EPT/in
Newbie Student Mafia X
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plotspot
800 Posts
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plotspot
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XD | ||
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plotspot
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*celebrate good times come on* | ||
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plotspot
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On May 22 2015 22:20 Rels wrote: So plotspot just posted another excuse to not do much. I don't have any reads on him, due to him not posting anything, but I would agree lynching him if he doesn't step up. List of people I would agree to lynch atm, in order: BM plotspot scott SL 27nb batsnacks hahahaha, oh god, lol what excuse? I'm reading the thread right now | ||
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plotspot
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On May 22 2015 07:36 batsnacks wrote: above is THE JOYOUS, LAKE below is KEEPING STILL, MOUNTAIN Influence. Success. When a weak element is above (the lake) and a strong element is below (the mountain), their powers attract each other so that they unite. This brings about success, for all success depends on the effect of mutual attraction Perseverance furthers. By keeping still within while experiencing joy without, one can prevent the joy from going to excess and hold it within proper bounds. This is the meaning of, "Perseverance furthers." To take a maiden to wife brings good fortune Heaven and earth attract each other and thus all creatures come into being. From the attractions they exert we can learn the nature of all beings in heaven and on earth. A lake on the mountain: The image of influence. Thus the superior man encourages people to approach him By his readiness to receive them. A mountain with a lake on its summit is stimulated by the moisture from the lake. It has this advantage because its summit does not jut out as a peak but is sunken. The image counsels that the mind should be kept humble and free, so that it may remain receptive to good advice. People soon give up counseling a man who thinks that he knows everything better than anyone else. The influence shows itself in the calves of the legs. Misfortune. Tarrying brings good fortune. In movement, the calf of the leg follows the foot; by itself it can neither go forward nor stand still. Since the movement is not self-governed, it bodes ill. One should wait quietly until one is impelled to action by a real influence. Then one remains uninjured. wth is this thing? can you elaborate batsnacks? | ||
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plotspot
800 Posts
sh*t, I won't get this conversation unless some friendly soul explains to me what "scum qt" means in this context or in general. qt as in cutie, right? but "scum qt"? also "wonders of scum qt"? wat? | ||
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plotspot
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plotspot
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On May 22 2015 10:54 27ninjabunnies wrote: Are we going to mislynch me again on day 1 BM? Glad we can agree on something. Though I am curious, why do you think he is mafia? I saw something about dumbtelling, but I am unsure exactly what the dumbtell was on. I will neither confirm nor deny I am a role. I'll leave that up for mafia to decide. However, I could possibly be down for a breshke lynch if we don't lynch you today. I see a bus in the midst. Also, I'm back. Work sucked ass. Worked a double today, only made 45$ the entire day. Server life man. I expected more posting than this, and am highly disappointed. Everyone who is considered a newbie, answer this: What is the most important thing you think has happened in the game so far? (p10,last post) concerning last question: I think a lot of smoke bombs have been thrown out. Mafia most likely has already poked in to test the waters. Some 5-corner logics about knowing or not knowing whether "scum quick topic" has been opened prior the 24 h of silent prelude. | ||
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plotspot
800 Posts
On May 22 2015 12:26 Tictock wrote: Something I can totally agree on. I'm close to heading to bed. I'm going to do some rereading while considering some of the points made here but unless I find something better to go on I'll join this vote for now. Breshke got it right though. I was playing some video game for too long and it was already 4:49, so I decided I just post some sort of notice of action/activity. Is it better than not post something at all? It depends on the people obviously, reading up to here (p13/first post) you and BM thought it suspicious. If I didn't do anything, then other people would find it suspicious for other reasons. | ||
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plotspot
800 Posts
no biggie voting for me, i consider it a success if I make it out alive in D1, there must be something about my posting style that rubs people off or makes me suspicious, I'm working on it. But SL and Breshke were dead right on their interpretation of my first post... Last game I played there was this guy called Bourneq who also interpret so much in every little thing I did, but he ended up interpreting it wrong, so what's the meaning? How do I have faith in people, although they are active like you are and investigating, but keep reading certain things wrong? Even if you're town, I may not be liable to trust your scum readings... Last games there I played there was this guy called Trfel, he was town, he was also very active and willing, but he ended up confusing the hell out of everyone by tunneling and sorts, so mafia had an easy game. For me this showed that activity isn't the key (sometimes it's even detrimental to town), but the ability of people to read correctly. Does anyone want to ask me something? | ||
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On May 23 2015 00:15 disformation wrote: Okay finished with work. Will be on my way home soon. Should back in around 1h.  First glance at the interaction between ticktoc and BM I got the feeling that BM was just trolling around trying to provoke a reaction from ticktoc, which he got. Otherwise a bit spamy, but I can see towny posts here and there. Will read more carefully when I am back at home. But I still want to see some more action from him today. @plotspot: You stated that you think that mafia is/was already active in the thread trying to test the waters. Who would you pick out as Mafia? @Sulfurus: Did your reads on Breshke change? Who would be your #2 lynch after Breshke, if he is still your top scum? "@plotspot: You stated that you think that mafia is/was already active in the thread trying to test the waters. Who would you pick out as Mafia?" To be honest I'm not quite sure. About Breshke: Initially I thought Breshke was scummy for his quick jumping on SL. But then I figured it was just his way of applying pressure on him to see his (SL's) true color. Breshke appears very townish. Breshke is like the NB VII game I played with him, very collected and professional. Though I have to point out, it didn't help us in the end since town still lost, when he couldn't figured out the real cuprits. About BM: he is always borderline provocative and scummy. But I think he is intelligent and a keen observer. These are the two that have given me some scum vibe so far. Last game (NV VIII) I was replaced due to illness. This was a game where I observed that scums are usually REACTIONARY and CAREFUL of some sorts. After having a first impression of the thread by having read it all, I will filter-read everyone now in order to find patterns of reactionary and careful behaviour. Yeah expect something in less than to 6 hours, I'm actually still at work and totally underestmiated to time it took for all this again. I'm lucky that my work load is rather flexible, but still, it's already out of plan here. | ||
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plotspot
800 Posts
This concerns the first 6:43 hours into the game. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OuI7Efv.png) Figure 1: Posts by people according to time You don't need to understand every bit of connotation I made. "red" means the first post being done, which might confuse a few since it's the color used for scumming. If you have any questions, please ask, while I'm still here. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2FFn2lI.png) Figure 2: Interaction parameters This should be read as "person on the left talking TO or ABOUT" person above. So for example a Tictock -> BillM = 8 means Tictock has talked to BM 8 times or it could mean he talked to him 6 times and 4 times he mentioned him in a conversation. Here is how I rate the interaction. replying/taking stance in a general way:0,5 name mentioning: 0,5 casing: 1 asking question: 1 answering question: 1 voting: 2 unvoting: -1 saying unrelated stuff: 0 saying something about oneself or announcement for public: 1 --- OK with that done I will summarize my opinion about everyone up to 6:43 so far, before I go to bed. Tomorrow more. | ||
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2. 27ninjabunnies (27): didn't have many posts and made an early showing (3 posts within the first 30 min) to disappear for almost 4 hours. Coming back with a round of question directed at especially the newbie players. Proceeds to townread Sulfurus. I need to see more for a decision. Null read. 3. disformation (DI): My scumread so far. He's fairly active in the first 3 hours, posting really in between the conversation of others with fine, careful, uncommiting. While others seem fairly focused on their conversation, he's kinda lurking and picking cherries. You have to go back, read and see what I mean. I'd vote for him. 4. Bill Murray (BM): I have trouble reading him. He seems like he's really enjoying the game and doesn't really give a fuck. From 3:00 to 4:00 he was in some sort of a posting streak, where I think he really tried to analyzes the situation. Null read so far. 5. Batsnacks (BS): he was the guy who opened with this Iching thing, then was active for 2 h and vanished (into the night maybe). For all I see he could be mafia trying to poke in, than seeing nothing really endangering him and backs off. I do notice though he has 3 interaction points towards SL, but SL seems to kinda ignore him. 6. Tictock (TT): the most active person in my opinion, he has interaction towards with BM, SL, BR, BS. All 7 points or above, but he hasn't gotten the same resonance from the others back, which means he talks to them in the same amount as he talks about them, in which case they don't feel the need to reply. I think many posts from TT are strange: like implying SL disappearing (when it's normal and his style is like this) as some sort of anomaly, or not noticing BM was posting ironically (when he said his vote on 27 was serious) when to me it's clear as day, or befriending Batsnacks all of a sudden. I don't know it sounds paradoxical but I can only townread and scumread him at the same time. There is no null here. 7. Breshke (BR): The only thing I found strange at the beginning is how he quickly zoned in on SL. But I think he is smart and later also gave a reason why he did that without really thinking SL is scum. I think they both reach a point where they think about each other: "hmm I cannot scumread you just yet". I'm leaning towards town with Breshke, for his activity and sense-making so far. 8. Sulfurus (SU): sure is a bold thing to vote with the first post. And he doesn't seem to have second thoughts about his read either. I kinda like this attitude, but I need to see more posts and make a decision on him 9. scott31337 (SC): appears rather late to just talke about BM and SL, not really trying to drive some conversation. I need to see more. Ok that's it, I need to go to bed now. Tomorrow I hope to be able to catch up and make more reads about 27ninja, Sulfurus, scott and the three that had not yet posted at that time, Rels, boxerfred and Barakos. ##Vote: disformation | ||
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plotspot
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Could be another reason though. Would be nice to hear him clarify. I think it's a pity. | ||
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Rels: referring too much to others opinion, reading thread very carefully, the way RELS sets up lynch is also very comfortable (like lynch inactives), giving orders to others, thanks my post but posts no further thoughts, in comparison to Disinformation who displays overall anxiety in his reads and thoughts, Rels looks like he can handle any sudden change, there is nothing clouding his mind, others apparently have to do more than Rels, you bet if I was Vig I would have shot her. | ||
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plotspot
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But now also 9 pages to go now until I'm REALLY up-to-date. If I see that SL is a scum with my latest reads, you can be sure I will vote him. | ||
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plotspot
800 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/59G2jPL.jpg) Figure 1: Posting by people on D1 How can you use this figure? I think it is usually for getting an overview on a person's activity. How does a person behave? When are his sleep times (I highlighted big absence time with grey)? When could he be possibly lurking? When does it feels like he really is just AFK doing some stuff? It also shows some interaction and sort of summarizes in broad if you don't want to filter-read someone just yet. Due to this I think I was able to read people deeper. | ||
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plotspot
800 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jwCmanz.png) Figure 2: Interactions between players How can you use this figure? Quick overview on who is scumreading or townreading whom, and who pressured whom by talking to them or about them. Is there a balance in the ask/reply ratio (row = acting people, column = receiving people). For some cases it might not be relevant anymore but, it's the whole interaction of D1 and not just the first 6hs, so maybe it can still count for something. With that done, I will proceed with my read based on D1. I will consider dropping these sheets as they really take so much time, in order to proceed to reading N1, in time to catch up with the more recent events. | ||
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plotspot
