• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 16:10
CET 22:10
KST 06:10
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1812Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises1Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !11Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion What monitor do you use for playing Remastered? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ (UMS) SWITCHEROO *New* /Destination Edit/ What are former legends up to these days?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] LB SemiFinals - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] WB & LB Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Mechabellum Beyond All Reason Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 12 Days of Starcraft Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
National Diversity: A Challe…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Saturation point
Uldridge
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1038 users

Winter Warfare Mafia - Page 6

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 182 Next
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
December 10 2023 08:49 GMT
#101
I like slam and it annoys me that no one has yet said he’s 100% town confirmed.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
December 10 2023 08:54 GMT
#102
Sandroba correctly identified Slam’s best post (smiley thing) and also noticed how excellent it was but somehow convinced himself to not make a good read on it.

Brazilposting in crisis?
Computer says mafia
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
December 10 2023 08:54 GMT
#103
On December 10 2023 17:45 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2023 17:20 DarthPunk wrote:
On December 10 2023 17:17 Alakaslam wrote:
On December 10 2023 17:15 DarthPunk wrote:
On December 10 2023 15:12 Chezinu wrote:
On December 10 2023 11:36 Alakaslam wrote:
On December 10 2023 10:55 Chezinu wrote:
On December 10 2023 09:57 iamperfection wrote:
On December 10 2023 06:11 Chezinu wrote:
Let me know if yall want me to role-play a character.

your not role playing a character when you normally play ?

A specific character


Chezinu Izunizehc!

Hey Guys!

I'm Chezinu!


low effort, even for you :D

He is delivering as promised, though


As you seem like the only one here, what are your thoughts on the sandroba, trfel entrances?

Early game overreaction by both! They threw suspicion around kinda quick

If I saw later it was M/M I would chuckle at the cojones and be unsurprised


Do you really think that sandroba and trfel were the same? That's not how i view it at all.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
December 10 2023 08:55 GMT
#104
On December 10 2023 17:15 DarthPunk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2023 15:12 Chezinu wrote:
On December 10 2023 11:36 Alakaslam wrote:
On December 10 2023 10:55 Chezinu wrote:
On December 10 2023 09:57 iamperfection wrote:
On December 10 2023 06:11 Chezinu wrote:
Let me know if yall want me to role-play a character.

your not role playing a character when you normally play ?

A specific character


Chezinu Izunizehc!

Hey Guys!

I'm Chezinu!


low effort, even for you :D

Good town post. Without the smiley it would’ve been confirmed town. But smiley makes it 90% town.
Computer says mafia
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
December 10 2023 08:59 GMT
#105
Is it possible that trfel just came in the thread, tried to active post, instantly drew all suspicion towards himself and chose to do that as mafia?

Yes. Yes it is.

Vote: Trfel
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 10 2023 09:01 GMT
#106
Palmar pros town here.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 10 2023 09:01 GMT
#107
Probs*
table for two on a tv tray
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
December 10 2023 09:04 GMT
#108
On December 10 2023 18:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Palmar pros town here.


But what are you?

What do you make of trfel?
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
December 10 2023 09:04 GMT
#109
On December 10 2023 18:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Probs*


The first one was correct.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 10 2023 09:05 GMT
#110
On December 10 2023 18:04 DarthPunk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2023 18:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Palmar pros town here.


But what are you?

What do you make of trfel?

Town.

Depends mostly on what he answers to your question towards him. So you'll have to wait for my read.
table for two on a tv tray
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
December 10 2023 09:21 GMT
#111
On December 10 2023 17:54 DarthPunk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2023 17:45 Alakaslam wrote:
On December 10 2023 17:20 DarthPunk wrote:
On December 10 2023 17:17 Alakaslam wrote:
On December 10 2023 17:15 DarthPunk wrote:
On December 10 2023 15:12 Chezinu wrote:
On December 10 2023 11:36 Alakaslam wrote:
On December 10 2023 10:55 Chezinu wrote:
On December 10 2023 09:57 iamperfection wrote:
On December 10 2023 06:11 Chezinu wrote:
Let me know if yall want me to role-play a character.

your not role playing a character when you normally play ?

A specific character


Chezinu Izunizehc!

Hey Guys!

I'm Chezinu!


low effort, even for you :D

He is delivering as promised, though


As you seem like the only one here, what are your thoughts on the sandroba, trfel entrances?

Early game overreaction by both! They threw suspicion around kinda quick

If I saw later it was M/M I would chuckle at the cojones and be unsurprised


Do you really think that sandroba and trfel were the same? That's not how i view it at all.

