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A Classy Game of Mafia - Page 16

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 06:19 GMT
#9165
Jealous I have some questions:

On March 15 2024 09:07 Jealous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2024 09:22 Jealous wrote:
Did a quick dive on Palmar before I have to head out again. Based on D1 alone, I think he basically has to be town. I'll explain my thinking in the form of questions:

1. Would scum!Palmar immediately bus scum!Oats and scum!TTS practically out the gate?
2. Would scum!Palmar go along with town sentiment to elect Vivax mayor instead of what he claims is his preference, which is to lynch him for the claim?


To make an addendum to #2, if we believe what Palmar is saying about wanting to lynch Vivax for the claim, I think the only world in which scum!Palmar simply gives up and lets Vivax have the election without offering resistance is if it's scum!Palmar and scum!Vivax, and if it's scum!Vivax then it basically has to be scum!DP and they bussed TTS. So, I think this is practically impossible. Therefore, I think based on this foundation, scum!Palmar is incredibly unlikely to me at this juncture.

I'll refine further when I get back but this is what I have so far.

Quotes for reference, non-exhaustive list (he makes other posts re: Vivax running for mayor, Oats, etc):
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 05 2024 19:41 Palmar wrote:
So I'm going to talk about a few people now. Consider this just rambling thoughts about the thread that I'm absolutely not going to read in full. Probably gonna do this in a few parts so my reads might evolve from now until I've done the last people I want to talk about.

Oatsmaster

Both initially, and currently, the reason he's my tentative #1 lynch target is based on exactly one thing, this:

Show nested quote +
On March 04 2024 12:19 Oatsmaster wrote:
I’m running for mayor


Go find that post in his filter, then read the following maybe... 20 posts? I don't think there is a single one of them where he is actually pushing to get himself elected as mayor. Ironically he scolded someone else for doing that same thing.

Show nested quote +
On March 04 2024 12:39 Oatsmaster wrote:
On March 04 2024 12:25 DarthPunk wrote:
On March 04 2024 12:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
On March 04 2024 12:21 DarthPunk wrote:
Mayor will sort itself out, probably be marv at the end of the day if he is town.

Hi again, not a big fan of you not pushing to be mayor, what gives?


I don't think pushing for it actually does anything.

You don’t seem to even want to be mayor


There really isn't much else to it. The case is simply "He said he wanted to be mayor but then none of his posting seems to point towards him actually wanting to be mayor".

It's far from lock scum case, it's mostly just a bad play regardless of alignment, but it's... maybe easier to explain as an attempt to do something bold as mafia. I'm gonna read more before I plant a vote or anything.

VisceraEyes

Part of me just wants him to be town because I'm happy VE is playing, so I admit it may be an overreaching town read.

But it's mostly a tone read. He seems to be happy to be playing the game. He said he wanted mayor and actually made a few follow up posts complaining no one was voting for him.

Also this isn't even alignment indicative but it's super good.

Show nested quote +
On March 05 2024 11:39 VisceraEyes wrote:
People saying unccd in a semi open setup is making my eyes roll so hard they're doing back flips. God I've never wished I was Mafia more in a game.


I have zero interest in lynching VE today.

DMB


So I haven't really read anything of hers but I just wanted to make this point.

Show nested quote +
On March 05 2024 06:18 die_meatbaby wrote:
On March 05 2024 06:13 Palmar wrote:
On March 05 2024 06:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On March 05 2024 06:10 Palmar wrote:
Good morning, I see we're up to a casual 60+ pages.

Where did you wake up from???

It's 8am in Iceland right now, what are you talking about?


Iceland has 1 or 2 hours time difference than Austria. It is not possible. You come here and directly start to lie?? It should be 9:18 or 8 :18 PM


She confuses me so much. I make something that's an obvious joke, and she jumps on it? Why? My gut is "well that's stupid and townies do stupid shit". But my meta is that she's perfectly willing to do stupid shit as mafia from last game.

She does get townie points for completely forgetting I exist in her list post though.

But yeah, I don't actually have a read on her, it's just something I noticed.


On March 05 2024 10:07 Palmar wrote:
If I was less lazy I would basically force everyone into either voting vivax mayor or voting to lynch him. Fencesitting on a blue claim is just bad.

I haven’t read his filter but my instinct is to mayor Vivax.

On March 05 2024 22:47 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2024 22:42 justanothertownie wrote:
On March 05 2024 22:37 Palmar wrote:
On March 05 2024 22:36 CopCake wrote:
On March 05 2024 22:31 Palmar wrote:
So thoughts on Vivax

1) His claim is dumb as shit and he shouldn't do it as town or mafia.
2) He did claim so we work with what we got
3) He didn't hide behind his claim which points to townie, he posted like 6 pages since that claim, so whatever the point was with his claim at least it wasn't "I'll just claim this and chill"
4) He is actually trying. Now I know I was wrong last game when I lynched him for not trying, but I still think there is merit in that kind of read with Vivax

In conclusion, I think he is more likely to be town than mafia, so I'm just gonna vote him for mayor.