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Sicklucker: I admit I might be biased here, from his early posts on D1 4 hours into the game. I had the feeling he really thought about the game and was wondering how to progress it. From then on it was just his natural style, dropping in, posting in streaks, discussing stuff with people online and then vanishing again. I felt he was genuine, it was his style. Ok starting from post 357 (on my sheet) he starts to randomly scum leaning people without providing long-winded reasons. I guess he has me sold when he scumleaned Rels, who I admitted I thought was scum for reasons I posted. So yeah to D1 I think he is town. Disformation: I originally scummed him for his first 3 hours, but as I went on reading more of him, I felt he had this sort of “I’m not sure about this or that”. He is one of the most active, but combine it anxiety for search and a slight bit of uncertainty lingering in his posts, I can only see him as town. Right now I am aware that he sort of has gotten into a battle with Boxerfred, so I will look into this more deeper. Bill Murray: I believe this guy. He just doesn’t give a crap, yeah he might not be a helpful town (though you never know, he might have a reason to stay more low-key), but mafia? I’ll consider if other options have run out. Tictock: oh yeah Tictock. I totally believe he is town. He is too active, too anxious. I feel he is almost to impatient to get results and reads in. In my opinion he would help town even more if he paced down a little bit. I believe mafia can use his wind to sailstab other townies if he isn’t careful. Just my opinion. But there, town. I’ve overcome his strangeness somewhat and believe it to be wrong chemistry if we misread eachother. Breshke: Do I need to elaborate on this case? He has a sharp mind and is noticing and questioning things I can only say in retrospect: yeah good point. If Breshke is mafia, we are all dead. Boxerfred: Is town because his stream-of-consiousness way of posting. I cannot imagine mafia being able to simulate this. He thinks:”hmm how can I solve this, oh right there was this thing I didn’t consider *posts*,… ah wait this thing too *post*. Beside that he had the slip about the coaching thread. I cannot imagine you would plan this as mafia. No way. The way I guess he is in some sort of heat with Disinformation is due to they both being uncertain and in a way naturally biased on how to perceive certain things. But I will look into N1 soon. Regarding 27ninjabunnies, Sulfurus, Batsnacks and Barakos, while I was able to “deeply” the others these were the ones I couldn’t confidently read. This is where I need to filter-read them. If you were to pin me down now, I’d say BS and BA slight town read. SU and 27 slight scum. But let’s see. | ||
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plotspot
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I did, but you noticed google has become more stupid? It displays me some gas companies based on my region, too smart to be useful.^^ | ||
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Ok, enough fun. I will go to sleep now and will provide my reads tomorrow. What a day, never thought I'd use my whole Sunday for this. | ||
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plotspot
800 Posts
On May 25 2015 08:56 sicklucker wrote: ...im mafia... sure do HAHAHA^^. okay. RIGHT THERE he admits it. | ||
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plotspot
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On May 25 2015 09:00 Breshke wrote: Also SL you should try reading peoples posts sometimes. If you didn't notice plot thinks you are town. The misunderstanding thing here is "you". I think he meant the plural use of you, all people that are currently watching him. This was not directed (solely) at me. | ||
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plotspot
800 Posts
On May 25 2015 08:59 plotspot wrote: sure do HAHAHA^^. okay. RIGHT THERE he admits it. HEY ATTENTION, I modified a quoted post from SL, he is not saying "I'm mafia" ok? Search for his original post for the real quote. | ||
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plotspot
800 Posts
On May 25 2015 09:07 Breshke wrote: Look at the bolded plot. He thinks you are pushing him today. This is what I mean he doesn't read anything Previously I said I thought he was town for D1, but I also said that I will look into his actions N1. I think it's fair that he thinks I will push him D2 about his actions on N1. He thinks I cannot be his partner and when RIGHT NOW I'm in a state of considering looking into him N1. Just a minor thing Breshke, but I do think he read everything. | ||
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plotspot
800 Posts
On May 25 2015 09:12 sicklucker wrote: I did think plot voted me tho. Someone was asked to vote me then did I sapose it was someone else all new players look the same to me wut? At never a time did I vote you. hmm maybe Breshke is right and you sometimes don't read everything. | ||
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plotspot
800 Posts
On May 25 2015 09:24 Tictock wrote: Guys SL and plots are probably mafia team. I'm still at work so cant back this up with quotes, but look at how SL and plots defend each other D1, thenthis whole interaction between them today is so wierd. It is the first time they talk to each other all game. Really read. BM if you think I could be scum please reread my posts regarding those two and tell me if I'm wrong. This is why I think you're town TT. I can explain it, but will you believe me? I was relaxing from the stress and SL is the only one with the kind of posting style I can do it with. Posting crap like that with you would be impossible. I say please, please consider that you could be wrong. Please. On May 25 2015 09:31 batsnacks wrote: I'm going to play the asshole and point out that plots' spreadsheet is completely useless. Yes it looks like it took a lot of time and spending a lot of time on the game is townie but the spreadsheet itself is not useful for anything but activity wifom. His reads are not as strong as I would expect for someone who believes they are working some amazing mafia finding tool. And if he didn't believe the spreadsheet were an amazing mafia finding tool why would he spend so much time on it? No biggie, I already know this will be used against me one day if I couldn't draw out the information I hope I could with this effort. The only thing is whether you believe my explanation? I wanted to finish it for D1 as a sort of principle and it's personally fun for me to see how it will look like. Yeah I do see that it doesn't really help me alot and I will probably stop. It's a bit similar to your Iching thing, you posted it and then noticed with the people who answered it you couldn't make something useful with it. You may have thought you'll get into problems if you post some half-assed results so you didn't, but then you got problems with other people pointing out why you weren't consistent and not reading anything from it. Ok, now I'm really off to sleep. See what happens if you post crap in front of confused townies? I should have sticked to my plan and go to sleep immediately. Last post from me till after bedtime. I promise. | ||
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plotspot
800 Posts
On May 25 2015 14:54 Tictock wrote: Now for my case against plots. Plots has made 2 reads posts, he mentions SL both times. His first read: And his latest read: He highly stresses SL's play in the first 4 hours of the game as showing Just for Fun I'm leaving all the posts SL makes in the first 5 hours of the game. Do you agree with plots read? Are you trying to deliberately read me wrong? I clearly ranged the time from 4h00h to 5h00 (this is p11) where SL dominated the thread with conversation. This was a sign of town slip for me, like Boxerfred town-slipping when he mentions his coaching QT. At never a moment did I say “I stress SL’s play from 0h00 to 4:00” as my ground to read him, but you accuse me of doing that in your bolded part. Why? On May 25 2015 14:54 Tictock wrote: Plots also says he's sold by SL scumleaning Rels. For refference lets look at where SL does that, Now we have plots own reads on Rels. I think it's worth noting he never did give a read on Rel until AFTER he flipped green. Quite an interesting read and an interesting timing on it as well. I've bolded a few of his points he mentions as to why he scums Rel. Do these points sound like anybody else we know? I'm also having a hard time understanding why a townie (a newbie btw) would post this after a green flip. Rels is not going "oh shit we just lost an active town", rather he's saying "yea I woulda shot this dude too, thought he was scum". I also can't help but notice he posts this an hour before he makes his read on SL, like he's making sure he has that statement out there before using it to support a read. His weak town reads on SL are also the start of my association case so keep them in mind. I have more to come, but that feels like enough for one post. There is a simple reason why I posted if AFTER Rels flipped green and it has nothing to do with your wild theories. Time reasons. I originally planned to be finished with the sheet 2 hours or so before EoN, for personal reasons. Then I would prepare my reads and post them. For Rels, who at that time I thought was scum, I had prepared key points the whole day. Notice how they are not fully written sentences. … fast forward… I was done with the sheet plus minus 5 minutes in on EoN. No way I could make a case on Rels before he flipped. And then he flipped green and rekted my plans. No way I was going to make a scumcase on someone just flipping green, so I got these notes out fast, just to say I did have thoughts on Rels (to close it up on him since he’s dead now), though embarrassing it is that my read was wrong. It was not to posture up for the SL read later. It was just naturally that I mentioned Rels in combination with SL because at that time (before EoD1) only he and me thought Rels could flip scum. Also please specify here: “Do these points sound like anybody else we know?” Who do you mean? You pick out 2 points from this list and use it to compare a whole person, ignoring the rest of the points? What is that method? From what I can see you try too hard to read me, without really understanding how I roll, so you’re like ignoring 50% just only picking out the 50% that suits you. | ||
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plotspot
800 Posts
On May 25 2015 16:04 Tictock wrote: Back to my case on Plots. I quoted his read on Rels before, and pointed out how his reasons for scumming Rels also applied to SL. Course since SL is his scum partner he can't see that. This time I want to emphasis a different part. Plots mentions Dis here... and is using him as an example of town behavior. But wait... Didn't plots Vote to lynch Dis day 1? Now Dis is an example of town behavior? Humm... + Show Spoiler + On May 24 2015 06:49 cakepie wrote: ～ Vote Count ～ scott31337 (6) : Rels, disformation (3) : Barakos, plotspot (1) : Bill Murray, 27ninjabunnies (1) : batsnacks (1) : Bill Murray (0) : boxerfred (0) : Breshke (0) : sicklucker (0) : Sulfurus (0) : Not voting (1) : scott31337 Currently, scott31337 is set to be lynched! The cycle will end at Saturday, May 23 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00), only 10 minutes from this post!!! remain as you are reading this. Remember, voting is mandatory! Place your votes in this thread. If you see any vote out of place, holler at us and we will look into it. Interesting, I guess Dis went from most likely scum to epitomizing town behavior in plots eyes. Ok it’s nice of you trying to read me, but do you have a feeling for time? Get your facts straight out first, maybe? I scumread Dis entirely based on the 6 hours, and I even emphasized it when I made that read. Why did I vote for him? I freakin ran out of time. I posted my first sheet with 6 hours game info 28 hours into D1 and had a hard time catching up. Somewhere between 28hours and EoD (48hours), as I continued with my sheet I was more and more townreading Dis. Why didn’t I bother switching? Because it didn’t matter, as Scott was clearly the lynch that day. This is a kind of philosophy that I know some people do not agree to, they consider voting as some sort of taking stance, even if doesn’t matter to the end result. They probably don’t want to face the shit of others asking them “meh if you think he is town why don’t you switch”. My response: it didn’t matter that time. My read progressed on Dis from scum to town. He is not in danger of getting lynched. It is fine as it is. Do you understand Tictock? Do you understand my reasoning, even if you think it’s strange or don’t agree to this sort of mentality? Can you accept this as some sort of logical sequence and not a ploy of ploy to be deceptive? On May 25 2015 16:04 Tictock wrote: Ok I promised some association stuff. Don't forget I already talked about Plots weak town reads on SL. Guess who else made a weak townread on SL? Hint: + Show Spoiler + On May 22 2015 11:44 scott31337 wrote: Dinner was good and now time to get to work... I'm unsure what to think of BM's early vote, maybe just to get some discussion started? He unvoted though. SL loves to fakeclaim as town. +1 SL has also been rather protective of plots since he(plots) started posting. That seems like quite a bit of defending from SL... Then we get to D2 when they actually interact a little. Bre pointed this out earlier but I'll repost it, The bolded part NEVER HAPPENED. Course SL is willing to just lie about that and he certaintly will never respond to and questions about it, rather plots does it for him. Humm, even if plots thinks SL is town, why is he defending SL here? Shouldn't town!plots go "Hey wait, why is he saying that I'm pushing him when I just townread him" rather than "oh of course my buddy SL was thinking I was going to do this kus of stuff I said earlier" ? Plus there's this weird all too friendly/joking attitude between them starting here. It... feels forced. Like they realized they needed to interact since they've never really poked each other. Doing so in such a joking manner is liable to get overlooked, but it REALLY stuck out to me. I mean plots has never been so active in this game before that page of posts so why is he suddenly so comfortable interacting with SL? Sure they are townreading each other, but this is still way too casual imo. God, how do I handle this chunk? 1. the first time SL defended me: I feel like he isn’t really defending me that much. He is just pointing out the obvious, while he has his active phase in the thread. For you it was not obvious because you were suspicious of me. Besides, Breshke also figured out the obvious. You spun too much from a simple good night post from me. 2. the second time SL “defended” me: I think he is overreacting in his natural way to the effort I made. Do you really think he wouldn’t vote me if he thinks I’m scum? Like he keeps forever to his caption: “never lynch PL never ever”? Do you think SL is that stupid? No possible way it was SL posting strategically for something? 3. “That BOLDED PART never happened”: Yeah because I don’t have the time yet. I haven’t closely looked at him N1 yet. N1 something seemed to have happened why everyone thinks he is scum. As I posted earlier I’m willing to look at it. 4. “Humm, even if plots thinks SL is town, why is he defending SL here? Shouldn't town!plots go "Hey wait, why is he saying that I'm pushing him when I just townread him" rather than "oh of course my buddy SL was thinking I was going to do this kus of stuff I said earlier" ?” You again didn’t get your facts straight. Why would I be saying "Hey wait, why is he saying that I'm pushing him when I just townread him". That would make no sense. I said I was going to look on him closer N1 even though I townread him for D1. He reads it and says he expects me to push him. Why is this illogical? 5. Why did I “defend” him there when he could have resolved it himself: 2 reasons. I was in a posting streak. Plus it was Breshke who raises this point and not some noob. I was sure to correct Breshke as a valuable town member, preventing him from going off. I also corrected Breshke on a point earlier. 6. My joking with SL: I explained about it very clearly here. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24311053 But I see. It’s a mentality problem. You’d never be able to do something like this so most likely you can’t wrap that concept around your head. It wasn’t forced at all. SL was the only one there and I had my fun. On May 25 2015 16:04 Tictock wrote: Last point. Look at plots last reads post one last time... Notice anything missing? Thats right, scum reads. He says Sul and 27nb are "slight scum" but that's it. Then the rest of his posts since are stuff with SL and then nothing... just another townread on me and responds to BS about his charts. This is another person who is very clearly not trying to find scum, in fact he spent more time explaining why he was GOING to scum read a confirmed town than he's spent trying to find scum today. Yeah you probably noticed the reason by now. I was preparing for a scum read on Rels when the results blew up on my face. I wanted still to post some reading results based on the effort I did so far. Naturally containing no scumread. I asked for time to read 27ninjabunnies, Sulfurus, Batsnacks and Barakos. Why does it look like I’m not scum hunting, when I'm still willing to look into others but couldn't just do yet due to time reasons? | ||
