beta but i can see a number of situational strategies working.
Try to lay down some forcefields to block his retreat while laying down storms or sending in zealots.
Also, colossi and zealots with the disruptor guardian shield sounds good (-2 damage per shot i think) so those marauders are just going to have a harder time of it.
Immortals might take 10 damage from marauders, but with guardian shield, they would take 8, and also, they dish back 50 a shot at a decent attack rate (from what ive seen in videos). Marauders would be fucked esp. with decent support.
Cant help you with specifics, but you might think about those.
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I've had the most problems dealing with well timed DTs
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As Terran I can say Marine/Marauder rape shit. If you add Nukes or Reaperraids, Protoss is fucked. Big Zealot/Templar/Stalker/Immortal armies should work, but Marauder/Marine and if terran is serious and adds 12 medivacs you are down.
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On February 19 2010 01:58 emikochan wrote:
10 damage is full damage to immortals unfortunately. I'm guessing mass storms and cutting them off might work out. If you could get some zealots behind his army...
Marauder do 10 base damage, +10 vs heavy armor. Is the immortal heavy armored? ^^
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On February 19 2010 02:01 scintilliaSD wrote:
The Zatic build, or any Marine Marauder strategy, is very hard to deal with as Protoss. The build is very mineral intensive though, so Dark Templar may work as many Terrans will eschew the Orbital Command, or if they get it, use the energy on a MULE instead of a Scanner Sweep. I'm not sure how the timings work for that though.
As Terran I usually go:
Supply -> Rax -> Gas -> Rax - Supply -> 1 Rax with reactor, 1 with tech lab.
Then you build up a few marines/marauders and expand. You can go up to 4 Rax with reactor and 3 with tech lab to build MASSIVE amounts of marauder/marine.
Its insane... its mineral heavy yes, but you can easily support it. I sense that it will be nerfed oo;
Edit: lol fuck it, tripple post-____-
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I can't imagine any large ground based army is a threat when you have Sentries (name?) with Force Field thingy.
Obv it sounds like Terran ball goes for contain/game, so I would think just try turtling until you get mass storm or something.
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i agree, maruders are so tough
oot> do any protoss players have problems with anti air?
i had the hardest time just killing 4 mutalisks
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Anyone tried immortals or are they too expensive?
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On February 19 2010 01:55 Cokephone wrote:
I'm getting my ass handed to me too often in PvT, mainly against huge marauder armies.
Just wondering if any baller 'Toss player has found a solid answer to them, yet, especially when they're coupled with other units.
Stalkers get raped by them, as do zealots (even with charge, it seems). Colossi seem to be an option, but they're super expensive and you'd need 3 or 4 before you could really put a dent in them.
I tried void rays one game, which worked for a little... until he got about 8 marines and raped all of them.
Psi storm SHOULD like the best option... but stimmed marauders don't die as fast as 40 HP marines to it, and they can often dodge most of the damage.
I'm unsure if the immortals hardened shields activate on marauder shots... as they do 10 damage, right on the cutoff? If so, they might be the most solid option??
Ok, let's start from the beginning. Marauder shots do NOT do 10 damage, depending on the target they're hitting. If you have any doubts as to the specific stats of a unit, check out http://www.sc2armory.com/
Once you realize that marauders do 10 damage (+10 vs. armored), you can see that they'll hit stalkers much harder than zealots (who have armor type light and therefore only take 10 damage total) and Immortals (who will only take 10 damage per shot as long as their shields last, thanks to Hardened Shields).
Zealots should easily overpower a resource-equivalent Marauder force, if they have Charge and unless the Marauders have a huge tactical advantage (i.e. fighting on a choke point so only a few zealots can attack at any given time). Stalkers are a decent unit to make, as they deal bonus damage vs. Armored units like the Marauder, but only if Zealots are tanking for them. Bringing along a Sentry or three for their Guardian Shield ability can't hurt either, making Zealots significantly tougher to Marauder fire (assuming +1 attack upgrade on the Marauders, this will reduce damage taken from 11 to 9 on psi shields, and from 10 to 8 on the Zealot's health).
