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On May 04 2015 22:13 y0su wrote:
That said, I'm still not shaking the strange feeling that you're trying too hard to get a ML.. (hence I'm not jumping on the scott train yet.)
Have your feelings towards ritoky changed? I still see his "loopy" entrance as a red flag (as big if not bigger than people that haven't been posting).
I know you are new to the game, but someone making a scumread on someone early in the day and then pushing him throughout the day is considered a town tell across the board because it shows the person pushing the case believes in the case and he's not just faking it for survivability's sake.
If you think the reasoning behind the case is faulty (do you?) then that's another issue.
Regarding ritoky (and others) - as I said with sicklucker it's very possible to have a very poor entrance and then pick it up later on. Some people are good at spotting mafia off the first post, particularly the established players like marvellosity/Holyflare/JAT but this is a newbie game, so the calibre isn't expected to be the same.
Do you think ritoky looks bad from subsequent posts?
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On May 04 2015 22:21 Half the Sky wrote:
If you think the reasoning behind the case is faulty (do you?) then that's another issue.
EBWOP - clarification - do you (y0su) think Celestial's reasoning behind the case is faulty?
And if so, what are the specifics you have problems with?
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If I'm being completely honest with myself as well...yes I kinda wanted to see three reds. So that may have biased me a little against ritoky. Plus his posting style opened up weird as hell which rubbed me the wrong way. Like I've said several times now he's probably my weakest mafia read.
But with scott and Superbia I'm less unsure. I could maybe be convinced Superbia isn't mafia with a titanic effort and some really good arguments but I doubt the word of god him or herself will be enough to convince me that scott isn't red.
If you honestly think I'm trying to get a mislynch then vote for me instead. But if that were to happen then when I flip town I want everyone to go back and look again at the case on scott because to me he's the dirtiest person in here by far.
ritoky is eh to me right now. I still don't like the joking around and there's a certain amount of circumstantial evidence linking him with Superbia. But he's also been making more of an effort that he was initially (admittedly that's not hard). Still leaning scum, but on balance I don't think his position has changed too much in my eyes. He's still scummy but still my weakest read and I could be convinced otherwise on him much more easily than scott or Superbia.
I was originally planning to write a full new set of reads for everyone today but since there's less than ten hours left and since I really doubt anyone could look worse to me than scott at this point I'm not sure its worth doing until after the flip when I'll have the votes to look at as well. Unless something comes up in the meantime to force me to do it early, of course.
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On May 04 2015 02:00 ritoky wrote:prp is town because i literally mind melded him here: Show nested quote +On May 03 2015 08:40 prplhz wrote:On May 03 2015 08:34 The Shining wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and be as useless as always D1. Let's do this. Willing to lynch Super, FF, Scott so far.
Super wants to lynch Scott for opening with a town claim. FF and Super willing to lynch Scott off that. It's cuz Scott looks bad off of an unpressured town claim. FF and Super setting up to bus Scott d1 if needed.
Super, FF, Scott scumteam gg this is rubbing me the WRONG WAY
Question for ritoky - prp has four posts. I took a different conclusion from this post. How do you know that Shining wasn't being sarcastic for him to rub you the wrong way? Opening hour/bullshit phase of the game, these comments were made.
(From your mind meld comment, I assume you had scummed Shining for this too.)
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EBWOP - And I mentioned his low post count largely because there's very little else you could use to draw that town conclusion.
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On May 04 2015 22:23 -Celestial- wrote:
ritoky is eh to me right now. I still don't like the joking around and there's a certain amount of circumstantial evidence linking him with Superbia. But he's also been making more of an effort that he was initially (admittedly that's not hard). Still leaning scum, but on balance I don't think his position has changed too much in my eyes. He's still scummy but still my weakest read and I could be convinced otherwise on him much more easily than scott or Superbia.
ritoky is a very good scum player, so I do fear him generally speaking. However, for this game, I am also taking into context he doesn't know some of the players as well as I do. For example his read on Shining is likely wrong - between hosting and playing with Shining, I know Shining to be a very emotional player as both alignments (though more so as town I think) so his tone doesn't bother me whereas ritoky is seeing Shining as overreacting. For him not knowing Shining (don't recall those two playing together) his read on Shining is reasonable.
