Pregame Excuse: Going to be at Houston for Friday and Saturday coming home Sunday and will have limited access to a computer so if my activity drops off there that's why. Edit: This for next week
Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf. @Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf?
On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf. @Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf?
Being a smurf is not alignment indicative.
refusing to divulge relevant information sure is!
identity is a large part of mafia.
The you suggesting it every smurf who doesn't out their aka is scum which is flawed logic....
On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf. @Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf?
Being a smurf is not alignment indicative.
refusing to divulge relevant information sure is!
identity is a large part of mafia.
So do you think someone that has chosen to smurf is more likely to reveal who they are as town or mafia then?
I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town.
Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory.
It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour.
You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing.
Yeah I understand this but that doesn't make not revealing who you are to be alignment indicative. If someone has chosen to smurf they have chosen pre game that they probably don't want to reveal who they are. I feel like saying, reveal yourself or get lynched, is a waste because it depends on the player on how they will act so you can't really get much from that.
Also to talk about this now instead of when mafia will be trying to hunt roles. I think it is best in at least the first phase that a lot of the chosen powers are information type roles specifically scrying
I kinda dislike his pressure on FreezingFoot since FreezingFoot could be a smurf and him calling him out so early just seems like it's a preplanned motion from him regardless of his alignment so null.
On June 08 2015 08:35 LightningStrike wrote: So Breshke any thoughts on Wherebugsgo right now?
not really. Do you?
On June 08 2015 08:36 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:31 Breshke wrote: Hi
On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf. @Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf?
Being a smurf is not alignment indicative.
refusing to divulge relevant information sure is!
identity is a large part of mafia.
So do you think someone that has chosen to smurf is more likely to reveal who they are as town or mafia then?
I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town.
Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory.
It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour.
You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing.
Yeah I understand this but that doesn't make not revealing who you are to be alignment indicative. If someone has chosen to smurf they have chosen pre game that they probably don't want to reveal who they are. I feel like saying, reveal yourself or get lynched, is a waste because it depends on the player on how they will act so you can't really get much from that.
Also to talk about this now instead of when mafia will be trying to hunt roles. I think it is best in at least the first phase that a lot of the chosen powers are information type roles specifically scrying
I kinda dislike his pressure on FreezingFoot since FreezingFoot could be a smurf and him calling him out so early just seems like it's a preplanned motion from him regardless of his alignment so null.
When you say you dislike the pressure what do you mean? Do you think it is scummy? Not furthering the game? Could you expand on this?
I seems preplanned so it's null on that part but it did generate discussion although it's early in the game and not much going on outside the FreezingFoot stuff. I mean sure I would like to know his aka to do a meta read later on but the reason for people to smurf is they want to hide their identity so we can't use meta on them.
On June 08 2015 08:35 LightningStrike wrote: So Breshke any thoughts on Wherebugsgo right now?
not really. Do you?
On June 08 2015 08:36 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:31 Breshke wrote: Hi
On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf. @Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf?
Being a smurf is not alignment indicative.
refusing to divulge relevant information sure is!
identity is a large part of mafia.
So do you think someone that has chosen to smurf is more likely to reveal who they are as town or mafia then?
I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town.
Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory.
It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour.
You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing.
Yeah I understand this but that doesn't make not revealing who you are to be alignment indicative. If someone has chosen to smurf they have chosen pre game that they probably don't want to reveal who they are. I feel like saying, reveal yourself or get lynched, is a waste because it depends on the player on how they will act so you can't really get much from that.
Also to talk about this now instead of when mafia will be trying to hunt roles. I think it is best in at least the first phase that a lot of the chosen powers are information type roles specifically scrying
I kinda dislike his pressure on FreezingFoot since FreezingFoot could be a smurf and him calling him out so early just seems like it's a preplanned motion from him regardless of his alignment so null.
When you say you dislike the pressure what do you mean? Do you think it is scummy? Not furthering the game? Could you expand on this?
I seems preplanned so it's null on that part but it did generate discussion although it's early in the game and not much going on outside the FreezingFoot stuff. I mean sure I would like to know his aka to do a meta read later on but the reason for people to smurf is they want to hide their identity so we can't use meta on them.
I don't get why this makes you dislike the pressure though. This makes me like the pressure
It just seems preplanned so he could do that regardless of alignment I feel. What you get out of the pressure yourself?
On June 08 2015 09:20 batsnacks wrote: If I were smurfing I probably wouldn't reveal my identity... unless I forgot I was logged into my main account and accidentally posted. /my2cents
Just woke up[ and had company over last night hence why my activity was kinda iffy(I thought they would be done earlier but they stayed till 11:15 -_-) and Bugs got a question:
On June 08 2015 16:18 wherebugsgo wrote: LightningStrike, do you have any games of yours that you would suggest I read if I wanted to know more about how you play? Gonna dig around myself but just curious if you can help me along in identifying which games you would consider representative of your town and mafia play.
On June 08 2015 16:16 wherebugsgo wrote: I have like 5 people right now on my list I would consider nearly 100% town
anyone else agree with me?
Who?
I have like 1 maybe 2. I really like kickstart, don't know if that needs explaining and also think i like tube his read on me seems really genuine and is just looking at my early play in a really good light which makes me think he is town.
Onegu leaving after smurf speculation is kind of underwhelming and I want to hear more opinions from LS.
WBG, I understand there is benifits of the "im going to treat you like a dick" play style but foot actually started providing stuff so I don't really get the "you're bad" post but they always feel awkward to me because if you are calling him bad does that mean you think he is town? IDK
Im here and I am always underwhelming.
no you ain't I remember that one game you scumread koshi which was the main reason i scumread koshi and then shot him, i think it was horn of africa or something.
got anything ya wanna talk about?
I was lynched day one that game though...
Give me a sec I need to read a few filters.
Also lol nobody called me out yet for not claiming VT. BWHAHAHAHAHAHA
That because you cashed it in at XXX when you were scum what you expect -_-
On June 09 2015 01:25 batsnacks wrote: LS I'm really bored. What do you think about policy lynching whoever posts the least? I think you should support it because this game is going to be a drag if it keeps going at this pace.
Honestly I not a big fan of policy lynches myself esp on Day 1 and would rather wait and see if they post anything and form reads on them after they make a few posts.
Ya my activity isn't exactly stellar but that because the smurf debate bored me. Also bats is right on Yamatos meta in that Yamato usually doesn't do shit as scum compared to his town games and he haven't done shit so far I guess Yamato rolled scum for the 4th time in a row Also Kick I gave you a small sample of my games both old and new games there is plenty other games in the database if you willing to do a meta read on me. Mean time I prob should look at Bugs meta and see where it lines up. ##Vote: Yamato77
Okay bugs is totes town he got very similar formatting and stuff to his latest town games to his scum games and his line of questioning to FreezingFoot is also similar how did his line of questioning in his town games. Also Bugs I do tend to do that hey I will be back later stuff a lot regardless of my alignment Also I truly was bored on the smurf debate mainly because it isn't exactly important to know who the smurf is although would be helpful for meta purposes :o Now that the game isn't focused on the great smurf debate I also got a meta read on bats being town he always a interesting person I just hope he doesn't lynch himself again :O Onegu haven't done much so null on him meta wise.
On June 09 2015 05:53 LightningStrike wrote: Okay bugs is totes town he got very similar formatting and stuff to his latest town games to his scum games and his line of questioning to FreezingFoot is also similar how did his line of questioning in his town games. Also Bugs I do tend to do that hey I will be back later stuff a lot regardless of my alignment Also I truly was bored on the smurf debate mainly because it isn't exactly important to know who the smurf is although would be helpful for meta purposes :o Now that the game isn't focused on the great smurf debate I also got a meta read on bats being town he always a interesting person I just hope he doesn't lynch himself again :O Onegu haven't done much so null on him meta wise.
LS talk about how bugs thinks you're being non-confrontational and are easy to read. Or talk about those quotes he used you have a really good memory you should be able to think of something.
I had games as town when I was non-confrontational in past (Games of Thrones and early part of Ippo) and honestly there wasn't much to talk about but I will defend Bugs till my death he's totes town. I pretty at this point Yamato is scum on meta where he doesn't do jack shit as scum compared to his scum games hence why I put my vote on Yamato(We had discussed this in Ippo and decided it was best to lynch) do you have reads on anyone you want to talk about?
