EPTOf course, none of this changes that Flash is clearly over Bisu for this month bar some catastrophe in KT vs. SKT.
Power Rank 04/02/2011 - Page 16
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Tianx
United States1196 Posts
Of course, none of this changes that Flash is clearly over Bisu for this month bar some catastrophe in KT vs. SKT. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5595 Posts
On April 25 2011 00:09 Oystein wrote: Why do people keep on saying Bisu had an advantage in the last game of the MSL group? He was at a disadvantage from the very beginning when Flash got away with a Rax-CC, and got even further behind when Flash got his quick 3rd uncontested and fell far behind when he started losing probes to vults. That game wasnt really close, even tho it might have looked that way after Bisus first 2 great pushbreaks, but the fact is Flash always had a shitload of tanks left when the stasis finished with superior upgrades + a map with easy access to more easily defend able expos. Bisu could obviously have had a chance if he didnt lose all his army at 6, but the game was in Flashs favor even if he hadnt lost it all. You have a point about the second game they played, but I felt that Bisu was in a good lead when he beat Flash's first push and killed like half of his tanks. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 25 2011 00:25 Tianx wrote: TTT is a reasonable dude, but he's way off base here. There's absolutely no way that WL finals aren't important. I'd say that in terms of how much the players wanted to win it, it counts as least as much as the group of death. Of course, none of this changes that Flash is clearly over Bisu for this month bar some catastrophe in KT vs. SKT. I guarantee you every single player in that group of death would want an MSL over a WL victory. The same can't be said for PL finals but, while I'm absolutely sure players train hard and really do want to win WL, MSL is going to be more important. There were tons of little PL exhibition matches -- this isn't the first coming of the winner's format -- in the past that I'm sure players trained hard for and really wanted to win, but they don't have the same longevity that PL finals or individual league titles have maintained for quite awhile, and therefore don't matter as much. While it's fair to say that it's not an MSL final and is just the Ro32, that's usually because Ro32 groups are much less challenging usually so it's not as big a problem to shirk practicing for it, that clearly wasn't the case in group D this year. I'm just saying this as a sort of experience that these mid-season proleague "titles" have never been that memorable or important, but pretty much every single MSL champion has been, even if they're remembered less than fondly. I'm okay with people disagreeing with me on this, but if I could trade Flash or Statas getting to the Ro16 in the MSL or KT winning WL finals? I'd pick the Ro16 everytime because the WL finals aren't the real deal, whereas the MSL is. | ||
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
yea... | ||
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FakePlasticLove
United States357 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://paradoxdgn.com/junk/avatars/trollface.jpg) User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Tempest[OEC]
United States417 Posts
I still laughed heartily at your post, sir. | ||
]343[
United States10328 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On April 25 2011 02:42 ]343[ wrote: mind, baby, zero should get low slots! Seconded. Edit: barring any serious fuck-ups for the rest of the month. | ||
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e_i_pi_1_0
933 Posts
On April 25 2011 02:55 Mortality wrote: Seconded. Edit: barring any serious fuck-ups for the rest of the month. I think there's still MSL Ro16 games, so those could have an effect on the rankings. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 25 2011 02:14 hacklebeast wrote: So that means 1st on the PR should be the winner of the pusan qualifiers. The OSL is more important than WL, and more important than the MSL even, so that should carry more weight. And they won so many more games than flash or JD, that it was probably harder in the end. They have ONLY been preparing for those qualifiers with no team league or MSL. yea... Hey looks it's a completely extreme view of what I was saying! It's the MSL AND Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/Sea, compared to WL with Flash Jaedong some hite players etc. The quality of opponents was similar and the only difference is what league it was in, I'll take the one people care about in a few years. | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On April 25 2011 03:53 TwoToneTerran wrote: Hey looks it's a completely extreme view of what I was saying! It's the MSL AND Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/Sea, compared to WL with Flash Jaedong some hite players etc. The quality of opponents was similar and the only difference is what league it was in, I'll take the one people care about in a few years. So you don't care about Skyhigh> Oz or the WL finals last year? Willing WL/PL finals is definitely something to care about. Not to mention that's what you get paid for as a progamer. Besides, advancing from a group of death doesn't mean you won the MSL. Winning the WL finals DOES mean you won something though. | ||
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kuroshiroi
