EPTPlus I would say that one map/person is better because I see a lot of participants in this competition.
Map of the month competition - Page 2
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MAPPoVe
86 Posts
Plus I would say that one map/person is better because I see a lot of participants in this competition. | ||
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FlopTurnReaver
Switzerland1980 Posts
Recognition by the mapping community is really nice, but who else except the mappers themselfes and a couple other peeps even visit this forum? I don't know actually but I'd say not a whole lot. If you really want to go somewhere with this I think you should get toghether with someone and maybe combine it with a invitational tournament or something where the top 3 maps would be played. Of course it would be awesome if TL officially helped to promote custom maps but I think it's really cool that you make the effort and try to change something. It's just not recommendable to just do something without any preparation and elaborate plan. | ||
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Samro225am
Germany982 Posts
On November 19 2010 01:24 FlopTurnReaver wrote: Recognition by the mapping community is really nice, but who else except the mappers themselfes and a couple other peeps even visit this forum? I don't know actually but I'd say not a whole lot. If you really want to go somewhere with this I think you should get toghether with someone and maybe combine it with a invitational tournament or something where the top 3 maps would be played. Of course it would be awesome if TL officially helped to promote custom maps but I think it's really cool that you make the effort and try to change something. It's just not recommendable to just do something without any preparation and elaborate plan. and: Guys I think there are a lot of different ideas coming together in this thread. as someone who kind of pushed the idea of a MotM I feel I should try to contribute to the discussion. I mean it is nice that everybody likes the idea, but the commnity should try to become a clear picture of what they want and what is possible. probably we all should try to find the key points to make MotM successfull. lets collect all ideas, make a big poll on lots of stuff and then ask someone from the TL staff how they could help us (mappers and players I think) with a front page feature, use of the map in a tourney, etc. probably IICup wants to give away a wildcard one-time entry?  in my opinion most important question is: who will be part of jury or will it be community vote only? I think if you want to have a MotM that is really woth something you need some restrictions. if everybody tries to take art with lots of maps 'all made this month' it is difficult to judge. and if you have an open poll where anybody could vote for a map....I mean everybody should be able to say what they think deserves to win, but clicking in a poll is easy, but judgin is difficult. my suggestion is a jury of three or five: e.g. (1) TL staff + (1) community poll + (1) last winner. or if iicup is in, then someone from there staff as an expert as well. everybody puts down a name a winner. if here is a tie then vote again on all tied/best maps. everybody can send any single melee map into competition (one map per mapper) as often as he or she likes no mater when it was made, tested, published, patched. once a map has won MotM they can't be proposed again. there is no 2nd or 3rd. only 1st. | ||
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Chriamon
United States886 Posts
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Samro225am
Germany982 Posts
On November 19 2010 02:12 Chriamon wrote: I say, just let anyone vote, provided they send a replay of them playing all of the maps ( a full game, not like 6 pooling on each map). Just limit the entries each month to 3 or 4. and what are the guidelines for such a limitation? which 3 or 4 maps are selected for the competition? or do you want to have a limitation of three of four maps each mapper? that wold be insane. if only mapper contributed that are cappable of producing 4 maps a month, I am unsure what the overall quality would be... On November 19 2010 00:45 Cyber_Cheese wrote: actually now i think about it yea, just making an 'only use each map once rule clears that up alot' editing the op not too fond of that. lets say you have 5 maps that you think have a shot at winning. you send them in in month 1 to 5. none of them wins although they are like 2nd, 3rd or 4th best each month. then you have to produce new maps each month. I know there are some people who do not produce a lt, but good maps. I think MotM is about showcasing quality maps. what i in month 7 there are only few really good entries? and all he really good stuff that was already in the competion once is not alowed anymore? then a maper would propose one of his less good maps >> the overall quality will be lower. if you want to have high quality consistenly then MotM should allow multi-proposing one map. think about it: when people produce something knew they will think about: is this map better than my last? and this is exactly where people will be more critical towards their own maps and start to become better. overall custom melee map quality will be much better then. | ||
