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dangthatsright
1159 Posts
However, given the setting and the expectations for the match, it still was unacceptable and letting it go would not set the greatest precedent for future such events. So where does that fall? At the same time, formats requiring useless games to be played out are pretty stupid unless it's a pre-established showmatch, in which case this discussion probably wouldn't exist | ||
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Wrath586EU
Denmark27 Posts
I dont see it as i lost a nani, it was more like loosing a nestea game.... | ||
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Finneas
2 Posts
It was, unless you also consider many other professional sports leagues also having "not legitimate" games. It's the decision of the tournament which games are played. Naniwa was not only chosen to have the previlege to participate in the Blizzard Cup, in a sense he was also paid to play (because 4th and 5th place still rewards some money.) From the pro gamer's point of view its alway better to skip matches which do not contribute to the outcome. But players also play to provide the audience a good viewing experience. The game wasn't even entirely meaningless, it still determined the 4th and 5th place. That is not very meaningful but also not entirely meaningless. While neither Naniwa nor Nestea could get into the playoffs, from a professional point of view there was still pride on the line to not finish last (as well to continue the storyline of Naniwa vs Nestea.) The Blizzard Cup is not a monthly or bi-monthly tournament like the normal GSL season, where meaningless group games are skipped indeed. The argument with the gg before all buildings are razed does not contribute to this case. The gg is a time-saver when a game was lost after it was played out. Do not play a game at all even though you were ask to play, isn't a time saver, it's kind of a "fuck you" to both the league as well the audience. Except that they don't get compensated for playing well; they get compensated for advancing. People respond to incentives, that's economics 101. Naniwa's play was essentially a "gg", since the last meaningful game had already been played out. If these kinds of games are important to have in tournaments, why don't they always have an exhibition match immediately after the championship game where the #1 and #2 players play another game, but without any possible reward for winning. Why don't tournaments have this extra exhibition match? Because it would be fucking retarded. That's what the game Naniwa threw was. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On December 25 2011 11:37 Finneas wrote: Except that they don't get compensated for playing well; they get compensated for advancing. People respond to incentives, that's economics 101. Naniwa's play was essentially a "gg", since the last meaningful game had already been played out. If these kinds of games are important to have in tournaments, why don't they always have an exhibition match immediately after the championship game where the #1 and #2 players play another game, but without any possible reward for winning. Why don't tournaments have this extra exhibition match? Because it would be fucking retarded. That's what the game Naniwa threw was. I think it's not. Blizzard Cup honored some good players to participate in this Cup. Naniwa accepted. He should also accept to play any match within this Cup he is asked to, even if he cannot advance anymore. This game could have been exiting for the fans even if neither Naniwa nor Nestea had a chance to get into the playoffs. Naniwa showed that he didn't care about anyone's expectation beside his own personal financial gain. That is may be okay for a weekly online tournament, but not for Blizzard Cup, a product which needs to provide certain production values. Imagine a group stage game where the outcome of one of those player is meaningless and he just GGs. Within your argument, that would be okay. I think it's not (even though a tournament should avoid those kind of games, but tournament design is always a trade-off. One cannot get only boons without any disadvantage.) One can expect Naniwa to play all his games regardless. No-one would be mad if he didn't play his heart out. But he didn't play at all. | ||
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RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
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Bamm
Sweden279 Posts
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LiquidSlick
United States33 Posts
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OPL3SA2
United States378 Posts
On December 26 2011 02:01 RogerX wrote: I blame the tournament organizer. Naniwa was emotionally unstable as well from his past games I don't. I think GOMTV always puts a lot and effort into their tournament format. Naniwa says "If you don't want this stuff to happen, don't set up the format in this fashion." or something to this extent I say "If you don't like the tournament format, don't accept the invitation." It's pretty simple to shoot down his line of thinking. If I was Naniwa, and had to create some other justification for my actions, I would not immediately turn and blame Mr. Chae. I think that was more detrimental to my opinion of him than his initial decision to probe rush. There's no one at fault, and Naniwa is included. There was no problem. It is what it is. After losing so many games, Naniwa didn't want to lose another. To be honest, I might have done the same thing in his position. However, he did fly to South Korea to see how good he was at video games, something I would not have done in his position. | ||
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thesums
Taiwan257 Posts