3149 Posts
On April 25 2011 03:02 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote: I think there's still MSL Ro16 games, so those could have an effect on the rankings. Indeed, on the 28th and the 30th, so nobody has a lock on anything. BW is back in full swing, finally. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On April 25 2011 04:33 kuroshiroi wrote: Indeed, on the 28th and the 30th, so nobody has a lock on anything. BW is back in full swing, finally. BW is not back in full swing without OSL joins the party! | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
On April 25 2011 03:53 TwoToneTerran wrote: Hey looks it's a completely extreme view of what I was saying! It's the MSL AND Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/Sea, compared to WL with Flash Jaedong some hite players etc. The quality of opponents was similar and the only difference is what league it was in, I'll take the one people care about in a few years. To be fair, if neither Jaedong or Flash wins this MSL people will not care about the results of this group in a few years. Winning the SWL will be remembered. edit : however if any of them win it will obviously make the win sweater and more memorable. Edit2 : not saying bisu should be ranked higher than flash, but people are downplaying the importance of wl, especially for skt since it was the only throphy they lacked | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 25 2011 04:01 Lightwip wrote: So you don't care about Skyhigh> Oz or the WL finals last year? Willing WL/PL finals is definitely something to care about. Not to mention that's what you get paid for as a progamer. Besides, advancing from a group of death doesn't mean you won the MSL. Winning the WL finals DOES mean you won something though. No, atleast not as much as OSL, MSL, or PL finals. As you can see absolutely nothing has come of Skyhigh RAKing a bad team -- I bet the vast majority of people here can't even name the two nobody protosses that Oz threw at him before the final game, or the maps, or anything because it wasn't that big a deal. It was a cool moment but it meant nothing in the course of the actual proleague. I already said how little it mattered to me that KT won last year -- the only important thing was winning the whole she-bang (and stopping SKT). I'm not saying I don't care about SWL finals, I just care about MSL more and when the calibre of the players are the same I put MSL> Non-pertinent SWL games. It's not like Winner's League is an entirely different season from the rest of PL or the games wouldn't count to overall record. It's a micro-playoffs with far, far less games to test merit that don't affect the outcome of the actual season. The only league it's worth more than is the STX Master's cup which is just a mockery anyhow. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
But if you happen to think the WL final means significantly more than the ultimate group of death (something I do not agree with), then I can definitely see why you'd want Bisu over Flash. It really comes down to how you view the PR, what you prioritize. There is no well defined equation to it, we all have our own subjective take on it and I suspect most of us make slight subconscious deviations over time due to our bias.  I hope SKT vs KT can shed some light the issue.  | ||
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
Given what happened this weeked, I would even start to argue that Bisu's 5-2 is more impresive that JD's 4-2. JD's 4-2 (Flash fantasy sea S2) (great bisu) bisu's 5-2(flash JD sea ggaemo m18m)(flash flash) His wins were against better people and his losses were against better people (or person). That's without considering the WL title. Although if the list is "who will win in a best of 5?" than flash is first in my book. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
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_romantic
United States455 Posts
On April 25 2011 06:24 hacklebeast wrote: Totally agree that flash should beat bisu in a BoX. Looking only at head to head, then yes, flash should be ahead. Great, we agree. But Bisu>JD and JD> flash can not be overlooked. Really? You said yourself that Flash will beat anyone in a Bo5. How is JD>Flash then? And I think that once that is factored in bisu's 2-2 is equal to flash's. Then you look at their final games to see bisu beat sea and flash beat s2. Because sea is better than s2 bisu oh-so barely had a better month (not factoring in the 2-0 vs ACE, which matteres little in comparison). Because your Bisu>JD>Flash>Bisu reasoning isn't true (because Flash is not necessarily < JD, and Bisu is also not necessarily > JD--you need to prove that point rather than just stating it) then your subsequent reasoning is irrelevant and Bisu's 2-2 is definitely not equal to Flash's. Given what happened this weeked, I would even start to argue that Bisu's 5-2 is more impresive that JD's 4-2. Rofl, I'll leave it to Quasar to argue against this JD's 4-2 (Flash fantasy sea S2) (great bisu) bisu's 5-2(flash JD sea ggaemo m18m)(flash flash) His wins were against better people and his losses were against better people (or person). That's without considering the WL title. Although if the list is "who will win in a best of 5?" than flash is first in my book. How is ggaemo and M18M (Ace players) better people than Fantasy and S2? What? | ||
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