A zealot-oriented army should crush Marauders until they get to really large numbers and form a huge ball. If that happens, Psi Storm is your best friend. Make sure to have 3+ psi storms available, because one storm (80 damage) is not enough to kill any marauders (125 health), and two are still insufficient if the Terran does a decent job of dodging the storms.
I am making these suggestions without ever having played any version of Starcraft 2, and yet I'm confident they will work. Such is the power of looking at unit stats 
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Blink Rush + 3 zealots has worked vs. every Terran so far. You need to rush to keep them busy defending. Don't try and be cute with using later tier armies.... instead use the sentry's (only get 1 maybe 2) to block passageways so your stalkers can deal the most damage and you can reinforce quickly. Keep pylons at a close distance to your chokes to utilize warp gate as well. Maybe even make a couple of photon cannons. God I just want to play is it 4 PM yet? >:O
And for the love of god MAKE UP TO 3 GATEWAYS ON 1 BASE... you can macro correctly like this!
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i suggest keeping 1-2 sentries with your army at all times. the shield it can cast (-2dmg to all units affected) works wonders. they helped me win some early game battles at least
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I wish I would have played players that were competetent, I havent had trouble v anything yet
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Thanks boys. I'll see what I can do. I totally forgot about sentries... it should make zealots do a decent job. Hopefully.
So weird that PvT functions so differently from SC1. Terran seem like the aggressors, now. FLIPPED THE SCRIPT, DID THEY?!
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On February 19 2010 03:02 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Blink Rush + 3 zealots has worked vs. every Terran so far. You need to rush to keep them busy defending. Don't try and be cute with using later tier armies.... instead use the sentry's (only get 1 maybe 2) to block passageways so your stalkers can deal the most damage and you can reinforce quickly. Keep pylons at a close distance to your chokes to utilize warp gate as well. Maybe even make a couple of photon cannons. God I just want to play is it 4 PM yet? >:O
And for the love of god MAKE UP TO 3 GATEWAYS ON 1 BASE... you can macro correctly like this!
No one tried that vs me, but my build usually defends of all early rushes. I get marines / marauders early, and to be save you can expand with a bunker, not much Protoss can do.
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United States2822 Posts
Sentries seem like they'd be counterproductive vs. a Terran army as it's entirely ranged. If you block your own Zealots from reaching them, or funnel your Zealots through a hole where they can be focus fired and can only attack one target at a time, isn't that... not good? Using the Sentry gas on a Twilight Council and researching Charge seems like a better idea.
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On February 19 2010 03:35 scintilliaSD wrote:
Sentries seem like they'd be counterproductive vs. a Terran army as it's entirely ranged. If you block your own Zealots from reaching them, or funnel your Zealots through a hole where they can be focus fired and can only attack one target at a time, isn't that... not good? Using the Sentry gas on a Twilight Council and researching Charge seems like a better idea.
Charge is not too good, because Marauders reduce the speed of the units. And marines totally rip through zealots.
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Sweden33719 Posts
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On February 19 2010 02:50 zee wrote:
Air.
If I recall correctly that would mean Protoss would have to get Void Rays to handle small units (not ideal) or Carriers. So air isn't the best option.
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On February 19 2010 03:36 G.s)NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2010 03:35 scintilliaSD wrote:
Sentries seem like they'd be counterproductive vs. a Terran army as it's entirely ranged. If you block your own Zealots from reaching them, or funnel your Zealots through a hole where they can be focus fired and can only attack one target at a time, isn't that... not good? Using the Sentry gas on a Twilight Council and researching Charge seems like a better idea. Charge is not too good, because Marauders reduce the speed of the units. And marines totally rip through zealots.
On the contrary, Charge is great precisely because Marauders reduce the speed of units. Getting to melee would be a royal pain without Charge.
