I have been using this build for awhile now. I love it. Fast expo against terran is just so great. This build is one of the reasons I think pvt is the easiest protoss mu.

sylverfyre

United States8298 Posts

October 20 2010 02:42 GMT

#42

The whole point of zealot+chronoboosted stalker is that you scout the front of the terran with the zealot+stalker, and determine whether it's safe to FE or to add gateway(s) and/or robo for immortal to stop early pressure (M&M, banshee rush, w/e) The zealot+stalker will hit at a timing that the T won't have more than a few units out, so you can poke, take a pot shot or two on bio units (try to only take shield damage yourself - terran doesn't heal til medivacs!), and force the terran to show you his hand, and back off.

If he's doing an early 1base push, you can build up a bit more before expanding (depends on map too)

Knickknack

United States1187 Posts

October 20 2010 03:39 GMT

#43

The small contributions I made to the strategy are not really apparent based on the entry. Credit kcdc (started thread), markwef (came up with bo, though not exactly one shown), and Zazaodh(started liquipedia page).

Main things to add and explain for the build early on to my mind are 1. scouting with probe & scouting with z/stalker, 2. unit composition/the sentry issue, 3.number of gates/robo timing.

KillerPlague

United States1386 Posts

October 20 2010 03:57 GMT

#44

personally this build has been feeling a bit weak to me and needs more umph. lately ive switched to huks version of this build where he gets 3 quick gateways, and a robotics when he feels he needs it. also save up chrono boost just in case you need to warp in tons of units quickly.

Vexin

Romania84 Posts

October 20 2010 04:08 GMT

#45

I can see this becoming a staple opening on big maps like LT or SP. It's just really good.

kcdc

United States2311 Posts

October 20 2010 04:17 GMT

#46

Woot. Love seeing my ID pop up around TL now. Only thing I'd add is that I really think you need 3 gates before robo on all but very long rush distances unless you're pretty sure they're not going for early pressure (you've scouted a factory in a spot that's not likely to float into your base while MM hits the front).

SoJu.WeRRa

Korea (South)820 Posts

October 20 2010 05:04 GMT

#47

In my opinion, this build order isn't bad at all but too risky against some T players who usually play "micro game".

ChickenLips

2912 Posts

October 20 2010 06:17 GMT

#48

I've been having a ton of succes going the good old 2rax (1 reactor, 1 tech lab) into 2 starport banshee (raven first) and hitting when combat shields is done after stim. I pull 15 SCVs to make sure I kill the natural while expanding at the same time. The Protoss usually ends up gging or contained in his base while I pull ahead with 2 mules (12 SCVs).

Also 2 rax expanding and then putting up another 2 rax after the CC (2 blank, 2 tech lab) and macroing up and getting all bio upgrades (CS, conc, stim) and hitting precisely at 9:00 while microing a lot. If the Protoss isn't worlds above you you will easily be able to get his army out of position or use his forcefields so his zealots cannot hit you (never let zealots get close to you, NEVER). Be very cautious when you stim since over-stimming is gonna kill you.

Riouh

Netherlands60 Posts

October 20 2010 07:05 GMT

#49

[QUOTE

with your IQ of 130 and perfectly toned body

it's like you're spying on me.
anyways i'll check it out sounds interesting!
muchos respectos to you guys at liquipedia, learned a lot from your site ^^

Ftrunkz

Australia2474 Posts

October 20 2010 08:48 GMT

#50

Im using my own variation of this and have been for about 2 months now, easily my standard opening =].

zoOv

Australia269 Posts

October 20 2010 09:05 GMT

#51

This build actually works really really well. Just have to spread and micro your early units properly against early aggression and once you hold it off you're ahead.

Coulthard

Greece3359 Posts

October 20 2010 09:07 GMT

#52

Popularized by Day9? Oh come on

Celadan

Norway471 Posts

October 20 2010 09:46 GMT

#53

Hmm..... I don't like capitalism -_-

But anyways nice to see some FE build order, and yes i know FE is map dependant(unless you know EXCACTLY how to pull it of timingwise) but i might try this on larger maps like metapolis or LT.