The problem I do have with ritoky on this read is that he's willing to lynch Shining on what appears to be a tone read whereas earlier he's questioned Scott 3x in page 2 of his own filter, and then he indicates again he has a problem with Scott's gameplay. More substantive than a tone read. It should take precedence over a tone read. In theory anyways.
On May 04 2015 09:08 ritoky wrote:
overreact much? way too defensive in response to the tiniest of comments. as for why the way you phrase things bugs the living shit out of me; it is pretty much irrelevant to explain. you're just kinda like sqrtneg1 i think. everything you type regardless of content or alignment indicativeness just makes me want to lynch you. i need to train myself to try and read the content rather than just want to lynch you. for example: i avoided getting bothered here and noted your large overreaction, which pushes you toward being more scum.
Then I read sentences like the bolded and it very well could be a townie tripping over confirmation bias.
I like how ritoky questioned Superbia for not providing the alignment indicative info on SL though. He also seemed trying to find something on y0su in figuring his alignment. Though he couldn't conclude because he left open the fact y0su's gameplay was due to the fact he's newish and offered him advice. Could be done as either alignment.
For now, as I had stated, I still maintain that light townread on him. I'd have to see more.
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And if something is considered a town tell wouldn't scum jump on an opportunity to do it (if they thought they could pull it off)? I'd assume that especially in a newbie game a gamble like that would have less risk and more reward...
ML is how they win right?
I haven't found any fault in the case (again, first one I've read) and I have nothing but that uncomfortable feeling towards -c- keeping me from voting Scott...
reg ritoky's subsequent posts... He starts loopy, get's straight but then it reverts a bit when ff brings it up On May 03 2015 11:00 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2015 10:57 Fecalfeast wrote:On May 03 2015 10:52 ritoky wrote:
poopfeast420, what is your level of loathing of me? you have the pinkish hue of scumlean. Call me an ass but I think your 'loopiness' may be caused by rolling mafia too many times in a short period, rather than a flight oof, you have bad reads m8, u scum?
He then posts in a normally but without much for me to get a read from.
His T reads didn't have much to them except "they agreed with me".
He's very dismissive of "poor reads" on him.. but I can't his comfort (not being defensive) comes from practice or being T.
overall I just don't like his tone (but this is probably just personal and NAI)
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On May 04 2015 22:47 y0su wrote:
And if something is considered a town tell wouldn't scum jump on an opportunity to do it (if they thought they could pull it off)? I'd assume that especially in a newbie game a gamble like that would have less risk and more reward...
ML is how they win right?
I haven't found any fault in the case (again, first one I've read) and I have nothing but that uncomfortable feeling towards -c- keeping me from voting Scott...
Yes. In a 13-person setup, assuming no medic saves and no vigilante, scum need 4 mislynches to win.
Yes a top player can easily look town in a sea of scummy looking town players. But like I said, it's not THAT the push is happening, it's HOW the push is happening that usually differentiates town from scum. Earlier = more towny for example. More consistent pushes. There has to be solid evidence (i.e. a DT check) for him to back off, or a scum flip off one of his solid townreads to work backwards for someone to consider changing their read.
I gather that this "uncomfortable feeling" towards Celestial is a tone read, and I can infer that you have some sort of weak scum read based on his tone. But surely there's a post somewhere that has stoked this feeling given the content Celestial has pointed and the fact you have mentioned this feeling twice.
Can you point it out?
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On May 04 2015 02:41 y0su wrote:
well, that's the problem, look at the biggest back and forth we've had: -c- vs scott.
-c- came in with what I feel was a very bold 1st post (list) that bugged me. why would he pick 3 scum out of the active players and and let others slide just because he didn't have a read (afk/low post count)?
he had some decent points, but was it all to put on pressure or to start swaying people?
without experience, it doesn't feel like something town would do (and this is -c-'s 2nd game afaik)
that followed into the rather aggressive finger pointing with scott.
