The possible actions that could result from using the orb are as follows:
1 one-time rolecheck on the given target 2 one-time track ability
so the first one is the guy with the orb checks the target and the second one is the guy with the orb gives a one-shot track to the target? Or is that a typo and the target gets tracked?
On March 10 2015 21:23 marvellosity wrote: yeah, without making any comment on balance, I wouldn't even think about using it.
It feels like it should be something which creates more of a decision/dilemma for use. Atm it's just not close to worth it, no dilemma or decision I have to make.
edit: it's especially impossible/useless for mafia to use, which means anyone who does actually use it is very very likely to be town
what are you even talking about. You get to make a lastsecond post writing nothing but yolo. If that's not reason enough to use the orb I don't know what else would be.
On March 11 2015 01:52 Blazinghand wrote: could just get rid of the self-kp option and it's like a joat item that wanders
Yea but given the probabilities then it's just town-favoured.
I think that it needs some more benefits for mafia as they are more unlikely to get it.
meh, if we have it replace a blue role in our balance (or probably replace 1.5 blue roles since scum can't just shoot this dead) it acts a lot like a JOAT. Simple and doesn't require that much tweaking
But it's a JOAT that can confirm people town who get it and have a lucky roll, any town is going to use this on their scumreads, and mafia won't share the results unless they roll track and happen to hit somebody who visits one of their NKs.
Not really happy with a wandering town confirmation machine.
I'm not so sure about that. I like BHs idea as well actually.
If it's just like what it says in the OP without the death that means track, cop, KP and RB are left over. Leaving out the death is already buffing it for mafia because it gets usuable in the first place.
Sure, track and cop are townfavored but KP is really good for mafia as well. RB should be better for mafia as well and track isn't useless for mafia at all. And you can only get every action once so it's really not like it's a wandering town confirmation machine imo.
Oh yeah, it's just rolecop and not a regular cop. Sounds good without the death to me.
browser game called Kantai collection that has been pretty famous for the last 2 years or so. That being said it's quite a struggle to get an account, especially if you can't read japanese. And well it's... let's just say the target audiance is obviously males. As an example the enemy boss from above and how she looks ingame:
Kind of a mixture between.... wargame (because the girls are actually all WW2 battleships) and pokemon (because you essentially try to get them all for your collection) mixed with anime looks. I've seen a chinese rip-off that's basicly the same but with all the characters being topless (when hurt), well trained, good looking guys
Aaaaand I'm officially the creepiest guy around in this game
On March 12 2015 08:44 Alakaslam wrote: I was going to ask for the Arizona till I learned of the Axis powers bias
But, it is what it is, anime is Japanese and BMW is German
So
it's not really Axis bias but just japanese ships bias because it's japanese. Half a year ago it was 200 japanese ships and maybe 1 german, now it's 250 japanese ships and....5 german?
We're all waiting for UK ships though, devs mentioned something about prince of wales I think? Don't think they'll include US ships anytime soon though.
For not for I have rolled town and I will lead us to glorious days of dancing under rainbows while lynching all of mafia. Gone are the days when I just showed that I'm blatantly town to everyone and lose nontheless because I trusted people that want to get attention.
For that I ask you to vote to become your mayor so we can slay all of mafia. The position of my personal sheriff is still open and I shall announce the guy or girl that gets that position soon!
On March 19 2015 08:18 Toadesstern wrote: sup guyses
For not for I have rolled town and I will lead us to glorious days of dancing under rainbows while lynching all of mafia. Gone are the days when I just showed that I'm blatantly town to everyone and lose nontheless because I trusted people that want to get attention.
For that I ask you to vote to become your mayor so we can slay all of mafia. The position of my personal sheriff is still open and I shall announce the guy or girl that gets that position soon!
also mafia
that's 2 now
mafia list
slam toad
well you don't get to be my sheriff with that attitude
On March 19 2015 08:22 Palmar wrote: Also I think Toad tried to get elected as a mayor (in a no election game) last time too, so technically he's maybe imitating his town game.
I've basicly copy & pasted that post as I've done in my last.... 5 or so games in a row, both as mafia as well as town. So why don't you go ahead and explain a little more in detail about what you think rather than just killing me for "I don't know, I forgot what I don't like about toad but he's mafia" like you did last time?
On March 19 2015 08:22 Palmar wrote: Also I think Toad tried to get elected as a mayor (in a no election game) last time too, so technically he's maybe imitating his town game.
I've basicly copy & pasted that post as I've done in my last.... 5 or so games in a row, both as mafia as well as town. So why don't you go ahead and explain a little more in detail about what you think rather than just killing me for "I don't know, I forgot what I don't like about toad but he's mafia" like you did last time?
You used colors and formatting and didn't type "guyses" last time. In hindsight that was far more townie than this.
last time I was sitting there waiting for the game. This time I'm boating and alt-tabbing while torping the shit out of people, so not exactly time for colors right now.
Last time you also tried to kill me for it. I can only assume that you're joking right now to get something started? There's no way you'd just repeat the same shit you did last time, mislynched and ragequitted afterwards, right?
On March 19 2015 09:02 Palmar wrote: I actually kinda sorta maybe believe my reasons for voting Toad. Both of the things I said are true.
#1 "guyses" is not a word any viable human being utters in a normal sentence. #2 He is half-assedly copying what was a much cooler play when he was town
so we know the first thing is a lie from you because you didn't even bother to check a simple TL search for me, despite knowing that you did exactly the same bullshit the last game we played together in which you lynched me when we both were town. I'm starting to believe you're doing this on purpose and not just to start some discussion.
The second thing is the same bullshit you did without explaining anything just "kill toad" you did last game as well and again, I'd think you'd not repeat that especially after last game and having ragequitted there.
On March 19 2015 09:02 Palmar wrote: I actually kinda sorta maybe believe my reasons for voting Toad. Both of the things I said are true.
#1 "guyses" is not a word any viable human being utters in a normal sentence. #2 He is half-assedly copying what was a much cooler play when he was town
so we know the first thing is a lie from you because you didn't even bother to check a simple TL search for me, despite knowing that you did exactly the same bullshit the last game we played together in which you lynched me when we both were town. I'm starting to believe you're doing this on purpose and not just to start some discussion.
The second thing is the same bullshit you did without explaining anything just "kill toad" you did last game as well and again, I'd think you'd not repeat that especially after last game and having ragequitted there.
24. Toadesstern As Queen Zeal, Was Lynched Cycle 5!
as mafia
gg
did you even bother going through the list? You see I'm using it in my towngames as well: first game is this, second game is JoaT that has Toadesstern in the OP. There are posts in there from outside of mafiagames, yet you only mention one where I was mafia and Palmar didn't even bother to check it at all? Why not come to the conclusion that I'm just using that word a lot no matter what? Even in irc when not playing mafia...
On March 19 2015 09:02 Palmar wrote: I actually kinda sorta maybe believe my reasons for voting Toad. Both of the things I said are true.
#1 "guyses" is not a word any viable human being utters in a normal sentence. #2 He is half-assedly copying what was a much cooler play when he was town
so we know the first thing is a lie from you because you didn't even bother to check a simple TL search for me, despite knowing that you did exactly the same bullshit the last game we played together in which you lynched me when we both were town. I'm starting to believe you're doing this on purpose and not just to start some discussion.
The second thing is the same bullshit you did without explaining anything just "kill toad" you did last game as well and again, I'd think you'd not repeat that especially after last game and having ragequitted there.
So why are you doing this Palmar?
24. Toadesstern As Queen Zeal, Was Lynched Cycle 5!
as mafia
gg
did you even bother going through the list? You see I'm using it in my towngames as well: first game is this, second game is JoaT that has Toadesstern in the OP. There are posts in there from outside of mafiagames, yet you only mention one where I was mafia and Palmar didn't even bother to check it at all? Why not come to the conclusion that I'm just using that word a lot no matter what? Even in irc when not playing mafia...
no i didn't bother because it was far too much effort and I don't really care enough to click past one game (+ i still thought joat was ongoing for some reason)
but this doesn't matter because what palmar said is true because it's exactly how I felt
how does it not matter that he 1) mislynched me as town last game we played together going so far as to ragequit after I flipped town because he thought I'm scummy based on my wording d1 2) Goes on to lie about me in this game and how I'd never use that word, shown by the search above without giving a care in the world about what happened last game nor checking if what he's saying about me is correct this time around
In fact it's even worse because this time I can show that he's just lying out of his ass because instead of only writing "kill Toad" he's going a little more into detail... except that he's making shit up that's wrong.
Answer me these two questions: Did you read the game I'm talking about? If you did, what are the chances of Palmar going into the game like this? If you didn't read the game go ask Artanis, he hosted that game. If you know the game you know the chances are 0% if Palmar is actually serious about this and not just pulling some bullshit and since that seems to be the case
On March 19 2015 09:55 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Actually I just ctrl-f'd Palmar's filter from that game and he only said it 28 times. Also, he didn't ragequit after. I believe it was weekend and then he got almost instahammered.
he said something along the lines of "sorry" after the lynch and nothing else until game was over...
On March 19 2015 09:54 Holyflare wrote: um so you're saying palmar doesn't check if you use that word but says you probably wouldn't say it and that makes him mafia??? bro I did the same thing and I even pointed out the post first (AND you said you used it in your past 5 games and you aren't even going after me at all????) and i'm not mafia
how does any of that make him mafia?
You didn't spend 48 hours writing nothing else but "Kill Toad" and "his D1 tone seems off" only to mislynch me by bullying town into lynching me so I couldn't care less about you right now. But there's literally no way Palmar is going to be unaffected by a game like that only to pull off the same thing again.
Go read that game. There's literally 0% chances of Palmar accusing me of the same thing this game if he was town.
On March 19 2015 10:03 Trfel wrote: Like Superbia said, it would really be nice to know how many mafia are in this game. Is it 4 or 5?
Edeeeeen I'm feeling a Truffle tunnel coming on >< like no shit almost as strong as the Student V read Truffle tunnel
am i wrong?
...i'm not actually sure that you're wrong why did he narrow it down to 4 or 5 if he didn't know how many mafia there are?
Why 4 or 5? Because those are (to the best of my knowledge) the only possibilities. Superbia's only answer was 7, and I don't think that is true.
The recent Titanic mafia was 17 players, with one third party, so 16 players. There were 4 mafia. I believe the standard large games (Carol of the Bells, Imperial Mafia, for example) have 5 mafia. Thus, I expect this game to have 4 or 5 mafia.
I'm asking because I feel that it is helpful to know how many mafia are in the game. Maybe you disagree, but I would like to know. And I don't have enough experience to really know if there would be 4 or 5 mafia, especially not compared to many of the players in this game.
Why the fuck did you feel the need to justify your question to this degree?
I really like his answer
What townie would feel the need to type out a whole post regarding this? Why even feel the need to justify it? Doesn't sit right with me.
bringing it up in the first place was stupid. The answer itself seems okay. You don't care about how it looks unless you're mafia, you just post. You can make a case that it's talking about things that don't matter but I think he'd be more likely to keep it short as a mafia in that case simply because he'd be much more aware of it in that case. In this case he doesn't give a fuck and just posts what's on his mind to explain it properly.
The Slam read is bullshit. Way too early to read him. Palmar is still mafia.
On March 19 2015 10:03 Trfel wrote: Like Superbia said, it would really be nice to know how many mafia are in this game. Is it 4 or 5?
Edeeeeen I'm feeling a Truffle tunnel coming on >< like no shit almost as strong as the Student V read Truffle tunnel
am i wrong?
...i'm not actually sure that you're wrong why did he narrow it down to 4 or 5 if he didn't know how many mafia there are?
Why 4 or 5? Because those are (to the best of my knowledge) the only possibilities. Superbia's only answer was 7, and I don't think that is true.
The recent Titanic mafia was 17 players, with one third party, so 16 players. There were 4 mafia. I believe the standard large games (Carol of the Bells, Imperial Mafia, for example) have 5 mafia. Thus, I expect this game to have 4 or 5 mafia.
I'm asking because I feel that it is helpful to know how many mafia are in the game. Maybe you disagree, but I would like to know. And I don't have enough experience to really know if there would be 4 or 5 mafia, especially not compared to many of the players in this game.
Why the fuck did you feel the need to justify your question to this degree?
I really like his answer
What townie would feel the need to type out a whole post regarding this? Why even feel the need to justify it? Doesn't sit right with me.
bringing it up in the first place was stupid. The answer itself seems okay. You don't care about how it looks unless you're mafia, you just post. You can make a case that it's talking about things that don't matter but I think he'd be more likely to keep it short as a mafia in that case simply because he'd be much more aware of it in that case. In this case he doesn't give a fuck and just posts what's on his mind to explain it properly.
The Slam read is bullshit. Way too early to read him. Palmar is still mafia.
early?
what does that have to do with reading me?
it's hard to read you without having a shitton of data
On March 19 2015 10:25 Superbia wrote: Toad gimme some thoughts on SL.
like I just said, I have no idea what people are talking about and asked people to summarize it for me.
If I am to believe what Slam just said about him lying about not remembering anything from a game he supposedly was in himself (is that what the emoticons are about?) that seems weird, as well as what Artanis just pointed out. I don't like people saying "I can't remember anything he said" like 1 hour in. If it's a lurker and it's 1 or 2 days in sure but like this that just sounds odd and like he's trying to sugarcoat. He could have just gone out of his way with balls and say "didn't read anything Artanis said so far" but didn't and instead blamed it on not remembering something.... 1 hour in.
I'd like to get some name of the game people are talking about though so I don't just have to trust what I think Slam is trying to get at here so that I can pretend to read some old games, not do it after all and hastely do it like 5 hours before deadline in the end.
On March 19 2015 10:25 Superbia wrote: Toad gimme some thoughts on SL.
like I just said, I have no idea what people are talking about and asked people to summarize it for me.
If I am to believe what Slam just said about him lying about not remembering anything from a game he supposedly was in himself (is that what the emoticons are about?) that seems weird, as well as what Artanis just pointed out. I don't like people saying "I can't remember anything he said" like 1 hour in. If it's a lurker and it's 1 or 2 days in sure but like this that just sounds odd and like he's trying to sugarcoat. He could have just gone out of his way with balls and say "didn't read anything Artanis said so far" but didn't and instead blamed it on not remembering something.... 1 hour in.
I'd like to get some name of the game people are talking about though so I don't just have to trust what I think Slam is trying to get at here so that I can pretend to read some old games, not do it after all and hastely do it like 5 hours before deadline in the end.
Horn of Africa.
It's actually in HF's filter and is largely the reason I am rescinding the full on scumread for a null.
On February 06 2015 04:41 Eden1892 wrote: Who's ready for my incredibly shitty scumtell on rsoultin She's posted like 5 emoticons the whole game so she's mafia because she's not laid back and postin like she would as town
Cool bro? So do I vote her? I would like to know who among my scum reads the vote is most likely to go on so I can go have a nap
so that's it? Quoted this one because it shows he did know about it unlike someone else in here said about him being modkilled before it happened.
That being said I don't think there's any incentive to lie on purpose as either mafia or town here? So I actually believe him that he forgot about it. There's just no point in doing this as either alignment if it was on purpose.
The thing Artanis mentioned that I went on with though I like. I don't think he'd post like that as town.
On March 19 2015 10:35 Holyflare wrote: maybe you should spend your time reading the game and figuring it out instead of wasting your time reading OTHER games, hmm toad?
dude I'm doing my thing even if you think I'm mafia for using the word "guyses"... I didn't read the game, I f5'd for "emo" to get a basic idea and that's it.... there's no way I'm actually reading old games
On March 19 2015 10:35 Holyflare wrote: maybe you should spend your time reading the game and figuring it out instead of wasting your time reading OTHER games, hmm toad?
I can get behind this sentiment and statement, I didn't think I could read hoa
However good to verify stuff in case so since toad will do what he will do, I am not gonna FoS him for this.
yes but how can he read that game without establishing any real basis on what we're even talking about when all he knows is a quoted post from eden which doesn't even quote what i quoted in my filter
I liked to at least check something people mentioned actually happened. That takes me 5 minutes and I don't bother with more than that because reading an entire game takes me forever. I was asked what I think about the SL emoticon thing, I said I have no idea because I don't know what people are takling about and I'd have to check that if you really want me to.
And I did spend 5 minutes on checking it. Not more or less... Does wasting 5 minutes make me scummy in your book or are you just still on about my first post and use whatever I post to push that along?
On March 19 2015 10:35 Holyflare wrote: maybe you should spend your time reading the game and figuring it out instead of wasting your time reading OTHER games, hmm toad?
I can get behind this sentiment and statement, I didn't think I could read hoa
However good to verify stuff in case so since toad will do what he will do, I am not gonna FoS him for this.
yes but how can he read that game without establishing any real basis on what we're even talking about when all he knows is a quoted post from eden which doesn't even quote what i quoted in my filter
I liked to at least check something people mentioned actually happened. That takes me 5 minutes and I don't bother with more than that because reading an entire game takes me forever. I was asked what I think about the SL emoticon thing, I said I have no idea because I don't know what people are takling about and I'd have to check that if you really want me to.
And I did spend 5 minutes on checking it. Not more or less... Does wasting 5 minutes make me scummy in your book or are you just still on about my first post and use whatever I post to push that along?
not reading the actual thread is scummy yes
how so? I only read people I know d1 all the time to get a decent read on them as early as possible and don't bother with other people or stuff about people I don't know.
I do that literally every game. I almost made Mocsta ragequit n1 last game because Rayn and I ignored him instead of giving him attention because I never read a single post he did. My sheet also had a bunch of people that were labeled as "never read a single post from them". So yeah, I didn't really bother to read anything about SL and just carried on.
You'll find that I read the thread carefully when it's about people I care and people I think I can read easily. Just look at my filter and the names I've mentioned so far.
On March 19 2015 10:55 Holyflare wrote: there's something wrong with you toad
I've been told so many times. I'm inclined to agree but I'm not mafia and I'd like to not die first cycle four times in a row pretty please.
Idk, maybe I am acting weird and getting killed on cycle 1 four times in a row makes me play differently because I don't want that to happen again so could be you're not even wrong about me being different. Sadly I know that I'm not mafia and would just be a mislynch again.
How about you let me do my thing and take a good look at Palmar instead. I give you a list of who's mafia by the end of d1/n1 and you can realize that I'm right about 95% on that list and you'll like me? Because this is actually getting pretty annoying after having dealt with exactly the same shit in Artanis games just that it was Palmar that kept on that vague "idk, I don't like Toads tone" all game long...
On March 19 2015 11:03 sicklucker wrote: Wait did eden fakeclaim miller? He did this last time we were mafia together and he didnt correctly read therules. But he brushed it off as a joke luckily. Did you slip again eden?
So? Seemed like a trick/joke to get some discussion for me... like the fact that FF is very likely to be town for it.
On February 19 2015 09:00 Eden1892 wrote: hi guys im a miller
This was edens first post in are mafia game together. In a previous game as town he did the same. Here he tried to copy it but failed. Town thought it was a joke but I didnt. In that game there was no miller or he was unaware . Alot of people brushed it off as a joke but I thought it was him trying to mimic his town play.
so wait... are you saying he did it three times now? Once as town and once as mafia before this?
How do you make the difference between him making it as town and him making it as mafia, like the game you were together with?
On March 19 2015 11:12 Superbia wrote: I'm just waiting for trfel to come out with his reads and sicklucker to give us his team mates at this point in time. Toad kind of feels town here but these >2 lines of text posts are so very hard to actually remember. :D
gg, I'm kind of known for making walls of texts when they're not needed. But I will now focus 100% of my mental capacity to make sure I don't post more than 2 lines per post.
On February 19 2015 09:00 Eden1892 wrote: hi guys im a miller
This was edens first post in are mafia game together. In a previous game as town he did the same. Here he tried to copy it but failed. Town thought it was a joke but I didnt. In that game there was no miller or he was unaware . Alot of people brushed it off as a joke but I thought it was him trying to mimic his town play.
so wait... are you saying he did it three times now? Once as town and once as mafia before this?