On June 09 2015 05:57 batsnacks wrote: Wow that's not what I was expecting at all. 95% is way too high, I wouldn't go higher than 30%. I've played with LS a bunch and I personally think he's really hard to read; I think this game is well within what he's capable of as town. I wonder what LS will think about this.
On June 09 2015 07:57 yamato77 wrote: So, to begin, I'm going to give my thoughts on WBG's accusations against FF in the early game that I previously posted about but did not actually follow up on.
On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf. @Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf?
Being a smurf is not alignment indicative.
refusing to divulge relevant information sure is!
identity is a large part of mafia.
So do you think someone that has chosen to smurf is more likely to reveal who they are as town or mafia then?
I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town.
Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory.
It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour.
You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing.
This seems to be the crux of his argument that he repeats constantly and is honestly quite flawed. First of all, a smurf is just a player in the game. The smurf's identity CAN become a factor if it is slipped out or if someone successfully guesses their identity as it becomes more obvious, but at the beginning of a game and without any reason at all to suspect them, WBG seems fixated on this idea that not claiming your identity as a smurf makes you mafia. I do not think that is the case whatsoever, and I find it hard to believe that a town WBG would be so obstinate about it.
Secondly, this all comes out after FF posts about how he doesn't like WBG's opening, and yet at some point it was put forth that FF was just under the influence of OMGUS when it came to his read on WBG. This is obviously false and I definitely see how a town player smurfing in FF's spot finds WBG's push highly suspect; because it is. It doesn't really make a ton of sense for a seasoned player to go HAM in the early game over a smurf he knew existed before the game unless it was clearly as a policy vote. The only problem is, WBG never framed the discussion as some sort of policy, he continued to attempt to justify pushing FF on the grounds that his play THIS GAME as a smurf was problematic because he wouldn't claim.
If he had such an issue with smurfs not claiming, why did he wait until FF pinged him out to post about it? Why did he troll about the early read and act all not serious (as in, blending in with the tone of the thread) instead of just posting that he was clearly just pushing a policy vote? Why did he then take this policy vote and morph it into what it became? It doesn't really add up.
On June 08 2015 08:42 Kickstart wrote: It is helpful by way of making a point. It is not helpful in so far as having the question answered because you ask the question knowing it won't be answered. If he was interested in displaying his identity he would not be in a disguise. It does not take a wise man to posit your question.
you apparently don't understand.
It is in town's benefit to know his identity. If he refuses while taking votes that's anti-town.
So just vote him and see what he does. If he doesn't give town anything what use is he alive? His contribution to this conversation has been a gif in response to my quote post. It is early in the day, but this is a good chance to see how our smurf wants to play the game.
I understand perfectly fine.
No you don't, because you repeatedly have shown an inability to read what I am saying.
I have said twice now that a smurf DOES NOT HAVE TO REVEAL THEMSELVES to satisfy my line of questioning.
I simply want more out of this particular player. The responses I have received so far have been relatively lukewarm at best. However, I'm going to step it up a bit further.
I agree with your general premise but not your methodology. I have already said the important question in regards to our mystery man is whether he will use his identity to impart wisdom and knowledge or to sow confusion.
So did I, you just failed to read where I said it. Twice. Now three times, actually, and if you count this now, four.
You seem to miss the point that had he been interested in revealing his identity he would have done so. This goes back to my earlier question to you: Do you ask him to reveal his identity so that when he refuses you can accuse him? Why would a member of the coven do such a thing when they already know that the outcome will be that he does not revel himself.
Nope. You're not reading. Keep this up and I'm going to just ignore you.
Your argument so far has been that his withholding his identity is suspicious and his posting style thus far is suspicious. But if we do not know his identity how can we judge his posting style as indicative of anything?
All that said, our mystery man does need to choose his path. He either gives us wisdom and clarity or he sows confusion, and his fate is decided by which course of action he chooses to take.
Nope. I am saying you do not understand because, well...you don't.
Let me clarify for you what has happened so far, and what is now worth discussing.
On June 08 2015 08:21 FreezingFoot wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:15 wherebugsgo wrote: anyway I am kinda sad I didn't roll scum this game but you guys should elevate me to Greater Demon status cause that'll be baller
also if you guys could fill me in on who I should expect to suck this game and when I should be disappointed for someone sucking that would be great
Btw I don't like this opening. Sounds like a guy trying too hard do say "oh I'm town /sob", and asking people for names to work with.
He doesn't like my opening. Sign #1 he doesn't like me.
Cool.
Let's skip over his direct response to my vote, because it was useless.
Third post following my vote:
On June 08 2015 08:48 FreezingFoot wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:39 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:35 Kickstart wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf. @Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf?
Being a smurf is not alignment indicative.
refusing to divulge relevant information sure is!
identity is a large part of mafia.
But surely if you were an acolyte you would see the wisdom in ones words and not need to know the person's identity to discern its wisdom or lack thereof. Is this attempt to discern this persons true identity something useful for a member of the coven? Do you ask so that you can discredit if he does not oblige? Do you ask to know if he is a powerful and wise acolyte? Both courses of action would be beneficial to the inquisitors, while knowing his true identity or not does not matter to members of the coven. Ones words and actions matter most to the coven, not ones identity.
Only an inquisitor would be so interested in ones identity over ones wisdom.
Would you rather have the smurf be Foolishness, or random lurker X?
What about Ace, or BloodyC0bbler?
How exactly is this purely a scum-motivated question? It arguably helps town far more, given that if the smurf is town scum already know they are town and they are already automatically a threat. Knowing a player's identity is less important to scum. As scum I have left otherwise "good" townies alive to throw off towns before, simply because they were completely wrong.
It's not a scum motivated question. But you questioned nothing. it is a scum behaviour. It's basically a policy lynch that you get behind without compromising yourself. You won't have to rely on building original reads. You just see a townie and justify a push on him without actually caring for his alignment.
What I exhibited is a "scum behaviour" according to Freezingfoot. He didn't like my original post, and he thinks I am not trying to build original reads. He claims I don't care about his alignment.
Fourth post:
On June 08 2015 09:00 FreezingFoot wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:53 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:48 FreezingFoot wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:39 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:35 Kickstart wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf. @Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf?
Being a smurf is not alignment indicative.
refusing to divulge relevant information sure is!
identity is a large part of mafia.
But surely if you were an acolyte you would see the wisdom in ones words and not need to know the person's identity to discern its wisdom or lack thereof. Is this attempt to discern this persons true identity something useful for a member of the coven? Do you ask so that you can discredit if he does not oblige? Do you ask to know if he is a powerful and wise acolyte? Both courses of action would be beneficial to the inquisitors, while knowing his true identity or not does not matter to members of the coven. Ones words and actions matter most to the coven, not ones identity.
Only an inquisitor would be so interested in ones identity over ones wisdom.
Would you rather have the smurf be Foolishness, or random lurker X?
What about Ace, or BloodyC0bbler?
How exactly is this purely a scum-motivated question? It arguably helps town far more, given that if the smurf is town scum already know they are town and they are already automatically a threat. Knowing a player's identity is less important to scum. As scum I have left otherwise "good" townies alive to throw off towns before, simply because they were completely wrong.
It's not a scum motivated question. But you questioned nothing. it is a scum behaviour. It's basically a policy lynch that you get behind without compromising yourself. You won't have to rely on building original reads. You just see a townie and justify a push on him without actually caring for his alignment.
So it's a scum behaviour to question nothing...at the beginning of day 1, when by definition there is nothing to question.
Where do you come up with this logic?
Tell us who you are? It will help town = town approach You're mafia because you're not telling us who you are = scum approach.
Implicitly calling my approach scum approach. But not directly doing it.
If Freezingfoot thinks my approach is so scummy, in four straight posts....
Why doesn't he vote me? If he tries to get me killed directly that would be one thing, but he's just weakly throwing back mud at me.
He posts that it's not about his identity, he just wants him to play more. How is this different than any other player in the game, then? Why the unnecessary fixation on the smurf? What does he expect from any player this early in the game? I remain quite unsure what WBG's goals are with this push and he fails to make them very clear whatsoever. Perhaps he's just forcing things in the name of early game town play but then why make it out like some sort of policy thing? It's just strange.
For the record, up to this point, only KS, LS, and Breshke had really commented on this situation and basically all of them had quite a different reaction to what was going on than WBG did. LS agrees with how I view the situation, as does Breshke, and KS also seems rather uninterested in the idea of focusing so much attention on the smurf. WBG manages to obfuscate and avoid anyone questioning his own motivations during this time.