I had a weird feel from him from the start and non of what -c- said helped him... but again it just feels like "an easy target" to try to get people to bandwagon.
...but all that leaves me is not wanting to vote for either one (yet).
Alright, so I went back to this post of yours - this is where I think you had this bad feeling on Celestial.
Now, let's take a slightly different approach.
1 Let's pretend Celestial doesn't exist. Look at Scott's filter alone. Independent of Celestial, what do you think of Scott?
2 There have been a few comments and respective reads on scumming afk players (like me, sicklucker), etc. Do you understand now why Celestial did what he did with low-content players?
#2 made you uncomfortable on Celestial then the way I read this. Are you still uncomfortable now?
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I have a meeting at work. I will be back.
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EBWOP:
He's very dismissive of "poor reads" on him.. but I can't tell if his comfort (not being defensive) comes from practice or being T.
It's two early things about -c-: The entire "tone" and timing of his first post followed by the relentless push towards scott.
This just seems strange bold for someone to do in their 2nd game.
then things like
I have absolute confidence in my reads actually
Nice try, but you've just confirmed you're mafia.
followed by
Guys, lets lynch scott. Personally I'm about 95% sure he's mafia at this point and if he's not he's playing in a way detrimental to town anyway.
It's just sounds like -c- is willing to do anything to get scott (even if he's not scum?)... I do like the read on scott and haven't found anything wrong in the case.
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On May 04 2015 23:04 Half the Sky wrote:
I have a meeting at work. I will be back.
I need to go to the store too, we'll pick this back up a bit later :D
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VOTE COUNT:
scott31337 (4) : -Celestial-, sicklucker, disformation, Half the Sky
sicklucker (1) : The Shining (X), scott31337 (X), Superbia
-Celestial- (0) : Superbia (X)
Half the Sky (0) : Superbia (X)
Not voting (8) : FecalFeast, prplhz, ritoky, scott31337, Stutters695, The Shining, Tictock, y0su
The cycle will end at Monday, May 04 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00), 8 hours from this post.
remain as you are reading this.
Remember, voting is mandatory! Place your votes in the voting thread.
Currently, scott31337 is set to be lynched!
If you see any vote out of place, holler at the hosting team so that we can correct it.
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Okay, I will be available for (most) of the next 9 hours. 
If anyone has questions regarding my huge wall post (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=29#575) feel free to axe me some questions.
Meanwhile I'll look at some filters and the last pages, which seem really interesting.
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On May 04 2015 23:20 y0su wrote:
It's just sounds like -c- is willing to do anything to get scott (even if he's not scum?)... I do like the read on scott and haven't found anything wrong in the case.
Let me put it another way: I'm not infallible and I'm not running this game so I don't have a list of who is which alignment.
That being said if scott isn't mafia then firstly he's being totally useless as a town and secondly I'll have to find a hat to eat. There is no way I can see him as anything other than scum with his actions in this thread.
Seven and a half hours remaining. I really can't see anything that indicates that anyone else would be a better day 1 lynch than scott so far.
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trying to decide whether or not y0su is my top town.
he is doing what i did as town when i started on these forums, finding something that feels "strange" to him and really trying to dig into it. he is wrong here, but the process he is going through is something i like a lot.
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Still highly unimpressed by HtS. I don't think I have been town with HtS in a very long time though. Last time I was, she screamed town to me. Maybe there was some leveling of play so she is less easy to catch? Idk, all of those reads are summary information and pretty much already made by others in the thread. There isn't really anything there that hasn't been thought by some1 else. Further she quotes some of the exact posts I looked at and then has the opposite reaction which makes me go "EHHHHH!?"
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@disformation, what is the thing you dislike most about scott? also, if you're willing to vote on him then why aren't you now?
