EPTWinter Warfare Mafia
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sandroba
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So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling. For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. | ||
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The point of my commentary is to share my thoughts, generate discussion and drive it toward people's alignments, which I find very useful to kick start the game. | ||
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On December 10 2023 13:26 Trfel wrote: I guess what I meant moreso was, why did you post that section? Since you seemed to end up with no read whatsoever, I'm just curious what the motivation/mindset/purpose was? It's not "no read", it's a few things that point one way or the other. The point of sharing inconclusive thoughts is that it helps other players make sense of my alignment and also invites others to partake in the discussion. | ||
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On December 11 2023 01:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Idk, i would think Palmar would hide under "no play during weekends" esp since most of the players should know that, rather than post basically anything other than "it's weekend bye!"  The stuff he said is also okay. It's not that i even think Vivax is mafia, probably opposite tbh, but his read on Palmar is based on wrong premises imo, if Palmar and sandroba would be both mafia, that would definitely not be something Palmar does in my opinion.Oh i also think DP and sandroba are not both mafia, now that i remember. I think this is a towny observation from rayn, no way dp would take such a one-sided approach favoring a partner in the exchange between me and trfel. | ||
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Definitely not something to hinge a whole narrative on and derive reads from. Especially when your own post is full of tentative language and demonstrations of uncertainty regarding palmar's posts. | ||
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On December 11 2023 04:59 Holyflare wrote: Also: Of all the posts in the thread I also take umbrage with the fact that you've essentially taken this one as a pseudo way of defending yourself. I also would like you to elaborate on this some more because there are several interpretations of what this can actually mean and it's vague enough that you can use it to imply many things. That's not a defense of me, as I could be mafia and DP town in this scenario. The fact that rayn's brain read that exchange and thought "No way 2 mafia would do that as partners" I think demonstrates a towny trying to solve the game. | ||
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On December 11 2023 04:38 Koshi wrote: I'll add 2 more names DP and Tfrel could consider inviting. rayn and slam. I like all your reads Koshi, wouldn't doubt your filter being 100% at this point. I think I dislike Vivax the most, his reasoning and phrasing seem contrived to me on both his posts on me and DP. | ||
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On December 11 2023 05:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think you should start raising suspicions, or at least having reads, in case you're town, but then again i don't know if i need to tell you this. People suspect you, if you're town, get over it, stop defending and start producing something of substance (because people suspect you as you don't produce anything of substance -- right or wrong) Thanks for looking out for the rest of us, I do believe you are town. Believe it or not I wasn't so much defending myself as I was questioning HF. If it wasn't clear I find vivax to be the most likely mafia so far, with marv following just for being wrong and stirring up suspicion the wrong way and a bit iffy on HF but that might be just omgus on my part. | ||
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On December 11 2023 05:27 Holyflare wrote: I chose the scenario where you didn't view yourself as mafia? Please tell me your updated read on Trfel, it's imperative for this line of thought. What does it matter how I view myself when I'm analyzing rayn's remark about the game from his perspective? I'd say I'm leaning town on Trfle at the moment, his engagement seems genuine to me. | ||
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On December 11 2023 05:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: sandroba are you gonna be here in like 30mins? i WILL have another round of sauna, but after that i would very much like to interact with you head-to-head if you are here. I'm not going to stick around much longer, my youngest just woke up. I'll be back around 10pm ET. Tomorrow I'll be available throughout the day | ||
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Something is off about the way he says "his first terrible post", seems needlessly antagonistic, a bit too assertive about maybe the contents of the post being terrible? Doesn't explain much about why such post was "terrible" or even if terrible means suspicious. The rest of his content just seems a bit of stirring the pot, but not in a way to actually talk about something suspicious, but instead to keep people nit-picking on each other in circles. | ||
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On December 10 2023 21:13 Vivax wrote: Hello. We have Trfel and Slam entering the thread rather casually in my opinion. This approach by Sandro sticks out as overthinking and doesn't really seem like he's attempting to form some kind of real contact with them. I don't like the phrasing in parts either (bolded). 'Posting within what I expected' comes out of the blue as you should be expectation-free if you don't know his alignment. 'Self-demeaning tone' is something I don't spot, where is the part of his filter that suggests that? This is a piece of pseudo-information as it doesn't really help in reaching a conclusion on Slam either. Sandroba, are these posts your legitimate opinion or did you write them mostly with the intent of creating a discussion surrounding Trfels and Slams alignments? I feel like this post sounds very unnatural, and also has some confusion about things that were already clarified in the thread at the point this post was made. The 'Posting within what I expected' part was asked by Trfel and I did clarify what I meant. 'Self-demeaning tone about his performance' is something very obvious if you read the post if you read the post I was talking about which he mentions his chances of finding mafia. The reasoning to me sound extremely contrieved, trying to blend in with thread sentiment while appearing to be putting in an effort. | ||
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Trfel made it sound like DP was leaning town on me because I was leaning mafia on marv, which was definitely not the case since he was commenting on my posts from before that. DP was saying he wasn't saying he was leaning town on me while reading his posts points to the contrary. Probably better to focus both their efforts on vivax, marv, hf (?) | ||
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Agreed good post, but I think this applies much more to marv's posts about me. What do you think DP? | ||
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On December 11 2023 03:04 Trfel wrote: Part of it is Vivax's first post (here), which we discussed briefly. I didn't like how weak his questioning to sandroba feels, Vivax recognized the issues with sandroba's post but didn't seem to want to challenge sandroba over it or actually do anything with this knowledge. The other thing was that Vivax's posts didn't seem to have any order, he pulled quotes from seemingly random points in the thread. I can't follow the thought process that leads him to bring up the things he did, and especially not in that order. This isn't necessarily mafia indicative, it just feels weird and I'm not sure what to make of it yet.I eagerly await your report. Correctly points out that Vivax is not following the thread, missing some key points and explanations and just assembling together some quotes to justify a vote. He then fails to see how this is mafia indicative, but just the fact that he called this out gives him lots of townie points. It is indeed mafia behavior because of how Vivax is trying to blend in with thread sentiment, appearing to be putting in effort, but struggling to justify something he knows is not true. | ||
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On December 11 2023 22:47 Vivax wrote: There's nothing exonerating Sandro in his filter. It's mostly just generic reasons to call me mafia and he can't even find the text pieces to prove what he's saying. I've been far from a blend-in playstyle. This post here also shows a mafia mindset, not arguing against the substance of what I'm saying, which is that his first post he did not read the thread and tried to reach a conclusion about my alignment, but instead he followed thread sentiment and quoted I few things from my post to appear to be contributing. In the post above he dismisses it as generic and quibbles about me not finding text pieces, which is classic mafia sentiment for "you are accusing me for the wrong reasons" | ||
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@palmar not sure why you are including me in your scum teams either | ||
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On December 12 2023 00:01 marvellosity wrote: I have no need to engage with you as at the moment you haven’t given me a single reason to think you’re town Same here, but I'm still trying to engage. Having a hard time attributing why you are being so dismissive and disengaged to anything other than you being mafia. We haven't played together in a long time I would expect nostalgia to motivate you somewhat to want to play with me (at least it does on my end), but I'm seeing some incongruency from my expectations of how you would behave. | ||
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On December 11 2023 16:57 Trfel wrote: I'm asleep. I think Vivax is the best chance at mafia. His play is very underwhelming and uninspired, in contrast to his town play where he is capable of being a very strong player. He also seems to not care about his relatively poor performance/lack of investmemt. Sandroba and Koshi might be worth considering but I think I like lynching Vivax more by a decent margin. Trfel I had been leaning town from the burst of engagement, but this post really set off some alarms for me. Vivax mentioned that he was weary from the bottom feeders on his wagon, and if I was town Vivax I would definitely be all over this post in particular. The wording, tone and reasoning on this post don't seem to match the rest of his filter. Seems like a formal way to justify a vote, looks like it's fabricated and a chore. | ||
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On December 12 2023 00:32 Palmar wrote: This btw is a genuinely very scummy post. Not because of it's context but because of the thought process behind it. Sandroba can easily just say "well Palmar looks town so I go murder train on Vivax", but instead he does "independent research" and comes to the same conclusion to justify his vote. It's forced "case". This is a scummy post if Vivax flips mafia and it's also scummy if Vivax flips town. But the good thing is that it locks in Sandroba's vote on Vivax so I don't care for now. Can only lynch one dude today. The main reason I though you looked town is that you were trying to get traction on vivax, who I thought was likely mafia - not that you were super town and because of that vivax should be mafia - that doesn't make any sense, and I wouldn't trust you without being convinced myself even if I though you were town. Sharing my reasoning there helps me clarify and reassess my thoughts, get feedback from the thread which helps my read and getting reads off others and also helps to convice other players of my desired lynch, all pro town things. The way you are trying to set this up and your reasoning is not making any sense, it feels either like pushing mafia agenda or if you had a pre conceived notion that I must be mafia, which I'm trying to get to the bottom of | ||
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On December 12 2023 00:19 sandroba wrote: Trfel I had been leaning town from the burst of engagement, but this post really set off some alarms for me. Vivax mentioned that he was weary from the bottom feeders on his wagon, and if I was town Vivax I would definitely be all over this post in particular. The wording, tone and reasoning on this post don't seem to match the rest of his filter. Seems like a formal way to justify a vote, looks like it's fabricated and a chore. @marv comment please | ||
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On December 12 2023 00:50 marvellosity wrote: It’s a bit over wordy maybe, but so is most of his filter. Out of curiosity then, how would you have expected him to place a vote? Not sure, it just feels off to me. Now your turn give me something unique | ||
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On December 12 2023 00:45 Palmar wrote: shush the town people are talking. Be a good boy and keep your vote on Vivax. I net you are getting a kick out of this | ||
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On December 12 2023 01:06 Vivax wrote: (This post implies knowledge of Palmars alignment) What is this game? Palmar's playground? Did he run out of board games ? Palmar is getting a kick of just talking down to me, probably a bigger kick if he is mafia steering the game | ||
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On December 12 2023 01:22 Vivax wrote: And what of the two is he in your opinion? It's two different types of kicks you are talking about, you phrased it as just one type. Because it was phrased for mafia Palmar getting me mislynched but you have a townread on him. You're keeping it deliberately ambiguous now because you just gave away that you had the impression of a one-sided kick as if you knew his alignment. If you are mafia, I think palmar is prob town. If you are town, I'm neutral - wouldn't put it past palmar to be doing that as mafia the way he is setting things up, but he just as easily could be town and trying to get his suspicions lynched. Palmar as town would be getting a kick that post regardless of my alignment I believe, moreso if he thinks I'm mafia, as he just enjoys being condescending. As scum, he just seems to like to randomly antagonize me, like the last time we played in assassination mafia | ||
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On December 12 2023 01:56 marvellosity wrote: Also, re: sandro. He asked me to engage, and gave me some bleh nonsense about not liking Trfel’s vote on him, but could not come up with a way he would expect Trfel to vote as a townie. In his filter though, he does quote a post from Trfel and goes to quite some length to explain how townie a post it is. I don’t believe he goes from the first post explaining to why Trfel is likely town, to a complete nothing post shovelling suspicion on Trfel. I would provide the 2 quotes but as usual these days I am not in a laptop so it’s too difficult. But if you’re reading this dear town, please do take a look and see what I mean. I quoted a post I would 100% expect you to agree on and find it suspicious. Nobody else had mentioned that post and I was expecting you to have some commentary, but instead you just dismissed it and asked me something irrelevant like what I think Trfle would post like if he was a towny voting. I dunno, like something I read and don't think sounds forced? I'm not comparing it to an imaginary trfel post, just reading it along with his filter and feeling it's off. Not sure why you would ask me to imagine a townie post instead of reflecting on the actual post itself. | ||
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On December 12 2023 03:06 marvellosity wrote: Are you nuts? You haven’t explained in any way how the post you quoted was different from the rest of Trfel’s filter…?! I don't think I need to explain, I think the post and filter speak from themselves | ||
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Just seems like a low-effort crutch what you are doing to justify your position on me. | ||
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Lean town on slam, palmar (move to town if vivax is scum) Neutral on hf, chezinu, dmb I lean scum on vivax, marv, conflicted on trfel. | ||
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On December 12 2023 07:40 marvellosity wrote: Just want to repeat this. sandro trying to reduce what I’ve said so he can attack that aspect of it in isolation. Anyway, let’s hope the flip goes okay. Other than that, you said all his posts are okay but I feel like he is trying to solve the game. I dismissed this point because it's literaly dumb, as you say this while I'm trying to force you to talk about me and so I can see if I can find a townie mindset behind it. Basically what I could buy into is that you felt the first post was suspicious and then based of that preconceived notion it tainted the rest of the interpretation. But really that doesn't make sense if you didn't like my first post because I was waffling on Slam (of all people) | ||
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I'm going on a clean slate and re-read the thread trying to forget about my assumptions and try to get a more impartial view of things. The first post that I really liked and gave me a strong town read on DP was this one, since it matched my assessment of what was going on perfectly: On December 10 2023 17:14 DarthPunk wrote: Hey guys, just got back from watching my nieces (they are obsessed with Bluey if anyone knows that show) but have been following along the thread while I was away. I liked Slams entry, seemed keen to be playing, I think slam probably could do that as mafia, but I think his alignment will work itself out along the lines of his engagement levels so wouldn't want to lynch him today. As a rule, I tend to associate entry to threads like this with mafia play (setup speculation particularly). Admittedly, it could be a case of a returning player trying to feel his way back into the thread, but the BS detector was going off big time. The last paragraph of this post reflected my viewpoint at that point in the thread, I don't really like the slam stuff. Meh. The level 1 analysis of this is that a player is being aggressive early, not afraid to post and that would be good for Trfel. My initial feelings reading the post was that it felt forced, with a lot of generic statements to try and make Sandroba's post seeem worse than it was. I disagree that at the point of the game in which we are right now, that everything said needs to progress the game in a meaningful way. Sure, I would like that to be the case, but I also don't think that someone being non-committal is alignment indicative, in fact, someone being strongly committed early tends to make me lean mafia more than town, Town are trying to figure shit out at the start and are more curious than committed. This really is what Trfel was doing, going on the counter-offensive trying to conjure up arguments to make my post look at lot worse. If I knew what type of player Trfel is I would immediately consider this an ironclad case, even with so few posts in the thread at that point. But if Trfel is a very emotional player I could my suspicion of him tainting his reason and making him try to look for reasons for me being mafia and accusing him. DP followed this through with this, argued against Slam who was brushing it off as an overreaction by me and Trfel, shortly put his vote on Trfel and was rallying the thread to look at Trfel. Due to this spot on analysis this consolidates DP as town to me, regardless of Trfel's alignment. Marv's commentary at this point is probably what caused my initial suspicion of him: On December 10 2023 19:19 marvellosity wrote: Don’t understand anyone who thinks Trfel is suspicious for calling out a pretty terrible first post from sandro tbh On December 10 2023 19:20 marvellosity wrote: Reads like a newbie tryharding and sandro is not that On December 10 2023 19:56 marvellosity wrote: Why aren’t you just outright omgusing DP here Trfel? I know that’s what I’d be doing in your spot To me it's very hard to believe Marv reads the same DP post as I read and has 0 suspicion of Trfel. On December 10 2023 20:12 marvellosity wrote: You think it’s reasonable he’s calling you out for calling out sandro? On December 10 2023 20:13 marvellosity wrote: If I came In the the thread first and had called out sandro’s post, I would think it was insane DP was calling me on it. Just sayin. What also ticked me off is that he never addresses any of the points of DP or whatever he says is terrible about my post, he is just glossing over it "Trfel calls out Sandro and DP calls out Trfel for calling out Sandro". This sort of simplification doesn't make sense and it's the details of how things happen that are important: I really started to see marv as mafia at this point, and his actions would make more sense if Trfel and DP are town and he is trying to pit them off against each other. He doesn't want to add details of how my post is scummy for XYZ or how what DP is doing is suspicious, he is just the guy on the sidelines saying "Oh, I can't believe you are going to let him get away with THAT" and watching chaos ensue. I was coming to this on a clean slate and trying to get a new perspective, but again I can't see town Marv would do things in this manner. The only things that make sense to me here is a mafia agenda. I'll stop here as I have to do some work, but I'll be continuing my reread and sharing more of my full thought process. | ||
