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On April 06 2020 04:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Yo Jock, wtf was were those last like 2-3 posts by you.
What happened in your brain that could possibly lead your mind into doing the shit you just did.
Settle down there bloody.
There was zero point in voting for either hap or rels at that particular point in the game. There was already pressure on hap coming from rayn and others so a pressure vote there was redundant, rels will probably get replaced if he doesn't show up and play, and I had already said in my reads list i wanted to see more from shockeyy.
Interesting that hap turned up, read the thread and put his vote on me... It looks very much like just going with thread sentiment mixed with a healthy dose of self preservation.
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On April 06 2020 01:39 Hapahauli wrote:@ JockShow nested quote +On April 05 2020 22:42 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 05 2020 22:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2020 22:37 Jockmcplop wrote:
You can do better than that rayn lol.
Ask yourself this, what purpose does me voting for rels or hap serve town right now?
I really don't want to have explain every little thing. I asked and i got a conclusion of "why would you vote for outside of your top 2 scumreads in a game where there is 2 scum?". Doesnt really matter who plays or who is playing or not. That's an absolutely terrible conclusion to come to. It would make sense ONLY if you believe that the only reason to vote for someone is to kill them. "Pressure votes" are certainly valid. Why does town-Jock not want to pressure his top scumread ("mafia-hapa") with a vote? Why does town-Jock not want to pressure Rels? How did you arrive at Shockey vs. the other candidates? Show nested quote +On April 05 2020 21:15 Jockmcplop wrote:
So far my town reads are vivax and bloody and I also wouldn't lynch rayn, or probably chez.
Vivax I already explained, he just has that spark when he's trying to solve, and you can see it here. This is a meta read though so its always a chance that this is the game where scum Vivax changes his meta. He's probably town though.
Bloody keeps saying things that I'm thinking and although that's fakeable so early in the game, I find it far more likely that he sees the game similarly to me because he's town.
I wouldn't lynch rayn here because he *seems* townie, but historically I can't read rayn for shit so I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt really. I'll filter him in a minute and see if anything jumps out. I like the long post alot.
Chez I wouldn't lynch also because I can't read him. He's very entertaining though so best keep him alive.
Everyone else can die until we find scum, probably in the following order, scummiest first:
haphauli - Not really much to say other than I agree with bloody and rayn but he needs to come and be town or he gets lynched.
Rels Nothing.
Shockeyy Need to see more from shockeyy but he seems a bit too laid back if you know what i mean. Almost like he can't be bothered. Said he wants to have more interactions with other people so I want to see what happens if he does.
Trfel I have explained. He responded okay to pressure but I still think his case on rayn was poor and he pulled out the 'trying to get people talking' line that mafia loves. I'm trying to avoid tunnelling on him though because I've done that before when he was town.
So yeah my two biggest scumreads have barely posted. I guess that shows where I am in this game at the moment.
In addition, the "order of scumminess" itself leads to some extra questions about your vote on Shockey. Given this list, Rels is #2. It is literally impossible to tell anything about Rels' alignment given zero posting. Rels is null in the purest sense of it. This would imply that Shockeyy and Trefel are slightly above-null, but you chose to place a vote on Shockeyy anyway.
Question 1 i already answered above.
I disagree with your assessment of rels being 'pure null'.
Unfortunately that ignores a huge amount of information in the thread. Reads are relative and happen relatively to each other. Someone with zero posts can be null, but they can be a scumread depending on what's happening in the thread.
Given the look of the thread, the low number of posts, and the fact that some solving is happening most of the time when people are in the thread, its logical to think that the mafia is more likely to be hiding in the low/zero poster category. In addition to this, i'm struggling to come up with solid scumreads on the people who are posting (until you turned up and started posting), so the low/zero posters are where I'm looking mostly.
You could just ignore all that information and go simplify it down to 'zero posts = pure null' but doing so would infer to me that you have some reason to ignore the rest of what's happened in the thread...
Shockeyy is not a 'slight townread' at all. I need to see more from shockeyy but I'm fine leaving my vote there if I don't.
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You didn't answer my question :'(
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On April 06 2020 19:12 Trfel wrote:
You didn't answer my question :'(
Sorry I missed it.
