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Why no one has brought up this?
In Bo3 or any other Bo matches, if one player has enough wins that he has already won, the other matches are cancelled, because its clear that 1 player cant win anymore.
Whats the difference in here?
Its the same just that its now in tournament format with more then 2 players.
If you gonna force games like that you must force Bo-s to be played until end.
To transition this into people who say (omg Naniwa you must play cos we say so) you also agree that any Bo which has been already decided must be played until end. So the next GSL finals when x player is winning already 4:0 they must play until 7 games are played because fans wants so and that way they get more publicity and esports.
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I don't see what all this beef is... Although it would've been a great "show match" the game meant nothing, he should've just went dual proxy gate ways, that way noone would've been able to say anything negative about it. The fact that he was punished for throwing a worthless game is ridiculous; and after losing such close close games I completely understand his mentality.
Atleast he made people laugh with his play, what other pro has ever done that?  .
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On December 17 2011 19:30 Humunuk wrote:
Why no one has brought up this?
In Bo3 or any other Bo matches, if one player has enough wins that he has already won, the other matches are cancelled, because its clear that 1 player cant win anymore.
Whats the difference in here?
Assuming that in a bo3 nobody probe rushed twice in a row, then you'd have seen some games and the "contest" between the players is "resolved" through the better player coming out ahead.
There was no "contest" and he essentially threw the game.
Despite an entire thread full of comments, the community seems to show that at least 4x as many wanted to see the game as didn't care and twice as many people found the action completely unacceptable compared to those that found it completely understandable.
Essentially competitions are put on for the benefit of the spectator; the spectators here are saying they prefer to see a match of starcraft than no match, regardless of the stakes for the players involved.
The sponsors of these tournaments have already committed money to the events to give them value for their money. If you don't play your match, you dissapoint the majority of the spectators and lower the intrinsic value of the tournie for the sponsors. This isn't even debateable now with the results of the poll.
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On December 17 2011 19:30 Humunuk wrote:
Why no one has brought up this?
In Bo3 or any other Bo matches, if one player has enough wins that he has already won, the other matches are cancelled, because its clear that 1 player cant win anymore.
Whats the difference in here?
Its the same just that its now in tournament format with more then 2 players.
If you gonna force games like that you must force Bo-s to be played until end.
To transition this into people who say (omg Naniwa you must play cos we say so) you also agree that any Bo which has been already decided must be played until end. So the next GSL finals when x player is winning already 4:0 they must play until 7 games are played because fans wants so and that way they get more publicity and esports.
That's an interesting comparison. I think it's ultimately clear that the bo1 group format for the blizzard cup wasn't the best.
But you have to understand, especially for koreans, this isn't about the syllogism of Naniwa's decision. There is an inherent sense of respect and expectation in the korean scene. Much more so than in most other countries. What Naniwa did wasn't wrong, but it was disrespectful and rude. It's not the quantity of games played or the publicity generated, it's about generating the best available competition from the best players. Many koreans would rather see MVP 4:0 roflstomp some random in a finals than see a 4:3 "close series" because the situation was designed to produce as many games as possible. You have to understand the koreans have different values to some other cultures. That's where most of the conflict has come from. Naniwa had his reasons, which were understandable, but he has to realise that he needs to take into consideration more than just himself. He had fans, sponsors, and a reputation to uphold. He cannot just go around, especially in korea, only caring about tournament results.
What's most disappointing is that Naniwa didn't even play smart. It was mindless. People may understand a 2gate proxy or a 4gate or even a cannon rush, but the rush was obviously just a forfeit. The koreans know that, and perhaps that above all was what was most insulting. He didn't even try to disguise it. I think Naniwa had to learn a lesson like this, hopefully others can learn from it.
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i find he shouldent of gotten a punishment . let his punishement be the group of death.  in code s
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Terrible what he did. In my opinion he should be banned from sc2 tournaments for at least 6 months.
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he got kicked from sooo many teams and events, so he is experienced to deal with this situation.
will he learn from it? i hope, but i don´t think so.
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naniwa showing no respect imo
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On December 17 2011 06:46 DerNebel wrote:
Probe rush is a legit strat imo. It has a pretty high win percentage from my own ladder experience.
Seriously though, you guys act like spoiled kids. You can't demand that the players put on an empty show for you, if that is the case then you would be fine with all sorts of matchfixing as well. If you can ignore the fact that a match is purely for show and that the players aren't really trying, you're not really far from watching matchfixed games where you know it's a show and the players aren't really trying.
Spoiled kids? We expect to see what we paid for. If you buy a hamburger at a restaurant, and all you get is two pieces of bread, would you appriciate that? It's essensially the same. Matchfixing and throwing a game is two vastly different things. You are ignorant and prejudiced if you really believe we all are fine with matchfixing if we demand players doing what they signed up for.
Anyhow, this incident changed my view of NaNiwa. Not until I see dollar signs in his eyes I can't be sure if he is putting his soul and heart into his game. He puts his personal interests above everyone elses - that includes fans, sponsors, quanticgaming, spectators and those who organise the given tournament. I'm pretty sure Complexity is happy for dodging this bullet, and Mvp expressed their releif at twitter. I hope Quanticgaming can rise again after this incident and produce results - with or without NaNiwa.