How do you make the difference between him making it as town and him making it as mafia, like the game you were together with?
Because the second time he did it was the game after his first one. When your mafia the first thing you think of is "what would I do as town here" Well he just did it as town so now that hes mafia he has to do the same thing right?
wat? Are you reading him as mafia because he's usually doing what you're talking about as mafia?
On March 19 2015 11:15 Superbia wrote: No j/k, you're not getting townread for that. Thanks though.
the joke was that I said I'm concentrating 100% to make it only 2 lines only to have it be 3 lines if a stupid "that is all" at the end
On February 19 2015 09:00 Eden1892 wrote: hi guys im a miller
This was edens first post in are mafia game together. In a previous game as town he did the same. Here he tried to copy it but failed. Town thought it was a joke but I didnt. In that game there was no miller or he was unaware . Alot of people brushed it off as a joke but I thought it was him trying to mimic his town play.
so wait... are you saying he did it three times now? Once as town and once as mafia before this?
How do you make the difference between him making it as town and him making it as mafia, like the game you were together with?
Because the second time he did it was the game after his first one. When your mafia the first thing you think of is "what would I do as town here" Well he just did it as town so now that hes mafia he has to do the same thing right?
wat? Are you reading him as mafia because he's usually doing what you're talking about as town?
On March 19 2015 11:17 sicklucker wrote: Well If I were mafia I already said slam would bus me. Dandred is weird for not tunneling me. Palmer, artanis and toad seem to be ignoring me
On March 19 2015 08:22 Palmar wrote: Also I think Toad tried to get elected as a mayor (in a no election game) last time too, so technically he's maybe imitating his town game.
I've basicly copy & pasted that post as I've done in my last.... 5 or so games in a row, both as mafia as well as town. So why don't you go ahead and explain a little more in detail about what you think rather than just killing me for "I don't know, I forgot what I don't like about toad but he's mafia" like you did last time?
You used colors and formatting and didn't type "guyses" last time. In hindsight that was far more townie than this.
last time I was sitting there waiting for the game. This time I'm boating and alt-tabbing while torping the shit out of people, so not exactly time for colors right now.
Last time you also tried to kill me for it. I can only assume that you're joking right now to get something started? There's no way you'd just repeat the same shit you did last time, mislynched and ragequitted afterwards, right?
Do any of our expert tonereaders agree with me that the tone in this post seems suspicious? I'm primarily looking at the grammar of the last sentence, it feels out of place compared to the rest of the post, and makes me wonder if Toadesstern felt rushed to post this. + Show Spoiler +
My tone reads are widely known to be miserable, and that is why I ask others.
isn't making rushed posts a townread because that means people don't really check what they're posting while mafias tend to doublecheck...
I even told you I'm posting while alt-tabbing because I was playing a game and you're asking if I'm rushed to post... I wouldn't post while alt-tabbing as mafia
On March 19 2015 11:38 sicklucker wrote: It reminds me of the ritoky/super bus I called out d1 in imperial. Where your just using it as an excuse to not be involved outside of it I dont know one of your other reads.
I didnt forget slam I just said im not 100% sure yet but clearly im never afraid to throw our early wild d1/d2 lists... In jack of all trade I called out basically the entire mafia team besides Ls
well, I think you're mafia if that helps you. Other than that... I am mostly going by poe so you won't really find me talking about my mafiareads while I do casually drop my townreads.
I call bullshit on this. You just made some shit up like you've been doing the last 3 hours
On March 19 2015 11:44 LightningStrike wrote: Also I noticing Toad seems much more serious early and idk why he so serious so quickly. He was mostly carefree as town at the opening stages from my experience as both a cohost and as a player who played with him (Hammertime as Cohost and JOAT when I played with him). Idk if this is enough to make him scum.
Like everyone's talking about how I'm playing different than I used to last games... no shit I got killed on first cycle like 4 times in a row and lost 4 games in a row now. Last game in particular I feel like I lost because I was trolling too much and didn't get enough out in time which ended in people not lynching Sandroba when he was 100% mafia on my sheet.
I needed to be a lot more serious in that game early on and we could have won
On March 19 2015 11:50 Toadesstern wrote: Like everyone's talking about how I'm playing different than I used to last games... no shit I got killed on first cycle like 4 times in a row and lost 4 games in a row now. Last game in particular I feel like I lost because I was trolling too much and didn't get enough out in time which ended in people not lynching Sandroba when he was 100% mafia on my sheet.
I needed to be a lot more serious in that game early on and we could have won
Ya you kinda got lynched because Palmars tunneling you that's the thing in Hammertime. Also I can understand a little bit on why you thought you need to be more serious after JOAT but still it just odd playing with a already serious you.
I mean if I get mafiaread for being different or more serious than I played in my last couple games there's nothing I can and will say about that other than my occasional banter about how that's not alignment indicative at all unless someone points out how different means scummy... because there's nothing I can say about it. I am playing differently (probably)
With that being said, if that's what it's like I'll just ignore everything in that direction from now on and just focus on getting my reads out a little bit earlier than last game and making sure I get them out properly explained. Got angry about Palmar pulling the same shit he did in Hammertime when he should know better and talked myself into a wolf... won't happen again and this is the last post about it.
On March 19 2015 11:55 Trfel wrote: Ok, I need to go to sleep.
Leaning town on rsoultin, Eden, and Alakaslam so far. Holyflare would also be a townlean, but I'm not sure what to make of his early interactions with Alakaslam, once I finish reading I'll probably ask a few questions to get this sorted out.
Sicklucker could very well be scum, but I have some reasons for doubt. Notably that he's been more active, and the point that Toadesstern brought up about one of the reasons he is being scumread actually being not alignment indicative. I need to look into sicklucker more tomorrow.
didn't you just scumread me? Why are you listening to me?
On March 19 2015 11:50 Toadesstern wrote: Like everyone's talking about how I'm playing different than I used to last games... no shit I got killed on first cycle like 4 times in a row and lost 4 games in a row now. Last game in particular I feel like I lost because I was trolling too much and didn't get enough out in time which ended in people not lynching Sandroba when he was 100% mafia on my sheet.
I needed to be a lot more serious in that game early on and we could have won
Ya you kinda got lynched because Palmars tunneling you that's the thing in Hammertime. Also I can understand a little bit on why you thought you need to be more serious after JOAT but still it just odd playing with a already serious you.
I mean if I get mafiaread for being different or more serious than I played in my last couple games there's nothing I can and will say about that other than my occasional banter about how that's not alignment indicative at all unless someone points out how different means scummy... because there's nothing I can say about it. I am playing differently (probably)
With that being said, if that's what it's like I'll just ignore everything in that direction from now on and just focus on getting my reads out a little bit earlier than last game and making sure I get them out properly explained. Got angry about Palmar pulling the same shit he did in Hammertime when he should know better and talked myself into a wolf... won't happen again and this is the last post about it.
Ya true about Palmar should know better on that but you seemed to taken it more personally o.o Are you still offended by Palmar's thing on you in Hammertime when you both were town?
from JoaT:
On March 03 2015 08:08 Toadesstern wrote: Fear not guyses for I have yet again rolled neither mafia nor Ninja. Thus I will proceed to kill all those mafias and not be mislynched d1 despite being called fucking confirmed town 24-36hours into the game.
Let me check real quick if Palmar is in the game
not really offended but annoyed. I thought he was town early on doing it on purpose to start some discussion or get some read from me based on how I'd react if he misreads me again like that, so yeah I got annoyed at the possible idea of having to deal with that again because he might make someone else agree with it... Right know I'm pretty sure he's mafia for keeping at it and knowing that it annoys me.
Can some of the guys who think my tone is so awful and completly different this game please go ahead and at least compare that post above with my first post in here instead of just believing all this about how my tone is completly different?
Props for nailing it on my seriousness though LS. Because yeah, that did change, just not the thing Palmar and HF mentioned.
On March 19 2015 11:38 sicklucker wrote: It reminds me of the ritoky/super bus I called out d1 in imperial. Where your just using it as an excuse to not be involved outside of it I dont know one of your other reads.
I didnt forget slam I just said im not 100% sure yet but clearly im never afraid to throw our early wild d1/d2 lists... In jack of all trade I called out basically the entire mafia team besides Ls
well, I think you're mafia if that helps you. Other than that... I am mostly going by poe so you won't really find me talking about my mafiareads while I do casually drop my townreads.
I call bullshit on this. You just made some shit up like you've been doing the last 3 hours
Written as [Pu-ri-n-tsu Eugen] ingame, charmingly called [Pu-ri-ke-tsu] instead which means something along the lines of... "firm ass" or "squishy ass because well... look at that 2nd pic
On March 19 2015 08:26 Damdred wrote: Actually slam has literally come into the game super serious and is throwing mud on HF? Slam is probable scum i'm parroting here a bit
Why does this make Alakaslam scum? I feel like his attack on Holyflare is more likely to come from town than scum, since attacking a high profile player early on seems like a poor play from scum.
Also, can someone explain to me why Alakaslam says that Holyflare's scumread of him is WIFOM? To me it seems like a meta read, not WIFOM.
Thanks!
noone knows what slam is doing. Thus we engage with him as much as possible talking about anything and everything to get as much data as possible. We talk about the weather, about anime, about warships disguised as anime girls just to get some idea about him and make an educated guess around d2/d3.
Anyone claiming he knows how to read Slam early on is lying~
On March 19 2015 08:26 Damdred wrote: Actually slam has literally come into the game super serious and is throwing mud on HF? Slam is probable scum i'm parroting here a bit
Why does this make Alakaslam scum? I feel like his attack on Holyflare is more likely to come from town than scum, since attacking a high profile player early on seems like a poor play from scum.
Also, can someone explain to me why Alakaslam says that Holyflare's scumread of him is WIFOM? To me it seems like a meta read, not WIFOM.
Thanks!
noone knows what slam is doing. Thus we engage with him as much as possible talking about anything and everything to get as much data as possible. We talk about the weather, about anime, about warships disguised as anime girls just to get some idea about him and make an educated guess around d2/d3.
Anyone claiming he knows how to read Slam early on is lying~
Rsoultin meta-read Alakaslam quite nicely in Down Under 2?
If you don't think it's possible to read Alakaslam, what do you think about Holyflare scumreading him so confidently after only a handful of posts?
Though Alakaslam is playing a different style this game, so...
On March 19 2015 10:03 Trfel wrote: Like Superbia said, it would really be nice to know how many mafia are in this game. Is it 4 or 5?
Edeeeeen I'm feeling a Truffle tunnel coming on >< like no shit almost as strong as the Student V read Truffle tunnel
am i wrong?
...i'm not actually sure that you're wrong why did he narrow it down to 4 or 5 if he didn't know how many mafia there are?
Why 4 or 5? Because those are (to the best of my knowledge) the only possibilities. Superbia's only answer was 7, and I don't think that is true.
The recent Titanic mafia was 17 players, with one third party, so 16 players. There were 4 mafia. I believe the standard large games (Carol of the Bells, Imperial Mafia, for example) have 5 mafia. Thus, I expect this game to have 4 or 5 mafia.
I'm asking because I feel that it is helpful to know how many mafia are in the game. Maybe you disagree, but I would like to know. And I don't have enough experience to really know if there would be 4 or 5 mafia, especially not compared to many of the players in this game.
Why the fuck did you feel the need to justify your question to this degree?
I really like his answer
What townie would feel the need to type out a whole post regarding this? Why even feel the need to justify it? Doesn't sit right with me.
bringing it up in the first place was stupid. The answer itself seems okay. You don't care about how it looks unless you're mafia, you just post. You can make a case that it's talking about things that don't matter but I think he'd be more likely to keep it short as a mafia in that case simply because he'd be much more aware of it in that case. In this case he doesn't give a fuck and just posts what's on his mind to explain it properly.
The Slam read is bullshit. Way too early to read him. Palmar is still mafia.
On March 19 2015 12:44 Trfel wrote: Sorry, I meant, what implications do you think this has on Holyflare's alignment? (and maybe if it says anything about those who voted Alakaslam with him)
not sure yet. People can be wrong, that includes HF saying he's mafia and me saying he's unreadable that early in the game. Could be anything so far. HF pointing out that I play different is somewhat townish because as people pointed out I indeed am playing differentish (I guess) and I don't think a lot of people would actually doublecheck that so he's forgiven for that unlike Palmar who's doing it on purpose.
On March 19 2015 12:44 Trfel wrote: Sorry, I meant, what implications do you think this has on Holyflare's alignment? (and maybe if it says anything about those who voted Alakaslam with him)
not sure yet. People can be wrong, that includes HF saying he's mafia and me saying he's unreadable that early in the game. Could be anything so far. HF pointing out that I play different is somewhat townish because as people pointed out I indeed am playing differentish (I guess) and I don't think a lot of people would actually doublecheck that so he's forgiven for that unlike Palmar who's doing it on purpose.
Toad, you've been on this a lot. What makes you think that it makes Palmar mafia?
Actually I'm back to lynching Palmar but good that you ask, I was about to explain it once more in more detail anyways:
Look at Hammertime and look at Palmars filter. I'm not asking you to read the game, just ctrl-f "Toad" in Palmars filter. Nothing else: Palmars Filter Please do it, that takes 5 minutes. No reading, just ctrl-f and going through some of the posts is already enough.
Realize that the reasoning for Palmar scumreading me in that game, when I was town was "idk, something's odd. I forgot what"
Realize my first post in JoaT was:
On March 03 2015 08:08 Toadesstern wrote: Fear not guyses for I have yet again rolled neither mafia nor Ninja. Thus I will proceed to kill all those mafias and not be mislynched d1 despite being called fucking confirmed town 24-36hours into the game.
Let me check real quick if Palmar is in the game
my first post in here was
On March 19 2015 08:18 Toadesstern wrote: sup guyses
For not for I have rolled town and I will lead us to glorious days of dancing under rainbows while lynching all of mafia. Gone are the days when I just showed that I'm blatantly town to everyone and lose nontheless because I trusted people that want to get attention.
For that I ask you to vote to become your mayor so we can slay all of mafia. The position of my personal sheriff is still open and I shall announce the guy or girl that gets that position soon!
compare them for a second
Look at Palmar and what he says about me this game and why I'm supposedly mafia:
On March 19 2015 09:02 Palmar wrote: I actually kinda sorta maybe believe my reasons for voting Toad. Both of the things I said are true.
#1 "guyses" is not a word any viable human being utters in a normal sentence. #2 He is half-assedly copying what was a much cooler play when he was town
On March 19 2015 08:22 Palmar wrote: Also I think Toad tried to get elected as a mayor (in a no election game) last time too, so technically he's maybe imitating his town game.
I've basicly copy & pasted that post as I've done in my last.... 5 or so games in a row, both as mafia as well as town. So why don't you go ahead and explain a little more in detail about what you think rather than just killing me for "I don't know, I forgot what I don't like about toad but he's mafia" like you did last time?
You used colors and formatting and didn't type "guyses" last time. In hindsight that was far more townie than this.
The chances of Palmar getting in here and saying that, without checking after what happened to him and me in Hammertime when we both were town are literally 0% if he is town and wasn't just trolling or trying to get reactions.
HF and everyone else whatever but Palmar would not just post that without at least giving one second of a thought about it and doublechecking after singlehandedly ruining a game because of a "Toad feels weird" read he did recently. No way. Not possible.
On March 19 2015 13:11 Trfel wrote: Toadesstern, Palmar wasn't in Jack of all Trades. Therefore I think it's reasonable to assume he didn't read it and didn't know that you opened in the same way.
I'm not sure if you are aware, but as of late, Palmar has become an incredibly lazy player in many of his games. I wouldn't expect him to check your game history for this.
he was completly crushed in hammertime after mislynching me d1 and singlehandedly ruining the game by doing exactly the same read he did this game. I do a post like that every game I played recently and the tone changes most of the times. Depends on wether I prepare it ahead of time or wether I'm posting while doing something else. And he ran into exactly the same mistake.
What I'm saying is that there's no way he'd repeat that mistake after that crushing defeat in hammertime without at least checking. That's the important point here. He got wrecked and doesn't care in the slightest bit while knowing everything he said last time about me was wrong already when he tried to read me that time
On March 19 2015 12:44 Trfel wrote: Sorry, I meant, what implications do you think this has on Holyflare's alignment? (and maybe if it says anything about those who voted Alakaslam with him)
not sure yet. People can be wrong, that includes HF saying he's mafia and me saying he's unreadable that early in the game. Could be anything so far. HF pointing out that I play different is somewhat townish because as people pointed out I indeed am playing differentish (I guess) and I don't think a lot of people would actually doublecheck that so he's forgiven for that unlike Palmar who's doing it on purpose.
Toad, you've been on this a lot. What makes you think that it makes Palmar mafia?
Actually I'm back to lynching Palmar but good that you ask, I was about to explain it once more in more detail anyways:
Look at Hammertime and look at Palmars filter. I'm not asking you to read the game, just ctrl-f "Toad" in Palmars filter. Nothing else: Palmars Filter Please do it, that takes 5 minutes. No reading, just ctrl-f and going through some of the posts is already enough.
Realize that the reasoning for Palmar scumreading me in that game, when I was town was "idk, something's odd. I forgot what"
Realize my first post in JoaT was:
On March 03 2015 08:08 Toadesstern wrote: Fear not guyses for I have yet again rolled neither mafia nor Ninja. Thus I will proceed to kill all those mafias and not be mislynched d1 despite being called fucking confirmed town 24-36hours into the game.
Let me check real quick if Palmar is in the game
my first post in here was
On March 19 2015 08:18 Toadesstern wrote: sup guyses
For not for I have rolled town and I will lead us to glorious days of dancing under rainbows while lynching all of mafia. Gone are the days when I just showed that I'm blatantly town to everyone and lose nontheless because I trusted people that want to get attention.
For that I ask you to vote to become your mayor so we can slay all of mafia. The position of my personal sheriff is still open and I shall announce the guy or girl that gets that position soon!
compare them for a second
Look at Palmar and what he says about me this game and why I'm supposedly mafia:
On March 19 2015 09:02 Palmar wrote: I actually kinda sorta maybe believe my reasons for voting Toad. Both of the things I said are true.
#1 "guyses" is not a word any viable human being utters in a normal sentence. #2 He is half-assedly copying what was a much cooler play when he was town
On March 19 2015 08:22 Palmar wrote: Also I think Toad tried to get elected as a mayor (in a no election game) last time too, so technically he's maybe imitating his town game.
I've basicly copy & pasted that post as I've done in my last.... 5 or so games in a row, both as mafia as well as town. So why don't you go ahead and explain a little more in detail about what you think rather than just killing me for "I don't know, I forgot what I don't like about toad but he's mafia" like you did last time?
You used colors and formatting and didn't type "guyses" last time. In hindsight that was far more townie than this.
The chances of Palmar getting in here and saying that, without checking after what happened to him and me in Hammertime when we both were town are literally 0% if he is town and wasn't just trolling or trying to get reactions.
HF and everyone else whatever but Palmar would not just post that without at least giving one second of a thought about it and doublechecking after singlehandedly ruining a game because of a "Toad feels weird" read he did recently. No way. Not possible.
Palmar is mafia ##vote Palmar
eh
i guess i could see you believing this but frankly, here's the deal
1. I don't think he's more likely to ping you as mafia, since you and he were not the only ones involved in that hammertime mislynch xP in fact, I'd say he's actually less likely to do so
2. Tonally the words you added this game make that post read way over the top. I don't know you from Adam ^^ so i can't toneread you on it, but there definitely is enough of a difference to merit someone saying something. Yes, even Palmar.
i think you may very well be town, but that this doesn't make Palmar mafia -shrugs-
about #1: That's exactly my point. He should not be so fast to just repeat the same mistake again. Yet he does while I'm pretty sure he should be smarter than this.