There's also the completely stupid reason that absolutely no one seems to be calling him mafia, [/]and a bunch of people call him town but don't want to vote him as mayor. That's an indicator (admittedly a terrible one) of his sort of general standing within the town. It's like a minor town point.

That solves that problem for me.

I honestly don't feel like I know enough about the game to direct Vivax' lynch. Maybe I'll gather enough info today to help though.


I think, I said, he can do this as mafia.


Oh he can, what Vivax lacks in brains he has in balls.

I just don't think anyone is trying to argue that he is. Like make a case on him if you think this is wrong.

That's a false dichotomy. You don't have to think he is mafia in order to prefer someone else as mayor.


You don't have to, I'm not your mom. But it's still stupid.

Like it or not, by claiming Vivax made the game about himself.

The objectively correct play as town here is to lynch him. That is literally the best play. But we've decided not to do that and I kinda think that's the right call. Essentially we assume Vivax is bad town and not mafia. If that's the case he has a very, very strong power role and we think he's town, so we just make him mayor.

I really can't think of why we would not do one or the other if we're playing logically.

We can always force him to kill whoever we want dead, he's not without responsibility as mayor.

On March 05 2024 23:05 Palmar wrote:
Dumbest scumread ever is that TTS just casually assumed he'd be alive by day 4 or something.

Also even talking about a random voting stage like we're some plebeian third world mafia site is pretty scummy.

But he's done nothing so there's no read. Good policy lynch though.

Going further on into D1, Palmar had some good reads. Sheeped Sandro. Outlook positive on VE (did mention they "looked at little worse" eventually though). But, they haven't all been consistent. He pulled back on Oats being bad a bit. He also thought marv was looking scummy, too. So, more of a mixed bag than my early analysis showed.

Example:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2024 06:56 Palmar wrote:
On March 06 2024 06:53 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2024 06:51 justanothertownie wrote:
On March 06 2024 06:48 Koshi wrote:
On March 06 2024 06:47 justanothertownie wrote:
Uuuh, exciting.

Is it?

I think it is. The post itself is disappointing though. Smells like desperation and OMGUS.

hahaha. Yeah. It's a big nothing burger.

It's a "when I die post"

You can ignore it for now.

I'm going to be so mad if marv is alive by day 4 after this shit.

Like he can lynch me, but he KNOWS he should not be doing that unless he has a really good reason to, which he doesn't.


His lynch list at EOD1 isn't looking too hot:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2024 08:43 Palmar wrote:
This is just random and for post-game purposes.

We actually have like 4 objectively correct lynches (that is correct from a "how to play mafia" perspective).

1) Vivax - All day 1 claimers should be policy lynched without question
2) TTS - Complete inactivity
3) Hapa - replacement and demotivation is something that happens much more often as mafia
4) Trfel - He literally is voting without having any clue why

But for various reasons I'm not really pushing any of those lynches. Guess I'm bad.


Final list post isn't great, too. Oats is now a TR. So maybe it was fake pressure all along? Still SRing TTS though, but that's not exactly gold-star-worthy play at this point IMO.

But does he bus this hard on D2?
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2024 19:03 Palmar wrote:
On March 06 2024 14:21 DarthPunk wrote:
Vig shot on TTS btw.

This is a good call.



Wonder what happened to this:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2024 19:16 Palmar wrote:
I hate pretty much all of your takes CopCake


This didn't age well, feels like a retaliatory SR:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2024 00:31 Palmar wrote:
So like preemptively, I'm trying to come to a conclusion why rayn wouldn't open up my filter and ctrl+f Vivax while shouting in caps at me and I just really can't think of one.

Secondly I already explained to him as confirmed town (last game) how I differ in my approach to people's alignment. I don't tie them together like that.

raynpelikoneet



Nested quote from rayn here about how Palmar's progression on VE was scummy is interesting in retrospect.

Palmar feels like he is just all over the place now, this is what sowing chaos looks like to me, especially given what was said before, especially about sandroba:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2024 01:02 Palmar wrote:
I think it's possible that marv, rayn and sandroba are mafia (varying degrees of possibility) and I don't care who masoned who.


Still, can't deny that he is pushing hard on the Oats wagon. I think scum!Palmar would be content to be more half-hearted about it and sheep a VE vote relatively quietly when it was gaining momentum. Notable that Koshi was one of the driving forces for the VE lynch, but I'm starting to understand that this is just Koshi things (not that I like it though).

