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haha its a funny ban at least + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2016 10:04 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 08:45 IAmWithStupid wrote:On June 30 2016 00:21 LDaVinci wrote:
Is there any way you guys can perma ban the Russian guy on the top whose post seems to be very offensive toward women ?
Unless "quality wife material" is not offensive in english/american then I have a problem of language barrier.
Unless talking about a StarCraft player only as wife potential has suddenly become perfectly fine.
The post has been reported already probably by dozens of people. I, as a guy, find it offensive. I can imagine for the players. Lol, triggered! What if I told you, I don't even play StarCraft, but I love watching it. It is my passion. On the other note, I really love cooking, it is my second passion and I see no problem being in the kitchen (yet another offensive joke, if you know what I mean). If my wife was a SC player and I could make some delicious meal for her while she is playing and then, just for example, watch Code S together, I would call it a big success in life. I would be happy. What is offensive in that?! Chill, mate! *adjusts glasses* Okay listen here you cis male scum, saying things like "wife material" means that you are qualifying the woman in regards to her value as a mate for a man, implying that she has no value if she were not "wife material" and that only a thirsty male such as yourself can determine whether or not she is worthy of your attention which by the way no one asked for, also what if the "wife" you are looking at is a lesbian or trans or asexual or sexually fluid? *scoff* How dare you push your black-and-white zero-sum worldview of sexuality on unsuspecting innocent women simply because of the gender they were born with, heellloooo this is 2016. Go read a book you ignorant misogynist! DOWN WITH MEN! ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wnIaRyJ.gif) User was temp banned for this post.
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Do we get a replace or a modkill?
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I thought maybe he can create a smurf for rest of the game?
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I was allowed to finish the game and possibly other obligations so I'm still in here. Thnx fam.
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On June 30 2016 12:51 Damdred wrote:
Actually sk, can you explain in greater detail why you went
Damdred lock scum-only lynching damdred-Shenanigan onto jean.
While I appreciate the sentiment especially silly since I thinknive been Towny. Why was it so bad you think for him to vote me there? What caused your read change on me?
I know you partially answered already but just indulge me.
Alright. So my hardcore scumread on you was based on two main aspects: defending emperor (cuz emperor getting shot is a shock to mafia) and your play with Arantis with all the reasons I previously posted. As the game progressed, Art defended in a very towny way so i dropped him. You however were still trying to push TT as your only excuse which looked very scummy to me, plus when emp flipped and my Art read dropped I thought I caught scum for real.
Now towards end of 1st half of D2, you made few very good posts including this:
On June 29 2016 04:41 Damdred wrote:
I don't think I'll escape the Lynch today and for the re order n this situation I would just concede, it's way to bm to waste everyone's time when I just can't win anyway.
Anyway jealous case is actually bad.
1) Early weak reads as he calls it is a staple of my game, I'm a huge tone and gut reader early usually these takes some form of semblance as the game progresses.
You can see an example of this in almost any of the 50 games I've played in the database. Like this is just super easy to defend against. It's just something I do and something I'm really successful with.
And generally besides with ec I've been right this game
2) I think 3/4 of the game made a baseless push for mayor this is really a non point. Really there as 6-7 people who wanted it. Doesn't make anyone scum.
3) Art and I butt heads wanted to head that off he works better without pressure as town. I generally catch him n1 as scum anyway. As for chez he was just really Towny for him, and idk why an alliance with chez would be good anyway? I just enjoy he guy. Really doesn't make anyone scum and is a narrative you are trying to force.
4) As for hypocrisy you would have to point them out tbh, me and tt went back and forth about hypocrisy which ended in my mind pretty amicably during the night and a funny gif during d1. Though flip flopping doesn't make anyone scum, generally only town flip flop super fast and care free. It's part of the problem with no information vs all info.
5)Don't think I defended moose as I said before just gave him a d1 pass as is the general policy I use and a few others use on him as well. As for ec well I ended up making a bad read because I read to much into paranoia. It happens it sucks we all are wrong sooner or later.
Honestly the case is just a myriad of my posts that are plastered together to fill a narrative that I m scum, many are missing direct context of the thread and lacks clear responses by players that could influence the discussion.
A lot of it also is painting me in a scummy light just to do so a lot of it also doesn't make anyone scum.
Overall the case is poor and I see it coming from scum more than town.
this was just after Jeal's big ass post so I thought you defended in such a town fashion here. That being said I kept going, hoping someone would jump on the boat for no reason at all. Then, Jean did after a suite of non-conclusive posts none of which showed a clear target.
I went back to re-read a lot today, checked emp and Moosys interactions and whole of D2. I don't think he's scum anymore.