I'm saying what you were saying, but while chewing on my tongue.
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
December 10 2023 09:24 GMT
#112
I see it regarding your point with Trfel, DP, but I also see DarthPunk's point about super early suspicions and that makes me unsure about your point on Trfel because it is still early
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
December 10 2023 09:25 GMT
#113
On December 10 2023 18:24 Alakaslam wrote:
I see it regarding your point with Trfel, DP, but I also see DarthPunk's point about super early suspicions and that makes me unsure about your point on Trfel because it is still early

+ Show Spoiler +
hyyyyyypocriiiiiiite
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
December 10 2023 09:34 GMT
#114
On December 10 2023 18:25 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2023 18:24 Alakaslam wrote:
I see it regarding your point with Trfel, DP, but I also see DarthPunk's point about super early suspicions and that makes me unsure about your point on Trfel because it is still early

+ Show Spoiler +
hyyyyyypocriiiiiiite


Yeah I always do this . Also sometime people are just scum (like cupcake read in one of the previous games) and trfel is fitting that bill for me.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
December 10 2023 10:19 GMT
#115
Don’t understand anyone who thinks Trfel is suspicious for calling out a pretty terrible first post from sandro tbh
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
December 10 2023 10:20 GMT
#116
Reads like a newbie tryharding and sandro is not that
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 10 2023 10:31 GMT
#117
On December 10 2023 17:49 Palmar wrote:
I like slam and it annoys me that no one has yet said he’s 100% town confirmed.
May I ask what I'm missing? I do lean towards Alakaslam being town but I am not sure where 100% confirmed town is coming from.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 10 2023 10:47 GMT
#118
On December 10 2023 14:00 sandroba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2023 13:26 Trfel wrote:
On December 10 2023 13:23 sandroba wrote:
I remember him being a bit wacky, careless, and somewhat random. Always found him hard to access in terms of alignment, but mostly remember he goes into more self-preservation mode and tones it down when mafia. Not sure how much that still applies, but I found his initial posts care-free, with a bit of prodding which I kinda liked, but done in a lighthearted way which could just again be his care-free nature
I guess what I meant moreso was, why did you post that section? Since you seemed to end up with no read whatsoever, I'm just curious what the motivation/mindset/purpose was?

It's not "no read", it's a few things that point one way or the other. The point of sharing inconclusive thoughts is that it helps other players make sense of my alignment and also invites others to partake in the discussion.
I guess I meant the conclusion, but fair enough.
On December 10 2023 14:17 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2023 13:40 Trfel wrote:
On December 10 2023 13:32 Alakaslam wrote:
On December 10 2023 13:25 Trfel wrote:
On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
Hi everyone, excited to be playing a game after being away from Mafia for so long! I believe I have some familiarity with most if not all players on the list, although I might be very outdated in accessing their meta.

So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.

For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far.
I guess instead of waiting I'll let the cat out of the bag, I'm impatient.

This post seems very wishy-washy, non-committal, and pointless. The first paragraph doesn't really say anything of substance (not that it's wrong per se, just doesn't really contribute anything meaningful to the game). The second paragraph is the same way. To me, he seems to end with exactly no read (and next to no thoughts) on Alakaslam. There's even "I like the poking about smiles, but it's phrased as a question so there is avoidance as well" which seems like aggressive-but-with-a-heavy-grain-of-salt that is easy to say without actually committing to it. "Posting within what I expected" and "not leaning one way or the other based on initial posts" doesn't end up meaning much at all.

The other thing I want to note is all of the caveats and grain of salts and backtracking in sandroba's post. Not exactly sure how to phrase what I mean, but see here, in red:

On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.

For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far.
He's shying away from saying something, like making a read and then backing off from it. Or giving a reason to doubt what he just said, or placing a limiter on it. For such a small post, it's riddled with it. To me, this comes across as trying to be non-committal and playing the "safe game" while making it look like you are saying things and trying to figure things out.

This too
What do you mean exactly by this, Alakaslam?

That you are also right, what could it also mean? I am dense regarding my vagueness
I just wasn't sure if you meant that you were agreeing or something else. Just wanted to check if I was missing something. Perhaps I was overly cautious but I didn't want to assume and be wrong.
On December 10 2023 15:12 Chezinu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2023 11:36 Alakaslam wrote:
On December 10 2023 10:55 Chezinu wrote:
On December 10 2023 09:57 iamperfection wrote:
On December 10 2023 06:11 Chezinu wrote:
Let me know if yall want me to role-play a character.

your not role playing a character when you normally play ?

A specific character


Chezinu Izunizehc!

Hey Guys!

I'm Chezinu!
Hi Chezinu, I'm Trfel! Hope you have been well these past few years.
On December 10 2023 17:10 DarthPunk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2023 13:25 Trfel wrote:
On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
Hi everyone, excited to be playing a game after being away from Mafia for so long! I believe I have some familiarity with most if not all players on the list, although I might be very outdated in accessing their meta.

So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.

For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far.
I guess instead of waiting I'll let the cat out of the bag, I'm impatient.

