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On May 21 2013 05:37 lorestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 05:06 Aturion wrote:
these maps look like shit to be honest ... are the people who are making these map bronze players or do they just don´t know How the game works ? most of the maps have Way to much dead space, and too much sapce to abuse really easy, they are not really playable to even comparable to serious maps, noone of them will ever make it to a serious tournament.
User was warned for this post I dont agree with this post, but I wonder why the user was warned?? He offered and opinion + reasoning. He is wrong, (for the most part) but his opinion shouldnt be censored even just because it was negative one.
There's a difference between giving a negative opinion versus saying that maps are terrible and will never go a step forward.
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I guess bronze is an insult to some people 
But I must inform you that I was a gold player during my best days!
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I just dont get this
Q: How crazy can I be in my map?
Ultimately, these maps will need to be ladder appropriate i.e. need to be accessible to players of all skill levels. Things like geysers blocking ramps, which require prerequisite knowledge to be able to use, are thus not contest appropriate. Use this as a guide when deciding on what features to include on your maps.
And then I see some maps with some "crazy" things, or at least things that needs knowledge.. i just dont understand why discourage "crazy" things first and then choose them like finalist, i'm not even complaining, just trying to understand.
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On May 21 2013 05:41 lefix wrote:I guess bronze is an insult to some people But I must inform you that I was a gold player during my best days!
As with I! Infact I still am in gold!
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On May 21 2013 05:42 InVerno wrote:
I just dont get this
Q: How crazy can I be in my map?
Ultimately, these maps will need to be ladder appropriate i.e. need to be accessible to players of all skill levels. Things like geysers blocking ramps, which require prerequisite knowledge to be able to use, are thus not contest appropriate. Use this as a guide when deciding on what features to include on your maps.
And then I see some maps with some "crazy" things, or at least things that needs knowledge.. i just dont understand why discourage "crazy" things first and then choose them like finalist, i'm not even complaining, just trying to understand.
What's really crazy about these maps? There's a big difference between needing some knowledge about a map (as in, after you play it once or twice, you'll realize your nat has a back door), and "geyser blocking ramps" (as in, you would have no idea how to get past it, even if you sit there staring at it).
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On May 21 2013 05:17 LainRivers wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 04:59 chuky500 wrote:
To be fair, Blizzard has made the pylons in HOTS so you can't warp to the high ground for balance purpose, so what's the point of erasing that change just for the sake of it ? You don't see 4 gates anymore but tbh there are so many features in those maps that have been proven to be broken or boring over the years, like the backdoor rocks from Blistering Sands, the siegable natural from Lost Temple and Steppes of War, or impossible 3rds or the "non-droppable wall" that allows you to warp with a prism while hidden. You don't favor experimenting by forcing 3 year old features back in the game, especially when they were broken.
I'd be ok if the finalists were maps with cool features that have never been tested, but the maps don't have those cool features. And if I didn't know who had made those maps I would have said they have very little experience with mapping, because of all the flaws. (btw most mappers posted their submission and made threads on TL so it was pretty hard not to know who'd made the maps). See that's the thing though...it's been years, and HotS is big enough of an upset to revisit things from time to time. As monk pointed out, these maps can (and maybe will, in many cases) be modified.
Still he got a point in that it seems some of these makers really didn't consider that this maps should be considered for ladder play.
Kero strikes out to me as a map where there at no point was considered that the majority of players potentially playing it would be Gold Level or below;
Lowground main causing all sorts of issues long since fixed.
Rock towers not fully covering their paths.
"No Xelnaga Tower" as a listed feature.
All of these decisions seemingly made to promote skill i guess, but on ladder it is just going to cause the map to be Vetoed en mass should it win, which i hope it don't. Not sure how it made it this far.
Koprulus douple-sided expansions seems in direct violation with the rule of standard expansions too through, again not sure what they are doing with these picks.
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On May 21 2013 05:42 IronManSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 05:41 lefix wrote:I guess bronze is an insult to some people But I must inform you that I was a gold player during my best days! As with I! Infact I still am in gold!