Hapahauli's entrance was bad. I agreed with bloody's case on him basically. He seemed like he was just asking random questions to be involved without actually caring about the answers.
Now I scumread him more because of the way he came back and instantly jumped on the back of what rayn was saying about me, which looks like a self-preservation move, using thread sentiment to feign aggression against the obvious target.
I still want to see more from shockeyy though.
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I have no freaking clue  I could see you guys being right and Hapahauli being mafia, I could even more easily see Jockmcplop being town, but really it would just be a trust vote because I don't fully understand it Gonna try and sleep and worry about it in the morning.
Raynpelikoneet, would you mind explaining why Hapahauli's scumread on BloodyC0bbler is so bad?
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On April 06 2020 19:22 Jockmcplop wrote:Sorry I missed it. Hapahauli's entrance was bad. I agreed with bloody's case on him basically. He seemed like he was just asking random questions to be involved without actually caring about the answers. Now I scumread him more because of the way he came back and instantly jumped on the back of what rayn was saying about me, which looks like a self-preservation move, using thread sentiment to feign aggression against the obvious target. I still want to see more from shockeyy though. Thanks for answering, I appreciate it.
I dunno if you looked in my "Notes" spoiler, but what I'm getting at is: you were present in the thread when BloodyC0bbler posted about Hapahauli. You were there for his early posts and didn't seem to find them interesting yourself. But it was only after raynpelikoneet posted about Hapahauli that you said you scumread him. If you agreed with BloodyC0bbler's case, why didn't you say so at the time?
To me it feels like you saw the wagon gaining support and only then jumped on. Unless there is something I am missing?
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On April 06 2020 19:35 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2020 19:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 06 2020 19:12 Trfel wrote:
You didn't answer my question :'( Sorry I missed it. Hapahauli's entrance was bad. I agreed with bloody's case on him basically. He seemed like he was just asking random questions to be involved without actually caring about the answers. Now I scumread him more because of the way he came back and instantly jumped on the back of what rayn was saying about me, which looks like a self-preservation move, using thread sentiment to feign aggression against the obvious target. I still want to see more from shockeyy though. Thanks for answering, I appreciate it. I dunno if you looked in my "Notes" spoiler, but what I'm getting at is: you were present in the thread when BloodyC0bbler posted about Hapahauli. You were there for his early posts and didn't seem to find them interesting yourself. But it was only after raynpelikoneet posted about Hapahauli that you said you scumread him. If you agreed with BloodyC0bbler's case, why didn't you say so at the time? To me it feels like you saw the wagon gaining support and only then jumped on. Unless there is something I am missing?
There's nothing really to say about bloody's case on hap other than 'I agree'. There's no conversation to be had about that, and I was busy in the thread speaking to you about other stuff at that time.
I agree with plenty of stuff people say in the thread but I don't always make a point of posting about it. If hap had done more at that time I would have had reason to to go analyze his posts or respond to bloody with my own opinions about it but he hadn't and so I don't see the point in posting +1s or 'i agree' or something like that.
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On April 06 2020 19:35 Trfel wrote:
To me it feels like you saw the wagon gaining support and only then jumped on. Unless there is something I am missing?
I can see how it would look like that. I would say that also applies to hap's return to the thread and his subsequent vote for me.
The difference being that hap was under pressure at the time and I wasn't, and also that when I made my reads list the only decent case in the thread was against hap.
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On April 06 2020 19:41 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2020 19:35 Trfel wrote:On April 06 2020 19:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 06 2020 19:12 Trfel wrote:
You didn't answer my question :'( Sorry I missed it. Hapahauli's entrance was bad. I agreed with bloody's case on him basically. He seemed like he was just asking random questions to be involved without actually caring about the answers. Now I scumread him more because of the way he came back and instantly jumped on the back of what rayn was saying about me, which looks like a self-preservation move, using thread sentiment to feign aggression against the obvious target. I still want to see more from shockeyy though. Thanks for answering, I appreciate it. I dunno if you looked in my "Notes" spoiler, but what I'm getting at is: you were present in the thread when BloodyC0bbler posted about Hapahauli. You were there for his early posts and didn't seem to find them interesting yourself. But it was only after raynpelikoneet posted about Hapahauli that you said you scumread him. If you agreed with BloodyC0bbler's case, why didn't you say so at the time? To me it feels like you saw the wagon gaining support and only then jumped on. Unless there is something I am missing? There's nothing really to say about bloody's case on hap other than 'I agree'. There's no conversation to be had about that, and I was busy in the thread speaking to you about other stuff at that time. I agree with plenty of stuff people say in the thread but I don't always make a point of posting about it. If hap had done more at that time I would have had reason to to go analyze his posts or respond to bloody with my own opinions about it but he hadn't and so I don't see the point in posting +1s or 'i agree' or something like that. Hm, I guess that makes some sense. Except we wrapped up our conversation before BloodyC0bbler posted on Hapahauli, but it's a small detail.
