Newbie Student Mafia XI - Page 63

On June 13 2015 18:08 Rels wrote:
I went through batsnacks past games and I have two things to share with you all.

First thing


That's true. I found 3 games where I did something similar, all of them town. Posts in spoiler if you're curious.
+ Show Spoiler +

Second thing




That's not as extreme as he's saying, but it is true. In particular, look at the size of the filters of these two games. In both he got lynched D1. Can you guess in which one he was scum ?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/474082-imperial-mafia?user=batsnacks
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/469267-fantasy-football-mafia-mini-2?user=batsnacks

If you don't wanna play the guessing game: he has two times more post in the first game, where he was town.

Conclusion
By meta I don't think BS is mafia this game.

##Unvote

On June 14 2015 05:38 batsnacks wrote:


You don't understand. geript just claimed mafia.

Here is geript saying he will sheep Trfel's amazing case on Rels:
+ Show Spoiler +

Here is sulfurus's bold post defending Rels:
+ Show Spoiler +

Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing:
+ Show Spoiler +

Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels:
+ Show Spoiler +

On June 15 2015 05:12 batsnacks wrote:
Alright Rels is mafia. His read progression on sulfurus goes like this:

• First I voted sulfurus for voting me opportunistically. Rels responds to me saying that if it were anyone but sulfurus then he would consider this scummy, but since sulfurus voted opportunistically last game then it is not scummy.
  
  Rels wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

  If it was any other person I would have agree with you about voting opportunistically.
  But Sulfu played exactly like that last game.
  
  
• Rels posts a list post where sulfurus is a town lean.
  
  Rels wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

  Town lean
  Trfel
  Sulfu
  Oats
  ruxxar
  
  
• Rels repeats that if anyone but sulfurus had voted me the way that sulfurus did, he would consider it scummy. However since sulfurus voted SL and Breshke opportunistically last game as town, then he is not scum reading sulfurus for it.
  
  Rels wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

  Yeah I would have agreed if someone else voted you like that. But Sulfu did that day 1 last game. On Breshke and SL.
  
  
• Rels suddenly says he is suspicious of sulfurus for voting opportunistically, directly contradicting two posts he made earlier explaining that sulfurus voting opportunistically does not make him mafia since he did the same thing in his last game.
  
  Rels wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

  No idea who I want to lynch. Two of my three town reads are voting sulfurus. I'm suspicious of Sulfu for two reasons:
  - The "case" on KS on his first post doesn't exist
  - The vote on BS is opportunist
  
  
• Rels votes geript and says if the wagon on geript doesn't go anywhere, that he will be switching to sulfurus.
  
  Rels wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

  If nobody changes vote and I have to choose between the two wagons I'll vote Sulfu.
  
  ##Vote geript
  
  

---

Chronological order:
+ Show Spoiler +

On June 13 2015 22:42 Damdred wrote:
Yeah bats is a completely stupid lynch, here. (Never use this again bats is to smart a player)

If you look at bats last scum/town games you see a few things crop up.

1) as scum once it's clear that he is going to,be one of,l the leading wagons his care factor diminishes to a few posts randomly complaining without doing anything about it or pushing his own thoughts.

In comparison here he is pushing what he thinks explaining why he's town,and,not giving,up. I liked bats when I first read his filter. He keeps pushing the thread.

2) as scum, he has developed an ability to have weak scum reads to a point.

Here he has well reasoned or seemingly well reasoned reasons for calling people out.

3) resorts to trolling as scum when he's caught.

He's not doing this here.

Bats is town, besides meta. Biggest filter, most controversial figure d1. Okish reads.

Leave the bats alone

On June 14 2015 06:06 n00bKing wrote:

How is any of that supposed to be difficult to explain? Geript has at times thought Sulfurus looked scummy. And he has at times thought Rels looked scummy. Most recently, his vote has been on Rels, so that is presumably his top scum read.

You ask geript why Sulfurus would defend Rels if Sulfurus were scum. geript at this point participates in a discussion that PRE-ASSUMES Sulfurus is scum. And he hypothesizes that Sulfurus could be defending a Town player poorly. This would require him to be wrong about Rels being scum. I see nothing wrong with geript acknowledging the possibility that he could be wrong about Rels being scum, and answering a hypothetical question about why Sulfurus would act as he has if HE were scum.

This is almost as hollow as the reasoning Trfel used against Rels. Not quite as hollow. But almost.

On June 14 2015 04:16 n00bKing wrote:

Okay? We're waiting. Let's have a dialogue. Convince me that you're Town.

Again, I was very excited to see you follow through on your promise to destroy the thread, if you stayed in the vote lead. And the scummiest thing Rels has done this entire game is panic after that promise, and start reading your posts in other games so that he could manufacture a flimsy excuse to move his vote off of you.

As a Town player, I couldn't WAIT for you to blow up the thread. But if I were scum, that idea might be pretty concerning to me. And I might try to figure out a way to get you out of the vote lead, so you'll shut up.

Clicking the "Post" button a bunch of times does not mean you are making worthwhile contributions. You keep yapping about your long filter, but NOTHING kicks, fights, bites and screams more than a mafia player that is in vote trouble without there being concrete evidence behind it. Staring down the noose MIGHT spur an inactive Town player into action, but not nearly as much (or as consistently) as it spurs mafia players into action.

You talk like people are voting against you only because of your poor open, but that they aren't reassessing bases on the posts you've made since. I've read every post you've made. There isn't anything that counteracts your poor open. You've been told this by multiple players already, so it's not like I am blind to what those others see.