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On May 04 2015 21:22 -Celestial- wrote:
scott is either scum or is playing horribly scummy town. Either way he's a total liability and I would not be surprised in the slightest to see him flip red.
Well, this strikes me as a bit odd as I kinda read this as "At this point I don't care if he is mafia or not". So I kinda get where y0su gets his feeling from. But I don't think that is anywhere close enough to dismiss the case or call -c- scum. Plus I agree on him more likely being scum. But this might me nice to keep on hand for the night phase.
On May 04 2015 22:21 Half the Sky wrote:
I know you are new to the game, but someone making a scumread on someone early in the day and then pushing him throughout the day is considered a town tell across the board because it shows the person pushing the case believes in the case and he's not just faking it for survivability's sake.
If you think the reasoning behind the case is faulty (do you?) then that's another issue.
Regarding ritoky (and others) - as I said with sicklucker it's very possible to have a very poor entrance and then pick it up later on. Some people are good at spotting mafia off the first post, particularly the established players like marvellosity/Holyflare/JAT but this is a newbie game, so the calibre isn't expected to be the same.
Do you think ritoky looks bad from subsequent posts?
I really like this post because HtS both gives advice and at the same time tries to draw more information from him and be more exact with his reads. Starting to lean town on HtS.
On May 04 2015 22:47 y0su wrote:reg ritoky's subsequent posts... He starts loopy, get's straight but then it reverts a bit when ff brings it up Show nested quote +On May 03 2015 11:00 ritoky wrote:On May 03 2015 10:57 Fecalfeast wrote:On May 03 2015 10:52 ritoky wrote:
poopfeast420, what is your level of loathing of me? you have the pinkish hue of scumlean. Call me an ass but I think your 'loopiness' may be caused by rolling mafia too many times in a short period, rather than a flight oof, you have bad reads m8, u scum? He then posts in a normally but without much for me to get a read from. His T reads didn't have much to them except "they agreed with me". He's very dismissive of "poor reads" on him.. but I can't his comfort (not being defensive) comes from practice or being T. overall I just don't like his tone (but this is probably just personal and NAI)
Also regarding ritoky:
On May 03 2015 12:04 ritoky wrote:
ritoky, ff, -c-
we will start from here
He also appears very eager to place himself next to the person nearly everyone has a townboner for (FF) and someone who just did a huge push and is very easy to town as well. "Look how towny my nick looks in green."
Also just remembered that Superbia was asking The Shining about the links to his other games:
On May 04 2015 06:51 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2015 01:58 Superbia wrote:On May 04 2015 01:54 ritoky wrote:On May 04 2015 01:46 Superbia wrote:
Ritoky you want to share your scum reads so far or do you just wanna chill and see for a little? maybe scott and maybe shining atm are my top 2. not particularly firm on either. am moreso looking for towns right now. i think me, ff, -c- are pretty much town. then superbia, and prp are 2nd tier town for now. I like shining as scum too. I'm undecided on scott. I had him as town early on. I'm decently sure -c- is town here as well. Undecided on prp, but I liked his initial thoughts. Also agreed on FF being town. You never rescinded so ya, it was another time throwing scum after the HtS "slip". And sure, though they're all Newbie/Student games, and can be found with a little effort. Town/Blue games: Newbie Mini Mafia LXNewbie Mini Mafia LXINewbie Student Mafia VIIINewbie Student Mafia VIINewbie Student Mafia VIMy lone scum game: Student Mafia V
Was looking if Superbia mentioned these games in his list post entry of the shining and yes he did:
On May 04 2015 10:08 Superbia wrote:
The Shining - Meh. I've said stuff about him before which kinda holds. His aggressiveness towards me feels kinda townish, as I don't really expect mafia to be aggro towards me (big ego), but they still might. His filter content wise feels very similar to his town filters, but he seems very bitter and sardonic this game, while in his other town games he is decently jokey and relaxed. Bitterness is a mafia tell. I am hesitant because this purely comes from his interactions with me.
So that is one townie brownie for superbia. Still suspicious of him though.
And before I forget again:
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EPT
