EPTAsk yourself this, what purpose does me voting for rels or hap serve town right now?
I really don't want to have explain every little thing.
[M][N] Holy Guardians - Chapter 2 - Page 11
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9729 Posts
Ask yourself this, what purpose does me voting for rels or hap serve town right now? I really don't want to have explain every little thing. | ||
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Vivax
22091 Posts
On April 05 2020 21:28 Jockmcplop wrote: You're right for some reason I thought I already posted about this. I question his motivations and his tone bothers me. I don't really have a case on him or anything its more that his tone seems strange, like.... diplomatic or politiciany. It felt like he was trying to disarm me with friendliness. He certainly hasn't said anything that would make me townread him and I find myself questioning his motives, as you saw before. He's at the bottom of my lynchpile because he seems to have some logic behind his reads that *could* be townie, and stayed calm when I pressured him. On balance, though, I think if there's a 4 person lynchpile he belongs in it. That guilty feeling when you pick a baby seal to club. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On April 05 2020 22:37 Jockmcplop wrote: You can do better than that rayn lol. Ask yourself this, what purpose does me voting for rels or hap serve town right now? I really don't want to have explain every little thing. I asked and i got a conclusion of "why would you vote for outside of your top 2 scumreads in a game where there is 2 scum?". Doesnt really matter who plays or who is playing or not. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9729 Posts
On April 05 2020 22:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: I asked and i got a conclusion of "why would you vote for outside of your top 2 scumreads in a game where there is 2 scum?". Doesnt really matter who plays or who is playing or not. That's an absolutely terrible conclusion to come to. It would make sense ONLY if you believe that the only reason to vote for someone is to kill them. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
##Vote: Jockmcplop My strongest scumread is Jock right now. His posts are full of "puffery" rather than productiveness. On April 05 2020 13:55 Jockmcplop wrote: Wow does everyone see something off with rayn? I don't see it. Overdefensiveness and coming into the game immediately being worried about people's read on you is +mafia for sure. I don't think all players play like that at all. A big example of this is the way you assume I think you are mafia when before this post I had not said anything of the sort, just that I disliked your previous post (I mostly disliked the logic of it until this response you just made). So the two assumptions you had made were: 1: I think you are mafia 2: The fact that you think that I think you are mafia, and Vivax's town read on you, are the most important things to you in the thread (ie you didn't respond to or quote anything else) Both of these assumptions show a mindset that you are coming into the game with, and that mindset is something that I have often seen with scum players. The whole tone and direction of this post is inconsistent with a town mentality. Typically, a town mindset is "I think you are scum, therefore I will convince others to vote for you." Jock here is taking a very deliberately argumentative tone in accusing Trefel. "I think you are mafia so I will argue with you." In addition, I dislike his "read-dump" post: On April 05 2020 21:15 Jockmcplop wrote: So far my town reads are vivax and bloody and I also wouldn't lynch rayn, or probably chez. Vivax I already explained, he just has that spark when he's trying to solve, and you can see it here. This is a meta read though so its always a chance that this is the game where scum Vivax changes his meta. He's probably town though. Bloody keeps saying things that I'm thinking and although that's fakeable so early in the game, I find it far more likely that he sees the game similarly to me because he's town. I wouldn't lynch rayn here because he *seems* townie, but historically I can't read rayn for shit so I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt really. I'll filter him in a minute and see if anything jumps out. I like the long post alot. Chez I wouldn't lynch also because I can't read him. He's very entertaining though so best keep him alive. Everyone else can die until we find scum, probably in the following order, scummiest first: haphauli - Not really much to say other than I agree with bloody and rayn but he needs to come and be town or he gets lynched. Rels Nothing. Shockeyy Need to see more from shockeyy but he seems a bit too laid back if you know what i mean. Almost like he can't be bothered. Said he wants to have more interactions with other people so I want to see what happens if he does. Trfel I have explained. He responded okay to pressure but I still think his case on rayn was poor and he pulled out the 'trying to get people talking' line that mafia loves. I'm trying to avoid tunnelling on him though because I've done that before when he was town. So yeah my two biggest scumreads have barely posted. I guess that shows where I am in this game at the moment. A lot of text but very little substance. He gives stances on players, then in the same breath, undermines his stances. