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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On May 18 2010 00:28 Waxangel wrote: "just playing devil's advocate" = trolling please stop. My intention was to defend a man everyone is ganging up on, not trolling. But since you view it as such, I'll stop. | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
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ExO_
United States2316 Posts
There's really no way to know and idk how possible it would be to research into it further. But he could have done it, there is a possibility that he has thrown other games not proven here. | ||
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Rus_Brain
Russian Federation1893 Posts
I have free-translated at reps.ruu Hope you don't mind <3 Cheerz, RB | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On May 18 2010 00:43 Zato-1 wrote: My intention was to defend a man everyone is ganging up on, not trolling. But since you view it as such, I'll stop. Meh... I don't like when people get muted because they go against a popular opinion. Really, who's more mature? The guy who's pointing out nuances in the popular opinion, or the mass of people railing on cheaters, rehashing the same QQ's over and over again. People like to say "haters gonna hate", and it's true. It's fine to be angry at those people for fooling us. I mean, how many games have I been nearly standing up on my chair screaming at my monitor when in reality I was just getting deceived. It sucks, but is this thread's sole purpose is to rail on the players? It feels to me like everyone should be allowed to post their opinion. It's not like Zato-1 even looked like a troll, unless he was a very, very soft troll. Preaching to the choir is just not all that awesome. Anyway - in my opinion, it is true that Savior is a lot less likable now, but it's NOT blasphemy to point out that Savior was, at one point, truly the Maestro of Zerg... Anyway, that'll be all. Cheers! | ||
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EntertainMe
864 Posts
On May 16 2010 18:37 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Officially a real sport now. Also keep in mind that the proof or what they release of it is probably incomplete (but not necessarily inconclusive) and that most of these guys especially Savior made a lot more than a few grand as some seem to think. Also suggesting Savior lost on purpose to Bisu seems speculation at best, but probably a bunch of crap. The money prize he can win from the league is nearly as much as the numbers they state in the article, add to that potential sponsor money and it overshadows these suggested numbers x20. Add in a little bit of honor and you got a really unlikely mix for dropping that final on purpose. To suggest otherwise without prove is pretty ignorant at this point. This. Incentive will be too great to ignore. Also, if he wins, he will earn even more by losing the following games that aren't that important as well (in general, i understand that the stakes will be higher in finals). Not only did Savior earn money for connecting other fellow gamers with the scandal, I'm fairly certain that he bet on their games too, since he would know the outcome as well. And like countless others said, the sum of money are scaled down heavily. P.s. I thought other big issue was corrupted players selling their teammates replays (that are prepared for a big match, strategies to be used) to other team's coaches prior to the matches? How can coaches then not be involved? Doesn't make sense not sinlge one of them is corrupted. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On May 18 2010 01:20 EntertainMe wrote: P.s. I thought other big issue was corrupted players selling their teammates replays (that are prepared for a big match, strategies to be used) to other team's coaches prior to the matches? How can coaches then not be involved? Doesn't make sense that they're all innocent. That may be handled separately if it's handled at all. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On May 18 2010 00:28 Waxangel wrote: My intention was to defend a man everyone is ganging up on, not trolling. But since you view it as such, I'll stop. Must be a misunderstanding then, because playing devil's advocate means defending a position you don't agree with. If you actually believe Savior is getting an unfair amount of criticism then you're not playing devil's advocate. I still think you are wrong but if you can make your case without personal attacks I think you are unlikely to get banned just because of your opinion. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On May 18 2010 01:26 hypercube wrote: Must be a misunderstanding then, because playing devil's advocate means defending a position you don't agree with. You are right. I misused the term- I was in fact defending a position I agreed with. | ||
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Ryo
8787 Posts
