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On January 05 2010 13:14 HuntingX wrote:
Yes, because the '#2' player getting trashed in 10 minutes against the #1 player, in his BEST MATCHUP, IN AN ACE MATCH, makes perfect sense. Riggggght. Flash didn't even Cheese Stork; he just straightup OWNED him.
Did you even WATCH the game? You're telling me Calm didn't play better than THAT? Seriously? Heck, BEST will play 10x better than that in his BO5 with Flash (and obviously, Best doesn't deserve a spot!). I can't cite Stork v Stats, because then people will say he didn't take Stats seriously (and he probably didn't).
In any event, Stork, out of both leagues, and not performing that well in Proleague. #2 PR? Over... Jaedong? Ignoring results to throw out biased rankings (Sea anywhere is a cosmic joke) makes the whole thing hilarious (and a laughingstock outside of this site).
Your an idiot. Stork is one of the two protosses that has recently taken games off of FlaSh, so what if he lost ONE game, you can't compare Calm, a Zerg player, practicing for a bo5 all fucking week, to Stork, a protoss, practicing for a PvP, and if it goes to ace, the possibility of a PvT.
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Sea # 7 and Violet not even making CBNC.
Both are not in any leagues.
Sea went 5-3 and Violet went 6-3 but Violet went 2-0 in ace matches.
I know its about results but I'm pretty sure Violet was playing better when he beat Sea head to head.
I also disagree with Jaedong being below Stork. As already mentioned Jaedong managed to still be in MSL where Stork choked away his chance vs Movie and Canata. Jaedong losing 0-2 to Flash wasn't as bad as Stork losing 1-2 to Shine. Flash is just on a whole different level right now. Jaedong's only other loss was to Sea this month. Stork may have had more outstanding wins this month but Jaedong was more consistent and dominant in my opinion.
One thing I did like about the rank was Zero's ranking though.
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On January 05 2010 05:01 Fenrax wrote:Of course this crap gets flamed everywhere. It is an international embarassment for this site. + Show Spoiler +Uuuh, Stork lost to Flash, let's put him 9th place.
Can someone translate please?
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On January 05 2010 13:32 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:
Your an idiot. Stork is one of the two protosses that has recently taken games off of FlaSh, so what if he lost ONE game, you can't compare Calm, a Zerg player, practicing for a bo5 all fucking week, to Stork, a protoss, practicing for a PvP, and if it goes to ace, the possibility of a PvT.
Guess what. Flash has also prepared HIS TvZ all week before he faced Calm and was prepared for TvT and if goes to Ace the possibility of PvT so your point makes no sense.
And yes, the person you offended was right.
Placing Stork over JD is false. If it is either by trying to provoke or by being biased or just by analyzing very bad doesn't matter.
Jaedong
- was better before Dezember
- had a better total record in Dezember
- in that better record the only losses were against PR #1 twice and PR #7 once, whereas Stork lost against #4 twice and twice against players who are not on PR
- is still in one Starleague instead of being thrown out of both like Stork
I know everyone likes Stork, but if you judge the two players from a neutral point of view, Jaedong was absolute superior.
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On January 05 2010 13:14 HuntingX wrote:
Yes, because the '#2' player getting trashed in 10 minutes against the #1 player, in his BEST MATCHUP, IN AN ACE MATCH, makes perfect sense. Riggggght. Flash didn't even Cheese Stork; he just straightup OWNED him.
Did you even WATCH the game? You're telling me Calm didn't play better than THAT? Seriously? Heck, BEST will play 10x better than that in his BO5 with Flash (and obviously, Best doesn't deserve a spot!). I can't cite Stork v Stats, because then people will say he didn't take Stats seriously (and he probably didn't).
First, Calm played pretty crappy in 2 of the 4 games of the series. Second, you are citing the Stork vs. Flash game as evidence that Stork didn't deserve his rank (presumably over Jaedong), when Jaedong got trashed just as convincingly by Flash in a more important game (and no, I'm not talking about the 7rax).
Third, Best just got stomped in his bo5 with Flash 10 days ago.
Finally, the real issue is that you are being rabid about one game. Yes, Stork lost to Flash in an embarrassing fashion. Flash has a way of doing that. Does that mean he doesn't deserve his rank? Of course not. If it happened repeatedly, that would be something else entirely.
You're right that best will play a better rest of the bo5 against Flash than this game. So would Stork, wouldn't you think? I think that Stork right now has a pretty good chance of taking Flash down in a bo5... and we sure know that Calm doesn't.
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You're comparing TvZ vs TvP as if the two are comparable. They aren't. I'm just noting that Stork got humiliated (again) by Flash, and that he has highs, and lows. He's currently riding a low, out of BOTH leagues, so why the heck is he #2 ????? in PR? What has he DONE to deserve it?