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On December 11 2023 05:06 Holyflare wrote: I don't like his attack on you and I think Palmar perhaps persuaded him off from tunelling you further but he tried to play it off like he came up with that idea himself to appear like he was being reasonable and then said you could be mafia anyway. He also said you weren't inquisitive about finding out information from people, while literally trying to take up all of your time with little questions thus giving you not much time to do that. I don't know what to think of that though because I'm historically bad at reading DP. Not sure I could make a gut read on it but somewhere middle of the pack, possibility of being townie but not outright surprised if mafia. See what he does next given time. Have you made a list post summing up what your current reads are? This exchange feels a bit off to me. The Trfel soft defense of HF, throwing the question to HF about DP and HF's response all sound a bit forced to me. It just looks like they give each other an undue amount of charitability. This feels like mafia on mafia to me. | ||
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We all know for a fact that yesterday lynch was on a townie and the other viable option (me) I know was town too. Mafia had no reason to stick out their necks and do something to sway the lynch. That makes it more likely that mafia is hiding in the likes of Koshi and Chezinu. Chezinu's presence and engagement in particular has been a lot lower than other times I played with him and he was town. Normally he will try to interact with people and make weird accusation posts trying to get his point across. | ||
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The fact that HF was fake claiming should be obvious, or he is omega ultra dumb, which I don't think is within the realm of possibility. I'm interested to read what his explanation is before speculating on it and feeding him any ideas. | ||
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On December 13 2023 12:14 Chezinu wrote: DP blue, Truffle red/blue read more red now. Why blue? | ||
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On December 13 2023 17:30 Koshi wrote: DMB is mafia. 1) She is flying under the radar. 2) I think she voted Vivax because he is a threat to her. And because Vivax posted a good list. 3) Last one to move from Vivax to Sandroba. Even though she was moving with thread sentiment to a more Vivax is not mafia 30 mins prior. 4) Dont think she made 1 good post so far. Very bad of Palmar to make her so townie after that 1 "independent research" Vivax vote. Because really... That isn't that good at all. Anyway. Start putting her in your PoE people. ##Vote Sandroba (Last game I was mafai and I made a case on somebody and voted somebody else) Koshi, what made you read me town in the first place? What made you think I'm mafia now? | ||
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On December 13 2023 22:19 marvellosity wrote: So I've gone back and re-read sandro, specifically looking for what he has said about Trfel. This is the progression. 1. He is "98% sure" that the DP & Trfel fight is TvT. 2. Trfel is trying to figure out the game, and his post casting suspicion on Vivax is "spot on". 3. Trfel he had been "leaning town" on "but this post really set off some alarms for me" - this is the Trfel vote post on Vivax. 4. He says to me "I quoted a post [from Trfel] I would 100% expect you to agree on and find suspicious" - the problem is he couldn't elaborate on how this was - he stated the tone felt different from the rest of the filter - which I don't agree with - which is why I asked how he might imagine a town Trfel might have written the post, which he could not answer. 5. He then submissively backs down on this point saying he could be just bad (this feels out of sandro's character) 6. Now he is "conflicted on Trfel" 7. sandro does a big catch-up post on DP, Trfel, me etc. In it he says he agrees with DP that Trfel was "going on the counter offensive" to make his post look a lot worse, and if he knew what type of player Trfel was, he would find it "an ironclad case [on Trfel]" Basically I don't find any of this natural. While it was happening, he considered DP vs Trfel 98% TvT, but on re-read DP's case on Trfel looks "ironclad"? I can't see this whole thing coming from a town sandro, I just can't This is stupid, why would I do this as mafia? Why not just keep my town read on Trfel at that point and just focus on Vivax? | ||
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On December 13 2023 22:40 marvellosity wrote: Because mafia make mistakes. I've talked a fair bit this game about how I can understand how people are thinking and progressing, that sort of thing. The fact is, I can't understand these thoughts or progression. It's not townie. It's townie because I'm town, you either lack imagination or just mafia. It's not like through my posts you can see all my thought processes. I haven't played this game in years, you can't just think I'd have the same confidence in my reads as I did before. Also, I'd like to think I'm not as arrogant as I used to be. Changing my mind and not keeping my story straight was never mafia m.o., I'd pretty much just have a really hard time posting and do as little as possible. I'd like to think I'm right on Trfel and was right on my initial intuition and got myself convinced he was just bad and overeager as he posted a bunch. I know I felt this way many times before, even when I was good at this game. Whatever you are probably just mafia, I'm tired of force myself to imagine you could be town. Your Palmar interactions/relationship is super similar to what you guys were doing in assassination mafia, not sure if only one of you is mafia or both | ||
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On December 13 2023 22:45 Holyflare wrote: To erode your reads and keep options open. Please answer my questions wherever they are. Why aren't you adding town reads to your list? Why aren't you seeing who had good reasons to vote vivax or not? Why aren't you second guessing that your koshi read erosion is just due to timezones vs throwing it completely out the window when you already have like 5+ other scum reads? Screw my town reads, I don't know how good people are at being scum so I'd just go after who I think the most likely scum is now and worry about the rest later. At this point in the game I know for a fact that no mafia was really forced to make any mistakes due to the lynch yesterday being pretty much set on Vivax for the whole day and the switch attempt was onto a townie. Thus we first need to produce an event that forces some bullshit out so I everyone can get a better grasp on who is town and who is mafia. The most danming of all is Trfel with his fake post on me, fake interaction with you and fake justification for voting Vivax. That's 3 hits of key moments that I believe he felt unconfortable and came up with some BS post. That's my strongest Mafia read, all my other stuff I perceive as being less accurate. | ||
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On December 13 2023 23:06 Holyflare wrote: Not sure I understand why you're tripling down on calling marv mafia when he's going through your filter multiple times, trying to come up with arguments and engage with you and even then still giving the benefit of the doubt for other people to interject and correct him. Is that mafia M.O.? HF is just trying to bury me throwing some shade in every single post I make mafia. "Not sure why you do this", "not sure why you do that" | ||
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On December 12 2023 19:30 Holyflare wrote: Actually think I may have caught him out on this with his follow up. The fact he defaulted to "I could be mafia and DP town" is probably an "oh shit" reaction to it even because that scenario doesn't fit with his point about rayn or what he was saying at all. He says that rayn's point is good thinking because it shows that he's thinking about mafia partner interactions, but removing DP from being mafia in this equation (remember, rayn specifically only mentioned sandro and DP) doesn't make any sense. I didn't default to that, you accused me of defending myself throw my comment of giving rayn townie points about his comment. I said it was not a defense because in the scenario rayn described I could be mafia and dp town, should be obvious I wan't trying to defend myself when pointing that out. You made the post yourself calling it a defense, no way you are confused and think I defaulted to that. But again you are just distorting it to bury me. | ||
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On December 13 2023 23:21 Palmar wrote: So apparently I'm allowed to do this... Anyone who wants the mason channel with me? I do | ||
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On December 13 2023 23:22 Holyflare wrote: Let me spell it out incredibly clearly. I think you're mafia, I think you have floundered trying to come up with town reads because there have been people that are posting good townie thoughts and you can't come up with concrete reasons to actually scum read them so you've just re-hashed the beginning of the game again and squirrelled away not trying to give any good perspective on current events or anything useful. You've boxed yourself out and aren't actually answering any questions because you don't want to give too many things away when you actually flip mafia. Even now I'm asking you relevant questions because you're not doing things you should be if you are a townie and you're just throwing things back in my face in an attempt to throw a tantrum and derail progress because the fact is you can't coherently reply to the accusations or give proper answers because there is no good explanation for what you're doing. You can very very easily give more insight into the end of day shenanigans and see the perspectives of people at the time and give us insight into who looks like mafia trying to afk or which of the people joining you and trying to save vivax were doing so in good faith or bad faith and then drawing conclusions from that but you instead just pick out things that aren't relevant like some trfel interaction with me (and again, you haven't acknowledged or given an insight into my reply to this accusation). You're not doing things a townie would do in your situation. You're complaining, you're calling people that are clearly just trying to solve the game mafia and relying aren't actually trying to divert things in a meaningful way. Who are you trying to lynch right now? God knows. Just whining that marv is mafia and that I'm mafia and asking about some irrelevant vig claim. ##vote sandroba I'm trying to solve the game, your alignment and marv's is in question for me. I made it very clear I want to lynch Trfel. I'm doing what I'm doing and not what you want me to do. You could very easily be doing a ton of other things as well, and so could all the other people in the thread. Again you are not trying to figure out my alignment, you just want to bury me | ||
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On December 13 2023 23:24 marvellosity wrote: It’s a serious point though sand. I have some natural (townie 😉) doubt about my lynch, which I’ve expressed openly. Are you really reading my posts last 24h and thinking they are mafia posts? I know I’m super biased here but I think it’s fairly obvious I am constructively trying to solve and think about the game. I have like zero reason, as mafia, to throw any doubt on your lynch, as the rest of the game I’ve just been all over you. I’m considering it again today because I want to get it right. If you are town we are pretty much in catch-22 regarding reading each other. But I don't care as long as we can agree on Trfel it will work itself out. I doubt that we are both alive down the line if you are town, so I probably won't even have to figure it out. | ||
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On December 10 2023 13:25 Trfel wrote: I guess instead of waiting I'll let the cat out of the bag, I'm impatient. This post seems very wishy-washy, non-committal, and pointless. The first paragraph doesn't really say anything of substance (not that it's wrong per se, just doesn't really contribute anything meaningful to the game). The second paragraph is the same way. To me, he seems to end with exactly no read (and next to no thoughts) on Alakaslam. There's even "I like the poking about smiles, but it's phrased as a question so there is avoidance as well" which seems like aggressive-but-with-a-heavy-grain-of-salt that is easy to say without actually committing to it. "Posting within what I expected" and "not leaning one way or the other based on initial posts" doesn't end up meaning much at all. The other thing I want to note is all of the caveats and grain of salts and backtracking in sandroba's post. Not exactly sure how to phrase what I mean, but see here, in red: He's shying away from saying something, like making a read and then backing off from it. Or giving a reason to doubt what he just said, or placing a limiter on it. For such a small post, it's riddled with it. To me, this comes across as trying to be non-committal and playing the "safe game" while making it look like you are saying things and trying to figure things out. On December 10 2023 21:24 Trfel wrote: After DP pressure he admits on it being fake, but says he did it to try to figure out my alignment: I assume you are talking to me, I am having a bit of trouble understanding what you are actually getting at here though. Yes, I think sandroba is suspicious. No, I wouldn't wager high stakes on it. He's one of the people I'm most interested in (along with Alakaslam and perhaps yourself and an off-chance of Vivax), but I'm not certain yet. I posted the way I did to try and figure out sandroba's alignment (and eventually everyone else's). Just because I'm not very confident yet doesn't mean that I can't figure things out and investigate and that sort of thing. I didn't bring any aggression, that's just me trying to ask questions and figure things out. If there is anything you'd like me to clear up please don't hesitate to ask, I'm just having a bit of trouble understanding this post though, it feels a bit nebulous to me. Second post: On December 11 2023 04:49 Trfel wrote: To be honest I think you are nitpicking a bit. Even if we say you are right and Holyflare isn't, I'm not sure what that demonstrates. It means he messed up in reading the thread maybe, I don't think it makes him mafia. I think that the overall picture of Holyflare's play is much more important. Holyflare, thoughts on DarthPunk? I get that it's night in Australia but he still feels a bit off to me. Compare to his comment on Vivax doing the same thing: On December 11 2023 03:04 Trfel wrote: Part of it is Vivax's first post (here), which we discussed briefly. I didn't like how weak his questioning to sandroba feels, Vivax recognized the issues with sandroba's post but didn't seem to want to challenge sandroba over it or actually do anything with this knowledge. The other thing was that Vivax's posts didn't seem to have any order, he pulled quotes from seemingly random points in the thread. I can't follow the thought process that leads him to bring up the things he did, and especially not in that order. This isn't necessarily mafia indicative, it just feels weird and I'm not sure what to make of it yet.I eagerly await your report. This post is extremelly wish-washy, contrary to all things he deems pro-town: On December 11 2023 06:35 Trfel wrote: I think at this point I'd be okay with lynching Koshi (if he is going to play like this), and potentially okay with lynching DarthPunk. Sandroba's recent set of posts were more interesting to me, I didn't necessarily agree with everything he was saying but it helps me to put together his mindset/approach. Holyflare's point that he's focusing on defending himself from presumed incorrect accusations instead of actually finding mafia or being productive is strong, now that he's actually shared suspicions I look forward to him coming back tomorrow. Vivax I could definitely see being mafia but I don't think I want to lynch him as much as Koshi or DarthPunk at this point. And finally the Vivax vote justification: On December 11 2023 16:57 Trfel wrote: I'm asleep. I think Vivax is the best chance at mafia. His play is very underwhelming and uninspired, in contrast to his town play where he is capable of being a very strong player. He also seems to not care about his relatively poor performance/lack of investmemt. Sandroba and Koshi might be worth considering but I think I like lynching Vivax more by a decent margin. | ||
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The second post I quoted I embeded my commentary: "After DP pressure he admits on it being fake, but says he did it to try to figure out my alignment:" Inside the post. Just note that it's supposed to be outside | ||
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On December 14 2023 01:12 Koshi wrote: Like.... DMB is mafia... Best lynch imo. Somewhat likely, but according to your own logic we should kill either me or trfel or both first? | ||
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On December 11 2023 10:10 die_meatbaby wrote: sorry getting active now. The thing is i don´t like how Koshi is just like 100% sure that Trfel is Town and just almost every post from him is like trying to save him. But also if Koshi is mafia he wouldn´t be that activ. On December 11 2023 11:26 die_meatbaby wrote: Just to make this clear my decision to vote for Vivax is based on my own analysis and not because your ego convinced me to vote who ever you think is scum. And yes your filter looks good but you still not town for me and I will read and analysis every post you will make until you lose a bit of this self believing god player stuff here. This post sounds a bit fake to me, especially the part where it says "yes your filter looks good but..." Don't like this post here either: On December 12 2023 10:57 die_meatbaby wrote: okey i love a chez lynch before he starts to meme up the thread and confuse me or creep me out with his strange post, but why is he scumy for you he was not posting much here. How can we read him? I can not soul read him as i do often in here espescially with players I already played. Feeling like gambling to vote on him and even if he flips red I can not see who would be with him. I am still sure he is not human. He is AI player which Grack is puting in the game for his on satisfaction to see us or def. me struggling to not. But I am open for an Chez lynch just not looking so scumy as V | ||
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The case is that collection of posts look forced and fabricated, they look like mafia trying to do what was expected of them to do as town. | ||
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My point is that throwing "your filter looks good" in there doesn't sound natural to me given the rest of the sentiment of the post. | ||