On June 13 2015 18:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
Did you see the quality of those posts though. Cause in this game, there is quantity but practically no quality.

On June 14 2015 03:12 Trfel wrote:
It makes him look active, and makes him look like he's doing stuff. Posts without purpose.
Hm, okay, I'll take a look at that game then.

---

Your first point is technically correct, but it doesn't mean anything. It's extremely easy for mafia!batsnacks to post this as scum. One good example of this is Onegu, who was known for a long time to only claim VT as town, and never as scum. Well, one game he did it as scum. If someone has a meta that "makes" them town, it's useless unless there's an actual reason why they can't do the same thing as scum.

As for the second point, again, the post quality is important, not just the quantity.

Damdred's post on batsnacks is really interesting, those are things that I didn't check. However, comparing the two games that Rels linked, I don't see batsnacks fitting Damdred's description that much. Notably because while he's always been a leading wagon, it's always been very close. Looking at Imperial Mafia (town!batsnacks), I noticed that batsnacks' filter at End of Day was extremely productive and focused, and I'm not seeing that from batsnacks this game. I'll take a look at batsnacks' scum reads now.

Why does this matter? He did something generally considered to be bad, he got lynched for it, and I'd really hope he didn't do the same thing in his next game.

Were his reasons for voting those people original, or sheeping others (even if not in the final vote)?

On June 14 2015 12:15 Damdred wrote:
Damdreds Late night Reads List:

Firstly i'm going to take out the wagons that ended up with 0 votes to start with, and also the scratched people presently. I'll dedicate a post later to talking about vote changes (maybe in this post on some people) to determine some alignments if I can.

Sulfurus (2): Kickstart, WaveOfShadow
Batsnacks (2): n00bKing, sulfurus,
geript (8): Rels, Oatsmaster, batsnacks, Trfel, Damdred, MoosyDoosy, ruXxar, scott31337
Rels (1): geript,

This is what we end up with (cleaned up version)

Sulfurus (2): Kickstart, WaveOfShadow
Batsnacks (2): n00bKing, sulfurus,
geript (8): Rels, Oatsmaster, batsnacks, Trfel, Damdred, MoosyDoosy, ruXxar, scott31337
Rels (1): geript,

First thing I do is color in Geript with a bold and a green since hes flipped to the thread.

Secondly since im not confirmed to the thread but to myself (go me) i'm putting myself as green. I'd rather not have to right out a town case currently for myself so just trust me for now.

Two easiest town reads are now colored in green for me.

Batsnacks I've covered pretty extensively in my earlier filter, if you want the longer case its in my filter go read it a bit. But to add on a bit, Bats made a decent point and pushed it. Thought he found a slip and pushed it, he led the lynch on Geript even fi he flipped town. Scum bats is really back seat he does try to cause confusion. However at this end of day he was really useful he was calm and acted really towny with how he went about the lynch. This guy might be the most town I've ever seen Bats be before, if he did this as scum i'm pretty impressed.

Trfel, is town also. Made some excellent points on Rel, but ended up sheeping Batsnacks around the same time I did. The posts that Trfel did make were some of the longer cases I thought were pretty good and factually sound. Though some people might disagree with them It hought they were really good and showed a clear understanding of what was going on. Also Trfel knows my kryptonite somewhat and how to abuse me in a thread without seeming scummy for it and chose to try to work with me and give me time instead of coming down hard on me. Its also partially a tone read and how the involvement in the thread is going. i'm pretty confident that Trfel is town here.


Sulfurus (2): Kickstart, WaveOfShadow
Batsnacks (2): n00bKing, sulfurus,
geript (8): Rels, Oatsmaster, batsnacks, Trfel, Damdred, MoosyDoosy, ruXxar, scott31337
Rels (1): geript,

Ruxxar is one of my scum leans currently. I won't take credit for the initial find of the post where he switched votes from bats to Geript. (Wave gets credit for pointing it out) He shows very little consistency with how his reads change and how he approaches the thread, for example when bats makes his push on Geript he showed very little suspicion for someone that was hard scum reading Bats and thought that he was the best lynch in the entire game. Also he gave kickstart a town lean for almost no reason when he was suspicious of him before. He also has expanded his filter with a lot of talk about speculation and about claims and how to handl blues etc. Overall I think hes decently scummy and should be lookd at harder.

WaveofShadow is another decent town lean currently. He shows genuine interest in figuring out peoples alignments, he pushes on people and is searching to find scum when he is here. One of the negatives I have is that sometimes he feels a little passive in the way that he does things at the same time. I know for instance he asked me several questions that I just didn't answer at the time and still haven't answered (I believe) and even though I've been in the thread with him he just hasn't cared. So he worries me a little bit but i'm generally paranoid of him also, plus he soft pushed geript a little bit.

Sulfurus (2): Kickstart, WaveOfShadow
Batsnacks (2): n00bKing, sulfurus,
geript (8): Rels, Oatsmaster, batsnacks, Trfel, Damdred, MoosyDoosy, ruXxar, scott31337
Rels (1): geript,

Moosy I think is town, I would look at him more later, and its mostly just a gut feeling. He feels really honest to me and just confused at points. I think hes town.

Tone read on scott, and his postings just feel like his towny self. Good direction I feel like at points.

I am going to end this here for now, I don't have the attention span to go through everything. I'll try to finish reads before the morning on the others. I'm still leaning scum on Rels and kickstarts activity is worrying and lack of real content compared to his other games.