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Plexa, your analysis of Stork vs. Jaedong is biased.
Why don't you look at official records? Flash is 81-35 (70%) against zerg and Shine is 12-10 (55%) against protoss. Unofficial record includes more games against worse opponents. Obviously Flash is way more proven than Shine. You can't pick which stats to use to bolster your argument. Now, Shine's ZvP may be very good, but it is no where near comparable to Flash's TvZ. In fact, Shine probably doesn't have the best ZvP right now (Jaedong does), while Flash has perhaps the best TvZ of all time. Also, the first set of Stork vs. Shine was absolutely abysmal. Stork could have easily saved his expansions but didn't. Jaedong was embarrassed too, but by a superior opponent.
The bottom line is, Jaedong is still alive in the MSL, while Stork is out of both leagues.
According to you, "Sea is only able to demonstrate his good condition in the Proleague and that's keeping him low in the rankings." Thus, by the same argument, Stork should not be ranked that high. His MSL losses to Movie and Canata were bad. Why is his PvP better than Jaedong's ZvZ if his PvP cost him to drop out of a league? You also say that his PvT is as good as Jaedong's ZvP, which may be true, except he only played 1 PvT this month and his PvT also helped him drop out of a league. Meanwhile, Jaedong's ZvP and ZvZ have let him cruise through the MSL.
And although Shine may be better than Jaedong's MSL opponents, which is debatable, since you said that Movie has really good unconventional PvZ, Stork still lost to him. If Stork really has better PvZ than Jaedong's ZvT, then he needs to prove it by beating an opponent he is favored over.
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United States12607 Posts
Welcome back to PR writing Plexa!
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guys, just because you disagree with Plexa's analysis doesn't mean that it is biased.
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I have several things to disagree but overall i am pleased by Plexa's writiing. Its so relaxing, not like FS or JWD (sorry folks).
1-  Calm shoulb be at 5 instead of  Movie because you cant use the argument of how zergs fight with  Flash only on JD case, you should make for all. Also, Movie PvT is shaking.
2- Sea should be out of PR and replaced with Violet. Violet beat alot better players than Sea and even won ace.
So, my PR would look like this:
1- Flash
2- Stork
3 Jaedong
4- Shine[kaL]
5- Calm
6- ZerO
7- Movie
8- Kwanro
9- Violet
10- Kal
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i agree with the top3, but calm and effort are ranked too low while sea is ranked too high. and zero... well, zero is a tough one to rate this month. he had sick opponents and a sick workload. on the other hand, he simply lost too much of his games, despite so many of them being against s-class players. he just didnt cut it. id place him below calm for sure.
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On January 03 2010 07:48 n.DieJokes wrote:
especially since before that game Storks PvT wasn't anything special
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The point where someone stops listening to you.
edit: Jaedong was absolutely embarassed by Flash, guys. The disappointment of the series is why I think he got put at #3, frankly comparing their records I would say him and Stork are pretty tied at the moment.
And quite simply Stork impresses me so much more <3
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i just won comment on this rank, dont wanna get banned
+ Show Spoiler +
after trolling so hard in the JD vs Flash livereport thread i expected you to drop JD from the rankings entirely
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I really like your PR-style, Plexa. I love the extended write-ups, but most of all the fact that you don't seem to give a damn about what everyone else thinks, which is awesome.
It's interesting that you put Jaedong below Stork. I love watching Stork play. While his micro is not as perfect as Bisu's, he has absolutely ridiculous decision-making in his two flag matchups. He's possibly the most consistent player in the modern era even if you include his brief OSL-cursed and WoW-ridden string of losses, and he holds his own in PvZ against the best, even if it's not always pretty.
On the other hand, I don't really like JD's play. I find his wins almost boring, and while he's a micro-machine capable of absolutely perfect play I don't see the same sparks of strategic brilliance that I do from the other top players that makes Starcraft entertaining for me to watch. Plus, his fans can be almost as insufferable as Bisu's.
Having said all that, Jaedong is without a doubt the second strongest player in the world at the moment. You can't use Flash as a bar at all for measuring ZvT: Honestly, the biggest deciding factor determining if he straight-up rolls you is if he got turrets up in time. All three big-name Zerg series's had at least one game where Flash just absolutely demolished his opponent and it didn't look like his opponent could do anything, whether their play was poor or brilliant (game 4 vs. Calm for poor, game 3 vs. Zero for brilliant. Also, I think you're underestimating how much of Calm's 'poor' muta micro throughout the series was caused by Flash's marine micro, but that's neither here nor there.)