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The method which you are using I don't think is correct though. Mafia will try to do their best to emulate their town play in every post, focusing on all the posts like that and accumulating town / mafia points won't work imo. I think focusing on a few bad posts and trying to see if they ever make sense from a town perspective is the way to go. | ||
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To me it makes more sense if both Trfel and DMB are mafia due to DMB avoidance on the initial thread discussion, but I can see both being mafia apart from each other as well. | ||
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On December 14 2023 04:27 die_meatbaby wrote: In an earlier post I already told I think one of you sandro or Trfel are mafia either one not both. Still trying to figure out wich one what make more sense. Also I am still not happy about the Townreads Palmar get. Slam is the only 100% Townread I have. Marv is also in a good light. Koshi gets more Townie to me since D2 because he gets more active here and I know him as lazy Mafia As I also already said Chez is a person I can not read but I am def not sure about it and this vote chance makes me really thinking bad of him Rayn looks first time ever not as scummy as he looks usually to me. Not a safe Townread but definitely not my main mafia thought in my head Palmar/Chez/Sandro Palmar/Chez/ Trfel HF/Palmar/Trfl HF/Palmar/Sandro Not my main thought but still possible Trfl/Sandro/Chez Trfl/Sandro/Palmar Not sure I follow the bolded part either, can you elaborate on that part too? | ||
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Marv is like his little cheerleader: Guys! Palmar is really town! Look how towny of Palmar doing all this nothingness! Either MAFIA or BAD. His reason to think I'm mafia is because I'm wrong on Trfel, which I probably am, while he is wrong on everything and propping up thread sentiment that Palmar is town. Koshi: Has a ton of reads I agree with day1. Reads me town for most of the game: Has a super good DMB read which I get behind on. Decides to sheep marv (?). Fuck knows. HF: Seems to be the only one actually pondering other players instead of following this stupid baseless wagon on me. He backed off after I lashed out on him (which I assume he must have read as townie after he digested it for a bit) and seems to be thinking about the game. The chezinu comment irks me, lynching for info instead of lynching almost certain mafia is scummy. If chezinu is mafia adn we build a wagon on him, mafia players will be more likely to make excuses like "Chezinu is just a troll", "his lynch provides no info" etc. Which is better information than lynching a townie that nobody has any qualms lynching. Trfel: If he is mafia he should get an award because he is going against thread sentiment on me, despite knowing when I flip town, town will go on him regardless. Trfel is TOWN. DMB: just mafia probably. All reads are wish-washy and non-commital. Promises explanations and never delivers. Minimal investment. Chezinu: have to say 80% mafia. Palmar is against his lynch. He thinks vigis that might not exist should take care of him. Rayn: had good activity day 1, but died off. Interaction with DP during the night looks a bit fake to me. My reason for town reading him day 1 was probably stupid. Slam: Probably town? If he was mafia I'd expect at least a little bit of distancing from partners, but instead he viewed as town by 100% of players. I think mafia probably spilled him town. Updated game view: Scum team: Palmar, DMB, Chez Possible replacements: Marv, Koshi, rayn Town: HF, Slam, Trfel | ||
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On December 14 2023 23:07 Trfel wrote: So he is questioning his townread of me (which soon becomes a scumread) due to how I voted for Vivax. But the post after, he appears to be townreading Palmar due to Palmar voting for Vivax, since he thinks Vivax is mafia? If he is that certain about Vivax being mafia why does he talk about what town Vivax should do in reference to me being mafia? I get that Palmar was the one with the big "case" on Vivax but it doesn't feel quite right. Some assumptions here are wrong. I thought Vivax was mafia and liked Palmar as town at that point because I was assuming Vivax was mafia. I didn't like your vote on Vivax because I thought your reasoning sounded fabricated, Vivax being mafia or town, it just looked to me like you were justifying jumping on a wagon. I've come to terms that I you just post in a way that seems unnatural to me and I'm probably just flat out wrong. | ||
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On December 14 2023 23:30 Trfel wrote: Your initial townread of Palmar was due to thinking Vivax was mafia, correct? Since Palmar was the main person pushing Vivax, it makes sense that if Vivax is mafia, Palmar is town. I am wondering why you kept thinking Palmar is town after Vivax flipped town? I know you recently flipped to scumread him but there was quite a delay between those events. He could have been just wrong at that point, normally the main proponent of a lynch is town, but at that point was thinking I wouldn't put beyond mafia Palmar doing that. After the mason thing, he is just mafia. | ||
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To anyone who is town: Please let's rally and find a good lynch today. Don't let the mafia steamroll this lynch on me and be in the same spot tomorrow with DMB and Chezinu alive, being convinced by Palmar and his cheerleader they were just wrong and now we must lynch Trfel or w/e. | ||
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On December 14 2023 23:35 marvellosity wrote: All I can say is, if we flip you and I’m wrong and you’re town, I won’t ignore what you’ve said about Palmar. Because I am petrified I am just being his cheerleader and I’m leading town into oblivion. But I just don’t think so. WHY are you being his cheerleader though? You accused me of being submissive while you are doing worse with Palmar. Why would it take my flip for you to reconsider? It should be pretty obvious to anyone that I'm town. The only thing productive I can really do at this point is be obvious town and let other townies with more cred push a good lynch. It's clear I'm not as good at finding mafia as I used to be, why would you look at Palmar after I flip town? | ||
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On December 14 2023 23:42 Palmar wrote: The list on you is me, Koshi, Marv and Holyflare. You say "don't let the mafia steamroll this lynch on me". Are these mafia-steamrollers in the room with us right now? You and marv, if you are an annoying lazy bum who is losing this game for town by yourself, Marv and Koshi | ||
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On December 14 2023 23:52 marvellosity wrote: I have lots of reasons. And they’re in the thread. It’s disingenuous to say otherwise Go through my damn filter and tell me why. Same for you Palmar. | ||
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On December 14 2023 23:54 Holyflare wrote: Did you know that you palmar haters could have the leading wagon now but instead you just whine about it and don't actually campaign properly for the wagons you want? I want to actually kill Chezinu or DMB. If I'm wrong about who of Palmar/Marv is mafia I probably lose the game for town if we miss. | ||
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On December 14 2023 19:43 Palmar wrote: I genuinely think this begrudging acceptance of the Vivax lynch is towny. It's hard for me to think about scum doing this, unless I just assume DMB is completely new and does the most basic of scum trappings. Same with this: Even if you think this is a TMI post, this followup here: Makes it much more believable that there is genuine frustration here at work. Overall I believe dmb when he's complaining about stuff like me being me. I do wish we had more contributions to go on, but to me the option of lynching DMB today, and even tomorrow, is probably not on the table. These posts of reads by DMB which Palmar is quoting as town are the easiest shit to make as scum, since she knows Vivax is town. There is no mafia in danger so DMB has no reason to push mafia agenda at EOD. If she is Mafia she is trying to appear townie before the flip, why would this ever be AI towards town. At best you can argue it's NAI. DMB has plenty of scummy posts where she provides no real reads or the direction she wants to go, always leaving the decision for later and later. Palmar is hyper-focused on some NAI shit of DMB while ignoring all scummy posts she has made. Palmar's last sentence "the option of lynching DMB today, and even tomorrow, is probably not on the table" should really be impossible for town Palmar to make. | ||
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Palmar is pushing mafia agenda, if you think you have a super good chance of hitting mafia lynching a troll you go for it. Mafia will subtly try to push the lynch on someone else and argue it's a random guess. You can get lots of information from that. | ||
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On December 15 2023 00:16 marvellosity wrote: 94 pages of game and our best d2 lynch is Chez? I just don’t buy it. See case in point. | ||
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On December 15 2023 00:15 Palmar wrote: Sandroba, or any readable player, gives far more information. Everybody voting chez would be doing it for the same reason. Not true, I'm actually saying that Chezinu is not doing his town meta, being less fun in the thread, breaking off character with my slight pressure which all make it way more likely he is Mafia. Chezinu is not totally unreadable. He does more when town and less when mafia. He is more serious when mafia, and more engaging when town. | ||
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On December 15 2023 00:18 marvellosity wrote: What’s the ironclad case on Chez then? Case in point, mafia trying to dismiss Chezinu's lynch as a cop out. | ||
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We have to assume we will be able to make better and better decisions on who is mafia with more days. Thus if we resign to killing Chezinu on MYLO we are cutting town short of a full day of posts by all other players. Much more optimal to lynch the random guess which chances will not improve in the passing days early on and have more time to analyze the players whose chances of correctly guessing alignment will improve. All of this to say even if you think Chezinu is a random chance it's optimal to lynch him now. | ||
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On December 15 2023 00:24 marvellosity wrote: the fact this sandro lynch is so fucking difficult is telling me this is the right lynch Who is making it difficult? Who is the mafia defending me? The fact is I've never have fought against my lynch like this as mafia. Did I come back to the game and then turn into a super good liar and high effort mafia player or just a worse town player? | ||
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On December 15 2023 00:27 marvellosity wrote: I actually think Chez is probably mafia and what’s happening here is that mafia are angling to sacrifice Chez and discredit the “town leaders” by flipping him How likely do you think Chez is mafia and how likely do you think I'm mafia? | ||
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Hmmmmmm, okay dude | ||
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On December 15 2023 00:31 marvellosity wrote: All the votes that aren’t on you is who is making it difficult Townies look at this post! This is 100% motivated reasoning. | ||
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On December 15 2023 00:51 Alakaslam wrote: Marv is not likely mafia here. Koshi is. There is a big difference If i allow myself to think Marv is absolutely atrocious I can see your point. | ||
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For the amount of sway he could have in the thread if he wished to, he is taking very little advantage of this opportunity to consolidate a read on me and push town one direction or the other. | ||
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DMB still has not voted and Chez is voting Trfel. It means I'm probably dead if townies amongst Marv, Koshi, Palmar, HF don't move their vote. | ||
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Just to not vote on Chezinu who you believe is mafia. | ||
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He has 0 reasons to scum-read me and plenty of reasons to town-read me. DMB has no way to be on his top town reads. | ||
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On December 15 2023 07:03 Palmar wrote: I'm not sure how to deal with sandroba right now. I'm actually unsure how to deal with the entire game. I don't know who is mafia and it's so much effort to figure it out. I'm still annoyed that sandroba never gave me anything other than Trfel. He didn't talk about rayn hf koshi slam etc at all. I'm also more suspicious of Trfel by the minute but he's probably a weaker one. My list is something like this at the moment dmb marv slam koshi hf trfel chez rayn sandroba The crazy part is, I wouldn't even be surprised if someone told me one of my townreads is mafia. I actually think it's quite likely. I feel a little lost. And the time schedule again is so annoying. I want to believe I would have stopped killing Vivax on day 1 if he had defended himself while I was awake. I could've interrogated him and pushed him and forced him to look town. But everything was disjointed and bad. The chez lynch is an admittance we don't know what we're doing. Sadly maybe that is exactly what we need, stall the game into tomorrow and hope for a better day and maybe a blue miracle or so. Palmar is just mafia here, no way he thinks I'm mafia and just gives up, and remember this - he never explained why I'm even mafia to begin with! | ||
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On December 15 2023 07:20 Palmar wrote: To be fair i was lying when I called you town. Nah, you just slipped out of compassion for my frustration. Why would you lie about this? | ||
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Humor is based on truth | ||
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I'd be down to lynching Rayn first. His day 2 was extremely underwhelming, he avoided commenting on my alignment completely and voted Chez I believe mostly on town sentiment. I'd say the other one is Koshi, he read me town, but he refuses to come in and defend me and try to sway the vote off me. He only swaps to Chez to keep consistent with his "sheep marv" ordeal. | ||
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On December 15 2023 12:10 die_meatbaby wrote: what makes Trfel town. Slam yes marv okey but trfel... I was tunneling Trfel hard, he came in and town read me, argued against people in thread and voted Chez. I think it's pretty much impossible he is mafia. | ||
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D1 Either way Chez would go would be seen as scummy. If he flipped on me I flip town he looks bad, if he doesn't Vivax flips town he looks a little bad? Staying on Vivax is easier as he has already justified that vote. For D2 when Chez came into the thread in the beginning it was really looking like I would be the lynch. Voting Trfel like that throws suspicion on me by association with him since people consider him possible scum. It throws suspicion on Trfel. If I get lynched and flip town Chez looks better. Plenty of reasons for him to do it. | ||
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On December 15 2023 12:27 Alakaslam wrote: Inb4 slam was bussing Slam if you are mafia you are townsiding so hard, your team might just nk you. Anyway I'm ride or die with you until the end. | ||
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So my possible scum team is reduced to rayn, HF, palmar. If we go into uber tinfoil land Slam never made so much sense during a certain period of last day that it read almost as a different person took over the keyboard. But then again if this is the case I'm in his pocket forever he can just take me to mylo and I'll lynch myself | ||
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On December 15 2023 23:14 sandroba wrote: Yep, I am back to liking Koshi. His story from his perspective makes sense. I also think DMB's paranoid posting after the flip looks townie. So my possible scum team is reduced to rayn, HF, palmar. If we go into uber tinfoil land I've never seen Slam make as much sense as he did during a certain period of last day. It read almost as if a different person took over the keyboard. But then again if this is the case I'm in his pocket forever he can just take me to mylo and I'll lynch myself Phrased it like a moron, fixed the slam part, not that it's really relevant | ||
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- trying to bury me while it seemed like I would be a viable lynch - Arguing against the Chezinu lynch even though he thought he was 99% mafia due to "no info" bullshit - Not really trying to get anyone lynched d2 pretty much just following palmar marv koshi Points for being town: - He seems to be trying to put in time to investigate stuff, that Trfel analysis looks genuine to me - He gives off a vibe of self-assured innocence that comes off in his posts. - Flat out calling Chezinu 99% mafia and refusing to vote for him is very balsy for mafia | ||
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Hey Rayn, are you and Trfel buddies or have some history together? This post here from you seems over-aggressive. | ||
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On December 16 2023 05:18 Holyflare wrote: I stand by still thinking you were mafia. I think you only became "findable" after the palmar situation and even then I'm still hesitant about it because I don't like your directioning/positioning with what you're saying currently or what you were saying just after the chez stuff. In my mind you should be tripling down on palmar and trfel but you're doing some weird thing where you're keeping me at arm's reach still and not really comitting to trying to find me or investigating any of my stances or mindset. I didn't argue against the chez lynch to any meaningful extent other than one post saying I think it was shit and I will triple down and still say I think it was a shit choice even if I knew he was very likely to be mafia. I don't advocate for the stance of always getting mafia being good, I think even a lynch on a townie that people had taken stances on would have just been as good, perhaps better. Although he was the rber so more fortuitous for us in the long run. I believe information and forcing people to do things that is uncharacteristic for them or puts them in positions they don't want to be in is a much better situation. I'm not that invested in this game to care what happens if the direction is fine with what I'm thinking at the time. If the direction goes wayward I'll interject with some of my own work (see the trfel stuff when I thought you were looking a bit better) but if I don't have to be in the game I'll try not to be. Look everyone I think is mafia has done some townie shit at some point. Palmar may very well be mafia, and the more other people like you rayn and koshi post the more I think he is due to POE. He has done some shady shit, I don't think he tried to figure out my alignment at all in the QT. Let me do a recap: I was asking him to take a stance on a player I suspect (Trfel) to see if I can get a read from his reasoning. He did not engage, just stated Trfel is town/ I also mentioned Chez to him which I said was giving me mafia tells, to which he responded that he doesn't read trolls. He then asked me to claim blue, to which I asked why he wants to know, then he started to say things like he was mafia. A bit later he said just kidding okay, not really claiming mafia, which I found dumb and suspicious. He wanted to talk about things like pretend I'm mafia, who do we kill, etc, just a lot of trolling. He never asked me for a read or an explanation of a read. After skipping some troll topics he proposed, we started talking about the DP NK. Why does DP get NK'ed. Assuming everyone is town - removing slam, chez, trfel, dmb which prob are never killed n1 - rayn hf koshi didn't do enough, I was widely suspected. That leaves him marv, dp - which means dp is the most dangerous out of the 3 and probably him and marv are just being wrong and stupid if town. He says mafia is prob afraid to shoot him he is protected. I ask him why he was reading me scum to begin with. No answer. I remind him on the slam comment he pointed out that I noticed and dismissed as null. But then pressed him on that he made a serious post later admitting he also had no real read on Slam. So why did he think I'm scum. He reverts to trolling saying that slam bit is 100% reason to base a read on. A bit more conversation going nowhere. Says he has to go, thinks I'm pretty townie in there and we talk more later, mybe about dmb and rayn. I ask him to comment on my collection of scummy posts by Trfel in the thread, he goes back to mafia claiming, saying he has an agenda. Next day when I do catch him online he reverted back to asking me to claim blue. At this point I see what he posts in thread and just am done with entertaining the thought he might be town, say he is just mafia - ask if marv is his partner. Later on after I see trfel slam and marv vote Chezinu against my wagon, I share with him my new reads, ask him to explain his DMB town read, but he is not there. To his credit he does give me an explanation about how if she was mafia why would she not buddy up to him, instead of being pissed off, after all he was lynching vivax, why she is pissed off that we were lynching vivax. Seems flimsy to me, but after that DMB starts posting some paranoid things after the flip and I share with him I've come around to the dmb town read. But he is never there again. He never asks me anything anymore. At this point he should be like 95% sure I'm town or if he was just super stubborn at the very least think it's a strong possibility. He does not engage anymore, doesn't ask me shit. Is never online when I am even when he is posting in the thread. | ||
