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What do you think of Naniwa vs Nestea? - Page 12

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
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GreenFaction
Profile Joined June 2010
United States82 Posts
December 16 2011 19:01 GMT
#221
On December 14 2011 00:41 Vansetsu wrote:
While I understand the point of saving your best play for the matches you think are important, and that players somewhat "throw matches" in these situations otherwise, not trying is absolutely unacceptable.

Even if you aren't going to waste/reveal your super secret timing attack, you should still play out the game.
Even if you are tilted, you should still try to play a game.
Even if you don't give a fuck about anything but results, you should still at the least put on a show.

Why?

Because your career revolves around shows, fans, and other interests. You can absolutely not give a fuck about them and still have some sort of symbiotic relationship, as douchebag-ish as it might be.

But blatantly not trying is blatantly saying:

"I honestly don't give a fuck about my fans that support me, I honestly don't give a fuck about my team that supports me and that I represent vicariously, I honestly don't give a fuck about the prestigious tournament organization that by simply existing supports the legitimacy of me even playing this game "professionally"(that exists solely because people don't consistently do the bullshit I just did).

Indeed, it basically says "If I don't win, then everyone, including everyone who supports me, can go fuck themselves until I am in a position to win something again --- at that point please forget my giant FU and again support me monetarily or as a fan.

If you can't think beyond the immediate "well he was out anyways derp" part of the whole thing, then you ignore the fact that great "showings" are part of what makes sc2 e-sports the growing, entertaining, and viable thing it is today. Of course it is one small incident, but small incidents are where precedents should start.

Does this type of thing do any permanent damage? Not really. But it certainly shows what kind of person Naniwa is. It should also makes it easy to see that if all high tier pros had Nani's mentality, the sport would actually just suck to watch.

I am(was) the biggest Naniwa fan. He really can be quite genius at times and show some remarkable play. But he is absolutely not a sportsman, which is also even more important during a time when e-sports are something that are trying to be considered "sport" in mainstream culture.


This person is absolutely right. I couldn't agree more. Exactly. You said it.
gg
asdfTT123
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States989 Posts
December 16 2011 19:23 GMT
#222
To the people who chose "completely unacceptable", do you think you are entitled to anything as a spectator? Seriously, get over yourself - you have no idea how stressful and the impact of being on stage and then losing really close games has on you.
n.Die_Jaedong <3
vandistal
Profile Joined December 2011
1 Post
December 16 2011 20:20 GMT
#223
Hi all. I joined TL today just to comment on this post because I felt strongly about it. I don't think the poll adequately reflected all the options. I would have chosen the, "Was hilarious and funny and definitely more entertaining than a usual GSL match when nothing was on the line," option. I must be in the minority, but I thought it was funny, humorous, and a nice change of pace to see a pro "all-in" with his workers on "national" tv. That's pretty ballsy and it adds character to the many players we have to keep track of.

Thinking more on it, if GomTv was paying him money to appear in the Blizzard Cup then I can understand why they'd be upset with him. Quantic Gaming should be more upset that he was 0-3 and in the position to begin with instead of what he did in an otherwise meaningless game.

From GomTv's official post on TL: "Not only progamers, but professional athletes in every sports prove and showcase their skill through the game and by doing so entertain their fans." I was MORE entertained by this game than an otherwise meaningless ZvP (coming from both a Zerg player and Nestea fan).

It's disconcerting that he's being punished because Naniwa didn't even officially break any rules. Quote GomTv: "It is true that NaNiWa has not taken actions that break any explicit rules" If that is the case, if ANY player in GomTv doesn't do a standard, pro-ish build, are they purposely not trying their best? This is a slippery slope and can easily be abused if GomTv can exercise this right. It's akin to David Stern nixing the Chris Paul trade to the Lakers. There are no clear safeguards to prevent further abuse. When Boxer promises to "show exciting games" but uses an inferior but entertaining build, isn't he purposely not trying his best? (I am a graduate of law school and these types of questions are commonly asked in it. It's not meant to appear far-fetched, but to demonstrate the extent of a ruling and how it can be abused.)

Also, GomTv states: "NaNiWa has however purposefully not tried his best and shown this in a disrespectful manner." I found nothing disrespectful about it and I found it MORE entertaining and humorous. I am not the 100% though, but my point is that the "disrespect" is up to each individual's interpretation and for GomTv to unilaterally decide that seems unjust.

After Naniwa did this, I am more interested in him as a player and will definitely look forward to seeing what and how he chooses to play in future matches. It ups the number of unexpected plays I can witness for my money.

Thanks for listening.
R00Rshock
Profile Joined December 2011
United States4 Posts
December 16 2011 20:35 GMT
#224
I don't know about the rest of the community, but I have been extremely impressed by NaNiwa as of late. His play style when he is in his element is just mindblowing. Perfect micromanagement and recovery. He just needs to open with other builds than nexus first.

