EPTI'll spell it out a little more for you:
flash = flash
JD > fantasy
sea = sea
ggaemo + m18m = S2 (ish)
flash>>great
flash = bisu
You ignored JD
Power Rank 04/02/2011 - Page 17
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
I'll spell it out a little more for you: flash = flash JD > fantasy sea = sea ggaemo + m18m = S2 (ish) flash>>great flash = bisu You ignored JD | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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Yodo
Russian Federation327 Posts
And actually his games in group D was so-so. Bisu failed to grasp the MSL 16 slot only due to his total lack of PvT game-sense. I think SKT vs KT can shed more light but personally I don't see how Bisu can be placed over Flash. Bisu is S-class but always lacking something. My chart: JD Flash SoulKey Bisu | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On April 25 2011 07:05 TwoToneTerran wrote: It'd be dumb to put Bisu over Flash after he got manhandled twice in a row. A good cheese is a good cheese but you can't honestly say Flash didn't prove he was the clearly superior player. This post is just ridiculous. Sending zealots is just about as much a cheese as 2 fac. | ||
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night terrors
China1284 Posts
On April 25 2011 08:21 Yodo wrote: According to Flash's interview he wasn't in good shape lately. And actually his games in group D was so-so. Bisu failed to grasp the MSL 16 slot only due to his total lack of PvT game-sense. I think SKT vs KT can shed more light but personally I don't see how Bisu can be placed over Flash. Bisu is S-class but always lacking something. My chart: JD Flash SoulKey Bisu Bisu's winrate over his last 25 PvT's: 77%. Flash's winrate over his las 25 TvP's: 77%. Im not saying that Bisu is on par with Flash's game-sense in the matchup because it simply isnt true, but statistic-wise, keep in mind that this 77% winrate comes also from the best TvP'ers in the scene (excluding fantasy), you'll have a tough time arguing that Bisu was a total lack of game sense in the matcup. Aaaannnd I know someone will argue about Bisu not facing Fantasy and yada yada yada he's one of the best TvP'ers but on that note, Flash hasnt played Stats and by the games he showed last month he has a fierce PvT when he is on his game. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On April 25 2011 04:01 Lightwip wrote: So you don't care about Skyhigh> Oz or the WL finals last year? Ehem. If WL finals really are as much more important than MSL death group as people are saying... shouldn't we remember that SkyHigh's RAK was two years ago? Just saying. Anyway, this discussion is getting silly now. Hopefully tonight we will see Flash vs Bisu and the matter will be settled. | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On April 25 2011 09:39 Mortality wrote: Ehem. If WL finals really are as much more important than MSL death group as people are saying... shouldn't we remember that SkyHigh's RAK was two years ago? Just saying. What does that have to do with anything though? Yes it was two years ago, and we remember it. No one is saying that it matters currently. | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
<.< >.> | ||
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Tenhou
1052 Posts
On April 25 2011 09:53 Lightwip wrote: What does that have to do with anything though? Yes it was two years ago, and we remember it. No one is saying that it matters currently. So you're saying that SkyHigh RAK WL final is the only worth remembering, screw the year that he did that? | ||
]343[
United States10328 Posts
On April 25 2011 08:32 night terrors wrote: Bisu's winrate over his last 25 PvT's: 77%. Flash's winrate over his las 25 TvP's: 77%. Im not saying that Bisu is on par with Flash's game-sense in the matchup because it simply isnt true, but statistic-wise, keep in mind that this 77% winrate comes also from the best TvP'ers in the scene (excluding fantasy), you'll have a tough time arguing that Bisu was a total lack of game sense in the matcup. Aaaannnd I know someone will argue about Bisu not facing Fantasy and yada yada yada he's one of the best TvP'ers but on that note, Flash hasnt played Stats and by the games he showed last month he has a fierce PvT when he is on his game. Personally (and correct me if I'm wrong) but Fantasy and Flash are the only two Terrans who are actually good against Protoss. Hiya (10-4, loss to Paralyze and dropped a game vs Pusan),and Bogus (6-3, losses to Jaehoon and... dropped a game to ROCK?) are also pretty good, but the next tier consists of Sea (9-8 this year, losses to M18M, Grape, and Dear), Baby (5-6 this year including 0-2 to Dear in MST prelims), Leta (4-3, losses to Perfectman, Flying, Grape)... hardly awe-inspiring. They're all dropping games to these pretty good but definitely inexperienced P, and only Hiya and Bogus are > 2100 TvP ELO. Meanwhile there are 8 Protoss with > 2100 PvT ELO, and random P's are beating top T's (Tyson vs Flash? Obviously Tyson played great, but... that's something that just shouldn't happen...) Bisu's PvT has clearly been strong, but his strength is in harass and multitask, not game sense, and it's his strengths that have been winning him games. | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On April 25 2011 11:20 Tenhou wrote: So you're saying that SkyHigh RAK WL final is the only worth remembering, screw the year that he did that? You're really putting words in my mouth. You do remember that that happened though, right? Because it's pretty damn important. | ||
