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On October 25 2010 11:02 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
the KCDC build was used to great effect in 3 games out of 4 against loner at blizzcon. very very cool. Super super fragile though, as loner was able to beat nexgenius in the first BO3 which tossed nexgenius in the losers bracket.
To be fair, 1 Gate FE in closest possible positions on Lost Temple against an outstanding Terran was a phenomenally stupid idea.
I mean, it's my favourite build by far, but getting the promised economic advantage necessitates actually surviving into the mid-game. I've successfully held closest possible positions 1 Gate FE, but I doubt I'd try it against Loner.
On the opposite side of the spectrum, the championship match was beautiful. I feel bad for Loner, and I think it would have been really cool for a non-Korean to take it, but damn me if Genius wasn't excreting liquefied awesome.
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On October 25 2010 11:44 Aylear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 11:02 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
the KCDC build was used to great effect in 3 games out of 4 against loner at blizzcon. very very cool. Super super fragile though, as loner was able to beat nexgenius in the first BO3 which tossed nexgenius in the losers bracket. To be fair, 1 Gate FE in closest possible positions on Lost Temple against an outstanding Terran was a phenomenally stupid idea. I mean, it's my favourite build by far, but getting the promised economic advantage necessitates actually surviving into the mid-game. I've successfully held closest possible positions 1 Gate FE, but I doubt I'd try it against Loner. On the opposite side of the spectrum, the championship match was beautiful. I feel bad for Loner, and I think it would have been really cool for a non-Korean to take it, but damn me if Genius wasn't excreting liquefied awesome.
Nexgenius hosed the build pretty badly in that game though. He got a second gas ridiculously early, (i seem to remember him hitting 300 gas early), didn't get a zealot before his stalker (ended up having 0 zealots when the push hit), made 4 gateways instead of getting more units out of 2 or 3, stopped probe production unnecessarily for a while... despite all of these mistakes he almost held it off.
Loner could have also had an expo with all of the pressure he was putting on since he had like 3 marauders queued at some point.
Edit: I probably shouldn't be using the word "mistakes", he might have been trying to go sentry heavy since the narrow natural choke on lost temple. It obviously didn't work though, and it seemed like just having like 1 more zealot and stalker would have had a much better chance of holding. That second gas cost him the 75 minerals and mineral mining time from 3 probes. Combined with the 4th gate that was barely used, I think he would have been safer with more mineral units.
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Nah the early second gas was mind games with Loner, making him think he was teching. He took the probes off after taking out the SCV. Loner caught on though so it was a waste.
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You're right about pulling the probes, I missed that the first time. But he did put those 3 probes back on gas after about a minute... just before the push hit, he had ~400 gas and no zealots. Oops.
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Kinda how i alrdy play, but i 1 robo then nexus :O its very good. but i'll try this, it sounds easier to hold off. idk ima give it a try. thx for the tips !
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Bisutopia19400 Posts
4gate is still the strongest imo
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That build is not good, simply becouse if you dont pressure the terran early, you are playing in the dark (robo is FAR 2 late). You could just die to a 2 rax tank+raven, to 3 rax, to helions, to thor + repair, to fast banshes, to .. FAST EXPO from terran... that build is OK for everything, but only if you are the better player.
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konadora
Singapore66366 Posts
interesting, didn't know you can FE safely in sc2. shall try it out soon :3
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On October 20 2010 06:43 Vz0 wrote:
This build doesn't work on most maps. I can see htis working in jungle basin or lost temple with a small choke. Maps like xel caverns = insta gg if terran knows what hes doing.
3rax can kill2gate robo (with no ff choke).
now imagine 3rax vs 2gaterobo + nexus
I completely agree with this guy.
I have done this build countless times on ladder, and it has worked wonders. I had steppes vetoed so I havnt played it on that. Recently I did custom, and they picked steps against a scrub terran. i did the exact same build, he pushes 3 rax at 8 mins, roflstomps my army. My economy was just about to kick in then. I reviewed the replay, and had a few micro problems but it still wasnt going to save me.
Basically I will refuse to do this build on steppes. I'd rather go 3 gate expo, or 4 gate early pressure then expo.
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Terrible build and will only work unscouted, cross positions on long maps, or against someone who has no idea how to pressure. 2 gate fake zealot/stalker pressure into expand works a lot better... especially since players who see 2 fast gates expect some sort of suicide rush. Cutting that first zealot and a probe and dropping another gate does wonders even if it takes slightly longer to get the expo after the extra stalker.
I mean... if you have 200 apm, can multitask with godly micro then by all means, continue this... I can't
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Basically I will refuse to do this build on steppes. I'd rather go 3 gate expo, or 4 gate early pressure then expo.
4 gate is pretty much all in... but survivable if you do significant damage. The 4th gate only helps your short term unit production for a short short bit while cutting probes... basically to about 50-60 supply, then if you continue utilizing all 4 gates you get stuck unable to tech or expo. You can pressure with 3 gates almost equally effectively... the difference that fourth gets you is enough to punish weak defenses of greedy builds
On October 27 2010 11:29 BisuDagger wrote:
4gate is still the strongest imo
only while the weak defense expo or tech rush remains popular.
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On October 24 2010 13:16 Indog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2010 09:28 zTz wrote:NEXGenius must have read the wiki in his games vs Loner during blizzcon  1gate xpo to 4warpgate stopping 2rax tech/reactor stim timing for all you haters out there On the other hand, Huk did it against MakaPrime and got steamrolled by a 3rax stim push. The replay is here: http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/show/id/2365 . Huk had the timing perfect to check for Marauders at the front door, but MakaPrime did a ridiculously awesome fake by building a bunker as if he was teching/expanding causing Huk to throw down a Robo earlier instead of another gateway. The bunker was salvaged as soon as it completed. When the push hit, HuK was sadly without sentries.
fake outs are in a class all their own
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Pylone 9 (3 times chronoboost your nexus which means you start to save it once your core started)
gate 13 => probe scout
gaz 15
2nd pylone 16
core + 1 zealot
3rd pylone 22
3 stalkers (full gate chronoboosted)
30/34 cut probes production
Nexus b2
sentry
2 gates+ 1 robo + 2nd gaz + 2 pylones
warpgate => 1 sentry + full zealots
7min => timing m&m stim push.
You got now few zeals/stalks and 2 sentries with 3 FF to defend your expand (you can still use your 6 probes from b2 to help if you need).
always put stalkers (dps/hit and run) behind zealots (meatshield) and use chronoboost on warpgates once you see him coming =)
After this, you should be ok to restart producing probes and making more gates+colossus to counter the T easily.
It works pretty well even on step of war 
Just need some practice vs friends =)
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EPT