On June 08 2015 09:09 yamato77 wrote: If this game were a DotA game I'd be picking Terrorblade right about now.
talk to me, yo.
tell me what you think about, specifically:
1. FreezingFoot's entrance into the game 2. FreezingFoot's response to my vote 3. Kickstart 4. Anyone else who has posted so far 5. Who you think has the potential to have good opinions
Since WBG requested, I'll respond to his posts specifically as well.
FF's "vote me" entrance means absolutely nothing and has no bearing on the game whatsoever. He did immediately post that he didn't like your opening because it looked weird to him, and I agree. Your post looked forced.
Your vote was a response to that. His response was to be like "lolwtf u smokin?" As I've outlined, I agree.
KS seems to be posting unnaturally but then again I feel as if maybe that's just the way he types. Other than that, I have no qualms with his play.
I've talked about basically everyone else who's posted up to this point, but don't worry, I still have plenty left of the game to read and analyze. You may yet redeem yourself!
Aside from me, you're probably the next best town player if you are actually town. I have varying levels of experience playing with the players in this game and I'll talk about them in the context of my expectations for their play when I need to. Overall I don't expect this to be a particularly strong-willed town nor do I expect many people to deviate from the plan I come up with once I've actually posted this post and everyone realizes that I am indeed town, and that they should probably just listen to me.
On June 08 2015 09:25 wherebugsgo wrote: Disregarding all of this, the most damning thing about FreezingFoot right now is the refusal to come out and play. I do not get a sense of interest from FreezingFoot. This could simply come down to not knowing what to do, but that's hard to believe given that smurfs are generally experienced. Why is FreezingFoot painting me as scummy, but doing it in such a weak manner? Why was FreezingFoot's first post a request for witchcraft votes? Why does FreezingFoot not try to participate in discussion when there is plenty of discussion happening?
Most of the discussion happening is about FF himself. What exactly is he supposed to say, bugs? I feel like this is just a little too forced for my taste.
On June 08 2015 09:52 Bill Murray wrote: This game has already ascended the RVS so I kind of feel bad promoting such a shitty play but I just can't help myself to stoop to that level sometimes.
There are a few important facts about this game
First, this is Reverse Mafia. The good guys are bad, and the bad guys are good.
I feel that this brings a couple things into the equation 1) It should make me a valuable player, considering we basically have a scum-style-town 2) scumhunting becomes a little different; people who are bad may have a superiority complex
I wish I didn't have to try to read this guy, but I will have to at some point. That time is not right now.
On June 08 2015 09:53 FreezingFoot wrote: Dude, you are scum reading me for something that makes no one scum. I want to understand your thought process before forming a solid read on you. I am NOT answering a question YOU were supposed to clarify.
You're actually not answering anything, it literally does not matter what I ask of you.
I'll leave it up to the other players to decide what they think. I have no problems killing you regardless of alignment at this point, since if you are indeed town you are pretty much worthless.
Again, the reasons for voting FF seem to just morph out of thin air. This IS 100% forced and I don't really associate town play with forcing a vote on a fucking smurf slot.
On June 08 2015 11:08 batsnacks wrote: bill can we be buddies? I thought your setup speculation was very intelligent and insightful. Broken Flowers is a really good movie. I eat at the Murray Brother's Caddy Shack restaurant at least once a year.
I actually really like this post from batsnacks and I think it's enough along with his general level of involvement to give him a solid townread.
Kickstart and Breshke I think are town. I actually like Freezing's response.
For the Great Smurf Debate of 2015 I don't care if Freeze outs or not. personally, I'm happy if he/she doesn't. Obviously, she's doing it for a reason pre-game. I don't get why you want to ruin that for them.
On June 08 2015 15:01 Bill Murray wrote: ##unvote ##vote: WBG
Can you explain this?
ad hominem is a logical fallacy and indicative of scum
considering his scumandeering near my entrance in the game, the two damning qualities of these, coupled with my liking of batsnacks responses to me, are why my vote is where it is
are you unhappy that i'm voting someone who is worthy of a policy lynch considering the way he is treating you?
I said I wouldn't try to read BM but I like this post in terms of how it shows that BM is actually thinking about the game.
On June 08 2015 22:50 Onegu wrote: Going through all filters and giving my reads on them
List Post:
Shockeyy: No Posts LS: Dont really like he is commenting on things but not giving actual reads on those things. Shining: No Posts Stutters: Meh 1 post wanting a blue role. Yamato: 2 posts one troll post and one meh post. Know he is working. FF: Most likely town. Liked his defense and refusal to claim identity. His/her posts are chok full of info. Unless I know who they are and if that person is a very capable scum player will keep my town read on them. TS: 2 posts. The second one is kinda meh to me. Not really sure why he thinks tunneling is a scum tell. BM: really wierd turn around on WBG. Says he isnt tunneling then votes him for no reason dropping his read on bats for 0 reasons. Bats: look fairly townie making reads and stuff brsheke: Looks fine also. His early sheep onto FF looked kinda wierd but his later reasons were fine. WBG: Most active, not sure if I have played with him before or not but seems townie. Didnt really agree with his smurf thing but meh. KS: Also very active. Liked his layed backness at the start. Has orginal reads. Would town read again.
this is mostly ok, I think, in terms of how it makes me feel about onegu
Kickstart and Breshke I think are town. I actually like Freezing's response.
For the Great Smurf Debate of 2015 I don't care if Freeze outs or not. personally, I'm happy if he/she doesn't. Obviously, she's doing it for a reason pre-game. I don't get why you want to ruin that for them.
Anyway, anyone still around?
Someone also said they thought foots was rsoultin before.
idk, I personally wouldn't put much into that. First it was he/she and it could have been a matter of convenience to say "she". I know some people default to female pronouns when they are unsure. Even so, Tubesock could know FF's identity through some other means, e.g. they talked to a particular player and knew they were going to smurf in this game.
With that said though, if Tubesock indeed does know FF's identity then it makes them both far more likely to be scum. That would be unfortunate (and rather weird, too) because I actually don't really think that's the case right now.
##unvote
Gonna think for a bit, the lack of feedback from players is a little disappointing. bats, talk to me a bit.
What do you think of other players in the game right now? Is this what you would expect from town yamato, onegu, Lightning?
Have you played with Bill Murray before, and do you think he is town this game?
I find bugs' drop of this whole thing rather abrupt and disturbing.
On June 09 2015 04:44 batsnacks wrote: @bugs LS is doing slightly less than I would expect as town. Onegu is doing about equal to what I would expect as town. Yamato is doing way less than I would expect as town and is less abrasive, and Yamato is notorious for doing way less as mafia. I'm leaning town on BM I have played with him a bunch.
For the record, I can be abrasive as mafia, and I can be perfectly reasonable as town. I have a wide range.
On June 09 2015 05:33 LightningStrike wrote: Ya my activity isn't exactly stellar but that because the smurf debate bored me. Also bats is right on Yamatos meta in that Yamato usually doesn't do shit as scum compared to his town games and he haven't done shit so far I guess Yamato rolled scum for the 4th time in a row Also Kick I gave you a small sample of my games both old and new games there is plenty other games in the database if you willing to do a meta read on me. Mean time I prob should look at Bugs meta and see where it lines up. ##Vote: Yamato77
I REALLY don't like this post for quite obvious reasons, nor am I really in love with anything else LS has posted in particular. He's been rather under the radar for typical LS.
On June 09 2015 05:35 wherebugsgo wrote: ##vote LightningStrike
I think Lightning is like 95% scum.
At first in my notes I had Lightning as having a scummy entrance, focusing a lot on asking people questions but using a tone and posting style that is very non-confrontational. This causes LS's posts to come off as forced and I find it hard to piece together his logic if he were town. e.g. this post:
On June 08 2015 08:49 LightningStrike wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:44 Breshke wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:35 LightningStrike wrote: So Breshke any thoughts on Wherebugsgo right now?
not really. Do you?
On June 08 2015 08:36 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:31 Breshke wrote: Hi
On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf. @Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf?
Being a smurf is not alignment indicative.
refusing to divulge relevant information sure is!
identity is a large part of mafia.
So do you think someone that has chosen to smurf is more likely to reveal who they are as town or mafia then?
I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town.
Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory.
It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour.
You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing.