Might even post a rep, but I think TL can live on without one.

Markwerf

Netherlands3728 Posts

October 20 2010 12:06 GMT

#54

I shouldn't be credited for this, I only stole it from kcdc and posted a build order and other stuff in that thread. It is the most solid build order there is against T now I think, especially since the 1.1.2 voidray nerf and nexus HP buff.

The exact build order isn't set in stone though so it isn't the most appropiate thing for a liquipedia article perhaps but I mostly use this:
9 pylon
13 gate
15 assimilator
16 pylon
18 cyber
19 zealot
21 pylon
22 stalker
26 zealot
30 nexus
30 sentry
Then either 2 gateways or 1 gateway and 1 robo depending on what you scout.
2 additional gateways is safer vs MMM play and 1 robo is safer vs anything else (marine/tank, banshee pushes etc.)

Early scouting is hardly important anymore since 1.1.2 the only thing your probe scout is determine where the terran base is at really, therefore I send it at 15 on 4 player maps and don't probe scout at all on 2 player maps. You aren't going to change your build anyway and I always send my first zealot to the terran base (unless it's a really long distance in which case the FE is safe anyways). The thing is, you aren't going to scout anything relevant with that probe anyway as their build is 95% the same untill their first marine pops out. You want to scout if they went with a fast marauder (indicating tech lab thus highly likely to indicate MMM play and excluding early banshee play) or if they went with marines / bunker. Against fast marauder you want to back off immedialtely with your zealot (which you can as shells finish just after your zealot leaves their base at the earliest). Against just marines you want to poke a bit with zealot/stalker and try to see what's up a bit more, usually fast factory in which case you want to get a fast robo.

An important thing is to build as little as possible at your natural. The more open it is the easier it is to fight for you (you want to position your army near your probes usually and let the nexus take the first shots) and most importantly against SCV all-ins you can pull back to your main and let the expo die. If they pull 20 scv's to kill your expo and you just forcefield them out your main waiting for colossi you will win.

sylverfyre

United States8298 Posts

October 20 2010 12:51 GMT

#55

On October 20 2010 18:07 Coulthard wrote:
Popularized by Day9? Oh come on

He DID do a daily focusing entirely on Toss FE vs Terran, and a LOT of people watch him. He didn't invent it, but popularized? Sure.

Danglars

United States12133 Posts

October 20 2010 12:54 GMT

#56

Thank you LiquiPedia editors & contributors!

Dream-

United States20 Posts

October 20 2010 13:01 GMT

#57

In my opinion, this build is flexible, but the way you described it was a little weird. Being a 1800 Diamond player (not 2200, sorry), I've realized that after the patch, the safest way to secure your expo now on maps with semi-long rush distances (Not steppes/Blistering), is to just get 1 gate standard, and do your expansion at around 18. Throw a pylon/Cybo up immediately after and you should be good. The thing about early expanding is you need units asap to hold off a 2 rax pressure. So after you actuallyget the nexus, don't be afraid to throw down up to 4 more gates immediately to ensure you have the unit support to hold it. I prefer to do 4 gate and add in the robo. You can play in the dark for about 7 minutes and really have everything you needed for defense, just make sure you have a robo up by around the 8 minute mark for cloaked banshees and you should be good.

HeadhunteR

Argentina1258 Posts

October 20 2010 14:48 GMT

#58

On October 20 2010 21:51 sylverfyre wrote:

Show nested quote +

He DID do a daily focusing entirely on Toss FE vs Terran, and a LOT of people watch him. He didn't invent it, but popularized? Sure.

I was wondering when this build would show up in the front page it seemed too solid/good...
Toss is the new terran?

Carras

Argentina860 Posts

October 20 2010 14:51 GMT

#59

well i do the attack with 2maines 2 marauders v p almost alwyas (sometimes when its not viable i go 2 rax expand)
so i would win everygame against this strat