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[UMS] Macro Or Die - The Competitive Macro Trainer - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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GCVeila
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States39 Posts
April 26 2011 12:42 GMT
#21
Really awesome idea! I can't wait to get in and try it out, think I'll log on and give it a shot now :3

but yes, this will deffinately help ALOT of people out, especially when you tweet a few things that you mentioned you will be doing.
Just keep playing, don't stop!
ihasaKAROT
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4730 Posts
April 26 2011 13:51 GMT
#22
Dont want to be annoying, but doenst the [M] stand for Melee? Should be [UMS] for this map
KCCO!
_Major
Profile Joined April 2011
United States107 Posts
April 26 2011 14:57 GMT
#23
On April 26 2011 22:51 ihasaKAROT wrote:
Dont want to be annoying, but doenst the [M] stand for Melee? Should be [UMS] for this map


I'll leave it to the mods to categorize this as they see fit.

Every Macro Or Die map is a ladder or GSL map, which should be played with melee settings. Also, this was built primarily for human vs human games (including team and FFA). The AI is there for practice; it is normal melee AI and will not be affected by Nukes.
Do you practice on Macro Or Die maps? You should - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216550
gumbum8
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States721 Posts
April 26 2011 15:08 GMT
#24
IMO make it an exponentially growing curve of min/gas income you have to meet to keep players from sitting on 2 bases- seriously. You haven't learned to macro if you never expand past your natural.
but really, has anyone REALLY been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
novabossa
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States350 Posts
April 26 2011 15:48 GMT
#25
One minor suggestion: how about incorporating chronoboost energy / queen energy / orbital energy into the macro equation? Similar to how the multitask trainer functions, but the penalty can be something like a nuke incoming for energy above 25/50/75/100 (depending on the league cushion).
Rachel: First game. oGsMC: Yea. Rachel: Dark Templar. oGsMC: Yea. Rachel: Countered. oGsMC: Yea. Rachel: Were you worried? oGsMC: What?
_Major
Profile Joined April 2011
United States107 Posts
April 26 2011 16:32 GMT
#26
On April 26 2011 20:30 Inori wrote:
FE gets punished.

Also what do you need to do to get masters level?


Master level requires at the minimum 10 minutes of good macro without triggering the countdown. If you trigger a countdown then you will stay at your level. If you trigger a nuke launch then you will go down a level.

FEs will generally cause you to delay your macro level increase a bit, but as I said at the top, this does not matter. You will easily be able to get to your appropriate level in a macro game because your chance at promotion comes once a minute.


On April 27 2011 00:48 novabossa wrote:
One minor suggestion: how about incorporating chronoboost energy / queen energy / orbital energy into the macro equation? Similar to how the multitask trainer functions, but the penalty can be something like a nuke incoming for energy above 25/50/75/100 (depending on the league cushion).


Were you finding that you could get away with not using chronoboost, Mules or Supply Calldown, or spawn larvae? The penalties are pretty built-in to the gameplay. You most likely will be unable to spend your income fast enough if you are not taking advantage of these boosts.

Also keep in mind that this mod is built for all skill levels. If you are bronze/silver just trying to spend and plan your spending may be more than enough for you to tackle, and your bronze or silver opponents won't force you to use extra abilities. As you player higher rated opponents you have to expect that they are using all of the tools available to them to out macro you; so you are in effect being penalized when you don't use them - you will almost always lose.
Do you practice on Macro Or Die maps? You should - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216550
Dubsys
Profile Joined July 2007
Australia122 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 16:38:49
April 26 2011 16:38 GMT
#27
http://replayfu.com/r/G5SFZn

i rarely melee but heres a game i played quickly to see what the map was like.
kept getting nukes but got out of it pretty quickly

i was also able to dump minerals into building stuff that wouldn't be in production straight away to keep my mins down which i think sort of took the point out of it

also i very rarely used chrono, it's been a few months since i've meleed properly
Patience is bitter, but it bears sweet fruit.
Deleted User 61629
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1664 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 17:03:00
April 26 2011 17:00 GMT
#28
--- Nuked ---
FatalRuin
Profile Joined March 2011
United States45 Posts
April 26 2011 17:01 GMT
#29
On April 27 2011 00:48 novabossa wrote:
One minor suggestion: how about incorporating chronoboost energy / queen energy / orbital energy into the macro equation? Similar to how the multitask trainer functions, but the penalty can be something like a nuke incoming for energy above 25/50/75/100 (depending on the league cushion).


