• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:13
CEST 17:13
KST 00:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202559RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 What tournaments are world championships? RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Dewalt's Show Matches in China [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? [G] Mineral Boosting Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Post Pic of your Favorite Food! The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 842 users

[UMS] Macro Or Die - The Competitive Macro Trainer - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 19 20 21 Next All
GCVeila
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States39 Posts
April 26 2011 12:42 GMT
#21
Really awesome idea! I can't wait to get in and try it out, think I'll log on and give it a shot now :3

but yes, this will deffinately help ALOT of people out, especially when you tweet a few things that you mentioned you will be doing.
Just keep playing, don't stop!
ihasaKAROT
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4730 Posts
April 26 2011 13:51 GMT
#22
Dont want to be annoying, but doenst the [M] stand for Melee? Should be [UMS] for this map
KCCO!
_Major
Profile Joined April 2011
United States107 Posts
April 26 2011 14:57 GMT
#23
On April 26 2011 22:51 ihasaKAROT wrote:
Dont want to be annoying, but doenst the [M] stand for Melee? Should be [UMS] for this map


I'll leave it to the mods to categorize this as they see fit.

Every Macro Or Die map is a ladder or GSL map, which should be played with melee settings. Also, this was built primarily for human vs human games (including team and FFA). The AI is there for practice; it is normal melee AI and will not be affected by Nukes.
Do you practice on Macro Or Die maps? You should - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216550
gumbum8
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States721 Posts
April 26 2011 15:08 GMT
#24
IMO make it an exponentially growing curve of min/gas income you have to meet to keep players from sitting on 2 bases- seriously. You haven't learned to macro if you never expand past your natural.
but really, has anyone REALLY been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
novabossa
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States350 Posts
April 26 2011 15:48 GMT
#25
One minor suggestion: how about incorporating chronoboost energy / queen energy / orbital energy into the macro equation? Similar to how the multitask trainer functions, but the penalty can be something like a nuke incoming for energy above 25/50/75/100 (depending on the league cushion).
Rachel: First game. oGsMC: Yea. Rachel: Dark Templar. oGsMC: Yea. Rachel: Countered. oGsMC: Yea. Rachel: Were you worried? oGsMC: What?
_Major
Profile Joined April 2011
United States107 Posts
April 26 2011 16:32 GMT
#26
On April 26 2011 20:30 Inori wrote:
FE gets punished.

Also what do you need to do to get masters level?


Master level requires at the minimum 10 minutes of good macro without triggering the countdown. If you trigger a countdown then you will stay at your level. If you trigger a nuke launch then you will go down a level.

FEs will generally cause you to delay your macro level increase a bit, but as I said at the top, this does not matter. You will easily be able to get to your appropriate level in a macro game because your chance at promotion comes once a minute.


On April 27 2011 00:48 novabossa wrote:
One minor suggestion: how about incorporating chronoboost energy / queen energy / orbital energy into the macro equation? Similar to how the multitask trainer functions, but the penalty can be something like a nuke incoming for energy above 25/50/75/100 (depending on the league cushion).


Were you finding that you could get away with not using chronoboost, Mules or Supply Calldown, or spawn larvae? The penalties are pretty built-in to the gameplay. You most likely will be unable to spend your income fast enough if you are not taking advantage of these boosts.

Also keep in mind that this mod is built for all skill levels. If you are bronze/silver just trying to spend and plan your spending may be more than enough for you to tackle, and your bronze or silver opponents won't force you to use extra abilities. As you player higher rated opponents you have to expect that they are using all of the tools available to them to out macro you; so you are in effect being penalized when you don't use them - you will almost always lose.
Do you practice on Macro Or Die maps? You should - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216550
Dubsys
Profile Joined July 2007
Australia122 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 16:38:49
April 26 2011 16:38 GMT
#27
http://replayfu.com/r/G5SFZn

i rarely melee but heres a game i played quickly to see what the map was like.
kept getting nukes but got out of it pretty quickly

i was also able to dump minerals into building stuff that wouldn't be in production straight away to keep my mins down which i think sort of took the point out of it

also i very rarely used chrono, it's been a few months since i've meleed properly
Patience is bitter, but it bears sweet fruit.
Deleted User 61629
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1664 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 17:03:00
April 26 2011 17:00 GMT
#28
--- Nuked ---
FatalRuin
Profile Joined March 2011
United States45 Posts
April 26 2011 17:01 GMT
#29
On April 27 2011 00:48 novabossa wrote:
One minor suggestion: how about incorporating chronoboost energy / queen energy / orbital energy into the macro equation? Similar to how the multitask trainer functions, but the penalty can be something like a nuke incoming for energy above 25/50/75/100 (depending on the league cushion).