Yeah I understand this but that doesn't make not revealing who you are to be alignment indicative. If someone has chosen to smurf they have chosen pre game that they probably don't want to reveal who they are. I feel like saying, reveal yourself or get lynched, is a waste because it depends on the player on how they will act so you can't really get much from that.
Also to talk about this now instead of when mafia will be trying to hunt roles. I think it is best in at least the first phase that a lot of the chosen powers are information type roles specifically scrying
I kinda dislike his pressure on FreezingFoot since FreezingFoot could be a smurf and him calling him out so early just seems like it's a preplanned motion from him regardless of his alignment so null.
Notice the qualifications I've bolded here.
He doesn't like it, but goes back and says oh I guess it could be preplanned. So it's null. Null is not a read.
There's also this that follows:
On June 08 2015 08:50 LightningStrike wrote: Also sure it would be nice knowing FreezingFoot's aka but it's not as important as finding scum.
Notice LS says it's not as important as finding scum but LS doesn't actually ever attempt to find scum.
Half of LS's posts focus on "hey I'll be back later" and are also seemingly very self-aware. e.g:
On June 08 2015 09:02 LightningStrike wrote: Well guys I going to get some dinner and when I come back I will check everything that goes on after this post!
Townies don't generally do this so freaking often. You don't need to announce to everyone that you're going to do your job as a townie, unless you are very new or scum.
TL Mafia database has a LOT of games for LS. So he is NOT a new player. This instantly made me more suspicious, but I wanted to see if as town LS was more confident and helpful. Turns out, LS is one of those players I would say has a very clear cut difference between town and mafia. I would suggest you all to skim over some of LS's past games, but in particular the ones that stand out are:
LightningStrike wrote: I'm back and I finding Geript pretty townie this game but than again I never played vs his Mafia yet but so far I feel he's pushing and asking a ton of questions is pretty much him being town. Slam is thinking logically so far although I hate how he suggested a RNG shot Blazinghand style but he been pushing out ideas and not being boring like he was in Slytherin and Student IV when he was Mafia so I giving him a town read by meta. HTS looks really shakey and starting to look a tiny bit like her Void and Newbie LX Mafia games so possible Mafia by meta. rsoultin I love you and all but I need some extra time on you from the fact that I just coming off of 2 games of you being Mafia and might get some paranoia which I might have still on HTS because I not completely forgiven her for lynching me in Newbie LX. But you being very cheerful so far but idk if that is alignment indicative. Tubesock I hated the No Shoot idea but the logic behind it seems townie but I have yet to see him play as Mafia. Breshke is asking some questions and also reconsider his own thoughts and looks townie. Damdred you need to bleed town this game to me because the last time I played with you in Titanic you were Mafia yet you looked so townie in my eyes I just couldn't really play right Your Mom and Sepulchre are both smurfs and idk their other ids but I finding Sepulchre pretty townie on his large post and asking questions with some good explanations for why he thought of stuff like HTS making them intentionally bad or bait and his thing on OBS but I remember OBS having bad Day 1s as town so I would give OBS some extra time to see if he bleeds town. Your Mom haven't posted much either and got Null on him simply because he got very short questions and posts so far so I might need more posts from him to see where he lies for now.
vs
2.
LightningStrike wrote: Town: Eden: Played with before when he was Mafia and Town but we he seems to be town this game. Geript: Toneread says town he seems to ask some good questions. Snickers: Being extremely serious and giving his thoughts freely it kind of reminds me of a more serious me. Oatsmaster: Trying to get discussions going with pms and stuff but also he just being himself as town this game. Liancourt: He seems interested this game which is a good sign for him being town although I never him play as Mafia before. Null: Koshi: 1 post from him this game and it isn't really alignment indicative. sicklucker: I can't read him anymore on Day 1 after playing with him when he was Mafia and I was town. Also his Day 1 is bad. VisceraEyes: 1 post and wasn't alignment indicative need more posts from him.
LightningStrike wrote: I don't disagree for now on the Eden read. Rsoultin just seems to happy to be Mafia given she played as Mafia twice in a row into Town with me lol. I'm sorry I was Mafia in that game Damdred it just hurt when you called me Mafia but Geript carried me till he died and did a hilarious bus on Sandroba when sicklucker got lynched lol........
LightningStrike wrote: I agree with you on kita Rayn considering a lot has happened since his last post and not really commenting anything relevant except for the shot ideas. Also I remember Toad being mostly carefree early in Hammertime when I was a Cohost when he was Town and he coming across the same way so I incline to think he's town. Rayn you know how to read Sicklucker from my past experience with you and him together any thoughts on Sicklucker so far?
LightningStrike wrote: Sorry I was playing LoL game and HF's case on JAT is legit now that we seen HF flip Town and he made many good points on JAT and honestly the bully behavior that JAT displayed this game when people were voting is consistent with his behavior in Void mafia where he bullied people off him in the entire game as scum. Here's his filter from that game although he just was smurfing in that game that is why the name might be off His scum game in Void: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475749-the-void-mafia?user=Wile E. Coyote
LightningStrike wrote: I'm back and sicklucker is fighting Breshke instead of the other cell mates o.o Also Geript being mad at Kita too and Tube fighting Geript this is interesting stuff going on here and personally I never played in a Cell Setup before so this interesting. Also Geript claimed he got Vig powers and claimed to had shot Sep but yet Sep survived so most likely Ninja in Sep if what Geript was saying is true. I will admit I guarded the Button since we don't know what the button does I thought it was safe play since it kind of like the presents in Carol where we gotten random Presents 1 from a Mass Murderer when unwraped instant kill the person 1 with a Cop power for the Night and 1 with a Vig Shot for the Night and since it prob pure rng what we get I really don't want to give Mafia extra powers or extra powers for ninjas either and weighed it in myself and decided to guard the button.
vs
2.
LightningStrike wrote: Sorry for not posting much and a update on reading Sandro's past games and will come up with stuff for tomorrow and sicklucker paranoia went through my head sorry and now seeing some light that you are more likely town than Mafia. Tomorrow I will present my findings on Sandro's past games as both alignments and present everything I have on him.
vs
3.
LightningStrike wrote: I was just wating for more posts to get some better reads that why I haven't posted much because there was really much for me to ready. I still waiting for alakaslam, Dicksmash McIroncock, and Meatpudding to post. My reads are atm the following Town: Oatsmaster, sicklucker, Damdred, kushm4sta, Trfel Null: Half the Sky, Breshke, Alakaslam Scum: Dicksmash McIroncock, Meatpudding. Dicksmash didn't post anything after his first post for the day and Meatpudding is either trolling us with the stuff he posted earlier or he scum but time will tell. Alakaslam at least gave a good explanation for his posts. Breshke gave a explanation on why he voted for sicklucker Half the Sky made some decent posts but it reads null in my eyes but I still kind of new to TL Mafia (2nd game in TL mafia).
vs
4.
LightningStrike wrote: Guys fyi I wont be here from about 11:45 am to at least 4:30 pm CST and I still think Sandroba is Mafia based on meta and Oats I getting him as Town as he playing like he did in Office, Void, and New Years Eve Party where he was a little lazy but he seemed a little motivated now to play the game although I wished he had played on Day 1 but he's here now.
5.
On March 08 2015 22:39 LightningStrike wrote: Just woke up and will answer your question. Tubesock I thinking some resemblances of her last game in Titanic now and Day 1 I had paranoia because before Titanic when I played her she was Mafia and rolled Mafia in another game too. The reason I seeing some resemblances from this game to Titanic because in that game she also was confused on setup stuff esp on the fact we had 2 Jail Keepers ( Nigella in Carol) and she having some confusions this game on setup stuff too. So a slight Town meta read on her.
Onegu since you confirmed town by the Cop Check I will do as you ask just promise me you shoot Geript okay?
HTS Happy Birthday Girl I assuming you going to party for a bit ##Unvote ##Vote: Onegu
LS's scum play is very very non confrontational and he generally gets away pretty well with just asking questions and making excuses for not having strong opinions or posting much. Tends to be very self-conscious in the thread when he rolls scum, which makes it very easy to recognize him
One of the main things going for bugs' is his sheer effort.
I also sort of agree with that last little summary case, given how I feel about normal LS. Normal LS looks bad but he doesn't really care quite as much.
