EPTTeamLiquid Map Contest Finalists - Page 7
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crow_mw
Poland115 Posts
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chuky500
France473 Posts
I kept browsing the Custom maps thread and mappers say they know so much more now than when they started mapping but in my opinion there's still a long way to go. I thought this was about trying new features not about proving that broken features from 3 years ago were indeed broken. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12056 Posts
On May 21 2013 03:35 GeOnoSis wrote: Pretty shitty taste of maps and sense of what might be complete bullshit then. I mean like Keru.. seriously. This is not creativity, this is just dumb. Imagine any PvP or sth on a map like this. Okay my fault if 3/4 of the judges did not know who created those maps. Still sad that many good maps did not make it through and some really crappy maps did. How is a highground main with barely any room to warp in any different from having a low ground main? Also it encourages you to go nexus first or gate into nexus with mothership core and you can even wall the highground. You could even put unbuildable terrain at the point where you can warp down and warp ins don't ever happen again. If you're getting contained on a ramp by a forcefield, that happens regardless if it's up or down. | ||
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
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Obsi
87 Posts
How is a highground main with barely any room to warp in any different from having a low ground main? Also it encourages you to go nexus first or gate into nexus with mothership core and you can even wall the highground. You could even put unbuildable terrain at the point where you can warp down and warp ins don't ever happen again. If you're getting contained on a ramp by a forcefield, that happens regardless if it's up or down. It's a huge difference. Easiest example PvT or PvP. You can't just poke UP a choke vs marines etc. that easily without any risks. Now think how a Stalker poke will look like when you have complete vision. Not only that, but now your opponent can't even look up. It's just dumb and will make this matchup really weird, but surely not in a good way. Even TvT walling would be a bad idea, since they can destroy your wall with literally a handful of units. PvP kind of the same. Bring back the good old 4 Gate/early 3 Gate pressure etc. And even if the game doesn't end in 7 mins it's a matchup where the games often tend to be on 1 base for quite some time. There used to be a thing called the defenders advantage, but on this map, it's more like the opposite. Especially vs Protoss where distance for reinforcement doesn't matter. The attacking player will have the advantage. PvT again: Protoss all ins, Terran has to lift the Base and take it to the highground IN YOUR MAIN to be able to defend the attack. A design like this will make all ins even stronger than they already are in many cases. Please tell me about those things. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On May 21 2013 03:41 chuky500 wrote: A disappointing thing in the maps is appart from Insidious, every map has a siegable natural or 3rd base. Props to Electric Circuit, Koprulu and Keru who have the Natural's CC/Nexus/Hatch that's siegable from outside the base. Haven't mappers learnt from Steppes of War and Lost Temple ? Even Khoral City and Tal'darim Altar demonstrated that you can't have a siegable 3rd nor a part of the natural, but Khalim's Will has half the mineral line and a gas that's siegable, and Ravage has a gas in the natural that you can hit with tanks. I kept browsing the Custom maps thread and mappers say know so much more now than when they started mapping but in my opinion there's still a long way to go. I thought this was about trying new features not about proving that broken features from 3 years ago were indeed broken. Way to look at the big picture of a map, the way every feature of a map comes together to create the whole, and not pick terrible examples to demonstrate your point. You sound upset. | ||
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LainRivers
United States36 Posts
If you want standard maps, vote for standard maps. You can always veto non-standard, I guarantee you blizzard will never put more non-standard maps into the pool than you have vetos, 100% guarantee it. Things that were downright terrible in WoL could easily end up being viable in HotS. Gameplay has changed so much, people (including me, being toss) thought speedivacs were the most ridiculous fucking idea on the planet...but my opinion is now that Terran literally needs them, or they would fall behind P and Z. New ideas, especially those that force people to 'play better', different, or adapt, should be welcomed with open arms. For ladder in general, I believe standard maps are the way to go for the most part, however, due to the veto system blizzard can afford to put maps that have proven to be at the very least 'not bad' for the game into ladder to see how the game develops based on maps. A good ratio will be what I'm hoping for, potential progress will not come if maps never change the gameplay enough to matter. Will some of the maps lead to no progress, or even be downright bad in a HotS environment? You bet! Honestly, what the hell isn't like that? The future will come by itself, progress will not. Standard maps will be plentiful in the coming months and years, especially with everyone's new stance on the map pools stagnating. Suck it up and vote for whatever maps you want and enjoy the ride, don't scorn those willing to try something that in the end will not hurt the game for having been tried when the opportunity presents itself. | ||
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FlyingBeer
United States262 Posts
On May 21 2013 03:30 monk wrote: You guys don't really deserve a response, but if you truly believe Ragoo being on TPW favored TPW maps, his opinion accounted for only 1/4th of the final standings. Also, Are you claiming that there was absolutely zero cross-communication between judges such that it would have been impossible for Ragoo to have influenced the other judges' decisions? Are you also claiming that Ragoo didn't know which maps were made by TPW simply because you left the names off them? Really? I know you guys worked really hard on judging these maps, and I can't wait to read the judges comments on the maps, if any are forthcoming. But please, don't be dismissive of complaints like that. | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
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fezvez
France3021 Posts
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xAriA
United States58 Posts
For 2v2 Drifas Throne looks really interesting. I'm not much of a 2v2 player but the 2v2 maps seem to be reallllly bad. This one actually looks pretty decent imo. | ||
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Fuzer
Finland266 Posts