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I can't deny that he played well in D2. However that is pretty WIFOM for me because it could just be a good player under pressure trying to go down the list of "What would a townie do in my case?" or it could be an actual townie under false pressure. The main problem I have is that if Damdred isn't scum, then who is?
I don't think TT is, as of now. I think that the cases on Jean and Superbia are similar from what I've read so far, so that is a confusing ordeal because if one of them is scum then either one of them is playing an incredible scum or one of them is playing a bad town. I think we can assume the former to be true. Superbia has shown himself to be a clever player in both games so far; Jean has shown himself as a much more transparent and open player. If I had to decide between the two of them, I'd go with Superbia. However, I'd really need to dig in his filter to find any evidence to support this inclination because from the D1 filter read I did on him and what I recall from N1/D2, I haven't seen anything overly scummy from him. This is now on my to-do list.
Artanis was my only other pick besides Chezinu. Why? Perhaps there is more than "meta" behind his townreads on people. If Damdred were to get lynched yesterday and he made that long and almost exceedingly townie-toned post about why Damdred would be town, then he would get a lot of credit and whoever pushed Damdred might be in the spotlight. This is the perfect scenario for scum - divide the town between the people who wagoned Damdred and those that did not, with him being the leader of the "did not" party. Of course, only scum or cop would know for certain that Damdred is not scum. If Artanis was scum, it'd be very wise of him to counter-argue a strong case that I built against Damdred with "meta" and nice formatting to basically say "Damdred can't be scum, he is super town," and in this scenario WHEN and not IF Damdred flipped town, Artanis could use this as leverage as both a case against anyone who voted for him (especially me) and as a defense against anyone who questions him ("But if I was scum, wouldn't it make sense for me to allow town to mislynch Damdred?"). This is all circumstantial and by no means confirmed; I still need to lynch Damdred to see how it plays out, but if he does flip green I want everyone to be aware of this possibility.
So, Skynx, who to you is scum then?
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On June 30 2016 12:56 Damdred wrote:
I wonder also how long jealous is banned for?
Anyway his refusal to really take part in the Lynch was a bit meh. Will have to wait a bit to see though
What's "meh" about sticking to the best case that has been presented against anyone so far? The case against Jean boiled down to "Wouldn't that be an epic bus and thus an epic win for town if we nailed him?" The case against Chezinu was "He's uncharacteristically AFK, he ain't done shit." The case on you involved me digging, citing, and analyzing your filter for 5 pages in a transparent and manner, with other people supporting my analysis. Why would I switch to a flimsy Chezinu read when my own read on you had far more substance?
I understand that as my target you can't be expected to stay objective, but come on now. At least present it in a different way if you're going to bring it up at all.
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Also, going to give forward notice right now - I have two tests today and a ton of work to do, and tomorrow I am moving out of my current residence, so as you can imagine I will not be very active nor have internet at all the majority of the time henceforth. I will probably be able to read things on my phone during cigarette breaks but I doubt I will contribute much.
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On June 30 2016 20:35 Jealous wrote:
I can't deny that he played well in D2. However that is pretty WIFOM for me because it could just be a good player under pressure trying to go down the list of "What would a townie do in my case?" or it could be an actual townie under false pressure. The main problem I have is that if Damdred isn't scum, then who is?
I don't think TT is, as of now. I think that the cases on Jean and Superbia are similar from what I've read so far, so that is a confusing ordeal because if one of them is scum then either one of them is playing an incredible scum or one of them is playing a bad town. I think we can assume the former to be true. Superbia has shown himself to be a clever player in both games so far; Jean has shown himself as a much more transparent and open player. If I had to decide between the two of them, I'd go with Superbia. However, I'd really need to dig in his filter to find any evidence to support this inclination because from the D1 filter read I did on him and what I recall from N1/D2, I haven't seen anything overly scummy from him. This is now on my to-do list.
Artanis was my only other pick besides Chezinu. Why? Perhaps there is more than "meta" behind his townreads on people. If Damdred were to get lynched yesterday and he made that long and almost exceedingly townie-toned post about why Damdred would be town, then he would get a lot of credit and whoever pushed Damdred might be in the spotlight. This is the perfect scenario for scum - divide the town between the people who wagoned Damdred and those that did not, with him being the leader of the "did not" party. Of course, only scum or cop would know for certain that Damdred is not scum. If Artanis was scum, it'd be very wise of him to counter-argue a strong case that I built against Damdred with "meta" and nice formatting to basically say "Damdred can't be scum, he is super town," and in this scenario WHEN and not IF Damdred flipped town, Artanis could use this as leverage as both a case against anyone who voted for him (especially me) and as a defense against anyone who questions him ("But if I was scum, wouldn't it make sense for me to allow town to mislynch Damdred?"). This is all circumstantial and by no means confirmed; I still need to lynch Damdred to see how it plays out, but if he does flip green I want everyone to be aware of this possibility.