Also what if for a queen someone is saving for transfusions? Or if someone is saving chronos so they can non stop chrono warpgates? with the new warp gate time toss needs more chronos to get it done.
_Major
Profile Joined April 2011
United States107 Posts
April 26 2011 18:15 GMT
#30
On April 27 2011 01:38 Stickmatrix wrote:
http://replayfu.com/r/G5SFZn

i rarely melee but heres a game i played quickly to see what the map was like.
kept getting nukes but got out of it pretty quickly

i was also able to dump minerals into building stuff that wouldn't be in production straight away to keep my mins down which i think sort of took the point out of it

also i very rarely used chrono, it's been a few months since i've meleed properly


Thanks for the replay Dub. I thought it went very smoothly - you needed the reminder every once in awhile but you were able to recover almost immediately; you never actually had a nuke get launched.

Everyone please take into account that against the AI you are generally facing a Computer who stays on 1 base throughout the game. They aren't really going to force you to be honest - so yes against a lesser opponent you can spend resources on stuff that isn't exactly making you more efficient.
Do you practice on Macro Or Die maps? You should - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216550
novabossa
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States350 Posts
April 26 2011 19:20 GMT
#31
On April 27 2011 01:32 _Major wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 20:30 Inori wrote:
FE gets punished.

Also what do you need to do to get masters level?


Master level requires at the minimum 10 minutes of good macro without triggering the countdown. If you trigger a countdown then you will stay at your level. If you trigger a nuke launch then you will go down a level.

FEs will generally cause you to delay your macro level increase a bit, but as I said at the top, this does not matter. You will easily be able to get to your appropriate level in a macro game because your chance at promotion comes once a minute.


Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 00:48 novabossa wrote:
One minor suggestion: how about incorporating chronoboost energy / queen energy / orbital energy into the macro equation? Similar to how the multitask trainer functions, but the penalty can be something like a nuke incoming for energy above 25/50/75/100 (depending on the league cushion).


Were you finding that you could get away with not using chronoboost, Mules or Supply Calldown, or spawn larvae? The penalties are pretty built-in to the gameplay. You most likely will be unable to spend your income fast enough if you are not taking advantage of these boosts.

Also keep in mind that this mod is built for all skill levels. If you are bronze/silver just trying to spend and plan your spending may be more than enough for you to tackle, and your bronze or silver opponents won't force you to use extra abilities. As you player higher rated opponents you have to expect that they are using all of the tools available to them to out macro you; so you are in effect being penalized when you don't use them - you will almost always lose.


While that is a good point, I feel it is still beneficial for lower league players simply because it will help them to pinpoint why their macro is falling behind. It is also very good practice to have a constant mental timer on spending that energy. By adding a reminder, I think it'll help progress their macro abilities much faster simply by making them aware of the timings and how energy can help to dramatically help with macro.
Rachel: First game. oGsMC: Yea. Rachel: Dark Templar. oGsMC: Yea. Rachel: Countered. oGsMC: Yea. Rachel: Were you worried? oGsMC: What?
_Major
Profile Joined April 2011
United States107 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 19:35:33
April 26 2011 19:32 GMT
#32
[B]On April 27 2011 04:20 novabossa wrote:
While that is a good point, I feel it is still beneficial for lower league players simply because it will help them to pinpoint why their macro is falling behind. It is also very good practice to have a constant mental timer on spending that energy. By adding a reminder, I think it'll help progress their macro abilities much faster simply by making them aware of the timings and how energy can help to dramatically help with macro.


Duly noted. I've gotten a couple of other people requesting something along these lines too. I think I'm going to include it into the bonus points players get for their efficiency - since it is along those lines.

I was just on and got to referee a cool Diamond TvZ match on Macro Or Die [Tal'Darim Altar]. I've posted the replay in the OP for all to see what this mod looks like head to head.

The Game: http://drop.sc/7788
Do you practice on Macro Or Die maps? You should - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216550
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
April 26 2011 20:04 GMT
#33
I played zerg recently against a player on this map. Zerg can spend all their resources as long as they keep up with their larva injects, have enough larvae to spend. However, there are times when zerg need to delay their spending. Some examples are tech switching (muta balls), incomplete information to decide whether to make drones or what type of units, the need to assess how much damage an aggressive attack has done to the enemy before you choose to drone up or reinforce with units. I feel it's actually not beneficial for zergs learning how to macro to be forced into making units early game without being able to assess the situation properly. Usually, zergs can keep their resources low easier after saturating their third, and all larvae are used on army production. Perhaps you could give more allowance to zerg in the early game or even better use larvae quantity/queen energy as an indicator for macro.
novabossa
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States350 Posts
April 26 2011 20:12 GMT
#34
Thanks for listening ^_^ This UMS has amazing potential as a training tool for budding players. Keep up the good work!
Rachel: First game. oGsMC: Yea. Rachel: Dark Templar. oGsMC: Yea. Rachel: Countered. oGsMC: Yea. Rachel: Were you worried? oGsMC: What?
_Major
Profile Joined April 2011
United States107 Posts
April 26 2011 20:45 GMT
#35
On April 27 2011 05:04 babysimba wrote:
I played zerg recently against a player on this map. Zerg can spend all their resources as long as they keep up with their larva injects, have enough larvae to spend. However, there are times when zerg need to delay their spending. Some examples are tech switching (muta balls), incomplete information to decide whether to make drones or what type of units, the need to assess how much damage an aggressive attack has done to the enemy before you choose to drone up or reinforce with units. I feel it's actually not beneficial for zergs learning how to macro to be forced into making units early game without being able to assess the situation properly. Usually, zergs can keep their resources low easier after saturating their third, and all larvae are used on army production. Perhaps you could give more allowance to zerg in the early game or even better use larvae quantity/queen energy as an indicator for macro.