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On December 16 2023 05:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: not more than with other people i guess? I am asking if he's stupid because "if sandroba is mafia and thinks he's gonna get lynched, why would sandroba talk about anything other than Trfel (which was the only thing he basically talked about)". I am sure you can understand the question... I thought it was randomly over the top, were you annoyed with Trfel at this point? | ||
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On December 16 2023 06:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: sandroba do you know at which point i voted for chezinu? please look at the votes very carefully. From memory, you voted before marv. But tbh it didn't feel like you had an impact in trying to actually get Chez lynched. | ||
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On December 16 2023 06:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Thread sentiment was definitely not towards Chezinu lynch. Rayn is not lying here, major turning point in lynching Chezinu was after I begged marv to move his vote and he did. My point here is that Rayn did not help thread sentiment go against Chezinu, which detracts a bit from the fact that he did contribute to the lynch. | ||
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On December 16 2023 06:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: you realize i thought you are mafia as well? Yes, I'm not saying you are auto mafia for doing it - just saying the way you did it does not make you auto town, even if there is a plausible narrative here | ||
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On December 16 2023 07:10 Holyflare wrote: Am I misremembering something? I don't think Rayn's vote was before the marv stuff was it? Regardless I don't think sandro gets lynched there either way before that still. You can believe it or not it's my opinion. You are. At the point Rayn voted I still thought I would likely be the lynch. Only after when marv switched I thought there was hope. | ||
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On December 16 2023 07:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: so why are you saying i am mafia then? The reasons I thought you were mafia was due to not commenting on anything relevant D2, coupled with the throw away vote on Chezinu. But I've come around since then based on recent posting tbh. Like after the flip I was like 90% on you, now I'm like 25% | ||
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On December 16 2023 07:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why is it a throw away vote? Also i don't really see why i have to comment on all the shit that's being going on, when it was basically same stuff D1, just different conclusions (on Trfel -- like people decided Trfel is now scummy like in spot of Vivax, nothing else changed pretty much)? I explained that already from my perspective, you put the vote on Chez and did not try to push him. | ||
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On December 16 2023 07:25 Holyflare wrote: You are going by pure vote analysis and I think that's wrong. You were correct I misremembered the timings though. I just reread like page 92 (or wherever palmar talks about what you talked about in your chat) to just when rayn voted and it's extremely obvious chez is going to die and not you imo. You were on fire smashing marv and palmar and none of them engaged on revealing more elaborated points on you. You trfel slam and then even koshi said chez was a good lynch. Koshi was warming up to it. Rayn's entry is really fucking weird still imo and very jarring given what's going on because he just interjects himself right at the part where it becomes an inevitability to me. His explanation of it being a reaction test kind of weakly adds up though so it is what it is. Felt really disgusting at the time though. Palmar and marv look really bad in these interactions, although I get more of a feeling that marv was just baited by a mafia palmar than maliciousness. I'm not going by pure vote analysis at all. Didn't feel like that at all since nobody was saying that in the thread. Maybe for you reading the thread it felt like that, but people were not voicing that opinion at that point. | ||
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On December 16 2023 10:41 die_meatbaby wrote: You want to ask you fucking shit? okey I will!! How the fuck did you end up with me and Palmar together as scum?? Call me scum I don´t mind (as much as now), but with fucking palmar???? Why?? because i was the first one who was suspicious about him? or because I didn´t vote on him? What should I do on D1 5 Votes V 5 Votes Sandro 1 useless vote on Palmar for my ego? D2 10 votes on Chez 1 useless on Palmar because nobody saw what i was seeing at him?? Your commentary doesn't make sense with the post you quoted, maybe you misinterpreted it? I don't think I speculated a team of you + palmar, I even said I read you townie after the lynch. Why do you find it so enraging and outrageous, I think mostly HF at this point, is speculating a team of you + palmar? Not saying I'm on board with that view, but it would make sense to consider it since you have been so over the top when addressing him in particular. | ||
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Reading Palmar's filter I came across this post which had caught my attention previously. I talked about this post with marv, the " And yes your filter looks good but" part which I thought was out of character for someone who is pissed off at Palmar. Palmar filter at that point was 1 page with some trolling commentary. @DMB can you explain why you thought Palmar's filter looked good at this point in the game? | ||
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The investment is minimal, only shows up to vote Chezinu at the end when the lynch is set. Promises more activity and falls short. I was mostly going to talk about Palmar, but ended up even more sure DMB is mafia. Palmar has a few damning things: - Behavior in QT. Doesn't try to get any alignment-indicative reads from me. Never tells anyone why he thinks I'm mafia, never updates his read. Uses it as a crutch to justify not trying to figure out my alignment in QT. - D2 influence and activity - doesn't do shit until people start to go to Chez, and jumps on it when it looks inevitable. Claims that he is busy in the QT but activity there is also minimal - When talking about Chez, clumps him together with Slam as "the trolls", and is very adamant about not wanting to deal with the trolls. Dismisses my claim about scum reading Chez without even wanting to hear it. - DMB read is retarded - View of the game today is abysmal | ||
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Consider the wifom case: What combo of players would ever benefit from killing Koshi instead of you if Palmar is town? | ||
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The only way I can ever understand Palmar's behavior is someone trying his best to emulate his town behavior while pushing a mafia agenda, but falling short due to how hard and laborious it is. | ||
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On December 17 2023 04:29 Holyflare wrote: but I still think it's DMB with him Same here | ||
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On December 17 2023 09:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you want my town list and quick reasons for it, it is: marv -- sandroba thing D2, and being on sandroba D1 Trfel -- Chezinu being on his ass all game, not 100% certain here because i know another game where Chezinu bussed exactly Trfel all game, but still very unlikely DMB -- not wanting to lynch Vivax D1, they are partners, Vivax would get her ass lynched if not dead, she contributed towards NOT getting Vivax lynched Slam -- lynched Chezinu D2, until he didn't want to, but i don't think that matter that much This point on DMB I believe is NAI. If DMB is mafia, Vivax knows she is online EOD and she likely expects that Vivax would call her out if she doesn't post anything, at that point thread sentiment is already that Vivax looks townie. Not sure what mafia DMB can do in that situation besides what she did without completely outing herself to Vivax. Vivax's numer 1 read was that I was scum, DMB does not really ever pursue that read, she waits for EOD2 to take a real stance and vote. If DMB is townie I would expect her to be all over my ass since not only I'm her town partner main read, but also the counter wagon to him D1. But instead, she behaves like mafia - pops in with an excuse, tells she will do stuff later and never really does it. | ||
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Won't ever lynch him or marv | ||
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On December 17 2023 22:16 Palmar wrote: If you believe your Palmar/dmb thesis, you can’t really argue the point that I’ve objectively far more than her. Throw in that if you believe it a bunch of people who you think are town (by elimination) think I’m town and dmb may be scum (marv trfel). You should probably consider where the most likely mafia flip is in your worldview Palmar, how is marv ever scum, unless you are saying he is scum with me? He had all the excuse in the world to fuck off and leave his vote on me, why would he ever vote chezinu in that spot | ||
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If Palmar is ever town I can see it being dmb and ... Slam? Not used to playing with godlike mafia so can't wrap my head around HF or even rayn tbh | ||
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I don't really buy Palmar's DMB read, marv's read or even my read. He is just leaving too many doors open and if we are looking at actions when mafia is involved, Palmar is at least as bad as HF if not more. HF at least said Chez was mafia but refused to vote him (hard to believe he does it as mafia), while Palmar pretty much avoided talking about it completely and clumped him together with Slam (much more likely mafia does this). Now I have some time, I'll read a couple HF past games for comparison. | ||
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Why not? | ||
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On December 18 2023 02:06 Palmar wrote: Because the game is (due to 12 and not 13 people) already mafia favored. With no blues mafia wins in third mislynch. If mafia has extra kp AND roleblocker town would be swimming in blue roles and we would already have seen claims. It’s like 99% that there is one more blue in the game, probably an investigation role because we already have seen one survival role and we haven’t seen a vig shot. This is all completely pointless of course and doesn’t help us today Agree it's a long shot, but could explain if the town has more protective roles instead of investigative. | ||
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If anybody has a newer game of HF being scum to share I'll take a look, that one is the last one on the database and is from 2018 | ||
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HF is godlike scum, no matter how townie you think he behaves he can still be mafia Palmar is trash-tier town, no matter how mafia siding he plays, how little effort he makes into making good calls, he is still town. | ||
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On May 27 2018 08:07 Holyflare wrote: wait why was jealous vt? On May 27 2018 08:07 Holyflare wrote: ??????? On May 27 2018 08:10 Holyflare wrote: that jealous flipped vt but mafia also have vts Jealous here was his mafia teamate | ||
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On December 18 2023 02:23 Holyflare wrote: none of it matters, it's all in my profile my old ones here but I'm a different player now (maybe the mountaintop one idk) https://www.mafiauniverse.com/database/view/players/profile/?id=7356&filter_type[]=mechanic&filter_value[]=normal if you want more recent MU games. Either way, I don't have that much time so your mileage may vary comparing. The link is broken, do you have anything on TL that's 2020+? | ||
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On December 18 2023 02:59 Palmar wrote: Sandroba and HF are another story. Even if they’re town I probably pissed Sandroba off enough by trolling him in the mason QT so he’s tunneled in. HF thinks highly enough of himself to ignore marv. But it’s still really annoying that 3 strong players who know marv and I read each other well enough to pretty much make playing mafia against each other a complete pain in the ass, just ignore that knowledge. Dmb has an excuse, a classic pebkac. You didn't super piss me off, just somewhat. I just don't think you as town would try so little in there to actually talk about relevant stuff and get a read. | ||
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On December 18 2023 03:12 marvellosity wrote: No, he was trolling you because he was sure you were mafia. You are just taking that at face value because you thought I was mafia. Palmar never explained why he thought so, even in the QT. | ||
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On December 18 2023 03:22 Palmar wrote: Wait why would I explain to you why I think you’re mafia in private. That’s like the most pointless thing ever. You didn't do it in the thread either. Plus, even if you do thought so, you didn't know so, so I expect as town you use that opportunity to try to work with me and try to get a better grasp on my alignment. To me it felt like you were trying to pretend you thought I was mafia and were putting on an act, not the kind of self doubt and fear of being wrong we usually see on a townie. That comes off even on the beginning of the convo when you were like. "I fell great" "Things are great, you are being lynched" Doesn't make sense you would talk to me in that sense unless you were putting on a show | ||
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On December 18 2023 03:23 Palmar wrote: I generally don’t try to convince mafia they’re mafia. I mean it would be hilarious if I pulled it off… Maybe I’ll try in a future game lol Again with this charade, unless you are mafia you don't know who the mafia is so you don't convince them of anything, you just talk to people to get a better shot of figuring them out | ||
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- Marv + one is mafia - refuse to contemplate this world - even with this the koshi kill is retarded since koshi was TR marv 100%. Prob I wouldn't get killed in this world for the same reason. Why not kill trfle or slam if this is the case? - Dmb + (?slam) would make sense, since Koshi was dead set on palmar/dmb and had an initial suspicion on DMB which he would probably pursue today. Teams of Rayn/HF where marv and palmar are town I don't see killing Rayn instead of marv, especially with a flipped doctor | ||
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On December 18 2023 03:59 Palmar wrote: Again. Your entire read is based on me being a dick. Maybe take your own advice and go read my other stuff in the game. Not at all, it's based on you not doing what I think town you would do | ||
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On December 18 2023 03:58 Trfel wrote: I understand what sandroba is saying about the Koshi kill and how that implicates marvellosity and Palmar. However, that just isn't how I am reading the game. I would very much like to lynch die_meatbaby but if that isn't possible I would lynch Holyflare over Palmar. I can lynch DMB. I won't lynch HF | ||
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On December 18 2023 03:59 Trfel wrote: And yes, I take the risk of hard scumsiding if it's marvellosity and Palmar together. But so be it, I don't know what else to do. Marv and palmar are not together. Marv would have not switch off me to chezinu yesterday if this was the case | ||
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On December 15 2023 09:45 Palmar wrote: I still think sandroba is scum. Even if I was mostly trolling him in the QT, I feel like he had a narrative that he wanted to push, an ideal target to land upon and was avoiding trying to give too much other stuff away. Also, while this is not necessarily a strong scum-tell, it always felt like he was doing the "right thing" in pushing for a lynch he likes. My interactions with him felt like he wasn't annoyed and incredulous enough at being accused of being mafia. He almost "accepted" being called mafia and tried to push for a different lynch. Now this isn't a scummy thing in itself, a good townie will push for alternative lynches, but the problem is I feel like townies tend to almost always get angry about being called scum when they aren't. It's largely an emotional read on sandro. On December 15 2023 09:46 Palmar wrote: Like if people were genuinely calling me mafia here and trying to vote for me, I'm yelling from the rooftops that they're stupid and bad. I was pretty angry in thread, not sure how it didn't come across to you. D2 you had very little to no influence in the game and today you are not being angry as you claim you would be. | ||
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On December 18 2023 04:12 die_meatbaby wrote: rather lynch me than HF. Better do lose a normal Town then losing a blue one! I will die for Town and i will not care but i will not be with a lynch our hope for a vigi or something else what could help. Are you pretending to believe HF claim N1? Maybe this is an attempt at scum association? | ||
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On December 18 2023 04:18 die_meatbaby wrote: yeah i am believing that shit and I don´t know why mafia is not killing him in the night. Thats why this random nightkills just piss me off Also he playes strange but i really hope that i am seeing the right thing here At the risk of being stupid and believing a scum player pretending to be confused: it's very unlikely an actual vigi feels the need to claim during the night when there can be a mafia rb in the setup and block his shot. What happens is they claim after shooting, or even don't claim at all unless they need to push something. Still interested in hearing what HF was hoping to accomplish there, as I think it's a stupid play as either alignment. | ||
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Palmar attacks Trfel for a very good post on Chezinu. Everything Trfel is saying here is true. | ||
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On December 18 2023 04:36 Palmar wrote: Sandro you owe me an answer to two questions before you go. Reading your filter currently, didn't get to the Rayn exchange yet. Was there anything else you asked? | ||