On June 09 2015 05:53 LightningStrike wrote: Okay bugs is totes town he got very similar formatting and stuff to his latest town games to his scum games and his line of questioning to FreezingFoot is also similar how did his line of questioning in his town games. Also Bugs I do tend to do that hey I will be back later stuff a lot regardless of my alignment Also I truly was bored on the smurf debate mainly because it isn't exactly important to know who the smurf is although would be helpful for meta purposes :o Now that the game isn't focused on the great smurf debate I also got a meta read on bats being town he always a interesting person I just hope he doesn't lynch himself again :O Onegu haven't done much so null on him meta wise.
blegh this response is not what I'd hope for if LS was town
On June 09 2015 06:42 batsnacks wrote: Let's do a fun poll:
Bugs is pushing stuff and I want to find out how compelling people think bug's pushes are. Choose the graph that you think best describes the strength and compelling-ness of bug's pushes over time:
A: y = some integer constant ; (the strength and compelling-ness of bugs pushes has stayed the same over time) + Show Spoiler +
B: y = -x + 8 ; (the strength and compelling-ness of bugs pushes is decreasing linearly over time) + Show Spoiler +
C: y = x ; (the strength and compelling-ness of bugs pushes is increasing linearly over time) + Show Spoiler +
D: y = sqrt(x) ; (the strength and compelling-ness of bugs pushes is decreasing exponentially over time) + Show Spoiler +
E: y = (x^2)/8 ; (the strength and compelling-ness of bugs pushes is increasing exponentially over time) + Show Spoiler +
F. y = e^x.
growth is always exponential!
On June 09 2015 07:16 Kickstart wrote: WBG said there are better lynches than yamato, who are they?
Going to convention center for graduation, help meeeeeeeeeee. BBS~
read my post on LS.
I think he's the best lynch for today
At this point I actually sort of agree with WBG, weirdly. You'll all call me bad for spending most of my post calling his push scummy and such but he did move on and I do like where he's going. It's pretty hard to see any mafia player giving enough of a fuck to continue to post in such volume when his main push failed so dramatically and people started to vote him (even if the votes on him aren't particularly threatening).
Overall, this game is rather lurky though and I don't have amazingly confident reads on too many players. LS is probably the worst looking player, but after that...? Shockey, perhaps? But he's a complete noob. Meh.
##Vote: LightningStrike
The bolded is simply misrepresenting me I had shown how I cared about I look a lot as both alignments so at best that should be null to you. Also I starting to have som doubt that you are scum now but only slightly. Bleed town for me please?
On June 09 2015 08:22 batsnacks wrote: Yamato thinks E:. I am closer to C: but yamato's post is highly acceptable and I fully rescind my scum lean on him.
My thoughts on the LS are that he was way less scummy before the case. His responses after the case were not what I was expecting at all if he's town. LS's responses to the case are more likely to make him mafia than the case itself. LS buddys, sheeps, and feigns ineptitude when in danger as mafia.
Ugh I was looking through his meta when he made his case tbh with you lol.
On June 09 2015 08:22 batsnacks wrote: Yamato thinks E:. I am closer to C: but yamato's post is highly acceptable and I fully rescind my scum lean on him.
My thoughts on the LS are that he was way less scummy before the case. His responses after the case were not what I was expecting at all if he's town. LS's responses to the case are more likely to make him mafia than the case itself. LS buddys, sheeps, and feigns ineptitude when in danger as mafia.
Ugh I was looking through his meta when he made his case tbh with you lol.
I believe in you LS. Bugs is still the lynch technically speaking you have plenty of time.
I know I have plenty of time Any thoughts outside of the wagons atm?
On June 09 2015 08:28 LightningStrike wrote: Also I shown how I hated cases on me before in GoT and HF tunneled on me so hard I rage quit there.
His case isn't that strong in a vacuum. If you take out the quotes it really boils down to:
1) You're being non-confrontational. 2) You said scum hunting is more important than smurf hunting and then didn't scum hunt. 3) bugs thinks he can easily read you despite never having played with you.
Doesn't help half the game been afk tbh lol. From my research he is a strong player but he's wrong on me lol. I wish Breshke and others are here esp Stutters since I can read Stutters like a book
On June 09 2015 08:39 LightningStrike wrote: So Yamato any thoughts outside of the main wagons?
I literally posted something about every player that has posted.
So you going to wait to get a read on Stutters( I can read him like book when he posts), scum on me, town on Bugs, Town on BM, Noob on Tubesock(Where his Tinfoils man) and nothing really on Onegu. Do you think Onegu could be scum? I comfortable enough with you to not lynch you today. ##Unvote
On June 09 2015 08:48 Bill Murray wrote: Case on WBG: 1) ad hominem he directly attacks FF instead of her argument, and then does so again with LS
2) scumandeering he is trying to push forth mislynches and it is painfully obvious he is doing so, since it's with terrible reasoning that he is fully disguising
3) misrepresentation he is trying to say I said he was town whenever I was saying I know he has to be mafia due to my meta on him
4) Meta I have played with WBG a lot. This is not how he acts as town. Guy needs to be lynched; he's scum 100%
5) Policy If all of these reasons don't sway you, consider voting him for committing logical fallacy
I did read the thread just not carefully.... So by a lot are talking like 10+ games played together? I been mainly focusing on getting the Stages in Super Smash Bros Melee since I finally found my Gamecube Memory card and man it's a blast the past for me!
On June 09 2015 09:36 batsnacks wrote: People still haven't posted yet can we honestly say WBG is the best lynch? Even if you scum read him he is the biggest contributor this game so far; he has contributed to his lynch!
Can we honestly lynch the biggest contributor d1?
I had this happen in Newbie LX when I was the 2nd highest post count filter wise and still got lynched. Sometimes the most actives can be scum I have doubts of WBG being scum atm.
On June 09 2015 09:36 batsnacks wrote: People still haven't posted yet can we honestly say WBG is the best lynch? Even if you scum read him he is the biggest contributor this game so far; he has contributed to his lynch!
Can we honestly lynch the biggest contributor d1?
I had this happen in Newbie LX when I was the 2nd highest post count filter wise and still got lynched. Sometimes the most actives can be scum I have doubts of WBG being scum atm.
Like if anyone thing they got a way better way of reading WBG on meta they should prove it to me the meta master.
Okay I back and will answer Breshke's question regarding WBG's meta: From my research he tends to be much more aggressive and more thoughtful as town than scum which demonstrated pretty damn well this game when he pressured FreezingFoot and made a case on me although he is wrong on my alignment since I know Town. As scum he tends to more lurky and not as thoughtful from what I can tell from the couple of games I had checked out from the database regarding his meta. Also @Onegu I didn't scumread you for not claiming VT I just only said you cashed in on claiming VT Day 1 as scum before(XXX) and everyone is VT by default since the Miller is not selfaware also there wasn't much stuff in the thread to work with? I got the following as Town: WBG: Meta which I just explained. FreezingFoot: His reaction to WBG seemed pretty townie and looked townie outside of it. bats: Seems much more in line of his town meta compared to scum meta from my experience with him where the only time I played vs his scum he was I think a little bit more serious that game. Breshke: He seemed much more focused this game and willing to ask questions more than his normal scum game which I manged to catch him before BM: Although I think he's wrong on his meta read on WBG he did push it and he actually believes and looked townie for pushing someone who I think is Top Town. The rest are Null just wish a couple of the people would start posting more
Also before I go I will answer your question about the links Shock: He asked me to give me some of my past games since he never played with me before so ya I gave him some and told there's more in the database if he wants to take a look.
On June 10 2015 00:41 batsnacks wrote: Who are you lynching today LS? You need to convince 7 people...
Maybe one of the lurkers because the game is pretty inactive and there might be potential mafia in there as much I hate policy lynching lurkers it might be out best shot hitting scum :\
On June 10 2015 03:20 LightningStrike wrote: I just got home and got a question:
On June 10 2015 00:41 batsnacks wrote: Who are you lynching today LS? You need to convince 7 people...
Maybe one of the lurkers because the game is pretty inactive and there might be potential mafia in there as much I hate policy lynching lurkers it might be out best shot hitting scum :\
So pick one. You're like in huge danger of being lynched.
Idk maybe shock since he haven't done much except posting like 2 huge posts that's all I can remember of him. ##Vote: ShoCkeey
On June 10 2015 03:20 LightningStrike wrote: I just got home and got a question:
On June 10 2015 00:41 batsnacks wrote: Who are you lynching today LS? You need to convince 7 people...