It's this weird thing in mafia where everything I know about the game tells me Jockmcplop is mafia, but I am also so bad at the game I could be completely wrong Gonna be stupid and look at a Jockmcplop town game for him saying "I agree" or an equivalent...
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On April 06 2020 19:46 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2020 19:35 Trfel wrote:
To me it feels like you saw the wagon gaining support and only then jumped on. Unless there is something I am missing? I can see how it would look like that. I would say that also applies to hap's return to the thread and his subsequent vote for me. The difference being that hap was under pressure at the time and I wasn't, and also that when I made my reads list the only decent case in the thread was against hap. Sorry to keep pestering you, but I don't understand the second paragraph. Honest curiosity about what you are saying.
What does being under pressure matter for this? Like why is that difference alignment indicative? And what does the last sentence mean, that you have to agree with it because it's a decent case, or that Hapahauli had no decent case on you to agree with? I think I'm just missing your intention with those sentences, sorry.
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On April 06 2020 20:01 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2020 19:46 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 06 2020 19:35 Trfel wrote:
To me it feels like you saw the wagon gaining support and only then jumped on. Unless there is something I am missing? I can see how it would look like that. I would say that also applies to hap's return to the thread and his subsequent vote for me. The difference being that hap was under pressure at the time and I wasn't, and also that when I made my reads list the only decent case in the thread was against hap. Sorry to keep pestering you, but I don't understand the second paragraph. Honest curiosity about what you are saying. What does being under pressure matter for this? Like why is that difference alignment indicative? And what does the last sentence mean, that you have to agree with it because it's a decent case, or that Hapahauli had no decent case on you to agree with? I think I'm just missing your intention with those sentences, sorry.
If you're under pressure you need to post reads and figure out a way to survive. Hapahauli has worked out his best way to survive.
My read on hap was based on the information available in the thread, that's why i scumread him, because the best case in the thread was about hapahauli. Hapahauli's reason for scumreading me was survival.
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On April 06 2020 04:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Yo Jock, wtf was were those last like 2-3 posts by you.
What happened in your brain that could possibly lead your mind into doing the shit you just did.
Two or three? Why do you think his posts were so bad? Which ones of those?
That's a pretty shady post for someone who said he likes commitment.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2020 22:19 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2020 22:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Maybe i am just bad but i don't really understand you right now because you seem to be saying Trfel is not mafia but your vote is still on him? I'm not saying that. That one or two sentences he posted made me think town, but because of his tone and the way interacting with him felt to me he's a scumlean. Its not that hard to understand tbh and I said the same thing a few posts up. My vote was only still on trfel because i hadn't moved it yet.
##unvote
##vote: shockeyy On April 05 2020 22:37 Jockmcplop wrote:
You can do better than that rayn lol.
Ask yourself this, what purpose does me voting for rels or hap serve town right now?
I really don't want to have explain every little thing. On April 05 2020 22:42 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2020 22:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2020 22:37 Jockmcplop wrote:
You can do better than that rayn lol.
Ask yourself this, what purpose does me voting for rels or hap serve town right now?
I really don't want to have explain every little thing. I asked and i got a conclusion of "why would you vote for outside of your top 2 scumreads in a game where there is 2 scum?". Doesnt really matter who plays or who is playing or not. That's an absolutely terrible conclusion to come to. It would make sense ONLY if you believe that the only reason to vote for someone is to kill them.