NaNiwa needs to change his mentality, or else he will lose support from fans, teams and sponsors. Wouldn't be supriced if certain teams have crossed him off their wishlist.
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i dislike the QUESTION
what do i dislike ? naniwa ? the reaction of gom ?
i dont know what the question means itself
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On December 14 2011 00:54 Turboteckel wrote:I agree with this guy. There's no reason for anyone to spend money on Naniwa if this is what you get.
He messed up bad and fully deserves these consequences. People payed to watch that match. The teams train hard to play as hard as they can. He showed nothing but disrespect for both the game, his team, GSL, and himself. I hope he is shut down for a good long while before allowing him to play again professionally. BIG disappointment and a huge loss of respect here.
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On December 18 2011 06:08 Link_Drako wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:54 Turboteckel wrote:On December 14 2011 00:41 Vansetsu wrote:
snip I agree with this guy. There's no reason for anyone to spend money on Naniwa if this is what you get. He messed up bad and fully deserves these consequences. People payed to watch that match. The teams train hard to play as hard as they can. He showed nothing but disrespect for both the game, his team, GSL, and himself. I hope he is shut down for a good long while before allowing him to play again professionally. BIG disappointment and a huge loss of respect here.
When you buy the ticket you buy it for the tournament, not a singel match. Perhaps you should ask yourself why meaningless games are never played in the GSL. Should Naniwa have realized that GOM all of the sudden care about meaningless games? Maybe. Maybe not.
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Games that dont matter shouldn't be played. It is a waste of everybody's time.
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it was a meaningless game, he probably should have "tried" just for the show of it but i blame the tournament, why force someone to play a meaningless game when they're already out
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If your self-importance is so ridiculously high; You take great offence and produce a knee-jerk "punishment".
The cause of the heavy-handed smackdown?
A ridiculous, unacceptable issue being brought to light publically. These are professional tournament organisers, their jobs, livelihood, and entire business model relies on them pre-empting these problems.
I think the predominant emotion at play here is not 'respect' or the lack thereof. But rather, embarassment. It's one thing to have issues with your format, it's a completely different thing to have your dirty laundry aired so brutally.
Naniwa made them look bad with the way he expressed his distaste for the format. Really, though...what could have happened differently?
If/when he exposed the issue privately, and what response he received, we can't know.
What I know, is that a reflexive, thoughtless 'punishment' is a ludicrous result.
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On December 13 2011 23:43 carloselcoco wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:11 Grimmjow wrote:
such a big deal over a match that meant nothing in this tournament.. Still means a lot for sponsors and teams though. Quantic and GomTV are paying Nani to play, not give up for free his game.
Not to mention it's disrepectful to Nestea.
I am happy he didn't get seeded into Code S, he shown such pppor sportsmanship...
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Think of the producers&sponspor's perspetive
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People often refer to SC2 as a sport and if the community really wants SC2 to be treated as a sport then these kinds of things simply can't be allowed. It is a waste of time for everyone, the people tuning into the stream, the people paying money for tickets, the commentators, the people who have travelled to Korea to watch some good matches of SC and the sponsors are all totally let down. I understand that he is frustrated from the outcomes of the previous games but when you are on the global stage you need to show a level of professionalism.
I am actually very surprised that a lot of people are ok with this. If a player or a team in any other sport deliberately threw away a game there would be serious consequences in the form of penalties and fines.
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On December 17 2011 19:30 Humunuk wrote:
Why no one has brought up this?
In Bo3 or any other Bo matches, if one player has enough wins that he has already won, the other matches are cancelled, because its clear that 1 player cant win anymore.
Whats the difference in here?
Its the same just that its now in tournament format with more then 2 players.
If you gonna force games like that you must force Bo-s to be played until end.
To transition this into people who say (omg Naniwa you must play cos we say so) you also agree that any Bo which has been already decided must be played until end. So the next GSL finals when x player is winning already 4:0 they must play until 7 games are played because fans wants so and that way they get more publicity and esports.
The difference here is that this was the end of the year tournament, you got to see the best of the best competing against eachother. Not finishing the last games of a BOx is not comparible because then you are skipping games between players you've already seen... In this case the fans got screwed out of a proper game between Nestea and Naniwa which after the fuss at MLG would have been nice to see. The reason this was so bad and thus so stupid from naniwa was:
- he didn't just 6 pool but proberushed, the most humiliating thing you can do basically. 6 pool is a valid strategy at least proberushing is just saying i don't care about this game and playing against you.
- it was a high profile tournament and all attention was on them. It's not some random tournament where multiple matches are streamed at the same time or the pool play has some relatively unknown players..
- Naniwa behaved poorly against Nestea before who was denied the proper right for a grudge match now.
- It was in Korea, where match throwing and honor are much more important.
- He got paid to play in the tournament regardless of result...
I can understand the unlucky setup for the tournament but he should have gotten over it and at least made some sort of an effort for the audience. If he had done some silly thing like mothership rushing it wouldn't have been bad because he would have at least tried to entertain the audience. What he did now was extremely rude, stupid and unsportsmanlike.
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Did not like it but I understand his view on things!
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EPT