Maybe one of the lurkers because the game is pretty inactive and there might be potential mafia in there as much I hate policy lynching lurkers it might be out best shot hitting scum :\
So pick one. You're like in huge danger of being lynched.
Idk maybe shock since he haven't done much except posting like 2 huge posts that's all I can remember of him. ##Vote: ShoCkeey
BM thinks this is the best shockey has ever played. You're the meta master what do you say about that?
From what I had read the guy normally have a small filter regardless of his alignment and seemed to be more defensive as scum than town and he doesn't seem that defensive this game from the posts he did(shrugs). I know Stutters normally not a active player as Town compared to his scum game and he loves to bus his scummates as scum so :\ ##Unvote
On June 10 2015 03:20 LightningStrike wrote: I just got home and got a question:
On June 10 2015 00:41 batsnacks wrote: Who are you lynching today LS? You need to convince 7 people...
Maybe one of the lurkers because the game is pretty inactive and there might be potential mafia in there as much I hate policy lynching lurkers it might be out best shot hitting scum :\
So pick one. You're like in huge danger of being lynched.
Idk maybe shock since he haven't done much except posting like 2 huge posts that's all I can remember of him. ##Vote: ShoCkeey
BM thinks this is the best shockey has ever played. You're the meta master what do you say about that?
From what I had read the guy normally have a small filter regardless of his alignment and seemed to be more defensive as scum than town and he doesn't seem that defensive this game from the posts he did(shrugs). I know Stutters normally not a active player as Town compared to his scum game and he loves to bus his scummates as scum so :\ ##Unvote
To add on my point to Stutters he is easier to read the more he posts.
Honestly despite the fact I know how to read Stutters he prob the best lynch even it's on policy and I hope he picks up before EoD so I can get a better tell on him. Just a reminder this just on pure policy from me and I normally don't do that but it prob the best place to put my vote in my opinion for now. ##Vote: Stutters
On June 10 2015 04:59 batsnacks wrote: I think we should all vote stutters unless he comes back and towns himself. If stutters does come back to town himself we can switch to LS at the last minute. This plan assumes town is cool enough to not afk and accidentally no lynch.
Why do you make a case on Bill Murray but proposes a lynch on two different people?
My bill case relies on unflipped associations. I think bugs could be mafia for what bm said and I think bm could be mafia for what I said but I don't want to lynch either of them over stutters and LS is being weird.
Your case actually relies on meta. Also, if you think that case is weak or flawed, why even posting when Bill is under suspicions but backtracking right after?
Yes meta and unflipped associations. I said bill as mafia likes to make big, possibly high risk, high reward plays. If you and bugs are town, that would qualify. I do not know that you and bugs are town, in fact I wouldn't be shocked if bugs were mafia for what bill said. I did think the case was worth posting though.
I was also thinking about bill and shockey being mafia together and bill going out on a huge limb to push obvious townies and save obvious scums but again... Unflipped associations and not worth voting on.
I also thought this, and I think you also has a good shot on being mafia with them because you refuse to lynch one of those two.
On June 10 2015 05:47 yamato77 wrote: Kickstart really making no sense. I'm really questioning his alignment.
For the record, I am a dick. Yes I think Shining is probably town but I disagree with everything he says.
I also disagree with everything Bill posts but that doesnt mean much. I don't know how to read him and that makes me very unlikely to lynch him.
Anyone doubting the lynch on LS need only to look at his filter and see just how uninterested in finding mafia this guy is. A lot of his posting is quite weak and he's really only attempting to feign interest or care when it's obvious that tonally he couldn't give a shit less and he hasn't really had any strong reads the entire game.
Every single game this argument is made concerning LS. D2/3 if he's mafia he really really drops off. It's way more apparent than any of his D1 stuff.
Haven't you played with him before?
He had played with me before 3 times (Aperture 4, Ippo, and Assassination) in each of those games I was town but in Ippo Yamato was scum.
On June 10 2015 06:41 wherebugsgo wrote: alright, done throwing a tantrum and I'm going to play to my win condition now. Before I move on, though, one thing is clear:
LS IS STILL THE BEST LYNCH. We need to consolidate quickly or we risk no-lynching. Possibly worse, we risk lynching into a player who hasn't even done anything yet, on pure policy. Yes, lurkers are bad. Yes, lynching lurkers is nice, but ONLY when you have no decent alternative.
This game is actually not as bad as ones I've been in before, given that BM is BM and probably scum anyway, and he's the major reason this game sucks (because there happen to be some people who somehow agree with his shit logic)
To give you an idea of what you are sheeping if you agree with BM, just take a look at this gem:
On June 09 2015 11:46 LightningStrike wrote: Bugs I think activity will pick up soon don't rage quit like that and I also think your town :o
you're an idiot
anyway there's not much else to say about BM other than he's probably one of the bottom 3 players on this forum regardless of this alignment, and of all the talk of policy lynching in this game is probably the only player who is consistently worthy of one. From my recollection his town play is actually not this cringy so perhaps I am being a little overzealous here, but I do not ever recall a time where I found BM adequately established his own innocence or provided anything useful in terms of scumhunting. Let's leave it at that-I doubt that anyone is willing to lynch BM today but we'll need to lynch him to win the game eventually.
As for why LS is still the best lynch for today:
1. LS continues to exhibit one of the most classic scum traits. A lack of effort, even under pressure.
To give you an idea, his "meta case" on me being town was completely inaccurate. Here are the things he said:
On June 09 2015 05:53 LightningStrike wrote: Okay bugs is totes town he got very similar formatting and stuff to his latest town games to his scum games and his line of questioning to FreezingFoot is also similar how did his line of questioning in his town games. Also Bugs I do tend to do that hey I will be back later stuff a lot regardless of my alignment Also I truly was bored on the smurf debate mainly because it isn't exactly important to know who the smurf is although would be helpful for meta purposes :o Now that the game isn't focused on the great smurf debate I also got a meta read on bats being town he always a interesting person I just hope he doesn't lynch himself again :O Onegu haven't done much so null on him meta wise.
Jesus, can this be more obvious? Look how many words he uses to say almost completely worthless things. Who cares if LS has town reads? They are not even substantiated by anything. Which questions did I ask of other players in previous games? How is my formatting similar, and what the hell does that have to do with alignment? Which games of mine did he read and why does he not provide concrete examples here?
Another good question to ask would be why he never mentions yamato or tries to convince people to vote yamato after voting yamato himself. In his town games LS generally tends to do this. He asks other people about the reads he has at that moment, just like any other townie would do. Instead, LS quickly moves off yamato after yamato enters the thread (and until yamato entered the thread LS made no effort to convince anyone of his supposed read, which had to be one of the meekest things I've ever seen)
The part that proves LS is full of shit is this post:
On June 09 2015 22:19 LightningStrike wrote: Okay I back and will answer Breshke's question regarding WBG's meta: From my research he tends to be much more aggressive and more thoughtful as town than scum which demonstrated pretty damn well this game when he pressured FreezingFoot and made a case on me although he is wrong on my alignment since I know Town. As scum he tends to more lurky and not as thoughtful from what I can tell from the couple of games I had checked out from the database regarding his meta. Also @Onegu I didn't scumread you for not claiming VT I just only said you cashed in on claiming VT Day 1 as scum before(XXX) and everyone is VT by default since the Miller is not selfaware also there wasn't much stuff in the thread to work with? I got the following as Town: WBG: Meta which I just explained. FreezingFoot: His reaction to WBG seemed pretty townie and looked townie outside of it. bats: Seems much more in line of his town meta compared to scum meta from my experience with him where the only time I played vs his scum he was I think a little bit more serious that game. Breshke: He seemed much more focused this game and willing to ask questions more than his normal scum game which I manged to catch him before BM: Although I think he's wrong on his meta read on WBG he did push it and he actually believes and looked townie for pushing someone who I think is Top Town. The rest are Null just wish a couple of the people would start posting more
I am NOT lurky as scum. I am far from it, and some of my most post-heavy games have been as scum. I am constantly on the attack and I lead lynches as either alignment. I also make cases regardless of alignment. Look at Storm Mafia, Mini Mafia X, My Little Pony, Couples Therapy, Arkham City or Space Station and tell me in which of those games I lurked. In fact, I don't think I've ever lurked when playing mafia on this forum.
On June 10 2015 03:20 LightningStrike wrote: I just got home and got a question:
On June 10 2015 00:41 batsnacks wrote: Who are you lynching today LS? You need to convince 7 people...
