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On December 10 2023 20:31 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 20:30 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 20:24 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 20:18 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 20:13 marvellosity wrote:
If I came In the the thread first and had called out sandro’s post, I would think it was insane DP was calling me on it.
Just sayin. I think DarthPunk is focusing more on the way I brought up suspicion about sandroba's post rather than just that I did it, but I could be wrong? On December 10 2023 20:14 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 19:47 Trfel wrote:
I'm not expecting some huge commitment or 100% certain reads or anything like that. But I think it's reasonable to expect something of substance. Sandroba failed to provide that. I understand people wanting to share thoughts, even if they aren't sure about the conclusions, but at the same time it's a game of mafia where the conclusions about people's alignments is ultimately what matters. My point about sandroba isn't that he didn't have any strong conclusions, it's the amount of thoughts he shared without any conclusions whatsoever and the way that he seemingly undermined any conclusion he could have made with doubt and take-backsies or whatever you want to call it. I don't think that everything needs to progress the game necessarily, or have a distinct purpose, it's that sandroba's post is the type of post that should have a purpose but just doesn't.
What kind of substance are you expecting? he literally posted the 10th post of the game? If you go back to that quote I made with the red and take out the stuff in red then it would have had substantial conclusions. How confident would you say you were of sandroba's alignment when you wrote that post? Can you respond to this please. I thought I did?
Oh you did my bad.
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On December 10 2023 20:29 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 20:21 marvellosity wrote:On December 10 2023 20:18 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 20:13 marvellosity wrote:
If I came In the the thread first and had called out sandro’s post, I would think it was insane DP was calling me on it.
Just sayin. I think DarthPunk is focusing more on the way I brought up suspicion about sandroba's post rather than just that I did it, but I could be wrong? On December 10 2023 20:14 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 19:47 Trfel wrote:
I'm not expecting some huge commitment or 100% certain reads or anything like that. But I think it's reasonable to expect something of substance. Sandroba failed to provide that. I understand people wanting to share thoughts, even if they aren't sure about the conclusions, but at the same time it's a game of mafia where the conclusions about people's alignments is ultimately what matters. My point about sandroba isn't that he didn't have any strong conclusions, it's the amount of thoughts he shared without any conclusions whatsoever and the way that he seemingly undermined any conclusion he could have made with doubt and take-backsies or whatever you want to call it. I don't think that everything needs to progress the game necessarily, or have a distinct purpose, it's that sandroba's post is the type of post that should have a purpose but just doesn't.
What kind of substance are you expecting? he literally posted the 10th post of the game? If you go back to that quote I made with the red and take out the stuff in red then it would have had substantial conclusions. Yes, he is, but I don’t understand why you’d legitimise the attack on what, I would assume, would be your legit read on sandro’s post. Now I don’t like any of you :/ I mean I don't like that DarthPunk is disagreeing with me, I don't know if that makes him mafia though. Townies disagree about things fairly often. I can still stand by my view of sandroba and not be sure about DarthPunk, no?
Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 20:24 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 20:18 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 20:13 marvellosity wrote:
If I came In the the thread first and had called out sandro’s post, I would think it was insane DP was calling me on it.
Just sayin. I think DarthPunk is focusing more on the way I brought up suspicion about sandroba's post rather than just that I did it, but I could be wrong? On December 10 2023 20:14 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 19:47 Trfel wrote:
I'm not expecting some huge commitment or 100% certain reads or anything like that. But I think it's reasonable to expect something of substance. Sandroba failed to provide that. I understand people wanting to share thoughts, even if they aren't sure about the conclusions, but at the same time it's a game of mafia where the conclusions about people's alignments is ultimately what matters. My point about sandroba isn't that he didn't have any strong conclusions, it's the amount of thoughts he shared without any conclusions whatsoever and the way that he seemingly undermined any conclusion he could have made with doubt and take-backsies or whatever you want to call it. I don't think that everything needs to progress the game necessarily, or have a distinct purpose, it's that sandroba's post is the type of post that should have a purpose but just doesn't.
What kind of substance are you expecting? he literally posted the 10th post of the game? If you go back to that quote I made with the red and take out the stuff in red then it would have had substantial conclusions. How confident would you say you were of sandroba's alignment when you wrote that post? Of sandroba's alignment? Not very. His opening post felt very suspicious, but it's just one post. That could just be the way he thinks and communicates his thoughts. I'm very interested to see how he follows it up.
What -is- your view of Sandroba then?
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On December 10 2023 20:39 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 20:29 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 20:21 marvellosity wrote:On December 10 2023 20:18 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 20:13 marvellosity wrote:
If I came In the the thread first and had called out sandro’s post, I would think it was insane DP was calling me on it.
