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Who is the best 'foreigner'? - Page 10

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
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gosublade
Profile Joined May 2011
632 Posts
July 18 2012 20:55 GMT
#181
It's obviously more of a likeability poll than something else.
Not even death can save you from me.
Proxee
Profile Joined September 2011
63 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 20:59:12
July 18 2012 20:58 GMT
#182
On July 18 2012 14:44 Euronyme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 14:39 Zebrapudding wrote:
HuK.. in my opinion he is the foreigner with the most total wins


He hasn't been doing well recently. He was even beaten by a fairly unknown 14 year old in his MLG qualifiers.


Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 14:42 mahO wrote:
On July 18 2012 14:28 JJH777 wrote:
On July 18 2012 14:21 Benjamin99 wrote:
On July 18 2012 14:13 power-overwhelming wrote:
Naniwa. Stephano's zvp is being hyped here too much. Starcraft has 3 races last time I checked. His zvz and zvt still isn't close to code S level. If he was in GSL I doubt he'd make it out of first group stages. The not-so-famous koreans would still beat him. Only top tier korean he has beaten recently is MC and that is a zvp, not to mention their last series MC won. Naniwa has proven himself in pvp, pvt, and pvz.

The stephano hype is just fueld by foreigner hope/ anti-korean bandwagons that jump for joy at any opportunity a foreigner wins a tourny, and in this case, it's more so stephano than naniwa (since naniwa is glued to GSL)


Seriously once again people are just rabbling without checking the facts. I dont understand this is starcraft 2 we got some of the most amasing stat tools available to us so why not use it so you dont look like a fool when you try to express youself

Stephano´s last 10 ZvT matches in Lan tournament settings

Stephano vs Keen 2-0
Stephano vs Morrow 2-0
Stephano vs Puma 2-0
Stephano vs MKP 1-2
Stephano vs Rain 2-1
Stephano vs Ganzi 2-0
Stephano vs Polt 2-1
Stephano vs Rain 2-0
Stephano vs Heart 2-1
Stephano vs Ryung 2-0

Thats 9 wins 1 lose and most of them are code S. Stephano´s ZvT lvl is as high as any other top zerg. Matter infact the only one he havent beat is MKP. And the last 2 times they meet it has been so close.



Most of them are Code S.... Sure if by most you mean 3/10 and he lost to one of those. Also how many of those are post queen buff? ZvT is only just now starting to get balanced again. Any Terrans he beat within a few weeks to a month of that buff are pretty meaningless games.


Yeah, obviously, any zerg would take games off MKP, beat Ganzi, Rain, Ryung, Heart, Puma, Keen, Morrow 2-0 for most of them, because of the queen buff, I mean it's obvious that his 28 queens opening made him massacre very very well known and respected GSL players. I mean shit, anyone could do that with a 5 ranged queen right.
How stupid was that coment, seriously, these are the very top korean terrans that travel out of Korea, because they know they have a shot at earning money in the most competitive tournaments on the planet, they are not fucking around, and you still want to disregard the repeated 2-0s, what the hell did Stephano do to you when you were little?


To be fair it was a pretty huge nerf to Terran in TvZ.
The fact that they travel from korea means that they're jet lagged, which is not a good thing for their play either.


To be fair Stephano also has to play while jet lagged. Why does everyone make it seem like Koreans are the only people jet lagged.
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
July 18 2012 21:06 GMT
#183
On July 19 2012 05:49 Lineridarz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 04:11 Acquire wrote:
On July 19 2012 03:54 4ZakeN87 wrote:
I think Stephano but it is kind of close. If Naniwa could show he has overall improved his PvZ I might shift towards Naniwa.

However I think the fact that the poll is called "is Naniwa or Stephano the best foreigner" saying a lot. 90% of all votes think one of these players are the best foreigner as of now. I think Nerchio, Thorzain and Sase could make an argument but still they have a bit left to compete with Naniwa and Stephano for that title.



Haha wouldn't that make Naniwa better? Opponents are given equal amount of time to prepare against each other yet stephano can't make it to the round of 8 of the most prestigious sc2 tournament.

aka what i am trying to say is Stephano is his weakest link because he doesn't practice as much making his opponent better then him.

Stephano has more "skill" as he is very good at going against random players (not preparing specifically for each opponent) and still crushing them. This is why MVP consistently does badly (for 4-time GSL winning standards) in foreign tournaments, but still crushes in GSL-type tournaments. This does not mean either one of these "types" of players is better than the other, if it came down to a showmatch, Naniwa would pretty handily defeat stephano because he has that experience in preparing for a specific opponent and map.