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
On November 19 2010 02:12 Chriamon wrote: I say, just let anyone vote, provided they send a replay of them playing all of the maps ( a full game, not like 6 pooling on each map). Just limit the entries each month to 3 or 4. i like the replay idea, but i think just one map is fine. | ||
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TibblesEvilCat
United Kingdom766 Posts
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
On November 19 2010 02:35 TibblesEvilCat wrote: can we dissallow iccup map makers ? they should be able to submit maps as well. | ||
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Shirolol
England504 Posts
On November 19 2010 02:35 TibblesEvilCat wrote: can we dissallow iccup map makers ? That's not really fair, they should be allowed to submit maps.. Iccup or not, if it's a great map we'll all want to see it. Even iccup maps don't get the recognition some of them should, so this is a good chance for them too. | ||
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G_Wen
Canada525 Posts
On November 18 2010 22:15 neobowman wrote: Judging by voting won't work imo. Too many low level players who think a map is good just because it has a natural and a third. I'm more worried it will come down to a matter of which map looks the best, in which case Koagel should be instantly banned from entering and be made a judge. On November 19 2010 02:35 TibblesEvilCat wrote: can we dissallow iccup map makers ? Don't worry, we won't cheat. | ||
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elkram
United States221 Posts
Also, just so that way the MotM actually has some significance, you should probably get together with some sort of tourney, big or small, and let them play on the MotM. I know Day[9] started his Wednesday Night Fights thing, and maybe he wouldn't be too unopposed to having the MotM being one of the maps. Basically, MotM is fine, but if no tournies use it then it is just $5 bucks for the winner and that's it. No further progress in custom maps would be made. You would just wait till voting ended for the next MotM. That's my suggestion. | ||
prodiG
Canada2016 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + yearly map of the month! awesome! I know you guys all want some recognition for your work, but honestly there is no good reason why you can't produce a map of equal or greater quality. If you can't, how does your map deserve a win any more than one of ours? | ||
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
On November 19 2010 03:07 prodiG wrote: I vote nightmarjoo should be one of the judges. + Show Spoiler + yearly map of the month! awesome! I know you guys all want some recognition for your work, but honestly there is no good reason why you can't produce a map of equal or greater quality. If you can't, how does your map deserve a win any more than one of ours? I'm strictly against rules that disallows people to participate. Even the Iccupers aren't perfect so lets compete all together ^^ | ||
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funcmode
Australia720 Posts
On November 19 2010 03:07 prodiG wrote: I vote nightmarjoo should be one of the judges. + Show Spoiler + yearly map of the month! awesome! I know you guys all want some recognition for your work, but honestly there is no good reason why you can't produce a map of equal or greater quality. If you can't, how does your map deserve a win any more than one of ours? It's nothing to do with the quality of the maps, it's about the influence iCCup has. If a competition like this was decided by a public vote I can pretty much guarantee an iCCup map would win every time simply because people who know absolutely nothing about map balance/making maps would vote for it because they assume it's a quality map when realistically it might not actually be the best. If you want a competition like this to be truly fair, some key stipulations would be: 1) Anonymous map entries (author/map name unknown). 2) A panel of judges with zero affiliation to any mapmakers (they shouldn't know anything about who made the maps either). 3) A totally unbiased organiser, who does not take part in judging the competition. | ||
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Samro225am
Germany982 Posts
On November 19 2010 03:43 dezi wrote: I'm strictly against rules that disallows people to participate. Even the Iccupers aren't perfect so lets compete all together ^^ everybody in. blizzard employees working on maps in their free time? total newbies? iccup mapper? all in! seriously, who wants to win a title 'best of economy class'. competing with iicup maps will strengthen the quality of the competition. | ||
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FlopTurnReaver
Switzerland1980 Posts
But seriously, there are 2 camps that would be able to make such a project work without coupling it with tournaments, which are TL and iCCup and I think neither of them will do something about it. I like the optimism of everyone, what I don't like is the "let's do it right now it's gonna be awesome"- attitude. That has the potential of destroying all the motivation when you launch something and it doesn't turn out quite as you imagined it because you didn't take enough time to think it through. But yeah I mean, just give it a try and if it fails miserably it's gonna be forgotten after a few weeks anyway. | ||