So, Skynx, who to you is scum then?
So what you're saying is you don't believe I can have as strong a townread on Damdred as I say, therefore I must have TMI? I guess that's a roundabout compliment in a way.
I know you despise meta, but take a little look into my previously played games, please. I have never ever tried this hard as mafia under suspicion, let ALONE when the rest of my team died early. If I was in a team with MD and EC (and I mean no offense to them) I would've just given up on D1 and let the lynch wash over me.
I would not end up having the longest filter in the game.
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I also rolled scum in the last two games I played. It just.. would never happen that I'd be this motivated in this game. Never.
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Anyway not gonna talk reads until EoN to prevent NK WIFOM.
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On June 30 2016 21:18 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 20:35 Jealous wrote:
I can't deny that he played well in D2. However that is pretty WIFOM for me because it could just be a good player under pressure trying to go down the list of "What would a townie do in my case?" or it could be an actual townie under false pressure. The main problem I have is that if Damdred isn't scum, then who is?
I don't think TT is, as of now. I think that the cases on Jean and Superbia are similar from what I've read so far, so that is a confusing ordeal because if one of them is scum then either one of them is playing an incredible scum or one of them is playing a bad town. I think we can assume the former to be true. Superbia has shown himself to be a clever player in both games so far; Jean has shown himself as a much more transparent and open player. If I had to decide between the two of them, I'd go with Superbia. However, I'd really need to dig in his filter to find any evidence to support this inclination because from the D1 filter read I did on him and what I recall from N1/D2, I haven't seen anything overly scummy from him. This is now on my to-do list.
Artanis was my only other pick besides Chezinu. Why? Perhaps there is more than "meta" behind his townreads on people. If Damdred were to get lynched yesterday and he made that long and almost exceedingly townie-toned post about why Damdred would be town, then he would get a lot of credit and whoever pushed Damdred might be in the spotlight. This is the perfect scenario for scum - divide the town between the people who wagoned Damdred and those that did not, with him being the leader of the "did not" party. Of course, only scum or cop would know for certain that Damdred is not scum. If Artanis was scum, it'd be very wise of him to counter-argue a strong case that I built against Damdred with "meta" and nice formatting to basically say "Damdred can't be scum, he is super town," and in this scenario WHEN and not IF Damdred flipped town, Artanis could use this as leverage as both a case against anyone who voted for him (especially me) and as a defense against anyone who questions him ("But if I was scum, wouldn't it make sense for me to allow town to mislynch Damdred?"). This is all circumstantial and by no means confirmed; I still need to lynch Damdred to see how it plays out, but if he does flip green I want everyone to be aware of this possibility.
So, Skynx, who to you is scum then? So what you're saying is you don't believe I can have as strong a townread on Damdred as I say, therefore I must have TMI? I guess that's a roundabout compliment in a way. I know you despise meta, but take a little look into my previously played games, please. I have never ever tried this hard as mafia under suspicion, let ALONE when the rest of my team died early. If I was in a team with MD and EC (and I mean no offense to them) I would've just given up on D1 and let the lynch wash over me. I would not end up having the longest filter in the game.
No, I'm saying that your townread on Damdred might truly be valid in your eyes, or you might just be trying to take a stance on him that automatically excludes the people who don't have your experience with him. Essentially you are appealing to a certain subset of the town population and excluding the other, forcing a divide between the two. Whether this is intentional or not, I don't feel comfortable taking your word as gospel on the matter without substantiated evidence within this game. Essentially, you are asking newbies to trust you, whom they do not know well as a player, about your analysis about Damdred's meta, whom they also do not know well. Try to see it from at least my perspective, as I cannot speak for others. If you came into a game that hinges on deception, would you feel comfortable trusting the guy saying "I've been here before, I know you're new but trust me on this one?" This isn't Diablo 2 where you can trust Deckard Cain and Akara to not stab you in the back, this is more like Skyrim where the NPC at the bar will poison your drink and leave you in some temple halfway across the world under the pretense of a drinking contest.
I'm not willing to devote hours into reading previous games just to catch up on meta reads, that's just not a reasonable request in my opinion. Also, doing what you say in order to trust you more is the same as a prisoner determining his own punishment; you're naturally going to propose the avenue that is most beneficial to you but not necessarily the one that is most objective. In other words, make a case for why Damdred can't be scum along the lines of what I did, within the confines of this game as opposed to an argument that has prior knowledge as a prerequisite.