And when it comes down to playing in the best tournaments (GSL/OSL) you've to get good at prep, that's where mind games and strategies really shine.
Zest fanboy.
GoonFFS
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark323 Posts
July 18 2012 21:18 GMT
#184
Stephano obviously has to prove himself in code s before he can even come close to naniwa imo
http://konvictgaming.com/ -> @KrugerFFS
rckY
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany116 Posts
July 18 2012 21:22 GMT
#185
On July 19 2012 06:18 GoonFFS wrote:
Stephano obviously has to prove himself in code s before he can even come close to naniwa imo


this.
AndAgain
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2621 Posts
July 18 2012 21:37 GMT
#186
On July 19 2012 06:18 GoonFFS wrote:
Stephano obviously has to prove himself in code s before he can even come close to naniwa imo


Does handily beating code S players many times count for anything?
All your teeth should fall out and hair should grow in their place!
Fanatic-Templar
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada5819 Posts
July 18 2012 21:41 GMT
#187
On July 19 2012 06:37 AndAgain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 06:18 GoonFFS wrote:
Stephano obviously has to prove himself in code s before he can even come close to naniwa imo


Does handily beating code S players many times count for anything?


It does. It counts for a lot. But it does not count for as much as good, consistent performance in the toughest league in StarCraft II.
I bear this sig to commemorate the loss of the team icon that commemorated Oversky's 2008-2009 Proleague Round 1 performance.
Kreggar
Profile Joined September 2011
United States83 Posts
July 18 2012 21:42 GMT
#188
I'm going for Stephano simply because he has won several events by traveling around the globe, while Naniwa has shown most of his success by staying in Korea for the GSL only. It is sort of like two sides to the same coin, but I personally think winning events while traveling regularly is more impressive than simply staying in one place to do well in one tournament.
I also like Stephano more purely because I've gotten to meet and party with him both times he has come to my town, and he has a funny "celebrity" kind of personality that is cool to have in the community. He gets arrested for getting too drunk, then during NASL tweets about staying sober so he can crush the tourney, then he proceeds to crush and celebrate like a boss afterward.
StarCraft is the hardest, most beautiful game in the world.
NexCa
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany954 Posts
July 18 2012 22:01 GMT
#189
On July 18 2012 09:47 tredogz wrote:
IDRA .. . all the way!


lol, that gave me a smile :D
Best Protoss Player 4 ever - Bisu[Shield] || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=326242 || THIS IS WHERE WE STAND, THIS IS WHERE THEY FALL, GIVE THEM NOTHING, BUT TAKE FROM THEM EVERYTHING ! || SKT FIGHTIIING
JeffGoldblum
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Cook Islands191 Posts
July 18 2012 22:12 GMT
#190
On July 19 2012 06:37 AndAgain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 06:18 GoonFFS wrote:
Stephano obviously has to prove himself in code s before he can even come close to naniwa imo


Does handily beating code S players many times count for anything?


He does it in tournaments that last for 3 or less days. Tournaments in which very specific preparation barely exists.
I'm Jeff Goldblum
Benjamin99
Profile Joined April 2012
4176 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 22:15:58
July 18 2012 22:15 GMT
#191
On July 19 2012 07:12 JeffGoldblum wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 06:37 AndAgain wrote:
On July 19 2012 06:18 GoonFFS wrote:
Stephano obviously has to prove himself in code s before he can even come close to naniwa imo


Does handily beating code S players many times count for anything?


He does it in tournaments that last for 3 or less days. Tournaments in which very specific preparation barely exists.


Hmm, didnt he just win NASL where the players had weeks in advance to know who they played against?

You post doesnt make sence
Stephano & Jaedong <-- The Pain Train. Polt and Innovation to EG plz
Irave
Profile Joined October 2010
United States9965 Posts
July 18 2012 22:30 GMT
#192
On July 19 2012 07:15 Benjamin99 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 07:12 JeffGoldblum wrote:
On July 19 2012 06:37 AndAgain wrote:
On July 19 2012 06:18 GoonFFS wrote:
Stephano obviously has to prove himself in code s before he can even come close to naniwa imo


Does handily beating code S players many times count for anything?


He does it in tournaments that last for 3 or less days. Tournaments in which very specific preparation barely exists.


Hmm, didnt he just win NASL where the players had weeks in advance to know who they played against?

You post doesnt make sence

The only person he knew he was going to play for sure was HerO. So his post makes plenty of sense. Its a different world in the GSL, Give HerO/MC the GSL schedule against Stephano, he will likely lose. Even with current ZvP.
Svenoob
Profile Joined January 2012
France10 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 22:35:20
July 18 2012 22:31 GMT
#193
Naniwa is a nice gamer who works a lot, but Stephano is on another planet. Crushing Beastyqt, Hero (who just demolished DRG few days before), MC and Alicia 4-0 in a huge final with so much ease... that's just unreal. Nowadays Naniwa can't think about winning a bo5 against Stephano, he just can't...
EDIT: @Irave you're wrong, Hero (who's a player who works SOOOO much) was extremly prepared against Stephano, and MC knows exactly his gamestyle and how to play him. He was just better, that's all.
-HuntedWater-
Profile Joined February 2011
Norway28 Posts
July 18 2012 22:43 GMT
#194
I don't like naniwa. But that has nothing to do with me thinking stephano is better.
Mid-High masters on korea! twitch.tv/hunted
sLothh
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden38 Posts
July 18 2012 22:46 GMT
#195
Naniwa is by far the best foreigner!
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
July 18 2012 23:19 GMT
#196
On July 18 2012 10:36 zanga wrote:
Why even compare? It makes no sense.