Also, Marines will definitely not rip through Zealots protected by a Sentry's Guardian Shield. If your armor upgrades are on par with the Terrans' attack upgrades, marines will only deal 3 points of damage per attack on a Zealot's health when protected by Guardian Shield- the same amount of damage fully-upgraded Ultralisks take from Marines in SC1.
Colossi might work vs. Marauders too, but I'm guessing they should be much more effective if they have the Extended Thermal Lances upgrade to outrange Marauders while having Zealots tanking for them. Otherwise, Marauders won't have a very hard time sniping a colossus or two.
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On February 19 2010 04:24 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2010 03:36 G.s)NarutO wrote:On February 19 2010 03:35 scintilliaSD wrote:
Sentries seem like they'd be counterproductive vs. a Terran army as it's entirely ranged. If you block your own Zealots from reaching them, or funnel your Zealots through a hole where they can be focus fired and can only attack one target at a time, isn't that... not good? Using the Sentry gas on a Twilight Council and researching Charge seems like a better idea. Charge is not too good, because Marauders reduce the speed of the units. And marines totally rip through zealots. On the contrary, Charge is great precisely because Marauders reduce the speed of units. Getting to melee would be a royal pain without Charge. Also, Marines will definitely not rip through Zealots protected by a Sentry's Guardian Shield. If your armor upgrades are on par with the Terrans' attack upgrades, marines will only deal 3 points of damage per attack on a Zealot's health when protected by Guardian Shield- the same amount of damage fully-upgraded Ultralisks take from Marines in SC1. Colossi might work vs. Marauders too, but I'm guessing they should be much more effective if they have the Extended Thermal Lances upgrade to outrange Marauders while having Zealots tanking for them. Otherwise, Marauders won't have a very hard time sniping a colossus or two.
Marine/Marauder is an army you can get really early. Zealot with charge / Sentry / Colossi is not.. ^^
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On February 19 2010 04:47 G.s)NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2010 04:24 Zato-1 wrote:On February 19 2010 03:36 G.s)NarutO wrote:On February 19 2010 03:35 scintilliaSD wrote:
Sentries seem like they'd be counterproductive vs. a Terran army as it's entirely ranged. If you block your own Zealots from reaching them, or funnel your Zealots through a hole where they can be focus fired and can only attack one target at a time, isn't that... not good? Using the Sentry gas on a Twilight Council and researching Charge seems like a better idea. Charge is not too good, because Marauders reduce the speed of the units. And marines totally rip through zealots. On the contrary, Charge is great precisely because Marauders reduce the speed of units. Getting to melee would be a royal pain without Charge. Also, Marines will definitely not rip through Zealots protected by a Sentry's Guardian Shield. If your armor upgrades are on par with the Terrans' attack upgrades, marines will only deal 3 points of damage per attack on a Zealot's health when protected by Guardian Shield- the same amount of damage fully-upgraded Ultralisks take from Marines in SC1. Colossi might work vs. Marauders too, but I'm guessing they should be much more effective if they have the Extended Thermal Lances upgrade to outrange Marauders while having Zealots tanking for them. Otherwise, Marauders won't have a very hard time sniping a colossus or two. Marine/Marauder is an army you can get really early. Zealot with charge / Sentry / Colossi is not.. ^^
I know. Colossus is for later on in the game, if the Terran persists in making more and more Marauders.
Zealots and Sentries you can definitely get in time to deal with Marine/Marauder, though. They're also enough to deal with an early threat of this kind.
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Do we know if the sentry bonus stacks?
i.e if I have 2 sentries each with missile shield up, overlapping a group of zealots from either side... is it still just -2 reduction?
Or 4?
I also think late-game wise... Archons merged from DT might be a decent option. They do tons of damage vs biological, and I totally forgot about 'em.