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plotspot
800 Posts
On May 25 2015 18:58 plotspot wrote: Are you trying to deliberately read me wrong? I clearly ranged the time from 4h00h to 5h00 (this is p11) where SL dominated the thread with conversation. This was a sign of town slip for me, like Boxerfred town-slipping when he mentions his coaching QT. At never a moment did I say “I stress SL’s play from 0h00 to 4:00” as my ground to read him, but you accuse me of doing that in your bolded part. Why? This was absolutely not clear from the post I quoted. Please show me the posts SL made that so impressed you. This will avoid me getting confused.[/quote] 1.” This was absolutely not clear from the post I quoted.” Wat? I said the first time: “At around 4 hours into the game he seemed to have an hour where he dominates the thread with conversation” I said the 2nd time: “from his early posts on D1 4 hours into the game”. “from his early posts THAT STARTED on D1 4 hours into the game” Ok the second post is a bit ambiguous whether I mean 04:00+ or I mean 00:00 to 04:00, but if you combine with what I said the first time. I clearly stress on the time from 04:00 to 05:00. What I think funny about this game in general is like some people thinking: “man I’m the king, I’m cryptic, I’m careful, I’m good. But if I catch some scum it’s because he is stupid, makes stupid mistakes I would never do, slips regularly on the easiest logics”. If you applied your logic to me would you make such a stupid mistake and be inconsistent saying one time in the first post and a completely different time in another post? Isn’t it a bit too easy to catch scum like this? 2. Which posts did impress me?: There wasn’t one single post. He had a streak of consecutive posts where he tries to interact with BM, Breshke, Sulfurus and even freakin Scott. I like I said I had the feeling he tries to solve the game, making a bit more effort than “usually” (from what I saw), that’s why I townread him. On May 25 2015 19:10 Tictock wrote: Your right, that part is just me filling in some gaps. Still felt freaking weird how you post all that while also not being convinced that mafia NK'd him. Just don't understand motive as town there. I just bickered with Breshke for some technicalities (it’s Breshke). Minor thing. I did say later that I was pretty sure Rels was mafia NKed. On May 25 2015 19:10 Tictock wrote: The two points I bolded, which you were scumming him for, also apply very strongly to SL. Any opinions? I didn’t scum Rels for these 2 points only, it’s a complete package of the image I had of Rels, and these were only my notes. I wasn’t thinking they would explode on my face, when I posted them just as a closure to how far I got with the Rels read. “giving orders to others” is a really vague term to feast on, like basically anybody asking others to clarify could be giving them orders. It was just something peculiar about his “I like this I like that, you do this, I expect this, you still have to answer this” like some scum letting others do the work while they just observe what to make of it next, that I thought Rels was scum (exactly like jarjarbinks in my NB VII game). Same words but the style doesn’t apply to LS at all. But you cannot read which style I mean by just looking at “giving orders to others”. About the second one “Rels looks like he can handle any sudden change, there is nothing clouding his mind”. This is a bit similar to the first point. Rels looks like some sort of commander handling the battlefield. Not a style I see in LS, he just reacts to you guys, while certainly being strategically in his own way. This style sense is hard to explain. But yeah, I think you shouldn’t read deeper into my notes, as some sort of Jesus has spoken. There is so much more I imply in there which cannot be explained easily, especially if you picked out convenient parts for your case support. LOL Tictock, I can only repeat. Don't tunnel so hard on someone you can't understand yet. Stand back and consider you might be wrong, this will help town, I guarantee you. | ||
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On May 25 2015 19:10 Tictock wrote: This was absolutely not clear from the post I quoted. Please show me the posts SL made that so impressed you. This will avoid me getting confused. 1.” This was absolutely not clear from the post I quoted.” Wat? I said the first time: “At around 4 hours into the game he seemed to have an hour where he dominates the thread with conversation” I said the 2nd time: “from his early posts on D1 4 hours into the game”. “from his early posts THAT STARTED on D1 4 hours into the game” Ok the second post is a bit ambiguous whether I mean 04:00+ or I mean 00:00 to 04:00, but if you combine with what I said the first time. I clearly stress on the time from 04:00 to 05:00. What I think funny about this game in general is like some people thinking: “man I’m the king, I’m cryptic, I’m careful, I’m good. But if I catch some scum it’s because he is stupid, makes stupid mistakes I would never do, slips regularly on the easiest logics”. If you applied your logic to me would you make such a stupid mistake and be inconsistent saying one time in the first post and a completely different time in another post? Isn’t it a bit too easy to catch scum like this? 2. Which posts did impress me?: There wasn’t one single post. He had a streak of consecutive posts where he tries to interact with BM, Breshke, Sulfurus and even freakin Scott. I like I said I had the feeling he tries to solve the game, making a bit more effort than “usually” (from what I saw), that’s why I townread him. On May 25 2015 19:10 Tictock wrote: Your right, that part is just me filling in some gaps. Still felt freaking weird how you post all that while also not being convinced that mafia NK'd him. Just don't understand motive as town there. I just bickered with Breshke for some technicalities (it’s Breshke). Minor thing. I did say later that I was pretty sure Rels was mafia NKed. On May 25 2015 19:10 Tictock wrote: The two points I bolded, which you were scumming him for, also apply very strongly to SL. Any opinions? I didn’t scum Rels for these 2 points only, it’s a complete package of the image I had of Rels, and these were only my notes. I wasn’t thinking they would explode on my face, when I posted them just as a closure to how far I got with the Rels read. “giving orders to others” is a really vague term to feast on, like basically anybody asking others to clarify could be giving them orders. It was just something peculiar about his “I like this I like that, you do this, I expect this, you still have to answer this” like some scum letting others do the work while they just observe what to make of it next, that I thought Rels was scum (exactly like jarjarbinks in my NB VII game). Same words but the style doesn’t apply to LS at all. But you cannot read which style I mean by just looking at “giving orders to others”. About the second one “Rels looks like he can handle any sudden change, there is nothing clouding his mind”. This is a bit similar to the first point. Rels looks like some sort of commander handling the battlefield. Not a style I see in LS, he just reacts to you guys, while certainly being strategically in his own way. This style sense is hard to explain. But yeah, I think you shouldn’t read deeper into my notes, as some sort of Jesus has spoken. There is so much more I imply in there which cannot be explained easily, especially if you picked out convenient parts for your case support. | ||
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On May 25 2015 21:49 Breshke wrote: You too please plot. I feel like you and tictok are going to go round and round in circles with each other like i was with SL. Lets move on for now and see what else we think. Opinions on bunnies/my mini case/anyone else you find interesting? Seconding this motion. I see now in his (TT's) reply that there are certain points leading to why he misread me. And then there are still points I'd like to address. Sorry TT if you feel offended at any points. Certainly I was not addressing you directly with it any of the points you thought I meant you when I said "noobs" or "people think they are king". The first is just highlight the importance of Breshke where I always see the urgency to wipe out misunderstandings, it was purely coincidence that it concerned SL at that time. The second is something I've noticed for a while and used this opportunity to get off my chest: the general tendency of people to apply super safe mechanics for oneself but loose mechanics others. That doesn't make sense: if you (general you) think you'd never let such a mistake catch you, how can you hope to catch someone else for the same mistake? But ok I call it off for now, and move on to the things I really wanted to do. | ||
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Barakos: feels genuine. I believe what he says. He has an alerting but inoffensive way of expressing himself and most (if not all) his posts I can say: “hmm yeah I see the meaning behind it”. A possibly strange point which reinforce my town read on him is that he fantasizes about how scum QT looks like here. For me it’s hard to imagine scum would do that, I mean just for the thought of it at all. But here we have a townie imagining how things went in the scum QT and scott’s case is really a strange one, that leaves me wondering whether he betrayed his mates or whether they knew he had some time issues and just deal with it somehow. Sulfurus: Man I don’t know. I feel like Sulfurus is scummy. The thing is in his few post that he makes, he kinda makes sense. And he also backs it up where he can. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24306259 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24311596 The only thing that nags on me is, for being able to make such cutting posts, he is so lazy, and could actually contribute much more to town if he were to post. The question is why doesn’t he do it? Why isn’t he contributing more to town play with his abilities? Could he actually be mafia? Ok, I’ll think I can give a read on SL later. I said I would read on batsnacks and 27bunnies. I tried to filter-read them and didn’t really get anything worthwile. There are so many unquoted interactions, I better go through thread-reading. Maybe I can get better results there. | ||
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I see SL is getting scumrpoints for some strange suggestions about how to handle Scott’s case to which Barakos and Breshke replied and I would have to agree to their opinion. It’s simply the more plausible way to do things, rather than risking it. Starting here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24308265 Plus Rels posted his 7 reasons on him earlier :http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24308182 Personally, I think the reasoning is a mixed bag. Some understandable points, some arbitrary ones and one misunderstanding (5th reason). I never understood what SL meant when he said “anyway if I flip cop remember I have a green check on barkos”, which can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24310667 Finally I get his “cop cover” thing. That’s interesting and very systematic. At the start of D2, SL starts defending himself, as the votes are casted on him. I started to interact with him and Breshke and BM were also present. It kinda got messy about whether he read my posts, when he announces that “I push him”, which later got me into an argument with Tictock, as I interpreted it wrong. From all this I do get one point: SL isn’t paying attention or being deliberately confusing. For me this is additionally apparent here, when he thought I voted him (not sure whether he means D1 or just recently in D2), when in fact I didn’t: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24310965 BM’s case on SL based involving Scott’s filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24310974 After voting each other they unvoted each other because Scott’s filter mentions both of them. I see, it does make sense that Scott should have avoided talking about his scum mates, which gives them both some town points. Tictock’s case on SL contains the 7 points of Rels plus the vig claim controversy and a few other inconsistencies of SL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24311613 To which SL defends himself lastly with the Scott “spew”. Wow haven’t seen that yesterday, SL kinda gives up with this post, claiming VT: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24311750 Not sure what I should think from that. But he continues saying he has a hard time finding scum: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24311832 After that a few more resignative and whiny posts. That’s a first time I see this behavior from SL LOL Mason QT http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24312415 I guess this is his joke on me joking “SL and I are masons” earlier? Disformation’s interactions for a while with SL starting from here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24312642 he quickly admit’s that he has a hard time reading SL. I didn’t get anything useful from that interaction. Ok to summarize why I used all this. Things about SL are very shifty. He is walking on the edge. Is there any reason for him to do it when he is not scum? Is there a reason anyone who is town deliberately tries to walk on the edge, when he could pose himself to look more towny? Think about it… --- Okay, it's already late, I'm going to sleep. I have collected material about 27ninja from TT's, Breshke's and Disformation's case on him and will analyze it tomorrow. | ||