Just sayin. I think DarthPunk is focusing more on the way I brought up suspicion about sandroba's post rather than just that I did it, but I could be wrong? On December 10 2023 20:14 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 19:47 Trfel wrote:
I'm not expecting some huge commitment or 100% certain reads or anything like that. But I think it's reasonable to expect something of substance. Sandroba failed to provide that. I understand people wanting to share thoughts, even if they aren't sure about the conclusions, but at the same time it's a game of mafia where the conclusions about people's alignments is ultimately what matters. My point about sandroba isn't that he didn't have any strong conclusions, it's the amount of thoughts he shared without any conclusions whatsoever and the way that he seemingly undermined any conclusion he could have made with doubt and take-backsies or whatever you want to call it. I don't think that everything needs to progress the game necessarily, or have a distinct purpose, it's that sandroba's post is the type of post that should have a purpose but just doesn't.
What kind of substance are you expecting? he literally posted the 10th post of the game? If you go back to that quote I made with the red and take out the stuff in red then it would have had substantial conclusions. Yes, he is, but I don’t understand why you’d legitimise the attack on what, I would assume, would be your legit read on sandro’s post. Now I don’t like any of you :/ I mean I don't like that DarthPunk is disagreeing with me, I don't know if that makes him mafia though. Townies disagree about things fairly often. I can still stand by my view of sandroba and not be sure about DarthPunk, no?
On December 10 2023 20:24 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 20:18 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 20:13 marvellosity wrote:
If I came In the the thread first and had called out sandro’s post, I would think it was insane DP was calling me on it.
Just sayin. I think DarthPunk is focusing more on the way I brought up suspicion about sandroba's post rather than just that I did it, but I could be wrong? On December 10 2023 20:14 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 19:47 Trfel wrote:
I'm not expecting some huge commitment or 100% certain reads or anything like that. But I think it's reasonable to expect something of substance. Sandroba failed to provide that. I understand people wanting to share thoughts, even if they aren't sure about the conclusions, but at the same time it's a game of mafia where the conclusions about people's alignments is ultimately what matters. My point about sandroba isn't that he didn't have any strong conclusions, it's the amount of thoughts he shared without any conclusions whatsoever and the way that he seemingly undermined any conclusion he could have made with doubt and take-backsies or whatever you want to call it. I don't think that everything needs to progress the game necessarily, or have a distinct purpose, it's that sandroba's post is the type of post that should have a purpose but just doesn't.
What kind of substance are you expecting? he literally posted the 10th post of the game? If you go back to that quote I made with the red and take out the stuff in red then it would have had substantial conclusions. How confident would you say you were of sandroba's alignment when you wrote that post? Of sandroba's alignment? Not very. His opening post felt very suspicious, but it's just one post. That could just be the way he thinks and communicates his thoughts. I'm very interested to see how he follows it up. What -is- your view of Sandroba then? Suspicious, but there isn't much to work with. I'm intrigued by what marvellosity is saying about sandroba's play though, he hasn't contributed much and if the expectations are higher, that could be telling. I think it'll help to see a bit more from him though most of all.
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On December 10 2023 20:29 marvellosity wrote:
I dunno. I have a lot of respect for sandro, and time off or nay, I don’t think that’s what I expect from him.
I know I don’t like Trfel’s responses either though, so I’m looking forward to the rest of the day 🍿 I guess this just surprised me. The first part, that is.
If sandroba is capable of great things, would being mafia cause the disparity between said great things and his play this game? And if not, what would?
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On December 10 2023 18:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Palmar pros town here.
This is a very insightful and towny post. Good job rayn.
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On December 10 2023 17:14 DarthPunk wrote:
The level 1 analysis of this is that a player is being aggressive early, not afraid to post and that would be good for Trfel. My initial feelings reading the post was that it felt forced, with a lot of generic statements to try and make Sandroba's post seeem worse than it was.
I disagree that at the point of the game in which we are right now, that everything said needs to progress the game in a meaningful way. Sure, I would like that to be the case, but I also don't think that someone being non-committal is alignment indicative, in fact, someone being strongly committed early tends to make me lean mafia more than town, Town are trying to figure shit out at the start and are more curious than committed. DarthPunk, care to explain this?
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Trfel word count analysis suggests not mafia.
Trfel boring post analysis suggests maybe mafia.
Conclusion: none yet.
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Hello.
On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
Hi everyone, excited to be playing a game after being away from Mafia for so long! I believe I have some familiarity with most if not all players on the list, although I might be very outdated in accessing their meta.
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far.
We have Trfel and Slam entering the thread rather casually in my opinion. This approach by Sandro sticks out as overthinking and doesn't really seem like he's attempting to form some kind of real contact with them.
I don't like the phrasing in parts either (bolded).
'Posting within what I expected' comes out of the blue as you should be expectation-free if you don't know his alignment.
