EPTthat disform post, i really like the observation on superbia a LOT. but the top part where he is pre-emptively setting up for scott to flip town irks the living hell out of me.
Newbie Student Mafia IX - Page 32
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ritoky
United States6851 Posts
that disform post, i really like the observation on superbia a LOT. but the top part where he is pre-emptively setting up for scott to flip town irks the living hell out of me. | ||
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
On May 05 2015 00:29 ritoky wrote: @disformation, what is the thing you dislike most about scott? also, if you're willing to vote on him then why aren't you now? On May 04 2015 21:45 disformation wrote: ##Vote scott31337 Voting thread. I AM voting him.  As what I really disliked: When -c- confronted him about posting misinformation he first is really aggressive: On May 03 2015 12:16 scott31337 wrote: So why are you reacting on the HtS vote so much when I did vote for sicklucker? He had his two posts? Is he your scumbuddy and not wanting to draw attention to? But HtS is free reign, eh? And then after he notices that -c- has a solid point on him he suddenly becomes ultra defensive: On May 03 2015 12:31 scott31337 wrote: You are right - I did not check it until afterwards. I did not re-read the pre-game excuses until afterwards. That was my fault. I got better backing when I roll scum anyway - I wouldn't have made such a dumb mistake. We have plenty of time - we will have convincing arguments for you a) That switch puts me off really hard. b) That is a "too scum to be scum, please?" argument, which I am not buying at that point. On May 03 2015 12:37 scott31337 wrote: We=the townsfolk? Pretty much in the same venue. He is digging himself into a hole imo... | ||
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ritoky
United States6851 Posts
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
On May 05 2015 00:42 ritoky wrote: man, why can't slam, damdred, hf, koshi, or sum1 i read really well be in this game.... that disform post, i really like the observation on superbia a LOT. but the top part where he is pre-emptively setting up for scott to flip town irks the living hell out of me. Huh? Which part do you mean with setting up for scott flipping town? =/ | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On May 05 2015 00:33 disformation wrote: Well, this strikes me as a bit odd as I kinda read this as "At this point I don't care if he is mafia or not". So I kinda get where y0su gets his feeling from. But I don't think that is anywhere close enough to dismiss the case or call -c- scum. Plus I agree on him more likely being scum. But this might me nice to keep on hand for the night phase. scott's grand total contribution so far is to mindlessly accept Superbia's claim that HtS hadn't said anything in-thread about being away, jumping on sicklucker as a different lurker and then rapidly backpedalling on that when sicklucker actually came into the thread, townreading or neutral reading everyone and effectively OMGUSing me for calling him out as a mafia, lying in order to do so, before rapidly backtracking on the accusation and then trying to townread me because everyone else is doing it. At the present he's not scumming anyone at all as far as I can tell. His last set of reads were Superbia and FF as town, Shining and y0su and me null leaning town, Ticktock null, you null leaning scum, sicklucker scum and everyone else null from lack of posts. But he rapidly backpedalled on that sicklucker accusation and vote, thus leaving his strongest negative read being you as null leaning scum which means he's just sitting in the middle ground and playing the game of "everyone is null or town, isn't that nice?" which is a gigantic red flag to me, especially since he doesn't seem to be pressuring anyone at all to actually get a scum read off anyone. If he's town he's not contributing anything worthwhile. But I severely doubt he's anything other than scum. | ||
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sicklucker
Canada16987 Posts
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ritoky
United States6851 Posts
On May 05 2015 00:46 disformation wrote: Huh? Which part do you mean with setting up for scott flipping town? =/ On May 05 2015 00:33 disformation wrote: Well, this strikes me as a bit odd as I kinda read this as "At this point I don't care if he is mafia or not". So I kinda get where y0su gets his feeling from. But I don't think that is anywhere close enough to dismiss the case or call -c- scum. Plus I agree on him more likely being scum. But this might me nice to keep on hand for the night phase. This part. It could very well come from mafia trying to set up a place to dump the blame if the lynch is sour. You're making excuses/plans before the flip has occurred; tends to happen with some1 who has no confidence in their read or is trying to shove off the blame. ALSO why you give me no credit for that "we" thing? That was totes me who found that. ROOD AS FUK! | ||
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
I suppose three months is long enough out to recover somewhat from the previous game. Wasn't sure I'd play again after that last one but... Last game I went dormant after I lost my temper after being interrogated for like six hours straight Like I said (and was asked of me) I'm definitely re-reading the case, scott's filter and the entire thread. @ritoky appreciate you straight up calling me wrong :D I guess if this is an "all in" attempt to get a ML it wouldn't be very good d1 play cause we'd just go after -c- d2? | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On May 05 2015 00:33 disformation wrote: Also regarding ritoky: He also appears very eager to place himself next to the person nearly everyone has a townboner for (FF) and someone who just did a huge push and is very easy to town as well. "Look how towny my nick looks in green." On a side note if FF turns out to be mafia I might just cry. X-D | ||