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Bunnies is scummed for bad reasoning from Tictock here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24309193 and I can definitely see it. It’s like there is no reason at all and on top of it the word “actually” relativates things too. Disinformation scumleaning ninjabunnies with involvement of SL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24310614 Dis is trying to establish a connection between 27 and SL. The thing that caught my eye here is that he is right about that hard word “shit” used to describe BS’s case on SL. Was that word really necessary or rather a sign of overreaction? Breshke’s case on bunnies starting here with SL joining the conversation: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24311950 She (bunnies) is mainly framed for inconsistencies of scum reading Dis first based on BF being scum too later when her opinions on BF changed to town it doesn’t affect Dis status as scum in her eyes. I mean I can understand that as the game progresses, you can have different reasons. And Breshke indirectly pushes her for a reasoning by asking what SL thinks about it. So far no reply from her to his? SL thinks bunnies is most likely Scotts partner. She shifted the vote of D1 3:2 in favor of dis getting lynched while still maintain the opinion that Scott is a good lynch. He also says her showing up 15 min before EoD is a sign of mafia rather than town, which in my opinion is not as strong as his previous reason. Disformation’s case recaps a few points on bunnies’ case. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24313047 Mainly her inactivity not responing to a few points he asked her. The latest one from Scott (p54): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24315946 supports SL’s case on her from that Scott voting, albeit with more clear reasoning and sequence. The rest is more on her being actually around without doing anything. With all these points together and the epitome of it here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24315717 I can only scumread here: ##vote: 27ninjabunnies | ||
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Boxerfred vs Disformation I understand that the conflict between boxerfred and Disinformation sparked with this post where Dis calls to attention the strange behaviour of BF on voting Scott: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24308711 Boxerfred kinda explodes on him, which gives him more town points in my eyes: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24309466 They kinda trade reasoning for a while before calling it off. In my opinion this was way blown up for just a “what can we see from who voted for scott and when”. But it happens. Like if you counter-quote something for the 5th time the real reasoning can kinda get blurred out like some partnership quarrels. It's not really a big deal. By now they pretty much confirm themselves as town to eachother, iirc? That would support my read about both of them. | ||
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And now let's suppose SL is the SK, how is his shifty behavior good for him as SK, as supposed to just play the safest town game and shoot everybody one after each other? Tictock is your reasoning that if he establishes himself too hard as town, mafia will just kill him? Wouldn't it better then just to scumhunt hard elimating this sort of threat, instead of playing "what am I?" My gut feeling is there is no SK.. I have yet to understand the benefit of stalling kills earlier on when it's the best time for you not to be found out. | ||
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If he makes the NK, ok town knows, but it doesn't change anything. If he doesn't kill, town will still speculate, and it doesn't change their perspective at all. An SK or one more mafia, town doesn't care. SK is only afraid of mafia. In theory, an SK therefore should try to scumhunt hard, but the problem is that it establishes himself as town, and he might get killed. So an SK plays like SL? Never really getting lynched as well as never really establising himself to look town? While he secretly figures out scum and shoots them at night? But wouldn't that provide even more of a reason to do some killing at night? Like if he hits town: "good no night wasted", if he its mafia:"wow I'm good (lucky)". Yeah I know, I kinda overrule and overlap a bit my previous post. But this is more reasoning from me why we don't have SK. | ||
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read my latest thought about it, maybe it clears out your part quoting about me. If not, ask again. I will detail it out. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rtucDs4.gif) | ||
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"Hey, you see if someone accuses you of being partners with another person, the none of you can make excuses or both of you know it's ridiculous. There nothing in between like one thinks it's true and other thing thinks it's bs. That's quantum mechanics." | ||
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On May 27 2015 04:03 Tictock wrote: I still say the way plots acts towards SL is pretty strange. His latest read on SL. He starts by taking about a post SL make, says he likes Bre's and Barak's reaction to it, but still seems to support. Here are the reactions he likes even though he seems to be supporting SL's point. Says SL's point is the plausible way of doing things without risk. Tictock I know you like to make cases against me, but how can you seriously make these elementary basic READING COMPREHENSION mistakes again and again and expect me to waste my time explaining them to you? This is what I wrote in my case that you read: I see SL is getting scumrpoints for some strange suggestions about how to handle Scott’s case to which Barakos and Breshke replied and I would have to agree to their opinion. It’s simply the more plausible way to do things, rather than risking it. Starting here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24308265 Like seriously, explain how I agree to SL’s points with this first before I go on to the rest of your points. Are you trolling me now? | ||
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Ok I'm on the BM and 27nb, will post opinions soon. | ||
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Unvote ##VOTE: Bill Murray | ||
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On May 27 2015 04:49 Tictock wrote: @ plots tbh man if I'm not reading you correctly, that's your own fault for not stating things more clearly Okay now back to you Mr. Tictock. While I understand that this might apply to more complicated things. It certainly doesn't apply to misreading "their" into "his" or whatever? Remember, you make a post that you want others to take seriously. Ok I'm not mad, just curious where you made the reading mistake here: Did you read this original version into: I see SL is getting scumrpoints for some strange suggestions about how to handle Scott’s case to which Barakos and Breshke replied and I would have to agree to their opinion. It’s simply the more plausible way to do things, rather than risking it. Starting here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24308265 Mistake version A: I see SL is getting scumrpoints for some strange suggestions about how to handle Scott’s case to which Barakos and Breshke replied and I would have to agree to his opinion. It’s simply the more plausible way to do things, rather than risking it. Starting here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24308265 or Mistake version B: I see SL is getting scumrpoints for some strange suggestions about how to handle Scott’s case to which Barakos and Breshke replied and I would have to agree to their opinion. But It’s simply the more plausible way to do things, rather than risking it. Starting here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24308265 or Mistake version C: I see SL is getting scumrpoints for some strange suggestions about how to handle Scott’s case to which Barakos and Breshke replied and I would have to agree to opinion.It’s simply the more plausible way to do things, rather than risking it. Starting here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24308265 or Mistake version D contained in your abrigded version: On May 27 2015 04:36 Tictock wrote: @plots I could swear this line is referring to SL, not the reactions of others. I just wanna know, you might be already biased (towards me), which is always dangerous and can naturally lead to this. It's no shame then. Just very normal. | ||
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On May 27 2015 04:48 Tictock wrote: Yea plots not being focused on EoD is distracting me too. Yeah and this is funny too, you are the one who makes a "case" about me or rather "prepare in a consistent manner paths to scumread me later" by thinking "somethings are strange". Certainly you do no want to say "I just say it's strange, but disregard it, pretend like I didn't post about it, it has no significance to the game, I actually shouldn't have posted it at all. Bleh how stupid of me". So you want everyone to focus on the matters of bunnies vs BM at that time, but posts this? Are you serious? Why not wait until after EoD2 if you really care about what you said? And then you blame me for a rather short reply that reflects only a fragment of what I wanted to post for distracting you on the bunnies vs BM matter? This guy, I don't even know. | ||
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On May 27 2015 04:03 Tictock wrote: Then his conclusion is a non-conclusion Idk doesn't really seem like he's trying to read ans is more still defending SL like he has been, just in a fancier post. Just how I'm seeing this. Ok tell me, have you thought about these two questions like I suggested at the end? Can you answer them? | ||
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I have no idea who did this but, it must be someone who thought I might be scum and checked on it with his night action on N1. Who the hell might do that? | ||
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On May 27 2015 07:44 Breshke wrote: Plot what makes you think now is a good time to talk about that I did this for general clarification. Usually town wants to discuss about town night actions right? But normally it's impossible without endangering the power role or people just are just poking in the dark without any info on the actual setup. Like this we can actually discuss about it. That's what I thought. | ||
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Unlike cop or veg, where it's simply impossible to discuss their actions unless someone actually claims such a role and endangers himself to the NK by mafia. | ||
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On May 27 2015 13:30 Tictock wrote: Here I'll show you how it's done You posted I read this and it tells me that you agree with SL's point you linked 1) You say you like SL's reasoning because 2) You also say Correct? + Show Spoiler + If so, please reread what I said again. On May 27 2015 04:03 Tictock wrote: He starts by taking about a post SL make, says he likes Bre's and Barak's reaction to it, but still seems to support. Here are the reactions he likes even though he seems to be supporting SL's point. Says SL's point is the plausible way of doing things without risk. My point? You cannot agree with SL Bre and Barak here. Bre and Barak are clearly against SL'd logic. If not please explain where my reading comprehension falls apart. It falls about because you don't connect the bolded parts together. On May 26 2015 11:04 plotspot wrote: I see SL is getting scumrpoints for some strange suggestions about how to handle Scott’s case to which Barakos and Breshke replied and I would have to agree to their opinion. It’s simply the more plausible way to do things, rather than risking it. Starting here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24308265 If I wanted to say what you said I did. It would obviously use one of the version I pointed out to you to avoid ambiguity: version A: I see SL is getting scumrpoints for some strange suggestions about how to handle Scott’s case to which Barakos and Breshke replied and I would have to agree to his opinion. It’s simply the more plausible way to do things, rather than risking it. Starting here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24308265 version B: I see SL is getting scumrpoints for some strange suggestions about how to handle Scott’s case to which Barakos and Breshke replied and I would have to agree to their opinion. But It’s simply the more plausible way to do things, rather than risking it. Starting here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24308265 And I also said "starting here". This is signaling a sequence. This post of SL started the interaction with Breshke and Barakos. Otherwise I would have used "here" or "I mean this post", something that indicates one post only which I for example did here: I never understood what SL meant when he said “anyway if I flip cop remember I have a green check on barkos”, which can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24310667 Finally I get his “cop cover” thing. That’s interesting and very systematic. In another example I also used "starting here": Disformation’s interactions for a while with SL starting from here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24312642 he quickly admit’s that he has a hard time reading SL. I didn’t get anything useful from that interaction. for a sequence of interaction that SL had with Dis. That's why I said you're biased or tunneled or something. Because any objectively normal thinking person would have used this logical sequence rather than yours. The thing is, if there was any doubt as to how I meant it (and I'm certain you had your doubts, you just don't want to openly admit it), because you said yourself that it was strange how I agree to both at the same time when they are contradictory opinions, you weren't interested in asking me directly about it. You just used it to support your case of "hey guys, look this guy makes such a confusing post, but I can't bother to clarify it with him first, because If I did I can't use it for my case anymore." | ||
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On May 27 2015 06:16 plotspot wrote: Ok tell me, have you thought about these two questions like I suggested at the end? Can you answer them? | ||
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I also said "rather than risking it". Like, is there any doubt as to whether Breskhe and Barakos's handling the situation of Scott is the totally riskless way and SL's version is the way risking his (Scott's) lynch by speculating on a modkill? | ||
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"blah blah. Though I did read TT town earlier .. blah blah, by now I have to relook bla blah, he keeps on tunneling me bla blah, a normal townie would have backed out by now ... bla blah he must have a very big ego blah blah ... or he might be scum... blah blah... hmm blah blah, I'm not so sure... because earlier ... hmm blah blah... but yeah I'm starting to lean on him as scum... blah blah *more made up reasonings*... blah blah." I'm waiting when someone is going to quote this post. Pointing out strange behavior or some stuff. Like 100% that will happen in the future, with some clever wording and counter-logics. I'll just wait and see. | ||