Put Zero or Calm or Effort or even a team of all three against Flash before that game had started on HBR and have them play it out, with one and only one direction: To 12-hatch and scout normally with the first overlord. They would all have gotten creamed just as hard. If Flash had dreamed up any equally ridiculous cheese against any other zerg, it would have been just as much of a domination as it was against Jaedong. On the other hand, Hyun looked like a ZvT genius because Flash didn't put his turrets up in time against him. Simply put, Flash is so much better than other players that trying to measure them against him is like trying to measure which ant has the best chance of beating my boot. And while Jaedong lost to Flash, the undisputed strongest player on earth at the moment, Stork lost to Shine.
Shine does not have the best ZvP in the game. Shine does not have the second best ZvP in the game. Shine might not even have the third best ZvP in the game. He's very good, yes, but he's not Flash, and losing to him is not anywhere near equivalent of losing to to the Ultimate Weapon.
Stork beat Flash when basically everything went right for him. The build-orders, the map, the three clutch dragoons - absolutely everything, and still he won by the slightest of margins. Sure, all of those are because Stork is really really goddamn smart, but give those same advantages to Flash against Stork, and we'd see a repeat of Flash against Jaedong.
Jaedong has posted better results than Stork with more consistency in the month of December. All of his losses - Flash, Flash, Sea - don't count as a mark against him. The first two were almost inevitable, the third a clever strategy that doesn't give us any idea of Jaedong's play. Stork's losses have been far more ugly, with losses to Effort, Shine, Shine, and Hero. You don't count ZvZ wins for much, and I understand that sentiment completely (ZvZ blooooows) but when someone goes 6-0 in that matchup, 5-0 in ZvP, and then only loses to Flash and Sea in ZvT, it should count for something.
I completely agree that Jaedong's losses have all made him look helpless, but beyond game 1 versus Flash there wasn't a thing he could have done beyond pick different build orders. Meanwhile, all of Stork's losses were fully on him. Pound for pound, Jaedong has been playing better Starcraft than Stork, and not just in results.
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Simply put, Flash is so much better than other zergs that trying to measure them against him is like trying to measure which ant has the best chance of beating my boot.
epic quote, although flash is no zerg player 
but i agree, plexa didnt rate storks losses against shine high enough against stork. even on a very imba map, how can a player be considered the 2nd best in the world if he cant overcome a muta only monoculture build?
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Instead of making sunkens, use the 10 drones to delay flash, get the lings, then make the sunken and pull some drones off because 4 rines, 4 scv can't beat drones and lings. Jaedong probably would of lost 2~4 drones at most
3 marins + 4scvs will surely kill more than 2-4 drones if you drag them long enough to prevent a bunker going up.
Unless flash fucked up it was a straight build order win.
7rax 4scv +OLkill vs 12hatch no scout.
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Great PR really enjoyable. Although I like ripetides as well 
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On January 04 2010 07:00 Turbovolver wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2010 07:48 n.DieJokes wrote:
especially since before that game Storks PvT wasn't anything special AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA The point where someone stops listening to you. edit: Jaedong was absolutely embarassed by Flash, guys. The disappointment of the series is why I think he got put at #3, frankly comparing their records I would say him and Stork are pretty tied at the moment. And quite simply Stork impresses me so much more <3
Going back to the November, which is what you do when someone doesn't play many games in his mu (see plexa's justifications) and you want to give them the benefit of the doubt, his PvT was lackluster. Obviously we're not talking about about his entire career or whatever you take to mean "before that"; a fact which you then tried to hide by editing my post down to a single statement removing it from any shred of context; kudos retard.
Also, while I'm at; get off you pedestal no one respects it. "Guys, Jaedong got embarrassed" because you're the final authority on the subject and we were all being ridiculous before you opened our eyes with magical truth. If you want to argue over who had more embarrassing loses, look no farther that Stork vs Shine where he loses gets dominated by a cheesy rookie.