Also, I know you said you don't want to discuss reads (can you explain why, by the way? I don't think I understand your explanation because newbie), so maybe this is more up your alley in terms of meta:
You and others have used the argument that "Damdred/X/Y would have already given up if they were scum in this scenario." What players do you think would not give up in this scenario? Would you give up?
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On June 30 2016 21:44 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 21:18 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 30 2016 20:35 Jealous wrote:
I can't deny that he played well in D2. However that is pretty WIFOM for me because it could just be a good player under pressure trying to go down the list of "What would a townie do in my case?" or it could be an actual townie under false pressure. The main problem I have is that if Damdred isn't scum, then who is?
I don't think TT is, as of now. I think that the cases on Jean and Superbia are similar from what I've read so far, so that is a confusing ordeal because if one of them is scum then either one of them is playing an incredible scum or one of them is playing a bad town. I think we can assume the former to be true. Superbia has shown himself to be a clever player in both games so far; Jean has shown himself as a much more transparent and open player. If I had to decide between the two of them, I'd go with Superbia. However, I'd really need to dig in his filter to find any evidence to support this inclination because from the D1 filter read I did on him and what I recall from N1/D2, I haven't seen anything overly scummy from him. This is now on my to-do list.
Artanis was my only other pick besides Chezinu. Why? Perhaps there is more than "meta" behind his townreads on people. If Damdred were to get lynched yesterday and he made that long and almost exceedingly townie-toned post about why Damdred would be town, then he would get a lot of credit and whoever pushed Damdred might be in the spotlight. This is the perfect scenario for scum - divide the town between the people who wagoned Damdred and those that did not, with him being the leader of the "did not" party. Of course, only scum or cop would know for certain that Damdred is not scum. If Artanis was scum, it'd be very wise of him to counter-argue a strong case that I built against Damdred with "meta" and nice formatting to basically say "Damdred can't be scum, he is super town," and in this scenario WHEN and not IF Damdred flipped town, Artanis could use this as leverage as both a case against anyone who voted for him (especially me) and as a defense against anyone who questions him ("But if I was scum, wouldn't it make sense for me to allow town to mislynch Damdred?"). This is all circumstantial and by no means confirmed; I still need to lynch Damdred to see how it plays out, but if he does flip green I want everyone to be aware of this possibility.
So, Skynx, who to you is scum then? So what you're saying is you don't believe I can have as strong a townread on Damdred as I say, therefore I must have TMI? I guess that's a roundabout compliment in a way. I know you despise meta, but take a little look into my previously played games, please. I have never ever tried this hard as mafia under suspicion, let ALONE when the rest of my team died early. If I was in a team with MD and EC (and I mean no offense to them) I would've just given up on D1 and let the lynch wash over me. I would not end up having the longest filter in the game. No, I'm saying that your townread on Damdred might truly be valid in your eyes, or you might just be trying to take a stance on him that automatically excludes the people who don't have your experience with him. Essentially you are appealing to a certain subset of the town population and excluding the other, forcing a divide between the two. Whether this is intentional or not, I don't feel comfortable taking your word as gospel on the matter without substantiated evidence within this game. Essentially, you are asking newbies to trust you, whom they do not know well as a player, about your analysis about Damdred's meta, whom they also do not know well. Try to see it from at least my perspective, as I cannot speak for others. If you came into a game that hinges on deception, would you feel comfortable trusting the guy saying "I've been here before, I know you're new but trust me on this one?" This isn't Diablo 2 where you can trust Deckard Cain and Akara to not stab you in the back, this is more like Skyrim where the NPC at the bar will poison your drink and leave you in some temple halfway across the world under the pretense of a drinking contest. I'm not willing to devote hours into reading previous games just to catch up on meta reads, that's just not a reasonable request in my opinion. Also, doing what you say in order to trust you more is the same as a prisoner determining his own punishment; you're naturally going to propose the avenue that is most beneficial to you but not necessarily the one that is most objective. In other words, make a case for why Damdred can't be scum along the lines of what I did, within the confines of this game as opposed to an argument that has prior knowledge as a prerequisite. Also, I know you said you don't want to discuss reads (can you explain why, by the way? I don't think I understand your explanation because newbie), so maybe this is more up your alley in terms of meta: You and others have used the argument that "Damdred/X/Y would have already given up if they were scum in this scenario." What players do you think would not give up in this scenario? Would you give up?
I understand what you're saying, but I do believe there's a certain level of trust that is required at some point. It is guaranteed that one between Damdred and I is town, so either my analysis is 100% sincere, or it is 100% correct from your perspective. The frustrating part to me is, I suppose, that his alignment is so blatantly obvious to me that it's difficult to spend a lot of time on disproving the reasons people bring up. It's kind of like a bunch of people claiming the moon is yellow because it emanates a yellow glow. I still know the moon is white, and I know the yellow glow emanating doesn't make it yellow, but to anyone who hasn't seen the moon before that very day, they may believe it to be true.