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These sure fire mechanics include: 1. Always write our your reasoning. Ninjavoting like BM is bad. BM, now that is he town, it's obvious he doesn't care, he makes some internal reasoning as to why bunnies is scum and just votes her. Why does he always have to detail out what he thinks? LOL exactly, because otherwise he'd just get lynched like that 2. Prepare your reads by progressing them. Never jump from this guy is town to this guy is scum in the next post, although you obviously have your own reasoning and didn't want to publish them. Always start saying you find this or that suspicious, then it's easier to say later "see I am consistent, I already had that thought earlier". yeah right. 3. Be as vague as possible but not too vague, so that it can get you into trouble. By saying "I don't know" "I think it's like that" "just my opinion" "I like that" "I don't like that" "I am not sure of what to make from that" you are on the right track, but just don't pushi this technique too hard. 4. Be detached as possible: Don't let yourself get emotionally involved. Just ignore the guy pushing you. Make up reasons for it if you want. Be cool. 5. Shift the focus to something "more important". Yeah you're a tight spot after some misslip. Tell the other guys to focus on more importanat matters, like "finding scum". If he doesn't that it looks good for you because you're trying to find scum, and is not. Lol 6. Ask questions. Right. Buy yourself time, ask the other guys something, let him make the effort. It's most likely he makes mistakes when he writes more than you. anything else I forgot or don't know about, please this is so interesting | ||
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On May 27 2015 20:42 Tictock wrote: Fine, it's basically the same question so I'll answer the generalized one. 3 reasons I can think of 1) To poke and get reads, SL himself claimed this 2) Keeps them from being clear target to Mafia, possible way to hide as a role 3) Playstyle choice, makes your scum game more in line with town game. #3 is my assessment of SL, though 1 is valid. I know SL is not a role this game, least not a town role... You see, you're only acting dumb (obviously, sorry if I called you out on this). My opinion is #2. How can you exclude #2. Ok I admit I have NEVER ever plyed with SL, so I don't see why #2 is a no-go. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + 1) scott31337 Mafia RB 2) Tictock Mafia Goon 3) Rels VT 4) plotspot VT 5) boxerfred Mason 6) disformation VT 7) Barakos VT 8) Sulfurus Mafia Godfather 9) 27ninjabunnies VT 10) Bill Murray VT 11) Breshke Mason 12) sicklucker RB 13) batsnacks Cop ##VOTE: NO LYNCH | ||
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So who's left? Breshke and rels. Wasn't everybody townreading them? | ||
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On May 28 2015 09:48 Sulfurus wrote: @Batsnacks How do you know Bunnies is not the GF? Can you see what's missing in this question? | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24324329 | ||
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On May 27 2015 20:51 Tictock wrote: Anyways, I get the feeling I'm trying to hard this game. Gunna take a lesson from BM and bugger off. Dis is still town and @ Dis about the waffling, me too.... You can finally relax, the game is over. You did well an should have deserved the win. | ||
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On May 28 2015 19:59 Barakos wrote: I totally don't get plots... is he actually serious about not voting today, or is he trolling? I can't tell the difference with him and his whole posts have a "nervous-breakdown"-tone in them, if you ask me... tictock: Solving the game doesn't mean to tinfoilhat a un-cc'ed cop and one of his greenchecks into being mafia. And while I could understand some suspicions towards bunnies (and me, for that matter) because of the godfather-possibility, there is no way, that bats is landing on any scumlists - that's just ridiculous atm. And that is coming from me, who had theories noone else but me believed in, the whole game long... ^^ I solved the game, you guys can vote Sulfurus for town credits when he flips mafia. I don't need town credits. | ||
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On May 28 2015 19:55 disformation wrote: Also town rb and gf stuff: Since batsnacks is 100% the cop and we 100% have masons, that makes it extremely unlikely we also have a town rb (that can block mafia kp!). Thus I agree that we have 2 mafia rb. Which makes it a bit more unlikely we have mafia rb/rb/gf. By taking out the people with claims,checks, etc. the people left are: ticktoc boxerfred Sulfurus sicklucker disformation That is like a 2/5 to lynch mafia. If one of those is the town mason and claims, we are down to basically a 50% chance of hitting mafia. In my case, if I take myself out (since I know I'm town) and you are the mason. I have only 3 targets left. Look at my huge wall a few pages ago.  Even if there is a GF, one of those 3 is 100% mafia. The setup is most likely Town RB, Mason and Cop and Mafia RB, Mafia Godfather, Mafia Goon. You can even see this from the balance that Town RB cancels off with Mafia RB. Mafia Godfather kinda cancels with Cop and yeah Mason maybe add balance to Town RB since it's not that strong in the beginning obviously. | ||
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On May 28 2015 09:48 Sulfurus wrote: @Batsnacks How do you know Bunnies is not the GF? And this quote practically does 3 things: establish Barakos as town establish Sulfurus as mafia practically confirms the setup I talk about. You guys want to think about it? batsnacks you have no idea how great of a help you were to me solving the game; like even your misunderstandings were such a great help. | ||
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1) scott31337 Mafia RB 2) Tictock Mafia Goon 3) Rels VT 4) plotspot VT 5) boxerfred Mason 6) disformation VT 7) Barakos VT 8) Sulfurus Mafia Godfather 9) 27ninjabunnies VT 10) Bill Murray VT 11) Breshke Mason 12) sicklucker RB 13) batsnacks Cop Why is everyone only focusing on the this freaking joke vote. Don't get freaking absorbed in petty details and try to see the grand picture. Read this list, take couple of page you want and see whether it applies or not? Shall we? (ok I admit I'm not 100% sure about the roles but the alignments are obvious as day. Even the individual roles would fit if you read a bit harder (for example: boxerfred mislip on his coaching thread, he must have some happy time talking to Breshke, that's why he acts so carefree and confident, he always has someone to back him up, is it understandable?) | ||
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. But nobody got it. | ||
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On May 28 2015 21:04 disformation wrote: Let us start with: Who did you block N1 and N2 and why? Why do you want it so easy. I say THINK, everybody just ignores me. I'm just wondering whether Rels and Breshke have solved this already. | ||
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And that Tictock is scum partners with Sulfurus is so obvious too if you check the thread again. | ||
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"You guys were excellent. One scumrleaning me for the Rels post, one townreading me hard for it. And yet the most important thing of it you still missed. That's so lol." And sorry If I sounded a bit angry, I just thought it was obvious, sorry if I offended anyone. | ||
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So I claimed that I was RBed by a roleblocker N2 to tell town that we have a RB, but there wasn't any discussion worthwhile about it, you also didn't see me press the issue there. | ||
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You even see now that Tictock tries hard to deflect from voting for Sulfurus for whatever reason you want. And I posted a post about Sulfurus just somewhere above that gives her away as Mafia, especially if you know the setup now. | ||
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On May 28 2015 22:02 Tictock wrote: Humm, what was your thinking blocking Bara? You've been clearly scumming me since much earlier than N2, why didn't you block me? No I didn't, you remember the post where I ask bunny to go out and give her gut read and said I thought you were town? It was just when batsnacks claimed cop along with all his checks that I slowly crept on the thought that you are scum. And the town elimination thing just supports this: Bats = cops Bunny = town Barakos = town plotspot = RB Breshke = Mason disformation = town boxerfred = Mason --- there are two people left = you and Sulfurus. I rechecked the filters and you it would fit that you and Sulfu and scott are scum trio. | ||
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On May 28 2015 09:48 Sulfurus wrote: @Batsnacks How do you know Bunnies is not the GF? I will explain how this post will reveal Sulfurus as Mafia, and basically supports my case without the Tictock interaction. Sulfurus posted that question after clueless Batsnacks and disformation are hysterical about there being another Mafia RB. The right question would have been "How do you know Bunnies and Barakos are not the GF"? In her mind it was 100% technically perfect that Barakos cannot be mafia. She assumes that Batsnacks believed this lie. The truth his however it is totally possible for Barakos to be Godfather with the Town RB setup. He just automatically reads him town because he is mafia. | ||
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On May 28 2015 13:43 Tictock wrote: Ok I skimmed from EoN till now, there's a lot to think about and some stuff I want to look into. First things first, farewell to Breshke one of our town masons. 2nd off, I really don't think town RB should claim, maybe I'm wrong here but wouldn't Town RB be the strongest role in a cop, mason, RB town setup? Town RB claiming will make them a sure fire target tonight, seems to me town RB will want to hold off claiming as long as possible to avoid being NK'd and allowing potential blocks of NKs. Masons seem like a weakish role. I don't see much reason why the remaining mason shouldn't claim as it will help confirm one more town. I notice SL and Dis are expecting me to claim mason. Honestly though, I feel like if I were a role wouldn't I be in the best position to not claim? Like most people are reading me as town anyway, if I were to claim a role it wouldn't really narrow things down at the moment. Also, why the hell is plots trying to No Lynch? and here On May 28 2015 13:57 Tictock wrote: I'm clearly very bad at role speculating + Show Spoiler + carried away by SK nonsense, that is clearly false now Ok we have Bre as the only confirmed role since he flipped mason. There is a strong possibility of a town role blocker, but I don't see why it would be impossible for mafia to have 2 RBs it's not very likely but I don't want to rule it out just yet. Bats claiming Cop is interesting, and it makes sense with how he's been playing. However, there is the (admittedly slim) possibility of Bats and 27nb being scum partners and them pushing inactives for their 3 needed mislynches. Also, if we assume that town has Masons, a Cop, and a RB it seems VERY likely that mafia would have a GF and means we can't trust the cop checks 100%. I know I'm getting a bit WIFOM here, but this is what is running through my head and are all things town needs to keep in mind. Town really needs to lynch Scum today because we are starting to loose our ground so I just want us to really think through the options now. | ||
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On May 28 2015 22:25 disformation wrote: trying to discredit some people unlikely to buy your story? cute. I'm supporting you guys here, it's naturally that you are confused whether there is a Mafia RB or not. I'm a Town RB, it's impossible. I'm not discrediting you, the way you have been reinforces that you are town. You even made a big case trying to solve the game. | ||
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Even today in the morning when interacted a bit with him, all he calls me is "you're a bad townie" like he has basically read me town. I promise you if there was any slight chance I was not confirmed 99% town he would have used quite some different words. At that time Mafia was still clueless remember? They wanted to establish confusion that there was a possible 2nd Mafia RB, but if they wanted to hold up this theory they would have to 100% read me town, just like Tictock does. Now he finds some support and manages to swing the votes on me. Sulfurus is safe, never to be mentioned again, or only in weak-ass push attempt I betcha. | ||
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On May 28 2015 22:37 Tictock wrote: I would have held to this thinking as well, but once the role speculation started to get too out of hand I realized it was in fact doing town more harm than good. And thanks to a thing known as "a flip" Bre is in fact the only confirmed blue role at this moment in the game. It's up to town to decide if the people claiming roles have been acting in line with that role, and to sniff out any fake claims that have inconsistencies. I think he still missed my question. PLOTSPOT!! The "him" = Barakos I couldn't read him that well. While I said he was town earlier, I had my doubts internally and not published. I wonder why batsnacks thought the same? | ||
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If Sulfurus flips green feel free to lynch me next, because obviously then I haven't got the game solved and wasted all your time. Do we have a deal? | ||
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On May 28 2015 22:58 disformation wrote: That is basically the only mention of barakos in your filter... Why the fuck would you roleblock a null/town read over a scum read? I'm sorry I confused you disformation. Yes I town read him there, but I observed something about him that raised my suspicion, but since I am Town RB I may not always post what I find suspicious next just to RB it. It may give away my that I'm the RB. You see I was terrified that Mafia would discover me on the account of this post about Rels here right after she died: On May 25 2015 07:10 plotspot wrote: How do you know Rels wasn't Vig shot? I was about to make a case on scumreading him hard for the following points I prepared: Rels: referring too much to others opinion, reading thread very carefully, the way RELS sets up lynch is also very comfortable (like lynch inactives), giving orders to others, thanks my post but posts no further thoughts, in comparison to Disinformation who displays overall anxiety in his reads and thoughts, Rels looks like he can handle any sudden change, there is nothing clouding his mind, others apparently have to do more than Rels, you bet if I was Vig I would have shot her. If for some reason Mafia thought:"who the fuck would RB this guy? Like who, wait a minute: Maybe he blocked himself to establish a story? That would look so bad. Why would he waste a block on himself? Hey maybe he blocked Rels. Yeah that's it he scumread her after she died remember? He even said he would have shot her if he was Vig. So if this guy is RB he would definitely have blocked her. Now that she is dead, no one can tell if he lied or not, but he establishes himself as town. Hehe; this guy is so dead" Ok I'm sorry for all the mucus earlier. I apologize for my bad behavior. I shouldn't have done this. It was just I work for it all night and posted what I thought was the solution for us at 4:00 am (4hours after D3). You guys don't believe I am the RB and blocked Barakos? I can even semi-prove it, but I'd rather not as it gives away some info for possible future mafia. Please allow me some secrecy in that regard. | ||