--Intermission--

So far, everything from the mid point to the 3/4 mark of Palmar's filter is just a big fat nothingburger. Granted there was some drunkposting in the middle and I really sympathize with that, but it was almost all entirely lazy one-liners. Definitely "coasting" until some semblance of pressure mounted on him:
On March 12 2024 22:09 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2024 21:54 justanothertownie wrote:
But he can defend himself if he is town. He is a big, very important boy.

Yeah no worries.

It's actually kinda fun.

The one thing I need, and I need other people to back me up on this. I am going to ask people why they think I am mafia, and I'm going to do it aggressively. Here's a very important point. Even if I was mafia, my teammates would absolutely want to get in on the "bus". This means that they would have to come up with good reasons to attack me. So even if townies agree that I must be mafia, be vary of who is on the train with you. And of course keep an open mind.

The worst thing that can happen if I get under heavy fire is that town just shuts up and does it quietly.

Essentially, if people want to hold hands and try to lynch me, I'm going to make them work for it, and in the process there is going to be a lot of information generated in the thread.

The last 2 days have been pretty bad in terms of information. Oats played well but was mafia so it can all be discarded, and VE just didn't even try.

That won't be the case if I'm the target.

Instead what ended up happening is he just posted reasons why others were scum, so it felt like just fulfilled his town!Palmar obligations and went back to relative chill hard mode. I don't think that should be too difficult to do as scum, especially since just about everyone has some unfortunate/wrong/bad-looking stuff in their filters to latch onto, read in the most negative way, or misrep. So, I don't think that his activity today gives him all too many townie points because in the end he is just hopping from one wagon to the next, either as scum or as town for scum.


--"Conclusion"--
I think that Palmar is pretty hard to put a finger on. Did he type a lot of things? Yes. Were some of them good-sounding? Assuredly so. Does he have strong convictions, drive, and does he ever put himself into any significant danger? No.

I haven't had the chance to filter JAT recently so I'll probably do that next while out, but I won't make a post like this. If I had to go off of my overall gut feeling throughout the game, I'd say that they were even more wishy-washy than Palmar, but I don't want to discredit JAT before I actually do the work, so take that with a heavy grain of salt.

When done with JAT's filter, I will just insert them into my current list of scumminess (left is most town, right is most scum):

Iamp > Palmar > Koshi > Cake


DP and Vivax are not present because I am still operating in conftown! world for both of them, similar for DMB but obviously much less so to keep it clean and easy.

PS: It seems I fucked up the bold tags somewhere but fuck it, it's legible.


How did Koshi go from your top scum read here?

On March 16 2024 10:38 Jealous wrote:
On March 06 2024 07:35 Koshi wrote:
DP just stay the course on Hapa and Palmar.

If they are mafia or even 1 only, we get a lot of information. Lynching tfrel does not do that.

Palmar town is not horrible. Palmar mafia is great.
Hapa is a good shot. I am proud to be in a town that shoots idiots.

Big WIFOM for me here. Is this scum!Koshi just manufacturing a strong stance on a 4 town pile? Or is this town!Koshi not knowing anyone's alignment and genuinely going off of his own thoughts on the matter?

Really hard to say IMO.

Overall I think D1 Koshi was pretty strong though. Some tragically bad reads but overall *feel* I got was town. Definitely more so than his play during the middle of the game thus far IMO, he kinda fell off and got lazy and more crazy/Koshi, if memory serves.

I'm gonna stop filtering now because it's going OD slow, but I will finish up later, because let's be real, I'll probably be around given how Vivax has been pushing my scum case for the past 28 hours or so.


To tragically bad but feel town here

On March 16 2024 11:34 Jealous wrote:
Okay so this is where I'm at.

Last Day of Safety
DP, Vivax

Wouldn't lynch over the people below
Iamp, JAT

Need to revisit:
MZ, though this applies to some people below as noted

Lynchable
DMB, Koshi (until further filtering)

More lynchable but this game is hard
... and you played well enough at least tbh
Palmar, Rels


Back to lynchable here but in need of further filtering?

And yeah that was post flip but you doubled down on it:
On March 16 2024 12:44 Jealous wrote:
On March 16 2024 12:40 DarthPunk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2024 12:26 Jealous wrote:
On March 16 2024 12:14 Vivax wrote:
On March 16 2024 11:34 Jealous wrote:
Okay so this is where I'm at.

Last Day of Safety
DP, Vivax

Wouldn't lynch over the people below
Iamp, JAT

Need to revisit:
MZ, though this applies to some people below as noted

Lynchable
DMB, Koshi (until further filtering)

More lynchable but this game is hard
... and you played well enough at least tbh
Palmar, Rels


This guy is so mafia but it‘s hilarious tbh.
First he calls Koshi death interesting then adds him to lynchable.

It‘s even worse than Palmar‘s case on dead rayn.
At this point he‘s just flaunting around how dumb this town is for not lynching him

Lmao damn that was indeed bad. You'd think scum would know who they NK'd though?