Regarding the Nestea Rivalry and the blow-off game at the Blizzard Cup, I was kinda upset that he didn't play for pride and for the fans but considering how determined this guy is be number one at this game, the frustration of losing 3 games with visible signs of potential recovery is extremely taxing mentally, I would imagine. Also remember that these guys practice hard and fly everywhere, especially NaNiwa. While that one game was fairly lame I am so happy that Quantic handled the situation well and am looking forward to NaNiwa returning full-force to the game. Based on the number of times I've seen NaNiwa do the impossible in games while outnumbered I'm sure he will destroy future tournaments if he can fix his early game builds. He is GSL material if he can keep his cool. If I remember correctly, he's not the only "badboy" in Starcraft 2 or GSL *cough* IdrA *cough*.

Plus, for anyone who hasn't already, go check out NaNiwa's interviews. Sounded fairly sincere to me. Although I was pretty angry with him before this guy is just too damn good at Starcraft 2 to hate on.

Anyways, my 2 cents on the issue. I fully support NaNiwa and hope that his future games will be awesome as he developes into a stronger player.
Favorite Players: Innovation, Bomber, Life, Zest, MVP, Hero, Rain
The_Piper42
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States426 Posts
December 16 2011 20:35 GMT
#225
Is the poll referring to the game itself or the punishment of Naniwa?
Boxer, White-Ra, Grubby, Flash fighting!
RyanRushia
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2748 Posts
December 16 2011 21:20 GMT
#226
"disappointing but no big deal"

dissapointing to watch, embarassing to his new organization, but no harm overall imo
I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free. | coL.Ryan | www.twitter.com/coL_RyanR
Keone
Profile Joined April 2011
United States812 Posts
December 16 2011 21:33 GMT
#227
Everyone who is trying to comment on this thread needs to read Alex Garfield's post (EG owner) as well as GOMTV's post, and of course Naniwa/Quantic's response.

THEN come comment.
BW Forever. Flash is the Ultimate Bonjwa.
MauliSchaumi
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany21 Posts
December 16 2011 21:43 GMT
#228
Its a good deal,because its in the korean tv and they will see good games and no bullshit like that.
DerNebel
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Denmark648 Posts
December 16 2011 21:46 GMT
#229
Probe rush is a legit strat imo. It has a pretty high win percentage from my own ladder experience.

Seriously though, you guys act like spoiled kids. You can't demand that the players put on an empty show for you, if that is the case then you would be fine with all sorts of matchfixing as well. If you can ignore the fact that a match is purely for show and that the players aren't really trying, you're not really far from watching matchfixed games where you know it's a show and the players aren't really trying.
MinimalistSC2
Profile Joined April 2011
United States121 Posts
December 16 2011 22:10 GMT
#230
If you wouldn't throw a practice match, why would you throw a tournament game that thousands of people are watching?
There is no such thing as perfection, only improvement.
Averik
Profile Joined April 2011
United States16 Posts
December 16 2011 22:10 GMT
#231
I think what Naniwa did wasn't what he should have done but its understandable, I mean emotions can get the better of people some times.
Heff87
Profile Joined November 2011
United States106 Posts
December 16 2011 23:43 GMT
#232
GOM could easily win over everyone by organizing a Nestea/NaNiwa showmatch BO5, winner gets a grand or something. Or a Code S spot =P
VGTA
Fall.182
Profile Joined September 2010
United States126 Posts
December 16 2011 23:51 GMT
#233
On December 13 2011 23:46 Massing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:43 carloselcoco wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:11 Grimmjow wrote:
such a big deal over a match that meant nothing in this tournament..


Still means a lot for sponsors and teams though.
Quantic and GomTV are paying Nani to play, not give up for free his game.


then they should figure out a system where played games have a sense


umm hes getting payed to play these "pointless" games. i think thats enough of a system for him.
Lagoon
Profile Joined December 2010
2 Posts
December 17 2011 00:42 GMT
#234
I'm not sure what happened. I'm assuming its like Idra vs thorzain in that mlg where idra was kinda like, whatever? Sandbagging, happens all the time, understandable
aviator116
Profile Joined November 2011
United States820 Posts
December 17 2011 03:59 GMT
#235
completely justified. if GOMTV and quantic are paying money for this guy to play...he should've at least ATTEMPTED some kind of strategy like Tyler said on SOTG.
Bogus ST_Life IMMVP
fellcrow
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States288 Posts
December 17 2011 04:55 GMT
#236
Not a big deal to me. And people are saying his employers are mad. But, at the same time. No such thing as bad publicity. haha
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
ferencziffra
Profile Joined September 2011
Bulgaria29 Posts
December 17 2011 05:41 GMT
#237
Retardiwa on the loose again.

User was warned for this post
xtfftc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom2343 Posts
December 17 2011 08:04 GMT
#238
Nice to see that just 1/4 of the community is that obsessed with stories like this.
BoB_KiLLeR
Profile Joined September 2010
Spain620 Posts
December 17 2011 08:44 GMT
#239
Not a BIG DEAL
Dillinger
Profile Joined May 2007
17 Posts
December 17 2011 10:28 GMT
#240
No opinion.
They rent the building on every other tuesday. Its a satanic drug thing and I dont understand it.
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