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4vvhiplash7
South Africa392 Posts
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 25 2011 08:25 Lightwip wrote: This post is just ridiculous. Sending zealots is just about as much a cheese as 2 fac. 2fac is a cheese if you all in with it, mate. Cheeses aren't bad but Bisu is clearly not better than Flash. | ||
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Mumei
United States257 Posts
On April 25 2011 14:12 ]343[ wrote:Personally (and correct me if I'm wrong) but Fantasy and Flash are the only two Terrans who are actually good against Protoss Players with more than 33 wins against Protoss, and their lifetime winning percentage: + Show Spoiler + Player Wins Losses Games Percentage Only the top 20, to the best of my knowledge. So yeah. I think your impression that there are few Terrans who are truly good (let alone having a winning percentage) against Protoss are few and far between. The same thing is true in regards other historically disadvantageous match-ups; for Protoss vs Zerg (Bisu has 70% - after that comes Stork, free, Kal, and Movie with about 56% apiece) and for Zerg vs Terran (Jaedong has 63%, Yarnc had 60%, EffOrt, Yellow (obvious suffers some due to playing well past his peak and being compared to other Zerg players still mostly in their prime), Savior, and Zero had or have 55%.) | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On April 25 2011 15:58 TwoToneTerran wrote: 2fac is a cheese if you all in with it, mate. Cheeses aren't bad but Bisu is clearly not better than Flash. Bisu certainly all-ined with zealots, didn't he? That's why he didn't expand after his aggression. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5595 Posts
On April 25 2011 17:37 Lightwip wrote: Bisu certainly all-ined with zealots, didn't he? That's why he didn't expand after his aggression. haha I remember some one calling Jaedong's win over Bisu with lurkers a cheese. On March 30 2011 10:54 Lightwip wrote: At this point, Fantasy should go way up, and Jaedong really belongs somewhere in the middle. If you watch him, you can still see he's not quite there. His "wins against top players" fail to take into account that a few of them were with aggression, not management. I guess now that Bisu won like that aggression counts as much as management games. Your double standards are... obvious. But yeah: it is as ridicules in a way to call bisu's attack cheese as to say that Jaedong cheesed Bisu. But still Bisu's win in that game was not as impressive as Flash's win in any of the two rematches for several reasons: in the two other games Flash easily won after a big disadvantage (atleast in the first game) where he showed that he is miles ahead of Bisu in his decision making and his understanding of the match up. The second reason is that it is A LOT easier when you get to pick the map where you play your opponent. Bisu chosed a map where protoss is strong and where he had a very specific build prepared, he only had to beat Flash while flash had to beat SKT. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
Smart stuff though, well predicted and well executed. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 25 2011 17:37 Lightwip wrote: Bisu certainly all-ined with zealots, didn't he? That's why he didn't expand after his aggression. You're the guy who, when a terran bunkerrushes a zerg, kills the expansion and then expands after it and doesn't think it's cheese. You can expand after a cheese because the cheese gives you such an overwhelming advantage that you can't stop it | ||
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gen.Sun
United States539 Posts
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On April 25 2011 19:49 TwoToneTerran wrote: You're the guy who, when a terran bunkerrushes a zerg, kills the expansion and then expands after it and doesn't think it's cheese. You can expand after a cheese because the cheese gives you such an overwhelming advantage that you can't stop it Depends.... terran scouts close position 12 hatch? I don't call that cheese. | ||
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