Also what if for a queen someone is saving for transfusions? Or if someone is saving chronos so they can non stop chrono warpgates? with the new warp gate time toss needs more chronos to get it done.
_Major
Profile Joined April 2011
United States107 Posts
April 26 2011 18:15 GMT
#30
On April 27 2011 01:38 Stickmatrix wrote:
http://replayfu.com/r/G5SFZn

i rarely melee but heres a game i played quickly to see what the map was like.
kept getting nukes but got out of it pretty quickly

i was also able to dump minerals into building stuff that wouldn't be in production straight away to keep my mins down which i think sort of took the point out of it

also i very rarely used chrono, it's been a few months since i've meleed properly


Thanks for the replay Dub. I thought it went very smoothly - you needed the reminder every once in awhile but you were able to recover almost immediately; you never actually had a nuke get launched.

Everyone please take into account that against the AI you are generally facing a Computer who stays on 1 base throughout the game. They aren't really going to force you to be honest - so yes against a lesser opponent you can spend resources on stuff that isn't exactly making you more efficient.
Do you practice on Macro Or Die maps? You should - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216550
novabossa
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States350 Posts
April 26 2011 19:20 GMT
#31
On April 27 2011 01:32 _Major wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 20:30 Inori wrote:
FE gets punished.

Also what do you need to do to get masters level?


Master level requires at the minimum 10 minutes of good macro without triggering the countdown. If you trigger a countdown then you will stay at your level. If you trigger a nuke launch then you will go down a level.

FEs will generally cause you to delay your macro level increase a bit, but as I said at the top, this does not matter. You will easily be able to get to your appropriate level in a macro game because your chance at promotion comes once a minute.


Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 00:48 novabossa wrote:
One minor suggestion: how about incorporating chronoboost energy / queen energy / orbital energy into the macro equation? Similar to how the multitask trainer functions, but the penalty can be something like a nuke incoming for energy above 25/50/75/100 (depending on the league cushion).


Were you finding that you could get away with not using chronoboost, Mules or Supply Calldown, or spawn larvae? The penalties are pretty built-in to the gameplay. You most likely will be unable to spend your income fast enough if you are not taking advantage of these boosts.

Also keep in mind that this mod is built for all skill levels. If you are bronze/silver just trying to spend and plan your spending may be more than enough for you to tackle, and your bronze or silver opponents won't force you to use extra abilities. As you player higher rated opponents you have to expect that they are using all of the tools available to them to out macro you; so you are in effect being penalized when you don't use them - you will almost always lose.


While that is a good point, I feel it is still beneficial for lower league players simply because it will help them to pinpoint why their macro is falling behind. It is also very good practice to have a constant mental timer on spending that energy. By adding a reminder, I think it'll help progress their macro abilities much faster simply by making them aware of the timings and how energy can help to dramatically help with macro.
Rachel: First game. oGsMC: Yea. Rachel: Dark Templar. oGsMC: Yea. Rachel: Countered. oGsMC: Yea. Rachel: Were you worried? oGsMC: What?
_Major
Profile Joined April 2011
United States107 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 19:35:33
April 26 2011 19:32 GMT
#32
[B]On April 27 2011 04:20 novabossa wrote:
While that is a good point, I feel it is still beneficial for lower league players simply because it will help them to pinpoint why their macro is falling behind. It is also very good practice to have a constant mental timer on spending that energy. By adding a reminder, I think it'll help progress their macro abilities much faster simply by making them aware of the timings and how energy can help to dramatically help with macro.


Duly noted. I've gotten a couple of other people requesting something along these lines too. I think I'm going to include it into the bonus points players get for their efficiency - since it is along those lines.

I was just on and got to referee a cool Diamond TvZ match on Macro Or Die [Tal'Darim Altar]. I've posted the replay in the OP for all to see what this mod looks like head to head.

