EPT[LP] Protoss Capitalists (1 Gate FE vs. T) - Page 4
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stroggos
New Zealand1543 Posts
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
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slained
Canada966 Posts
However doing a FE on longer distances is definitely the best choice. On the liquipedia I really really disagree with some of the the advice like what is considered a bad transition; * Bad Transitions: * Collosi - With only Stalkers being able to shoot Banshees and Ravens, you will be incredibly disadvantaged. for example. I really disagree with being at an incredible disadvantage, generally terrans have a really high unupgraded rine count which collosi can capitalize on, so its not necessarily a bad transition, I've seen a lot of good toss players swipe out all the rines in a few seconds then the terran is left with pure air units unsupported. So its important to keep an eye out on how heavy the terran is on marines, often times terrans throw a reactor upgrade and pump marines nonstop. Its also great when scvs come to repair as they fall fast. | ||
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Gecko
United States519 Posts
On October 21 2010 01:50 slained wrote: Ive been doing it since the start of sc2 even got to 63rd in the top 200 ladder due to having a week of facing pure terrans. I find honestly on close position maps its almost not needed to 1 gate FE doing a 2 or even 3 gate FE before warpgates is done gives you a more comfortable defense against any sort of 3 rax or even 2 rax timing pushes. The delay from a 1 gate FE vs a 2 or 3 gate is less than a minute. The general expansion timing generally should always stay the same at 31-34 supply However doing a FE on longer distances is definitely the best choice. On the liquipedia I really really disagree with some of the the advice like what is considered a bad transition; * for example. I really disagree with being at an incredible disadvantage, generally terrans have a really high unupgraded rine count which collosi can capitalize on, so its not necessarily a bad transition, I've seen a lot of good toss players swipe out all the rines in a few seconds then the terran is left with pure air units unsupported. So its important to keep an eye out on how heavy the terran is on marines, often times terrans throw a reactor upgrade and pump marines nonstop. Its also great when scvs come to repair as they fall fast. I also disagree with the whole " * Collosi - With only Stalkers being able to shoot Banshees and Ravens, you will be incredibly disadvantaged. " thing. IF you FEd and he went 2port banshees, you will have more stalkers than his banshees can defeat and the colossus can melt his puny bio army, so in reality there is a timing window where you can automatically beat 2port banshee of you go colossus. | ||
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ensis
Germany340 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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JoeSchmoe
Canada2058 Posts
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Gecko
United States519 Posts
On October 21 2010 04:27 ensis wrote: IF ITS SO GOOD, JUST WHY IS NO SINGLE PROGAMER BE IT FOREIGNER OR KOREAN EVER USING IT EFFECTIVELY?!?!?!??! (really dont know) Huk used this at MLG and got 3rd, sSKS uses similar builds, Day9 likes this build and did a daily on it. On October 21 2010 04:27 JoeSchmoe wrote: This strat does not work on LT. Ever. If the Terran player knows what he's doing. Tank + 3 marines + 1 scv on your cliff and it's gg. In general I think 1 gate to FE is still too risky. If the terran brings off some SCVs for the all-in I honestly don't see how you can win. thats why you take the map into consideration when you use a build on it. If you suspect a cliff drop then you can make a warp prism before your first observer to deal with it. Scout alot and if you see a cheese coming THEN SWITCH TO A MORE DEFENSIVE BUILD!!!!! Its not risky at all because you can scout a cheese before the nexus goes down and make gateways and some sentries instead of the nexus. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On October 21 2010 04:27 JoeSchmoe wrote: This strat does not work on LT. Ever. If the Terran player knows what he's doing. Tank + 3 marines + 1 scv on your cliff and it's gg. In general I think 1 gate to FE is still too risky. If the terran brings off some SCVs for the all-in I honestly don't see how you can win. Just make an observer man.... | ||
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Zvendetta
United States321 Posts
With cannons, your expo is more easily defended, and later allows you to grab +1 weapons easier. Is is that against terrans cannons aren't as powerful as regular unit production is? | ||
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wishbones
Canada2600 Posts
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 20 2010 06:43 Vz0 wrote: This build doesn't work on most maps. I can see htis working in jungle basin or lost temple with a small choke. Maps like xel caverns = insta gg if terran knows what hes doing. 3rax can kill2gate robo (with no ff choke). now imagine 3rax vs 2gaterobo + nexus Classic mindnumbing theorycrafter. X build won't work because Y build counters it and everybody knows it blah blah blah | ||
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Selendis
Australia509 Posts
Basically as soon as the gateway is done I put down a nexus, nice and early. then it's constant zealot and probe production while I slowly tech up to chargelots and add more gates. At around the time my twilight council is built (and most terran timed attacks) my supecharged economy starts kicking in. The zealots I have are mince meat to any early terran attacks but i can replace them easily enough that the aggressors leave my economy alone. And when my chrono boosted charge is done, the tables instantly turn as all terran mm become eviscerated by my 8 gate 2 base zealots that I keep pumping out. And then it becomes GG. Admittedly this build does have a few weaknesses, but against terran mm balls, it is unstoppable Special thanks to my practice partner spiegel for educating me on the original build. I now love zealots again. :D | ||
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aLt)nirvana
Singapore846 Posts
say on steppes of war, is it possible? and normal maps like LT cross positions | ||
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Gecko
United States519 Posts
On October 21 2010 11:26 aLt)nirvana wrote: does anyone know how this build fares against 3rax MMM with stim? say on steppes of war, is it possible? and normal maps like LT cross positions The only build that consistently gives me trouble is marine all ins, this beats pretty much any other timing push. | ||
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Whiplash
United States2929 Posts
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Doko
Argentina1737 Posts
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Selendis
Australia509 Posts
On October 21 2010 11:26 aLt)nirvana wrote: does anyone know how this build fares against 3rax MMM with stim? say on steppes of war, is it possible? and normal maps like LT cross positions My practice partner and I first tested the build on steppes of war, using a timed 3 rax stimmed marine push. The 1 gate FE into 8 warpgate build worked flawlessly. harass me a bit more if you want a replay, I think I still have them. | ||
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stroggos
New Zealand1543 Posts
On October 21 2010 11:26 aLt)nirvana wrote: does anyone know how this build fares against 3rax MMM with stim? say on steppes of war, is it possible? and normal maps like LT cross positions i dont actually think it would be too bad on steppes, since the natural choke can be cut off by a mere 2 FF's. I don't practice this build often though so i wouldn't know. Close positions on LT would be truly difficult | ||
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purecarnagge
719 Posts
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