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On April 05 2020 23:07 Hapahauli wrote: Typically, a town mindset is "I think you are scum, therefore I will convince others to vote for you." Let's say this is the case considering every player. How did you show this mindset in your first three posts of the game? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On April 05 2020 23:07 Hapahauli wrote: oh hey look Rayn is tunneling me! Sweet sweet old nostalgia. can you show me even one game where this happened when we were both town? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On April 05 2020 23:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: Let's say this is the case considering every player. How did you show this mindset in your first three posts of the game? My posts have fundamentally different motivations than Jockey. For one, I don't consider Shockey or Trefel scum-reads. I consider them lynchbait. There's something about their posting that triggers my "gut", and I'd rather try to engage with them early-game and/or think aloud in the thread a bit. Had the thread not kicked up while I was fast asleep, I probably would have continued trying to get them to talk a bit more and open up. Jockey is instead directly scumreading Trefel. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On April 05 2020 23:17 Hapahauli wrote: My posts have fundamentally different motivations than Jockey. For one, I don't consider Shockey or Trefel scum-reads. I consider them lynchbait. There's something about their posting that triggers my "gut", and I'd rather try to engage with them early-game and/or think aloud in the thread a bit. Had the thread not kicked up while I was fast asleep, I probably would have continued trying to get them to talk a bit more and open up. Jockey is instead directly scumreading Trefel. So why did you feel the need to say what you did in your first three posts then? Why aren't you scumreading Vivax now because he "took your bait" as you described it? Why don't you have anything to say about anything other than Jock even though the thread has kicked up? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On April 05 2020 23:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: can you show me even one game where this happened when we were both town? It feels nostalgic man. You might be right, or I might be able to actually dig through my mafia history, but I'm enjoying my morning waaaay too much to do so. I'm playing for the feels man. The feels. Regarding "hapa-meta" in general, I haven't played a game of forum mafia in... 3-4 years? I'm not an angry/bored law student with extra time on my hands to death-tunnel and grill people in this game no more. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
And yeah i am right 99% of the time on the first part, i dont think there is ever been a game when i have tunneled you from the beginning when i have been mafia and you have been town. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On April 05 2020 23:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: So why did you feel the need to say what you did in your first three posts then? Why aren't you scumreading Vivax now because he "took your bait" as you described it? Why don't you have anything to say about anything other than Jock even though the thread has kicked up? Hapa wakes up. Hapa sips coffee. Hapa reads thead. Hapa feels dat nostalgia. Hapa has scum feelings 'bout Jockey. Hapa posts feels 'bout Jockey. Hapa sees that his old buddy 'Rayn is posting and asking him questions! Hapa smiles. Hapa temporarily pauses re-reading the thread to answer Rayn's questions. Hapa answers Rayn's questions. Hapa will then resume re-reading. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On April 05 2020 23:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: when i have tunneled you from the beginning when i have been mafia and you have been town. when we have both been town | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
Day 1 - HOLY GUARDIANS CPT. 2 Votes BloodyC0bbler: (1) raynpelikoneet: (0) Hapahauli: (2) BloodyC0bbler, Trfel: (0) ShoCkeyy: (2) Vivax, Jockmcplop Jockmcplop: (2) Chezinu, Hapahauli Not Voting: Rels ShoCkeyy Hapahauli is set to die with 2 votes until End of Day | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Vivax and Trefel come across as strongly town. Vivax is adequately paranoid with a "dash" of dickish-ness. On April 05 2020 18:54 Vivax wrote: This is going to be a hard game, too much scummy stuff from too many people that can't all be mafia. There is a certain "earnestness" about Trefel's posting that's very consistent with a town-Trefel mindset. On April 05 2020 15:16 Trfel wrote: Wait a second, I'm confused. By "new and curious," (see nested quote) are you characterizing my play this game, or are you characterizing my play last game/overall? Side note, I really want to be suspicious of Jockmcplop, his wording and logic just feel so off, but I can't put my finger on it or articulate why  So I'll let it drop. I reserve the right to be suspicious of him later though  The bolded especially. For a player like Trefel, the tone and transparency of this are spot-on with what a townie would be feeling in this particular spot. I think this is very hard to fake. Jock remains a scumread. I've already posted my