My thinking at the time was "I didn't finish filtering them, should really do my due diligence" (which in retrospect and in context looks bad on me too lol).

Drunk posting ftw.


It looks VERY bad.

Almost like your reads aren't responsive to events changing.

I stand by everything else I said tbh, Koshi is where he would have been were he still alive. I simply forgot he was dead lmao.


In the post where you call koshi "tragically bad but town" you quote a koshi post from:

On March 06 2024 07:35 Koshi wrote:

That's almost 10 days ago so you must have been in his filter in order to read and quote that. Why does he still need more filtering? Did you forget you called him town last night?
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 06:29 GMT
#9166
TL Forum code is super annoying, like look how many bolds I fucked up in my previous post. I'm trying to figure out where "drunk" Jealous misses that he's scum reading Koshi after the flip yet still manages to nail all his greens, reds, and bolds.

Jealous was literally the second post after the flip:
On March 16 2024 11:04 Jealous wrote:
Interesting.


He clearly acknowledges who died.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 06:33 GMT
#9167
Part of me feels like this is a dumb thing to get hung up on and I also feeling like I'm betraying the drunk poster brotherhood by picking on this type of mistake but something about this is not adding up to me. I've been thrashing around in Jealous' filter for like the last hour or so and I can't wrap my head around the progressions.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 06:34 GMT
#9168
I feel like I'm pointing out shit from one of those old old TL Mafia games that had clues in them from people's profiles.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 07:08 GMT
#9175
On March 16 2024 15:54 Jealous wrote:
And yea, I straight up did forget that he got lynched.

^ NK'd motherfuck

I think with all the work that was put into making that list post look good this is the part that I don't believe.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 07:12 GMT
#9178
I just realized I'm subconsciously trying really really hard not to scumread Jealous right now because I'm a sentimental piece of shit and AtE works on me and I feel bad doing that while he's drinking so I'm gonna sleep on it and come back tomorrow with a clearer head and also give Palmar and JAT a read through and figure out what they were up to while all the lynch shenanigans went down yesterday.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 16:32 GMT
#9244
On March 16 2024 18:25 DarthPunk wrote:
Is anyone around.

I am currently considering the Idea that Jealous dumbtelled with the Koshi stuff.

Because if he was mafia he would know that Koshi was night killed, I am sure it would have been something that would be discussed in the QT.

So it kind of makes no sense for him to fuck up like that as mafia.

Unless we are thinking it is something he did intentionally.


This is the conclusion I was leaning towards last night, that coupled with his previous "joke posts" about voting himself to be confirmed town

On March 15 2024 01:04 Jealous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2024 00:50 iamperfection wrote:
I mean at just a surface level they have been all over the place. Making ridiculous statements but also almost begging to be lynched. Dosnt seem like the most likely scum mindset to me the more I think about it. Yes it's possible but the more and more I think it makes me think CC has a likelihood to be town.

Oh okay. I must be playing the game wrong.

Sky is green. $evntyfive por cento chance-a-mundo that u r scum. Whiz bang waffle.

##Vote: Jealous

^ There's my proof that I'm town.


On March 15 2024 10:57 Jealous wrote:
Drunk posting caveat.

Imagine I just ##vote Jealous right now just to make a statement.


It's just a little on the nose that he's directly referenced some of the stupid plays people have been making and then proceeds to seemingly dumbtell.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 16:38 GMT
#9246
On March 16 2024 18:53 Palmar wrote:
I'm not caught up since the night, so my current view of the game has not shifted at all.

I think JAT did well under pressure, and despite my eternal annoyance with iamp I don't want to lynch him. Throw in my town circle of Vivax and DP and it becomes a 4 person PoE

MZ, Rels, Jealous, dmb

Out of those I have had a reason to townread dmb at some point in the game. And while I hate how Rels "feels" in the game I may have gone overboard scumreading him on that one post yesterday. By "feels" I mean that Rels is never, ever in the thick of things. He's always on the periphery and then wades in with some takes that everyone promptly ignores.

So I am currently looking at the following lynch pool

MZ and Jealous.

Iamp, being annoying as he usually is, complained about me not talking about MZ. That is actually a really good point. To me MZ has been the most invisible player in the game. At this point I've actually done fairly good dives on jat, Rels, Vivax, and smaller dives on dmb, jealous. I'm never reading DPs filter, and I'm not letting NK wifom change my mind that he's untouchable till lylo. Then MZ and Iamp himself are the people I've not really bothered to filter at all, but based on thread stuff I've assigned them their current rankings in my head.

I don't care about finding a "scum team". Today all I want is to murder one of the people who is actually scummy. And to me I think we have at least a 50% if not 100% chance of hitting mafia between those two.

How am I the most invisible player in the game? You have constantly called me scum but you've been waiting for other people to get the wagon started. The invisible comment sounds like you're frustrated other people haven't pushed for me hard yet.