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On January 03 2010 08:41 MuffinDude wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2010 07:48 n.DieJokes wrote:
Stork played one PvT this month, 1! Sure it was against FlaSh and sure it was a good game but its a ridiculous leap of faith to say his PvT is better than JD ZvP; especially since before that game Storks PvT wasn't anything special and this month JD was 5-0, all of which were one sided affairs. Storks PvP was pretty good this month but two of his games were against herb and han who both suck and gosi who is untested but very well might just suck; JD was also undefeated in his much more volatile mirror with the same numer of games and against a higher average opponent skill (Hogil and Roro are both good and Firefist best mu is ZvZ; before his games against JD he was 60% plus). Theres just no logical argument for Storks mirror being better than Jd's. And last but not least they're weaker mu, Stork went 4-4, JD 3-3; Stork lost against some very aggressive play and beat some very good players, JD raped a few very good players, lost one straight up game to the best player on earth with the strong mu of anyone in the scene (TvZ); lost a game to very cunning cheese and had a little slip up against sea. If anything I'd say in this respect they had an even month. In summary, JD ZvP is undeniably stronger than Storks PvT, his mirror is at the very least as good but probably better and they're statistically weakest mu's about even (even though I personally think JD ZvT has always been better that Storks PvZ and he didn't really have a chance to show it this month). Beyond that, JD is still in a league, that should be the final nail in any argument that Stork should be higher than JD. Come on, jaedong beat roro, hogil, firefist x2. They all can be considered as mediocre~decent zergs who is just playing slightly better or (worse in hogil's case) at the current moment. Stork has beaten best and bisu, who although slumping, still have sick pvp. Stork's mirror match up is looking better than jaedong's. Stork's pvz is also much more impressive than jaedong's zvt. Stork beat shine, zero x2, and kwanro, all decent~awesome zergs. Jaedong beat ruby, go.go, and canata. Theres no way that ruby, go.go, canata can compete with shine, zero x2, and kwanro. Stork's losses were also shine x2, by.hero, effort. Shine is displaying some of the best pvz right now and effort and by.hero are all good pvzer. Jaedong's loss similarly matches stork with flash x2 and sea. They way that they lost were pretty similar too. Sure stork played one pvt, but it was v flash and he won pretty convincingly. He had control for pretty much the whole game except the time when flash was doing his little push. Beating flash convincingly is much more impressive than bunch of little wins in your best match up. Sure movie is good pvz, but he is not up at the level where he can perform consistently yet. Being in a starleague also means nothing since stork and jaedong were knocked out of osl at the same time and stork was knocked of msl a while back. Stork is playing much better than he did during his msl games. Stork is 10-4 last month while jaedong is 13-3. Both player's loss came from their worst matchup, but Stork's record is much more impressive since 8/14 games were on his worst match up, while jaedong's were only 6/16. While close, stork edges jaedong out on this one.
After more thought on their mirrors this month I'm going to say its inconclusive since neither lost. Stork beat some big names and some rabble; JD beat some very solid players but it true none of them had the same weight of Bisu and Best. I'd say historically JD's mirror is better but that neither here nor there.
I can agree with what you wrote in the second paragraph; here's what I don't agree with. One game is meaningless, it's always been meaningless. Hyun beat FlaSh one game but is his ZvT S-class? G-d no. Going into that game Stork was coming off two disheartening losses and though that game vs. FlaSh alleviates that worry; I can't say Storks PvT is end all be all of that mu the way JD is at ZvP.
And ofc being in a sl matters; if JD wins the MSL is that just meaningless because Stork already dropped out and didn't have the chance? Jaedong is 13-3, two of his losses are to the best player on earth and everything else has been domination. Stork is better than Shine and By.HerO without a doubt and he should have beaten them the same way JD beat Movie. I agree it's close but JD is the stronger player
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Plexa, I really like the way you write the power rank! Everything thoroughly researched and your logic laid out and explained - its awesome.
I am also glad you recognize Zero and Sea.
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On January 04 2010 05:36 QuakerOats wrote:
Oh, he edited the post while I was typing. Well, JD had to use 100 minerals to rebuild the ovy. If he pulled all of his drones that early I'm not sure he would have had enough minerals to make 8 lings and he definitely wouldn't have enough to build a sunk too. Plus 3 marines + 4 scv's would rape almost all of the drones, unless Flash made a major micro mistake.
Dude, jaedong made 2 creep colonies, if he pulled drones early, I'm pretty sure he could of made 1 sunken after delaying flash for a bit.
On January 04 2010 07:30 StylishVODs wrote:Show nested quote +Instead of making sunkens, use the 10 drones to delay flash, get the lings, then make the sunken and pull some drones off because 4 rines, 4 scv can't beat drones and lings. Jaedong probably would of lost 2~4 drones at most First off, he lost his overlord so he can't use a mineralline to micro his drones. Second, 3 marins + 4scvs will surely kill more than 2-4 drones if you drag them long enough to prevent a bunker going up. Unless flash fucked up it was a straight build order win. 7rax 4scv +OLkill vs 12hatch no scout.
Dude rewatch the game, you'll see that jaedong's lings came about 4~5 seconds after his drones and flash's little army engaged. Jaedong shouldn't of just relyed on the sunkens and just use drone ling to delay him and morph sunken then.
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On January 03 2010 18:21 Djabanete wrote:
Excellent individual league performance (OSL semis);
very good record in proleague (6-2);
strength in all matchups (top-notch ZvP and ZvZ, and the best ZvFlash yet);
recent championship win (in case you're not sure whether to grant the benefit of the doubt).
Add all that up and you get Calm. 9th place? What the fuck?