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On December 18 2023 04:53 Palmar wrote: Yes. You summarized your read on me as me not doing what you’d expect me to as town, which I find amusing because that’s pretty much exactly the same read as marv has in me but with completely opposite conclusion. Do you think your expectations of me are more reliable than marv’s? No, I don't. But marv could be having an off game. I'm taking into account, just struggling to find a coherent alternative that I can buy | ||
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Palmar the only way I believe is ever town is if he is an investigative role, which is why I backed off today. At this point I'd rather he gets killed in the night, so I don't see any downside saying this. His fixation on me claiming blue in the QT could make sense I guess if he is trying to catch me since he knows he is blue and thinks he must be the only one due to balance. I can see that. Also, the way he answered my mafia vigi speculation with "Mafia doesn't have extra KP" seemed TMI in a way that if he knows he is a blue role and due to balance town has no other protective roles and mafia must have no KP. That's pretty much the only way I can believe Palmar is town. Need to look at rayn now, pretty stupid that he voted HF over Palmar or DMB. His DMB read is super bad, kinda like a copy of Palmar's read. Even if DMB is town the reason for town read is awful, hard to swallow those reads | ||
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On December 18 2023 12:18 Trfel wrote: Sad  Trfel, you ruined your amazing D2 dude, sad indeed | ||
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Guess what, she can be mafia with you - you are town-reading and defending her for very stupid reasons. She CAN be mafia with Palmar and playing this pretend game. She is just mafia anyway, she is avoiding taking stances, pursuing her target, just stuck on some narrative and dropping in now and then, pretending to believe blue claims during the night. Anyway, I'm only ever lynching between Palmar, dmb, rayn. I'm happy to lose to any of the other players if they are scum. | ||
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On December 18 2023 12:01 Grackaroni wrote: Day Three Vote Count Holyflare (4): marvellosity, Palmar, Palmar (2): die_meatbaby (2): With 4 votes, Holyflare has been lynched! There is at least one townie in here, but he is probably confused about his role pm. | ||
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On December 11 2023 11:16 die_meatbaby wrote: Okey what kind of wagon are you trying to build here. Like i really really try to see it but now you making my opinion on you even worse #vote vivax On December 11 2023 11:26 die_meatbaby wrote: Just to make this clear my decision to vote for Vivax is based on my own analysis and not because your ego convinced me to vote who ever you think is scum. And yes your filter looks good but you still not town for me and I will read and analysis every post you will make until you lose a bit of this self believing god player stuff here. I don't think this vote post makes any sense, what's the analysis here? Before that she was saying Vivax might be blue. After this, she fucks off for 23 hours and only comes back very close to deadline. Vivax started spilling his reads, here is the post DMB makes, looks like some people might be considering Chezinu for a swap: On December 12 2023 10:57 die_meatbaby wrote: okey i love a chez lynch before he starts to meme up the thread and confuse me or creep me out with his strange post, but why is he scumy for you he was not posting much here. How can we read him? I can not soul read him as i do often in here espescially with players I already played. Feeling like gambling to vote on him and even if he flips red I can not see who would be with him. I am still sure he is not human. He is AI player which Grack is puting in the game for his on satisfaction to see us or def. me struggling to not. But I am open for an Chez lynch just not looking so scumy as V Some hesitancy to vote Chez, claims V is still more scummy. To her credit, she straight comes out and says this just after DP asks for a count of who is there during eod: On December 12 2023 11:39 die_meatbaby wrote: Fuck i don´t have a good feeling on lynch V right now. This looks so Townie just trying to not get killed. Fells like impulsive posts from emotions to keep playing. At that point I don't think it was clear that the counter wagon would be on me, so if she was mafia there was a risk Chezinu might be it. But she is the last one to move her vote, 15 minutes elapsed from the post she says V looks so townie to actually voting for someone else. Vivax knew it before we all did: On December 12 2023 11:53 Vivax wrote: Tinfoil world is Palmar/DMB/X Tbh I'm coming off of this less sure DMB is mafia from this D1 shit. I can see her feeling pressured to town read Vivax in that spot if they live together and Vivax knows she is online. I'll keep going | ||
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On December 18 2023 14:33 Alakaslam wrote: I have no voice, and I must scream. Why have YOU not been lynched? SAME REASON DO NOT LYNCH DMB I don't get it slam | ||
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On December 18 2023 14:38 Alakaslam wrote: Ok Maybe. Maybe I am too lazy. But you can't just say "sheep us" and expect me to do it. Use reasons and persuasion, not orders or pleas. | ||
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The response to the quote above is: My post sentiment was more to stop sheeping aforementioned red players than requesting you to blind sheep. | ||
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On December 18 2023 20:41 marvellosity wrote: Just gonna sheep sand tomorrow. Don’t have anything else to comment atm. Not sure I can bear to read the stuff that happened since before bed. Marv help me out here! As soon as I put you as absolutely confirmed town status you just stopped helping. This game I had to fight you d1 and 2 and now that we are supposed to be on the same side you are just rolling over. You have to redeem yourself and help us get a win. Reset your preconceived notions about Palmar and re-read the game knowing that Vivax, HF and myself are all town. If you still think Palmar is town, this game doesn't make any sense. Help me make sense of it. | ||
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On December 18 2023 22:47 die_meatbaby wrote: I already said lets fucking vote this ego busted dickhead and the people here voting still on HF Rayn isn't here the hole day votes on HF instead of Palmar and Trfel waiting to see what rayn is going to do and votes then also on HF. Why not TRFEL and Rayn or Trfel and you or Trfel and Palmar. Why was he waiting? He is sad about HF and votes on him. What did he expect? Why didn't the people vote on Palmar here ot least on me as I said lynch rather me then HF. Yes I was also wrong but I knew he was at least not scum. Hell yes DMB, let's kill palmar together. Trfel from my perspective after d2 is very hard to believe is ever scum. Also, even beyond that many of his posts are just super townie, especially as the game progresses. Rayn makes more sense to me | ||
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Also, if palmar is town scum should be very convinced he is the actual investigative role. He has several posts about blue roles, is hyper fixed on blues in the QT, posted a TMI perspective about the mafia vigi speculation. So he has to post his results since he will likely die in the night? I don't think town would lynch him tomorrow if there is no counter claim. If palmar is town and blue and is left alive, the only possible route for the scum team is to counter claim him I think, which I don't think is a winning proposition. | ||
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On December 18 2023 23:06 die_meatbaby wrote: I will reread the hole game something is goeing extremly wrong here. We voting Town after Town.. nightkills random as fuck especially the Koshi kill pisses me off and then this yesterday.. The fuck is wrong in this game?! Yes i am still suspicious as hell of Palmar, but of you defently as well!! Don´t try do make a town looking conversation with me because right now I am suspicious about everybody here! See you again after reread the hole game It doesn't help to be suspicious of everybody. At this point you have to narrow it down otherwise you will end up easily siding with scum if you are town. | ||
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I'm ready to exclude her from my lynch path. Basically, now it has to be Rayn and Palmar. Rayn has some redeeming features, but overall he is flying under the radar. I read a post by DMB where she said she always thinks Rayn is scum, then in another post further along she says she doesn't think Rayn is scummy in this game at all. This is a huge tell that Rayn is actually scum in this game. If his normal playstyle as town make you find him scummy, but now he doesn't seem as suspicious this is a behavior modification that is totally mafia-oriented. Rayn only shows up when he is being talked about to try to diffuse suspicion off of him. He doesn't pursue his scum reads, and is very tame not to antagonize players in the thread too much, all of which are mafia-favored behaviors. The only player I remember rayn being a bit abrasive agaisnt was Trfel with his "are you stupid" comment which felt out of character for rayn at that point seen his behavior in the thread, but if I go back in memory I do remember rayn being an abrasive townie. | ||
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On December 18 2023 23:37 marvellosity wrote: Sorry I was still talking about that DMB post On December 18 2023 23:37 marvellosity wrote: The lack of paragraphing makes it more believable The cap fits | ||
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On December 18 2023 23:43 marvellosity wrote: Read it, went and read rayn’s filter since the conversation with Palmar, and I’m still struggling with it tbh with you. I’m well aware there’s 2 mafia floating about though, so they have to be somewhere. First we have to just accept that whoever is the mafia here they are doing a good job. Given that assumption, we go from there | ||
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On December 18 2023 23:44 marvellosity wrote: Sand, can you remind me why you like Trfel for town so much now please? 1 - he saved me d2 when thread sentiment was against me. He called out Chez behavior as mafia, pointed out the game they played as scum together. I went ahead and looked at the game and everything checked out. Also Trfel had very few posts as mafia in that game, wasn't engaged at all. The analysis posts he is making make a lot of sense to me, it shows he is thinking about the game. His palmar town read, if he is mafia it must be with palmar? Not sure how voting HF instead of Palmar and sticking with his town read helps him here. HF was on a path of Palmar > DMB > rayn while Palmar's path includes him? Can't wrap my head around why he would not just go along and lynch me d2, he had every excuse as mafia to do so. He had the story set up from his perspective for finding me suspicious. | ||
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On December 18 2023 23:51 marvellosity wrote: DMB, as you like a bit of meta and reading old games. Can you find a single example where sandro has a decent size filter and fights for his life when he is about to be lynched as mafia? I think the most telling thing is that I would never try to take myself to end game as mafia while lynching the role blocker Chezinu on my team. Chezinu could single-handedly win a game for mafia | ||
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On December 18 2023 23:58 marvellosity wrote: Given the runaway lynch on Chez, can you not imagine the world where mafia (either Trfel alone or a group decision) make the choice to bus Chez and look good from it? What I’m saying is, if Trfel stuck on you and didn’t vote Chez and everyone else voted the same, he would look like 100% mafia after d2 lynch When Trfel started advocating the Chez lynch and called me town there was no runaway wagon on Chez. Are you saying like Trfel and Slam or Trfel alone randomly decided not to lynch me and go after Chezinu just for cred? | ||
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On December 18 2023 23:58 marvellosity wrote: Given the runaway lynch on Chez, can you not imagine the world where mafia (either Trfel alone or a group decision) make the choice to bus Chez and look good from it? What I’m saying is, if Trfel stuck on you and didn’t vote Chez and everyone else voted the same, he would look like 100% mafia after d2 lynch That would make sense if he had that change of heart after the day progressed, but I'm pretty sure he was one the first to actually call me town and tell people to go on Chez. At the point which he did I was advocating for his lynch, not Chez's | ||
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On December 19 2023 00:03 marvellosity wrote: Yes (at least I think it is not an unreasonable line of thought!) Mafia in that spot (even before all the votes pile on Chez) have to make a decision on whether supporting your lynch will actually get you lynched. If the answer is “I don’t think sand will end up getting lynched” the correct play is to go after Chez for cred It doesn't make sense to me when this happened. Lets assume Palmar is town in this scenario. We had you palmar HF, tunneling me. Slam and rayn had not really taken a position. Why would they ever assume I'm not getting lynched? If you read Trfel's posts after he enters the thread on d2 it's all so good. If anything you can criticize is being too calm and level headed. | ||
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On December 19 2023 00:05 marvellosity wrote: The thing is I remember well the point you called him town and why. Pocketed you for the rest of the game, potentially, from that one play. Possibly, but that seems useless since at that point I would probably going to get miss lynched either way and I don't think I held any sway over town. He had no way of knowing I would get into a frenzy and start obsessing over this game and give him the victory by not ever lynching him. At that point that would be an extremely bad play as mafia. You guys just killed HF yesterday under the assumption that mafia made an extremely bad night kill. I don't think these assumptions are high e.v. | ||
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On December 14 2023 03:21 Trfel wrote: I thought raynpelikoneet was town but I honestly forget why. Now I kinda think he's mafia but I need to reread him (next on the list), it irks me since I think I had a reason to townread him and forgot it though. I always think you're town. This game is no exception. Sometimes you end up being mafia. It's sad but I have no idea how to change this. This post is extremely townie of Trfel. The irks me part, it looks hard to fake that sentiment as mafia | ||
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On December 19 2023 00:21 die_meatbaby wrote: Jesus snake calmed me down. I am sorry for the mean words and I am sorry for whoever i offendet in my aggresive mood. Mafia is playing well and i guess I was offendet beeing fooled so long and so much from scum. I am calm now. Sorry if somebody feels offendet by my words. Nobody is offended, we are all big boys. We just want you to try to form a cohesive view and try to convince us of it. | ||
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On December 19 2023 00:05 marvellosity wrote: The thing is I remember well the point you called him town and why. Pocketed you for the rest of the game, potentially, from that one play. You also "pocketed" me for the rest of the game by changing your vote to chez when you had every excuse not to. Should I also throw away this notion and assume it was a bad play? | ||
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On December 18 2023 19:12 Palmar wrote: I'm straight up taking a break. will post thoughts if I feel like it. Do you believe this depressed Palmar post? Do you believe he is reading you null and me possibly mafia? | ||
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I see rayn grilling Trfel for a bit in the next page, it looks like the only player he ever goes aggro on. And this is after agreeing with Palmar here: On December 17 2023 08:59 Palmar wrote: Again, I don't do associative reads and I don't care what deaf mafia say. Do you agree with my townreads? (dmb, trfel, slam) On December 17 2023 09:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes i agree with those reads. Seems like an inconsistent state of mind from rayn. Not sure how this reflects on Trfel, but definetely seems off from rayn | ||
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On December 17 2023 09:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: I can agree to 1 and probably to 3 as well. Not so much on 2. Question to you; based on 3, you think i haven't done that? Maybe not in a way you like but like you think i haven't made any major discussions happen for instance? Palmar is asking rayn about HF, but since Palmar mentions rayn here he has very little curiosity about the HF discussion and goes into disrupt suspicion mode again | ||
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On December 19 2023 01:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: sandroba why do you think slam is town, can i have a bullet point list? 1 - D2 Slam was amazing. He called out Chez on a very unique point and determined I was town, went against thread sentiment. 2 - Everyone is calling Slam town all through the game, including dead townies and HF who said to never lynch Slam. There must be something that went on in their QT that we don't know about that made HF make that post. 3 - It's easier | ||
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On December 19 2023 01:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because i thought Trfel is town? What are you trying to imply? I'm saying it's not clear to me you really thought that at that point from your previous posts. Also, it's not clear you thought that after Trfel came in the thread and you grilled him, it's weird how aggro you went on him given you town read him. I'm saying to me it looks like you are placating Palmar. | ||
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On December 19 2023 01:38 marvellosity wrote: Just one other thing on Trfel. Why is he the only other player than me not to have some sort of mafia read on Palmar yesterday? He was town reading Palmar, he said the only reason he might even consider Palmar is mafia is due to trouble finding the other scum. He was town reading rayn at that point, only real scum read was dmb | ||
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On December 19 2023 01:36 marvellosity wrote: The posts from 2488 that go on a few just read natural to me. Don’t they to you? Says lynching you is the right thing for gameplay reasons. Then says he doesn’t really think you’re mafia though. Moves on to DMB and then a little while later concludes not mafia. Kinda yes, but I have to ignore something about someone if someone ever in this game is going to be mafia | ||
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On December 19 2023 01:37 Alakaslam wrote: You were up for lynch You expressed your town alignment You were saved Dmb was up for lynch She has expressed her town alignment I am trying to save her too Understood. I'm okay with this. Coming around to dmb town. Still think some of these town reads DMB was getting are BS | ||
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On December 19 2023 01:46 marvellosity wrote: But why when no one else was? I’m a special (possibly dumb fool) case. Trfel isn’t. So ??? Well if we assume Palmar is town, Trfel is just good? Same as Slam. I guess we can with ego and say Trfel and Slam can't be this good? Seems like a shitty thing to do | ||
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On December 19 2023 01:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have a hard time understanding D2 which should actually tell a lot about the game, maybe the most in terms of what actual information we do have. Apparently everyone sees, or claim to see this entirely the other way i do see it. marv in your opinion, whose votes were they key votes in changing the lynch from sandroba to Chezinu? Rayn you are hinging on this Chezinu vote thing way too much and it doesn't look good to me. | ||