...wait what?
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Give the maps a chance and playtest them. Its a lot different looking at a map image than actually playing on them. Look forward to trying them out.
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On May 21 2013 05:45 soon.Cloak wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 05:42 IronManSC wrote:On May 21 2013 05:41 lefix wrote:I guess bronze is an insult to some people But I must inform you that I was a gold player during my best days! As with I! Infact I still am in gold! ...wait what?
Hey, it's our business to understand the game, not play it.
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On May 21 2013 05:42 InVerno wrote:
I just dont get this
Q: How crazy can I be in my map?
Ultimately, these maps will need to be ladder appropriate i.e. need to be accessible to players of all skill levels. Things like geysers blocking ramps, which require prerequisite knowledge to be able to use, are thus not contest appropriate. Use this as a guide when deciding on what features to include on your maps.
And then I see some maps with some "crazy" things, or at least things that needs knowledge.. i just dont understand why discourage "crazy" things first and then choose them like finalist, i'm not even complaining, just trying to understand.
I think this is a somewhat valid complaint. Personally, I would have submitted 2 completely different maps if I had known that the initial statement they made was more or less untrue and they would actually be picking experimental stuff. I think the vast majority of people were under the impression that they would only seriously consider stuff that was somewhat normal.
Regardless I am quite, quite glad that some experimental stuff is getting recognized. Finally.
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On May 21 2013 05:37 lorestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 05:06 Aturion wrote:
these maps look like shit to be honest ... are the people who are making these map bronze players or do they just don´t know How the game works ? most of the maps have Way to much dead space, and too much sapce to abuse really easy, they are not really playable to even comparable to serious maps, noone of them will ever make it to a serious tournament.
User was warned for this post I dont agree with this post, but I wonder why the user was warned?? He offered and opinion + reasoning. He is wrong, (for the most part) but his opinion shouldnt be censored even just because it was negative one.
Calling the mapmakers bronze players and saying they don't know how the game works would probably be a decent reason for the warning. 
I really wanna know the dates for the TL Opens~ Easier for me to plan for watching them without double booking myself!
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On May 21 2013 05:54 iamcaustic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 05:37 lorestarcraft wrote:On May 21 2013 05:06 Aturion wrote:
these maps look like shit to be honest ... are the people who are making these map bronze players or do they just don´t know How the game works ? most of the maps have Way to much dead space, and too much sapce to abuse really easy, they are not really playable to even comparable to serious maps, noone of them will ever make it to a serious tournament.
User was warned for this post I dont agree with this post, but I wonder why the user was warned?? He offered and opinion + reasoning. He is wrong, (for the most part) but his opinion shouldnt be censored even just because it was negative one. Calling the mapmakers bronze players and saying they don't know how the game works would probably be a decent reason for the warning. I really wanna know the dates for the TL Opens~ Easier for me to plan for watching them without double booking myself!
Perhaps, it's just that worse things than that are said all the time.
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The teamplay maps Mystic has a really interesting concep, making multiple games on the map not feel the same.
Taking a look at Breeze and one really does get that chaotic hunter feel to it as well. Would love to see it in the BNET map pool.
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Can not being able to target unbuildable rocks please become the new thing? It tickles my fancy. (Koprulu I think it was)
P.S.
While the complaint of 'it should be completely ladder compliant' is somewhat valid, none of these except for possibly the low ground main are exactly 'not ladder compliant', but more-so, 'not meta-game compliant'...Generally anyone below top masters/GM likely won't know how to use any map or meta game to their advantage anyway, they aren't different enough to completely cause an upheaval. The maps can still undergo changes based on feedback, a great many players will most likely have a standard game compared to the rest of your games 95% of the time, aside from breaking down some rocks to make an alternate entrance when you go to kill them, if you so choose.
Also, this isn't a 100% ladder approval based contest, and blizzard specifically asked for a 'shake up'. All of the finalists (which include at least 2 rather standard maps), are considered by blizzard, and they reserve the right to change them to be more friendly if necessary. So basically they will most likely pick the standard maps unless one of the experimental maps pans out very well. Which we can't really know if we don't try.