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sicklucker
Canada16987 Posts
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On May 05 2015 00:50 sicklucker wrote: So we def kill scott. Then if he flips scum we def kill super. If not maybe hts? I donno this seems solid tho If scott doesn't flip scum I'm seriously going to have to rethink everything. If scott is scum it doesn't 100% make Superbia scum but it increases the likelihood to a threshold that he's going to easily be my top Day 2 lynch. But at this point I'm about 95% certain scott can't be anything other than scum. The more I look over his posts the worse he comes off. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 04 2015 23:20 y0su wrote: It's two early things about -c-: The entire "tone" and timing of his first post followed by the relentless push towards scott. This just seems then things like followed by It's just sounds like -c- is willing to do anything to get scott (even if he's not scum?)... I do like the read on scott and haven't found anything wrong in the case. Gah. Alright, if you were a vet I'd be throwing you in the scum pile, to be honest. Even as a newbie, I think you are pretty poor at the moment. Your last two posts indicate to me you aren't reading the thread at the very least, or not considering/ignoring context, and I'll illustrate why. Starting with the above: 1 You are saying that the relentless push towards Scott is bold for someone to do in their 2nd game. "2nd game" indicates newbie, and that a newbie cannot make bold reads. Celestial has already indicated he is disregarding meta (which requires experience) twice over before you drew a conclusion on him (timestamps), which should be a justification for how he's making reads, and if (likely) he's town, it's reasonable that he should be trusting his own reads way more than other people's interpretation of meta: On May 03 2015 11:34 -Celestial- wrote: Hey guys. Sorry for the late entry. I've been somewhat distracted playing KanColle recently; there's an event on and I'm desperate to clear it, first event I've been in. Anyway there's probably just about enough to write something on most people now so...off we go. Unfortunately in the time I've been away I've NOT been keeping an eye on games going on. Then again I tend to prefer any meta reading from games people have actually been in together. On with the show: On May 03 2015 21:44 -Celestial- wrote: I have absolute confidence in my reads actually. My comment about keeping an eye on games was meant to be directed at the fact that I'm not using people's prior game experience as a source of info because I was expecting people to throw the usual "he/she/I alway(s) plays like this!" stuff at me in response to my reads. I mean why would experience be required to make bold town reads? Meta reads are not the only way to scumhunt and he's already acknowledged he is ignoring a method that requires experience. On May 04 2015 02:41 y0su wrote: without experience, it doesn't feel like something town would do (and this is -c-'s 2nd game afaik) 2 The contradiction in your final sentence. You think Celestial is willing to do anything to get Scott, yet you say now you like the read on Scott, which covers (at least) the same points for basis that Celestial had in his initial scumread. Your hesistation on voting Scott comes from a bad feeling you had about Celestial. That basis does NOT change when he presents the case now on Celestial. I saw your quotes. The first one (absolute confidence) he's already justified and I re-illustrated it. The second one I think you are taking out of context. You aren't even evaluating the context that Celestial is putting it in. On May 03 2015 21:44 -Celestial- wrote: You're misrepresenting things again here. I already said in my last post that of my three red reads it was the weakest, AND that it wasn't just for the push on disinformation. Stop trying to pretend that it was solely for that push. I didn't like disinformation's opening post, no. But ultimately disinformation has posted stuff other than that so far. ritoky's actions up to that point had been to post garbage and pressure disinformation. Literally nothing else. disinformation's other posts make me somewhat think he's just a very newbie town player with a bad opening post. ritoky on the other hand hadn't posted anything at all to make me think he's not just trying to distract from mafia hunting. Given that both you and scott are scum, ritoky was the one who seemed to be looking to misdirect the most at that point. >Claiming that a post containing two and a half town reads, three red reads and a bunch of nulls on people who are primarily inactive or new is fluffy in an attempt to make me look wishy-washy and unconfident. Nice try, but you've just confirmed you're mafia. This chainsaw defence you're using for your scum buddy scott proves it. You're attacking his attacker, which is scummy as hell. Admittedly there's an outside chance that you're just OMGUSing me, but I think you're too experienced a player to do that, you're instead trying to save your buddy. At a guess you've told him in the mafia QT to shut up for a bit and stop making himself look worse whilst you try to get a different train going by undermining me and take the heat off him. I've highlighted the key words in bold. Now to be fair, I can't tell if he's saying that ritoky or Superbia is "confirmed" mafia. I think he means Superbia here. But either way he justifies where his reads are coming from, and that's observable behaviour. He's offering a motive, yes the motive could be flawed since it's pre-associative flips (which a lot of people do as both alignments), but ultimately it's not one that requires experience. So as I questioned in my previous post, I can't figure out why you're still hesistant to vote Scott if you don't like Scott based on a case you seemed okay with. You don't like the person that cased him but I can't see where you've evaluated 1) his case for flaws and 2) the context on which you are scumreading him on. It's circular reasoning that quite frankly not only makes my head spin, but makes me wonder if you're coming up with a read for the sake of coming up with a read. Am I making sense? | ||
