EPTWhat do you think of Naniwa vs Nestea? - Page 15
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scottycopter
United States46 Posts
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Moosy
Canada396 Posts
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Sanguinarius
United States3427 Posts
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iFU.pauline
France1660 Posts
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alhazrel
98 Posts
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catabowl
United States815 Posts
Throwing a game is a huge problem. For the new SC fans, there was a huge scandal in Brood War with gambling 2 years ago. This was deemed a huge issue and progamers were kicked out of Brood War in Korea. While I believe the action was not "Gambling" related, this should be treated seriously. And yes, Naniwa should have lost his Code S seat for this action. I tell you this right now, SC2 would not survive a gambling scandal. The Brood War scandal basically killed 3 teams and a lot of investment money into it. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
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WarChimp
Australia943 Posts
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Jackle
Canada859 Posts
On December 23 2011 17:00 WarChimp wrote: This drama has gone on long enough. Naniwa screwed up, that is all. Why do people keep bringing this topic up. Because it's a poll on the front page. >_> | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5599 Posts
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viCeM
Germany10 Posts
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alhazrel
98 Posts
On December 23 2011 14:51 jinorazi wrote: question is ambiguous or is that just me. lol, I wouldn't rule out either, but the question is also mental - I think if they'd put another option like 'unacceptable' after 'completely unacceptable' it would have the most votes. Really poorly phrased question though, unlike your post, which was brilliant. | ||
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4zero4
Canada3 Posts
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kidd
United States2848 Posts
On December 23 2011 11:08 catabowl wrote: What the SC2 fan does not understand about this situation is that this act was COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE. Throwing a game is a huge problem. For the new SC fans, there was a huge scandal in Brood War with gambling 2 years ago. This was deemed a huge issue and progamers were kicked out of Brood War in Korea. While I believe the action was not "Gambling" related, this should be treated seriously. And yes, Naniwa should have lost his Code S seat for this action. I tell you this right now, SC2 would not survive a gambling scandal. The Brood War scandal basically killed 3 teams and a lot of investment money into it. Some of them went to jail. It wasn't just kicked out. Naniwa is a professional, he gets paid to play and what he did reflects poorly upon himself and his team/sponsors so no, it isn't acceptable. He acted unprofessionally and he didn't even really get punished. gom just receded his candidacy as a choice for foreign seed for 2012 gsl January only which isn't part of the gom-mlg league agreement. | ||
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Finneas
2 Posts
On December 22 2011 16:27 scottycopter wrote: When you go professional, you stop playing this game for yourself and it becomes something a lot bigger. If a team in the NBA (or other professional sports league) realized they were going to lose and just started doing nothing... the fans would boo them off the court. This isn't any different. His sponsors are paying him money to show up and play. The fans are paying money for online tickets, admission, and merchandise to see him play. Horrible, horrible logic. SC2 is nothing like the NBA in this regard, because it is common courtesy in SC2 to quit when you realize that you're going to lose. That's why pros "gg" and quit before their last building gets destroyed. The issue of professionalism is whether or not Naniwa was obligated to actually attempt to win this game. Note that this is in a tournament setting; however, the outcome of the game was irrelevant. It would contribute to neither team's success. The game was more like an exhibition match, but one that Naniwa was forced to play because of bad tournament design. He didn't show up to play an opponent for fun; he showed up to play in and advance his team in a tournament. This is an acceptable response to bad tournament design, because it highlights the fact that game outcomes need to matter in tournaments. This was a meaningless game; the only bad thing about Naniwa's decision is that he could have gotten in more practice. But tournaments aren't supposed to be about getting practice, they're supposed to be competitions where outcomes matter. This game was not a legitimate tournament game. | ||
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naVaz
Germany38 Posts
On December 24 2011 21:04 Finneas wrote: Horrible, horrible logic. SC2 is nothing like the NBA in this regard, because it is common courtesy in SC2 to quit when you realize that you're going to lose. That's why pros "gg" and quit before their last building gets destroyed. i really dont see why your point of view is supposed to be more logic then his? you both brought up 2 valid points which dont negate each other out. horrible, horrible attitude. | ||
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On December 24 2011 21:04 Finneas wrote: It was, unless you also consider many other professional sports leagues also having "not legitimate" games.Horrible, horrible logic. SC2 is nothing like the NBA in this regard, because it is common courtesy in SC2 to quit when you realize that you're going to lose. That's why pros "gg" and quit before their last building gets destroyed. The issue of professionalism is whether or not Naniwa was obligated to actually attempt to win this game. Note that this is in a tournament setting; however, the outcome of the game was irrelevant. It would contribute to neither team's success. The game was more like an exhibition match, but one that Naniwa was forced to play because of bad tournament design. He didn't show up to play an opponent for fun; he showed up to play in and advance his team in a tournament. This is an acceptable response to bad tournament design, because it highlights the fact that game outcomes need to matter in tournaments. This was a meaningless game; the only bad thing about Naniwa's decision is that he could have gotten in more practice. But tournaments aren't supposed to be about getting practice, they're supposed to be competitions where outcomes matter. This game was not a legitimate tournament game. It's the decision of the tournament which games are played. Naniwa was not only chosen to have the previlege to participate in the Blizzard Cup, in a sense he was also paid to play (because 4th and 5th place still rewards some money.) From the pro gamer's point of view its alway better to skip matches which do not contribute to the outcome. But players also play to provide the audience a good viewing experience. The game wasn't even entirely meaningless, it still determined the 4th and 5th place. That is not very meaningful but also not entirely meaningless. While neither Naniwa nor Nestea could get into the playoffs, from a professional point of view there was still pride on the line to not finish last (as well to continue the storyline of Naniwa vs Nestea.) The Blizzard Cup is not a monthly or bi-monthly tournament like the normal GSL season, where meaningless group games are skipped indeed. The argument with the gg before all buildings are razed does not contribute to this case. The gg is a time-saver when a game was lost after it was played out. Do not play a game at all even though you were ask to play, isn't a time saver, it's kind of a "fuck you" to both the league as well the audience. | ||
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
On December 25 2011 00:22 [F_]aths wrote: It was, unless you also consider many other professional sports leagues also having "not legitimate" games. It's the decision of the tournament which games are played. Naniwa was not only chosen to have the previlege to participate in the Blizzard Cup, in a sense he was also paid to play (because 4th and 5th place still rewards some money.) From the pro gamer's point of view its alway better to skip matches which do not contribute to the outcome. But players also play to provide the audience a good viewing experience. The game wasn't even entirely meaningless, it still determined the 4th and 5th place. That is not very meaningful but also not entirely meaningless. While neither Naniwa nor Nestea could get into the playoffs, from a professional point of view there was still pride on the line to not finish last (as well to continue the storyline of Naniwa vs Nestea.) The Blizzard Cup is not a monthly or bi-monthly tournament like the normal GSL season, where meaningless group games are skipped indeed. The argument with the gg before all buildings are razed does not contribute to this case. The gg is a time-saver when a game was lost after it was played out. Do not play a game at all even though you were ask to play, isn't a time saver, it's kind of a "fuck you" to both the league as well the audience. I think that this attitude is bad for esports, should the companies really have the power to tell players to play in a specific way ? Seems like Kespas return | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On December 25 2011 01:01 D10 wrote: Naniwa didn't really play at all. He didn't do just a risky strategy or similar. He proberushed and took his hand from the keyboard, waiting to have his probes killed.I think that this attitude is bad for esports, should the companies really have the power to tell players to play in a specific way ? Seems like Kespas return I think it is good for esports if the professional esports athletes behave in a professional way. | ||
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