I think your definition of Top-Notch needs some extreme help.
Everyone watched Flash vs Calm (of which only 2 games were a decent showing by calm) and thinks that's how he always plays.
Hint: He doesn't always play like that. In fact he plays like complete crap more often than not and scraps by wins where he should be in a dominating position. Calm's play is just wildly inconsistent and he simply doesn't win like he freaking should if you want to claim he has top-notch ZvP and implied ZvT.
ZvZ i'll give you...even though Calm's muta control is inconsistent at best.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
This is probably the wrongest power rank ever.
Placing Stork before JD is completely wrong. As much as I like Stork, JD was just far better. Not even remotely close and everyone who agrees with you does it only to be on the safe side.
- Jaedong: JD was ranked 2 and won everything in Deceber except for the series against Flash and one game against Sea. He is also still in the MSL and on a good way to get to Semis. Losing a series against Flash in TvZ is no shame because Flash has a strategy that combined with his incredible Micro is not countered so far by ANY Zerg in the world.
- Stork: Comes from rank 5 and is out of both Star League in end of novemver / dezember.
You praise his PvZ as a reason why he is placed so high when in reality he is 4-5 (!!!) in his last 9 games against Zerg, counting from 11-30 on. Furthermore his losses against Effort and Shine were much worse than JDs losses vs. Flash.
I don't know if you really think that Stork was better than JD I can't help you and you should never do PR again. If you did it to provoke comments, well it worked for me, but you damage the reputation of the Power Rank. So whatever it is, it is just bs.
Also rating Calm so low is horrendous. I don't know why many people don't like him but that should not have an impact on his rank.
I don't think many would have complained if you put Calm on 4 or 5. Not including the ridiculousness that is "Flash vs. Zerg" the reigning MSL champion is 10-2 in Dezember and you rank him down by 2? And below Kwanro? What a joke.
If you watch G4 of Flash vs. Calm you can see Flash fistpump after winning G4. And that was a great sign of respect, neither JD nor anyone else managed to get a fistpump out of him, and he did it because he knew that he has to play his very best to beat calm.
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On January 04 2010 09:39 MuffinDude wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2010 05:36 QuakerOats wrote:
Oh, he edited the post while I was typing. Well, JD had to use 100 minerals to rebuild the ovy. If he pulled all of his drones that early I'm not sure he would have had enough minerals to make 8 lings and he definitely wouldn't have enough to build a sunk too. Plus 3 marines + 4 scv's would rape almost all of the drones, unless Flash made a major micro mistake. Dude, jaedong made 2 creep colonies, if he pulled drones early, I'm pretty sure he could of made 1 sunken after delaying flash for a bit. Show nested quote +On January 04 2010 07:30 StylishVODs wrote:Instead of making sunkens, use the 10 drones to delay flash, get the lings, then make the sunken and pull some drones off because 4 rines, 4 scv can't beat drones and lings. Jaedong probably would of lost 2~4 drones at most First off, he lost his overlord so he can't use a mineralline to micro his drones. Second, 3 marins + 4scvs will surely kill more than 2-4 drones if you drag them long enough to prevent a bunker going up. Unless flash fucked up it was a straight build order win. 7rax 4scv +OLkill vs 12hatch no scout. Dude rewatch the game, you'll see that jaedong's lings came about 4~5 seconds after his drones and flash's little army engaged. Jaedong shouldn't of just relyed on the sunkens and just use drone ling to delay him and morph sunken then.
List of people that agree with Stork > Jaedong (agree, not just accept)
You
Plexa
The other list including people who are bigger fans of Stork than Jaedong.
Of course, it's entirely possible only you two actually watched the games instead of relying on results and Stork fans and most others didn't.
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On January 04 2010 08:29 n.DieJokes wrote:
Also, while I'm at; get off you pedestal no one respects it. "Guys, Jaedong got embarrassed" because you're the final authority on the subject and we were all being ridiculous before you opened our eyes with magical truth. If you want to argue over who had more embarrassing loses, look no farther that Stork vs Shine where he loses gets dominated by a cheesy rookie.
Oh wow where did that come from? XD
*mimes getting off a pedestal*
Go and watch the games again if you think there was any sort of "domination" going on in Stork vs Shine. Both players played well in all 3 games IMO, and they were all hard-fought. (Criticising Stork for losing to a "cheesy rookie" when Jaedong was cheesed out by Flash is kind of weird too, fyi). There was nothing embarassing about that series.
I just re-watched Jaedong vs Flash game 1, and frankly this time the loss seemed more a product of Flash's brilliance than any major fail on Jaedong's part. So, perhaps embarrassed was too strong a word here too. It's hard to contend that Calm or Zero put up more of a fight in their series, though.
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EPT