I'm gonna deep dive Palmar's play yesterday in a bit
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 16:41 GMT
#9247
On March 16 2024 19:34 DarthPunk wrote:
Well Palmar if you are pocketing me this game so be it, you slipped straight back into my pocket.

Vote: Jealous

So you agree with me then that Jealous made a deliberate dumbtell?

I'm frustrated nobody bothered to read what I wrote last night.

This is also a lazy reason to townread Palmar and we're past the point where town can be lazy.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 16:47 GMT
#9249
On March 16 2024 19:37 Palmar wrote:
I hate reading MZ so much.

I'm so certain he has to be mafia for the game to make sense. And my feeling throughout the game, and even very often in his posting he sounds like passive mafia. He's never in the thick of things. He even did the same dumbass "I'll be mayor" thing that Oats did.

But he's just such a genuinely likable person that I don't want to call him scum, and it makes it hard. I'm just a short bit into his filter and I need to head out now.

I am going to be far less available than yesterday, so you know, if you wanna take a shot at me, your shot is today boys

This sounds like pure scum frustration right here realizing that despite all the shade he's been throwing me this game, nobody has bitten hard on it and he doesn't actually have a case.

If he ever "finishes" reading my filter I'm gonna be super stoked to see what sort of case he comes up with. He's grasping at straws and he knows it.

It's funny how the best he can manage is "passive mafia" and then put that phrase in this sort of post. Like his post is the epitome of passive mafia right here.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 17:05 GMT
#9257
On March 16 2024 22:54 iamperfection wrote:
Show nested quote +
Mz can you give a full summary of your discord with palmar. How many posts overall were there too.

MZ: Hey Palmar I'm leaning town on you so I masoned you to try and solidify that
MZ: Can you give more opinions on Marv in the thread bc I read him as town when hes scum and scum when hes town
MZ: between you and me do you have any opinions on JAT bc people are reading him as town and I came to a rushed conclusion yesterday
MZ: I agree with this post https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=168#3344
MZ: we're in different time zones, but do you have any thoughts on CC's response to Slam's check
Palmar: Do I have to read that
Palmar: Wanna claim a blue role to me
MZ: Not gonna go full rayn
MZ: any read of koshi and his stuff this cycle
MZ: disregard Koshi, I let his stuff from the morning bleed into Vivax's posts now, still would love a Marv insight
MZ: You're lurking an awful lot this game
Palmar: I voted JAT day 1, of course I have suspicions
Palmar: I consistently called Koshi town
MZ: You are forgettable and recent contributions don't look fantastic
MZ: I get you're not keeping up with the thread but damn
Palmar: Relax I'm town
MZ: I see you voted VE
Palmar: Did you like my case on rayn
Palmar: Yeah for the lulz
MZ: I made a post about the math that I used not working out and I cited you who also posted math
MZ: Koshi can be kinda right here
MZ: Scum only have to target slams reads list to successfully frame, also might be why slam is alive


That's it.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 17:22 GMT
#9267
On March 16 2024 23:15 iamperfection wrote:
MZ can you bring me through your thought process here.

Show nested quote +
On March 09 2024 08:46 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On March 09 2024 08:43 iamperfection wrote:
On March 09 2024 08:36 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On March 09 2024 08:31 iamperfection wrote:
On March 09 2024 08:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On March 09 2024 08:28 iamperfection wrote:
On March 09 2024 07:32 Palmar wrote:
Like I think you've done everything right if you're town Oats, and if you're mafia massive kudos for wool stuff. I am NEVER lynching you here without a red check.

I'll stick around for a little bit while doing other stuff, but I'm just not confident enough in my reads to actually move somewhere else. I think.

he says this and then votes VE ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I mean he also says this just prior:
On March 09 2024 07:27 Palmar wrote:
On March 09 2024 07:25 Oatsmaster wrote:
Hey look Palmar Sandro thought i was town too.
Just like for your records
On March 06 2024 11:00 sandroba wrote:
oats is very townie imo


Yeah I know

I'm like this close to saying fuck math and changing my opinion.

But you did make a case on me, which looks bad for you. Not sure I should blame you for that though.

Like I'm almost tempted to just fucking lynch slam lol

The only solid thing he told me in our chat is that his vote was for the lulz but maybe he just doesn't want to justify changing his mind and going with his gut?

did he really say that voting for the lulz

Yes.

I wasted the whisper so hard.

That said, his decision to park his vote on VE instead of just throwing it on someone random like copcake sits a little better with me, assuming VE is scum, because now the vote count is pretty close and I can't imagine if he was scum with VE he'd risk that.

well if all 3 were scum it wouldn't matter

I actually am pretty set on copcake being scum at the moment, her votes are just horrible for a townie. It begs the question why doesn't she want to be on Oats.

I think of those three Palmar is least likely to be scum.

Then about 30 min later you vote for VE.