On May 18 2010 00:45 Crisium wrote: go.go? Wouldn't he always be the most likely to lose? He's still my number one Terran until I see it 100% confirmed. Yes, this is something that doesn't make much sense, especially since it's supposedly the go.go v Light game in the proleague. Doesn't everyone expect go.go to lose against Light anyway? And it was hardly an important game. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On May 16 2010 18:37 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Officially a real sport now. Also keep in mind that the proof or what they release of it is probably incomplete (but not necessarily inconclusive) and that most of these guys especially Savior made a lot more than a few grand as some seem to think. Also suggesting Savior lost on purpose to Bisu seems speculation at best, but probably a bunch of crap. The money prize he can win from the league is nearly as much as the numbers they state in the article, add to that potential sponsor money and it overshadows these suggested numbers x20. Add in a little bit of honor and you got a really unlikely mix for dropping that final on purpose. To suggest otherwise without prove is pretty ignorant at this point. It's a lot easier to lose on purpose than to win though. Takes much less effort too. Not saying he did it because there's no evidence pointing that way, but saying it wouldn't have made sense is going too far. | ||
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EntertainMe
864 Posts
On May 18 2010 01:34 hypercube wrote: It's a lot easier to lose on purpose than to win though. Takes much less effort too. Not saying he did it because there's no evidence pointing that way, but saying it wouldn't have made sense is going too far. It's a lot easier to lose on purpose, yes. However, in this case, the benefit of winning far outweighs the benefit of losing. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On May 18 2010 01:36 EntertainMe wrote: It's a lot easier to lose on purpose, yes. However, in this case, the benefit of winning far outweighs the benefit of losing. The benefits of losing depends on how much you can bet against yourself and at what odds without getting caught immediately. This basically depends on how big the game and how much is everyone else betting. If Savior could have bet $100,000 on Bisu at 3:1 it would have been easily worth it financially. | ||
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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
I kinda wonder if BackHo did this, or his play was just that erratic. 30+ kill -> loss was his style, and I can't imagine that was easy. | ||
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EntertainMe
864 Posts
On May 18 2010 01:44 hypercube wrote: The benefits of losing depends on how much you can bet against yourself and at what odds without getting caught immediately. This basically depends on how big the game and how much is everyone else betting. If Savior could have bet $100,000 on Bisu at 3:1 it would have been easily worth it financially. Prize money + Guaranteed Incentive (usually same as prize pot matched by sponsor) + Possibility of Yearly salary increase for 3/5 year contract + fame + the title of the most dominat bonjwa (incentive here as well, consecutive title winning) + team bonus + other unseen benefits(broadcasting/advertisement) > $300,000 (which I HIGHLY doubt would be the figure) | ||
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ExO_
United States2316 Posts
On May 18 2010 02:03 EntertainMe wrote: Prize money + Guaranteed Incentive (usually same as prize pot) + Possibility of Yearly salary increase for 3 year contract + fame + the title of the most dominat bonjwa (incentive here as well) + team bonus + other unseen benefits > $300,000 (which I doubt would be the figure) Right but a lot of that is based on "if" he wins. Monetary wise it would be safer to just throw the game. Not saying he did that or that it would even make sense for him to do that (because it wouldn't), but he could have done it. | ||
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Disastorm
United States922 Posts
On May 17 2010 17:56 disciple wrote: Hwasin, savior and Luxury are a formidable lineup - maybe they will form a prison progaming team. I'm not worried about their careers I would totally forgive all of them if they did that. Their uniform could be that black and white stripe cliche thing. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On May 18 2010 02:03 EntertainMe wrote: Prize money + Guaranteed Incentive (usually same as prize pot matched by sponsor) + Possibility of Yearly salary increase for 3/5 year contract + fame + the title of the most dominat bonjwa (incentive here as well, consecutive title winning) + team bonus + other unseen benefits(broadcasting/advertisement) > $300,000 (which I HIGHLY doubt would be the figure) I kinda doubt that's even true but you need to multiply the LHS by about 0.7 (if you think Savior had a 70% chance to win). Still, the biggest uncertainty is how much he or his friends can get away with betting. To be honest I have no idea. It might have been less than $100,000. It might have also been much more. Let's look at it from a different point. If you knew he threw proleague matches before the final against Bisu would you say it's possible he threw the final too? Because the rewards are the same either way. | ||
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NinetyWhon
United States20 Posts
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
On May 18 2010 02:57 NinetyWhon wrote: I know why they did it, and for you morons that think korean pro gamers are not making any money, the exchange rate from won to 1 U.S. Dollar as of FEB.2 2009 is 144 won to 1 US dollar. Now its 2010, and iam sure its more because the united states is smart and is still printing money we dont have. Lol inflation owns us. >.> So 3 mil won = approx $208,308 U.S. Dollars. What are you smoking? For the past like 10 years, exchange rate from USD to Won has been around 1 USD for 1000~1400 Won. Know your currency before posting garbage... You can google "USD to Won conversion" and find 1 : 1136 or something today. Using that rate, 3 million won is equal to 2640 USD. | ||
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