As for my personal analysis, I presume Damdred can confirm that, and probably others in the game as well. GlowingBear and Superbia SHOULD be able to, presuming they've paid enough attention.
As for not giving reads until the night deadline; I don't think it's clear who's getting shot. Posting my reads may result in an alteration of the night kills. Say no one suspects you and you're town and I come up with a big case on you; scum may have wanted to NK you, but they then decide to NK someone else as you turn into a viable mislynch. That's why I'd rather not go into reads right now.
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On June 30 2016 22:05 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 21:44 Jealous wrote:On June 30 2016 21:18 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 30 2016 20:35 Jealous wrote:
I can't deny that he played well in D2. However that is pretty WIFOM for me because it could just be a good player under pressure trying to go down the list of "What would a townie do in my case?" or it could be an actual townie under false pressure. The main problem I have is that if Damdred isn't scum, then who is?
I don't think TT is, as of now. I think that the cases on Jean and Superbia are similar from what I've read so far, so that is a confusing ordeal because if one of them is scum then either one of them is playing an incredible scum or one of them is playing a bad town. I think we can assume the former to be true. Superbia has shown himself to be a clever player in both games so far; Jean has shown himself as a much more transparent and open player. If I had to decide between the two of them, I'd go with Superbia. However, I'd really need to dig in his filter to find any evidence to support this inclination because from the D1 filter read I did on him and what I recall from N1/D2, I haven't seen anything overly scummy from him. This is now on my to-do list.
Artanis was my only other pick besides Chezinu. Why? Perhaps there is more than "meta" behind his townreads on people. If Damdred were to get lynched yesterday and he made that long and almost exceedingly townie-toned post about why Damdred would be town, then he would get a lot of credit and whoever pushed Damdred might be in the spotlight. This is the perfect scenario for scum - divide the town between the people who wagoned Damdred and those that did not, with him being the leader of the "did not" party. Of course, only scum or cop would know for certain that Damdred is not scum. If Artanis was scum, it'd be very wise of him to counter-argue a strong case that I built against Damdred with "meta" and nice formatting to basically say "Damdred can't be scum, he is super town," and in this scenario WHEN and not IF Damdred flipped town, Artanis could use this as leverage as both a case against anyone who voted for him (especially me) and as a defense against anyone who questions him ("But if I was scum, wouldn't it make sense for me to allow town to mislynch Damdred?"). This is all circumstantial and by no means confirmed; I still need to lynch Damdred to see how it plays out, but if he does flip green I want everyone to be aware of this possibility.
So, Skynx, who to you is scum then? So what you're saying is you don't believe I can have as strong a townread on Damdred as I say, therefore I must have TMI? I guess that's a roundabout compliment in a way. I know you despise meta, but take a little look into my previously played games, please. I have never ever tried this hard as mafia under suspicion, let ALONE when the rest of my team died early. If I was in a team with MD and EC (and I mean no offense to them) I would've just given up on D1 and let the lynch wash over me. I would not end up having the longest filter in the game. No, I'm saying that your townread on Damdred might truly be valid in your eyes, or you might just be trying to take a stance on him that automatically excludes the people who don't have your experience with him. Essentially you are appealing to a certain subset of the town population and excluding the other, forcing a divide between the two. Whether this is intentional or not, I don't feel comfortable taking your word as gospel on the matter without substantiated evidence within this game. Essentially, you are asking newbies to trust you, whom they do not know well as a player, about your analysis about Damdred's meta, whom they also do not know well. Try to see it from at least my perspective, as I cannot speak for others. If you came into a game that hinges on deception, would you feel comfortable trusting the guy saying "I've been here before, I know you're new but trust me on this one?" This isn't Diablo 2 where you can trust Deckard Cain and Akara to not stab you in the back, this is more like Skyrim where the NPC at the bar will poison your drink and leave you in some temple halfway across the world under the pretense of a drinking contest. I'm not willing to devote hours into reading previous games just to catch up on meta reads, that's just not a reasonable request in my opinion. Also, doing what you say in order to trust you more is the same as a prisoner determining his own punishment; you're naturally going to propose the avenue that is most beneficial to you but not necessarily the one that is most objective. In other words, make a case for why Damdred can't be scum along the lines of what I did, within the confines of this game as opposed to an argument that has prior knowledge as a prerequisite. Also, I know you said you don't want to discuss reads (can you explain why, by the way? I don't think I understand your explanation because newbie), so maybe this is more up your alley in terms of meta: You and others have used the argument that "Damdred/X/Y would have already given up if they were scum in this scenario." What players do you think would not give up in this scenario? Would you give up? I understand what you're saying, but I do believe there's a certain level of trust that is required at some point. It is guaranteed that one between Damdred and I is town, so either my analysis is 100% sincere, or it is 100% correct from your perspective. The frustrating part to me is, I suppose, that his alignment is so blatantly obvious to me that it's difficult to spend a lot of time on disproving the reasons people bring up. It's kind of like a bunch of people claiming the moon is yellow because it emanates a yellow glow. I still know the moon is white, and I know the yellow glow emanating doesn't make it yellow, but to anyone who hasn't seen the moon before that very day, they may believe it to be true. As for my personal analysis, I presume Damdred can confirm that, and probably others in the game as well. GlowingBear and Superbia SHOULD be able to, presuming they've paid enough attention. As for not giving reads until the night deadline; I don't think it's clear who's getting shot. Posting my reads may result in an alteration of the night kills. Say no one suspects you and you're town and I come up with a big case on you; scum may have wanted to NK you, but they then decide to NK someone else as you turn into a viable mislynch. That's why I'd rather not go into reads right now.