You get why I think he's mafia? He's not doing this because he thinks that way but because he wants to push me for the sake of pushing me while ignoring everything he should have learned from last game because he's mafia
On March 19 2015 20:55 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm reading Toad's filter now and the only thing I got out of it was that he thinks Palmar is scum, some interactions with SL and a lot of fluff particularly on Pg 2. What I don't really understand is why he let go of the Palmar scum theory in favour of chasing SL, then jumped back to Palmar without any real 'trigger' for it other than rsoultin asking him.
Problem with that is that he mentions he's back to voting for Palmar in response to that question before he expands, so he had already been thinking of switching back to Palmar before anyone triggered him. Palmar hadn't posted between the time Toad switched to SL and went back to Palmar.
Did you copy & paste that from someone out of Hammertime? Sure as hell feels like it... There were plenty of people who said exactly the same after Palmar ruined the thread... like how I'm fluffy and useless and they expected me to do more and I ended up getting lynched for it, which you know about as a host.
I let go of Palmar for a second because SL sounded really bad. If you look at my filter you even see me going back and forth about SL, how I mention that the emoticon read is bullshit because all it does is show that he's an unintential liar no matter of alignment. And if it was unintentional no matter of alignment it's not alignment indicative, it just shows that he's a liar. And a bad player. Seems like lynchbait to me and I apologize for going after him. I should have been smarter than to let myself get fooled by people saying he's stupid and therefore mafia even if it only lasted for about an hour.
I got back on Palmar because he's mafia and like I said, I lost the last games because I was too carefree as town and didn't manage to get the weight of my reads explained resulting in people not lynching mafia even after I got killed first cycle like 4 times in a row statint who's mafia and who's not. So yeah, making sure people read it.
IF I AM ALREADY DEAD AND YOU'RE READING THIS BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TROUGH MY FILTER AGAIN, MESSAGE FROM THE PAST: LYNCH PALMAR I'LL KICK YOU IN THE DICK POSTGAME IF YOU DON'T I think that should do the trick of making sure what I consider to be important after I flip
On March 19 2015 09:02 Palmar wrote: I actually kinda sorta maybe believe my reasons for voting Toad. Both of the things I said are true.
#1 "guyses" is not a word any viable human being utters in a normal sentence. #2 He is half-assedly copying what was a much cooler play when he was town
so we know the first thing is a lie from you because you didn't even bother to check a simple TL search for me, despite knowing that you did exactly the same bullshit the last game we played together in which you lynched me when we both were town. I'm starting to believe you're doing this on purpose and not just to start some discussion.
The second thing is the same bullshit you did without explaining anything just "kill toad" you did last game as well and again, I'd think you'd not repeat that especially after last game and having ragequitted there.
So why are you doing this Palmar?
24. Toadesstern As Queen Zeal, Was Lynched Cycle 5!
as mafia
gg
did you even bother going through the list? You see I'm using it in my towngames as well: first game is this, second game is JoaT that has Toadesstern in the OP. There are posts in there from outside of mafiagames, yet you only mention one where I was mafia and Palmar didn't even bother to check it at all? Why not come to the conclusion that I'm just using that word a lot no matter what? Even in irc when not playing mafia...
no i didn't bother because it was far too much effort and I don't really care enough to click past one game (+ i still thought joat was ongoing for some reason)
but this doesn't matter because what palmar said is true because it's exactly how I felt
funny how you mentioned how it's important to look at peoples reasoning and not just at the result just recently. But that doesn't matter if you like the results I take it?
Also I know, you're going to call me mafia for "ignoring" Rayn and going after my own read instead. Also I know, you're going to call me mafia for not going after my own reads enough. You've been doing that all game long now even if I showed you that everything Palmar and you said about me is just factually incorrect
On March 19 2015 11:50 Toadesstern wrote: Like everyone's talking about how I'm playing different than I used to last games... no shit I got killed on first cycle like 4 times in a row and lost 4 games in a row now. Last game in particular I feel like I lost because I was trolling too much and didn't get enough out in time which ended in people not lynching Sandroba when he was 100% mafia on my sheet.
I needed to be a lot more serious in that game early on and we could have won
Ya you kinda got lynched because Palmars tunneling you that's the thing in Hammertime. Also I can understand a little bit on why you thought you need to be more serious after JOAT but still it just odd playing with a already serious you.
I mean if I get mafiaread for being different or more serious than I played in my last couple games there's nothing I can and will say about that other than my occasional banter about how that's not alignment indicative at all unless someone points out how different means scummy... because there's nothing I can say about it. I am playing differently (probably)
With that being said, if that's what it's like I'll just ignore everything in that direction from now on and just focus on getting my reads out a little bit earlier than last game and making sure I get them out properly explained. Got angry about Palmar pulling the same shit he did in Hammertime when he should know better and talked myself into a wolf... won't happen again and this is the last post about it.
Ya true about Palmar should know better on that but you seemed to taken it more personally o.o Are you still offended by Palmar's thing on you in Hammertime when you both were town?
from JoaT:
On March 03 2015 08:08 Toadesstern wrote: Fear not guyses for I have yet again rolled neither mafia nor Ninja. Thus I will proceed to kill all those mafias and not be mislynched d1 despite being called fucking confirmed town 24-36hours into the game.
Let me check real quick if Palmar is in the game
not really offended but annoyed. I thought he was town early on doing it on purpose to start some discussion or get some read from me based on how I'd react if he misreads me again like that, so yeah I got annoyed at the possible idea of having to deal with that again because he might make someone else agree with it... Right know I'm pretty sure he's mafia for keeping at it and knowing that it annoys me.
Can some of the guys who think my tone is so awful and completly different this game please go ahead and at least compare that post above with my first post in here instead of just believing all this about how my tone is completly different?
Props for nailing it on my seriousness though LS. Because yeah, that did change, just not the thing Palmar and HF mentioned.
I dunno in the quote it's different in joat isn't it?
read his fucking reasoning. He said "Toad is mafia for using the word guyses and not formatting like he did last time" That's literally been his words. I quote:
On March 19 2015 09:02 Palmar wrote: I actually kinda sorta maybe believe my reasons for voting Toad. Both of the things I said are true.
#1 "guyses" is not a word any viable human being utters in a normal sentence. #2 He is half-assedly copying what was a much cooler play when he was town
On March 19 2015 11:50 Toadesstern wrote: Like everyone's talking about how I'm playing different than I used to last games... no shit I got killed on first cycle like 4 times in a row and lost 4 games in a row now. Last game in particular I feel like I lost because I was trolling too much and didn't get enough out in time which ended in people not lynching Sandroba when he was 100% mafia on my sheet.
I needed to be a lot more serious in that game early on and we could have won
Ya you kinda got lynched because Palmars tunneling you that's the thing in Hammertime. Also I can understand a little bit on why you thought you need to be more serious after JOAT but still it just odd playing with a already serious you.
I mean if I get mafiaread for being different or more serious than I played in my last couple games there's nothing I can and will say about that other than my occasional banter about how that's not alignment indicative at all unless someone points out how different means scummy... because there's nothing I can say about it. I am playing differently (probably)
With that being said, if that's what it's like I'll just ignore everything in that direction from now on and just focus on getting my reads out a little bit earlier than last game and making sure I get them out properly explained. Got angry about Palmar pulling the same shit he did in Hammertime when he should know better and talked myself into a wolf... won't happen again and this is the last post about it.
Ya true about Palmar should know better on that but you seemed to taken it more personally o.o Are you still offended by Palmar's thing on you in Hammertime when you both were town?
from JoaT:
On March 03 2015 08:08 Toadesstern wrote: Fear not guyses for I have yet again rolled neither mafia nor Ninja. Thus I will proceed to kill all those mafias and not be mislynched d1 despite being called fucking confirmed town 24-36hours into the game.
Let me check real quick if Palmar is in the game
not really offended but annoyed. I thought he was town early on doing it on purpose to start some discussion or get some read from me based on how I'd react if he misreads me again like that, so yeah I got annoyed at the possible idea of having to deal with that again because he might make someone else agree with it... Right know I'm pretty sure he's mafia for keeping at it and knowing that it annoys me.
Can some of the guys who think my tone is so awful and completly different this game please go ahead and at least compare that post above with my first post in here instead of just believing all this about how my tone is completly different?
Props for nailing it on my seriousness though LS. Because yeah, that did change, just not the thing Palmar and HF mentioned.
I dunno in the quote it's different in joat isn't it?
read his fucking reasoning. He said "Toad is mafia for using the word guyses and not formatting like he did last time" That's literally been his words. I quote:
On March 19 2015 09:02 Palmar wrote: I actually kinda sorta maybe believe my reasons for voting Toad. Both of the things I said are true.
#1 "guyses" is not a word any viable human being utters in a normal sentence. #2 He is half-assedly copying what was a much cooler play when he was town
now stop taking things out of context
um you are blind, maybe you should read the thread
go fuck off or tell me what you're getting at because what I quoted is exactly what he said. And there's absolutely no difference in that regard about the two posts
your comment on ls' list posts is buuuuuggging me since you've gotten much better at reading ls yourself...if i'm wrong, please show me
I'm amazing at reading LS. But I usually do it by finding some single instance of a thing he just wouldn't say or do as mafia.
fair enough ^^ i think i've seen you do that
so what specifically about toad's entrance makes it different than his other entrances?
It's weaker. I guess I was wrong that he wouldn't use the word guyses, apparently he's simply not a viable human being. But the point still stands that was a half-assed "vote me major" entrance compared to the last one in hammertime.
On March 20 2015 01:07 Holyflare wrote: it's worse because he actually changed the opening? and he doesn't even just quote it with colours and everything
On March 19 2015 11:50 Toadesstern wrote: Like everyone's talking about how I'm playing different than I used to last games... no shit I got killed on first cycle like 4 times in a row and lost 4 games in a row now. Last game in particular I feel like I lost because I was trolling too much and didn't get enough out in time which ended in people not lynching Sandroba when he was 100% mafia on my sheet.
I needed to be a lot more serious in that game early on and we could have won
Ya you kinda got lynched because Palmars tunneling you that's the thing in Hammertime. Also I can understand a little bit on why you thought you need to be more serious after JOAT but still it just odd playing with a already serious you.
I mean if I get mafiaread for being different or more serious than I played in my last couple games there's nothing I can and will say about that other than my occasional banter about how that's not alignment indicative at all unless someone points out how different means scummy... because there's nothing I can say about it. I am playing differently (probably)
With that being said, if that's what it's like I'll just ignore everything in that direction from now on and just focus on getting my reads out a little bit earlier than last game and making sure I get them out properly explained. Got angry about Palmar pulling the same shit he did in Hammertime when he should know better and talked myself into a wolf... won't happen again and this is the last post about it.
Ya true about Palmar should know better on that but you seemed to taken it more personally o.o Are you still offended by Palmar's thing on you in Hammertime when you both were town?
from JoaT:
On March 03 2015 08:08 Toadesstern wrote: Fear not guyses for I have yet again rolled neither mafia nor Ninja. Thus I will proceed to kill all those mafias and not be mislynched d1 despite being called fucking confirmed town 24-36hours into the game.
Let me check real quick if Palmar is in the game
not really offended but annoyed. I thought he was town early on doing it on purpose to start some discussion or get some read from me based on how I'd react if he misreads me again like that, so yeah I got annoyed at the possible idea of having to deal with that again because he might make someone else agree with it... Right know I'm pretty sure he's mafia for keeping at it and knowing that it annoys me.
Can some of the guys who think my tone is so awful and completly different this game please go ahead and at least compare that post above with my first post in here instead of just believing all this about how my tone is completly different?
Props for nailing it on my seriousness though LS. Because yeah, that did change, just not the thing Palmar and HF mentioned.
I dunno in the quote it's different in joat isn't it?
there's no coloring in the Joat one. Literally no coloring at all. Also no formatting. Also I change them everytime. I never copy & paste those posts but do them roughly the same but I'm sure you know that because I have about 15 posts like that, that all read like that and they're all slightly different because I copy&pasted none other than the general structure of it.
On March 20 2015 01:32 Palmar wrote: @toad do you think Artanis is mafia for that post you quoted?
idk, he said he doesn't read games he's hosting... which is a convenient excuse to copy&paste the reasoning of people that agreed with you in Hammertime to lynch town!Toad
Could be a set-up to push his vote onto me and not let me defend myself based on "you literally hosted the game that ended after the 2nd cycle because Palmar + 3 other people lynched me for exactly what you just said about me" because duh... he's not reading his own games
He hasn't really done a lot that caught my eye and he feels nothing like the carefree guy he usually is. I'd say chances are it's Palmar+Artanis or Palmar+HF. Probably Palmar+Artanis because HF is actually doing stuff, even if it's incredibly annoying, stupid stuff.
your comment on ls' list posts is buuuuuggging me since you've gotten much better at reading ls yourself...if i'm wrong, please show me
I'm amazing at reading LS. But I usually do it by finding some single instance of a thing he just wouldn't say or do as mafia.
fair enough ^^ i think i've seen you do that
so what specifically about toad's entrance makes it different than his other entrances?
It's weaker. I guess I was wrong that he wouldn't use the word guyses, apparently he's simply not a viable human being. But the point still stands that was a half-assed "vote me major" entrance compared to the last one in hammertime.
On March 20 2015 01:07 Holyflare wrote: it's worse because he actually changed the opening? and he doesn't even just quote it with colours and everything
On March 20 2015 01:23 Holyflare wrote:
On March 19 2015 12:20 Toadesstern wrote:
On March 19 2015 12:10 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 19 2015 12:00 Toadesstern wrote:
On March 19 2015 11:52 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 19 2015 11:50 Toadesstern wrote: Like everyone's talking about how I'm playing different than I used to last games... no shit I got killed on first cycle like 4 times in a row and lost 4 games in a row now. Last game in particular I feel like I lost because I was trolling too much and didn't get enough out in time which ended in people not lynching Sandroba when he was 100% mafia on my sheet.
I needed to be a lot more serious in that game early on and we could have won
Ya you kinda got lynched because Palmars tunneling you that's the thing in Hammertime. Also I can understand a little bit on why you thought you need to be more serious after JOAT but still it just odd playing with a already serious you.
I mean if I get mafiaread for being different or more serious than I played in my last couple games there's nothing I can and will say about that other than my occasional banter about how that's not alignment indicative at all unless someone points out how different means scummy... because there's nothing I can say about it. I am playing differently (probably)
With that being said, if that's what it's like I'll just ignore everything in that direction from now on and just focus on getting my reads out a little bit earlier than last game and making sure I get them out properly explained. Got angry about Palmar pulling the same shit he did in Hammertime when he should know better and talked myself into a wolf... won't happen again and this is the last post about it.
Ya true about Palmar should know better on that but you seemed to taken it more personally o.o Are you still offended by Palmar's thing on you in Hammertime when you both were town?
from JoaT:
On March 03 2015 08:08 Toadesstern wrote: Fear not guyses for I have yet again rolled neither mafia nor Ninja. Thus I will proceed to kill all those mafias and not be mislynched d1 despite being called fucking confirmed town 24-36hours into the game.
Let me check real quick if Palmar is in the game
not really offended but annoyed. I thought he was town early on doing it on purpose to start some discussion or get some read from me based on how I'd react if he misreads me again like that, so yeah I got annoyed at the possible idea of having to deal with that again because he might make someone else agree with it... Right know I'm pretty sure he's mafia for keeping at it and knowing that it annoys me.
Can some of the guys who think my tone is so awful and completly different this game please go ahead and at least compare that post above with my first post in here instead of just believing all this about how my tone is completly different?
Props for nailing it on my seriousness though LS. Because yeah, that did change, just not the thing Palmar and HF mentioned.
I dunno in the quote it's different in joat isn't it?
there's no coloring in the Joat one. Literally no coloring at all. Also no formatting. Also I change them everytime. I never copy & paste those posts but do them roughly the same but I'm sure you know that because I have about 15 posts like that, that all read like that and they're all slightly different because I copy&pasted none other than the general structure of it.
look dude
i just don't really care to be honest, your post seemed off and I thought it was too forced but then you said it was copy and pasted so then it meant nothing but now you're just wasting time all game on palmar just like you did in cultured to geript and it's bugging me so stop it and move on, we know you scum read palmar now, thanks for the information
so stop fucking bringing up the stupid coloring or formating that I've already shown to be bullshit. I was doing just fine when you left the thread yesterday and did my thing reading up on LS & Palmar and now you're just keeping at it. I know you don't like my Palmar read but that doesn't mean I'm not doing anything. I'm not going to keep on harping about it. I made my point and that's why I made that one big post with the [*big] tags in it.
Next guy to look into is Artanis followed up by you if you for just a second stop bugging me.
I'm not fucking looking at rayn first. If I do that you just call me mafia based on not going after my own reads and just looking&repeating what other people already mentioned no matter what I post.
I'm looking at Artanis first, you're second. You want me to scumhunt so stop telling me what to do and let me do and look at it in a 12 hours.
okay here's the thing about Artanis, to get this straight with context I'll explain the context for you guys as well!
It is 24:00 CET, the game begings. Toad is currently playing boat-moba thus only posting inbetween and didn't even realize the game started. Thus the rushed inbetween posts while alt-tabbing in games. About 01:00 CET, my internet crashes and I am afk for about... idk at least an hour About 02:00 CET, I'm back and actually doing stuff. You might not agree with things I did like my Palmar read but I did some stuff. Enough for people to figure out that I don't like Palmar and want him lynched at least. This continues until around 05:30 CET. Argueably I got distracted everytime HF got in the thread but I felt like I was actually getting my thoughts out at least when I made it pretty obvious that I don't want to lean back another game as townie and just lose that way.
So that's the basic background, Artanis gets in the thread and posts this:
On March 19 2015 20:55 Artanis[Xp] wrote: 1) I'm reading Toad's filter now and the only thing I got out of it was that he thinks Palmar is scum, some interactions with SL 2) and a lot of fluff particularly on Pg 2. 3) What I don't really understand is why he let go of the Palmar scum theory in favour of chasing SL, then jumped back to Palmar without any real 'trigger' for it other than rsoultin asking him.
Problem with that is that he mentions he's back to voting for Palmar in response to that question before he expands, so he had already been thinking of switching back to Palmar before anyone triggered him. Palmar hadn't posted between the time Toad switched to SL and went back to Palmar.
3 important things here:
1) Hypocrisy. He even mentioned someone else being a hypocrite towards him and fos'es me for only getting 1 mafiaread during the time between... 00:00AM and 05:30AM? He knows I'm from europe, he knows I've got to sleep, heck I even wrote it in the thread and he says he doesn't know enough about my reads despite him not giving out a single hard read up to that point. Check his filter up to that point and you won't find anything and yet he criticizes me for that?
2) He knows me. Everyone on here that knows me knows that I'm the boxxy of TL-mafia. I post a lot. I post a lot of big walls that noone reads. Chances are you, my dear non-reader, aren't actually reading this very sentence because you already gave up on it because it's too long and fully. That's what I do. No matter of alignment. Every single game. Sorry I just can't help it but he knows that I do it and he knows that I do it no matter of alignment. There's a big famous game that I had with VE + gom... whatever his name was that had like 200pages by the end of d2 because we're all very talkactive. He knows about that shit. He should not bring up my fluffyness no matter how cute I am.
3) I never gave up on Palmar. I think I made it plenty clear that I want him lynched and if I ever get the chance to lynch him I'm going to grab that chance and kick him out of this game. So HF reads me mafia for focussing too much on Palmar, Artanis reads me mafia for not focusing enough on Palmar and discussing other people even if I think Palmar is 99% confirmed mafia at this point. Great.
Did anyone here really think I let go of my Palmar read in general? I thought it was pretty damn obvious that I was just putting it aside for a sec to discuss some other stuff at that time, in this case SL.