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On May 28 2015 23:00 Barakos wrote: We'll not have to wait till next lynch... I am pretty sure, boxerfred will enter the thread, not cc and your whole "sulfurus, tictock"-theory will come crushing down. even if he counterclaims, all my money is on bf being the fakeclaim... the reason for this just being his excitement of finally finding a bluerole last night, when he thought it breshke softclaimed cop. Tictock being breshkes masonpartner is the far more believable option. Okay, I see it now. That might be the case. Maybe I was just tunneling to hard on the Sulfurus tictock theory and saw it as perfect. We wait what boxerfred says, I can agree to it. I'm definitely the Town RB. | ||
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Tictock Mason plotspot RB disformation VT 27ninjabunnies VT sicklucker VT batsnacks Cop Barakos VT --- wouldn't that leave: Sulfurus and boxerfred left as Mafia? | ||
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On May 28 2015 23:33 disformation wrote: Well, Sulfurus and boxerfred being mafia would align with my huge wall post. Opposing to ticktoc I read you willing to die for the lynch on Sulfurus as rather towny. The misslip is a good point actually enough. *Sigh* I'm not making stuff up guys. I admit in shame that I tunneled Tictock hard, and that it is totally possible to swap him with boxerfred now, which I slowly see as the more reasonable choice, because if boxerfred was Mason and lurking why the hell did he not just finish it with one blow, by CCing. But my points on Sulfurus stays. Hence I'd vote for Sulfurus and think we will mostly like get a red flip here ##VOTE:SULFURUS | ||
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I am Town RB. I roleblocked Rels on N1. Since she died I made that ploy up in order to protect myself as my role will get important in the late game. I wrote about the dangers involved with this ploy when mafia detected it. I RBed Barakos on N2. Barakos verified that he got RBed. So would you risk misslynching a non-CC'ed Town RB, if he can help protect your Cop in N3, when we hammer a mafia today? When I survive we can openly discuss who to RB and with the help of the Cop get another town check in, if our guess of mafia is right that night. Please think about this. I know I kinda lost your trust because I was tunneled so hard before and explode on some of you, for which I'd really like to apologizee again. | ||
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On May 29 2015 00:18 disformation wrote: Okay, just for verification: plotspot: you did only claim to be roleblocked in N1 to get the mafia to think you are not the rb, right? Yes exactly, I know it was kinda unfair to other townies, but If I survive with this ploy, we win. And it looks damn good so far. | ||
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Imagine if I was to RB someone and he survives that Night. It would make this ploy impossible, it would have led to a fucking mess which mafia will have ultimately used to force me out. | ||
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On May 29 2015 00:50 disformation wrote: plotspot: could you explain why boxerfred was the second mason in your opinion? imo you never bothered to explain that. Ok no problem; but this is only a gut read ok, before I was too tunneled and told you this was surefire stuff. Boxerfred I have always read as town, you can check it, for his stream of concsiousness style where he posts, then thinks a bit and then post and again. For me it didn't look like scum. So following my elimination of how everyone was town, except for boxerfred, Tictock and Sulfurus, I tunneled hard on Tictock being scum. Because I was town, and I was probably clumsy too and I always gets the most pressure from Tictock, so for me at some point I was thnking? What the hell, why was I always only pushed hard by Tictock? You can check it out disinformation he made like 3-4 semi long cases on me, always careful not pushing too hard but not too low. Parallel to this I thought boxerfred might be Mason because he misslips about the coaching thread here On May 22 2015 19:32 boxerfred wrote: Barakos going the coach way :D I was just starting to ask my coach about that. However, thus far I think I'll go for the guy who voted 27ninjabunnies (which would be BM) since he did not really have a clue and just started with an accusation. That kinda points to the SK role or even a scum role. Can't really tell. However, since Breshke and batsnacks, as well as BM and tictock cast their votes for the same person, they might be somehow linked to each other in their roles, implying they are either scum or masons. Since a mason wouldn't have to cast his vote in a seemingly random/trolly kind of way, I'm going for Bill Murray. Especially since he is no newbie, so I can safely assume he didn't troll but instead made a random vote on purpose. So here we go: ##Vote Bill Murray For me this was a tell, and I simply imagined he likes to go there, but obviosly wouldn't say "to talk to my Mason partner". I could imagined he liked to go there so he could discuss stuff with the very intelligent Breshke. My logic. So one thing kinda implicates the other, so I just think the setup was then boxerfred Mason, Tictock scum (would make sense to me, he may kind of falls off your radar because he doesn't push you guys as much as me? I don't know) and Sulfurus scum too. I even found evidence on why Sulfurus was scum itself. And I started scumreading Tictock even more when I defended Sulfurus heavily. | ||
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I declare all my posts from here to the dotted line above to be null/deleted. They were based on a horrible read from me on Tictock and have no relevance whatsoever anymore. I am sorry I have wasted your time. Please to don't quote me on any of them I will not answer them. I learned my lessons thanks. New post here: I am the Town RB. I CAN proof it. | ||
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I read SL and disformation town. So I am willing to vote: sulfurus or boxerfred. I'll weight up who of them is scummier tomorrow. But please tell me your opinion, we can only vote one of them. Who of those two do you guys think is more scummy? If you decided on disformation or SL I'd be very unreluctant to accept, but post your case if you think it's totally support them being scum. | ||
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On May 29 2015 06:11 disformation wrote: That is basically my whole problem. The setup IS unusual no matter how I think about it. And if you or batsnacks are lying this stance might make town lose. Are you sure you have checked all the possibilities (also from the side of mafia) and came to the conclusion that it is unusual? No one is lying we are simply unclaimed blue roles, that's all there is to it. We should avoid talking about, it can only benefit mafia considering CClaiming. | ||
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On May 29 2015 06:28 batsnacks wrote: I would tell you this as either alignment: 4 blues in this setup is unusual. Meaning it wouldn't be terrible for you to be at least slightly suspicious of my claim. I think tiktok is objectively the most likely to be telling the truth. If you don't understand why you can ask. We should definitely -not- avoid talking about it. Mafia is never going to cc anything for the rest of the game it would be suicide at this point. If you don't understand why you can ask. Here is every possibility:
Assume anyone lying is mafia. Nothing else is possible. Ok I think I get it. Thanks for detailiing it out. | ||
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On May 29 2015 06:52 batsnacks wrote: Mason-mason is strong because they can confirm each other town to the rest of the town. Unfortunately breshke died without saying who his partner is, but I think tiktok is telling the truth because if he is mafia he is risking being cced by breshke's partner (if breshke has a partner). 2 masons are almost as strong as 1 cop for town. Using this game as an example: I am the cop and I got two green checks before I will inevitably die tonight, so godfathers not considered I was able to get two checks. If two masons confirm each other town, that's very similar to two checks. Do you think the flavour of cakepie mentioning both of the Mason roles is a tell that there are actually 2 of them? Also, if you have a mason-mason cop rb setup is it still unusual if mafia has two GFs instead of one? | ||
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On May 29 2015 07:07 batsnacks wrote: Not that we have any way of verifying but it might be cool for you to paraphrase what you and breshke were talking about. I second that question, Tictock. Can you tell us whether you guys expected that Breshke would be killed on N2 for example, and whether such a kill could lead us to anyone? | ||
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On May 29 2015 07:52 Tictock wrote: @ BF 27nb has still not done much of real value, and has not added much to the discussion today. She was willing to say that GF was a possibility and that Cop checks cant be 100%. That's about the only thing giving me pause atm, but I could see that coming from either alignment as it's an easy thing to state. My stance on plots is that he is Mafia RB trying to hide as Town RB. It's a bold move though, so it should be looked at critically. But when I do that his claim falls apart, him RBing Bara makes 0 sense as you can tell he hasn't liked me very much since I've been pressuring him so hard yet is fairly null about Bara. Who in their right mind as RB would not block Me if they felt as plots seems to N2? Not only that but his entire filter is his graphics and reads D1 and his whole OMGUS thing with me. I tried to give him a pass as misguided town but his persistence to fill the thread with nonsense along with the fact that I've pointed out he's pushing bad town logic (maybe you don't agree it's as strong as I think it is) tells me he is scum. I've given my reasons why I've been townreading Dis the whole game multiple times. He has shown clear and critical thinking, has been willing to admit he's wrong, doesn't deflect questions, pushes his own ideas... etc etc. I don't feel like restating my read on him, you can find it in my filter. Let's see if I can be logically Mafia RB. After Scott died, and I would be the second Mafia RB, I blocked Rels she is killed at the same time, then I claim at N2 that someone has RB me. Would I as mafia really do something like this If I didn't know whether town does not have a RB themselves? Let's see. I don't think my remaining Mafia partner would approve. First of all we are down 2 men. If we had 2 Mafia RBs then town is very likely to have at least one, or am I wrong? Someone with more experience with setup could clarify this? We can agree that we only have one RB right? otherwise by now there would already be at least 3 people who claimed being roleblocked and the the real Town RB claiming. But that's not the case. So we only have one more RB (Scott Mafia RB is already dead). If that RB is Mafia what else does town have? Again I'm not familiar with possible setups but is something like like Mafia RB 2x, Goon/Godfather possible when town only has 2 Masons and 1 Cop? Ok let's just say this was the case, at that time when Breshke was killed, wouldn't that mean I'd not better RB the kill target like scum usually does, so how does Barakos get to be the target? This is like implying Barakos is scum coming out pretending to have been the target. That's kind of a stretch isn't it? We then already know that Barakos is the GF because he was already copchecked by bats. Looking at this do you still think I am Mafia RB? only possible if Barakos is GF. Would I as mafia point it out like this, or would I'd rather hide it? The most plausible thing is that I'm am Town RB, not Mafia RB neither in case that town had also a Town RB as well as do not have a Town RB? Did I not consider anything? | ||
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On May 29 2015 11:38 Tictock wrote: @ Plots First the bolded question is one that I already posed to you, and is still one that you as Town RB need to answer in depth. Why did you think Bara was scum and block him? You've posted town or null reads on him before and after N2, so what did he do to make you think you had better block him? You also seem to suggest that Bara is potentially the GF here. Is that what you were thinking? You didn't like the green check on Bara so you figuered he was the Mafia GF and blocked him? No Tictock. You keep saying I’m the Mafia RB as a reason why you vote me. Then explain to me this? Why do I as Mafia RB block Barakos and not Breshke on N2, when I did block Rels on N1? Why do I as Mafia RB reveal to town that there is an RB, when Mafia is benefits more from keeping stuff like this hidden? Why do I as Mafia RB point out to you that the only way it is possible for me to be Mafia RB is if it leads town directly to my scumpartner, when I’m playing to win and not to lose? If you cannot answer these questions convincingly don’t even mention me as a possible Mafia RB to scumread me. You’re like “I make a weak sauce case on this guy why I think he is a Mafia RB that doesn’t hold for 30 seconds, but it’s ok I just risk that town loses an important power role”, which is a ridiculus way of thinking for a townie. Or do you want to doubt my RB status as boxerfred did? If after considering all things you acknowledge that I cannot be the Mafia RB in this constellation and post it here, I will surely provide to you with a satisfactory reason, why I changed my mind on Barakos for when I checked him. It’s sitting right next here to me. Do we have a deal? --- This questions of yours makes no sense "You didn't like the green check on Bara so you figuered he was the Mafia GF and blocked him?" in terms of chronological game order. Barakos was copchecked on N1. On N2 batsnacks ninja-posted anout this at very last minute in fear he would die. There is no way for me to somehow know about this beforehand in order not to like and use ot as a reasoon to RB Barakos. | ||
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In any case The whole RB claim who and what not, will be resolved for all you guys at N3. If I and Barakos are scum together we will die certainly at D4 and D5. Town risks like one mislynch for a sure fire victory? Why would you as town not do it something like this, but go for Tictocks insane idea of going against all the odds and lynch me tonight? Please. Lol you see Tictock this is how to act townie, Barakos is like 100% townie here for suggesting this. But let's not lynch Barakos | ||