The winners of this contest won't necessarily be the ladder map, if any.
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Can I get an idea how many submitted maps weren't posted in the original thread. Just want to go over all of them by myself.
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On May 21 2013 06:20 a176 wrote:
Can I get an idea how many submitted maps weren't posted in the original thread. Just want to go over all of them by myself.
From what i've heard there were around 140 submitted maps across both platforms (1v1 and team). Do the math
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On May 21 2013 00:07 garbanzo wrote:
Man, these are some really cool maps. As a huge fan of Outsider, I've been waiting to see when a map like that was going to make an appearance in SC2. I hope we get some really cool games. Is it still possible to push your probe/SCV through a mineral line?
Unfortunately you cannot push workers through the minerals 
On May 21 2013 03:41 chuky500 wrote:
A disappointing thing in the maps is appart from Insidious, every map has a siegable natural or 3rd base. Props to Electric Circuit, Koprulu and Keru who even have the natural's CC/Nexus/Hatch that's siegable from outside the base. Haven't mappers learnt from Steppes of War and Lost Temple ? Even Khoral Compound and Tal'darim Altar have already demonstrated that you can't have a siegable 3rd nor a part of the natural, but still Khalim's Will has half the mineral line and a gas that's siegable, and Ravage has a gas in the natural that you can hit with tanks. The sad part is Monitor is even accentuating his former winning map's flaw. In Korhal Compound the siegable 3rd was bad and now he puts a siegable natural...
I kept browsing the Custom maps thread and mappers say they know so much more now than when they started mapping but in my opinion there's still a long way to go. I thought this was about trying new features not about proving that broken features from 3 years ago were indeed broken.
For my next trick, I will put hostile siege tanks in the naturals bases!
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To make mech work in TvP, which is weak to almost every 1-2 base Protoss all-in, the main base needs to bleed into the natural creating a choke. Like the map TPW Strangewood Mire or the Brood War map Fighting Spirit. These are for the tanks on the high ground to protect the entrance into the natural from immortal all ins, 1 base colossus, delayed 4-gate, etc. Think Neo Planet S, but with a more exaggerated natural entrance.
That 'foot' or 'boot' of high ground that sticks-out is key, other wise tanks in siege mode have to be too close to the cliff in order to cover the entrance into the natural, and can get sniped by pretty much everything. TPW Strangewood Mire is also great because the backside of the main is dead space for the most part, so Blink Stalker all-ins can't immediately counter your siege tanks just having blink. Blink all ins instantly kill a player going mech on maps like Star station where 50% or more of the main is accessible to blink stalkers.
The High Ground Advantage, for terrans going mech TvP, is practically everything. In HotS Blizzard removed the requirement for siege mode upgrade, in the hopes that it would help terrans defend all-ins better using mech or bio. But the Mothership Core provides high ground vision extremely early in the game. This immediately negates all highground advantage that siege tanks need early in the game, and in small numbers. This was further compounded by the way SC2 maps were being made.
In the HotS Beta Blizzard changed the mothership core, from being locked to a nexus(and transporting between nexus) to freely moving around as an individual unit. The mothership core now comes out after the first zealot or stalker, much sooner than an observer. This is extremely painful if you do any early tank opener for defense, in-which 2stalkers and a MsC can snipe your tank, let alone an immortal bust without obs can just melt all the tanks on the highground, if the tanks are too close to the edge.
I hope the community and blizzard will reconsider a map like TPW Strangewood Mire and TPW Koprulu, and add it to the ladder although Koprulu looks strange with the low ground metal textures.
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United Kingdom12071 Posts
I've just managed to get a game on Keru done, well a few and can I just say as a meching terran vs Toss I love it. It reminds me quite a lot of Neo Jade in terms of getting the natural fast with a wall and it's got a really nice choke to hold off a bunch of those pesky all ins with a good old siege expand. Thumbs up from me.
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These maps look interesting.
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EPT
