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[Map] Torrasque - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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Uranium
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1077 Posts
June 30 2010 16:29 GMT
#81
I like the Ultra instead of destructible rocks for the gold expansion. You should remove the gold expo from the nat, though. As stated by others this is a bit imba for Terran... also with only the single gold expo controlling the short path AND the additional resources it will become a fierce battle over that middle ground. But of course you have to get an army big enough to kill the Ultra first.

I really like the tactical opportunities that this map presents. For example if a Protoss decides to rush 3 Zealots and try to take out the Ultra early so he can cannon expand there, Zerg or Terran could easily run in with some T1 units and kill the zealots, then the Ultra, and take the expansion themselves. With good scouting by both players I think the Ultra might actually stay alive for a while as both players will be afraid to engage it for fear of being "ganked".
"Sentry imba! You see? YOU SEE??!!" - Sen | "Marauder die die!" - oGsMC | "Oh my god, she texted me back!" - Day[9]
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
June 30 2010 16:37 GMT
#82
On July 01 2010 01:29 Uranium wrote:
I like the Ultra instead of destructible rocks for the gold expansion. You should remove the gold expo from the nat, though. As stated by others this is a bit imba for Terran... also with only the single gold expo controlling the short path AND the additional resources it will become a fierce battle over that middle ground. But of course you have to get an army big enough to kill the Ultra first.

I really like the tactical opportunities that this map presents. For example if a Protoss decides to rush 3 Zealots and try to take out the Ultra early so he can cannon expand there, Zerg or Terran could easily run in with some T1 units and kill the zealots, then the Ultra, and take the expansion themselves. With good scouting by both players I think the Ultra might actually stay alive for a while as both players will be afraid to engage it for fear of being "ganked".

indeed there is a possiblity gold natural could favor zerg.
the way i see it is that mule is the only aspect which favors terran in this gold expo.
zerg is more favored because zerg
- takes his nat faster
- has less workers out on the map when natural is completed
- is the race that has least trouble taking 3rd base which leads to the zerg being least worried about getting mined out on 2 bases

my general guess about the gold natural is that it favors zerg the most, terran in middle and protoss the least, simply because protoss has no gain in the whole situation

i dont simply want to do the obvious and switch the gold nat with a normal nat. the way i want to balance the map is to keep the same concept and fix the balance issues by touching other elements rather than the actual issue. so lets just assume it favors terran, then later on i can respond by nerfing terran in some other way. u can balance a map in the obvious ways which is to eliminate the issues or u can balance the map by adding new content or tweaking and twisting the already existing concept
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
Cynoks
Profile Joined May 2010
United States87 Posts
June 30 2010 16:52 GMT
#83
T could just lift off and take the nat first so I would say there isn't that much of a difference between balance for T and Z.
emikochan
Profile Joined July 2009
United Kingdom232 Posts
June 30 2010 18:06 GMT
#84
Very interesting concept, can't wait to give this a shot... We need to really break away from the norm at this early stage of map-making in sc2, just so we can test what will and won't work with the new mechanics..

MorroW is a mapping hero ^^
I can imagine the dark swarm / disruption webs being replaced by hostile PDDs and unique LOS blocker use on city maps for example
Probes need love too.
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
June 30 2010 18:27 GMT
#85
Maps do not get remembered if they are really good strategically. They get remembered if there is something unique. Andromeda had cliffs that were connected to its main via DRs for harassment towards the natural. That's why I remember Andromeda. Triathlon had arbiter's cloaking eggs as a path blocker. That's why I remember Triathlon. God's Garden had an in base expo with cliffs for harass, but not at the normal natural. Blistering Sands I think everyone will remember because of the backdoor option.

And everyone will remember this map - its creativity in having a high yield natural (which I don't think will catch on as a trend) and an Ultralisk guarding the quickest path to your enemy will make sure of that.

I wouldn't have ever thought to have an Ultralisk guarding the quickest path. Great job, MorroW!
Fincheronious
Profile Joined June 2010
United States37 Posts
June 30 2010 18:30 GMT
#86
Am I the only one who looked at this map and immediately saw an ultralisk's face? I don't know if that was intentional but it definitely looks like one.
setzer
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3284 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 18:38:17
June 30 2010 18:35 GMT
#87
Neutral units/structures are fine, but I do not want to have to creep, like in WC3, in order to get to my opponent or secure a base. How does the ultralisk affect things like bunker rushing? A really fast expo should be punishable, but that might not be possible just because an ultralisk forces you to take the longest path.