'Self-demeaning tone' is something I don't spot, where is the part of his filter that suggests that?
On December 10 2023 13:23 sandroba wrote:
I remember him being a bit wacky, careless, and somewhat random. Always found him hard to access in terms of alignment, but mostly remember he goes into more self-preservation mode and tones it down when mafia. Not sure how much that still applies, but I found his initial posts care-free, with a bit of prodding which I kinda liked, but done in a lighthearted way which could just again be his care-free nature
This is a piece of pseudo-information as it doesn't really help in reaching a conclusion on Slam either.
Sandroba, are these posts your legitimate opinion or did you write them mostly with the intent of creating a discussion surrounding Trfels and Slams alignments?
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Ignoring marv for the timelesss strategy of just murdering him if he doesn’t deliver me mafia.
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It just seems to me that you came roaring out of the gate with a huge case, based on some nitpicking really early in the thread, and you end up going nowhere on anything which is the essence of what the case you wrote on Sandro in the first place.
Now fair enough, sandroba hasn't been around so you haven't been able to pursue things further.
But your level of aggression just didn't really match with what was going on in the thread at the time, which you kind of acknowledge at the start of said post.
On December 10 2023 13:25 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
Hi everyone, excited to be playing a game after being away from Mafia for so long! I believe I have some familiarity with most if not all players on the list, although I might be very outdated in accessing their meta.
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. I guess instead of waiting I'll let the cat out of the bag, I'm impatient.
It's almost like an apology, like what were you waiting for?
And now you are kind of backtracking, which also doesn't match with the way you lead out originally.
it's all quite jarring to me.
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Mafia don’t get impatient to post their trash takes in the thread DP. They’d rather not post them.
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On December 10 2023 21:06 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 17:14 DarthPunk wrote:
The level 1 analysis of this is that a player is being aggressive early, not afraid to post and that would be good for Trfel. My initial feelings reading the post was that it felt forced, with a lot of generic statements to try and make Sandroba's post seeem worse than it was.
I disagree that at the point of the game in which we are right now, that everything said needs to progress the game in a meaningful way. Sure, I would like that to be the case, but I also don't think that someone being non-committal is alignment indicative, in fact, someone being strongly committed early tends to make me lean mafia more than town, Town are trying to figure shit out at the start and are more curious than committed. DarthPunk, care to explain this?
What exactly do you want me to explain about it?
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What I’m saying is I’d rather lynch Sandroba than Trfel at this moment.
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On December 10 2023 21:18 Palmar wrote:
Mafia don’t get impatient to post their trash takes in the thread DP. They’d rather not post them.
Everyone here is better than this IMO. I agree on a basic level, but play develops beyond that point after a while.
I tend to think townies are unapologetic and outraged when they detect some bullshit. Which is why I pointed it out, it speaks to a level of self-awareness of how he is viewed in my opinion.
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On December 10 2023 20:13 marvellosity wrote:
If I came In the the thread first and had called out sandro’s post, I would think it was insane DP was calling me on it.
Just sayin.
I agree.
On December 10 2023 17:14 DarthPunk wrote:Hey guys, just got back from watching my nieces (they are obsessed with Bluey if anyone knows that show) but have been following along the thread while I was away. Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 12:03 Alakaslam wrote:
Why aren't y'all instant and hanging on every second like my phoneposting ass? I liked Slams entry, seemed keen to be playing, I think slam probably could do that as mafia, but I think his alignment will work itself out along the lines of his engagement levels so wouldn't want to lynch him today. Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 12:03 Trfel wrote:Hi everyone, hope you have been well  Excited for the 12 player game. Increases my chance of finding mafia to 27.2%, higher than my normal 25% average! Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 12:10 Trfel wrote:
Also I should add, I could be wrong, but this seems like a heavy-EU player base in a game where the deadline is late at night for EU. So it's probably going to be important to be more organized and not rely on deadline shenanigans since people (hopefully) won't be around Unless there is some other solution to the Grackaroni deadline that people have discovered in my 3-year-plus absence. Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 12:40 Trfel wrote:
How are you doing, Alakaslam? Anyone else around?
I do find it interesting that there is a mason mechanic this game. Not sure if there is any way to realistically use that to our advantage, but I guess it probably doesn't hurt? As a rule, I tend to associate entry to threads like this with mafia play (setup speculation particularly). Admittedly, it could be a case of a returning player trying to feel his way back into the thread, but the BS detector was going off big time. Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
Hi everyone, excited to be playing a game after being away from Mafia for so long! I believe I have some familiarity with most if not all players on the list, although I might be very outdated in accessing their meta.
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. The last paragraph of this post reflected my viewpoint at that point in the thread, I don't really like the slam stuff. Meh.Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 13:25 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
Hi everyone, excited to be playing a game after being away from Mafia for so long! I believe I have some familiarity with most if not all players on the list, although I might be very outdated in accessing their meta.