This post seems very wishy-washy, non-committal, and pointless. The first paragraph doesn't really say anything of substance (not that it's wrong per se, just doesn't really contribute anything meaningful to the game). The second paragraph is the same way. To me, he seems to end with exactly no read (and next to no thoughts) on Alakaslam. There's even "I like the poking about smiles, but it's phrased as a question so there is avoidance as well" which seems like aggressive-but-with-a-heavy-grain-of-salt that is easy to say without actually committing to it. "Posting within what I expected" and "not leaning one way or the other based on initial posts" doesn't end up meaning much at all.

The other thing I want to note is all of the caveats and grain of salts and backtracking in sandroba's post. Not exactly sure how to phrase what I mean, but see here, in red:

On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.

For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far.
He's shying away from saying something, like making a read and then backing off from it. Or giving a reason to doubt what he just said, or placing a limiter on it. For such a small post, it's riddled with it. To me, this comes across as trying to be non-committal and playing the "safe game" while making it look like you are saying things and trying to figure things out.



Trfel, what kind of committed position would you reasonably expect sandroba to have at that point in the game?
I'm not expecting some huge commitment or 100% certain reads or anything like that. But I think it's reasonable to expect something of substance. Sandroba failed to provide that. I understand people wanting to share thoughts, even if they aren't sure about the conclusions, but at the same time it's a game of mafia where the conclusions about people's alignments is ultimately what matters. My point about sandroba isn't that he didn't have any strong conclusions, it's the amount of thoughts he shared without any conclusions whatsoever and the way that he seemingly undermined any conclusion he could have made with doubt and take-backsies or whatever you want to call it. I don't think that everything needs to progress the game necessarily, or have a distinct purpose, it's that sandroba's post is the type of post that should have a purpose but just doesn't.

@Alakaslam, I'm getting lost in my quotes but this is in reference to what I asked earlier, where you said you agreed with my points about sandroba's post.
On December 10 2023 17:45 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2023 17:20 DarthPunk wrote:
On December 10 2023 17:17 Alakaslam wrote:
On December 10 2023 17:15 DarthPunk wrote:
On December 10 2023 15:12 Chezinu wrote:
On December 10 2023 11:36 Alakaslam wrote:
On December 10 2023 10:55 Chezinu wrote:
On December 10 2023 09:57 iamperfection wrote:
On December 10 2023 06:11 Chezinu wrote:
Let me know if yall want me to role-play a character.

your not role playing a character when you normally play ?

A specific character


Chezinu Izunizehc!

Hey Guys!

I'm Chezinu!


low effort, even for you :D

He is delivering as promised, though


As you seem like the only one here, what are your thoughts on the sandroba, trfel entrances?

Early game overreaction by both! They threw suspicion around kinda quick

If I saw later it was M/M I would chuckle at the cojones and be unsurprised
This seems surprising. In multiple ways to be honest. First, why did you agree with my post if it's just an overreaction? Second, wouldn't an overreaction by both imply that both are town, but then you said it could be mafia/mafia? Am I misreading something here? The first question is what I wanted to get at though, since it seems that this is quite the shift in direction.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
December 10 2023 10:52 GMT
#119
Jeez, so srs
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 10 2023 10:54 GMT
#120
On December 10 2023 19:31 Trfel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2023 17:49 Palmar wrote:
I like slam and it annoys me that no one has yet said he’s 100% town confirmed.
May I ask what I'm missing? I do lean towards Alakaslam being town but I am not sure where 100% confirmed town is coming from.
Also I'm actually going to take back that Alakaslam town lean, the more I think about it the more incongruous his read progression on me/my posts has been. Pending his answer to my question. I get that Alakaslam is someone who posts what he is thinking a lot, but still, the way he follows DarthPunk's entrance/sentiment doesn't seem right to me.
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 182 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 204
RushiSC 110
Nathanias 21
PiGStarcraft0
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 15085
Dewaltoss 166
ggaemo 132
Shuttle 92
firebathero 83
BRAT_OK 79
Dota 2
PGG 59
League of Legends
C9.Mang0197
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu484
Other Games
Grubby5439
FrodaN2303
tarik_tv1942
Beastyqt795
fl0m643
Mlord413
B2W.Neo242
ArmadaUGS101
QueenE64
Trikslyr44
KnowMe38
NarutO 28
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 59
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 90
• Adnapsc2 16
• Reevou 4
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV792
• Ler109
Other Games
• imaqtpie3161
• Shiphtur235
Upcoming Events
The PiG Daily
6m
SHIN vs sOs
Reynor vs Zoun
herO vs Classic
Solar vs Reynor
OSC
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
OSC
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Dewalt vs Bonyth
OSC
3 days
OSC
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Patches Events
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-12-29
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W2
Escore Tournament S1: W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
Underdog Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.