At first I thought this was a great metaphor and got me to understand your side of it completely. However, even though the moon is white the majority of the time, it is still yellow when it appears yellow, it is still red when it is red, it is still black when it is black. In reality, the moon has no color. Color is a subjective, human perspective. The moon merely reflects the light, angle of light, or lack of light shone onto it, and we attribute color to it based on the ways our eyes perceive a small portion of the light spectrum. Even a moon that in your experience of 27 days appears as one color, at least one day out of the lunar month it will be a different color. Replace day with game. In other words, I find your absolute lack of faith in Damdred's ability to change his play given the circumstances to be pretty complacent and potentially just as myopic as my unwillingness to see the things I've dug up as anything but scummy.
I see, that makes sense. I was going to pose a question to the town as a whole asking something along the lines of, "if the person you suspect as scum were to lynch anyone, who do you think it would be?" and I came to the same realization: anything said in response would simply be a confounding factor when the NK does come, so I didn't post that ^^
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On June 30 2016 22:19 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 22:05 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 30 2016 21:44 Jealous wrote:On June 30 2016 21:18 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 30 2016 20:35 Jealous wrote:
I can't deny that he played well in D2. However that is pretty WIFOM for me because it could just be a good player under pressure trying to go down the list of "What would a townie do in my case?" or it could be an actual townie under false pressure. The main problem I have is that if Damdred isn't scum, then who is?
I don't think TT is, as of now. I think that the cases on Jean and Superbia are similar from what I've read so far, so that is a confusing ordeal because if one of them is scum then either one of them is playing an incredible scum or one of them is playing a bad town. I think we can assume the former to be true. Superbia has shown himself to be a clever player in both games so far; Jean has shown himself as a much more transparent and open player. If I had to decide between the two of them, I'd go with Superbia. However, I'd really need to dig in his filter to find any evidence to support this inclination because from the D1 filter read I did on him and what I recall from N1/D2, I haven't seen anything overly scummy from him. This is now on my to-do list.
Artanis was my only other pick besides Chezinu. Why? Perhaps there is more than "meta" behind his townreads on people. If Damdred were to get lynched yesterday and he made that long and almost exceedingly townie-toned post about why Damdred would be town, then he would get a lot of credit and whoever pushed Damdred might be in the spotlight. This is the perfect scenario for scum - divide the town between the people who wagoned Damdred and those that did not, with him being the leader of the "did not" party. Of course, only scum or cop would know for certain that Damdred is not scum. If Artanis was scum, it'd be very wise of him to counter-argue a strong case that I built against Damdred with "meta" and nice formatting to basically say "Damdred can't be scum, he is super town," and in this scenario WHEN and not IF Damdred flipped town, Artanis could use this as leverage as both a case against anyone who voted for him (especially me) and as a defense against anyone who questions him ("But if I was scum, wouldn't it make sense for me to allow town to mislynch Damdred?"). This is all circumstantial and by no means confirmed; I still need to lynch Damdred to see how it plays out, but if he does flip green I want everyone to be aware of this possibility.