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i dont think it stacks, that way one would simply get 5sentries along and fight with invulnerable units for 15sec
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On February 19 2010 05:20 Cokephone wrote:
Do we know if the sentry bonus stacks?
i.e if I have 2 sentries each with missile shield up, overlapping a group of zealots from either side... is it still just -2 reduction?
Or 4?
I also think late-game wise... Archons merged from DT might be a decent option. They do tons of damage vs biological, and I totally forgot about 'em.
I haven't tested it myself, but I'm still highly confident that it doesn't stack. Confirmation would be nice, though.
Archons vs. Terrans will suffer from the same problem it suffered in Brood Wars: Archons are big, slow, expensive, short-ranged and low-armor units which make them a tasty target for the Terran pew pew squad. Add in a Marauder to slow them down and you make Archons cry.
On the plus side, Archons have armor type Light, so they won't take too much damage from Mass Marauder. However... I just don't see Archons getting close enough to be effective against... well, anything Terran in sufficient numbers. Marines will rape them, Marauders will rape them, Reapers will rape them, Hellions will rape them, and probably even Vikings when in walker mode. Even Banshees should do well enough vs. Archons if you don't let them get close, thanks to their long attack range.
The only Terran unit I can see the Archon getting close to and smacking around is the SCV, unless you had large numbers of Archons and could withstand losing several of them in the process of getting close enough to attack.
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On February 19 2010 02:09 G.s)NarutO wrote:
As Terran I can say Marine/Marauder rape shit. If you add Nukes or Reaperraids, Protoss is fucked. Big Zealot/Templar/Stalker/Immortal armies should work, but Marauder/Marine and if terran is serious and adds 12 medivacs you are down.
All terran players, I command you to trick David Kim into choosing Toss as his race then versing him as terran and pawning him with this! I'm sorry Protoss brethren, but this "David Kim" must be annihilated before the zerg can get a chance to infest him and make David Kim and Kerrigan merry! If that is accomplished the zerg will become unstoppable!
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Are you losing PvT early game? Because I don't think I've won TvP past maybe one or two early placement games. Marauders/medivac/marines losing to Stalker/Zealot/Sentry pretty easily for some reason! Closest I came to winning was marauder/med/tank... Tanks do pretty well still thank god, but mid-game Colossus are so tough to stop.
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I got my ass handed over to me by psi storms, I didn't have stimpacks though.
My transition from opening to mid kind of sucks.
I'd think storms + support works best
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Terran is the new Protoss. Protoss has all these units and abilities to micro; Terran builds a ton of marine marauder and a-moves with stim. I've been playing mostly 2v2 so no one's teched up to templar, but I imagine ghosts would be a good counter. They're 200 gas, templar are 150 so close enough to make them 1:1 if needed, but 1 ghost is likely able to EMP multiple templar unless the toss does a good job of spreading them.
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After playing some more...
I've found that early game, a purely zealot army with the sentry's ranged shield really do an alright job of stopping the first push. Timing is weird on it, though. Sometimes I'll have +1 attack and charge ready, sometimes I won't. I haven't been getting MURDERED, though.
Mid-game, I've changed my mind about colossi. They burn through marauders if their range is upgraded. If not, they're just big big targets.
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On February 19 2010 12:32 SoleSteeler wrote:
Are you losing PvT early game? Because I don't think I've won TvP past maybe one or two early placement games. Marauders/medivac/marines losing to Stalker/Zealot/Sentry pretty easily for some reason! Closest I came to winning was marauder/med/tank... Tanks do pretty well still thank god, but mid-game Colossus are so tough to stop.
You might want to try using Vikings against an enemy Colossus. Since Colossi can be hit by anti-air attacks, Vikings can hit them while airborne, which means an enemy Colossus can't hit the Vikings back. With the long range on the Viking's air-to-air missiles and bonus damage vs. Armored units, they seem like a good tool for the task, at least on paper.