Feels like he's pushing me because he wants to push me rather than actually being convinced I'm mafia. He directly goes against what HF thinks and comes to the same conclusion as HF with the opposite interpretation with his #3. He knows better than to use #2 and he himself is worse than me for what he's accusing me about with his #1 at that point in time.
The one thing Artanis has going for himself is that he apparently thinks I'm mafia. Mafias don't tend to mafiaread me because I post too big walloftexts and they're too lazy to actually read them so they'll nullread me or townread me because "wow, much text, very town" But the reasoning is really bad here.
Still want to lynch Palmar. I'd be up for Artanis though.
On March 20 2015 02:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: hey there are actually a couple of really good points there Toad. you go to townpile.
I've got no idea if I'm supposed to laugh, cry or whatever else at this moment because I have no idea if that was sacrasmn or not with this being in there:
On March 20 2015 02:20 Toadesstern wrote: [...] The one thing Artanis has going for himself is that he apparently thinks I'm mafia. Mafias don't tend to mafiaread me because I post too big walloftexts and they're too lazy to actually read them so they'll nullread me or townread me because "wow, much text, very town" But the reasoning is really bad here.
Still want to lynch Palmar. I'd be up for Artanis though.
On March 20 2015 02:44 Damdred wrote: Toad have I ever told you that I love your traps?
Anyway I actually think you might have a stronger case for artanis in there than you do for Palmar at this point.
nah my case on Palmar is a crapton better. Like even if you argue that he was just making fun you're arguing that he was trying to get me pissed on purpose to have some fun and derail the thread. That's mafiaagenda if there ever was one. And if not he's mafia because of my thread
On March 20 2015 02:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: hey there are actually a couple of really good points there Toad. you go to townpile.
I've got no idea if I'm supposed to laugh, cry or whatever else at this moment because I have no idea if that was sacrasmn or not with this being in there:
On March 20 2015 02:20 Toadesstern wrote: [...] The one thing Artanis has going for himself is that he apparently thinks I'm mafia. Mafias don't tend to mafiaread me because I post too big walloftexts and they're too lazy to actually read them so they'll nullread me or townread me because "wow, much text, very town" But the reasoning is really bad here.
Still want to lynch Palmar. I'd be up for Artanis though.
I meant i find it odd Holyflare and Artanis say you are mafia for completely opposite reasons and there is no confrontation between them for it. Like i am not sure if it's important but it's a good point i find interesting.
Also you focusing onto other stuff momentarily is a towntell.
I honestly find it more daming for HF atm because he ended up doing a lot of "you're mafia so whatever you say shows that you're mafia" like that entire formating & color thing but he's apparently town... so yeah chances are Artanis was trying to agree and parot along while not realising that he used the exact opposite of what HF was getting at only to come to the same conclusion?
On March 20 2015 02:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: hey there are actually a couple of really good points there Toad. you go to townpile.
I've got no idea if I'm supposed to laugh, cry or whatever else at this moment because I have no idea if that was sacrasmn or not with this being in there:
On March 20 2015 02:20 Toadesstern wrote: [...] The one thing Artanis has going for himself is that he apparently thinks I'm mafia. Mafias don't tend to mafiaread me because I post too big walloftexts and they're too lazy to actually read them so they'll nullread me or townread me because "wow, much text, very town" But the reasoning is really bad here.
Still want to lynch Palmar. I'd be up for Artanis though.
I meant i find it odd Holyflare and Artanis say you are mafia for completely opposite reasons and there is no confrontation between them for it. Like i am not sure if it's important but it's a good point i find interesting.
Also you focusing onto other stuff momentarily is a towntell.
then you just aren't reading the thread at all because i most definitely already called him potential mafia
you just said you have different problems with Artanis though, implying what I mentioned about him disagreeing with you yet comming to the same conclusion isn't one of them?
Well whatever, I'm more likely to get Palmar lynched than HF and I don't think I want HF lynched atm so moving on. I'd like to hear those different reasons that are totally not the ones I mentioned just now though
On March 20 2015 02:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: Here are the things why you SHOULD remember what i have said in the thread: (1) you literally claim you have read my posts (2) my reads apparently align with yours (3) you read me scum
all of those are reasons you SHOULD remember what i have said and at least try to figure out why i say what i do yet you claim the opposite.
Literally if you are sure i'm scum you don't need to make posts like this to convince me not to vote you.
If i'm scum you do not need to break down whats wrong with my scum read TO ME.
If i'm scum to you, this makes no sense to me why you post talking to me as such instead of pushing me to hell and back to get lynched.
I don't think that's particularly bad. Last game I played with rayn he had a 100% certain mafiaread d1 and that 100% certain mafiaread ended up flipping town. Chances are he's learning?
You know, unlike Palmar and why he's got to be mafia this game.
man mutsuki just sucks... minekaze was a crapton more fun to play.
Voting Artanis because I think I'm more likely to get him lynched than Palmar. No real change of mind, just that.
this does not in any way or form mean I am backing down from my Palmar-read or think Artanis is more scummy than Palmar. I think they're both scummy, Palmar a lot more so than Artanis but if I can't get Palmar I'll take Artanis instead. Don't even dare to call me backpaddling on my Palmar-read. I. Am. Not. In. The. Slightest.
On March 20 2015 02:20 Toadesstern wrote: okay here's the thing about Artanis, to get this straight with context I'll explain the context for you guys as well!
It is 24:00 CET, the game begings. Toad is currently playing boat-moba thus only posting inbetween and didn't even realize the game started. Thus the rushed inbetween posts while alt-tabbing in games. About 01:00 CET, my internet crashes and I am afk for about... idk at least an hour About 02:00 CET, I'm back and actually doing stuff. You might not agree with things I did like my Palmar read but I did some stuff. Enough for people to figure out that I don't like Palmar and want him lynched at least. This continues until around 05:30 CET. Argueably I got distracted everytime HF got in the thread but I felt like I was actually getting my thoughts out at least when I made it pretty obvious that I don't want to lean back another game as townie and just lose that way.
So that's the basic background, Artanis gets in the thread and posts this:
On March 19 2015 20:55 Artanis[Xp] wrote: 1) I'm reading Toad's filter now and the only thing I got out of it was that he thinks Palmar is scum, some interactions with SL 2) and a lot of fluff particularly on Pg 2. 3) What I don't really understand is why he let go of the Palmar scum theory in favour of chasing SL, then jumped back to Palmar without any real 'trigger' for it other than rsoultin asking him.
Problem with that is that he mentions he's back to voting for Palmar in response to that question before he expands, so he had already been thinking of switching back to Palmar before anyone triggered him. Palmar hadn't posted between the time Toad switched to SL and went back to Palmar.
3 important things here:
1) Hypocrisy. He even mentioned someone else being a hypocrite towards him and fos'es me for only getting 1 mafiaread during the time between... 00:00AM and 05:30AM? He knows I'm from europe, he knows I've got to sleep, heck I even wrote it in the thread and he says he doesn't know enough about my reads despite him not giving out a single hard read up to that point. Check his filter up to that point and you won't find anything and yet he criticizes me for that?
False, I went after Alakaslam, SL, and called out Superbia in that time.
2) He knows me. Everyone on here that knows me knows that I'm the boxxy of TL-mafia. I post a lot. I post a lot of big walls that noone reads. Chances are you, my dear non-reader, aren't actually reading this very sentence because you already gave up on it because it's too long and fully. That's what I do. No matter of alignment. Every single game. Sorry I just can't help it but he knows that I do it and he knows that I do it no matter of alignment. There's a big famous game that I had with VE + gom... whatever his name was that had like 200pages by the end of d2 because we're all very talkactive. He knows about that shit. He should not bring up my fluffyness no matter how cute I am.
Actually, I don't know you that well though I've always found you to be a good addition to games I've hosted as you generally had a positive vibe, one which I'm kind of missing this game so far. Not alignment indicative though as you've had it as both alignments, but a shame. Fluffyness is relevant when it's the majority of your filter.
3) I never gave up on Palmar. I think I made it plenty clear that I want him lynched and if I ever get the chance to lynch him I'm going to grab that chance and kick him out of this game. So HF reads me mafia for focussing too much on Palmar, Artanis reads me mafia for not focusing enough on Palmar and discussing other people even if I think Palmar is 99% confirmed mafia at this point. Great.
My point was that you went back to Palmar without anything initiating it. You just randomly decided "hey let's go back to Palmar" without anything seemingly triggering you. Like I said in my initial post, the way you replied to rso insinuated that you were already in the process of going back to him without him posting in the meantime.
Did anyone here really think I let go of my Palmar read in general? I thought it was pretty damn obvious that I was just putting it aside for a sec to discuss some other stuff at that time, in this case SL.
Feels like he's pushing me because he wants to push me rather than actually being convinced I'm mafia. He directly goes against what HF thinks and comes to the same conclusion as HF with the opposite interpretation with his #3. He knows better than to use #2 and he himself is worse than me for what he's accusing me about with his #1 at that point in time.
I didn't read HF's suspicions on you. I was triggered to read your filter by remembering that Palmar suspected you, and the reason I brought the whole thing up was because Palmar and Rayn were in a shitfight that wasn't going anywhere and I wanted to redirect their attention and get reads on a broader field.
you mentioned them, you never ended up really calling them mafia.
In fact I'm the only mafia in your list you posted later on the the read on them has got to be a lot weaker than the one on me, right?
that's literally the first time you comment on some hard reads of yours:
On March 19 2015 21:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Leaning Town Trfel - Questioned # of mafia after Superbia already did and got a nasty response from it. Doesn't seem to be afraid of any backlash, posting carefree. LightningStrike - See above. Would expect him to have more trouble posting as mafia. Fecalfeast - Brought up point against SL, didn't try to bury him ExO_ - Made a stupid question, got called out on it by a lot of people, still responded and came to a reasonable for him conclusion.
Cautiously leaning town rsoultin - Rayn and HF said so, haven't really looked into her further. Alakaslam - Genuinely seems to want to change his meta in contrast to last time he rolled scum where he just admitted it was his scum meta. Holyflare & Damdred - Similar thoughts a few times throughout the game, such as with ExO_ and Alakaslam.
Null Everyone not on other lists.
Leaning Mafia Toadesstern - Went after Palmar, then lots of fluff, then went after SL, then suddenly went back to Palmar without Palmar posting in between. Hasn't been as productive as Town!Toad normally is.
##Vote Toadesstern
and I'm the only one in your mafiareads while you go at me for only being on Palmar. So it's fine for you to only have one read but it's not fine for me to only have one? I mentioned a bunch of people without putting them in the "KILL IT WITH FIRE" treshhold either.
On March 20 2015 03:46 Toadesstern wrote: that's literally the first time you comment on some hard reads of yours:
On March 19 2015 21:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Leaning Town Trfel - Questioned # of mafia after Superbia already did and got a nasty response from it. Doesn't seem to be afraid of any backlash, posting carefree. LightningStrike - See above. Would expect him to have more trouble posting as mafia. Fecalfeast - Brought up point against SL, didn't try to bury him ExO_ - Made a stupid question, got called out on it by a lot of people, still responded and came to a reasonable for him conclusion.
Cautiously leaning town rsoultin - Rayn and HF said so, haven't really looked into her further. Alakaslam - Genuinely seems to want to change his meta in contrast to last time he rolled scum where he just admitted it was his scum meta. Holyflare & Damdred - Similar thoughts a few times throughout the game, such as with ExO_ and Alakaslam.
Null Everyone not on other lists.
Leaning Mafia Toadesstern - Went after Palmar, then lots of fluff, then went after SL, then suddenly went back to Palmar without Palmar posting in between. Hasn't been as productive as Town!Toad normally is.
##Vote Toadesstern
and I'm the only one in your mafiareads while you go at me for only being on Palmar. So it's fine for you to only have one read but it's not fine for me to only have one? I mentioned a bunch of people without putting them in the "KILL IT WITH FIRE" treshhold either.
I didn't go after you for only being on Palmar. That's not my argument at all, what I'm saying is that for no reason at all you switched back from SL to Palmar when he had posted nothing in the meantime. THAT'S what I'm saying.
so show me the post that made you think I thought Palmar was a bad lynch. Because I'm pretty sure I never backed down on that in the first place.
On March 20 2015 03:46 Toadesstern wrote: that's literally the first time you comment on some hard reads of yours:
On March 19 2015 21:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Leaning Town Trfel - Questioned # of mafia after Superbia already did and got a nasty response from it. Doesn't seem to be afraid of any backlash, posting carefree. LightningStrike - See above. Would expect him to have more trouble posting as mafia. Fecalfeast - Brought up point against SL, didn't try to bury him ExO_ - Made a stupid question, got called out on it by a lot of people, still responded and came to a reasonable for him conclusion.
Cautiously leaning town rsoultin - Rayn and HF said so, haven't really looked into her further. Alakaslam - Genuinely seems to want to change his meta in contrast to last time he rolled scum where he just admitted it was his scum meta. Holyflare & Damdred - Similar thoughts a few times throughout the game, such as with ExO_ and Alakaslam.
Null Everyone not on other lists.
Leaning Mafia Toadesstern - Went after Palmar, then lots of fluff, then went after SL, then suddenly went back to Palmar without Palmar posting in between. Hasn't been as productive as Town!Toad normally is.
##Vote Toadesstern
and I'm the only one in your mafiareads while you go at me for only being on Palmar. So it's fine for you to only have one read but it's not fine for me to only have one? I mentioned a bunch of people without putting them in the "KILL IT WITH FIRE" treshhold either.
I didn't go after you for only being on Palmar. That's not my argument at all, what I'm saying is that for no reason at all you switched back from SL to Palmar when he had posted nothing in the meantime. THAT'S what I'm saying.
so show me the post that made you think I thought Palmar was a bad lynch. Because I'm pretty sure I never backed down on that in the first place.
Again you're changing my argument to something I never said. I never said you think Palmar is a bad lynch. This is my argument:
you realize that even if you say Palmar wasn't posting there I could be going through peoples filters? In fact I had half of the post finished when *whoever it was that asked about Palmar* asked about Palmar and included that because of an F5? I could have talked with SL and thought he's more a lynchbait than anything else, like I mentioned, thus going back to Palmar? I could have just thought "fuck it, I lost four games in a row by making sure everyone knows I'm town early on, got killed cycle-1 four times in a row without having enough influence on the game because I sat back as confirmed townie not pushing my reads hard enough" ?
Why is none of that a possibility for you? It's not like I'm flip flopping from Palmar to LS to some guy I never mentioned before. I went from Palmar to LS back to Palmar. Stuff happens.
On March 20 2015 03:46 Toadesstern wrote: that's literally the first time you comment on some hard reads of yours:
On March 19 2015 21:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Leaning Town Trfel - Questioned # of mafia after Superbia already did and got a nasty response from it. Doesn't seem to be afraid of any backlash, posting carefree. LightningStrike - See above. Would expect him to have more trouble posting as mafia. Fecalfeast - Brought up point against SL, didn't try to bury him ExO_ - Made a stupid question, got called out on it by a lot of people, still responded and came to a reasonable for him conclusion.
Cautiously leaning town rsoultin - Rayn and HF said so, haven't really looked into her further. Alakaslam - Genuinely seems to want to change his meta in contrast to last time he rolled scum where he just admitted it was his scum meta. Holyflare & Damdred - Similar thoughts a few times throughout the game, such as with ExO_ and Alakaslam.
Null Everyone not on other lists.
Leaning Mafia Toadesstern - Went after Palmar, then lots of fluff, then went after SL, then suddenly went back to Palmar without Palmar posting in between. Hasn't been as productive as Town!Toad normally is.
##Vote Toadesstern
and I'm the only one in your mafiareads while you go at me for only being on Palmar. So it's fine for you to only have one read but it's not fine for me to only have one? I mentioned a bunch of people without putting them in the "KILL IT WITH FIRE" treshhold either.
I didn't go after you for only being on Palmar. That's not my argument at all, what I'm saying is that for no reason at all you switched back from SL to Palmar when he had posted nothing in the meantime. THAT'S what I'm saying.
so show me the post that made you think I thought Palmar was a bad lynch. Because I'm pretty sure I never backed down on that in the first place.
Again you're changing my argument to something I never said. I never said you think Palmar is a bad lynch. This is my argument:
you realize that even if you say Palmar wasn't posting there I could be going through peoples filters? In fact I had half of the post finished when *whoever it was that asked about Palmar* asked about Palmar and included that because of an F5? I could have talked with SL and thought he's more a lynchbait than anything else, like I mentioned, thus going back to Palmar? I could have just thought "fuck it, I lost four games in a row by making sure everyone knows I'm town early on, got killed cycle-1 four times in a row without having enough influence on the game because I sat back as confirmed townie not pushing my reads hard enough" ?
Why is none of that a possibility for you? It's not like I'm flip flopping from Palmar to LS to some guy I never mentioned before. I went from Palmar to LS back to Palmar. Stuff happens.
Of course all of that is a possibility. I never said you were certain scum. I simply felt the timing was suspicious and seemingly unprovoked, but the play you've shown since coming back is satisfactory.
##Unvote
was it my case on Palmar or my case on you that was satisfactory? Or my #DETERMINED way of talking when I was raging at HF, because I could probably fake that as mafia?
If you want to lynch Palmar we can be friends. He hasn't really done anything other than throw shit at me and make me rage on purpose if I am to believe that he did that on purpose like some people here seem to imply.
On March 20 2015 01:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: Damdred is mafia because his scumreads are: 1) a guy he has had a read on before he can have a read on them, apparently now he agrees with what guy another person is scummy but still this guy has said nothing in value 2) another guy who scumread a third guy for the same reasons he did
##vote Damdred
Isn't this the thing that Palmar pointed out earlier?
I want to say it's gotten better because of your critical thinking about your points on me and realizing that I'm town but I fear that you're just pandering towards me. Need some time and food to make up my mind.
Like, I'm pretty sure there's got to be mafia among all those "meh toad reads weird" people trying to start that (Palmar) and the people just agreeing for no particular reason. At the same time I'm apparently looking better now and everyone's backing up so it's somewhat likely mafia is trying to get off that train as well. Idk it's pretty confusing atm.
VE said he thinks his own play was short but sweet but I actually can't even remember anything he said so far.
So after successfully summoning VE he just disappears to do nothing and only look worse in terms of lurking?... Jokes on you VE, you're mafia when you look townish and town when you look mafiaish. So you're fine I guess.
I'm going to get a crapton of shit for this but that's how you read VE and you guys are just to scared to say it out loud. Deal with it.
last post before going to bed after watching something with a friend (as you might have figured out by my post in wrong thread lol):
So the most important thing for me today is actually that thing from Artanis and HF that completly contradicts itself while both come to the same conclusion. You could say the same about some stuff Palmar wrote if you're willing to take him seriously. This to me shows that there clearly was mafia pushing me earlier in the day for the sake of pushing me or at least fosing me just to fit in. We should be looking into that direction tomorrow and see you then.
Holy crap 25 pages I have to read... so anyways here's where I'm at for the day withouth reading that yet but having thought about what I already know:
Starting with obvious things that don't need that much explanation because duh, it's in my filter: Palmar is mafia
Artanis I think has a decent chance to flip mafia. He has done a lot more though ever since he got some heat. Have not yet figured out if him going everywhere and voting whatever comes in front of his visor is particularly townish or scummy yet.
Rayn just plain does nothing. Okay that's an exaggeration but I've been sitting here for 24 hours and more, trying to not mention him because putting pressure on him is the wrong way to figure out his alignment. He just gets angry and the game becomes unplayable as he throws a tantrum. That being said I tried not to do that and from what I've seen he wasn't bullied by other people either, the closest thing being HF mentioning him a lot but even in that case it felt like HF was almost ignoring him so he had all the space he can ask for. And still I don't see anything a town!Rayn would do here. I'd expect him to be kicking and screaming out of his lungs having found at least one 100% mafia by now and how we all need to do what he wants and we're all terrible for not realizing that his scumread is 100% confirmed. I just don't see it. Yes he apparently has some reads but the kick is missing.
on to people I havn't realy read and it's more of a gut-read:
SL I still feel very strongly about just being a lynchbait. I don't even have a read on him, he's pretty much null for me but I just don't see this emoticon thing being a thing. The reason for which he got a target early on was stupid and I think he among myself was the easy (easier) place to dump votes onto for mafia or start a mislynch. I'm not going to lynch that unless someone shows me something big that happened in the last 25 pages about him.
