When will people start to understand that a build isn't bad just because there's another build that will beat it? There is NO build that will work in all situations. That's why you scout so you have an idea what your opponent is doing and whether a build is appropriate or whether you should go with something else. Obviously if you see the terran is going early pressure, you're not gonna want to fast expand.

Muey

Finland149 Posts

October 21 2010 15:33 GMT

#83

On October 21 2010 22:55 purecarnagge wrote:
1 base terran timing push will kill this build.

Let's see your replays.

Durp

Canada3117 Posts

October 21 2010 17:59 GMT

#84

This may be a dumb question, or in the wrong spot, but is this viable against zerg? I'm looking for an fe opener vs zerg to try out as 4gating and 2gate 15hatch roflstomping has gotten boring

FisHie

Germany12 Posts

October 21 2010 18:21 GMT

#85

some replays would be insane

Muey

Finland149 Posts

October 21 2010 18:43 GMT

#86

On October 22 2010 02:59 Durp wrote:
This may be a dumb question, or in the wrong spot, but is this viable against zerg? I'm looking for an fe opener vs zerg to try out as 4gating and 2gate 15hatch roflstomping has gotten boring

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=159671

Friend23

Poland270 Posts

October 21 2010 20:30 GMT

#87

I hardly see it work to the earliest mm agression if he goes 3 rax late exp or 3 rax ghost. So far I figured out that the safest of the safest builds are: fast charge into storm along with exp, then colossus if he goes any mm. This will also work against any earliest ghost push since you rely on cheap zealots. If he goes anything else than mm you want stargate and phoenix into observer and exp. That phoenix will deal with any marine banshee raven push or marines 1 helion 1 tank 1 raven 1 banshee push or pure marine/tank push.

Just recently Im trying to discover a good build against mm that relies on charge + 2/3 sentries + 2 stalkers + Archon. I could make the archon on 50 supply but got supplyblocked (noobme) so i did 2 archon push on 66.

PvT is easy. most of terrans dont use emp well. this is op shit it has like 125% of the range that feedback has. so stupid.

bocephus

United States3 Posts

October 21 2010 23:31 GMT

#88

i am not a very good player (top platinum league and not moving up or down) and i've used this build for an almost 60% winrate vs. terran. in general, barracks pressure hits hard as the nexus comes in- my 2 stalkers, 1 sentry and as many zealots as i can (maybe 3) along with about ten probes can barely hold it off, but they do and i win with a bigger economy once templar can storm.

Alejandrisha

United States6565 Posts

October 22 2010 06:32 GMT

#89

This build style is extremely effective on Jungle Basin as you can comfortably expand and hold your ramp. If you roll pvt on Jungle Basin there is really no reason not to do this build. You do have to give up map control until you get your templar tech but once you have it, there is almost nothing a terran can do if you have observers/spotter pylons all over the map. check out these two games I just played.. There is seriously nothing a terran can do to you once you get storm/map control on this map

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/94276-1v1-terran-protoss-jungle-basin

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/94278-1v1-terran-protoss-jungle-basin

Vasili

Australia125 Posts

October 22 2010 08:34 GMT

#90

I have a replay, 1400 Diamond player.. I expod just after 30 food and won the game by accelerating past my opponent in the income. He also attempted to in base PF me to which I didn't notice until it was about 60% complete

EDIT: This was Steppes of War, I wanted to see if you could make the FE build viable on short rush distance maps. Perhaps if he didn't PF me he would have won the initial push, but I could just use my probes anyways ^^

Valikyr

Sweden2653 Posts

October 22 2010 17:22 GMT

#91

On October 20 2010 07:01 MorroW wrote:
i was doing it to great success when i tested out some toss games :p won some top player terrans xd

Show nested quote +

not true :p

Yup the build is f-ing great. Just need to be able to adapt it vs early pressure.

Alejandrisha

United States6565 Posts

October 23 2010 03:44 GMT

#92

It's really easy to botch this if you get your robo up too quickly against a very aggressive terran. If you scout the front and see mauraders you should opt for an extremely warpgate heavy play after your expo is up and delay your robo until you actually need it. You need units NOW to defend it and the immortal will come to late and an observer will only see what you already know is coming.