EVERY DOMINANT TERRAN PLAYER has INCREDIBLE tvz. Every single one. T > Z > P > T, it's how SC is balanced, and even a baby knows it. So you'll never get to the top of terran, if you don't have flawness TvZ. But by extension, it's easier to win PvT than it is to win ZvT (and this is not a debateable point). So it's just HARDER for Z players to stand up to Flash (and this has been shown, repeatedly). Everyone knows that Flash's TvP is his 'weakest' matchup. Granted, it's not WEAK (duh!), but it's weaker than his endless wins in TvT, and his domination in TvZ.
So to get just TRASHED by Flash, trashed by shine (twice), and losing to Effort, I don't see how you can justify Stork's 'dominance' at #2. He's 6-4 in his last 10, vs Jaedong's 7-3, vs Violet's 7-3, etc.
You'll see a clear pattern that most of the 'good' players are roughly 7-3 or 8-2 like #10 on the PR, Kal. Frankly, there's a GOOD argument that RIGHT NOW Kal is playing better than Stork. There I said it.
Also, Sea #7 is a JOKE. I get that people like the kid. I like him too. Doesn't mean he comes anywhere CLOSE to the PR. Nothing in leagues, nothing in Proleague. Shine up there? As someone else mentioned, he ain't even the ace on his own TEAM.
On one hand, there's all these players that had a lucky run deep into the starleagues, that get high rank. On the other, there are these players with no starleague achievements, and mediocre proleague achievements, but are 'likeable.' What exactly is the PR trying to measure? How much bias we can squeeze into 10 spots? Terrible.
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Stork won the only Stork vs Flash game at the time of this ranking -_-
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
So to point out the weakness of your arguments:
On January 03 2010 22:49 Plexa wrote:
Turning to Proleague, Jaedong probably has an edge over Stork.
Not probably, Jaedong performed certainly better in Proleague. Good, we agree on that. So, do I get this right? JD is still in one more Starleague than Stork AND better in Proleague? While the only reason he is out of a Star League at all is because he was paired against the 2400 guy who just came up with a yet uncountered TvZ style and the second game with a brilliant cheese?
What could Jaedong have done? He was better in Proleague than Stork and he was flawless in the MSL group. So, his opponents were not that impressive? What could he do about it? Nothing!
(Ironically Stork on the other actually could have done something about it. Not 0-2ing in the MSL at the end of November and qualifying for the next round that is. But that was November, so it doesn't count).
The only thing Jaedong could have done better this month would have been to beat Flash in a TvZ, which seems impossible like beating Usain Bolt in a 200m race. On the other hand Stork could have beaten Shine in the OSL, which seems much more possible. (Or, again, qualify for the Dezember MSL rounds and show a good performance there, but again I give you that Stork's Novemver losses don't count for Dezember).
On January 03 2010 22:49 Plexa wrote:
To try and force some separation between the two I concerned their November records. Both were impresssive. Jaedong had some key losses to crap zergs, while Stork has a really terrible end of november
So you concerned November records?
What really enrages me is this part: "JD had some key losses against crap Zergs" in November? What an incredible biased way to say things. How about saying it like THIS?
Jaedong had ONLY 2 losses in all games in the whole month of November in which he also won the world Cyber games title while Stork ended the month with 4 losses in a row.
So, I ask you, plexa, WHAT kind of November data gave Stork the edge?
Losing 4x in a row right before the datat collection for PR Dezember began?
Losing to JD in WCG finals?
Losing twice as often as Jaedong in regular games in November?
November and Dezember combined Stork was overall 15-8 while Jaedong was 19-5. And that is NOT including the games for Jaedongs WCG title.
So, go ahead, tell me, what kind of November data did you use?
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So to get just TRASHED by Flash, trashed by shine (twice), and losing to Effort, I don't see how you can justify Stork's 'dominance' at #2. He's 6-4 in his last 10, vs Jaedong's 7-3, vs Violet's 7-3, etc.
You'll see a clear pattern that most of the 'good' players are roughly 7-3 or 8-2 like #10 on the PR, Kal. Frankly, there's a GOOD argument that RIGHT NOW Kal is playing better than Stork. There I said it.
So Stork is not good because he's 6-4 in the last 10 rather than 7-3. Right, I think I've had enough.
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Not one of the better power rankings. JD>Stork as for reasons already said but I guess #2 Stork is tolerable due to opinion but Sea still being on the list (maybe i can see a #10 but if you are even going to put Sea in, Violet should at least be CBNC because of their similar performances recently) and Calm being so low doesn't seem right, especially when ZerO is #6. The players are for the most part correct (except I wouldn't have Sea probably) but the order is not quite right in my opinion.
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On January 05 2010 13:14 HuntingX wrote:
Yes, because the '#2' player getting trashed in 10 minutes against the #1 player, in his BEST MATCHUP, IN AN ACE MATCH, makes perfect sense. Riggggght. Flash didn't even Cheese Stork; he just straightup OWNED him.
Did you even WATCH the game? You're telling me Calm didn't play better than THAT? Seriously? Heck, BEST will play 10x better than that in his BO5 with Flash (and obviously, Best doesn't deserve a spot!). I can't cite Stork v Stats, because then people will say he didn't take Stats seriously (and he probably didn't).