I've gotten a lot of feedback about this as well. I personally think some of it is unwarranted, as I play Zerg too; I really can't stress enough that I need replays to help me figure out exactly where the problem is. The TvZ replay I've posted is a good example (sorry Sovereign =p ). If you are stockpiling gas for mutas before your spire is started; you are doing something wrong IMO.

I watch a lot of pro games and even when they stockpile they are staying within the limits (when you account for the timer), because they keep their minerals low when they stockpile gas and they plan ahead with supply and building timings.

I realize I am not nearly as good as most of you, and that my experience isn't going to be suitable for everyone else. So, I will look into how to incorporate available larvae into the cushion for Zerg players for the benefit of the community.
Do you practice on Macro Or Die maps? You should - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216550
morx
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden12 Posts
April 26 2011 21:03 GMT
#36
I want to try this map out, but cant find it on EU :/
57 Corvette
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada5941 Posts
April 26 2011 21:12 GMT
#37
This is a really good idra for a map, I think this will really help me nail my macro-game abilities.

Do you think you can make this map on Jungle Basin? I know it was removed for being basically "Imba", but I still like it.
Survival is winning, everything else is bullshit.
rkffhk
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
474 Posts
April 26 2011 21:19 GMT
#38
What are all the commands? How do I restart? Do I have to remake after I gg?
"Did not realize gold was such an important threshold for people, I guess I honestly take it for granted that if people practice / invest enough time into this game then they would make diamond in no time." ~Caihead
_Major
Profile Joined April 2011
United States107 Posts
April 26 2011 21:23 GMT
#39
On April 27 2011 06:19 rkffhk wrote:
What are all the commands? How do I restart? Do I have to remake after I gg?


"gg" is the only command; make sure you are using melee settings. You do have to remake after each game.
Do you practice on Macro Or Die maps? You should - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216550
MasterReY
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Germany2708 Posts
April 26 2011 21:32 GMT
#40
will you bring this maps to EU?
Would love it
https://www.twitch.tv/MasterReY/ ~ Biggest Reach fan on TL.net (Don't even dare to mention LR now) ~ R.I.P Violet ~ Developer of SCRChart
TL+ Member
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 19 20 21 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
14:00
King of the Hill #219
davetesta19
Liquipedia
Esports World Cup
11:00
2025 - Final Day
Cure vs SolarLIVE!
Serral vs Classic
EWC_Arena16939
ComeBackTV 3523
TaKeTV 846
Hui .700
JimRising 560
3DClanTV 362
EnkiAlexander 261
Rex247
Fuzer 235
CranKy Ducklings122
Reynor121
SpeCial70
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
EWC_Arena17901
Hui .683
JimRising 550
Fuzer 235
Rex 232
Reynor 115
UpATreeSC 108
SpeCial 54
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 4401
Horang2 3208
Shuttle 2908
EffOrt 1256
Larva 982
Mini 851
BeSt 641
Barracks 503
Stork 424
actioN 363
[ Show more ]
Soma 327
ggaemo 233
Soulkey 144
JYJ129
Snow 123
Hyun 117
Rush 115
TY 113
Sharp 55
sSak 38
Aegong 32
sorry 31
Sacsri 13
soO 13
JulyZerg 9
Bale 3
Dota 2
Gorgc6958
420jenkins367
XaKoH 295
syndereN292
XcaliburYe243
KheZu95
Counter-Strike
fl0m3200
sgares347
shoxiejesuss67
Other Games
gofns7026
singsing1978
ScreaM1645
Beastyqt695
KnowMe149
FrodaN111
ArmadaUGS105
QueenE92
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 9
• Michael_bg 5
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• FirePhoenix0
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV542
League of Legends
• Nemesis5778
Other Games
• Shiphtur167
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
18h 47m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
22h 47m
CSO Cup
1d
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 2h
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
1d 17h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 22h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Online Event
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.