So, Skynx, who to you is scum then? So what you're saying is you don't believe I can have as strong a townread on Damdred as I say, therefore I must have TMI? I guess that's a roundabout compliment in a way. I know you despise meta, but take a little look into my previously played games, please. I have never ever tried this hard as mafia under suspicion, let ALONE when the rest of my team died early. If I was in a team with MD and EC (and I mean no offense to them) I would've just given up on D1 and let the lynch wash over me. I would not end up having the longest filter in the game. No, I'm saying that your townread on Damdred might truly be valid in your eyes, or you might just be trying to take a stance on him that automatically excludes the people who don't have your experience with him. Essentially you are appealing to a certain subset of the town population and excluding the other, forcing a divide between the two. Whether this is intentional or not, I don't feel comfortable taking your word as gospel on the matter without substantiated evidence within this game. Essentially, you are asking newbies to trust you, whom they do not know well as a player, about your analysis about Damdred's meta, whom they also do not know well. Try to see it from at least my perspective, as I cannot speak for others. If you came into a game that hinges on deception, would you feel comfortable trusting the guy saying "I've been here before, I know you're new but trust me on this one?" This isn't Diablo 2 where you can trust Deckard Cain and Akara to not stab you in the back, this is more like Skyrim where the NPC at the bar will poison your drink and leave you in some temple halfway across the world under the pretense of a drinking contest. I'm not willing to devote hours into reading previous games just to catch up on meta reads, that's just not a reasonable request in my opinion. Also, doing what you say in order to trust you more is the same as a prisoner determining his own punishment; you're naturally going to propose the avenue that is most beneficial to you but not necessarily the one that is most objective. In other words, make a case for why Damdred can't be scum along the lines of what I did, within the confines of this game as opposed to an argument that has prior knowledge as a prerequisite. Also, I know you said you don't want to discuss reads (can you explain why, by the way? I don't think I understand your explanation because newbie), so maybe this is more up your alley in terms of meta: You and others have used the argument that "Damdred/X/Y would have already given up if they were scum in this scenario." What players do you think would not give up in this scenario? Would you give up? I understand what you're saying, but I do believe there's a certain level of trust that is required at some point. It is guaranteed that one between Damdred and I is town, so either my analysis is 100% sincere, or it is 100% correct from your perspective. The frustrating part to me is, I suppose, that his alignment is so blatantly obvious to me that it's difficult to spend a lot of time on disproving the reasons people bring up. It's kind of like a bunch of people claiming the moon is yellow because it emanates a yellow glow. I still know the moon is white, and I know the yellow glow emanating doesn't make it yellow, but to anyone who hasn't seen the moon before that very day, they may believe it to be true. As for my personal analysis, I presume Damdred can confirm that, and probably others in the game as well. GlowingBear and Superbia SHOULD be able to, presuming they've paid enough attention. As for not giving reads until the night deadline; I don't think it's clear who's getting shot. Posting my reads may result in an alteration of the night kills. Say no one suspects you and you're town and I come up with a big case on you; scum may have wanted to NK you, but they then decide to NK someone else as you turn into a viable mislynch. That's why I'd rather not go into reads right now. At first I thought this was a great metaphor and got me to understand your side of it completely. However, even though the moon is white the majority of the time, it is still yellow when it appears yellow, it is still red when it is red, it is still black when it is black. In reality, the moon has no color. Color is a subjective, human perspective. The moon merely reflects the light, angle of light, or lack of light shone onto it, and we attribute color to it based on the ways our eyes perceive a small portion of the light spectrum. Even a moon that in your experience of 27 days appears as one color, at least one day out of the lunar month it will be a different color. Replace day with game. In other words, I find your absolute lack of faith in Damdred's ability to change his play given the circumstances to be pretty complacent and potentially just as myopic as my unwillingness to see the things I've dug up as anything but scummy. I see, that makes sense. I was going to pose a question to the town as a whole asking something along the lines of, "if the person you suspect as scum were to lynch anyone, who do you think it would be?" and I came to the same realization: anything said in response would simply be a confounding factor when the NK does come, so I didn't post that ^^
That the metaphor was inaccurate isn't as important as the point it intended to bring across. I believe Damdred's scum game is capable of a decent amount of things, but motivation in a position where it is neigh impossible to win with all the emotions that genuinely make sense (which is something he's really poor at as scum) are just not aspects that you can improve this greatly upon from one game to the next. I respect him as a player and I think he's great at mafia when unpressured or against people that don't know this aspect of his play, but I sincerely believe him to be extremely, extremely likely to be town.
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Besides, just imagine all the humble pie I'll have to eat if Damdred does end up being mafia.
My ego's at least half the size of JVJ so I wouldn't be so quick to be this confident.
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On June 30 2016 21:18 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 20:35 Jealous wrote:
I can't deny that he played well in D2. However that is pretty WIFOM for me because it could just be a good player under pressure trying to go down the list of "What would a townie do in my case?" or it could be an actual townie under false pressure. The main problem I have is that if Damdred isn't scum, then who is?
I don't think TT is, as of now. I think that the cases on Jean and Superbia are similar from what I've read so far, so that is a confusing ordeal because if one of them is scum then either one of them is playing an incredible scum or one of them is playing a bad town. I think we can assume the former to be true. Superbia has shown himself to be a clever player in both games so far; Jean has shown himself as a much more transparent and open player. If I had to decide between the two of them, I'd go with Superbia. However, I'd really need to dig in his filter to find any evidence to support this inclination because from the D1 filter read I did on him and what I recall from N1/D2, I haven't seen anything overly scummy from him. This is now on my to-do list.