The Game: http://drop.sc/7788
Do you practice on Macro Or Die maps? You should - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216550
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
April 26 2011 20:04 GMT
#33
I played zerg recently against a player on this map. Zerg can spend all their resources as long as they keep up with their larva injects, have enough larvae to spend. However, there are times when zerg need to delay their spending. Some examples are tech switching (muta balls), incomplete information to decide whether to make drones or what type of units, the need to assess how much damage an aggressive attack has done to the enemy before you choose to drone up or reinforce with units. I feel it's actually not beneficial for zergs learning how to macro to be forced into making units early game without being able to assess the situation properly. Usually, zergs can keep their resources low easier after saturating their third, and all larvae are used on army production. Perhaps you could give more allowance to zerg in the early game or even better use larvae quantity/queen energy as an indicator for macro.
novabossa
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States350 Posts
April 26 2011 20:12 GMT
#34
Thanks for listening ^_^ This UMS has amazing potential as a training tool for budding players. Keep up the good work!
Rachel: First game. oGsMC: Yea. Rachel: Dark Templar. oGsMC: Yea. Rachel: Countered. oGsMC: Yea. Rachel: Were you worried? oGsMC: What?
_Major
Profile Joined April 2011
United States107 Posts
April 26 2011 20:45 GMT
#35
On April 27 2011 05:04 babysimba wrote:
I played zerg recently against a player on this map. Zerg can spend all their resources as long as they keep up with their larva injects, have enough larvae to spend. However, there are times when zerg need to delay their spending. Some examples are tech switching (muta balls), incomplete information to decide whether to make drones or what type of units, the need to assess how much damage an aggressive attack has done to the enemy before you choose to drone up or reinforce with units. I feel it's actually not beneficial for zergs learning how to macro to be forced into making units early game without being able to assess the situation properly. Usually, zergs can keep their resources low easier after saturating their third, and all larvae are used on army production. Perhaps you could give more allowance to zerg in the early game or even better use larvae quantity/queen energy as an indicator for macro.


I've gotten a lot of feedback about this as well. I personally think some of it is unwarranted, as I play Zerg too; I really can't stress enough that I need replays to help me figure out exactly where the problem is. The TvZ replay I've posted is a good example (sorry Sovereign =p ). If you are stockpiling gas for mutas before your spire is started; you are doing something wrong IMO.

I watch a lot of pro games and even when they stockpile they are staying within the limits (when you account for the timer), because they keep their minerals low when they stockpile gas and they plan ahead with supply and building timings.

I realize I am not nearly as good as most of you, and that my experience isn't going to be suitable for everyone else. So, I will look into how to incorporate available larvae into the cushion for Zerg players for the benefit of the community.
Do you practice on Macro Or Die maps? You should - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216550
morx
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden12 Posts
April 26 2011 21:03 GMT
#36
I want to try this map out, but cant find it on EU :/
57 Corvette
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada5941 Posts
April 26 2011 21:12 GMT
#37
This is a really good idra for a map, I think this will really help me nail my macro-game abilities.

Do you think you can make this map on Jungle Basin? I know it was removed for being basically "Imba", but I still like it.
Survival is winning, everything else is bullshit.
rkffhk
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
474 Posts
April 26 2011 21:19 GMT
#38
What are all the commands? How do I restart? Do I have to remake after I gg?
"Did not realize gold was such an important threshold for people, I guess I honestly take it for granted that if people practice / invest enough time into this game then they would make diamond in no time." ~Caihead
_Major
Profile Joined April 2011
United States107 Posts
April 26 2011 21:23 GMT
#39
On April 27 2011 06:19 rkffhk wrote:
What are all the commands? How do I restart? Do I have to remake after I gg?


"gg" is the only command; make sure you are using melee settings. You do have to remake after each game.
Do you practice on Macro Or Die maps? You should - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216550
MasterReY
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Germany2708 Posts
April 26 2011 21:32 GMT
#40
will you bring this maps to EU?
Would love it
https://www.twitch.tv/MasterReY/ ~ Biggest Reach fan on TL.net (Don't even dare to mention LR now) ~ R.I.P Violet ~ Developer of SCRChart
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