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On December 19 2023 01:55 marvellosity wrote: Maybe yes. But it’s not like TMI is not a thing, right? I am not saying they can’t be good, or even if they are both town (or mafia for that matter lol) they haven’t completely outplayed me this game, they probably have as either alignment tbh. Doesn’t mean it’s not interesting that sand, HF, Koshi think Palmar is mafia but Trfel, slam don’t, does it? Slam was on Palmar. Sure, it's interesting how level headed Trfel has been. The high ego play is to think I was right on Trfel all along, but I just looked at the game where he was scum with chez and it's not very similar. | ||
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On December 19 2023 01:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well for some reason most of the game is holding it against me, while i would never put my vote there in case i am mafia (even if i was mafia with sandroba). I have to say though i really didn't have that much of preference there, so i kinda see in that sense. Sure i thought Chezinu is mafia, but witouth further investigation at the time i put my vote there because HF who i thought is mafia was kinda white knighting Chezinu while saying the complete opposite. I wanted to see what happens, then Koshi started to shit on me on the vote, same with HF. I also had reservations with Koshi, it didn't help he was like 1000000% against my vote, but when you voted (when it should make even less sense for him), he just started being a good sheepyboi. So yeah, i thought fuck it, this has to be the correct play. I guess you could say i made the right decision based on wrong information lol Rayn if you are mafia you are too good, I 100% buy this explanation | ||
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He had very few posts on that game, got easily lynched d1. https://tl.net/forum/mafia/560300-holy-guardians-cpt-3?user=Trfel | ||
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On December 19 2023 02:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: You do realise this is absolute horse shit? Go read any of my mafia games i have ever played. It's a good heuristic that mafia tries to avoid conflict, but I buy that you believe (maybe correctly) that it doesn't apply in your case. Haven't played with you too many games, only from memory remember you being more aggro in general | ||
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On December 19 2023 02:15 marvellosity wrote: See this is the one I glanced at quickly https://tl.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?user=Trfel And this scumgame Trfel had more pages of filter than any of the towngames I looked at quickly Did you read this game? Was he town siding and being reasonable in ther? | ||
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On December 19 2023 02:19 marvellosity wrote: Haven’t spent enough time to work out what townsiding is in that game lol. Doesn’t this post look good though? https://tl.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?page=65#1281 Looks good, but compared to his posts here it's not similar. Over there you can see it's very objective and driven, trying to look townie. The posts here are very waffly with caveats and thought process seems genuine. | ||
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On December 19 2023 02:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: So if Trfel is mafia with Palmar it's nothing similar at all? Sure, I'll take another look at Trfel if Palmar is mafia. The Chezinu push though is out of character based on the other game which he defended his scum buddies. | ||
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On December 19 2023 02:34 marvellosity wrote: I think you’re being too specific with he townsiding stuff. I think it’s clear Trfel can make impressive, thought out posts as mafia. Of course you can easily be right here sand. I’m not even calling Trfel mafia here (although it seems to be all I’m talking about!). We just have to be bloody sure that we haven’t written him off as town when it’s not 100% I’ll put it another way - I don’t think you, or Koshi, or Palmar can play the way you’ve played this game as mafia. I do think Trfel could play this way as mafia. Argh, I hate that you clump Palmar together here, I don't think Palmar has done anywhere near what I would expect him to do as town. I don't like the reads of "can be mafia", even if Trfel could be convincing as mafia this game he is using his powers for good, which makes more sense if he is town. If Palmar is town, to me it becomes even more unreasonable Trfel is mafia. So I'm always lynching Palmar first here. | ||
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On December 19 2023 04:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: First of all, in contrary to marv i don't like sandroba a bit. I don't think he was trying to get a lynch on DMB on D3 and after i voted for HF (which should be quite obvious deduction on where i am putting my vote based on earlier interactions), i don't think he tried to make the lynch go another way. I don't like he didn't try to do anything on Trfel's vote after Trfel voted HF after me. But when the phase changed and HF flipped town everyone is fucking shit and the giving shit starts to happen. Except that it doesn't happen towards Trfel. Why doesn't Trfel's vote on HF matter, it's the worst vote in sandrobas mind where HF is town and other candidates (Palmar/DMB) are mafia? And again, none of this happened during the DAY PHASE, it only started happening IMMEDIATELY after the day ended and HF flipped. If he has reservations about HF's alignment, that's fine, but the reaction towards a town lynch should not be like that in the case. If he does not have reservations (that's also fine), those things should be done before flip, and he should have been more keen to actually try to lynch someone else. Like really try,. not just look like it after the lynch. I don't think you read the game at all. While I was here before the eod I told people 10x or so that HF being mafia was stupid and didn't make any sense, that I wasn't lynching HF and I looked into everything everyone brought up in regards to HF being scum including past games here and on another website. I did get cold feet on palmar due to blue theory and dmb I thought could be mafia and didn't have any better ideas | ||
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On December 19 2023 05:29 Palmar wrote: Sandroba not getting into his thick head that literally everything in that qt was trolling is at this point getting suspicious Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it through | ||
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On December 19 2023 05:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: which of that happened after i voted? or after trfel voted? i am not talking about stuff before that. I don't get it, why is this relevant? I only posted while I was online and then again after I came online again after eod | ||
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On December 19 2023 05:41 marvellosity wrote: But I know it’s true and I wasn’t even there… Are you saying Palmar can't troll as mafia? If Palmar is town does he ever stop trolling and starts talking seriously? Even after the Chez flip, I reached out a couple of times and he never talked to me then, even though he posted in the thread in that window. Does that make any sense as town? | ||
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On December 19 2023 05:49 marvellosity wrote: Of course Palmar can, and does, troll as mafia. And I’m not saying that him trolling you in the qt is town. I’m saying it’s not mafia indicative. You must know him well enough to know he enjoys trolling his scumreads? I don't actually, I've seen him trolling a bit as both alignments, but not in particular trolling his scum reads. | ||
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On December 19 2023 05:46 marvellosity wrote: Mafia don’t tend to get more and more involved as the game goes on, it’s hard to keep up that level of genuine interest in the game. Right, and how is Palmar looking again? | ||
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On December 19 2023 05:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Trfel's vote of HF is suspicious for me, i can see how he comes to that conclusion but like he doesn't want to come to that conclusion and everything before and after that sounds like he should be voting for DMB and trying to make people vote for DMB. not sure if i believe this and i am not sure why sandroba believes this. I can possibly buy it being scummy if Palmar is scum, but if only Trfel is scum why doesn't he leave his vote on DMB? Why does he try to make an educated guess here on who is more likely mafia between the options available? | ||
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On December 19 2023 05:52 marvellosity wrote: It doesn’t. It’s my read on sand. You guys need to stop trying to logic my read on Palmar with anyone or anything else. I have genuinely been through (parts of!) Palmar’s filter with an open mind, but I keep ending at the same conclusion. And I’ve said this a million times. Palmar could be making the biggest fool of me, in which case I will learn a hard but valuable lesson this game. But I can’t get off the townread. It's hard to accept that, because maybe Palmar did high-effort things to try to get a townread d1 and then fucked off and now he is coasting on that forever. He even used "Do you trust marv's read on my behavior over yours?" yesterday | ||
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On December 19 2023 06:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because he is not contributing to the lynch, and that's even worse. I mean if he doesn't make a choice between Palmar/HF, how does that look on him? Do you think he made the choice he should have? I think he looks worse from swapping onto the townie who is about to get lynched than to leaving his vote on dmb. Unless palmar is mafia, which you could argue he is doing to save palmar | ||
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On December 19 2023 05:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: because we all post when we can post. you are accusing me of posting on certain times or not posting on certain times, i have tried to post on time that matter, you throw shit on me for that. and then you don't do anything on the lynch, and appear literally on the deadline to shit on people. what am i supposed to think? I accused you of mostly trying to placate people when you do post. Saying that I didn't do shit on the lynch is amazing, I think I did the most out of everyone here to figure out the game yesterday with the limited time I did have | ||
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On December 19 2023 06:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: so like his vote looks bad in all of the cases? :D Are you trying to understand or no? Yes, it will look bad if he swaps on the townie that is about to get lynched. As mafia you know that and you refrain from doing it, unless doing it is in your direct interest aka if palmar is scum with him and will be lynched otherwise | ||
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On December 19 2023 06:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't argue against that sentiment, but if HF and Palmar are both town then again you didn't. It's not exactly townie in my opinion to "do stuff" when the stuff is towards lynching a townie or a townie or a townie... I know i am wrong, in case Palmar in case is mafia, but on surface level that's not a really good argument in my mind, itä very easy to do stuff as mafia when your own shit is not on the line. If I'm town I don't actually know who the mafia is huh? It's the whole purpose of the game? This line of questioning is quite stupid and you can say that 10x more about yourself or any other player | ||
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On December 19 2023 06:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: And if Palmar is town, why does Trfel not do it? If Trfel is mafia and Palmar town Trfel doesn't need to do anything, he has no reason for sticking his neck out. Of course he can do it for w/e reason, but it's not something I think mafia would be doing. | ||
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On December 19 2023 17:54 Palmar wrote: We can't no lynch. Mafia can just plop down 1 vote on the deadline and win the game. Can you explain this in more detail? I really think we benefit from one extra flip. Probably Slam gets killed here and we eliminate the chance of losing to a slam team? | ||
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On December 19 2023 18:06 Palmar wrote: And you know, at the moment we just lynch dmb. Agree with this. I'm just going to admit it, I'm not lynching Palmar this game. If he is mafia he has played a good game. I still have this doubt about what Slam said to HF in the QT that made him say to never lynch Slam, which is why I wanted to sleep. | ||
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Some of the time I must admit it just looks like a bad townie. But looking at it over the spam of the game I think it's very likely this is just an act, she realized at some point that this works and is just repeating this over and over. | ||
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On December 19 2023 17:54 Palmar wrote: We can't no lynch. Mafia can just plop down 1 vote on the deadline and win the game. Are you saying if there is 4 no lynch votes and 2 votes on someone, someone gets lynched? I don't think that's how it works. | ||
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On December 20 2023 00:58 die_meatbaby wrote: What crazy act? I tried to stop the HF lynch. I said rather kill me then HF. The hell should I do that as scum. Yes I was kinda wrong with his alignment but at least I knew he was not scum. And also yes Palmar looking kinda Town right now, but at this point we are not allowed to make another misslynch. Help me to find the real scum instead of voting me because you all think I have a bad Town game. Did anybody read my older games from those who play the first time with me? You will find all games I ever played here on TL. How did you know he was not scum? You've been calling people scum randomly, how could you be so sure on HF? Claiming kill me because HF is blue, or even believing HF blue claim is crazy as town as well. It looks like either yourself or some other mafia told you to act crazy / dumb and people would spare you. | ||
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You are a lot less all over that place in that game, it's very different from this one. This HF thing alone is enough for me to call an act, compared to the other reads you have this game this one is supremely outlandish. On the game I posted you were trying to form a concise view of who is mafia and who isn't and trying to get that across. Here you are all over the place not even trying to solve the game. Just acting as paranoid as you can, misinterpreting very straight forward posts, tunnelling palmar then not really going after him. It all screams like Chez or whoever, or you yourself came up with the idea to just go crazy in the thread. | ||
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On December 20 2023 01:24 die_meatbaby wrote: I explained why I called people scum. Look at my Filter I compared palmar with his old scumplays. I explained why Trfel is scummy for me. I explained why I called people scum here. I just use other methods and maybe I see the game in other eyes because it's my 4th game and I am already bored as well rolling Town all the time. And maybe it was stupid do think HF is blue but as scum I would killed him in the night??? Why would he be alive. Also I will not lynch my bf on the first day if I know he is Town. This misslynch from Vivax breaks my heart because he was happy and excited to play with Palmar again. You don't seem bored at points in the thread where people are discussing you for a lynch. "And maybe it was stupid do think HF is blue but as scum I would killed him in the night???" I don't buy that you think this is a good explanation, surely if you were town you would know that as scum you could be just lying about thinking he is blue? Again this is pretending like you are dumb. | ||
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On December 18 2023 00:35 die_meatbaby wrote: There a people NOW who are thinking of him as scum, but not after the first lynch. I was alone with my thoughts there. I never votet on Palmar because it would just be a useless vote. First vote i need to safe vivax. (altough we missed one vote to safe him) Second 10 votes on chez... 1 vote on Palmar will chance the lynch... yeah.. I most likley think it would be Trfel or you! On December 18 2023 04:12 die_meatbaby wrote: rather lynch me than HF. Better do lose a normal Town then losing a blue one! I will die for Town and i will not care but i will not be with a lynch our hope for a vigi or something else what could help. I think these 2 posts here Trfel found are the strongest evidence that this is an act and DMB doesn't actually believe what she is saying. Only 4 hours before said HF was likely mafia. But 4 hours later she is telling us she is so sure HF is blue she wants to be lynched in his place. According to her she has been thinking HF is blue since N1, how can the first post ever make sense if that's how she sees it? | ||
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On December 20 2023 01:49 Palmar wrote: Yeah no I’m probably wrong, no lynch might be a plurality option. If you wanna we can but I kinda don’t care enough to wait. I'm like 99.999 on dmb, at this point I think it's more risky a bad townie might screw us over if someone sensible dies | ||
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So far my NK logic has held up. It seems like I'm the only one that cares about thinking what makes sense for mafia to do in the NK. It's hard to imagine mafia is making their own life a lot more difficult with the sole purpose to confuse me. | ||
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Not spilling the beans on what I think about that right now | ||
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On December 20 2023 23:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like in contrary i can ask you do you think DMB is more likely to play crazy as mafia when she is crazy as town, or would Trfel play wishy-washy on everything ever posted, as he is wishy-washy as town? Look at the HF interaction, she thought HF could be mafia. So she in fact did not think what she acted like she did when she made the martyr post. | ||
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On December 20 2023 23:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: Of course you think like that because you're mafia. I'll let everyone be the judge of that | ||
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What I see from Trfel is that he actually made a lot of very well thought out posts and did try to make arguments to lynch his scum reads (Chezinu, later DMB), but they were mostly ignored and fell in deaf ears since town was busy fighting each other. I recommend everyone to actually take the time and read his whole filter including spoilers, especially after day 2. Another thing that happened is that after he masoned me we briefly discussed the game before I had to go to bed. We said we would talk again the following day and have another back and forth. In between the time over the spam of 1.5 hours Trfel was posting his thoughts in the chat going over dmb filter while I was sleeping. To me that is extremely unreasonable that a mafia would ever be doing that with absolutely no expectation that they needed to do that. Why would a mafia be putting in work reading filters and posting about it in chat, while there was absolutely no expectation in my part of him doing so? I don't think it's reasonable to assume any mafia would think I would town read for that. It has crossed my mind that it could be palmar + trfel initially, but if that is the case they played an absolutely stellar scum game and I would be happy to lose to them. If it's you, you played a very strong scum game, at some times I read you townie, but at some times you did things wihch I believe had motivated reasoning. DMB rellied on the newbie card, which I guess is fair but I would be extremelly mad losing to. Slam played super well, rather lose to him than to you, but I'm open to reassessing that after dmb flips mafia. | ||