rationale, but I'll elaborate on it in the next post. BloodyCobbler is also a scumread. Regarding BC, the gist of it is that I have a hard time justifying how he arrived at his initial readlist. On April 05 2020 15:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Town Bloodyc0bbler Leaning town Shockeyy Jockmcplop Null Chezinu Rayn Rels Lean scum Vivax Scum Trfel Hapa His scumreads are not inherently mafia-motivated. Very, very wrong, but not distinguishable between wrong-town and malevolent-mafia. BC is clearly reading and interpreting the thread on a "how much are you posting vs. what are you contributing" mindset. Regarding Me: + Show Spoiler + On April 05 2020 15:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote: His posts scream posting for sake of posting. Asking questions is great, but only if followed by content. I dont like what ive seen thus far. Interesting question though ;p Regarding Trefel: + Show Spoiler + On April 05 2020 19:03 BloodyC0bbler wrote: What does it add to the thread? How is it helping us progress towards catching someone who is scum? What point does explaining how the game should be played, in relation to a player whos playstyle is a known quantity, to justify a hard stance read this early in the game? Like, I havent played seriously for years, but what he posted is shit mafia have done for ages to try and blend in. Talking about how one should or shouldn't play makes you look like you are providing useful content when its instead just fluff. If you take into consideration how hard he also was defending himself / reacting to general suspicion so early into the game gives me the read I have. Regarding Vivax: + Show Spoiler + On April 05 2020 18:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Its why I have him as a scum lean. Play I dislike / view as bad (not saying it is the wrong way to play just that i dont like it) makes me lower you down until you do something that stands out. I am merely waiting for it. He has been more active since my original read, but he still needs to give real content to the thread. These three reads have a common theme: all of us are posting, but not "contributing content", trying to BS our way into inflating our post counts. Given BC's emphasis, it is extremely hard for me to understand how town-BC turns around and slight town-reads Shockeyy, who up until this point in the game has posted over 10 times, yet only contributed a "benefit of the doubt" read on Trefel: On April 05 2020 14:37 ShoCkeyy wrote: Trfel from his last game seems new and curious. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. The dissonance between what he is stating to be his emphasis in his scumreads vs. how he is reading Shockey shows his mafia mindset here. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On April 05 2020 22:42 Jockmcplop wrote: That's an absolutely terrible conclusion to come to. It would make sense ONLY if you believe that the only reason to vote for someone is to kill them. "Pressure votes" are certainly valid. Why does town-Jock not want to pressure his top scumread ("mafia-hapa") with a vote? Why does town-Jock not want to pressure Rels? How did you arrive at Shockey vs. the other candidates? On April 05 2020 21:15 Jockmcplop wrote: So far my town reads are vivax and bloody and I also wouldn't lynch rayn, or probably chez. Vivax I already explained, he just has that spark when he's trying to solve, and you can see it here. This is a meta read though so its always a chance that this is the game where scum Vivax changes his meta. He's probably town though. Bloody keeps saying things that I'm thinking and although that's fakeable so early in the game, I find it far more likely that he sees the game similarly to me because he's town. I wouldn't lynch rayn here because he *seems* townie, but historically I can't read rayn for shit so I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt really. I'll filter him in a minute and see if anything jumps out. I like the long post alot. Chez I wouldn't lynch also because I can't read him. He's very entertaining though so best keep him alive. Everyone else can die until we find scum, probably in the following order, scummiest first: haphauli - Not really much to say other than I agree with bloody and rayn but he needs to come and be town or he gets lynched. Rels Nothing. Shockeyy Need to see more from shockeyy but he seems a bit too laid back if you know what i mean. Almost like he can't be bothered. Said he wants to have more interactions with other people so I want to see what happens if he does. Trfel I have explained. He responded okay to pressure but I still think his case on rayn was poor and he pulled out the 'trying to get people talking' line that mafia loves. I'm trying to avoid tunnelling on him though because I've done that before when he was town. So yeah my two biggest scumreads have barely posted. I guess that shows where I am in this game at the moment. In addition, the "order of scumminess" itself leads to some extra questions about your vote on Shockey. Given this list, Rels is #2. It is literally impossible to tell anything about Rels' alignment given zero posting. Rels is null in the purest sense of it. This would imply that Shockeyy and Trefel are slightly above-null, but you chose to place a vote on Shockeyy anyway. | ||
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