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. I guess instead of waiting I'll let the cat out of the bag, I'm impatient. This post seems very wishy-washy, non-committal, and pointless. The first paragraph doesn't really say anything of substance (not that it's wrong per se, just doesn't really contribute anything meaningful to the game). The second paragraph is the same way. To me, he seems to end with exactly no read (and next to no thoughts) on Alakaslam. There's even "I like the poking about smiles, but it's phrased as a question so there is avoidance as well" which seems like aggressive-but-with-a-heavy-grain-of-salt that is easy to say without actually committing to it. "Posting within what I expected" and "not leaning one way or the other based on initial posts" doesn't end up meaning much at all. The other thing I want to note is all of the caveats and grain of salts and backtracking in sandroba's post. Not exactly sure how to phrase what I mean, but see here, in red: On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. He's shying away from saying something, like making a read and then backing off from it. Or giving a reason to doubt what he just said, or placing a limiter on it. For such a small post, it's riddled with it. To me, this comes across as trying to be non-committal and playing the "safe game" while making it look like you are saying things and trying to figure things out. The level 1 analysis of this is that a player is being aggressive early, not afraid to post and that would be good for Trfel. My initial feelings reading the post was that it felt forced, with a lot of generic statements to try and make Sandroba's post seeem worse than it was. I disagree that at the point of the game in which we are right now, that everything said needs to progress the game in a meaningful way. Sure, I would like that to be the case, but I also don't think that someone being non-committal is alignment indicative, in fact, someone being strongly committed early tends to make me lean mafia more than town, Town are trying to figure shit out at the start and are more curious than committed.
The bolded part from DP is a very backhanded way for him to 'begin' his suspicion arc of Trfel while potentially constructing himself a way of potentially distancing himself from Sandro by saying that he doesn't like the Slam bit in the same breath.
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On December 10 2023 21:16 DarthPunk wrote:It just seems to me that you came roaring out of the gate with a huge case, based on some nitpicking really early in the thread, and you end up going nowhere on anything which is the essence of what the case you wrote on Sandro in the first place. Now fair enough, sandroba hasn't been around so you haven't been able to pursue things further. But your level of aggression just didn't really match with what was going on in the thread at the time, which you kind of acknowledge at the start of said post. Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 13:25 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
Hi everyone, excited to be playing a game after being away from Mafia for so long! I believe I have some familiarity with most if not all players on the list, although I might be very outdated in accessing their meta.
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. I guess instead of waiting I'll let the cat out of the bag, I'm impatient. It's almost like an apology, like what were you waiting for? And now you are kind of backtracking, which also doesn't match with the way you lead out originally. it's all quite jarring to me. I assume you are talking to me, I am having a bit of trouble understanding what you are actually getting at here though.
Yes, I think sandroba is suspicious. No, I wouldn't wager high stakes on it. He's one of the people I'm most interested in (along with Alakaslam and perhaps yourself and an off-chance of Vivax), but I'm not certain yet. I posted the way I did to try and figure out sandroba's alignment (and eventually everyone else's). Just because I'm not very confident yet doesn't mean that I can't figure things out and investigate and that sort of thing. I didn't bring any aggression, that's just me trying to ask questions and figure things out.
If there is anything you'd like me to clear up please don't hesitate to ask, I'm just having a bit of trouble understanding this post though, it feels a bit nebulous to me.
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On December 10 2023 21:18 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 21:06 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 17:14 DarthPunk wrote:
The level 1 analysis of this is that a player is being aggressive early, not afraid to post and that would be good for Trfel. My initial feelings reading the post was that it felt forced, with a lot of generic statements to try and make Sandroba's post seeem worse than it was.
I disagree that at the point of the game in which we are right now, that everything said needs to progress the game in a meaningful way. Sure, I would like that to be the case, but I also don't think that someone being non-committal is alignment indicative, in fact, someone being strongly committed early tends to make me lean mafia more than town, Town are trying to figure shit out at the start and are more curious than committed. DarthPunk, care to explain this? What exactly do you want me to explain about it? You said that being aggressive early is good, right? I assume good meaning town-indicative, as opposed to mafia-indicative.
So why then is someone being strongly committed a mafia trait? Does that mean that if someone is aggressive early but not committed then that indicates town? That doesn't make much sense to me, why would someone be aggressive without commitment, in fact how is that even possible?
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On December 10 2023 21:27 DarthPunk wrote:
ok. that's fine.
Unvote
Wait, what?
I'm gonna need you to explain this one as well.
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On December 10 2023 18:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 18:04 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 18:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Palmar pros town here. But what are you? What do you make of trfel? Town. Depends mostly on what he answers to your question towards him. So you'll have to wait for my read.
Where is said question and why do you need him to answer it?
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EPT