I like the concept of adding the gold minerals to the natural, but the downside is that your natural will be mined out a lot faster.
WarChimp
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Australia943 Posts
June 30 2010 18:37 GMT
#88
Great map, but what significance does a hostile unit have in StarCraft 2 Melee maps? This isn't WarCraft 3, you don't have a hero to level up? It just seems like a waste of time and would just get in the way of an actual battle especially if its like uber strong haha.... But I wouldn't know.... I haven't played the map.
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 18:37:46
June 30 2010 18:37 GMT
#89
On July 01 2010 03:35 setzer wrote:
Neutral units/structures are fine, but I do not want to have to creep, like in WC3, in order to get to my opponent or secure a base. I like the concept of adding the gold minerals to the natural, but the downside is that your natural will be mined out a lot faster.


Yeah Morrow you should make it so that if the Ultra dies so does the creep tumor (if possible).

EDIT: Sorry for asking so much - I just really want to see that happen
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
June 30 2010 18:44 GMT
#90
Im not sure if this has been answered? but if the ultra is just normal str id recommend making it stronger say..1250 hp? rocks have 2k dont they, but since this can attack it doesnt deserve that much life.

maybe a stronger attack too
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 19:15:21
June 30 2010 19:12 GMT
#91
On July 01 2010 03:35 setzer wrote:
Neutral units/structures are fine, but I do not want to have to creep, like in WC3, in order to get to my opponent or secure a base. How does the ultralisk affect things like bunker rushing? A really fast expo should be punishable, but that might not be possible just because an ultralisk forces you to take the longest path.

I like the concept of adding the gold minerals to the natural, but the downside is that your natural will be mined out a lot faster.

you know what else prevents bunker rushing?
+ Show Spoiler +
destructible rocks, look at scrap station. r u starting to see how much alike this ultralisk fellow are to destructible blockers now? its idiotic to say the ultralisk dont belong because u want to bunker rush. u can bunker rush at any most maps its not like its a must, personally i never bunker rush and i do just fine without it lol. its like saying maps cant have long distances because u want 6pool to work


On July 01 2010 03:44 arb wrote:
Im not sure if this has been answered? but if the ultra is just normal str id recommend making it stronger say..1250 hp? rocks have 2k dont they, but since this can attack it doesnt deserve that much life.

maybe a stronger attack too

its impossible to edit unit stats in melee mode, else it would be interesting to change the hp and name of it :d and ye its been said about 3 times already in this thread

On July 01 2010 03:37 Antares777 wrote:
Yeah Morrow you should make it so that if the Ultra dies so does the creep tumor (if possible).

EDIT: Sorry for asking so much - I just really want to see that happen

uve said that about 5 times already in this thread. ive already told u this is custom map with triggers, cant do this in melee and i dont want to do it. you should learn to read before asking and requesting same thing over and over, its really starting to get annoying ;p
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
June 30 2010 19:25 GMT
#92
It's difficult to tell from the map picture, does the creep tumor block the expo from being placed for zerg? If not I'd strongly recommend moving the tumor closer to the minerals so it blocks a zerg expo.
Logo
NastyMarine
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States1252 Posts
June 30 2010 19:26 GMT
#93
MorroW is it possible to block unit pathing for Hostile units only? I'd surround the creep tumor and creep with pathing blockers so the Torrasque cannot leave that center area. Just a suggestion
Treatin' fools since '87
setzer
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3284 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 20:10:21
June 30 2010 20:09 GMT
#94
On July 01 2010 04:12 MorroW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2010 03:35 setzer wrote:
Neutral units/structures are fine, but I do not want to have to creep, like in WC3, in order to get to my opponent or secure a base. How does the ultralisk affect things like bunker rushing? A really fast expo should be punishable, but that might not be possible just because an ultralisk forces you to take the longest path.