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Ongweldt
Sweden54 Posts
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Samro225am
Germany982 Posts
On November 19 2010 03:59 FlopTurnReaver wrote: Oh great, now the topic's just gonna get out of control through tons of ideas, of which a lot are just terrible. Try to find a solution and define the exact course of action publicly in the TL forums, that's gonna work out for sure! But seriously, there are 2 camps that would be able to make such a project work without coupling it with tournaments, which are TL and iCCup and I think neither of them will do something about it. I like the optimism of everyone, what I don't like is the "let's do it right now it's gonna be awesome"- attitude. That has the potential of destroying all the motivation when you launch something and it doesn't turn out quite as you imagined it because you didn't take enough time to think it through. But yeah I mean, just give it a try and if it fails miserably it's gonna be forgotten after a few weeks anyway. although I also have the impression that there are some people who scream for more (easy) attention (for their maps) and who might not be into a really competitive competition, I want to ask you to contribute! TL won't do anything. there you are completely right. but I want to add: unless there are some good ideas that are actually possible. I do not want to leave the idea of a map of the month to try that might fail. lets try to take some control by listing possible options: 1.patron to oversee the competition and support: TL staff or someone who is well known in the community. there is no other option.this person or these persons are responsible for it. so if this project should have a chance to come to being: his is the first and most important point. also there should be a tourney featuring the winner or the three best maps. 2.who can take part: or why are we interested: everybody want to get recognition, playtime, replays and a win. you get the win, when your map is the best map in the competition. A) everybody should be able to propose his map B) no iccup C) no euros...  (seriously the broader the spectrum, the higher the competition and the better the win)> no option here in my opinion. 3.what kind of maps: A) melee B) custom C) melee + custom D) specific mode (e.g. 1v1, 2v2,...) 4.restrictions on number maps: A) map produced in a specific time B) one map per mapmaker C) any number of maps D) x maps 5.how many times can a map be contributed: A) when produced (see 4A) B) once C) twice D) until it takes the win 6. who decides on the winner: A) community vote B) jury C) TL staff D) famous mapper as a representative of mappers ('vote for your judge') E) tourney.organizer F) last month's winner G) any combination of above mentioned what else is important? | ||
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BoomStevo
United States332 Posts
Here's how I see it: The maps should be submitted and then there should be a panel of 3-4 judges. The judges should consist of a respected map maker, a progamer, a TL staff member, and a "guest" judge (last month's winner). There would be submissions each month and the panel would take all of the submissions and they would decide the top maps (3-5). The top maps would be put to a vote for all of Team Liquid to decide the map of the month. In my opinion this is the best compromise and should satisfy everyone's concerns as to how the award is decided. The panel would be able to judge the maps on the correct merits and only the best maps would be put to a vote. We could also create score cards that would decide the best maps. For example, 50 points for game playability, 30 for innovation/creativity, and 20 for aesthetics. Adding up to 100 points, scored by the judges and the maps with the highest point totals would go to a vote. Plus, it would be nice if the judges would place comments on the score cards and they were given back to the map creators so that they could see their scores. The biggest problem is convincing the judges to actually participate by taking the time and effort to judge the maps. Getting respected judges on the panel would be the only way for this competition to see any legitimacy and get the recognition that people want. I think this is a great idea but it needs some endorsement from someone with clout to work. Even if iCCup decided that it would hold a competition where the winning map would be included in the their next month's map pool, I think that would be significant incentive to win. I'd like if the maps were limited to 1v1 melee maps only to make judging easier. In my system, I think that the "top" maps should not be able to submit the same map the following month, but all other maps can be submitted again if they have had changes or revisions. In order to make judging easier I would also think that there should only be one submission per person per month and the winner of the previous month should not be able to submit (especially if they become a guest judge). | ||
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