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On December 20 2023 23:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oh he masoned you... You aren't reading... | ||
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On December 20 2023 23:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why are people saying they are lynching DMB because "if we lose to someone else i am okay with it"? It's very fucking shitty and doesn't make anyone mafia. What we are saying is that DMB is obvious mafia and would be stupid to lose to her | ||
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Yes, I'm pretty confident | ||
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In fact Vivax did right before DMB unvoted her: On December 12 2023 11:53 Vivax wrote: Tinfoil world is Palmar/DMB/X 2nd point about HF: If her mind is racing to HFmight be scum, it's an act when she says: "Lynch me instead of HF, he is blue, I thought so since N2". It's scummy to misrepresent your feelings in order to appear townie or clueless | ||
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On December 21 2023 01:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: How does it help that DMB lynches Vivax, over sandroba? After that she has at least 3 irl days to deal with Vivax (unless nk him). I think you meant the other way around. We can't know for sure, but you are hinging so much of your town read on something that I think could be done as either alignment. | ||
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On December 21 2023 01:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am not super set on this explanation, but i don't really see a good case on why i am supposed to think she is mafia. I think Trfel's case spells it out pretty clearly why. The fact that you read the same case as me and don't even go: "Huh, there might be something there" makes absolutely no sense to me. Even if you think Trfel is scum, he would have bussed Chez d2 in that world, why could he not be doing that here | ||
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On December 21 2023 01:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: i meant if she is mafia. how does it help? or do you know she is town? I pointed out the motivation I think mafia you do it above, read and don't ask again | ||
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On December 21 2023 01:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think i already said why i think Trfel's vote could be a bus? I also think i answered Trfel's case in how it is possible DMB did that all as town. All these points: Cognitive dissonance 1: Palmar is mafia, but die_meatbaby doesn't take any actions towards lynching Palmar Cognitive dissonance 2: Suspicious of everyone, not inquisitive/not trying to figure things out Cognitive dissonance 3: lots of emotional energy, little/no scumhunting energy What hypothetical point you can make about a someone which you can't say: it is possible to do that all as town ? | ||
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On December 21 2023 01:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why is Trfel and Palmar impossible for you? Or any team that includes Slam? It's not impossible as I've said. It's just super unlikely in my mind. If that's the case they would have played the most amazing scum game I've seen, while possible I prefer to live in the real world which most likely Palmar just played a shitty game as town and Trfel played a good game as town. Slam I confess I'm somewhat relying on reads from others. The way he reacted today compared to you makes me feel more at ease with my world view | ||
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On December 21 2023 01:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: Of course anything can be done as town or as mafia.It's just about the fact what people would do as town or as mafia. Why are any of of those scumtells on DMB? Like, i think mafia is either Trfel and you, or Trfel and Palmar. I don't really think Palmar is mafia, but i can be wrong here. I made a case against Trfel, you seem to be very hesitant to disagree with the actual contents of the case, while disagreeing. I have commented on the case on DMB, that leaves me looking like whatever you think it does. I don't give a shit about that, it's MYLO, we lose if we lynch wrong. Why don't you want to comment on the case on Trfel? It's not me and I'm willing to lose to Palmar. If turns out it's Palmar I can always just yell at marv. | ||
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If you follow your plan we will lose to scum dmb, and you seem to be okay with that. All the people I'm saying I'm okay losing to I think are town and if I'm just wrong about that, they did a great job and props to them for winning the game | ||
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On December 21 2023 02:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah except i am not saying that, i am trying to lynch who i think is mafia, you're trying to lynch who you don't want to lose to. Not true, you are just grasping at straws | ||
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I don't know what my angle is either arguing with you, I'm honestly just annoyed at your tactics misconstruing things, which probably is your whole motivation for using them. I hope it at least is showing Palmar, Slam and Trfel how disingenuous you are being. | ||
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That should tell you everything you need to know. | ||
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No. I'm not your monkey. You already know what you did | ||
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On December 20 2023 22:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think Trfel is just mafia here. - Trfel has been very wishy-washy on his reads during the whole game. I know town!Trfel is wishy-wasy, i just think he is overplaying it here. Basically every read until last night ends up being "could be or is not mafia" category. Basically Trfel has called everyone mafia except for Palmar. Only after marv starts getting suspicious of him and his town read on Palmar he starts getting these hard stances on people. I understand the less people we have the less room there is also for error, but it just doesn't seem natural at all to me. So have pretty much every other dead townie. You even acknowledge that but just adds doesn't seem natural at the end. - Trfel calls DMB mafia for scumreading Palmar, but not doing anything with the read. Now this makes sense if the mafia team is exactly DMB and Palmar, but Trfel doesn't think this is the case because he townreads and has townread Palmar all game (except for one point where he thinks Palmar + marv could be mafia). This sort of behavior should only be suspicious for DMB if Palmar is mafia in his mind, because otherwise it doesn't make any sense to act like that, Palmar has been suspected by everyone pretty much during the whole game. "Now this makes sense if the mafia team is exactly DMB and Palmar," Your explanation here is flat-out wrong and you should know better. Mafia will try to avoid the spot light and not try to get people lynched, it doesn't only make sense if the scum read is also mafia. - I still don't know understand this: Basically everything Trfel writes, even his case on DMB, should be in towards Palmar being mafia, yet Palmar is his strongest town read. So i am going to guess he thinks i am mafia or Slam is mafia. But he already said he doesn't think i am mafia. Does Slam being mafia make sense to anyone else? Based on Trfel's reads, how is he going to put up a mafia team of two people here? At least he hasn't contributed towards that in any sense, just that DMB is mafia. Doesn't follow, you proposed something from your own head that Trfel should think Palmar is mafia and from there you said it doesn't make sense. Why does it matter if Trfel did not tell us who he thinks the other mafia is? - If Trfel really believes DMB is mafia, he didn't do anything to change the lynch on D3 to DMB. After i voted, he did absolutely nothing to contribute towards his preferred lynch DMB, just voted for HF and "gave up" for the day for whatever reason. Now the only reason i can of here, is that he wants to keep DMB as a lynch bait. The case he has presented against DMB was all there during D3, why didn't he act on it during D3? He did, town just didn't listen to him. Your speculation is one-sided. - Minor point but still a point, Trfel has (as Koshi did) misrepresented my actions during D1. We all know, or should know Koshi didn't read the thread properly, because he said so, and agreed to that when i was talking with him around the Chezinu lynch. Now Trfel has been reading the thread, at least he is trying to show such M.O. My interpretation is, that he knew Koshi is town, and took Koshi's statement of me having voted for Vivax D1 (when i never really did -- i called Vivax town) at face value without checking it even when i clearly expressed that earlier already, that i never did such thing!!. Doesn't matter. Doesn't make anyone mafia. Your interpretation about Koshi is just ridiculous. ##vote Trfel | ||
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On December 16 2023 16:51 Trfel wrote: Remaining players (excluding myself), 5 town/2 mafia marvellosity die_meatbaby raypelikoneet Palmar Alakaslam sandroba Holyflare + Show Spoiler [night kill analysis] + Honestly I really don't understand the Koshi kill. I thought Koshi was playing well and I don't think it's bad by any means, but in my interpretation of the situation that kill was marvellosity's 100% of the time, since he has been so involved and influential, and an involved marvellosity is as big of a threat as anyone. I have a hard time seeing marvellosity being mafia this game, if he is though this kill is a major indicator as to why. Part of me wonders if it really could be marvellosity + Palmar as mafia, it's not really what it looks like to me right now but it'd be worth looking into. I could see one reason for keeping town!marvellosity alive and killing Koshi instead is if Palmar is mafia (or if mafia wanted to try and incriminate Palmar, but this is less likely). Koshi was coming down on Palmar pretty hard towards end of night, and marvellosity has been about as big of a Palmar supporter as there is. This suggests to me that at least one of marvellosity and Palmar is mafia. I don't have any other reasons to support this, at least not yet, this is just night kill analysis. But I think it's worth keeping in mind. I'm not going to do seven filter dives right now, that sounds like quite a pain. So time to make some assumptions. Assumption 1: marvellosity is town. I think this is just a necessary assumption (for now) for the sake of processing what's going on and understanding the game. His play also feels very towny to me. I don't believe I have ever played with mafia!marvellosity who actually played the game, from what I've heard it was pretty legendary, so that casts bits of doubt, but I'm still going to go with it for now, I think it makes the most sense. Assumption 2: Holyflare is town. I just can't read this guy for the life of me, there have been multiple times in the past I've literally thought he was confirmed town and he ended up being mafia. So I'm just going to hope he is town, I don't know what else to do. Assumption 3: sandroba is town. This one's a bit tougher to make, I still see a lot of the early points against sandroba, and we still have a lot of disagreeing reads/contradicting thoughts. His play and involvement and investment have been continuing to rise though. If he is mafia he's been really growing in confidence lately, which is impressive given the start. The overall investment feels towny, and it does seem like he is critically thinking about the game. I liked his defense throughout day 2, the stubbornness and refusal to give up feels very very towny. And his continued increased presence since then feels hard to fake as mafia (though I don't know sandroba very well so maybe this is not worth considering). I definitely read sandroba as town, I should reread his filter/reevaluate this at some point but for now it will be an assumption. Adding later, I suppose Chezinu flipping mafia probably makes sandroba look worse due to Chezinu's day 1 vote, I don't think this is enough to change this assumption at this time though. Assumption 4: Alakaslam is town. I'm hesitant about this as well since I have a hard time telling his town and mafia games apart. He plays by feels and that makes it really hard since I normally read people based on how their reads change over time due to the information that happened. Since town!Alakaslam can see something happen once and think one thing, and then see someone post about it later and think a different thing about the initial event, that really messes with my ability to read him. Everyone says he is town, and hopefully that's good enough, I like his involvement and open-feeling play, but I think he is very scary as mafia and I could see him being mafia here. So he goes in the same category as sandroba, should reevaluate but for now, town. Leaves die_meatbaby, Palmar, and raynpelikoneet. Really makes me think I need to re-evaluate sandroba and Alakaslam sooner rather than later, I'll try to get to it before the end of the day. die_meatbaby Really thought she could be mafia earlier. Now I'm not so sure, some moments have felt very genuine. As I said before, I've had somewhat of a hard time understanding what she is saying at points, so I'll do my best. + Show Spoiler [analysis] + On December 11 2023 10:35 die_meatbaby wrote: (emphasis mine)So really think we just found 2 of 3 with this useless 30 pages of nothingness? Koshi + T +3rd person who trys to avoid the conversation between them and try to win alone most likely you/vivax or rayn It would never be this easy. But yes vivax filter is looking bad. To me, this reads like she is saying Koshi is mafia. Her only previous post on Koshi is here: On December 11 2023 10:10 die_meatbaby wrote: which doesn't sound very convinced. Not sure where such a confident scumread of Vivax comes from here?sorry getting active now. The thing is i don´t like how Koshi is just like 100% sure that Trfel is Town and just almost every post from him is like trying to save him. But also if Koshi is mafia he wouldn´t be that activ. On December 11 2023 10:39 die_meatbaby wrote: Too scummy to be scum feels like a very poor reason to doubt. But the notion of power roles playing differently is corroborated later. Not sure what to think.The problem is he looks so fucking scummy right now but i am not sure if i miss a blue point here. Defently not so green, but not worth a vote (for now) On December 11 2023 10:54 die_meatbaby wrote: Then there's the questions about Palmar, this is the second time she brings this up. Part of it feels like an easy mafia play, bring up something suspicious but give a way to back out of it. Of course, I would never be guilty of anything like that Why is Palmar so confident about his opinion on who is scum. It´s D1 and this dude things he can just read everybody and knows thats scum. Is he like god of this game or why i nobody suspect about his conidence here?  Very interested how she follows up when Palmar's play is discussed later though, since she seems quite interested in Palmar.On December 11 2023 11:26 die_meatbaby wrote: This wasn't the impression I got about her view on Palmar earlier but I don't think it's particularly scummy either so idk?Just to make this clear my decision to vote for Vivax is based on my own analysis and not because your ego convinced me to vote who ever you think is scum. And yes your filter looks good but you still not town for me and I will read and analysis every post you will make until you lose a bit of this self believing god player stuff here. Then, probably most importantly, the vote for Vivax (yes, I pulled the previous Palmar quote ahead of this, thought it made sense even though it's technically not chronological). On December 11 2023 11:16 die_meatbaby wrote: Okey what kind of wagon are you trying to build here. Like i really really try to see it but now you making my opinion on you even worse #vote vivax On December 11 2023 11:26 die_meatbaby wrote: So I literally don't know why she thinks Vivax is mafia? There hasn't been a single reason given. That sends all kinds of alarm bells to me.Just to make this clear my decision to vote for Vivax is based on my own analysis and not because your ego convinced me to vote who ever you think is scum. And yes your filter looks good but you still not town for me and I will read and analysis every post you will make until you lose a bit of this self believing god player stuff here. On December 11 2023 11:48 Grackaroni wrote: This is the vote count after die_meatbaby's vote. I know others had expressed interest in lynching Vivax as well, sandroba and I voted for Vivax in the next few hours. Basically saying that the momentum is going towards Vivax's lynch, but it's not secured yet.Day One Vote Count Vivax (3): Palmar, DarthPunk, die_meatbaby Sandroba (1): Trfel (1): Koshi (1): Holyflare, marvellosity (1): Koshi Holyflare (1): raynpelikoneet raynpelikoneet (0): Not Voting (4):Chezinu, Sandroba, Trfel, Vivax With 3 votes, Vivax is currently set to be lynched! The deadline is Tuesday, Dec 12 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in This is the first thing that really sticks out for me about die_meatbaby's filter. In my opinion, her vote on Vivax looks really bad. There is zero explanation and zero push, even when she votes her "explanation" is more defensive and doesn't seem to be encouraging anyone to want to lynch Vivax either. Even saying she has her own reasons but not sharing said reasons seems suspicious as all heck to me. Then she is gone for about 24 hours and comes back with 2 hours to go before the lynch. On December 12 2023 10:08 die_meatbaby wrote: She says she would vote for me or sandroba but still talks about Palmar. No reasons given why sandroba or I are suspicious.Tbh this last 3-4 posts from Vivax looks like a Townie who trys to stay alive, but just the rest from his Filter looks still worse then anyone else here. Also We are 9 vs 3 One miss lynch+ the night kill will leave us 6 vs 3. I really hope we don't fuck up with the lynch. On December 12 2023 12:30 die_meatbaby wrote: Says Chezinu looks suspicious post-Vivax flip, will see if there is followup. Another 24 hour or so break.It really looks bad, I need to sleep now On December 13 2023 22:29 die_meatbaby wrote: Here she kinda goes into why she wanted to lynch Vivax. The Vivax I remember can play a pretty good mafia game, doing things besides trolling, but maybe that hasn't been true in die_meatbaby's experience? Either way, it feels off to say that Vivax was mafia due to trolling because I don't think he was trolling, I wouldn't characterize his play that way at all.Vivax was excited to play again and special because of Palmar. I will not try to lynch my happy amore when Sandro and Palmar lookd suspicious as well in my eyes. Before the game started V said to me when Palmar is Mafia, Town is fucked. Why should I be suspicious about Palmar when I already know he is one of the strongest player here. Newbie Mafia vs Palmar would be the stupiest thing what a mafia me could do. Also as I never played as mafia a game am already bored as Town and because of work and this why I may was not around or activ as you used to see me in a game here. I voted on Vivax because I felt that this was scum. He is most likly a troll poster when he is red. I thought he makes here troll wagons and just look on his filter page 1-5 this looks all just scummy. I think I don´t have to quote any post from him because, if you see this as Town you are scum. But at the point the lnych comes near and he was working, I could see the stress full posts not trying to get lynched at work, but in a Townie way. Also i was with Dp the first who changed vote and tried to change the lynch. When I am rolling Town every fucking game then I want to win as