Cloudstrife1337

United States30 Posts

October 23 2010 10:28 GMT

#93

Can someone please explain this to me??? Im still a fan of this build but this game just pissed me off.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/94681-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis

I did almost everything right.. I had almost 20 more supply before we fought..I had an observer for banshees....all he did was Stim and 1a to victory... really shows how little effort a terran needs to make to win a game.. so pathetic.

Gecko

United States519 Posts

October 23 2010 16:06 GMT

#94

On October 23 2010 19:28 Cloudstrife1337 wrote:
Can someone please explain this to me??? Im still a fan of this build but this game just pissed me off.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/94681-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis

I did almost everything right.. I had almost 20 more supply before we fought..I had an observer for banshees....all he did was Stim and 1a to victory... really shows how little effort a terran needs to make to win a game.. so pathetic.

You had way too many zealots, once MMM hits a huge mass zealots are worthless without charge and they do almost no damage. If you had more stalkers and immortals in that battle you would of done more damage and your entire army would not have been kited to death.

Indog

Canada15 Posts

October 23 2010 20:16 GMT

#95

IMO the first engagement would have been absolutely fine with better force fields. You want to use them to make it hard for him to get a concave. Stopping kiting is a good idea too, but you just used all of your energy to make a pretty wall behind his army which already had a perfect concave. Force him into an awkward position, save some energy for 1-2 guardian shields, and you'd be fine I bet. I think your composition was fine, you need zealots to tank with so many marauders.

MiKTeX

United States234 Posts

October 23 2010 20:46 GMT

#96

your gateways were not building half of the time. I assume that was because you did not have the money to build out of all of them, because from the replay you seemed to be able to keep your money down pretty well. next time try building 2-4 gateways and constantly producing out of them rather than just throwing down a whole ton of them because 6 gateways seems totally wicked and would crush any early pressure from those stupid 1AT terrans

as for "being 20 food ahead:" yes you indeed were 20 food ahead. you however had 51 probes to his 26 scvs. that is 25 food. not counting your observer as part of your army (since it was useless in the engagement), you were actually 6 food behind his army, and in the engagement your focefields did nothing to help that matter. next time try to split his army up and mess with his positioning. you made a very cool wall that prevented him from escaping from the army that he didnt have to escape from anyways and he could still kite your zealots

my advice: practice for better macro. also build less gateways

zTz

United States476 Posts

October 24 2010 00:28 GMT

#97

NEXGenius must have read the wiki in his games vs Loner during blizzcon

1gate xpo to 4warpgate stopping 2rax tech/reactor stim timing for all you haters out there

Indog

Canada15 Posts

October 24 2010 04:16 GMT

#98

On October 24 2010 09:28 zTz wrote:
NEXGenius must have read the wiki in his games vs Loner during blizzcon

1gate xpo to 4warpgate stopping 2rax tech/reactor stim timing for all you haters out there

On the other hand, Huk did it against MakaPrime and got steamrolled by a 3rax stim push. The replay is here: http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/show/id/2365 . Huk had the timing perfect to check for Marauders at the front door, but MakaPrime did a ridiculously awesome fake by building a bunker as if he was teching/expanding causing Huk to throw down a Robo earlier instead of another gateway. The bunker was salvaged as soon as it completed. When the push hit, HuK was sadly without sentries.

Alejandrisha

United States6565 Posts

October 24 2010 09:39 GMT

#99

the ones that the pros do are usually a 26nexus with 1 stalker. I'm not sure why, because I think a 30-31 nexus is more efficient and safer. the 26 nexus cuts probes which, for an fe strat, is pretty counter-intuitive. When they do the 26 nex they end up with ~55 food at 8:00 and I usually get about 60 food at that point. maybe there is a little timing when they have more units.

I think the 26 nexus just allows their added gate ways to go up right when the research finishes but with the 31 nexus your warpgate tech finishes before your 3rd and perhaps 4th finish. That's all I can think of

GHOSTCLAW

United States17042 Posts

October 25 2010 02:02 GMT

#100

the KCDC build was used to great effect in 3 games out of 4 against loner at blizzcon. very very cool. Super super fragile though, as loner was able to beat nexgenius in the first BO3 which tossed nexgenius in the losers bracket.