Why does Naniwa not use this as stage experience, or just game experience. He is up against an experienced NesTea for gods sake! Does he not need to practice? Just treat this like a ladder game. Remember back in i think Season 2 or 3, HongUn lost on purpose so that he did not have to face his teammate in the next round? (He was getting through group anyways) It was similar situation, but he did not probe rush, he did a Mothership rush build to entertain the fans! I want to be entertained! Not some stupid one-handed A-move. Ok ok. this kind of behavior, i can understand better IF, Naniwa was actually REALLY good, someone like MVP, but the fact is he is not, he could not qualify into Code S, and he was in Code A not because of qualification, but some partnership. So I am saying if he wants to pull a probe throw away at least become top 5 in the world, so people can say 'oh this guy does not need stage experience that much, and he has more matches to attend later on so he needs to save some stamina...etc' . Some may say he did well in GSTL, but that was one time, out of so many games. Or saying he won foreign tournaments. But non of them had bunch of world class players like the GSL, so please do not make the comparison. GSL should disallow unqualified players to attend tournaments. They need to make all players go through same standards of qualification not MLG placing etc. Some players do not appreciate the difficulty of getting into tournaments like GSL, and throw away games seriously! That kind of mentality is exactly why Naniwa is not a top class player. I have no idea why he is in the Blizzard cup anyways, there are much better players I would have replaced him with. | ||
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thesums
Taiwan257 Posts
On December 14 2011 04:31 sVnteen wrote: not a big deal and i not really too disappointed since games that dont matter arent fun to watch anyway Does that mean you do not watch any of the streams? Those games do not matter either. Actually all the games matter because it goes on your record; win ratios etc. I believe Naniwa already lost his Code S spot. Good decision, I think they should stop just giving spots to people, foreign players should qualify like the Koreans seriously. | ||
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vittra
Sweden16 Posts
I didn't vote, though, as there were no option I agree with. Very disrespectfull. But funny. | ||
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Altercate
Sweden75 Posts
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vittra
Sweden16 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:42 Altercate wrote: This is like flipping your boss the bird at work! This. Exactly. That's likely why I find it so funny and entertaining from the outside. Not a good career move, though. | ||
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Starp
Canada199 Posts
I was only mildly shocked and a bit disappointed but we do not want our awesome GSL's turning into a primetime soap like Melrose Place. We really don't. | ||
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SargonTheGreat
United States217 Posts
Also I think it's silly that a lot of ya'll are taking it personally that Naniwa did this or saying that it was a wrong doing to you. IMO it's between GOM and Nani, some fans love seeing cheese and i'm sure it got a few thousand people to rofl their bums off. However, I do see it as dishonorable towards Gom. | ||
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Stowned
Belgium3 Posts
Who cares about games that don't matter? You could never use them in an argument. Because it would be a meaningless game. And if there is nothing on the line then I don't care about the game. Well others might care and find it unprofessional. And wanted to see an ''entertaining'' game. Well for me if professionalism means you can't be yourself any more then I don't like it. You have people that still care and want to win every game or people who act professional and do a ''fake" game or guys like Naniwa who just don't give a fuck. As a real Naniwa ''fan'' you want him to be ''real'' so you don't care what he did. Because thats a part of Naniwa. Real emotions always makes good TV :p of course there are boundaries but this is far from it imho. | ||
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
On December 25 2011 06:32 [F_]aths wrote: Naniwa didn't really play at all. He didn't do just a risky strategy or similar. He proberushed and took his hand from the keyboard, waiting to have his probes killed. I think it is good for esports if the professional esports athletes behave in a professional way. I dont think anyone can judge Naniwa's play, for all we know he intended to try to win with his probes but had a mini seizure and forgot he was ever gonna do it. My point is, its utterly wrong to judge and condem him in any way shape or form, Naniwa should have the right to throw games away, we cant be in his mind, therefore we shouldnt ever presume to assume what the players really intended. | ||
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Methodmaan
Germany2 Posts
To be a pro-gamer is his job...he gets paid for training to improve (and a game against Nestea should always be a good lesson) and for entertaining the visitors and representing the sponsors paying his salary. Imagine you do so in your regular job "I'm not interested in working the whole regular 8h today. I'm going home now after 3h." Do you think you will work there in future? O.o In my opinion is such a behavior not acceptable...sry | ||
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
On December 31 2011 01:06 Methodmaan wrote: I have another point of view than the most here. To be a pro-gamer is his job...he gets paid for training to improve (and a game against Nestea should always be a good lesson) and for entertaining the visitors and representing the sponsors paying his salary. Imagine you do so in your regular job "I'm not interested in working the whole regular 8h today. I'm going home now after 3h." Do you think you will work there in future? O.o In my opinion is such a behavior not acceptable...sry Disagree, theres many lines of work, and entertainment people dont work on the same rules as the 8 to 5 people do. They have fans, ffs, people who still want to see Naniwa play regardless of the issue, for that alone you cant make the comparison | ||
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