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On May 26 2015 07:47 plotspot wrote: Barakos: feels genuine. I believe what he says. He has an alerting but inoffensive way of expressing himself and most (if not all) his posts I can say: “hmm yeah I see the meaning behind it”. A possibly strange point which reinforce my town read on him is that he fantasizes about how scum QT looks like here. For me it’s hard to imagine scum would do that, I mean just for the thought of it at all. But here we have a townie imagining how things went in the scum QT and scott’s case is really a strange one, that leaves me wondering whether he betrayed his mates or whether they knew he had some time issues and just deal with it somehow. On May 27 2015 17:09 Barakos wrote: I did? I made a case against disformation, who was the other wagon D1 and I gave plenty reason to vote SL day two at the time, when the wagons were bunnies and sl. Then I returned to a thread, where all the votes were gone from SL and the wagons were BM and 27nb and when people were talking about doing voteswitches to sulfurus, I once again tried and said i would highly prefer a SL-lynch. @SL: game was disney princess mafia... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/464494-newbie-lviii-disney-princess-mafia After I skimmed through the game Barakos posted, I realize that my read on him earlier is not good anymore. It was based on mostly his tone. In the link he posted where he wins as the last remaining mafia, he clearly shows an impressive deceiving style, while I felt he has the same tone as here. That’s the reason that made me reconsider the situation, although I didn’t post about it in the thread before I RBed him. | ||
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Case 1: If you believe me. I am Town RB. Case 2: If I lied. Then I am Mafia RB/Mafia Goon/GF together with Barokos as Godfather. Why? Because Barakos would have to lie about being roleblocked, because we RBed Breshke in case I am RB or we didn't RB Breshke because I am Goon/GF. The thing about Barakos is that he is surely GF if he is Mafia because he also received green-checks from Bats. What happens if you don't vote for me? Case 1: Extreme high chance of winning with me as RB and Bats as cop remaining. Case 2: Sure fire victory after D4 and D5. If you find out there is a RB or not depending on whether I am RB or Goon or GF. | ||
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On May 30 2015 02:26 sicklucker wrote: breske would have let us no 0% chance theres only 1 mason Okay I see for the first time why you guys are so sure about 2 masons... that's quite a good reasoning. | ||
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^^ Maybe another illustration. Bunnies plays in 100 games with a 4 VT 1 GF setup. She's mathematically 80 times VT and 20 times GF. You are asked to say what she was in these 100 games. What would you do? Would you estimate your abilities to better than than someone who has absolutely no idea and just goes for VT 100% of the time and still be 80% of the time correct? You are to compete with that person, he only wins when he has more correct "reads" than you. If you and him end up with the same points you win. What is your confidence level about the situation here? | ||
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yes, but it's just math the safe to play like that. It's just bunnies personality why she feels scummy. I'd be like scummy too when you read my filters. But facts are just facts. | ||
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Or even freakin Barakos, still has the possibility of being GF, although making very towny posts today. The difference between Barakos and Tictock is just that Barakos is logically safe while Tictock isn't. So like he is totally capable of looking the most townish, just based on on Tictock's fallacy. Tictock might be really just frustrated and didn't care about mechanically safe play regarding myself. Barakos, the whole way he summarizes his points in clear logic. This guy is just very intelligent, totally capable of playing GF like that. Just me wondering about technical possibilities. They could also just be townie. Idk. | ||
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On May 30 2015 07:38 sicklucker wrote: plots dont roleblock who he says. Theres 2 mafia if they know who your roleblocking its pointless. Pick like the 3or 4 scummiest players and rng it On May 30 2015 07:45 sicklucker wrote: acualy plots if your around like 10 minutes before the end of the night, I might have a good suggestion on who to roleblock that will seal town the win. But if i say it now mafia will just change who delivers it. If I believe he is town, than everything is ok. But if I think he is scum: then it's like he is here appearing townish by giving the RB some good tactics. The second is just some random shit that makes me pay attention to something that doesn't exist logically, he wants me to block one of the guys 10 minutes from before the game. Obvious townies so that I waste my RB. Like how do I differentiate that? | ||
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On May 30 2015 08:23 boxerfred wrote: Plots, please don't go down this road. "They could also just be townie. Idk." after a big paragraph on Barakos/Tictocs? Not helpful at all, more like "here are some random thoughts but they can be wrong". Leave it then. Same goes for "He might just be some kind of mastermind, that surfs well through interactions. While he posts smileys and stuff, he could actually be perfectly stoic behind his PC, never missing a beat. LOL Idk." I'm not sure if I should interprate those posts as.. a) ..scum alignment: after confusing the shit out of town last day, you now want to confuse them even more since you had success with a town flip lynch or.. b) ..town alignment: after having a huge, seemingly flawless theory and solved the game proven wrong, you're a bit in a sad mood and see your efforts going down the drain. I tend to b). Just go to sleep, re-order your thoughts and theories, re-target your efforts on whoever you think is most scum-ly to you, and do your best to clear things up. In any case, I'd like you to stop those "well idk can be everyone at everything" posts. You'll end up with saying "lel batsnacks no cop" while pretty much everything by now relies on him and his claim. That's exactly what I mean. You make so much sense now, totally unlike day.^^ LOL. This game. Yeah ok, I'll go to sleep soon. | ||
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Tictock: like virtually everybody reads this guy town, and that not only based on his Mason claim. For this claim we only have as a clue because Breshke didn’t leave a clue. I was wondering why Breshke never did that, as opposed to only say “only one” or something before his demise. Could Breshke have thought “it doesn’t matter, when there is another blue role, then it can only mean that I am the only Mason, town will figure it out, I won’t risk giving things away, if there is still a chance left I didn’t die and still could hide our setup.”? Supporting this is the relentless will of Tictock to go against me, even beyond the logic of what a townie would do, when everything has been detailed out. It’s just INSANE. I know why others might think I could be technically still Mafia, but since I know am not this, this even makes more sense that he is actually scum. What did I miss here? Bunnies: then we have bunnies, who almost everybody thought was scum, where I thought she was just lazy, plus the green-check mechanics gave her an 84% chance of being town than scum (I was wrong yesterday when I thought it was only 80%). Like today it is, 80% when we take into consideration that boxerfred, disformation, SL and Barakos are also in the pool. Usually this is the theory, but does math really help here? Even the math falls, when I start to read 3 of the remaining 4 players town, because it’s IMPOSSIBLE of all of them to be mafia. So what? it reduces it down to 50-60% still. If I RB her, there is a chance we establish her as town, at least more than when she was not RBed in comparison to any players I haven’t RB yet. I think that’s it, everything else is purely WIFOM in a setup where I increase my chances from maybe 15% to 25% if I think hard enough to spin this thing. Is it really worth it? I think it fits that I select two players on the extremities of my thinking versus that of what others think. Nothing in between, so if you guys have anything to suggest concerning these two that is able to push my one decision over my other, please do so right now. We still have some time left. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + Double Spoiler + Show Spoiler +2 nights long, I misled scum Then things got really troublesome 7 of us will remain, when Bats dies, was it all in vain? Ticktock ticktock… time runs short I must do it or abort What to do if I was wrong? You guys have to end the song | ||
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On May 31 2015 07:21 27ninjabunnies wrote: Wait, why would you block the only claimed cop?! What if he didnt die in the night. He never would have gotten a check.... Whaaattt are yooouuu doooinnngggg? Sorry, as soon as I thought you and him are being partners, everything started making sense. This must be like what it is to be in another tunnel. | ||
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I could also go on the SL tunnel, then it's like he is the mastermind knowing Bats is cops and persuaded me to put my block on him, so I am guaranteed to miss my RB, and cannot even prove my block anymore. The same thing goes for the Barakos tunnel, I pointed it out last night. But that's so crazy. If we believe Tictock is Mason. Then we have bunnies, boxerfred and disformation left as mafia. That's all. | ||
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On May 31 2015 07:48 27ninjabunnies wrote: Okay, now that bats has flipped as cop, what is your read on me? You know im not mafia with bats who has a greencheck on me. Do you think that interaction was based on an actuall read on me as town, or do you still view me as possible mafia? I need to know your thoughts on this. I honestly don't know anymore Bunnies. Either you or Barakos are mafia. Since I have no plan on balance issues, I could even see both you and Barakos being GF, to balance out Tictock as a Mason, especially in with a Cop setup? But how likely is that? It's more likely you or Barakos are lying, not both. | ||
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On May 31 2015 07:56 sicklucker wrote: if my play was to make you waste your block so you can become confirmed. Why am I calling you confirmed town here I don't really believe it, it's just that at this point I'm considering technical possibities over who I can believe or not, obviously there are up to 2 mafia here trying to spin their logic. You guys are capable of that. Otherwise the game wouldn't have last up to here. This game gets complicated by the minute. | ||
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On May 31 2015 08:21 sicklucker wrote: tictock if I dint suggest him to roleblock bats. PLOTS HAD TO RB SOMEONE OTHER THEN BARAKOS. This would have confirmed plots as a rber. Hes a roleblocker its so stupid to fake claim if you cant acualy roleblock someone.He may be town, he may be mafia but he is a roleblocker and it will be confirmed tonight. they target me tonight and I'll die more likelier if we don't find one of the mafias left. I will sure to leave a note. | ||
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Tictock our tunneling Mason, not caring for logics Barakos incredibly towny, he fucking cares for this game SL fucking cares for this game too, made some extremly good calls already I fucking care for this game by not only reacting but also suggest stuff and think about possibilities and point them out here before anyone else does --- What does mafia do? lurk and post from time to time some stuff. The funny thing is if even we turn it all around it still makes sense too (technically). | ||
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He is fucking town. Or He is fucking mafia, and uses me as a shield to never get lynched, and then kill me later at night. | ||
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Still think I'm mafia? I don't even know, but in this case I must be some sort of mechanically super safe mafia or something. I'm pointing all this stuff out to you, where I can just shut up and enjoy. | ||
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On May 31 2015 17:51 Tictock wrote: Plots himself posted this Bats was the clear NK target, and he agreed. So why does he offer this excuse? Why does he suddenly throw away his own thinking, and just listen to SL? Why does Bara do the same D3, just sheeping Bats vote, when every other day he has given his own clear reasoning? I explain that to you. SL pointed out that he saw something interesting at the 10 minute mark before EoD3 that could give us the win. He wonders whether I see it too. Then he spits his idea about blocking bats. I go back to that 10 minute mark before EoD3 and notice how bats swings from bunnies to Sulfurus with the reason that Sulfurus cares and shows up and is therefore Mafia. Then gets totally surprised by bunnies showing up too. At that time the "Bats fakeclaim + bunnies being his partner" make sense. In retrospect it would be Bats being mafia killing Breshke knowing he is Mason, giving away Barakos as town before EoN2, protecting bunny by giving her a green-check. It's extremely effective for Mafia to claim cop to protect their partners if they figure out we don't have cop, they basically make themselves unkillable. I thought hard about it before agreeing to this idea of SL, as it gave us great information (nevertheless) and a chance to win right there when Bats was really fake-claiming. And I post the thing you quoted way before SL pointed it out. I didn't "just" listen to SL, I saw a real chance in him being right when I watch the bats bunnies interaction. | ||
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On May 31 2015 18:16 Tictock wrote: @ Plots So what evidence did you see to make you think Bats claim was false? Him vote switching is poor evidence. No, it is just in retrospect poor evidence because Bats was cop. A misslip is good evidence otherwise. | ||
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On May 31 2015 18:17 Tictock wrote: Also Plots Why did you block Bara N2? Why did you think he was Mafia? I told you before, I read the game he posted where he was mafia, and I thought my read about him before was wrong. | ||
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On May 31 2015 18:20 boxerfred wrote: okay before I'm offline for the next several hours: plots, I dare you to say one more time "I don't know anymore". Stop it. Please. Stop it. I'm so annoyed by that by now. Okay, it just reflects my state of mind. I will avoid it for your sake. | ||