I like the concept of adding the gold minerals to the natural, but the downside is that your natural will be mined out a lot faster.

you know what else prevents bunker rushing?
+ Show Spoiler +
destructible rocks, look at scrap station. r u starting to see how much alike this ultralisk fellow are to destructible blockers now? its idiotic to say the ultralisk dont belong because u want to bunker rush. u can bunker rush at any most maps its not like its a must, personally i never bunker rush and i do just fine without it lol. its like saying maps cant have long distances because u want 6pool to work


That was just one example (a bad one, I guess), but I personally would not want a hostile creep destroying my rallying points for any early game pressure/harassment. Units will always take the shortest possible path to their destination, so at least with rocks I do not have to worry about a (possible) superunit killing off my attempt to punish greed builds.
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 20:18:07
June 30 2010 20:12 GMT
#95
Potential, but I would defintely like to see the watch towers not on raised ground so an easier flank could occur, atm it seems like most SC2 maps are going 180 from the direction SC1 maps went, and are unncessarily cluttered simply because designers feel that they need to have something... everywhere...

On July 01 2010 05:09 setzer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2010 04:12 MorroW wrote:
On July 01 2010 03:35 setzer wrote:
Neutral units/structures are fine, but I do not want to have to creep, like in WC3, in order to get to my opponent or secure a base. How does the ultralisk affect things like bunker rushing? A really fast expo should be punishable, but that might not be possible just because an ultralisk forces you to take the longest path.

I like the concept of adding the gold minerals to the natural, but the downside is that your natural will be mined out a lot faster.

you know what else prevents bunker rushing?
+ Show Spoiler +
destructible rocks, look at scrap station. r u starting to see how much alike this ultralisk fellow are to destructible blockers now? its idiotic to say the ultralisk dont belong because u want to bunker rush. u can bunker rush at any most maps its not like its a must, personally i never bunker rush and i do just fine without it lol. its like saying maps cant have long distances because u want 6pool to work


That was just one example (a bad one, I guess), but I personally would not want a hostile creep destroying my rallying points for any early game pressure/harassment. Units will always take the shortest possible path to their destination, so at least with rocks I do not have to worry about a (possible) superunit killing off my attempt to punish greed builds.



Then don't rally point through the Ultralisk route...? It's a feature of the map, and it just sounds like you're complaining that you cba to make the rally point take the other route, which is not too time consuming.
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
June 30 2010 20:14 GMT
#96
On July 01 2010 04:26 NastyMarine wrote:
MorroW is it possible to block unit pathing for Hostile units only? I'd surround the creep tumor and creep with pathing blockers so the Torrasque cannot leave that center area. Just a suggestion

ah i dont believe that is possible

after the testing i made the ultralisk will turn around right when the cave ends

worst case scenario ill add a small rock in each cave passage so basically ultralisks/thors cant enter/exit
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
aeoliant
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada361 Posts
June 30 2010 20:26 GMT
#97
I like the ultralisk thing. I was trying to achieve the same block with force fields but I couldn't get them to last. The best part is that choke is unpassable until late game and you can still fit a base in there as opposed to destructible rocks need a 3x3 choke T think. Also it does add game mechanics. If you have equal armies, the one who takes the shortcut will be weakened and probably lose the upcoming battle. Or if you go around the other guy will have more time to build more units and he'll have the xelnaga scout.
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
June 30 2010 20:30 GMT
#98
On July 01 2010 05:26 aeoliant wrote:
I like the ultralisk thing. I was trying to achieve the same block with force fields but I couldn't get them to last. The best part is that choke is unpassable until late game and you can still fit a base in there as opposed to destructible rocks need a 3x3 choke T think. Also it does add game mechanics. If you have equal armies, the one who takes the shortcut will be weakened and probably lose the upcoming battle. Or if you go around the other guy will have more time to build more units and he'll have the xelnaga scout.


I think it'd totally be badass to have forcefields flickering on and off - a big wall of like 7 or 8 appearing and staying there every ~10 seconds (staying there for a full 2 seconds maybe). Would screw up retreating options, give a good place to hold ground, screw up mass armies moving through that way.

If they did a map like Plasma they could do a map like that^^ (in terms of balance, not feasibility haha).
XBLancer
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States19 Posts
June 30 2010 20:36 GMT
#99
Tarrasque: Beast from D&D role-playing game

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarrasque_(Dungeons_&_Dragons)

Torrasque: Starcraft Hero Ultralisk unit that occasionally haunts my nightmares.

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Torrasque

Awesome map though, although wouldn't Terran have a huge advantage economically since they can use MULES?
GenesisX
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada4267 Posts
June 30 2010 20:41 GMT
#100
Encourages fast expansions, which I like
2nd path leading into the main may be a problem, consider moving rocks onto the ramp.
Air distance is EXTREMELY CLOSE.
Other than that, it looks really good
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