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i think immortals are the key to beating marauders they do sick damage vs marauders and marines and they dont seem too inaccessible. early game pvt seems like a complete role reversal from sc1 where terran has map control and mobility early game. i'm thinking if you can find the critical mass of immortal/zealot you can contend quite easily. i have a rep where some guy went 1 gate dual robo immortal and did pretty well vs 3rax xxc addons constantly pumping marauders/rines. i think the main difficulty is dealing with the slow down they have vs zealots but making immortals gives a higher priority target (for the player i dont know about the AI) so you either target the immortals and get rolled on by zealots or target the zealots and get blasted on by immortals.
i would upload it but i dont know where it's saved :D
found rep!
[url blocked]
directions to sc2 rep folder:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=112758
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On February 19 2010 20:33 mahnini wrote:
i think immortals are the key to beating marauders they do sick damage vs marauders and marines and they dont seem too inaccessible. early game pvt seems like a complete role reversal from sc1 where terran has map control and mobility early game. i'm thinking if you can find the critical mass of immortal/zealot you can contend quite easily. i have a rep where some guy went 1 gate dual robo immortal and did pretty well vs 3rax xxc addons constantly pumping marauders/rines. i think the main difficulty is dealing with the slow down they have vs zealots but making immortals gives a higher priority target (for the player i dont know about the AI) so you either target the immortals and get rolled on by zealots or target the zealots and get blasted on by immortals.
Let me nitpick a few points here:
- Immortals do WAY more damage vs. Marauders than they do against Marines (they deal 20 damage per shot, +30 vs. Armored targets). I doubt many people would contend that Immortals' damage vs. Marauders is pretty sick, but against Marines? Not really.
It takes a Zealot 9 hits to kill a Marauder.
It takes an Immortal 3 shots to kill a Marauder.
It takes a Zealot 3 hits to kill a Marine.
It takes an Immortal 3 shots to kill a Marine.
(note that this makes some assumptions on upgrades, those numbers will vary in the Immortal's favor with higher upgrade levels)
- Immortals are cool, but they're a midgame unit. They can't save you from an early M&M push.
- Be careful to scout the Terran's base if you choose to go Zealot / Immortal. As it is a strictly ground-to-ground army, getting caught off-guard by a bunch of Banshees could turn really ugly really fast.
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Hmmm, I've been primarily playing terran, but have you guys considered one of your old tricks from BW?
You scout the terran early? STEAL ONE OF HIS GYSERS! I played a game vs a protoss last night and he caught me totally off guard stealing one of my gysers. I was like "w/e I've got one already, it won't slow me down that much..." WRONG, lol. Seriously, taking a gas will really hinder his ability to transition after that M&M army. Or I could just be bad, but who knows, lol.
Try it!
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On February 20 2010 01:48 Haemonculus wrote:
Hmmm, I've been primarily playing terran, but have you guys considered one of your old tricks from BW?
You scout the terran early? STEAL ONE OF HIS GYSERS! I played a game vs a protoss last night and he caught me totally off guard stealing one of my gysers. I was like "w/e I've got one already, it won't slow me down that much..." WRONG, lol. Seriously, taking a gas will really hinder his ability to transition after that M&M army. Or I could just be bad, but who knows, lol.
Try it!
Most Protoss don't survive the M&M. And you can destroy the geysir before you move out..?
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On February 19 2010 02:27 aLt)nirvana wrote:
i agree, maruders are so tough
oot> do any protoss players have problems with anti air?
i had the hardest time just killing 4 mutalisks
I also had some Protoss AA issues. Some folks have said mass stalkers.
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Answer to M/M is sentries.