Maybe one of the lurkers because the game is pretty inactive and there might be potential mafia in there as much I hate policy lynching lurkers it might be out best shot hitting scum :\
Again, meekness. Look at how little LS wants to strike a confrontation with someone.
This is so obvious in his vote patterns too. Votes someone, then completely backs off almost immediately at the first sign of resistance.
Can anyone tell me what LS's opinions are this game? Can you tell me, based on those opinions, what the reasons are?
Who does LS think is scum and who has LS actually pushed? I certainly can't answer any of these questions without reading LS's posts, and every time I read them I discover gems like these:
On June 10 2015 05:30 LightningStrike wrote: Honestly despite the fact I know how to read Stutters he prob the best lynch even it's on policy and I hope he picks up before EoD so I can get a better tell on him. Just a reminder this just on pure policy from me and I normally don't do that but it prob the best place to put my vote in my opinion for now. ##Vote: Stutters
A constant barrage of worry from LS about where his vote's going to end up.
The scum translation of this is: "Hey guys I'm totally not scum so when this dude ends up flipping town please don't blame me, this is my warning to you that I actually don't have a really good reason for voting this dude but I'm going to do it anyway because I have to and please don't hurt me after"
just kill him
Ugh was anyone questioning if Bats was town? Hint there wasn't. I usually like to put my vote on someone who I think are scum but unfortunately we just have a bunch of lurkers so it better to shoot fish a in barrel on this lynch. Also on my vote on Shock I intially thought he could be scum but then read his meta and discovered he at best would be a policy lynch since he haven't posted much but his large posts looked better on second look. Also at the time you haven't posted much but I do think you're town just wrong on my alignment though
On June 10 2015 06:41 wherebugsgo wrote: alright, done throwing a tantrum and I'm going to play to my win condition now. Before I move on, though, one thing is clear:
LS IS STILL THE BEST LYNCH. We need to consolidate quickly or we risk no-lynching. Possibly worse, we risk lynching into a player who hasn't even done anything yet, on pure policy. Yes, lurkers are bad. Yes, lynching lurkers is nice, but ONLY when you have no decent alternative.
This game is actually not as bad as ones I've been in before, given that BM is BM and probably scum anyway, and he's the major reason this game sucks (because there happen to be some people who somehow agree with his shit logic)
To give you an idea of what you are sheeping if you agree with BM, just take a look at this gem:
On June 08 2015 15:47 Bill Murray wrote:
On June 08 2015 15:18 FreezingFoot wrote:
On June 08 2015 15:01 Bill Murray wrote: ##unvote ##vote: WBG
Can you explain this?
ad hominem is a logical fallacy and indicative of scum
On June 09 2015 12:06 Bill Murray wrote:
On June 09 2015 11:46 LightningStrike wrote: Bugs I think activity will pick up soon don't rage quit like that and I also think your town :o
you're an idiot
anyway there's not much else to say about BM other than he's probably one of the bottom 3 players on this forum regardless of this alignment, and of all the talk of policy lynching in this game is probably the only player who is consistently worthy of one. From my recollection his town play is actually not this cringy so perhaps I am being a little overzealous here, but I do not ever recall a time where I found BM adequately established his own innocence or provided anything useful in terms of scumhunting. Let's leave it at that-I doubt that anyone is willing to lynch BM today but we'll need to lynch him to win the game eventually.
As for why LS is still the best lynch for today:
1. LS continues to exhibit one of the most classic scum traits. A lack of effort, even under pressure.
To give you an idea, his "meta case" on me being town was completely inaccurate. Here are the things he said:
On June 09 2015 05:53 LightningStrike wrote: Okay bugs is totes town he got very similar formatting and stuff to his latest town games to his scum games and his line of questioning to FreezingFoot is also similar how did his line of questioning in his town games. Also Bugs I do tend to do that hey I will be back later stuff a lot regardless of my alignment Also I truly was bored on the smurf debate mainly because it isn't exactly important to know who the smurf is although would be helpful for meta purposes :o Now that the game isn't focused on the great smurf debate I also got a meta read on bats being town he always a interesting person I just hope he doesn't lynch himself again :O Onegu haven't done much so null on him meta wise.
Jesus, can this be more obvious? Look how many words he uses to say almost completely worthless things. Who cares if LS has town reads? They are not even substantiated by anything. Which questions did I ask of other players in previous games? How is my formatting similar, and what the hell does that have to do with alignment? Which games of mine did he read and why does he not provide concrete examples here?
Another good question to ask would be why he never mentions yamato or tries to convince people to vote yamato after voting yamato himself. In his town games LS generally tends to do this. He asks other people about the reads he has at that moment, just like any other townie would do. Instead, LS quickly moves off yamato after yamato enters the thread (and until yamato entered the thread LS made no effort to convince anyone of his supposed read, which had to be one of the meekest things I've ever seen)
The part that proves LS is full of shit is this post:
On June 09 2015 22:19 LightningStrike wrote: Okay I back and will answer Breshke's question regarding WBG's meta: From my research he tends to be much more aggressive and more thoughtful as town than scum which demonstrated pretty damn well this game when he pressured FreezingFoot and made a case on me although he is wrong on my alignment since I know Town. As scum he tends to more lurky and not as thoughtful from what I can tell from the couple of games I had checked out from the database regarding his meta. Also @Onegu I didn't scumread you for not claiming VT I just only said you cashed in on claiming VT Day 1 as scum before(XXX) and everyone is VT by default since the Miller is not selfaware also there wasn't much stuff in the thread to work with? I got the following as Town: WBG: Meta which I just explained. FreezingFoot: His reaction to WBG seemed pretty townie and looked townie outside of it. bats: Seems much more in line of his town meta compared to scum meta from my experience with him where the only time I played vs his scum he was I think a little bit more serious that game. Breshke: He seemed much more focused this game and willing to ask questions more than his normal scum game which I manged to catch him before BM: Although I think he's wrong on his meta read on WBG he did push it and he actually believes and looked townie for pushing someone who I think is Top Town. The rest are Null just wish a couple of the people would start posting more
I am NOT lurky as scum. I am far from it, and some of my most post-heavy games have been as scum. I am constantly on the attack and I lead lynches as either alignment. I also make cases regardless of alignment. Look at Storm Mafia, Mini Mafia X, My Little Pony, Couples Therapy, Arkham City or Space Station and tell me in which of those games I lurked. In fact, I don't think I've ever lurked when playing mafia on this forum.
On June 10 2015 03:20 LightningStrike wrote: I just got home and got a question:
On June 10 2015 00:41 batsnacks wrote: Who are you lynching today LS? You need to convince 7 people...
Maybe one of the lurkers because the game is pretty inactive and there might be potential mafia in there as much I hate policy lynching lurkers it might be out best shot hitting scum :\
Again, meekness. Look at how little LS wants to strike a confrontation with someone.
This is so obvious in his vote patterns too. Votes someone, then completely backs off almost immediately at the first sign of resistance.
Can anyone tell me what LS's opinions are this game? Can you tell me, based on those opinions, what the reasons are?
Who does LS think is scum and who has LS actually pushed? I certainly can't answer any of these questions without reading LS's posts, and every time I read them I discover gems like these:
On June 10 2015 05:30 LightningStrike wrote: Honestly despite the fact I know how to read Stutters he prob the best lynch even it's on policy and I hope he picks up before EoD so I can get a better tell on him. Just a reminder this just on pure policy from me and I normally don't do that but it prob the best place to put my vote in my opinion for now. ##Vote: Stutters
A constant barrage of worry from LS about where his vote's going to end up.
The scum translation of this is: "Hey guys I'm totally not scum so when this dude ends up flipping town please don't blame me, this is my warning to you that I actually don't have a really good reason for voting this dude but I'm going to do it anyway because I have to and please don't hurt me after"
just kill him
Ugh was anyone questioning if Bats was town? Hint there wasn't. I usually like to put my vote on someone who I think are scum but unfortunately we just have a bunch of lurkers so it better to shoot fish a in barrel on this lynch. Also on my vote on Shock I intially thought he could be scum but then read his meta and discovered he at best would be a policy lynch since he haven't posted much but his large posts looked better on second look. Also at the time you haven't posted much but I do think you're town just wrong on my alignment though
EBWOP: I meant you and Yamato are town but you both wrong on my alignment
On June 10 2015 06:41 wherebugsgo wrote: alright, done throwing a tantrum and I'm going to play to my win condition now. Before I move on, though, one thing is clear:
LS IS STILL THE BEST LYNCH. We need to consolidate quickly or we risk no-lynching. Possibly worse, we risk lynching into a player who hasn't even done anything yet, on pure policy. Yes, lurkers are bad. Yes, lynching lurkers is nice, but ONLY when you have no decent alternative.