Artanis was my only other pick besides Chezinu. Why? Perhaps there is more than "meta" behind his townreads on people. If Damdred were to get lynched yesterday and he made that long and almost exceedingly townie-toned post about why Damdred would be town, then he would get a lot of credit and whoever pushed Damdred might be in the spotlight. This is the perfect scenario for scum - divide the town between the people who wagoned Damdred and those that did not, with him being the leader of the "did not" party. Of course, only scum or cop would know for certain that Damdred is not scum. If Artanis was scum, it'd be very wise of him to counter-argue a strong case that I built against Damdred with "meta" and nice formatting to basically say "Damdred can't be scum, he is super town," and in this scenario WHEN and not IF Damdred flipped town, Artanis could use this as leverage as both a case against anyone who voted for him (especially me) and as a defense against anyone who questions him ("But if I was scum, wouldn't it make sense for me to allow town to mislynch Damdred?"). This is all circumstantial and by no means confirmed; I still need to lynch Damdred to see how it plays out, but if he does flip green I want everyone to be aware of this possibility.
So, Skynx, who to you is scum then? So what you're saying is you don't believe I can have as strong a townread on Damdred as I say, therefore I must have TMI? I guess that's a roundabout compliment in a way. I know you despise meta, but take a little look into my previously played games, please. I have never ever tried this hard as mafia under suspicion, let ALONE when the rest of my team died early. If I was in a team with MD and EC (and I mean no offense to them) I would've just given up on D1 and let the lynch wash over me. I would not end up having the longest filter in the game.
I have probably written more words than you. I just consolidate my posts.
There's probably a way to figure that out.
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On June 30 2016 23:04 Jean Valjean wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 21:18 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 30 2016 20:35 Jealous wrote:
I can't deny that he played well in D2. However that is pretty WIFOM for me because it could just be a good player under pressure trying to go down the list of "What would a townie do in my case?" or it could be an actual townie under false pressure. The main problem I have is that if Damdred isn't scum, then who is?
I don't think TT is, as of now. I think that the cases on Jean and Superbia are similar from what I've read so far, so that is a confusing ordeal because if one of them is scum then either one of them is playing an incredible scum or one of them is playing a bad town. I think we can assume the former to be true. Superbia has shown himself to be a clever player in both games so far; Jean has shown himself as a much more transparent and open player. If I had to decide between the two of them, I'd go with Superbia. However, I'd really need to dig in his filter to find any evidence to support this inclination because from the D1 filter read I did on him and what I recall from N1/D2, I haven't seen anything overly scummy from him. This is now on my to-do list.
Artanis was my only other pick besides Chezinu. Why? Perhaps there is more than "meta" behind his townreads on people. If Damdred were to get lynched yesterday and he made that long and almost exceedingly townie-toned post about why Damdred would be town, then he would get a lot of credit and whoever pushed Damdred might be in the spotlight. This is the perfect scenario for scum - divide the town between the people who wagoned Damdred and those that did not, with him being the leader of the "did not" party. Of course, only scum or cop would know for certain that Damdred is not scum. If Artanis was scum, it'd be very wise of him to counter-argue a strong case that I built against Damdred with "meta" and nice formatting to basically say "Damdred can't be scum, he is super town," and in this scenario WHEN and not IF Damdred flipped town, Artanis could use this as leverage as both a case against anyone who voted for him (especially me) and as a defense against anyone who questions him ("But if I was scum, wouldn't it make sense for me to allow town to mislynch Damdred?"). This is all circumstantial and by no means confirmed; I still need to lynch Damdred to see how it plays out, but if he does flip green I want everyone to be aware of this possibility.
So, Skynx, who to you is scum then? So what you're saying is you don't believe I can have as strong a townread on Damdred as I say, therefore I must have TMI? I guess that's a roundabout compliment in a way. I know you despise meta, but take a little look into my previously played games, please. I have never ever tried this hard as mafia under suspicion, let ALONE when the rest of my team died early. If I was in a team with MD and EC (and I mean no offense to them) I would've just given up on D1 and let the lynch wash over me. I would not end up having the longest filter in the game. I have probably written more words than you. I just consolidate my posts. There's probably a way to figure that out.
20.5k vs 27.2k words in my favour. Includes quotes though but it's the best I can do, and yes I did replace out the names and stuff.
I may have too much free time.
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What's wrong with you people. z_z
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Brevity is the soul of witmafia.
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EPT