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On February 20 2010 01:10 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2010 20:33 mahnini wrote:
i think immortals are the key to beating marauders they do sick damage vs marauders and marines and they dont seem too inaccessible. early game pvt seems like a complete role reversal from sc1 where terran has map control and mobility early game. i'm thinking if you can find the critical mass of immortal/zealot you can contend quite easily. i have a rep where some guy went 1 gate dual robo immortal and did pretty well vs 3rax xxc addons constantly pumping marauders/rines. i think the main difficulty is dealing with the slow down they have vs zealots but making immortals gives a higher priority target (for the player i dont know about the AI) so you either target the immortals and get rolled on by zealots or target the zealots and get blasted on by immortals. Let me nitpick a few points here: - Immortals do WAY more damage vs. Marauders than they do against Marines (they deal 20 damage per shot, +30 vs. Armored targets). I doubt many people would contend that Immortals' damage vs. Marauders is pretty sick, but against Marines? Not really. It takes a Zealot 9 hits to kill a Marauder. It takes an Immortal 3 shots to kill a Marauder. It takes a Zealot 3 hits to kill a Marine. It takes an Immortal 3 shots to kill a Marine. (note that this makes some assumptions on upgrades, those numbers will vary in the Immortal's favor with higher upgrade levels) - Immortals are cool, but they're a midgame unit. They can't save you from an early M&M push. - Be careful to scout the Terran's base if you choose to go Zealot / Immortal. As it is a strictly ground-to-ground army, getting caught off-guard by a bunch of Banshees could turn really ugly really fast.
well if you want to put it that way:
it takes a marine 23 hits to kill a zealot
it takes a marine 50 hits to kill an immortal
it takes a marauder 14 hits to kill a zealot
it takes a marauder 15 hits to kill an immortal
looks like you should be winning! 3 hits to kill any barracks unit sounds pretty good to me
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I rarely have any real problems vs marauders. Are you using sentries and spamming guardian + using force fields tactically? Are you getting charge promptly? I defend hardcore stimmed marine/marauder rushes regularly with a mix of zeals, sentries and stalkers. Marauders are armored and stalkers pop them fast as long as they have zeals + guardian around to make them hard to pick off.
Early on just open pylon gas gate pylon core (roughly), using chrono boost intelligently on your nexus. Never use it if you can't dedicated 150 to probes in the next 20 or so seconds. Get 1 zeal to chase their SCV then 3 sentries, while adding 2 more gates. Chrono boost the gate while building the sentries to get them out ASAP so they can start saving energy. Then go 3 gate stalker/zeal, using all your gas on stalkers, until you have about 8, then build a robotics. By this point the T would likely have attacked you either with an early reaper harass, which you'd stop easily with the stalkers, or with a marine/marauder rush, which you can beat back with a little micro + guardian shield.
Once your robo is coming, work in a twilight council asap for charge, get an ob when robo is up, switch to making zeal so you can use gas for charge and immortals and support bay. Keep your robo boosted at all times. After 3-4 immortals start on cols. Replace non-zeal ground units accordingly - you always need 3-4 sentries, and about 1.5 times the zeals you have stalkers (this works for me mostly, though I don't stick to any of these rules precisely).
Usually T will try to expand behind that rush so make an obs first out of robo and watch their base, then make a few immortals, and then start on colossues. They lowered the cost on cols to 200 gas today so they're way faster getting out on 1 base. You can easily 3 gate, chrono boosted robo building cols on 1 base, nonstop, with around 34 probes on minerals.
Anyway... the only really hard pvt I have are when they go marauder/tank. That's tough. You fight it basically the same way, but you have to get more obs and gank them while they move about the map.
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
On February 19 2010 03:02 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Blink Rush + 3 zealots has worked vs. every Terran so far. You need to rush to keep them busy defending. Don't try and be cute with using later tier armies.... instead use the sentry's (only get 1 maybe 2) to block passageways so your stalkers can deal the most damage and you can reinforce quickly. Keep pylons at a close distance to your chokes to utilize warp gate as well. Maybe even make a couple of photon cannons. God I just want to play is it 4 PM yet? >:O
And for the love of god MAKE UP TO 3 GATEWAYS ON 1 BASE... you can macro correctly like this!
replays pls?