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On May 31 2015 18:22 Tictock wrote: No, you have to actually explain your thoughts. What did plots do that made you not believe his cop claim? What misslip? okay I can break it down to you, This sequence of posts are what I mean. On May 30 2015 06:48 batsnacks wrote: Nah bunnies isn't the gf BAT TRAPS LOL Shenanies onto sulfur ##unvote ##vote sulfurus The first strange thing. Why would bats say bunnies isn't the GF all of a sudden. Would make sense if he was mafia protecting bunnies. On May 30 2015 06:48 27ninjabunnies wrote: LOL Wow Cant even On May 30 2015 06:49 batsnacks wrote: Why are you still here bunnies wtf Like he is totally surprised by bunnies appearing. Would make sense if they agreed to bunnies staying afk so he can spin it. On May 30 2015 06:56 Sulfurus wrote: Are you guys joking? On May 30 2015 06:58 Sulfurus wrote: You can vote me later, it doesn't matter Sulfurus looking as if he cares. On May 30 2015 06:58 batsnacks wrote: shes here and doesn't give a shit. Mafia would give a shit. Bats looking for a way to seal the deal with Sulfurus, by saying bunnies is here and doesn't give a shit. Sulfurus gives a shit, so she is mafia. If bunnies didn't appear, he would have said something like "bunnies isn't here, she doesn't give a shit. Mafia gives a shit." That's the interaction I thought SL wanted to point out to me and it would make sense if Bats was Mafia doing just that. | ||
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On May 31 2015 19:05 Barakos wrote: Just to make this clear... lynching me here is a bad play, cause i have a greencheck on me and was blocked on a night of a kill and am town... Lynching me is the correct play, if you think i am scum and support your roleblock-fakeclaim with my fakeclaim of being blocked. We can confirm you on so many other ways, that there is no reason for sane people to lynch me. Lynching me just is the right play for tictock, cause he lives in lala-land. yeah I agree, I mainly said it for Tictock, if it somehow clears his confusion and make him not tunnel on me and actually look for other mafia, you'd be the best lynch. | ||
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On June 01 2015 07:03 Tictock wrote: Ok, I'm certain I've solved the game and made a clear case about it. I can't do anything about Town being full of ostriches + Show Spoiler + Everyones head is in the sand. Nobody has a better case, nor good reasons why they don't agree with mine. Yet you are all willing to ignore my case, interesting. I'm learning a lot this game. How many mafia games have you played until now? This is my second game. In my first I was lynched on the first day. I guess everyone has given up on explaining to you why if you think I'm scum you lynch Barakos first. I will most likely die soon anyway, I hope you don't fall too hard from your cloud. Not everyone who looks scummy is a freaking scum just because they don't provide enough of a good reason for your standards. | ||
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Power role and mafia = silent so as not to give anything away. mafia and VT = confuse everyone or looks confused. | ||
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On June 02 2015 06:20 27ninjabunnies wrote: ##Unvote: ## Vote: Sickluker One day ill actually remember to bold so i dont look dumb. Why do you vote for SL if both boxerfred and SL are going afk, when before you voted for boxerfred? | ||
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On June 02 2015 03:59 KelsierSC wrote: ～ Vote Count ～ boxerfred (3) : sicklucker, disformation, 27ninjabunnies 27ninjabunnies (2) : boxerfred, Barakos Barakos (1) : Tictock disformation (0) : plotspot (0) : Not voting (1) : plotspot Currently, boxerfred is set to be lynched! The day phase will end at Monday, Jun 01 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00), about 3 hours from this post. remain as you are reading this. Remember, voting is mandatory! Place your votes in this thread. If you see any vote out of place, kill yourself. This vote count is pretty interesting: if boxerfred is mafia, Barakos is his partner. Both trying to kill bunnies, because she has been vulnerable from Day3. if boxerfred is town, 2 of dis, SL and bunnies are mafia. Dis has always voted boxerfred. Nothing new. So I please ask bunnies and SL to go back on voting boxerfred if you're really town, otherwise I have to think you both try to scur away from being responsible for boxerfred's death if he flips town. | ||
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if she is Scum, well then. ##VOTE: 27ninjabunnies all hopping away from the boxerfred train are extremely suspicious, if all of you were town. | ||
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On June 02 2015 06:54 27ninjabunnies wrote: Town deserves to lose after this day. Like how in any way have i been mafia?! IN ANY WAY! What was the fucking point of having a cop if you are going to vote the cop's green?! why you panic? if you are town and are myslynched, boxerfred and barakos are scum. Town wins. Calm down it's sure win-win. | ||
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On June 02 2015 07:37 Barakos wrote: Also plots finally and undeniably confirmed town rb, like some cool dude named barakos told you from the start. You know, there was a time when I thought you were scum. Because if you are town and was REALLY interested in saving my skin, you just say you lied (although you really were blocked) just so people lynch you and then see early that I'm Town RB. If you have done that, I'd read you 100% town immediately, because if I am Town RB I'd think "why the guy lied? I RBed him 100%). Mafia and Town might be able to perform lvl 1 WIFOM, but this lvl 2 WIFOM I don't think any scum would try, it's way too risky for mafia, as mafia you'd have to rely on me explaining this logic to town and they'd have to understand it to save your skin, while they are confused as hell as to what is what. More likely town will just ignore me and go for lynching you anyway. But if you survived with this ploy as mafia, you're even more established as a town because you're putting on a great risk when you're not only thinking 50% I save plot, 50% I save myself, but 100% I save plots for longterm town benefit. So have you considered this option and still went for the 50-50 version? I guess there are some benefits to it, especially if we can just play the normal way of lynching scum, then just forfeit your life for a confirm, which could be done in other ways, like today. | ||
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1. I RB dis, if he is mafia. No kills tonight. If he was town, I die. Dis, Barakos and Tictock just lynch SL or boxerfred. Mislynch on D5? One of you three will get killed on N5. Day 6 you lynch the other guy. Town wins. 2. I RB dis, dis is town. No NK happening, because Mafia holds their shot to mislynch dis or dis holds his own shot to WIFOM me? No problem, we just lynch Dis anyway on Day 5. N5 I RB Boxerfred or SL. Depending on what happens you apply 1 or 2 or 3 to the problem. Town wins. 3. I RB dis, they kill him. We lynch SL or boxerfred D5. Mislynch? I RB the other guy. We lynch the other guy on D6. Town wins. Anything I overlooked? Please point it out to me, it might be crucial. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9xgisVx.jpg) | ||
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On June 02 2015 19:53 Tictock wrote: @ Bara I'm trying to understand how to use that site. If I'm reading it right, if our game got rolled into having 2 RBs, either 2 for Mafia or 1 for each side, then that means one of those RB's has to be weak right? It also seems to suggest that a single mason setup is considered the same as an Innocent Child role. That would suggest Bre has to have a partner mason. So following what we know, there are 2 RBs this game, a GF, a Cop, and 2 Masons. That would mean that the likely setup for Scum is (according to that link) T = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof) Am I using that right? You're on the right track TT. There are no setups with 2 Mafia RB. But what we know you are Masons with Breshke, and there was a Cop. So the setup is rolled: CC = 1 Cop MM = 2 Masons B = RB TT = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather so it is totally possible for 1 Cop, 2 Masons, 1 RB and Goon, Mafia RB and 1 GF. | ||
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On June 02 2015 20:05 Tictock wrote: No I stopped thinking about SK seriously when you guys pointed out that it doesn't make sense that SK would hold his/her KP. Thanks for the info though. That helps me out a bit not feeling so lost with setup stuff. @plots Isn't there 2 B's though? So a single T setup. No, the B thing is just for Town RB. Mafia setup (+SK) entirely depends on the number of Ts. | ||
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As soon as I saw I'm dead, I immediately knew this was gonna be interesting between SL and BF. BF should have not CC but push for a lynch between him and dis. With dis dieing he could have hold hit shot on N5 and then mylo it, to maybe push a lynch on SL. But yeah too dangerous, dis is basically town the whole game, SL was believed to be town by both Barakos and Tictock. I was also interested in seeing what SL would do against the odds. Of course you don't trust me, I was very random in my choices, time and time again I didn't block the person I specified. You have to trust your instincts. Of course I didn't randomize anything, nor via the host nor via anything. The thing was if I announced blocking SL, BF the way he is could really just kill him, and till the end Tictock still didn't believe me to be Town RB. I didn't want to deal with this any longer on D5, but invented shit about randomizing so mafia would kill me 100%. I trusted we still have Barakos left, my lifeline the whole game, to carry it out to the end. The BF CCed was our victory 100%. I also said in my very last sentence: guy who is blocked should announce, then he gets CC by mafia and the third is town. If BF was really blocked he would have never waited so long, only as mafia you're not sure whether I blocked Dis or SL and then come out and CC. | ||
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On June 03 2015 20:42 Breshke wrote: How does BF push the lynch onto SL if SL claims blocked the night someone dies? Would that not mean he can't be mafia? It's a bit WIFOM but: just imagine BF being town and SL being mafia here. BF because he is town he just knows that Dis or SL are mafia, it doesn't matter who dies. After dis dies. He could always come out of the shadows and say he was RB. Like you still have the situation of whether you believe SL or BF, dis dieing doesn't change the situation. Then maybe maybe it could be possible. You either choose a way for town to win 100%, or with some extreme risk can still win it if you push the kill on Dis first. Sure people will come out and say why'd you reveal yourself now, then it's up to your reasoning. But as I said extremely risky stuff. | ||
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On June 03 2015 23:29 Rels wrote: Wow nice plans, would have looved to see that in action. (= Especially the first one with you getting bussed by bunnies. For the second one though, I think you are overestimating your chances, no way you have even 1 chance out of 5 that TT doesn't vote you after you CC and lynch SL. plot even made a super nice graph sealing your doom IMO. Anyway you played really good (= looking forward for next game! As soon as he CCed SL, his chances of winning the game is 0% imo. His chances to make the vote between him and Dis, and people going for Dis is about 1%, especially since Tictock, Bara, SL and Dis read him scum. After Dis dies, his chance of getting SL lynched is about 1% too. Originally I thought of sticking to the plan too, but then I saw Tictcok was still not out of his tunnel, despite his claim. He has done said to let it off 3 times, but his huge post where he imagined in detail as to what a scum!plots was doing, just indicates to me that he will come back and scumread me again. I'm not mad about him for doing this; but I have to take this into consideration. If I announced I RB SL to confirm him town, BF was very likely to kill SL, to use his chances with Tictock. He indicated that in his Scum QT. Tictock would be more like WTF? This guy blocked 3 times the NK? Something is wrong here, again. We could have deflected it and point it out to him again why if Barakos is town than I'm Town RB, but since that night he also had a new reason: I was still Mafia RB, who blocked the 3 NK, but made an exception for Barakos because we were sure Breshke was not a Vet and hence doesn't need to be RBed. It's totally low risk to just kill someone without blocking him. I basically had to do it like this, this plan only worked if I had Tictock's support 100%, because it included me still living in some scenarios. If he was still tunneled and believed I was some masterplan mafia, it would have been too dangerous, or at least inconvenient to me again. Plus Barakos and Tictock showed some uncertainty about SL that night. So I thought I'd rather clear him and let him deal with whoever is CCing him. A pity really, I'd love to see a flavour where nothing happened at night. | ||
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plotspot
800 Posts
I might be biased here. But I do not understand this whole concept of wasting votes and so on, if you see some person getting lynched and you're fine with it, then you could vote for the moon and it doesn't matter. Hence I never unvoted Dis D1, just to go on the Scott wagon. The bunnies vs SL wagon was much more interesting as both were 2v2, and since I wanted bunnies dead (also to clarify her status, it's too dangerous to leave some sort of 80% townie around, and I felt she clinged a bit too hard on the greencheck) I had to vote her first, I thought BF realized bunnies is 100% dead and just switches to SL for fun. I know if I was BF, I would have done it.^^ | ||
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plotspot
800 Posts
Boxerfred thinking his vote might have saved bunnies is in retrospect sort of indicative from how this clearance was posted immediately. While it didn't 100% trigger my suspicion, because for me another person might have wondered about it, it sure led to many people use this as evidence for scumreading BF. | ||
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plotspot
800 Posts
In any case, as someone who recognized almost all of the Touhou references, this is such a great effort by cakepie (thank you I had great fun with my role) who flavoured virtually everything. I can understand how s/he considers not doing this in the future. Btw, I think you could have used lesser fairies and youkais for VTs.About the setup, at the time I was discussing with Tictock and Barakos about that C9++ site , I already spotted that in a C9++ game the setup could have rolled as BBBCCMM too. In such a setup town would have 2 RBs, 1 Cop and the 2 Masons, while mafia still only have their RB, Goon and GF. This would even be more town favoured. I agree with your idea to expose new players to a more complex and open setup so that they can come into contact with and learn from it early on. It was very exciting. But perhaps a note saying that this semi-open setup can spawn strange role distributions would not be bad, or decide fairness on your own discretion, if you encountered the BBBCCMM for example. | ||
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