Town. I have to go to work now. I will try to post more, and i will post a Town/Mafia List after work On December 14 2023 22:31 die_meatbaby wrote: Meta dives, to be honest I have no idea what to make of this post. I don't know what she thinks about Palmar after reading the meta. She seems to be scumreading me instead of sandroba at this point, which is reasonable enough given her perspective, again just going to see how she follows it up. Still suspicious of Chezinu as well. Palmar seems like her top scumread from the possible scumteams post earlier, #1680.Palmar: If you look on his older games like SNMMII, Personality, Liar Game Mini Mafia he is an insane mafia player (don´t want to push your ego more, but I have to say it.) You don´t change you play style like other players does and this mabye scares me to just not see it, but we have to think of you as mafia as well. In Liar Game Mini Mafia you also lead Town to Vote on Townies and won as Mafia (yeah I know you got lynched but still the first 4 Days was amazing fucking game. When Koshi is Mafia he is lazy and tired of beeing Mafia. He is here also bit lazy here but not lazy enough for beeing Mafia (atm) Also by every other player you can see slightly difference how they play as Mafia and how the play as Town. You pushing Town to vote on Vivax makes you the townleader who direction Towns but also makes you insane mafia, because you already did that stuff. You manged in LGMM to lead the town to vote a weak townie out D1 everbody voted VE out and I know to get VE wagon is not hard at all just smart and an asshole move btw, because VE is always a easy lynch (We all know that) I know over years you change normaly, but you do not. When you look at Koshi playing Mafia years ago he was activ and agressvily playing, now he just don´t want to be mafia and is lazy, don´t post much and just go on a randon voting train from town. Thats why I think Koshi is Town atm. He is more activ here than he would as Mafia Sandro: You looks less scum to me since I checked you profile as well. You are weak Mafia or it appears to me like this. But what I can say is that you ask so many question as Town. Like in every Town game what I could find you just asked everybody question over question and I don´t feel like this insane question routine you had is happening here. Maybe you changed. But I have to read more from your old games as soon as I find time for it. Trfl (worst gamername btw) Noir Mini Mafia is the best game to see how you play as Town, because you show emotions about voting a Town a you take way more pressure on your main mafia thought. You are a very emotional townie and easy to read as Town as well. In this game it seems you don´t take afford to find scum and just jump on an vote wagon from other people. I will quote you later and show you what i mean. But for now i have time problems for the next hours i try to post more and more specif as well. On December 15 2023 09:10 die_meatbaby wrote: Ends up voting for Chezinu instead of Palmar when Palmar was seemingly her biggest focus. This is the eighth (and final) vote on Chezinu.Yeah as Mafia I would be more active I am just bored already to get all the time same role and not playing finaly mafia. You, Marv and Dp knew how excited I was about playing mafia when we had to cancel the game after few hours because of stupid shit what happend. But I would prefer that you call me mafia instead of bad town. I just didn't had so much time play. Will get more time at the weekend, to play. Anyway Chez was around when Vivax already made the Townisch posts and didn't chance to. Never got a reason why he still was at Vivax not on Sandro. I am on the Chez lynch because if he his scum then there is a reason why he is not voting on sandro even though Vivax looked at the end so fucking more town than most of the players here and definitely more townisch then sandro. Chez posted 1 and a half our before lynch and don't tell you were not here at the lynch time when you active this shortly before lynch and in Europe it was 4 am but in America a good/normal time to be here #Vote Chez If he flips mafia it explains why he don't vote Sandro and just vote Trfl. chez/Sandro/Palmar Main scum thoughts I have in my head. If Chez flips green or blue I will have to figure out if trfel or Sandro is scum. But either one of them is. And as this less Townplayers we shouldn't not get any more Townlynchs. When I am already just getting the same fucking role I will win this shit against fucking scum. To me, this screams like a bus and is the second main point I see in die_meatbaby's filter. She seems very confident here that Chezinu is mafia, see the last sentence of the above quote. But this doesn't really make sense to me from a town perspective for two reasons. 1 - Nothing changed since EoD1 to make her want to lynch Chezinu, except that that's the consensus lynch everyone else went for. Her reasoning was true as soon as Chezinu voted for Vivax and remained unchanged. Chezinu was suspicious but seemingly not her top scumread then, why did this change now? Except for that Chezinu became a major wagon. 2 - No protest against lynching Chezinu or wanting to lynch Palmar, who seems to be her top scumread. Suddenly Chezinu is just as likely to be mafia. This feels very suspicious to me. On December 15 2023 09:49 die_meatbaby wrote: Emphasis mine, relevant sentence bolded. I get the reasoning but given her perspective going into this, it doesn't make sense at all to me.No it´s one of them you and chez. If chez flips red we will see that. i read antoher mafia game of yours and it just makes me so mad how you go on weak players and get Town to lynch them. You saw the mistakes that Vivax made on D1 and you took you chance to make first a safe Townread from almost everybody here and second to get a town lynch. Chez not voting Sandro 1 1/2 hour before lynch and not on D2 means something and you voting chez for saftey now. Chez has so many votes means mafia is already on him as well if he flips red. If he flips green you are still my preferred lynch after chez. Voting on you make now no sense because to less votes, you still have to many townreads. Or it is chez knowing he get caught and vote on Trfel so we think Sandro is with you guys but it will actually be Trfel, chez and you. Mafia loss this game. You can give up if you want as well Town will win anyway if chez flips red in 2 hours On December 15 2023 12:08 die_meatbaby wrote: Then she goes on to say I'm more likely mafia than sandroba. This really sticks out to me since it's post Chezinu flip, and she was using associations about Chezinu's vote making sandroba look really bad earlier. So why post-Chezinu flipping mafia would she lean towards ME being mafia and not sandroba, whereas she should be leaning towards sandroba being mafia more than me, given her position before the flip and how the flip should change her view?Dp was already at the start suspicious of Trfel. We all thinking of differnt scum in here. Sandro thinks me and Palmar. palmar have thoughts on Sandro and Trfel and so on, but most of us has one of them in our "scumlist" chez not voting sandro and just Trfel makes it seem like Sandro is on the team, but as he played to today and tried to not get lynched and this would just be to easy to be the truth it has to be Chez, Trfel, and ."?"... in my opinion still Palmar. This would explain the first NK as well. On December 15 2023 12:30 die_meatbaby wrote: Okay, the word still is crucial here. For how long has Palmar been her top scumread? This reinforces the aforementioned point about the vote onto Chezinu.Koshi and Rayn are not so activ in this game or at least I have the feeling of this and as I know Koshi is a lazy Mafia and Rayn is strange as well. Palmar is still my top scum read here. I sure he playing around with Town. Conclusion I think die_meatbaby is mafia. I think that this is indicated most by the way she has voted. Day 1, die_meatbaby voted for Vivax without giving a single reason why Vivax is mafia (other than just saying his filter is bad, which to me isn't a reason). She seems to have gone along with the thread sentiment really easily, and also didn't seem very passionate about lynching Vivax. Day 2, die_meatbaby voted for Chezinu while seemingly having Palmar as top scumread. She absolutely did not seem to care that Palmar wasn't being lynched or that she hadn't been sure that Chezinu was mafia, and nothing changed since her vague suspicion about Chezinu to being content with lynching Chezinu over even Palmar. See the analysis spoiler for more detail, but I'm just going to post this now. Will now read Palmar, and then raynpelikoneet if I have enough energy. I'm going to vote for die_meatbaby though, I think that the votes and explanations are very incriminating. This post here which has a ton of effort and was mostly ignored by everyone | ||
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On December 21 2023 03:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: I did say that. Koshi assumed shit i didn't do, i assume Trfel took that at face value (that they are true, because Koshi is tonw and he knew it), and used it against me, unknowing that it's not actually true. Your assumption here is just terrible, that he must know Koshi's alignment to assume he is not lying. I always assume people are not straight-up lying about stuff, sometimes if I specifically remember the opposite I might go back to check how things went down. I really doubt anyone here double checks every statement that is made. | ||
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On December 21 2023 03:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: why are all of your reads just plain out "this post looks town"? They are not, you are mafia and a naughty boy | ||
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On December 21 2023 04:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: I would lie about stuff other townies believe in, any good mafia would, because "you can't be held responsible" if a townie did that aswell. This is just speculation, it is at best NAI. For Trfel you are giving one-sided reasoning why a mafia could do things. For DMB you are giving one-sided reasoning why a townie would do it. You know what, it would actually be really funny from the outside, if we were both here each defending a different mafia. The only issue with this view is I'm willing to take a look at Trfel after we kill clear mafia dmb, while I think you must think your whole game hinges on dmb not getting lynched. | ||
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I found this thing earlier by the way, but at that point I was tired of arguing with mafia: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/598880-chezinu-streaks-vote-thread?page=2 Rayn voting Rels in the exact same spot he voted Chezinu this game. Also rayn's filter and annoying conflict with HF, very similar to his behavior here: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/586368-chezinu-streaks-mafia?user=raynpelikoneet&page=19 | ||
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Where is your head at? | ||
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- kill rayn - read the game, kill rayn | ||
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On December 21 2023 03:05 sandroba wrote: How can rayn even defend low effort dmb who is not even here defending herself is mind-boggling. We raised points on dmb which she has not addressed, yet rayn feels confortable speculating what town reasons she should have for it. That should tell you everything you need to know. This also, town rayn never does this | ||
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Rayn: On December 11 2023 01:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Trfel is basically a synonym to wishy-wasy when he is town. He makes very good points and then keeps doubting himself on them over and over again which makes other people questioning him which makes himself questioning himself even more. I don't think there is basically anything "wrong" (or scummy) with his play here. Also Rayn: On December 20 2023 22:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think Trfel is just mafia here. - Trfel has been very wishy-washy on his reads during the whole game. I know town!Trfel is wishy-wasy, i just think he is overplaying it here. Basically every read until last night ends up being "could be or is not mafia" category. Basically Trfel has called everyone mafia except for Palmar. Only after marv starts getting suspicious of him and his town read on Palmar he starts getting these hard stances on people. I understand the less people we have the less room there is also for error, but it just doesn't seem natural at all to me. | ||
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On December 22 2023 18:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: Normally that would be an okay reasoning, however you have to understand it was a mylo situation. In my opinion in mylo situation it is all hands on deck, and if we still had a mislynch, i would not have defended DMB like i did. I genuinely just thought she is town, if you don't agree with my reasoning being legit, then there is nothing i can do about it, but what you are saying doesn't make me mafia. It really does, because you didn't just defend her, you made up reasons to town read stuff she did before even letting her address it. You showed no interest in figuring out if she was town or not, you had that as a presupposition only her and for no one else. I'm aware I'm not going to convince you you are mafia regardless of alignment, but just want to say you are really nailed for this. I really do think you are straight up mafia, before even trying to figure if Slam is town or not. The way you acted yesterday with me was not a townie figuring out the game, it was mafia putting on a show and throwing suspicion at me and Trfel. | ||
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I'm not moving my vote. Slam has to probably claim mafia at this point to lose if it's him and I would still think twice about moving. | ||
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Everytime you gave a reason for someone to be town was based on very flimsy reasoning, reasoning that you would immediately discard as soon as thread sentiment moved the other way. You are just floating along with thread sentiment, keeping options open and arguing with people to appear townie, which is your mafia MO looking at the other game I linked. No effort to solve the game. Only real effort you ever put was yesterday to try to get Trfel or me, or whoever not dmb lynched. | ||
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On December 15 2023 22:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: First of all there is no way i am voting for Chezinu over sandroba D2 when i did if i was mafia. Not even in the scenario where i am mafia with Chezinu and sandroba. I was the key person to actually make Chezinu lynch even viable option at that time. So i guess it's time to look through all the people who are telling i am mafia because i voted for Chezinu, or whatever i did during D2. There is mafia there and there is probably 2 mafia in there. That means i don't care about Slam, Trfel, DMB. Knowing this is a flat out lie. You did exactly this as mafia in the game I linked, and you are lying about it to try to garner townie points. | ||
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Up to you guys if you want to wait or be done with this. | ||
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On December 23 2023 01:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: I didnt expect anything else. I was just playing until the end. You have your way and deal with it after the game.  | ||
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Even though throughout your filter you seem like you are reading Trfel and me as town at multiple points, you refuse to reevaluate your stupid reason for the dmb read, even when I pointed out that was no reason to TR anyone. Remember your d2 analysis and what you have been saying you find it very unlikely I'm mafia. On December 17 2023 10:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: On DMB: - I like her first read on Palmar (not readwise), but it doesn't seem like she has a team behind her ("is Palmar always this overconfident or does he just seem to me like a big headed strong player who trys to hide something") - She then voted for Vivax, while still doubting Palmar. Idk why she is trying to convince other people that Palmar is not town. - random comment on favoring a chez lynch (when dp posted something), i dont really see her doing that as mafia knowing chez is mafia - EoD 1 is just fucking townie from her... - I don't really see anything wrong on her play D2 Why do people think she is mafia gain? You take a very different stance in other players in the game than you do in DMB. When you vote HF you feel the need to justify you not voting DMB, which you already said you don't think is mafia: On December 18 2023 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##vote Holyflare Out ofthese three i am voting here. I had least somewhat productive discussion with Palmar last night, DMB i dont think is mafia. On December 18 2023 09:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like if DMB is mafia shes only mafia with HF, its outright idiotic to have a stance where youre not voting for another unknown player over yourself if it comesto that. As mafia i mean, i think i have only seen rsoultin do that and that caught 2 mafia. You vote HF and make it so that DMB wagon doesn't take off. Like even in this post it's 100% bs and a soft defense of DMB. How is DMB only mafia with HF? This is absolute horseshit and you know it! Not like dmb cannot lie when she is mafia. Yet you find a way of taking everything dmb says and does at face value, different from how you act regarding any other player in the game. | ||
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Just the thought of losing to Slam who is coasting on these town reads and not doing shit is pissing me off. | ||
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On December 23 2023 07:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: doesn't matter if i flip town or mafia here. My meta here is that it's within your range as scum. My read is mostly pushing mafia agenda when it's down to the wire | ||
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Even the NK, if it were Slam, I think he would kill you Palmar, since you said you were never lynching rayn. The Trfel kill makes it more likely it's rayn. The fact that rayn didn't seem to have read the thread before going on the offense. There are just too many things. I went through dmb filter thinking it would help, but instead what I find is dmb says slam is her top town read, never really doubts slam. When she talks abou rayn she is like "Can never tell if rayn is town or mafia" typical mafia shit. And slowly rayn makes his way into her town reads. So yeah, didn't help a ton. | ||
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Koshi we totally mindmelded since day 1! It's unfortunate that I performed so poorly d1 that almost every town player with few exceptions thought I was suspicious. I think my bad d1 almost cost town the game since it caused us to accuse each other for 3 cycles. Looking at the obs qt as well I was widely suspected and certainly and I shouldn't have been so incredulous about being scum read by marv and by palmar. Even DP who I thought had a really spot on interpretation of d1 ended up thinking I was mafia as well! Next game it's something I'll try to improve and if I roll mafia I'm going to try to be equally as involved. At the start of this game I was trying to not be so emotionally involved and more stoic, but I don't think it really worked out. I ended up being very emotional d2 forward and it seems to have helped, at least for others to read me. | ||
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On December 25 2023 01:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: Should have lynched you when i had the chance. Well played sir, i hope you participate in the further annual games. You too rayn, you frustrated me immensely at some points, but in a good way. It's amazing how well certain players such as yourself can defend and act townie. Not giving up at the end, you definitely gave your team a fair shot of winning this | ||
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