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On February 20 2010 09:05 Louder wrote:
I rarely have any real problems vs marauders. Are you using sentries and spamming guardian + using force fields tactically? Are you getting charge promptly? I defend hardcore stimmed marine/marauder rushes regularly with a mix of zeals, sentries and stalkers. Marauders are armored and stalkers pop them fast as long as they have zeals + guardian around to make them hard to pick off.
Early on just open pylon gas gate pylon core (roughly), using chrono boost intelligently on your nexus. Never use it if you can't dedicated 150 to probes in the next 20 or so seconds. Get 1 zeal to chase their SCV then 3 sentries, while adding 2 more gates. Chrono boost the gate while building the sentries to get them out ASAP so they can start saving energy. Then go 3 gate stalker/zeal, using all your gas on stalkers, until you have about 8, then build a robotics. By this point the T would likely have attacked you either with an early reaper harass, which you'd stop easily with the stalkers, or with a marine/marauder rush, which you can beat back with a little micro + guardian shield.
Once your robo is coming, work in a twilight council asap for charge, get an ob when robo is up, switch to making zeal so you can use gas for charge and immortals and support bay. Keep your robo boosted at all times. After 3-4 immortals start on cols. Replace non-zeal ground units accordingly - you always need 3-4 sentries, and about 1.5 times the zeals you have stalkers (this works for me mostly, though I don't stick to any of these rules precisely).
Usually T will try to expand behind that rush so make an obs first out of robo and watch their base, then make a few immortals, and then start on colossues. They lowered the cost on cols to 200 gas today so they're way faster getting out on 1 base. You can easily 3 gate, chrono boosted robo building cols on 1 base, nonstop, with around 34 probes on minerals.
Anyway... the only really hard pvt I have are when they go marauder/tank. That's tough. You fight it basically the same way, but you have to get more obs and gank them while they move about the map.
that is sick. Please post a replay!
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immortals are the key to beat any marauder army
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zealots w/ charge are a soft counter to marauders. Back it up with a few immortals and you should be fine.
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On February 20 2010 09:05 Louder wrote:
I rarely have any real problems vs marauders. Are you using sentries and spamming guardian + using force fields tactically? Are you getting charge promptly? I defend hardcore stimmed marine/marauder rushes regularly with a mix of zeals, sentries and stalkers. Marauders are armored and stalkers pop them fast as long as they have zeals + guardian around to make them hard to pick off.
Early on just open pylon gas gate pylon core (roughly), using chrono boost intelligently on your nexus. Never use it if you can't dedicated 150 to probes in the next 20 or so seconds. Get 1 zeal to chase their SCV then 3 sentries, while adding 2 more gates. Chrono boost the gate while building the sentries to get them out ASAP so they can start saving energy. Then go 3 gate stalker/zeal, using all your gas on stalkers, until you have about 8, then build a robotics. By this point the T would likely have attacked you either with an early reaper harass, which you'd stop easily with the stalkers, or with a marine/marauder rush, which you can beat back with a little micro + guardian shield.
Once your robo is coming, work in a twilight council asap for charge, get an ob when robo is up, switch to making zeal so you can use gas for charge and immortals and support bay. Keep your robo boosted at all times. After 3-4 immortals start on cols. Replace non-zeal ground units accordingly - you always need 3-4 sentries, and about 1.5 times the zeals you have stalkers (this works for me mostly, though I don't stick to any of these rules precisely).
Usually T will try to expand behind that rush so make an obs first out of robo and watch their base, then make a few immortals, and then start on colossues. They lowered the cost on cols to 200 gas today so they're way faster getting out on 1 base. You can easily 3 gate, chrono boosted robo building cols on 1 base, nonstop, with around 34 probes on minerals.
Anyway... the only really hard pvt I have are when they go marauder/tank. That's tough. You fight it basically the same way, but you have to get more obs and gank them while they move about the map.
Thanks a ton for this. I'm definitely going to give this a try. I have been at a complete loss how to handle the MM army.
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EPT