This game is actually not as bad as ones I've been in before, given that BM is BM and probably scum anyway, and he's the major reason this game sucks (because there happen to be some people who somehow agree with his shit logic)
To give you an idea of what you are sheeping if you agree with BM, just take a look at this gem:
On June 08 2015 15:47 Bill Murray wrote:
On June 08 2015 15:18 FreezingFoot wrote:
On June 08 2015 15:01 Bill Murray wrote: ##unvote ##vote: WBG
Can you explain this?
ad hominem is a logical fallacy and indicative of scum
On June 09 2015 12:06 Bill Murray wrote:
On June 09 2015 11:46 LightningStrike wrote: Bugs I think activity will pick up soon don't rage quit like that and I also think your town :o
you're an idiot
anyway there's not much else to say about BM other than he's probably one of the bottom 3 players on this forum regardless of this alignment, and of all the talk of policy lynching in this game is probably the only player who is consistently worthy of one. From my recollection his town play is actually not this cringy so perhaps I am being a little overzealous here, but I do not ever recall a time where I found BM adequately established his own innocence or provided anything useful in terms of scumhunting. Let's leave it at that-I doubt that anyone is willing to lynch BM today but we'll need to lynch him to win the game eventually.
As for why LS is still the best lynch for today:
1. LS continues to exhibit one of the most classic scum traits. A lack of effort, even under pressure.
To give you an idea, his "meta case" on me being town was completely inaccurate. Here are the things he said:
On June 09 2015 05:53 LightningStrike wrote: Okay bugs is totes town he got very similar formatting and stuff to his latest town games to his scum games and his line of questioning to FreezingFoot is also similar how did his line of questioning in his town games. Also Bugs I do tend to do that hey I will be back later stuff a lot regardless of my alignment Also I truly was bored on the smurf debate mainly because it isn't exactly important to know who the smurf is although would be helpful for meta purposes :o Now that the game isn't focused on the great smurf debate I also got a meta read on bats being town he always a interesting person I just hope he doesn't lynch himself again :O Onegu haven't done much so null on him meta wise.
Jesus, can this be more obvious? Look how many words he uses to say almost completely worthless things. Who cares if LS has town reads? They are not even substantiated by anything. Which questions did I ask of other players in previous games? How is my formatting similar, and what the hell does that have to do with alignment? Which games of mine did he read and why does he not provide concrete examples here?
Another good question to ask would be why he never mentions yamato or tries to convince people to vote yamato after voting yamato himself. In his town games LS generally tends to do this. He asks other people about the reads he has at that moment, just like any other townie would do. Instead, LS quickly moves off yamato after yamato enters the thread (and until yamato entered the thread LS made no effort to convince anyone of his supposed read, which had to be one of the meekest things I've ever seen)
The part that proves LS is full of shit is this post:
On June 09 2015 22:19 LightningStrike wrote: Okay I back and will answer Breshke's question regarding WBG's meta: From my research he tends to be much more aggressive and more thoughtful as town than scum which demonstrated pretty damn well this game when he pressured FreezingFoot and made a case on me although he is wrong on my alignment since I know Town. As scum he tends to more lurky and not as thoughtful from what I can tell from the couple of games I had checked out from the database regarding his meta. Also @Onegu I didn't scumread you for not claiming VT I just only said you cashed in on claiming VT Day 1 as scum before(XXX) and everyone is VT by default since the Miller is not selfaware also there wasn't much stuff in the thread to work with? I got the following as Town: WBG: Meta which I just explained. FreezingFoot: His reaction to WBG seemed pretty townie and looked townie outside of it. bats: Seems much more in line of his town meta compared to scum meta from my experience with him where the only time I played vs his scum he was I think a little bit more serious that game. Breshke: He seemed much more focused this game and willing to ask questions more than his normal scum game which I manged to catch him before BM: Although I think he's wrong on his meta read on WBG he did push it and he actually believes and looked townie for pushing someone who I think is Top Town. The rest are Null just wish a couple of the people would start posting more
I am NOT lurky as scum. I am far from it, and some of my most post-heavy games have been as scum. I am constantly on the attack and I lead lynches as either alignment. I also make cases regardless of alignment. Look at Storm Mafia, Mini Mafia X, My Little Pony, Couples Therapy, Arkham City or Space Station and tell me in which of those games I lurked. In fact, I don't think I've ever lurked when playing mafia on this forum.
On June 10 2015 03:20 LightningStrike wrote: I just got home and got a question:
On June 10 2015 00:41 batsnacks wrote: Who are you lynching today LS? You need to convince 7 people...
Maybe one of the lurkers because the game is pretty inactive and there might be potential mafia in there as much I hate policy lynching lurkers it might be out best shot hitting scum :\
Again, meekness. Look at how little LS wants to strike a confrontation with someone.
This is so obvious in his vote patterns too. Votes someone, then completely backs off almost immediately at the first sign of resistance.
Can anyone tell me what LS's opinions are this game? Can you tell me, based on those opinions, what the reasons are?
Who does LS think is scum and who has LS actually pushed? I certainly can't answer any of these questions without reading LS's posts, and every time I read them I discover gems like these:
On June 10 2015 05:30 LightningStrike wrote: Honestly despite the fact I know how to read Stutters he prob the best lynch even it's on policy and I hope he picks up before EoD so I can get a better tell on him. Just a reminder this just on pure policy from me and I normally don't do that but it prob the best place to put my vote in my opinion for now. ##Vote: Stutters
A constant barrage of worry from LS about where his vote's going to end up.
The scum translation of this is: "Hey guys I'm totally not scum so when this dude ends up flipping town please don't blame me, this is my warning to you that I actually don't have a really good reason for voting this dude but I'm going to do it anyway because I have to and please don't hurt me after"
just kill him
Ugh was anyone questioning if Bats was town? Hint there wasn't. I usually like to put my vote on someone who I think are scum but unfortunately we just have a bunch of lurkers so it better to shoot fish a in barrel on this lynch. Also on my vote on Shock I intially thought he could be scum but then read his meta and discovered he at best would be a policy lynch since he haven't posted much but his large posts looked better on second look. Also at the time you haven't posted much but I do think you're town just wrong on my alignment though
If no one was questioning if bats was town what the fuck is the point of saying he's town
On June 10 2015 06:55 Kickstart wrote: Bill is being clowny. Foot read my post on LS, succinctly tells why I think he is scummy.
Also LS still ignoring my rather simple request to scum read someone other than lurkers.
Honestly I think the active players are town but if I had to stab a chance of someone being scum from the actives maybe BM but I still think he's most likely town here.
On June 10 2015 06:52 FreezingFoot wrote: I am HIGHLY against LS since most of what you said could also come from his town meta. He is ALWAYS this passive, and I wonder
I didn't understand the self-focused point. I think the best point in your case is the part where he calls yamato scum but does nothing with it. But it also fits his passiveness as either alignment.
If you take aggressiveness alone, you should be strongly townreading BM. BM is a WAY better lynch today, seconded only by shockey
I don't count aggressiveness as a scum trait.
BM is scum because he is pushing bad ideas and because he has a history of pushing bad lynches and being a brute as scum.
I meant that if passiveness is a scum trait, in the other hand, BM must be town under your conception.
I am totally against voting LS today.
it's not a scum trait. Unwillingness to encounter confrontation is different from passiveness/complacency as I described in my previous post.
Perhaps passiveness is a bad word to describe the behaviour that LS has right now. My interpretation of LS's posts is that he does things so that he will go unnoticed. Townies don't do that consciously. I get the impression that with every post, LS has this in mind.
I would do that regardless on my alignment in these type of slow games :o
EPT
I guess Yamato rolled scum for the 4th time in a row 
Also I truly was bored on the smurf debate mainly because it isn't exactly important to know who the smurf is although would be helpful for meta purposes :o Now that the game isn't focused on the great smurf debate I also got a meta read on bats being town he always a interesting person I just hope he doesn't lynch himself again :O Onegu haven't done much so null on him meta wise.![[image loading]](http://www.2ndhandbarking.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/dogbarking.jpg)
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