I'm guessing you just read my filter and not the thread context, this was during the Oats/VE lynch shenanigans. I believe Copcake had called Oats scum but was deadset on voting for Jealous
On March 09 2024 08:25 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Copcake still voting jealous is super weird to me, she insists on being on wagons of her own. Day 1 she stayed on JSL as well.

On March 09 2024 08:27 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
If she actually cared about not lynching Oats, VE already had to votes on him when she voted jealous. Instead she just yeets her vote out a window.

Given that I was scum on CC very strongly at this point, and also based on Koshi's comment that the framer only had to target Slam's reads, I started to seriously doubt the red check at that point. The vibe I was getting at that point was that CC had TMI that Oats was going to flip town hence her weird reasoning for her throw away vote on Jealous.
On March 09 2024 09:21 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I went to the store and got some groceries and realized pretty much every realistic scum team scenario I was trying to figure out did not contain Oats but definitely included VE.

And yes, my math was also wrong.

I talked myself into the VE wagon over Oats at that point.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 17:23 GMT
#9268
On March 17 2024 02:07 iamperfection wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2024 02:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On March 16 2024 22:54 iamperfection wrote:
Mz can you give a full summary of your discord with palmar. How many posts overall were there too.

MZ: Hey Palmar I'm leaning town on you so I masoned you to try and solidify that
MZ: Can you give more opinions on Marv in the thread bc I read him as town when hes scum and scum when hes town
MZ: between you and me do you have any opinions on JAT bc people are reading him as town and I came to a rushed conclusion yesterday
MZ: I agree with this post https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=168#3344
MZ: we're in different time zones, but do you have any thoughts on CC's response to Slam's check
Palmar: Do I have to read that
Palmar: Wanna claim a blue role to me
MZ: Not gonna go full rayn
MZ: any read of koshi and his stuff this cycle
MZ: disregard Koshi, I let his stuff from the morning bleed into Vivax's posts now, still would love a Marv insight
MZ: You're lurking an awful lot this game
Palmar: I voted JAT day 1, of course I have suspicions
Palmar: I consistently called Koshi town
MZ: You are forgettable and recent contributions don't look fantastic
MZ: I get you're not keeping up with the thread but damn
Palmar: Relax I'm town
MZ: I see you voted VE
Palmar: Did you like my case on rayn
Palmar: Yeah for the lulz
MZ: I made a post about the math that I used not working out and I cited you who also posted math
MZ: Koshi can be kinda right here
MZ: Scum only have to target slams reads list to successfully frame, also might be why slam is alive


That's it.

i TOLD YOU TO SUMMARIZE

It is summarized
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 17:24 GMT
#9271
On March 17 2024 02:19 iamperfection wrote:
i mean from that log mz has to be town right? At the very least they cant be mafia together. Its blatant rule breaking either way.

How did I break the rules?
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 17:26 GMT
#9274
On March 17 2024 02:24 iamperfection wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2024 02:23 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On March 17 2024 02:07 iamperfection wrote:
On March 17 2024 02:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On March 16 2024 22:54 iamperfection wrote:
Mz can you give a full summary of your discord with palmar. How many posts overall were there too.

MZ: Hey Palmar I'm leaning town on you so I masoned you to try and solidify that
MZ: Can you give more opinions on Marv in the thread bc I read him as town when hes scum and scum when hes town
MZ: between you and me do you have any opinions on JAT bc people are reading him as town and I came to a rushed conclusion yesterday
MZ: I agree with this post https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=168#3344
MZ: we're in different time zones, but do you have any thoughts on CC's response to Slam's check
Palmar: Do I have to read that
Palmar: Wanna claim a blue role to me
MZ: Not gonna go full rayn
MZ: any read of koshi and his stuff this cycle
MZ: disregard Koshi, I let his stuff from the morning bleed into Vivax's posts now, still would love a Marv insight
MZ: You're lurking an awful lot this game
Palmar: I voted JAT day 1, of course I have suspicions
Palmar: I consistently called Koshi town
MZ: You are forgettable and recent contributions don't look fantastic
MZ: I get you're not keeping up with the thread but damn
Palmar: Relax I'm town
MZ: I see you voted VE
Palmar: Did you like my case on rayn
Palmar: Yeah for the lulz
MZ: I made a post about the math that I used not working out and I cited you who also posted math
MZ: Koshi can be kinda right here
MZ: Scum only have to target slams reads list to successfully frame, also might be why slam is alive


That's it.

i TOLD YOU TO SUMMARIZE

It is summarized

how is that a summary

I truncated the stuff down combined some stuff for readability, honestly don't see how this is different from what other logs people have posted. I didn't copy paste it.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 17:28 GMT
#9276
On March 17 2024 02:26 iamperfection wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2024 14:27 Grackaroni wrote:
Setup


In addition to the usual roles, I will be adding mason chats into this game. At the start of each day I will randomize 2 players to become the whisperers for the cycle. They will be informed of this via PM. These players may (or may choose not to) PM me the name of one player to obtain a Discord chat with them for the rest of the day/night cycle. You may paraphrase discussions that occur, but you may not copy paste the log into the thread. Once the players reduce to 13 or less there will only be 1 whisperer.