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
On May 05 2015 00:50 -Celestial- wrote: scott's grand total contribution so far is to mindlessly accept Superbia's claim that HtS hadn't said anything in-thread about being away, jumping on sicklucker as a different lurker and then rapidly backpedalling on that when sicklucker actually came into the thread, townreading or neutral reading everyone and effectively OMGUSing me for calling him out as a mafia, lying in order to do so, before rapidly backtracking on the accusation and then trying to townread me because everyone else is doing it. At the present he's not scumming anyone at all as far as I can tell. His last set of reads were Superbia and FF as town, Shining and y0su and me null leaning town, Ticktock null, you null leaning scum, sicklucker scum and everyone else null from lack of posts. But he rapidly backpedalled on that sicklucker accusation and vote, thus leaving his strongest negative read being you as null leaning scum which means he's just sitting in the middle ground and playing the game of "everyone is null or town, isn't that nice?" which is a gigantic red flag to me, especially since he doesn't seem to be pressuring anyone at all to actually get a scum read off anyone. If he's town he's not contributing anything worthwhile. But I severely doubt he's anything other than scum. On May 05 2015 00:51 ritoky wrote: This part. It could very well come from mafia trying to set up a place to dump the blame if the lynch is sour. You're making excuses/plans before the flip has occurred; tends to happen with some1 who has no confidence in their read or is trying to shove off the blame. ALSO why you give me no credit for that "we" thing? That was totes me who found that. ROOD AS FUK! Thank you both very much for your answers. Thought process: 1. y0su seems suspicious of -c-. Let me reread the case again. 2. Case still seems super solid. 3. I find the part I quoted. 4. Well, if there was anything strange with that post I would be that part. Let us see if -c- has anything to say on that? 5. ... 6. Oh shit, what if scott should turn out townie? What should town do then? Part of that maybe that I as a newbie are not that confident in my reads overall. Tbh not the most confident guy overall.  Though I should stop worrying. I just can't find anything that I read as town for scott... And sry for not including your quote as the one who called out scott for the we thing. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 00:51 y0su wrote: I was thinking about it at the store... I think my tone problem with -c- is that he comes off as emotional. Like I said (and was asked of me) I'm definitely re-reading the case, scott's filter and the entire thread. @ritoky appreciate you straight up calling me wrong :D I guess if this is an "all in" attempt to get a ML it wouldn't be very good d1 play cause we'd just go after -c- d2? If you are town, you might be having the same problem as ritoky then. I was on that very same scum team with Celestial (with sicklucker as one of our two coaches) and I can tell you exactly how emotional he was. geript, myself, etc tried to calm him down. He had mentioned he was such as both alignments. If you go to his filter in the database and then click on the # of that thread, you get the full thread for Newbie LX. In the endgame post, you can click on the mafia qt and you'll know what I mean. | ||
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 00:51 ritoky wrote: This part. It could very well come from mafia trying to set up a place to dump the blame if the lynch is sour. You're making excuses/plans before the flip has occurred; tends to happen with some1 who has no confidence in their read or is trying to shove off the blame. ALSO why you give me no credit for that "we" thing? That was totes me who found that. ROOD AS FUK! Okay, this is a fair point. But I see this statement from both alignments. Second question for ritoky then, as a veteran surely by now, you've seen others make the same statements from townies commenting on players who might be playing suboptimally or whose town meta is close to scum meta (think batsnacks, kushm4sta, Blazinghand, sicklucker, LightningStrike, etc). Why is it (or do you think it is) unreasonable to imagine Celestial could be making such an observation as town? The mafia rationale makes sense, but why wouldn't the town rationale for this same statement? | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 01:08 y0su wrote: @hts, I get what I've been missing... (see my last post). If scum pushes super hard for a d1 that just leaves town with an easy d2 target. So pushing hard d1 (especially that "early") would be a town move. Alright, fair enough. Just caught that after I posted. | ||
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On May 05 2015 01:03 Half the Sky wrote: Now to be fair, I can't tell if he's saying that ritoky or Superbia is "confirmed" mafia. I think he means Superbia here. For clarity's sake: I was stating that Superbia was the one who was very, very strongly mafia at that point. I was exaggerating a bit to see what his response was, but he's basically second in line behind scott for the chopping block so far as I'm concerned. On May 05 2015 01:03 disformation wrote: 4. Well, if there was anything strange with that post I would be that part. Let us see if -c- has anything to say on that? I don't quite get what you're asking here. Please ask a direct question with a quote and I'll answer. | ||
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