Damdred/Vivax/LS, Damdred actually feels decent in my books even though he's feeling under the radar. Not sure why, but I like the way he's posting with not the slightest care&fear in the world. Would not want to lynch that today. Vivax feels very odd. Same slightly under the radar feel despite actually having a decent filter (which is a bad sign) but he at the same time just doesn't feel right like damdred does. If we're going for a lurker / under the radar. LS seems very political correct. I mostly remember him for talking about how he co-hosted or hosted one of the games I played in (either hammer or Joat I guess) and explaining how my stance might make sense. Easy stuff to talk about, add that up with actually thinking I'm town (apparently?) and I get the shivers. Like I said, I get the feeling a lot of mafias just tend to give me townreads or nullreads based on my lenghty posts and it didn't feel like with other people like Eden who actually read my posts.
So with that being said I'd be up for lynching Palmar / Artanis+Rayn / Vivax+LS right now. Maybe some of the other guys that I havn't bothered looking into yet. Can't remember a thing Onegu or breshke have said for that matter. But that's my stance for now and I'll start reading o/
do I actually have to respond to Palmar and Rayn here in fears of the bullshit sticking somewhere or can I keep on reading the 25 pages I havn't read yet?
I'm trusting you to defend me and not let the shit stick anywhere! You have my permission to call me town and I won't consider it a mafiatrait this time around.
On March 21 2015 02:04 Toadesstern wrote: do I actually have to respond to Palmar and Rayn here in fears of the bullshit sticking somewhere or can I keep on reading the 25 pages I havn't read yet?
Oh hey you made a scumcase on me while not even having to read the thread. gj scum.
Neither of you is convincing me of anything with this kind of stuff, so nyeh.
makes a case on me. says he hasn't read 40 pages of the thread.
On March 21 2015 02:04 Toadesstern wrote: do I actually have to respond to Palmar and Rayn here in fears of the bullshit sticking somewhere or can I keep on reading the 25 pages I havn't read yet?
this is easy enough to respond to while reading o/
On March 21 2015 01:53 Toadesstern wrote: Holy crap 25 pages I have to read... so anyways here's where I'm at for the day withouth reading that yet but having thought about what I already know:
Starting with obvious things that don't need that much explanation because duh, it's in my filter: Palmar is mafia
Artanis I think has a decent chance to flip mafia. He has done a lot more though ever since he got some heat. Have not yet figured out if him going everywhere and voting whatever comes in front of his visor is particularly townish or scummy yet.
Rayn just plain does nothing. Okay that's an exaggeration but I've been sitting here for 24 hours and more, trying to not mention him because putting pressure on him is the wrong way to figure out his alignment. He just gets angry and the game becomes unplayable as he throws a tantrum. That being said I tried not to do that and from what I've seen he wasn't bullied by other people either, the closest thing being HF mentioning him a lot but even in that case it felt like HF was almost ignoring him so he had all the space he can ask for. And still I don't see anything a town!Rayn would do here. I'd expect him to be kicking and screaming out of his lungs having found at least one 100% mafia by now and how we all need to do what he wants and we're all terrible for not realizing that his scumread is 100% confirmed. I just don't see it. Yes he apparently has some reads but the kick is missing.
on to people I havn't realy read and it's more of a gut-read:
SL I still feel very strongly about just being a lynchbait. I don't even have a read on him, he's pretty much null for me but I just don't see this emoticon thing being a thing. The reason for which he got a target early on was stupid and I think he among myself was the easy (easier) place to dump votes onto for mafia or start a mislynch. I'm not going to lynch that unless someone shows me something big that happened in the last 25 pages about him.
Damdred/Vivax/LS, Damdred actually feels decent in my books even though he's feeling under the radar. Not sure why, but I like the way he's posting with not the slightest care&fear in the world. Would not want to lynch that today. Vivax feels very odd. Same slightly under the radar feel despite actually having a decent filter (which is a bad sign) but he at the same time just doesn't feel right like damdred does. If we're going for a lurker / under the radar. LS seems very political correct. I mostly remember him for talking about how he co-hosted or hosted one of the games I played in (either hammer or Joat I guess) and explaining how my stance might make sense. Easy stuff to talk about, add that up with actually thinking I'm town (apparently?) and I get the shivers. Like I said, I get the feeling a lot of mafias just tend to give me townreads or nullreads based on my lenghty posts and it didn't feel like with other people like Eden who actually read my posts.
So with that being said I'd be up for lynching Palmar / Artanis+Rayn / Vivax+LS right now. Maybe some of the other guys that I havn't bothered looking into yet. Can't remember a thing Onegu or breshke have said for that matter. But that's my stance for now and I'll start reading o/
this guy is town. I like the way he looks at rayn. Like a lot
Well I don't like it cause it's the usual meta argument where people expect you to play exactly the same in every game, it doesn't apply to me, it doesn't apply to rayn. People can change their styles, maybe rayn has become more considerate? I know mafia rayn as being more disruptive than town rayn so if I made the same observations as Toad I'd argue in the opposite direction.
moving up on my list. Throwing shit at me for the sake of throwing shit at me. He even disagrees with himself... not to mention that the assessment is just completly wrong. If I'm townread early on I do whatever because I feel like I can just throw out my reads without explaining them and that's better for me, if I have to actually explain because I'm in one of those rare games where I'm not the shining beacon of towniness I'll do it... badly... but I'll do it. But I NEVER said I'm good at it or even good at playing town.
Last QT I was wasked by HTS if I can coach a newby game and I instantly responded by saying that I wouldn't want to coach townies because I'm not that good at playing town. In Hammertime I said this:
On January 27 2015 14:57 Half the Sky wrote: Sanity please. Good morning.
Took about 10m to skim through. Will post my initial impressions before I jet for work.
I'll look a little harder into Liancourt's posting, but I have some thoughts and some criticisms.
This post from Lian is making me reconsider a scum read on him. Here's why:
On January 27 2015 13:51 liancourt wrote: @toad
I know you're trying to be the thread mayor and all, but I really expected HF/marv/koshi level play from you, but I'm somewhat disappointed...maybe I had high expectations of you or maybe you're holding back for some reason. It's like you're playing politics and moderating everything instead of pointing fingers and pushing things hard.
How many scumreads does Toad have right now? From what I can tell, zero.
This part of Lian's post is making me think that what if a (potential) mafia Toad could cruise on being so widely townread? It doesn't look likely at this point, but the fact that it made me think, and it shows that Lian has made some broad observation of a player relative to the entire game, despite Toad himself only having a three page filter.
I took a look at Toad's filter, and he seems to be in that information gathering/analysing phase of scumhunting, but if I don't see him pushing something/someone soon, I might just start to wonder. His first vote was on Liancourt on what I believed to be a pressure vote and then he unvoted.
Don't get me wrong, I'm still reading Toad as town, but this was a very provocative post by Lian and makes me think he's town for this observation. At the very least, I might actually move him upwards from my scumpile.
I'm one of the guys that figures out who's town and lynches into whoever is left, starting with the guy my stomach likes the least as I'm usually incredibly confident in my townreads. You're probably not going to see me make long cases about people being mafia. That mostly goes out to you and lian who said he expected me to be someone like Marv/HF... I even told you that I'm the kind of guy that just looks cute and everyone wants to cuddle :3
That being said, a walkthrough of my thoughts lately would be: [... yalayala ...].
On March 21 2015 01:53 Toadesstern wrote: Holy crap 25 pages I have to read... so anyways here's where I'm at for the day withouth reading that yet but having thought about what I already know:
Starting with obvious things that don't need that much explanation because duh, it's in my filter: Palmar is mafia
Artanis I think has a decent chance to flip mafia. He has done a lot more though ever since he got some heat. Have not yet figured out if him going everywhere and voting whatever comes in front of his visor is particularly townish or scummy yet.
Rayn just plain does nothing. Okay that's an exaggeration but I've been sitting here for 24 hours and more, trying to not mention him because putting pressure on him is the wrong way to figure out his alignment. He just gets angry and the game becomes unplayable as he throws a tantrum. That being said I tried not to do that and from what I've seen he wasn't bullied by other people either, the closest thing being HF mentioning him a lot but even in that case it felt like HF was almost ignoring him so he had all the space he can ask for. And still I don't see anything a town!Rayn would do here. I'd expect him to be kicking and screaming out of his lungs having found at least one 100% mafia by now and how we all need to do what he wants and we're all terrible for not realizing that his scumread is 100% confirmed. I just don't see it. Yes he apparently has some reads but the kick is missing.
on to people I havn't realy read and it's more of a gut-read:
SL I still feel very strongly about just being a lynchbait. I don't even have a read on him, he's pretty much null for me but I just don't see this emoticon thing being a thing. The reason for which he got a target early on was stupid and I think he among myself was the easy (easier) place to dump votes onto for mafia or start a mislynch. I'm not going to lynch that unless someone shows me something big that happened in the last 25 pages about him.
Damdred/Vivax/LS, Damdred actually feels decent in my books even though he's feeling under the radar. Not sure why, but I like the way he's posting with not the slightest care&fear in the world. Would not want to lynch that today. Vivax feels very odd. Same slightly under the radar feel despite actually having a decent filter (which is a bad sign) but he at the same time just doesn't feel right like damdred does. If we're going for a lurker / under the radar. LS seems very political correct. I mostly remember him for talking about how he co-hosted or hosted one of the games I played in (either hammer or Joat I guess) and explaining how my stance might make sense. Easy stuff to talk about, add that up with actually thinking I'm town (apparently?) and I get the shivers. Like I said, I get the feeling a lot of mafias just tend to give me townreads or nullreads based on my lenghty posts and it didn't feel like with other people like Eden who actually read my posts.
So with that being said I'd be up for lynching Palmar / Artanis+Rayn / Vivax+LS right now. Maybe some of the other guys that I havn't bothered looking into yet. Can't remember a thing Onegu or breshke have said for that matter. But that's my stance for now and I'll start reading o/
this guy is town. I like the way he looks at rayn. Like a lot
Well I don't like it cause it's the usual meta argument where people expect you to play exactly the same in every game, it doesn't apply to me, it doesn't apply to rayn. People can change their styles, maybe rayn has become more considerate? I know mafia rayn as being more disruptive than town rayn so if I made the same observations as Toad I'd argue in the opposite direction.
Like srsly vivax, wtf
Repeating because that's actually a thing that needs attention, even more so than reading another 20 pages. This guy needs some lynching comming for him
Okay seriously rayn I have no idea what's wrong with you atm except for the fact that I said something about you, which you apparently don't like.
You mention 2 things: 1) Me not having read the thread (the last 25 pages of it) 2) Me throwing out reads before having completly read it
The 2nd one is np at all, in fact the quote I directed to Vivax to show him that I don't consider myself someone on the levels as Marv/HF when playing town even shows that I'm doing that on a regular basis to give some updates on my thought process. It's from Hammertime, I was town in that game. #2 done?
About #1. I'm sorry I have to sleep at some point and I didn't really have time to read until I got back in here. I'm not awake and reading 24/7. What are you even getting at here?
On March 21 2015 02:34 Vivax wrote: Toad be honest, you're an incredibly cocky town
On March 21 2015 02:37 Vivax wrote: Now Toad, to get back to your complaint. That was more of a funny jibe at you. The fact you're being a whiny little frog makes you more mafia than what I previously said, completely unrelated to your meta but related to the fact you go haywire on Palmar calling you scum based on wording and me posting that jibe.
cocky? Yeah probably, I like to bloat if I'm in the position to do so. If I'm not I don't. I've had games that I ragequitted as town. I've won the TL-mafia award for biggest drama queen and being super whiny as town when I don't get my way...
On March 21 2015 02:33 Toadesstern wrote: @Rayn: I don't think it's wrong, that's why
You can'r know if it's wrong or right if you have not read the thread. So you are scum because you make a read without having the evidence of making such read.
That's why I mentioned not having read it. If you in the last 20 pages showed some evidence of what I'm missing in your play go ahead and quote it. I'll be happy to say "I'm sorry, it was a read based on the first 90 pages of the thread and I'll take it back because you clearly showed signs of it on page 11X". The fact that you're whining about me not having read the thread instead of just going ahead to quote some post into my face that shows how you're doing exactly what I'm missing in your play just shows I'm correct though, doesn't it?
So what's the point? I am correct after all without having read the last 20 pages and that's making you angry?
On March 21 2015 02:37 Toadesstern wrote: Okay seriously rayn I have no idea what's wrong with you atm except for the fact that I said something about you, which you apparently don't like.
You mention 2 things: 1) Me not having read the thread (the last 25 pages of it) 2) Me throwing out reads before having completly read it
The 2nd one is np at all, in fact the quote I directed to Vivax to show him that I don't consider myself someone on the levels as Marv/HF when playing town even shows that I'm doing that on a regular basis to give some updates on my thought process. It's from Hammertime, I was town in that game. #2 done?
About #1. I'm sorry I have to sleep at some point and I didn't really have time to read until I got back in here. I'm not awake and reading 24/7. What are you even getting at here?
Do not ignore the question and try to walk around it.
How can you make a read on me when you don't have the information to make a read on me?
ITS A FUCKING UPDATE ON WHERE I'M AT SO THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE MY THOUGHTPROCESS AS I GO THROUGH THE THREAD LIKE I SAID THE LAST 3 TIMES. I DO THAT ALL THE TIME
On March 21 2015 02:37 Toadesstern wrote: Okay seriously rayn I have no idea what's wrong with you atm except for the fact that I said something about you, which you apparently don't like.
You mention 2 things: 1) Me not having read the thread (the last 25 pages of it) 2) Me throwing out reads before having completly read it
The 2nd one is np at all, in fact the quote I directed to Vivax to show him that I don't consider myself someone on the levels as Marv/HF when playing town even shows that I'm doing that on a regular basis to give some updates on my thought process. It's from Hammertime, I was town in that game. #2 done?
About #1. I'm sorry I have to sleep at some point and I didn't really have time to read until I got back in here. I'm not awake and reading 24/7. What are you even getting at here?
so wait have you not read the thread or have you spent the last 24 hours not talking about rayn as a tactic? If you haven't even read the thread how can you say you've made your read based on how he acted without any pressure on him...
Okay that's an exaggeration but I've been sitting here for 24 hours and more, trying to not mention him because putting pressure on him is the wrong way to figure out his alignment. He just gets angry and the game becomes unplayable as he throws a tantrum. That being said I tried not to do that and from what I've seen he wasn't bullied by other people either, the closest thing being HF mentioning him a lot but even in that case it felt like HF was almost ignoring him so he had all the space he can ask for. And still I don't see anything a town!Rayn would do here
Have your read the thread or not?
of course not more than the first 90 pages of it like I said, I got home and made that post as an update on my thoughts.
On March 21 2015 02:37 Toadesstern wrote: Okay seriously rayn I have no idea what's wrong with you atm except for the fact that I said something about you, which you apparently don't like.
You mention 2 things: 1) Me not having read the thread (the last 25 pages of it) 2) Me throwing out reads before having completly read it
The 2nd one is np at all, in fact the quote I directed to Vivax to show him that I don't consider myself someone on the levels as Marv/HF when playing town even shows that I'm doing that on a regular basis to give some updates on my thought process. It's from Hammertime, I was town in that game. #2 done?
About #1. I'm sorry I have to sleep at some point and I didn't really have time to read until I got back in here. I'm not awake and reading 24/7. What are you even getting at here?
so wait have you not read the thread or have you spent the last 24 hours not talking about rayn as a tactic? If you haven't even read the thread how can you say you've made your read based on how he acted without any pressure on him...
Okay that's an exaggeration but I've been sitting here for 24 hours and more, trying to not mention him because putting pressure on him is the wrong way to figure out his alignment. He just gets angry and the game becomes unplayable as he throws a tantrum. That being said I tried not to do that and from what I've seen he wasn't bullied by other people either, the closest thing being HF mentioning him a lot but even in that case it felt like HF was almost ignoring him so he had all the space he can ask for. And still I don't see anything a town!Rayn would do here
Have your read the thread or not?
of course not more than the first 90 pages of it like I said, I got home and made that post as an update on my thoughts.
Well then that post and this discussion about it would have been time better spent catching up and posting your reads afterward.
I completly disagree. The discussion maybe, but Vivax was throwing shit at me. The post? Aboslutely not. I'm the kind of guy that posts stream-like updates on his thoughtprocess throughout the entire game without thinking it through beforehand. That's my style and how people read me, by looking wether that thought process makes sense rather than looking at the results later on.
On March 21 2015 02:37 Toadesstern wrote: Okay seriously rayn I have no idea what's wrong with you atm except for the fact that I said something about you, which you apparently don't like.
You mention 2 things: 1) Me not having read the thread (the last 25 pages of it) 2) Me throwing out reads before having completly read it
The 2nd one is np at all, in fact the quote I directed to Vivax to show him that I don't consider myself someone on the levels as Marv/HF when playing town even shows that I'm doing that on a regular basis to give some updates on my thought process. It's from Hammertime, I was town in that game. #2 done?
About #1. I'm sorry I have to sleep at some point and I didn't really have time to read until I got back in here. I'm not awake and reading 24/7. What are you even getting at here?
so wait have you not read the thread or have you spent the last 24 hours not talking about rayn as a tactic? If you haven't even read the thread how can you say you've made your read based on how he acted without any pressure on him...
Okay that's an exaggeration but I've been sitting here for 24 hours and more, trying to not mention him because putting pressure on him is the wrong way to figure out his alignment. He just gets angry and the game becomes unplayable as he throws a tantrum. That being said I tried not to do that and from what I've seen he wasn't bullied by other people either, the closest thing being HF mentioning him a lot but even in that case it felt like HF was almost ignoring him so he had all the space he can ask for. And still I don't see anything a town!Rayn would do here
Have your read the thread or not?
of course not more than the first 90 pages of it like I said, I got home and made that post as an update on my thoughts.
Well then that post and this discussion about it would have been time better spent catching up and posting your reads afterward.
ff, how much of the thread have you read? i know you didn't read most of the thread as of last night, so why don't we turn the hypocrisy down a notch unless you're telling me you're fully caught up now?
I have at least skimmed every page. Most of them I even read every word
well that I've done too.. I just wouldn't call that read if I spend 5 minutes per page.
On March 21 2015 02:37 Toadesstern wrote: Okay seriously rayn I have no idea what's wrong with you atm except for the fact that I said something about you, which you apparently don't like.
You mention 2 things: 1) Me not having read the thread (the last 25 pages of it) 2) Me throwing out reads before having completly read it
The 2nd one is np at all, in fact the quote I directed to Vivax to show him that I don't consider myself someone on the levels as Marv/HF when playing town even shows that I'm doing that on a regular basis to give some updates on my thought process. It's from Hammertime, I was town in that game. #2 done?
About #1. I'm sorry I have to sleep at some point and I didn't really have time to read until I got back in here. I'm not awake and reading 24/7. What are you even getting at here?
so wait have you not read the thread or have you spent the last 24 hours not talking about rayn as a tactic? If you haven't even read the thread how can you say you've made your read based on how he acted without any pressure on him...
Okay that's an exaggeration but I've been sitting here for 24 hours and more, trying to not mention him because putting pressure on him is the wrong way to figure out his alignment. He just gets angry and the game becomes unplayable as he throws a tantrum. That being said I tried not to do that and from what I've seen he wasn't bullied by other people either, the closest thing being HF mentioning him a lot but even in that case it felt like HF was almost ignoring him so he had all the space he can ask for. And still I don't see anything a town!Rayn would do here
Have your read the thread or not?
of course not more than the first 90 pages of it like I said, I got home and made that post as an update on my thoughts.