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On April 06 2020 20:08 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2020 20:01 Trfel wrote:On April 06 2020 19:46 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 06 2020 19:35 Trfel wrote:
To me it feels like you saw the wagon gaining support and only then jumped on. Unless there is something I am missing? I can see how it would look like that. I would say that also applies to hap's return to the thread and his subsequent vote for me. The difference being that hap was under pressure at the time and I wasn't, and also that when I made my reads list the only decent case in the thread was against hap. Sorry to keep pestering you, but I don't understand the second paragraph. Honest curiosity about what you are saying. What does being under pressure matter for this? Like why is that difference alignment indicative? And what does the last sentence mean, that you have to agree with it because it's a decent case, or that Hapahauli had no decent case on you to agree with? I think I'm just missing your intention with those sentences, sorry. If you're under pressure you need to post reads and figure out a way to survive. Hapahauli has worked out his best way to survive. My read on hap was based on the information available in the thread, that's why i scumread him, because the best case in the thread was about hapahauli. Hapahauli's reason for scumreading me was survival. Fair enough, I appreciate you humoring me. I don't know if there is anything else you can help me with currently, I just need to think about it and figure things out. And sleep. Maybe in reverse order.
My meta check came back inconclusive, I didn't find what I was looking for (to confirm or reject it) but I did see a ton of original thought. Going to reread Jockmcplop's filter and try to look at the big picture instead of the small details.
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Looking at the big picture... It just feels to me like Jockmcplop isn't doing anything. I don't see a direction or creativity.
He questioned me for a while and ended up reading me as somewhat suspicious, sure. But he hasn't really followed that up. Instead he followed other to vote for Hapahauli. And is scumreading Rels and ShoCkeyy.
Honestly it's kinda a boring filter. And that makes me think Jockmcplop is mafia. But I don't want to tunnel, and I really need sleep So I'll try and sleep and re-evaluate in the morning.
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On April 05 2020 23:17 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2020 23:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2020 23:07 Hapahauli wrote:
Typically, a town mindset is "I think you are scum, therefore I will convince others to vote for you."
Let's say this is the case considering every player. How did you show this mindset in your first three posts of the game? My posts have fundamentally different motivations than Jockey. For one, I don't consider Shockey or Trefel scum-reads. I consider them lynchbait. There's something about their posting that triggers my "gut", and I'd rather try to engage with them early-game and/or think aloud in the thread a bit. Had the thread not kicked up while I was fast asleep, I probably would have continued trying to get them to talk a bit more and open up. Jockey is instead directly scumreading Trefel.
This post triggers me massively.
I have spent the entire game trying to get both trfel and shockeyy talking. That, and talking to rayn, is basically all I have done.
I have been directly interacting with trfel for basically the entire game and my vote on shockeyy is an attempt to get him talking.
Scumreading people and picking out the faults in their posts is a fantastic way to get them talking and it generally works (it worked well with trfel).
This looks like hapa just grasping at straws trying to find 'original' ways to verbalise his convenient scum read of me.
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I'm getting less scummy feelings about trfel as the game goes on. He just feels more townie than he did at the beginning of the game.
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I do kinda like hapa's case on BC though even though I still townread BC.
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And I actually kinda like that Jockmcplop post. Though, didn't you say mafia love to say they're trying to get people talking? 
I don't know anything
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Shockeyy has still done fuck all and is lynchable for me.
Even on the chance that Jock is mafia it doesn't feel right to me not to lynch Shockeyy over him here after he said 7 hours ago he was catching up.
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On April 06 2020 20:41 Trfel wrote:And I actually kinda like that Jockmcplop post. Though, didn't you say mafia love to say they're trying to get people talking? I don't know anything
Yes I did say that haha.
It was a different context though, I wasn't defending my posts by saying that, and the fact that I was trying to get people talking should be really obvious by the way i interacted with you and then downgraded my scumread of you slightly because of the way you responded, and by my pressure vote on shockeyy.
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On April 06 2020 20:42 Vivax wrote:
Shockeyy has still done fuck all and is lynchable for me.
Even on the chance that Jock is mafia it doesn't feel right to me not to lynch Shockeyy over him here after he said 7 hours ago he was catching up. I could be on board with this too. Rels will likely be modkilled for not voting if he doesn't return, so he'd be a bad option.
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EPT