NEW BLISTERING SANDS! please no | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On May 21 2013 04:00 fezvez wrote: I'd make the team maps immediately go in the ladder pool, except for Drifas Throne, because, it may be too... complex for the ladder pool, according to Blizzard. You see, an island map? Oooohhhhhhhhhhhh, that's too hard for the casual player (mind you that the casual player has been playing for three years) it would get rid of the traditional problem of rushing in team games there might be casual players who have never known what it's like not to live in fear or the infamous 6 pool 3 rax 4 gate dt follow up. | ||
monk
United States8477 Posts
On May 21 2013 03:56 FlyingBeer wrote: Are you claiming that there was absolutely zero cross-communication between judges such that it would have been impossible for Ragoo to have influenced the other judges' decisions? Are you also claiming that Ragoo didn't know which maps were made by TPW simply because you left the names off them? Really? I know you guys worked really hard on judging these maps, and I can't wait to read the judges comments on the maps, if any are forthcoming. But please, don't be dismissive of complaints like that. Without revealing too much, there was limited, if any communication between the judges. The response I gave could have been less harsh, but I believe it was appropriate given that the two comments before me outright directly accused the judges of favoritism. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
On May 21 2013 03:04 saltis wrote: Well, the reason is not simply because of design, the reason is practical - I hardly can see what is on the dark map when I have sun shining into my room. As i mentioned before, I am not a Pro gamer with best living pro conditions to perform on the best level. I love this game, it is the best game in the long term, but its not exciting to have strained eyes. I agree SC2 in general has way too dark maps. In the client and on stream - sometimes the gameplay is barely visible, because it's too dark. I love darkness in games, but in an RTS it's of the highest importance to recognize units on the screen. (edit: raising the gamma too much is also not an acceptable solution) | ||
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Obsi
87 Posts
Without revealing too much, there was limited, if any communication between the judges. The response I gave could have been less harsh, but I believe it was appropriate given that the two comments before me outright directly accused the judges of favoritism. I guess we were both exaggerating a little bit, sorry for that. My point of some maps being really bad and disappointing stays though.. I hope someone gets to explain me why maps like Keru should be any good on a professional level. Maybe it's just my own stupidity and I don't get it, but the bad design and huge problems that come with it should be pretty obvious to anyone.. | ||
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LainRivers
United States36 Posts
On May 21 2013 04:09 GeOnoSis wrote: I guess we were both exaggerating a little bit, sorry for that. My point of some maps being really bad and disappointing stays though.. I hope someone gets to explain me why maps like Keru should be any good on a professional level. Maybe it's just my own stupidity and I don't get it, but the bad design and huge problems that come with it should be pretty obvious to anyone.. When is anything new blatantly and completely obvious, even to the pros? New builds/timings/ideas are constantly found over the course of months, when basically nothing is changed, not even the maps. Can you really say just trying new things is downright bad? Especially given an entire expansion was released since we seriously tested shit like this? There are some standard maps in there too, and most likely those will be chosen for ladder if any are. Keep an open mind...this isn't just for ladder, it's for mapping in general. It's an excuse to try shit. | ||
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Tosster
Poland299 Posts
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Obsi
87 Posts
When is anything new blatantly and completely obvious, even to the pros? New builds/timings are constantly found over the course of months, when basically nothing is changed, not even the maps. Can you really say just trying new things is downright bad? It's obvious that this map would need some MAJOR CHANGES in gameplay or otherwise would be pretty imbalanced imo, but do you really want every map to be like this? Either that, or players would waste a lot of time, trying to figure out how to play it, which would definetely require a lot of time. Just to know how you should play on this one single map. I don't want to say that new things are bad. There will always be a change in gameplay and just the general pace, which is a good thing I guess! But there is a point where creativity and "change" goes to far and will just produce many problems and bad gameplay. What do you think about Klonats Mire? Fucking AWESOME, isn't it? Well if you think so.. you will neve get my point anyways I guess. I don't want to insult anyone, just making clear what I mean and how I mean it. Sorry for bad writing, explanation and just general english btw. | ||
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LainRivers
United States36 Posts
On May 21 2013 04:24 GeOnoSis wrote: It's obvious that this map would need some MAJOR CHANGES in gameplay or otherwise would be pretty imbalanced imo, but do you really want every map to be like this? Either that, or players would waste a lot of time, trying to figure out how to play it, which would definetely require a lot of time. Just to know how you should play on this one single map. I don't want to say that new things are bad. There will always be a change in gameplay and just the general pace, which is a good thing I guess! But there is a point where creativity and "change" goes to far and will just produce many problems and bad gameplay. What do you think about Klonats Mire? Fucking AWESOME, isn't it? Well if you think so.. you will neve get my point anyways I guess. I don't want to insult anyone, just making clear what I mean and how I mean it. Sorry for bad writing, explanation and just general english btw. rofl, 'in your opinion', Enough said. Klontas? who knows, who cares, they tried something new, maybe it will be bad, maybe it will be great. It's not a 'waste of time'. Nothing is lost for trying. Veto it if you don't like it, others will experiment. You can play the standard maps all you want buddy. Things that were 'bad' in people's (even the pros) opinions ended up being good, just sit back and enjoy the ride, no one's forcing anything on you. It's an excuse to try shit with a tournament with plenty of players and maybe even a few pros. Don't forget it's 2013 not 2011, HotS is out, and even the slightest changes in gameplay, thinking, or tactics can lead to paradigm shifts. This is a great opportunity. | ||
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