When stephano gets two Code S ro8 in a row we can start comparing apples and apples. It's not easy when youre alone against all the koreans in Seoul and "everyone" are trying to make you lose...

NANIWA > *

(also, Zerg is pretty good at the moment btw, you decide if thats relevant)


LOL.

Naniwa had pretty "easy" runs if you compare it with code S standards. Stephano on the same brackets? EASY ro8 for him... Stephano is clearly the best foreigner atm...

code S isnt all that counts - not at all.
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
Fanatic-Templar
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada5819 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 23:58:50
July 18 2012 23:55 GMT
#197
On July 19 2012 08:19 KalWarkov wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 10:36 zanga wrote:
Why even compare? It makes no sense.

When stephano gets two Code S ro8 in a row we can start comparing apples and apples. It's not easy when youre alone against all the koreans in Seoul and "everyone" are trying to make you lose...

NANIWA > *

(also, Zerg is pretty good at the moment btw, you decide if thats relevant)


LOL.

Naniwa had pretty "easy" runs if you compare it with code S standards. Stephano on the same brackets? EASY ro8 for him... Stephano is clearly the best foreigner atm...

code S isnt all that counts - not at all.


Here's what I got from checking Liquipedia:

Naniwa's "easy" GSL runs:

Puzzle, Ryung, Genius, Supernova, loss to MVP.
Nestea, Creator, Keen, Genius, loss to Dongraegu.

Stephano's "difficult" non-GSL runs from 2012:

NASL: Beastyqt, Hero, MC, Alicia
Dreamhack Summer: Tails (the Swedish one), Mojagy, Puma, Daisy, freizy, Morrow, Huk, Keen, Nerchio, loss to Mana.
MLG Spring Arena: Ryung, Ret, MC, Heart, losses to Violet and Symbol.
Assembly Winter: Mana, NightEnd, Happy (the Russian one), Real, elfi, Puma, loss to Polt.
Red Bull Battlegrounds: Violet, Illusion, Ganzi, Parting, loss to MC.
Lone Star Clash: Hawk, Grubby, White-Ra, Polt.

What would you say are the strongest opponents either defeated? How many easy players did they have to go through?
I bear this sig to commemorate the loss of the team icon that commemorated Oversky's 2008-2009 Proleague Round 1 performance.
duk3
Profile Joined September 2010
United States807 Posts
July 19 2012 00:27 GMT
#198
NaNiwa.
I want to see Stephano in Code S before I start calling him the best.
Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.
ScaringKids
Profile Joined November 2010
Portugal819 Posts
July 19 2012 00:30 GMT
#199
On July 18 2012 09:37 Iddqdish wrote:
on the fly - Stephano
if there is time to prepare for 1 match - Naniwa


This.
MC | NesTea | Jaedong | PartinG | Liquid'HerO | MvP | Flash | White-Ra | Polt | Squirtle |
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
July 19 2012 00:43 GMT
#200
On July 19 2012 08:55 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 08:19 KalWarkov wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:36 zanga wrote:
Why even compare? It makes no sense.

When stephano gets two Code S ro8 in a row we can start comparing apples and apples. It's not easy when youre alone against all the koreans in Seoul and "everyone" are trying to make you lose...

NANIWA > *

(also, Zerg is pretty good at the moment btw, you decide if thats relevant)


LOL.

Naniwa had pretty "easy" runs if you compare it with code S standards. Stephano on the same brackets? EASY ro8 for him... Stephano is clearly the best foreigner atm...

code S isnt all that counts - not at all.


Here's what I got from checking Liquipedia:

Naniwa's "easy" GSL runs:

Puzzle, Ryung, Genius, Supernova, loss to MVP.
Nestea, Creator, Keen, Genius, loss to Dongraegu.

Stephano's "difficult" non-GSL runs from 2012:

NASL: Beastyqt, Hero, MC, Alicia
Dreamhack Summer: Tails (the Swedish one), Mojagy, Puma, Daisy, freizy, Morrow, Huk, Keen, Nerchio, loss to Mana.
MLG Spring Arena: Ryung, Ret, MC, Heart, losses to Violet and Symbol.
Assembly Winter: Mana, NightEnd, Happy (the Russian one), Real, elfi, Puma, loss to Polt.
Red Bull Battlegrounds: Violet, Illusion, Ganzi, Parting, loss to MC.
Lone Star Clash: Hawk, Grubby, White-Ra, Polt.

What would you say are the strongest opponents either defeated? How many easy players did they have to go through?


how about including naniwas dreamhack performance? stephano never dissappoints, in fact he wouldve probably won most tournaments if he wouldnt get wasted before the finals day... like saw that at dreamhack? he slept on a couch at 6 pm next to 2GD... just an example. he IS the best foreigner, whoever says differently overrates code S a bit.
Code S is the hardest tournament - yes. but u can also get far without being the best in that format. as we saw with HuK before...
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
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