Well then that post and this discussion about it would have been time better spent catching up and posting your reads afterward.
ff, how much of the thread have you read? i know you didn't read most of the thread as of last night, so why don't we turn the hypocrisy down a notch unless you're telling me you're fully caught up now?
I have at least skimmed every page. Most of them I even read every word
well that I've done too.. I just wouldn't call that read if I spend 5 minutes per page.
On March 21 2015 02:37 Toadesstern wrote: Okay seriously rayn I have no idea what's wrong with you atm except for the fact that I said something about you, which you apparently don't like.
You mention 2 things: 1) Me not having read the thread (the last 25 pages of it) 2) Me throwing out reads before having completly read it
The 2nd one is np at all, in fact the quote I directed to Vivax to show him that I don't consider myself someone on the levels as Marv/HF when playing town even shows that I'm doing that on a regular basis to give some updates on my thought process. It's from Hammertime, I was town in that game. #2 done?
About #1. I'm sorry I have to sleep at some point and I didn't really have time to read until I got back in here. I'm not awake and reading 24/7. What are you even getting at here?
so wait have you not read the thread or have you spent the last 24 hours not talking about rayn as a tactic? If you haven't even read the thread how can you say you've made your read based on how he acted without any pressure on him...
Okay that's an exaggeration but I've been sitting here for 24 hours and more, trying to not mention him because putting pressure on him is the wrong way to figure out his alignment. He just gets angry and the game becomes unplayable as he throws a tantrum. That being said I tried not to do that and from what I've seen he wasn't bullied by other people either, the closest thing being HF mentioning him a lot but even in that case it felt like HF was almost ignoring him so he had all the space he can ask for. And still I don't see anything a town!Rayn would do here
Have your read the thread or not?
of course not more than the first 90 pages of it like I said, I got home and made that post as an update on my thoughts.
Well then that post and this discussion about it would have been time better spent catching up and posting your reads afterward.
ff, how much of the thread have you read? i know you didn't read most of the thread as of last night, so why don't we turn the hypocrisy down a notch unless you're telling me you're fully caught up now?
I have at least skimmed every page. Most of them I even read every word
well that I've done too.. I just wouldn't call that read if I spend 5 minutes per page.
I'm specifically talking about this part.
I've been sitting here for 24 hours and more, trying to not mention him
Why say that if you don't consider yourself caught up?
I havn't physically sat down at the PC 24 hours in a row.
It's a phrase to show that I tried to give rayn some space and see if he does something, in this case for about 24 hours.
like... in during those 24 hours there were many times during which I wasn't actually at the PC. Sometimes I had to be on the toilet, sometimes I was eating, sometimes I might have slept and sometimes I might have been on the PC but not reading because I was playing boats-moba!
On March 21 2015 02:55 Vivax wrote: This is entirely subjective, but usually when Toad is town I read like the first half of his posts, then get tired but at least I get the feeling he's town, then proceed to ignore them for the rest of the game until he gets shot rather early for reasons I have never understood.
Now that I'm actually reading them I feel quite worried cause he's trying to look like he makes sense and is an asset who cares, but without the usual cockiness.
On March 21 2015 02:37 Vivax wrote: Now Toad, to get back to your complaint. That was more of a funny jibe at you. The fact you're being a whiny little frog makes you more mafia than what I previously said, completely unrelated to your meta but related to the fact you go haywire on Palmar calling you scum based on wording and me posting that jibe.
cocky? Yeah probably, I like to bloat if I'm in the position to do so. If I'm not I don't. I've had games that I ragequitted as town. I've won the TL-mafia award for biggest drama queen and being super whiny as town when I don't get my way...
On March 21 2015 02:33 Toadesstern wrote: @Rayn: I don't think it's wrong, that's why
You can'r know if it's wrong or right if you have not read the thread. So you are scum because you make a read without having the evidence of making such read.
That's why I mentioned not having read it. If you in the last 20 pages showed some evidence of what I'm missing in your play go ahead and quote it. I'll be happy to say "I'm sorry, it was a read based on the first 90 pages of the thread and I'll take it back because you clearly showed signs of it on page 11X". The fact that you're whining about me not having read the thread instead of just going ahead to quote some post into my face that shows how you're doing exactly what I'm missing in your play just shows I'm correct though, doesn't it?
So what's the point? I am correct after all without having read the last 20 pages and that's making you angry?
thanks for figuring out what I already explained to you and now you're turning it against me implying that it's something you figured out and it's something scummy for no apparent reason.
this is too much. The ranking goes as follows: Palmar >> Vivax > Rayn > Artanis. Ranked by scummyness. Rayn actually gets minor townpoints for throwing a tantrum but I'd still value him a better lynch than Artanis, just not better than Palmar/Vivax
On March 21 2015 03:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Toad do you think the interaction you just had with Vivax actually meant anything? I found all of it incredibly boring and null.
We've had at least 5 minutes like this just now with him:
On March 21 2015 02:14 Vivax wrote: Whenever Toad doesn't act like he ate wisdom from a spoon there's a good shot he's mafia yes.
On March 21 2015 01:53 Toadesstern wrote: Holy crap 25 pages I have to read... so anyways here's where I'm at for the day withouth reading that yet but having thought about what I already know:
Starting with obvious things that don't need that much explanation because duh, it's in my filter: Palmar is mafia
Artanis I think has a decent chance to flip mafia. He has done a lot more though ever since he got some heat. Have not yet figured out if him going everywhere and voting whatever comes in front of his visor is particularly townish or scummy yet.
Rayn just plain does nothing. Okay that's an exaggeration but I've been sitting here for 24 hours and more, trying to not mention him because putting pressure on him is the wrong way to figure out his alignment. He just gets angry and the game becomes unplayable as he throws a tantrum. That being said I tried not to do that and from what I've seen he wasn't bullied by other people either, the closest thing being HF mentioning him a lot but even in that case it felt like HF was almost ignoring him so he had all the space he can ask for. And still I don't see anything a town!Rayn would do here. I'd expect him to be kicking and screaming out of his lungs having found at least one 100% mafia by now and how we all need to do what he wants and we're all terrible for not realizing that his scumread is 100% confirmed. I just don't see it. Yes he apparently has some reads but the kick is missing.
on to people I havn't realy read and it's more of a gut-read:
SL I still feel very strongly about just being a lynchbait. I don't even have a read on him, he's pretty much null for me but I just don't see this emoticon thing being a thing. The reason for which he got a target early on was stupid and I think he among myself was the easy (easier) place to dump votes onto for mafia or start a mislynch. I'm not going to lynch that unless someone shows me something big that happened in the last 25 pages about him.
Damdred/Vivax/LS, Damdred actually feels decent in my books even though he's feeling under the radar. Not sure why, but I like the way he's posting with not the slightest care&fear in the world. Would not want to lynch that today. Vivax feels very odd. Same slightly under the radar feel despite actually having a decent filter (which is a bad sign) but he at the same time just doesn't feel right like damdred does. If we're going for a lurker / under the radar. LS seems very political correct. I mostly remember him for talking about how he co-hosted or hosted one of the games I played in (either hammer or Joat I guess) and explaining how my stance might make sense. Easy stuff to talk about, add that up with actually thinking I'm town (apparently?) and I get the shivers. Like I said, I get the feeling a lot of mafias just tend to give me townreads or nullreads based on my lenghty posts and it didn't feel like with other people like Eden who actually read my posts.
So with that being said I'd be up for lynching Palmar / Artanis+Rayn / Vivax+LS right now. Maybe some of the other guys that I havn't bothered looking into yet. Can't remember a thing Onegu or breshke have said for that matter. But that's my stance for now and I'll start reading o/
this guy is town. I like the way he looks at rayn. Like a lot
Well I don't like it cause it's the usual meta argument where people expect you to play exactly the same in every game, it doesn't apply to me, it doesn't apply to rayn. People can change their styles, maybe rayn has become more considerate? I know mafia rayn as being more disruptive than town rayn so if I made the same observations as Toad I'd argue in the opposite direction.
Quoting this for the third time because it's super easy to show mafiaagenda here quickly.
He only cares about his standards if they fit his agenda. Same can be said about everything else he said towards me, he even backpaddled when he said something along the lines of "yeah but come on, you are super cocky, aren't you?" showing that he even realized it himsef. Not quoting those to save the thread though
On March 21 2015 03:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Toad do you think the interaction you just had with Vivax actually meant anything? I found all of it incredibly boring and null.
We've had at least 5 minutes like this just now with him:
On March 21 2015 01:53 Toadesstern wrote: Holy crap 25 pages I have to read... so anyways here's where I'm at for the day withouth reading that yet but having thought about what I already know:
Starting with obvious things that don't need that much explanation because duh, it's in my filter: Palmar is mafia
Artanis I think has a decent chance to flip mafia. He has done a lot more though ever since he got some heat. Have not yet figured out if him going everywhere and voting whatever comes in front of his visor is particularly townish or scummy yet.
Rayn just plain does nothing. Okay that's an exaggeration but I've been sitting here for 24 hours and more, trying to not mention him because putting pressure on him is the wrong way to figure out his alignment. He just gets angry and the game becomes unplayable as he throws a tantrum. That being said I tried not to do that and from what I've seen he wasn't bullied by other people either, the closest thing being HF mentioning him a lot but even in that case it felt like HF was almost ignoring him so he had all the space he can ask for. And still I don't see anything a town!Rayn would do here. I'd expect him to be kicking and screaming out of his lungs having found at least one 100% mafia by now and how we all need to do what he wants and we're all terrible for not realizing that his scumread is 100% confirmed. I just don't see it. Yes he apparently has some reads but the kick is missing.
on to people I havn't realy read and it's more of a gut-read:
SL I still feel very strongly about just being a lynchbait. I don't even have a read on him, he's pretty much null for me but I just don't see this emoticon thing being a thing. The reason for which he got a target early on was stupid and I think he among myself was the easy (easier) place to dump votes onto for mafia or start a mislynch. I'm not going to lynch that unless someone shows me something big that happened in the last 25 pages about him.
Damdred/Vivax/LS, Damdred actually feels decent in my books even though he's feeling under the radar. Not sure why, but I like the way he's posting with not the slightest care&fear in the world. Would not want to lynch that today. Vivax feels very odd. Same slightly under the radar feel despite actually having a decent filter (which is a bad sign) but he at the same time just doesn't feel right like damdred does. If we're going for a lurker / under the radar. LS seems very political correct. I mostly remember him for talking about how he co-hosted or hosted one of the games I played in (either hammer or Joat I guess) and explaining how my stance might make sense. Easy stuff to talk about, add that up with actually thinking I'm town (apparently?) and I get the shivers. Like I said, I get the feeling a lot of mafias just tend to give me townreads or nullreads based on my lenghty posts and it didn't feel like with other people like Eden who actually read my posts.
So with that being said I'd be up for lynching Palmar / Artanis+Rayn / Vivax+LS right now. Maybe some of the other guys that I havn't bothered looking into yet. Can't remember a thing Onegu or breshke have said for that matter. But that's my stance for now and I'll start reading o/
this guy is town. I like the way he looks at rayn. Like a lot
Well I don't like it cause it's the usual meta argument where people expect you to play exactly the same in every game, it doesn't apply to me, it doesn't apply to rayn. People can change their styles, maybe rayn has become more considerate? I know mafia rayn as being more disruptive than town rayn so if I made the same observations as Toad I'd argue in the opposite direction.
Quoting this for the third time because it's super easy to show mafiaagenda here quickly.
He only cares about his standards if they fit his agenda. Same can be said about everything else he said towards me, he even backpaddled when he said something along the lines of "yeah but come on, you are super cocky, aren't you?" showing that he even realized it himsef. Not quoting those to save the thread though
On March 21 2015 03:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I feel you've proven he's a hypocrite. Problem is town can be hypocritical too.
I've proven he's a hypocrite for the sole purpose of throwing shit at me somewhat close at deadline. Big difference.
When you're seemingly not a potential lynch candidate (at least looking at current votes) is there really a mafia agenda for throwing shit on you now though?
Palmar and Rayn just voted me seconds before that, at least they said so in here. I'd say there is some mafiaagenda to be had there, ESPECIALLY if you don't consider Palmars to be from mafia.
On March 21 2015 03:46 rsoultin wrote: viva, ls isn't mafia
i'd rather lynch you over him, cause even though i'm having doubts whether or not you're mafia, i trust my read on him more
i've already said i'm willing to consolidate elsewhere but i want a rayn lynch cause that's the one i'm most certain on
can we agree on someone other than ls?
Pick one between Toad, SL and Artanis.
Especially Artanis should know better.
of those the only one i think is better than a cointoss is sicklucker xP
what am i missing?
I am not letting you vote sicklucker unless you give me a good damn reasoning for why he should be lynched instead of people like Vivax / Rayn / Palmar (maybe Artanis but he wants to lynch Vivax so that's good)
On March 21 2015 03:56 Vivax wrote: Toad surely isn't a cointoss
i think his palmar reasoning is bad -shrugs- but not to the point that it makes him scum
like, i'd be flipping shit too if people tried to mislynch me for what i perceived to be the same reason i got mislynched last time
i also think that saying he's only scumreading the popular scumreads is kinda unfair...given they wouldn't be popular if people didn't have reasons to scumread them?
no one's arguments against toad have really seemed that strong to me -shrugs-
Also Palmar most popular scumread as well. Thanks Vivax for clearing that for me.
On March 21 2015 03:56 Vivax wrote: Toad surely isn't a cointoss
i think his palmar reasoning is bad -shrugs- but not to the point that it makes him scum
like, i'd be flipping shit too if people tried to mislynch me for what i perceived to be the same reason i got mislynched last time
i also think that saying he's only scumreading the popular scumreads is kinda unfair...given they wouldn't be popular if people didn't have reasons to scumread them?
no one's arguments against toad have really seemed that strong to me -shrugs-
Also Palmar most popular scumread as well. Thanks Vivax for clearing that for me.
mentioning that again to show that whole point about how he doesn't care about his own standards unless it fits his agenda. Like how I'm supposedly playing towards what he perceives to be my mafiameta while saying that people using meta to figure out other people are all crap because people can change and you shouldn't use meta.
On March 21 2015 04:40 rsoultin wrote: nah, it's between vivax and ls cause people won't trust me on rayn -_-
and lord knows what hf is doing
I don't think there's a reasonable chance for LS to happen if the people voting him are BM, Vivax and Onegu whereas a lot of people said they'd be fine with Rayn and Vivax lynched.
On March 21 2015 04:40 rsoultin wrote: nah, it's between vivax and ls cause people won't trust me on rayn -_-
and lord knows what hf is doing
So apparently the only guy you didn't feel coinflippy on (SL) isn't an option anymore but LS is.
I call bs.
it's not about reads... it's about what's reasonably possible given what we have and what people are willing to vote. None of the three guys you mentioned are going to be lynched today.
On March 21 2015 05:03 Vivax wrote: Ok now that enough mafia or idiots are piled up on me I hardclaim Drax.
Drax the vig, the easiest role in the game to fakeclaim as mafia. Who would have though. Really convenient, isn't it?
it doesn't matter, it's provable and CCable and it's real.
I told you that you would regret it
it is not proveable. If you get checked you will show up as vig, that can be townvig or mafiavig. There's nothing about it proveable. As well you're wasting a towncheck on you as well as having the ability to just fake it by using KP if we don't end up checking it. Nothing about this claim is proveable
On March 21 2015 05:03 Vivax wrote: Ok now that enough mafia or idiots are piled up on me I hardclaim Drax.
Well......
##vote raynpelikoneet for now. I wasn't really liking a Vivax lynch anyway (based on the first 4 pages of Vivax's filter and Damdred's case). Raynpelikoneet's filter feels weaker.
get back on Vivax. Nothing about this claim should make you unvote
there's absolutely no reason to believe that claim vivax just did. He's trying to waste a cop-check in a game that might not have a cop or vig. The OP clearly states that that's the POSSIBLE roles in a game that was severly downgraded because of lack of people. We will not have every bluerole in the OP.
He's just trying to get out of the lynch by claiming something that's not proveable.
On March 21 2015 05:18 Superbia wrote: I think we have the vigis shoot each other, right? This fucks us up so hard if they're both town, but I don't think we should spend lynches on this.
how about we lynch the fucking confirmed mafia Vivax like we were about to do before any of the claims happened and proceed to make mafia waste either a KP or RB on me during the night?
On March 21 2015 05:19 Trfel wrote: And there lies the problem.... I'm not sure if there are two vigilantes in this game or not.
How many blue roles would we be expected to have in this game? Any clue? The orb sort of counts as a blue role, too...
look at it before the claims happened. You wanted to lynch Vivax because you thought he was mafia. We have 2 claimed vigs.... and you're not sure which one to believe?
Like it makes a fuckton of sense that I get mad and blow up when vivax claims vig if I'm vig myself. It's not like it's comming out of nowhere. The guy is mafia who fakeclaimed to get out and you were about to let him get out of the lynch.
On March 21 2015 05:18 Superbia wrote: I think we have the vigis shoot each other, right? This fucks us up so hard if they're both town, but I don't think we should spend lynches on this.
how about we lynch the fucking confirmed mafia Vivax like we were about to do before any of the claims happened and proceed to make mafia waste either a KP or RB on me during the night?
Jesus Christ, step back from the rhetoric for a second. He's not a confirmed mafia, in the slightest. Reevaluate the case. You're tunneling so hard, and it's not convincing somebody like me that he's mafia. It looks to me more like you're just dead set on lynching him and no information gained in the thread will change your mind.
HE FUCKING CLAIMED DRAX. THERES LITERALLY NOTHING THAT CAN MAKE ME WANT TO LYNCH SOMEONE ELSE.
You could go ahead and claim mafia with the words "gg, game over I was mafia as well" and I'd still lynch Vivax here.
On March 21 2015 05:44 Palmar wrote: Like everyone is stupid and don't realize cc-ing as a vig is a dumb-as-fuck play, there is a chance Toad is stupid like everyone else. I haven't read back but if me pointing this out is the first person to say it there is also a chance that Toad simply didn't think of it.
Then again, I'm rolling the dice on Toad. I'm just hedging.
You are the first person. Here's what happened, but go read it yourself:
1) Vivax (fake)claims Vig shortly before deadlien for maximum confusion 2) I tell people to stop taking it seriously because vig can be fakeclaimed by anyone. There's no alignment cop, mafia can even fake it without being vig themselves 3) I tell people to get the fuck back on Vivax because his claim is bullshit 4) Noone cares and people unvote people 5) I am furious knowing that I am vig myself and won't let him get out of this one. He literally claimed mafia
Now I know you hate me but if you want to look even ever so slightly townish go stop that bullshit of yours and vote Vivax.
Typing this out on the slim chance of me actually being wrong about you being mafia like everyone else seems to try and tell me....
On March 21 2015 05:47 rsoultin wrote: ##vote Vivax
eh i'm going with my gut lol
i don't know that i believe rayn, honestly, but i'm not gonna lynch him today
toad, seriously, if you're VT CCing viva just to get him lynched you need to come clean now. i really kinda hate how often people fake-claim even as town >< but i really, really do not see a scum fake claim in this situation, stupid move or not
I am not fakeclaiming as a VT. If I ever say such a thing go ahead and lynch me immediatly no questions asked.
On March 21 2015 05:49 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah okay. I've thought rayn was town most of the day, maybe badly but whatever.
##Unvote ##Vote: Toadesstern
Sry Toad, if you're town you should have just let us lynch whoever and shot Vivax.
he's fucking confirmed mafia and you're not lynching him without this... I'm still getting to shoot unless mafia doublestacks and roleblocks me because I'll have a medic on my ass after vivax flips red (assuming medic exists)
On March 21 2015 05:57 Fecalfeast wrote: ls is mafia with toad, the plan is they are going to get vivax lynched and when he flips vig play the "oh no there must be 2 vigs" game
except that I've been saying that there is no way there are 2 vigs in this game.