I did not copy paste.

I paraphrased. We just literally did not talk about much of anything.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 17:35 GMT
#9277
On March 17 2024 02:28 iamperfection wrote:
so your saying all of those lines aren't exact quotes ?


Some of them are most are not, there's really not that much going on in that chat. The whole problem with copy pasting with timestamps and usernames and stuff is that it guarantees the authenticity of the log, you have no way of knowing that this log is authentic because it's not copy/pasted from discord. I know you feel that it's authentic because it's pretty much exactly how Palmar and I both characterized it, but Palmar is free to show up and say I misrepresented something I said or something he said and then it's just a he said/he said game.

I don't know why you're so bent out of shape with this, Jealous and DP's log had way more stuff in it, did you miss that one?
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 18:17 GMT
#9290
Yeah
Both Rels and DMB seem to have fallen off hard.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 18:25 GMT
#9296
On March 17 2024 03:17 Jealous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2024 03:04 justanothertownie wrote:
On March 17 2024 03:01 Jealous wrote:
On March 17 2024 02:58 justanothertownie wrote:
On March 17 2024 02:53 Jealous wrote:
On March 17 2024 02:38 justanothertownie wrote:
On March 16 2024 23:26 iamperfection wrote:
On March 16 2024 19:31 Palmar wrote:
On March 16 2024 11:21 iamperfection wrote:
I think Palmar just has to be mafia. I have listed the reasons several times and i just keep wifoming myself out of it. His reactions to the CC flip just adds to it he had no real thoughts or analysis to make as he isn't interested in figuring things out.

This is the kinda shit that keeps you out of my towncircle.

Of course I have no reaction. I "knew" she was town and I was highly annoyed at her. The people who I feel in hindsight swung the lynch onto her (DP/Vivax) are my town circle people so while I don't quite understand why they did it after all the dick move analysis, I don't think this warrants looking into them.

DP shot mafia. He gets to be alive until lylo. That is the earliest I think he should be looked into.
Vivax is a bed we kinda made on day 1, but there are additional reasons to think he may be town. I liked his early posting, and I don't think he does the whole paranoia thing as mafia.

So why are my "reactions to the cc flip" bad? There is nothing to learn. We lynched a townie who everyone thought was town.

The only way it actually becomes interesting if we confirm Jealous is mafia. But that would be a pre-flip association and you know how I feel about even post-flip associations.


I dont really give a shit about your town circle palmar. if you want to call me mafia you need to refute this https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=395#7899 otherwise im not gonna even entertain the discussion.

My problem once again is that i feel like its pulling teeth from you to get attempts to discover mafia. You basically ignore all my larger points.

Lets pretend you are town. I know i am town. I think the corrupt mayor theory isnt right so vivax is town.

On March 09 2024 11:52 Grackaroni wrote:
Day Two Vote Count

Oatsmaster (9): Alakaslam, Jealous, JacobStrangelove, Rels, Meapak_Ziphh, iamperfection, DarthPunk, die_meatbaby, CopCake, Justanothertownie, ToTheStars, Koshi, marvellosity, JacobStrangelove, Alakaslam
VisceraEyes (7): Koshi, Oatsmaster, iamperfection, Vivax, Palmar, Alakaslam, Meapak_Ziphh, iamperfection, CopCake
Palmar (0): Oatsmaster, CopCake, iamperfection, JacobStrangelove, CopCake
Jealous (0): CopCake
Justanothertownie (0): Vivax, Oatsmaster
ToTheStars (0): iamperfection, Oatsmaster
marvellosity (0): Vivax
die_meatbaby (0): Oatsmaster
VisceraEyes (0): iamperfection
CopCake (0): Jealous

Not Voting (1): VisceraEyes

With 9 votes, Oatsmaster is currently set to be lynched!

The deadline is Saturday, Mar 09 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in



Are we suggesting that 4 mafia were on the oats wagon? I dont think that is likely. I really would like the detail summary of that discord in full because i think it just has to be mz and palmar are mafia together the more i think about it.

I do not think there necessarily has to be mafia on VE - if there is then maybe MZ. If the lynch goes through and VE flips town Oats will just be killed the day after and everyone who took part looks absolutely terrible. It would only postpone the result for no real gain.

Hmmm...
On March 08 2024 12:40 Rels wrote:
On March 08 2024 10:56 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On March 07 2024 23:18 marvellosity wrote:
On March 07 2024 22:56 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Everyone who has called into question Slam's check in anyway is instantly less town to me. That starts with copcake but also includes you now Koshi. It's got the vibe of a scum team that left slam alive thinking he wasn't gonna find any of them and are now mad that he's better than they thought.