In any event, Stork, out of both leagues, and not performing that well in Proleague. #2 PR? Over... Jaedong? Ignoring results to throw out biased rankings (Sea anywhere is a cosmic joke) makes the whole thing hilarious (and a laughingstock outside of this site).
You know, citing games that happened AFTER the pr was written is unrelated and makes you look like a complete retard?
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Like many others I disagree with this PR
However, people should learn to calm the fuck down and discuss this in a mannered fashion instead of crying like little babies.
I just hope that Violet will be mentioned eventually, it was already a shame when he wasnt even in CBNC in november.
Still thx to Plexa for your efforts, you sure as hell gave people something to talk about, PRs everyone agrees with are not as exciting after all :p
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On January 05 2010 17:49 7mk wrote:
However, people should learn to calm the fuck down and discuss this in a mannered fashion instead of crying like little babies.
Calm down? That IS part of the problem. Hahahaha
"calm the fuck down and discuss this in a mannered fashion" ...like cursing in bold letters?
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Where's Shine's Grandma?
She should be #5 on PR. She's definitely better than Zero.
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On January 05 2010 16:55 MuffinDude wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2010 13:14 HuntingX wrote:
Yes, because the '#2' player getting trashed in 10 minutes against the #1 player, in his BEST MATCHUP, IN AN ACE MATCH, makes perfect sense. Riggggght. Flash didn't even Cheese Stork; he just straightup OWNED him.
Did you even WATCH the game? You're telling me Calm didn't play better than THAT? Seriously? Heck, BEST will play 10x better than that in his BO5 with Flash (and obviously, Best doesn't deserve a spot!). I can't cite Stork v Stats, because then people will say he didn't take Stats seriously (and he probably didn't).
In any event, Stork, out of both leagues, and not performing that well in Proleague. #2 PR? Over... Jaedong? Ignoring results to throw out biased rankings (Sea anywhere is a cosmic joke) makes the whole thing hilarious (and a laughingstock outside of this site). You know, citing games that happened AFTER the pr was written is unrelated and makes you look like a complete retard?
Not when most of the PR is based on "the way the games looked" rather than results. It's a bit like giving a player a free pass because you're convinced he's better than his results show, and you expect that to show over time. I'm not arguing this specifically in the case of Stork, but if you base an entire PR on impressions of strength rather than results, it should be expected that you'll be also judged by results that occur after the PR - especially if they don't confirm your rankings.
After all, strength is the ability to win games, and ranking a player that wins less both in the PR month *and* after that higher than one with better results - simply means that the ranking isn't very accurate.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On January 05 2010 10:23 HuntingX wrote:
I think it's hilarious the more games that come out, the more ridiculous the power rank looks.
Flash v Stork, Fantasy v Sea...
They sure deserved their spots.
Yup, Jaedong vs Crazy-hydra, Mind vs Calm
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Thought I'd thank Jaedong for tonight so that this gap could happen, at least for now:
I also looked into my crystal ball to predict the future:
+ Show Spoiler +
Flash wins every starleague in 2010, exceeding 75% winrate in every matchup. Kespa decides to ban Flash from using Terran because the suspense of who will win is gone, but their clever plan is foiled when Flash continues to win every starleague playing as Protoss, completely reversing the Z>P trend with new builds and strategies. In his winner's interviews for his first Protoss dual OSL/MSL victories: "I should have switched to P years ago, who knew it was this easy?"
North Korea invades South Korea. South Korea wires the controls for all of its tanks and fighter jets to Flash's control. He uses them like siege tanks/wraiths and decimates North Korea (and laughs at them for wasting their eco on making nukes). Bored with the small-fry, he proceeds to somehow make China surrender as well.
Religious tensions in the Middle East disappear as feuding Muslims and Jews realize that their God can't possibly be real, because Flash is God, and they live happily ever after together in Jerusalem, which has now been renamed LeeYoungHoselum.
...
Either that or Flash crashes and loses 0-3 to Shine in OSL, 1-3 to BeSt in MSL, and then gets sent into a permanent slump when his TvT streak gets broken soon after by CuteAngel nuking him.
The crystal ball was a little fuzzy.
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On January 03 2010 23:09 Plexa wrote:Let me quickly deal with some of the other major complaints. - Violet
Violet's playing basically two matchups in proleauge at the moment - mostly vP with some vT thrown in on the side. Violet is playing well at the moment, but really he isn't exhibiting play worthy of top 10 or CBNC. Indeed, he has 2 painful and glaring losses to weak Protosses. With only proleague to practice for you really have to stand out if you want to be noticed for this ranking. Violet just isn't standing out at the moment, and that's why he's not on these lists.
I'm gonna level with you. You saying this and ranking Sea at #7 is one of the biggest about faces I've seen in the power rank. Violet was, at the time of the PR, performing better and playing just as well as Sea, even beating him when they met last. That you don't think Violet deserves even a bit of recognition in CBNC, whereas Sea deserves #7? Reaaaallly?
Sea only has to practice for PL, too, but I guess it's fine because he's on MBC?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/9136/elom.jpg)