I even went ahead and wrote out that you guys should lynch me no matter what if I ever get in this and tell people I fakeclaimed Vig as VT because I'm not doing that. I'm not going to back down on Vivax fakeclaiming either. There are no two townvigs in this game.
Vivax might be mafiavig who fakeclaimed to get his shot off though, which Palmar is conveniently ignoring to vote me based on "toad would just wait"... no I wouldn't
On March 21 2015 05:57 Fecalfeast wrote: ls is mafia with toad, the plan is they are going to get vivax lynched and when he flips vig play the "oh no there must be 2 vigs" game
except that I've been saying that there is no way there are 2 vigs in this game.
I even went ahead and wrote out that you guys should lynch me no matter what if I ever get in this and tell people I fakeclaimed Vig as VT because I'm not doing that. I'm not going to back down on Vivax fakeclaiming either. There are no two townvigs in this game.
Vivax might be mafiavig who fakeclaimed to get his shot off though, which Palmar is conveniently ignoring to vote me based on "toad would just wait"... no I wouldn't
Ok so in the hypothetical situation where vivax flips vig, what would you say? You'd just afk and let yourself die the next day?
That's not possible, I am drax... Vivax was mafia before the claim and he's even more mafia now. There's no way he's going to flip town.
I shouldn't be saying this but okay let's walk through this: In the 99% chance of vivax flipping mafia I'll yell "told ya bitches!" while requesting medic protection so that mafia has to doublestack as well as RB me in the 1% chance of vivax flipping Town Not-Vig I'll be mad. Seriously mad. There is no scenario in which Vivax flips town-vig.
On March 21 2015 05:57 Fecalfeast wrote: ls is mafia with toad, the plan is they are going to get vivax lynched and when he flips vig play the "oh no there must be 2 vigs" game
except that I've been saying that there is no way there are 2 vigs in this game.
I even went ahead and wrote out that you guys should lynch me no matter what if I ever get in this and tell people I fakeclaimed Vig as VT because I'm not doing that. I'm not going to back down on Vivax fakeclaiming either. There are no two townvigs in this game.
Vivax might be mafiavig who fakeclaimed to get his shot off though, which Palmar is conveniently ignoring to vote me based on "toad would just wait"... no I wouldn't
There is no mafiavig
...
Mafia vigilante is in fact a possibility.
As is alignment cop.
Both Vivax and Toadesstern have made an error with regards to possible roles in the game.
No, mafia doesn't have a role with KP except when they get the orb.
Lie:
Korath the Pursuer
[image loading]
Korath the Pursuer is trained in the martial arts and wields beta batons capable of stunning opponents on contact.
Korath can supercharge enough force in his batons to kill any player of his choosing on a given night.
Hence why your stupid vig fakeclaim is the easiest fakeclaim in the game and why you went for it.
On March 21 2015 06:08 Palmar wrote: I honestly don't know by the way. I don't think they're both vigis.
I do appreciate that there is no need for scumToad to counterclaim this, it makes literally no sense. I do question though why he counterclaimed this, because shooting Vivax in the night seems MUCH cleaner.
Maybe mafia really wants VivaxVig dead? or maybe Toad is town and didn't apply brain to game.
I thought I had a good point about toad earlier in the game and I though he overreacted when I pointed it out. I honestly don't know. Like I would totally counterclaim Vivax as mafia, but I also understand that not everyone plays mafia as recklessly as I do. I have no idea if it's within Toad's range.
What if Vivax is mafiaVig. Ever thought about that?
On March 21 2015 06:08 Palmar wrote: I honestly don't know by the way. I don't think they're both vigis.
I do appreciate that there is no need for scumToad to counterclaim this, it makes literally no sense. I do question though why he counterclaimed this, because shooting Vivax in the night seems MUCH cleaner.
Maybe mafia really wants VivaxVig dead? or maybe Toad is town and didn't apply brain to game.
I thought I had a good point about toad earlier in the game and I though he overreacted when I pointed it out. I honestly don't know. Like I would totally counterclaim Vivax as mafia, but I also understand that not everyone plays mafia as recklessly as I do. I have no idea if it's within Toad's range.
What if Vivax is mafiaVig. Ever thought about that?
just to explain it a little more because you either have a bad case of the dumb or don't want to understand it Palmar: If we don't lynch Vivax today there's a good chance he will get to use his shot if he is a mafiaVig
On March 21 2015 05:57 Fecalfeast wrote: ls is mafia with toad, the plan is they are going to get vivax lynched and when he flips vig play the "oh no there must be 2 vigs" game
except that I've been saying that there is no way there are 2 vigs in this game.
I even went ahead and wrote out that you guys should lynch me no matter what if I ever get in this and tell people I fakeclaimed Vig as VT because I'm not doing that. I'm not going to back down on Vivax fakeclaiming either. There are no two townvigs in this game.
Vivax might be mafiavig who fakeclaimed to get his shot off though, which Palmar is conveniently ignoring to vote me based on "toad would just wait"... no I wouldn't
There is no mafiavig
...
Mafia vigilante is in fact a possibility.
As is alignment cop.
Both Vivax and Toadesstern have made an error with regards to possible roles in the game.
No, mafia doesn't have a role with KP except when they get the orb.
Lie:
Korath the Pursuer
[image loading]
Korath the Pursuer is trained in the martial arts and wields beta batons capable of stunning opponents on contact.
Korath can supercharge enough force in his batons to kill any player of his choosing on a given night.
Hence why your stupid vig fakeclaim is the easiest fakeclaim in the game and why you went for it.
Hm, last time I checked there was no mafia vig I could swear.
Anyway Toad, enjoy your survival for today, as you will be dead tomorrow.
Did you already send in instructions to doubelstack me?
On March 21 2015 06:12 Palmar wrote: and if you're mafiavig you get to use your shot if we lynch vivax.
hurr durr.
You're asking me wether my play makes sense. I know I am not mafiaVig. I am townVig. Thus I claimed because Vivax is 100% certain mafia and I don't want him to shoot because I am not mafia.
On March 21 2015 05:44 Palmar wrote: Like everyone is stupid and don't realize cc-ing as a vig is a dumb-as-fuck play, there is a chance Toad is stupid like everyone else. I haven't read back but if me pointing this out is the first person to say it there is also a chance that Toad simply didn't think of it.
Then again, I'm rolling the dice on Toad. I'm just hedging.
You are the first person. Here's what happened, but go read it yourself:
1) Vivax (fake)claims Vig shortly before deadlien for maximum confusion 2) I tell people to stop taking it seriously because vig can be fakeclaimed by anyone. There's no alignment cop, mafia can even fake it without being vig themselves 3) I tell people to get the fuck back on Vivax because his claim is bullshit 4) Noone cares and people unvote people 5) I am furious knowing that I am vig myself and won't let him get out of this one. He literally claimed mafia
Now I know you hate me but if you want to look even ever so slightly townish go stop that bullshit of yours and vote Vivax.
Typing this out on the slim chance of me actually being wrong about you being mafia like everyone else seems to try and tell me....
On March 21 2015 06:12 Palmar wrote: and if you're mafiavig you get to use your shot if we lynch vivax.
hurr durr.
You're asking me wether my play makes sense. I know I am not mafiaVig. I am townVig. Thus I claimed because Vivax is 100% certain mafia and I don't want him to shoot because I am not mafia.
Srsly, how are you not getting this
Oh I see what you mean.
nice. Now that you see it can you pretend to not be his ally and bus Vivax?
On March 21 2015 05:44 Palmar wrote: Like everyone is stupid and don't realize cc-ing as a vig is a dumb-as-fuck play, there is a chance Toad is stupid like everyone else. I haven't read back but if me pointing this out is the first person to say it there is also a chance that Toad simply didn't think of it.
Then again, I'm rolling the dice on Toad. I'm just hedging.
You are the first person. Here's what happened, but go read it yourself:
1) Vivax (fake)claims Vig shortly before deadlien for maximum confusion 2) I tell people to stop taking it seriously because vig can be fakeclaimed by anyone. There's no alignment cop, mafia can even fake it without being vig themselves 3) I tell people to get the fuck back on Vivax because his claim is bullshit 4) Noone cares and people unvote people 5) I am furious knowing that I am vig myself and won't let him get out of this one. He literally claimed mafia
Now I know you hate me but if you want to look even ever so slightly townish go stop that bullshit of yours and vote Vivax.
Typing this out on the slim chance of me actually being wrong about you being mafia like everyone else seems to try and tell me....
On March 21 2015 06:24 Superbia wrote: Toad. What if you're both vig?
If that's the case Vivax will flip mafiaVig
He would risk mafia kp by claiming vig? Why?
wat? I'm saying chances are actually pretty decent that he is in fact Vig, just not a town Vig but Vig and had this bullshit prepared from the beginning of the game because there's no way to prove it with only role-cops and no alignment cops.
We can not let him get into n1 without being lynched.
On March 21 2015 06:24 Breshke wrote: I would not be intrested in lynching Vig claims since that can easily resolve itself in the night
we don't want it to resolve in the night... why would you want a possible mafiaVig to shoot
So both of you can't be roleblocked by mafia. If one of you doesn't shoot the other one then they die in the night.. If one of you shoots the other and they flip town big then they die. I think it is very unlikely we have two town vigi's.
With my plan the town vig gets a chance to shoot still. What will probs happen is that the town vig will get RB (they might not even have one) and the mafia vig wont shoot so that could be even better since the town vig willl still be alive and soak up a RB
except that Mafia still gets +1 KP that way?
Vivax could claim d2 "I shot Toad but he's still alive, so I got roleblocked by mafia" while they use Vivax vigshot + 1KP to doublestack someone as well as another KP for someone else making it look like 2 kills happened, I got roleblocked by mafia and there's no way for anyone to figure out what happened besides me.
On March 21 2015 06:31 Trfel wrote: Toadesstern, there is the possibility of an alignment cop. It's the very first role listed.
Does this change your view at all?
oh did not realize that, only remembered the orb being changed to role-cop and thought that it's just mimicing the other roles assuming cop would be role-cop.
But no not really. I still don't want Vivax to use his shot if he's actually Vig
On March 21 2015 06:24 Breshke wrote: I would not be intrested in lynching Vig claims since that can easily resolve itself in the night
we don't want it to resolve in the night... why would you want a possible mafiaVig to shoot
So both of you can't be roleblocked by mafia. If one of you doesn't shoot the other one then they die in the night.. If one of you shoots the other and they flip town big then they die. I think it is very unlikely we have two town vigi's.
With my plan the town vig gets a chance to shoot still. What will probs happen is that the town vig will get RB (they might not even have one) and the mafia vig wont shoot so that could be even better since the town vig willl still be alive and soak up a RB
except that Mafia still gets +1 KP that way?
Vivax could claim d2 "I shot Toad but he's still alive, so I got roleblocked by mafia" while they use Vivax vigshot + 1KP to doublestack someone as well as another KP for someone else making it look like 2 kills happened, I got roleblocked by mafia and there's no way for anyone to figure out what happened besides me.
Same shit different day
That isn't plus one kp for mafia that is 2 kp the ssame amount they would have normally. I see the world you are talking about though mafia shoot 2 people and mafia vig shoots another town and then both mafia vigi's still claim RB. So yeah this is true we probably should choose today as if we lynch right we have the most to gain from it.
That being said if we have a tracker couldn't he just track one of the vigi's? (i guess if he is claimed it isn't much use)
Also if anyone could direct me to the pages in which the 2 vigi claims happen that would be really useful
it is +1 KP because the one guy they're doublestacking is 100% dead. People do that for a reason...
Okay I'm going to be afk for like 20-25 minutes because I need to make sure I don't starve. Don't dare to pull any kind of bullshit on me here. We're lynching Vivax. He's not getting a chance to use his shot if he actually is mafiaVig
I'll be checking in here inbetween but I like my food in colors different than black
Chances are actually decent that Vivax will claim something different like 10 minutes prior to deadline for ultimate confusion and a final chance to get out of the lynch. Like "sry guys I'm not actually vig. I'm VT who tried to get out of the lynch" or some other craprole hoping he will get a 2nd CC out of us so that they get 2 blue roles from his lynch.
On March 21 2015 06:58 Superbia wrote: Like you're one of the only people I don't dislike on that wagon atm Palmar.
I like HF's plan of letting Vigi(s) do whatever the fuck they want tonight. Maybe we confirm one, maybe we force mafia's hand in roleblocking a Vigi over a RB.
if you think the wagon is bad, you should be voting the other.
we're lynching one of them or the other tonight. I don't really care which one. It makes more sense that Vivax is the mafia, but Toad made a bad play if he's town so I'm fine with lynching him too.
It's still possible that they're both town. I like HF's play. Let Vigi(s) do what they want, if mafia RB a vigi the tracker gets free reign, otherwise vigi(s) can confirm themselves (probably).
Uh, what?
First of all, I'm not convinced that raynpelikoneet's claim is truthful. Second, let's imagine it is truthful, and the vigilantes are both still alive, and raynpelikoneet wasn't roleblocked. I don't see how this helps us at all?
Please explain.
tracker tracks a vigi. They can see if they shoot someone or if they are roleblocked etc. This plan fails though if the mafia who CC'd is not the mafia vig
Ok, let's imagine that mafia roleblocks the town vigilante. If the tracker tracks the roleblocked vigilante, then town gets no information. If the tracker tracks the mafia, then as long as that mafia isn't carrying KP (reasonable assumption), then they won't get anything from that either.
If mafia is not putting rb or kp (kp is riskier due to probable medic in setup) on a tracker (assuming that he is), it is a huge risk for mafia, as he can essentially solve a big part of the game by himself. If mafia plays it safe they allow the vigi situation to resolve during the night.
I say let's put the ball in mafia's court. I have plenty of others I want to lynch outside of the two vigi wagons.
I am going to kick and scream for the rest of the game if you don't lynch Vivax right now
On March 21 2015 06:58 Superbia wrote: Like you're one of the only people I don't dislike on that wagon atm Palmar.
I like HF's plan of letting Vigi(s) do whatever the fuck they want tonight. Maybe we confirm one, maybe we force mafia's hand in roleblocking a Vigi over a RB.
if you think the wagon is bad, you should be voting the other.
we're lynching one of them or the other tonight. I don't really care which one. It makes more sense that Vivax is the mafia, but Toad made a bad play if he's town so I'm fine with lynching him too.
It's still possible that they're both town. I like HF's play. Let Vigi(s) do what they want, if mafia RB a vigi the tracker gets free reign, otherwise vigi(s) can confirm themselves (probably).
Uh, what?
First of all, I'm not convinced that raynpelikoneet's claim is truthful. Second, let's imagine it is truthful, and the vigilantes are both still alive, and raynpelikoneet wasn't roleblocked. I don't see how this helps us at all?
Please explain.
tracker tracks a vigi. They can see if they shoot someone or if they are roleblocked etc. This plan fails though if the mafia who CC'd is not the mafia vig
Ok, let's imagine that mafia roleblocks the town vigilante. If the tracker tracks the roleblocked vigilante, then town gets no information. If the tracker tracks the mafia, then as long as that mafia isn't carrying KP (reasonable assumption), then they won't get anything from that either.
If mafia is not putting rb or kp (kp is riskier due to probable medic in setup) on a tracker (assuming that he is), it is a huge risk for mafia, as he can essentially solve a big part of the game by himself. If mafia plays it safe they allow the vigi situation to resolve during the night.
I say let's put the ball in mafia's court. I have plenty of others I want to lynch outside of the two vigi wagons.
I am going to kick and scream for the rest of the game if you don't lynch Vivax right now
You'll be alive? Interesting.
Well I won't be lynched today I think. Thus I'll be around in n1. I think we can both agree that I won't make it past d2 no matter of alignment here, right?
My rest of the game isn't very long but I'll kick and scream
On March 21 2015 06:58 Superbia wrote: Like you're one of the only people I don't dislike on that wagon atm Palmar.
I like HF's plan of letting Vigi(s) do whatever the fuck they want tonight. Maybe we confirm one, maybe we force mafia's hand in roleblocking a Vigi over a RB.
if you think the wagon is bad, you should be voting the other.
we're lynching one of them or the other tonight. I don't really care which one. It makes more sense that Vivax is the mafia, but Toad made a bad play if he's town so I'm fine with lynching him too.
It's still possible that they're both town. I like HF's play. Let Vigi(s) do what they want, if mafia RB a vigi the tracker gets free reign, otherwise vigi(s) can confirm themselves (probably).
Uh, what?
First of all, I'm not convinced that raynpelikoneet's claim is truthful. Second, let's imagine it is truthful, and the vigilantes are both still alive, and raynpelikoneet wasn't roleblocked. I don't see how this helps us at all?
Please explain.
tracker tracks a vigi. They can see if they shoot someone or if they are roleblocked etc. This plan fails though if the mafia who CC'd is not the mafia vig
Ok, let's imagine that mafia roleblocks the town vigilante. If the tracker tracks the roleblocked vigilante, then town gets no information. If the tracker tracks the mafia, then as long as that mafia isn't carrying KP (reasonable assumption), then they won't get anything from that either.
If mafia is not putting rb or kp (kp is riskier due to probable medic in setup) on a tracker (assuming that he is), it is a huge risk for mafia, as he can essentially solve a big part of the game by himself. If mafia plays it safe they allow the vigi situation to resolve during the night.
I say let's put the ball in mafia's court. I have plenty of others I want to lynch outside of the two vigi wagons.
I am going to kick and scream for the rest of the game if you don't lynch Vivax right now
You'll be alive? Interesting.
Do you think rayn is the real tracker?
Sorry I havn't paid attention in that regard. I have absolutely no idea. Pretty sure Rayn is mafia so I'd say no based on that but the important thing right now is making sure Vivax is dead and not talking about rayn when Vivax is confirmed
On March 21 2015 05:57 Fecalfeast wrote: ls is mafia with toad, the plan is they are going to get vivax lynched and when he flips vig play the "oh no there must be 2 vigs" game
except that I've been saying that there is no way there are 2 vigs in this game.
I even went ahead and wrote out that you guys should lynch me no matter what if I ever get in this and tell people I fakeclaimed Vig as VT because I'm not doing that. I'm not going to back down on Vivax fakeclaiming either. There are no two townvigs in this game.
Vivax might be mafiavig who fakeclaimed to get his shot off though, which Palmar is conveniently ignoring to vote me based on "toad would just wait"... no I wouldn't
Ok so in the hypothetical situation where vivax flips vig, what would you say? You'd just afk and let yourself die the next day?
That's not possible, I am drax... Vivax was mafia before the claim and he's even more mafia now. There's no way he's going to flip town.
I shouldn't be saying this but okay let's walk through this: In the 99% chance of vivax flipping mafia I'll yell "told ya bitches!" while requesting medic protection so that mafia has to doublestack as well as RB me in the 1% chance of vivax flipping Town Not-Vig I'll be mad. Seriously mad. There is no scenario in which Vivax flips town-vig.
In the literally impossible scenario of you flipping townVig I'll tell people I'm sorry and that they need to lynch me as fast as possible to get over this mess and win starting by d3
On March 21 2015 07:34 rsoultin wrote: well, honestly, i don't think it's quite as simple as hf or bresh paint it
but it really just comes down to
not at all sure on vivax plus vig claim
vs
not at all sure on bm lol >< so whatever...kinda just going with my prior hf townread here and the minimal losses strategy...
like i wouldn't have been talking to vivax in the first place trying to get him to respond to me if i didn't think there was a possibility he could be town. he's not still trying to get toad lynched...i dunnae
it isn't. It only works if both of the targets are mafia
Let's say it's VigVivax and VigToad, I can do it both ways but let me just illustrate:
HF:Toad shoot rnd-Town HF:Toad shoot rnd-Mafia
VigVivax shoots rnd-Town the one I claimed to have shot, mafia roleblocks me, VigVivax claims to be roleblocked while he actually shot the towny and I was roleblocked.