If Oats flips VT we can revisit this but right now these posts only serve as opening the door for Oats to get out of the lynch.

Also funny your push was onto me Koshi when I'm the same lynch Oats tried to push as the alternative to him.

Do you really think mafia think they can wiggle out of a red check?

I think the opposite to you. I think mafia absolutely rolls with the red check.

BING BING BING I FOUND IT.

Crazy how you set up the premise of scum just rolling with a red check and I come back to the thread to find eveyrone looking for reasons not to lynch a red check. How convenient.

Really disagree with this. Unless you're playing the "chaotic town" card, scum absolutely know there is no way Oats will survive the game if he's scum (or if he's town for that matter). We're not even in LYLO, buying one more day doesn't accomplish anything if it comes at the cost of their credibility


Hmmm...
On March 08 2024 12:46 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On March 08 2024 12:40 Rels wrote:
On March 08 2024 10:56 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On March 07 2024 23:18 marvellosity wrote:
On March 07 2024 22:56 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Everyone who has called into question Slam's check in anyway is instantly less town to me. That starts with copcake but also includes you now Koshi. It's got the vibe of a scum team that left slam alive thinking he wasn't gonna find any of them and are now mad that he's better than they thought.

If Oats flips VT we can revisit this but right now these posts only serve as opening the door for Oats to get out of the lynch.

Also funny your push was onto me Koshi when I'm the same lynch Oats tried to push as the alternative to him.

Do you really think mafia think they can wiggle out of a red check?

I think the opposite to you. I think mafia absolutely rolls with the red check.

BING BING BING I FOUND IT.

Crazy how you set up the premise of scum just rolling with a red check and I come back to the thread to find eveyrone looking for reasons not to lynch a red check. How convenient.

Really disagree with this. Unless you're playing the "chaotic town" card, scum absolutely know there is no way Oats will survive the game if he's scum (or if he's town for that matter). We're not even in LYLO, buying one more day doesn't accomplish anything if it comes at the cost of their credibility

I think that is naive to think that the town will have the discipline to come back to a red check if they pass it over once. A lot can change in a single day cycle.


? What are you trying to say here?

Complete mind meld between you and Rels, but MZ doesn't seem to agree. This is while MZ was still pushing for an Oats lynch, but ended up not being on the Oats wagon. "A lot can change in a single day cycle" is almost predictive in this case, as what changed was that MZ ended up on the ML wagon.

Ah, I see. And you think he would be posting his mafia thoughts this openly? Would they not talk about this in discord?

Reminder that this is him arguing to lynch Oats D2. So this is part of his argument as for why that is the correct play. If anything, this to me reads more like a future "See how sure I was of the Oats thing, guys?" if a counterwagon doesn't take off. It's like laying a foundation.

In this world, the temptation of the counterwagon on VE taking off made MZ abandon his position to buy one more day. I think the argument that "one more day doesn't change" anything argument is inaccurate, because it creates an extra ML before a scum is taken out in this case. Like gaining a tempo in chess. And as MZ says, "A lot can change in a single day."

Let's leave hypothetical land for a bit and explore the following question instead: Does a person's entire logical framework change within a single day with no additional concrete evidence?

This isn't a change in reads like from town to scum or vice versa. This is a complete reversal of their beliefs about how the game works, within 24 hours. On March 7th, not lynching Oats is not an option because it's too great of a risk to take from a gameplay standpoint. On March 8th, not lynching Oats is fine because VE just looks so scummy?

This is including the meta knowledge that VE gets ML'd all the time, apparently (I can't attest to this personally but it's been brought up several times in this thread).

I'll refer you to a couple of things, Koshi pointing out scum would only need to target slam's reads with a framer changed the calculus, as bad as my math is my initial obstinace was based on my assumption the red check was above 90%. Also my scumread CC fucking off and not wanting to either save Oats or get town cred for lynching him, but instead placing a random vote, and the fact that pretty much everyone called Oats town at some point even if they voted him.

I'm annoyed I let Koshi and the mayor influence my thinking that much but sometimes as town you have to make a judgement call and not be afraid to be wrong (and don't worry I fully recognize the irony behind making that judgment call after being mad about people doing the same thing, none of us are immune to ego apparently)
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
March 16 2024 18:31 GMT
#9297
On March 17 2024 03:18 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2024 03:17 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Yeah
Both Rels and DMB seem to have fallen off hard.


Why are you trying to help Jealous?

I'm not, I have all day and tomorrow to come to a decision so I'm just considering every point.

My thoughts on Jealous are all in my filter, I actually think the points I brought up last night on Jealous are pretty damming, you never commented on that. I just need to figure out if it makes him more scummy than Palmar.

Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
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