On March 21 2015 07:34 rsoultin wrote: well, honestly, i don't think it's quite as simple as hf or bresh paint it
but it really just comes down to
not at all sure on vivax plus vig claim
vs
not at all sure on bm lol >< so whatever...kinda just going with my prior hf townread here and the minimal losses strategy...
like i wouldn't have been talking to vivax in the first place trying to get him to respond to me if i didn't think there was a possibility he could be town. he's not still trying to get toad lynched...i dunnae
it isn't. It only works if both of the targets are mafia
Let's say it's VigVivax and VigToad, I can do it both ways but let me just illustrate:
HF:Toad shoot rnd-Town HF:Vivax shoot rnd-Mafia
VigVivax shoots rnd-Town the one I claimed to have shot, mafia roleblocks me, VigVivax claims to be roleblocked while he actually shot the towny and I was roleblocked.
Actually all three have to be mafia for it to work out. BM + the two targets. If just one of them is town we're screwed and doing the same shit again tomorrow.
On March 21 2015 08:13 Vivax wrote: At the very least we suck up RBs -> if both town. At the very least mafia can't RB anyone else and the mafia vig can't shoot a townie? -> if one scum
At least I hope this is the case.
except that in the 0% chance of us both being town we don't suck up RBs because mafia will happily watch us shoot each other, but yeah awesome that you know I'll be roleblocked and try to make it sound like you will be as well...
I'm not going to listen to HF, Rayn or Palmar if they're going to make me shoot someone else. Period. Hell I'm more likely to listen to Artanis at this point, the guy I had down as mafiaread 24 hours ago... and VE is ... weird despite being town so take that as what it is.
Idk, you'd probably have to give me some pretty good damn reasoning to shoot someone other that Vivax at this point and I'm not sure if that's possible at all. Probably not.
On March 21 2015 08:20 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah we really should have lynched one of the vigs.
Whose idea was BM lynch? I had him as tentatively town, did he do something scummy? I refuse to read how it went down because I was here before it went down and I can only imagine how retarded it was in here at the time.
HFs idea
I take back my townread on him based on reading my post btw.
On March 21 2015 08:13 Vivax wrote: At the very least we suck up RBs -> if both town. At the very least mafia can't RB anyone else and the mafia vig can't shoot a townie? -> if one scum
At least I hope this is the case.
except that in the 0% chance of us both being town we don't suck up RBs because mafia will happily watch us shoot each other, but yeah awesome that you know I'll be roleblocked and try to make it sound like you will be as well...
I'm not going to listen to HF, Rayn or Palmar if they're going to make me shoot someone else. Period. Hell I'm more likely to listen to Artanis at this point, the guy I had down as mafiaread 24 hours ago... and VE is ... weird despite being town so take that as what it is.
Idk, you'd probably have to give me some pretty good damn reasoning to shoot someone other that Vivax at this point and I'm not sure if that's possible at all. Probably not.
I think there's an optimal play in this situation. And I want it to be optimal for town. So I'm open to suggestions. We have a claimed tracker and two vigis. Maybe both are town, maybe one is scum.
so pray for that 1% chance that I'm going to shoot HF in the dick
On March 21 2015 08:22 Vivax wrote: Toad can you give me an argument for you being so confident I can't be town? Cause I am and yet your argumentation is 100 % that I'm not.
You have been throwing shit at me for the last 5-6 hours before deadline being the biggest hypocrite I've ever seen. That's not just you being a hypocrite that's you throwing shit because you're going down (at that time) hoping that something will stick. Go back to page... I think 118, the one with the red letters about your different standards depending on wether or not it fits you.
You claimed Vig. I am a TownVig.
I would have said you're like 90% certain mafia before the claims. With the claim it's just really 99% certain. Too unlikely to happen. And the 1% was me admittting that you could be a fakeclaiming VT or different PR trying to get out of the lynch.
You even got me to CC and I'll be RB'ed now because of you... and you're not even dead
On March 21 2015 08:08 rsoultin wrote: well, claimed vigis shoot each other...it wasn't a bad suggestion
i doubt they'll mind lol ><
And the one that isn't mafia gets rbed and we end up wondering if they're just getting framed or not and waste another day on that.
stop perpetuating this bull shit, right now we have this info:
vivax claimed vig with like 2 hours to go???? toad claimed vig in response to vivax?????
could be 2 town vigis, could be mafia vigi and town vigi, could be whatever??? NO INFORMATION TO GO ON AT ALL
day 2 discussion: hey look people died, more info, MORE TALKING WHRE PEOPLE AREN'T IRRATIONAL TITS FULL OF ADRENALINE AT DEADLINE
people take stances, stances are GREAT
i also have a shit tonne of new scum reads based on this bm wagon now, there were SO MANY PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT IT AND JOINING AT SAME TIME <----------- classic mafia tell
what if I shoot you in the dick for starting this crap
On March 21 2015 08:32 Holyflare wrote: like seriously how the fuck is shooting each other a good idea????? let's clear up some reads and play ballsy and win the game, both claims seem pretty towny to me imo
vivax 2 hour claim - what's the fucking point cc - legit
Vivax was about to get lynched. If he didn't claim something he died. If he's mafia, that's the point - to not die. I don't know why you're dismissing this as possible.
comming from the only guy that voted me...
Damn it I should have never told you that I'm townreading you when I think you're mafia and mafiareading you when I think your town...
On March 21 2015 08:30 ExO_ wrote: RB should block vivax. toad can shoot him then, and if by some inconceivable miracle he flips town we kill toad.
pssst are you talking to a possible scum RB here? o.0
No? why don't you go lynch some random BM instead of solving this chaotic mess? Was such a horrible idea.
And now HF wants both to live, causing more chaos. playing Russian roulette would be better than listening to him
exo, stop discrediting me, explain how this is causing more chaos, be rational with me, don't baselessly defame me
We had 3 blue claims. 2 vigi. combined with the irb mechanic in this game I refuse to believe there are 2 vigis. So we have somebody lying. Now we're going into n1 not knowing who it was. And there's a real possibility that one ends up RBed. What if the real one gets RBe, and we go into d2 with both alive? Now what do we do we still dont know who lied.
This line of reasoning doesn't make sense as Toad says he's shooting me in 99% of the cases, which means 100 %.
It went down to 95% 4% chance I'm shooting HF 1% chance I'll get braintumor and somehow listen to people to not shoot you and instead shoot... idk Rayn
On March 21 2015 08:54 rsoultin wrote: >> dude i'd actually be sooooo fine with a rayn shot ><
the good thing about Rayn shot is that if he flips mafia you can still just lynch Vivax d2 for harddefending him and trying to get me lynched through all of this.
On March 21 2015 08:30 ExO_ wrote: RB should block vivax. toad can shoot him then, and if by some inconceivable miracle he flips town we kill toad.
pssst are you talking to a possible scum RB here? o.0
No? why don't you go lynch some random BM instead of solving this chaotic mess? Was such a horrible idea.
And now HF wants both to live, causing more chaos. playing Russian roulette would be better than listening to him
exo, stop discrediting me, explain how this is causing more chaos, be rational with me, don't baselessly defame me
We had 3 blue claims. 2 vigi. combined with the irb mechanic in this game I refuse to believe there are 2 vigis. So we have somebody lying. Now we're going into n1 not knowing who it was. And there's a real possibility that one ends up RBed. What if the real one gets RBe, and we go into d2 with both alive? Now what do we do we still dont know who lied.
This line of reasoning doesn't make sense as Toad says he's shooting me in 99% of the cases, which means 100 %.
What if rb believes you (stupidly) and blocks toad? or worse there is a mafia RB? its pretty obvious how "this line of logic" works
just don't block any of the vigi shots if you are town...?
look even if there is a MAFIA rb we direct BOTH shots to people of OUR choosing, worst case mafia rb's the one shooting mafia and let's a town die but that town will be a decision WE have made because we think they are scummy. We effectively gain another lynch here at night
any of the vigis that don't follow this plan are automatically claiming mafia because it should be more than obvious there is a very real chance there is 2 town vigi's since kp on vigis was changed in op and balanced for more people
toad at the preesnt moment is claiming mafia
you just called me and vivax town a couple minutes ago. You're just afraid to get shot in the dick and trying to make me shoot rayn by scare-tactics.
On March 21 2015 09:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: vivax shoots toad toad shoots vivax i track one of them
if mafia roleblocks the real vigi we lynch the other one (mafia will prolly kill the real vigi anyways, and the fake vigi will deliver). If mafia roleblocks me and the real vigi dies, the fake vigi dies aswell.
profit 100% <3 get rekt toad. medic protect vivax please.
medic:
Gamora’s abilities allow her to select a player to sequester each night. The target will be unable to take any action. However, sequestration will protect from any and all KP.
give me someone I'm supposed to shoot and I'll shoot him if I agree with the read, Mafia is going to RB me or not depending on the guy actually being mafia or not,
Vivax is going to shoot me, claim RB and that I did some weird shit that noone understands becaue I'm already dead at that point.
You guys lynch Vivax d2.
We lost one day because of this bullshit but we still get Vivax at some point. Just don't let this ever happen again. If shit goes down south don't believe any funny claim and pull through no matter what.
On March 21 2015 09:25 Toadesstern wrote: whatever...
give me someone I'm supposed to shoot and I'll shoot him if I agree with the read, Mafia is going to RB me or not depending on the guy actually being mafia or not,
Vivax is going to shoot me, claim RB and that I did some weird shit that noone understands becaue I'm already dead at that point.
You guys lynch Vivax d2.
We lost one day because of this bullshit but we still get Vivax at some point. Just don't let this ever happen again. If shit goes down south don't believe any funny claim and pull through no matter what.
If I get crap for backpedaling on this you guys suck,
I just watched Shirobacko 23th episode like 45 minutes ago to calm down a little while sporadically pausing and getting in here (doublemonitors ftw!). Manly tears were had. Very manly tears: http://a.pomf.se/wppzoa.webm
TL;DR Sup guys I'm a DT, it's D2 and I've got a red check on Gonzaw, but let's lynch the mayor (Marv) who succesfully lynched mafia d1 instead because we can just go for the big fish and Gonzaw (red check) already used his joat powers after all. After lynching Marv we should probably lynch Toad, the sheriff who ended up being sheriff with exactly as many votes as my red check Gonzaw, just comming in as second because he had 4 votes sooner. Once those two are dead we can lynch my red check and 5 other guys.
mafiareads.... honestly I am confused as to what happened and don't want to put a finger on it before having slept and thought about what actually happened here.
I stay by that Vivax is mafia, I'm willing to shoot some other mafia though if that means you lynch him once I flip assuming the read on the other guy is pretty damn good.
On March 21 2015 10:11 Vivax wrote: And when I shot you it was cause we planned it that way. The game was already lost, so don't act like I did it on a whim without your consent.
I told you that we're 100% not using a mafia vig to shoot a mafia no matter what the situation. I woke up dead without giving any consent whatsoever. Yeah the game was lost but you were mad that I was bullying you and telling you what to do in the QT, that was it.
On March 22 2015 04:29 Holyflare wrote: you know what' going to happen, here's my prediction:
I'm a big mafia threat. Toad is posing that he scum reads me so that when his shot goes off at night and I die, massive mafia threat (me) gets eliminated it just looks like he's a vig shooting his target. Really though, he's probably mafia.
actually screw that, I'm shooting Onegu instead to make HF feel more at ease.
I'm honeslty not sure if HF is just raging right now and has a blackout because of that or what's going on. Or maybe it's reverse psychology and he IS thinking trying to help me
On March 22 2015 04:43 Holyflare wrote: vig claimers:
vivax: has tried to solve game all night + actually gave last reads yesterday + helpful toad: yelled a lot, afk'd all night, wants to shoot claimed masons before any other blue claims
if one of them is mafia i'm pretty sure on who i'd put my bets on
I'm sorry, like I said I had a rough day. Little Sister got home in tears with troubles and that was more important than TL for me today and thus no posting from me. I understand that you're mad but you need to calm down for sec and kickstart your brain or give it a rest and come back 30 minutes when you calmed down a little.
On March 22 2015 04:48 Holyflare wrote: why are you throwing away the plan and not discussing who is mafia?????? why not say about anything that happened at night
On March 22 2015 04:43 Holyflare wrote: vig claimers:
vivax: has tried to solve game all night + actually gave last reads yesterday + helpful toad: yelled a lot, afk'd all night, wants to shoot claimed masons before any other blue claims
if one of them is mafia i'm pretty sure on who i'd put my bets on
I'm sorry, like I said I had a rough day. Little Sister got home in tears with troubles and that was more important than TL for me today and thus no posting from me. I understand that you're mad but you need to calm down for sec and kickstart your brain or give it a rest and come back 30 minutes when you calmed down a little.
You are free to believe me. I think I made it pretty damn obvious that I care about the game the last 48 hours and I wouldn't just go afk by choice as either town or mafia. Can we at least agree on that? I just told you who's mafia, Onegu and I just got on. Still reading. That's why Iasked if there was something that I missed and wether there were any suggestions and went on to say that I'll shoot Onegu if there were none.
On March 22 2015 05:04 Vivax wrote: Anyway whether Toad shoots me or HF he's going to be dead the next day so I guess it sorts itself out.
Whatever happens a lot of people have an idea on who is scum and if those people die then scum should get wrecked, in theory. In theory cause there's always the chance somebody does his own thing instead of listening to dead townies.
On March 22 2015 05:04 Vivax wrote: Anyway whether Toad shoots me or HF he's going to be dead the next day so I guess it sorts itself out.
Whatever happens a lot of people have an idea on who is scum and if those people die then scum should get wrecked, in theory. In theory cause there's always the chance somebody does his own thing instead of listening to dead townies.
I'm not going to shoot HF, wtf is wrong with you.
Shooting Onegu is equal to shooting HF, except that given his low participation it's going to cause less collateral damage.
It takes away the tinfoil theory that the mason claim is fake but that's about it. I suspect scum to be elsewhere.
nah man. Onegu is totally scum. But yeah less collateral damage is always good.
On March 22 2015 05:58 Toadesstern wrote: yeah exo is actually a good shot. Not my shot because I'm on Onegu but a good shot for sure.
I said VE is town as well @Artanis.
Can you explain why?
Have been doing this for the last 5 or so games with VE because I've always been wrong when trying to read him and it's just working:
If you think VE is town he is mafia. If you think VE is mafia he is town.
Don't bother any further unless you actually have any hard evidence.
So you actually think VE is mafia. You see, this 'defense' of his doesn't really help me much in actually determining his alignment.
I know. I'm never going to defend or try to lynch him based on that. But it works for me so I'm fine with it. VE does a lot of weird shit that just doesn't makse sense and I'm always stuck on that trying to figure out what's going on otherwise
Okay Eden you're the only one I'm trusting right now. I'm not going to shoot VE. Period. Take that as me being serious. Do I shoot Onegu or do I listen to people?
On March 22 2015 06:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote: How about Toad shoots slam and Vivax shoots VE instead? That way Toad can abdicate responsibility for shooting VE.
I'm not asking you. I'm asking Eden, the only person I can trust right now!
Fuck it, decision has been made. I'm pulling through, you're going to hate me, mafia will flip. We're all going to be happy. I've got this. The carry will be strong.
On March 22 2015 06:33 Toadesstern wrote: Okay Eden you're the only one I'm trusting right now. I'm not going to shoot VE. Period. Take that as me being serious. Do I shoot Onegu or do I listen to people?
listen to people
shoot slam since vivax hasn't confirmed he will and slam is a good shot
I spend like 2 hours to write this up and I'm pretty damn sure Onegu is mafia though
fuck you guys. Your fault for not lynching mafia yesterday. I'm doing what you guys tell me to do, it's not going to work, everyone's going to be mad and we're not getting mafia shot. No idea how people can be this stupid but if you want me to play along despite it being fucking bad play FINE, I'll shoot Slam... probably
I don't even care enough to put more effort into this at this point... just lynch him tomorrow and we see what happens with Slam tonight
I'm back and first things first: Sorry I wasn't around in the last.... 16 or so hours. Things happened, I didn't exactly have the greatest day over here and I figured I did enough d1 to afk for a while during night and ... let's keep it at that. If someone here honestly wants to push the idea (I think it was Vivax or VE?) that I'm scummy for not caring during the night... whatever can't argue that in my position atm but I think it'd be a horrible argument after looking at my previous posts. I have at the very least shown that I do care and I wouldn't just go afk by choice as neither town nor mafia in this case so chances are I actually had something else more important going on.
That being said reason I'm making this post is to get some thoughtprocess in from my end of the line again and where I'm at because even if I had had time on my hands I would have flat out refused to give my open reads to the thread (that includes mafia!) during the night when I'm a claimed vig... This post however I'm 100%, completly open with no shenanigans in here, which I'll assume people won't like in this case either but anyways, here we go.
So the plan was to shoot Vivax while agreeing to shoot whoever you guys tell me to shoot. I know you might be in a tricky situation having to make a pick between Vivax and me but I'm not. I have my own alignment, which makes things a lot easier for me. The reason for doing so is that if you guys tell me who to shoot I'll be 100% roleblocked if it's a mafiatarget (assuming mafia has an RB but I'll get into that later) anyways so I won't be able to shoot. The only possible outcome for shooting mafia to begin with is me agreeing to shoot a townie convincingly, Mafia thus deciding they won't RB me and I shoot Vivax anyways. That's essentially the reason I'm telling you about this right now: I just didn't have the time to do the "convincingly" part because look at paragraph 1 and this way idk.. not exactly feeling confident about my plan without putting in a decent amount of work first but there's no turning back here with 3 hours to deadline. Thus I at least give you this post! And as I write that I just made this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480042-tl-mafia-lxx-guardians-of-the-galaxy?page=187#3733 post. That's what I mean with "don't think that's convincingly" ///GOD DAMN IT I'M STUPID... why did I call the shot on HF instead of Onegu... HF is probably a legit shot for mafia and that's just confusion... should have mentioned Onegu instead from the get-go. FML I'm stupid... sorry... I should have thought this through one more second before pressing "send", just thought HF is the more obvious townie and didn't think about me maybe getting in troubles because of it because duh... I'm town right?...
So like I said, the situation's a bit easier for me because I do know my own alignment. I do know it's not a 50/50 between Vivax and me. And no there are no two townVigs. They're named after specific people (or so it seems, I never watched the show). That'd be like arguing there might be mutliple poison Ivy's in Arkham City or multiple jokers or multiple Batmans. It's just not going to happen. Vivax is not Drax. One more thing about roles and role-balance here: The set-up has to make sense. To every role there's one or more pseudo-counterroles. If you have a cop in the game mafia is more likely to have a framer. If you have a Vig in the game mafia is more likely to have an RB or medic (though usually RB as that's the JOAT for mafia in this matter). Right? So chances are pretty damn good mafia actually has an RB considering that there are no mafia-medics.
One more thing I mentioned earlier in that regard but didn't want to outright say in thread earlier. I asked for Cop on me at the beginning of the night (I think I at least ended up writing it out and not just thinking about it?) because: I don't want a possible cop to claim. If he checks me, sees I'm green we go on like nothing happened. If he checks Vivax and finds him to be red chances are high we're making a cop claim for an already obvious lynch because "guys guys I got a red check on Vivax!"... which we don't want, thus me asking to be checked myself rather than Vivax. Problem here being powerrole balance. I think it's really really really likely for mafia to have a framer if we have a cop, especially if we have 1 Vig on top of that. 1 RB is not enough to counter 1 cop and 1 vig. So IF we do have a cop mafia is bound to have a framer. I don't think it's a hard decision what to frame for mafia in this situation... either defensively frame Vivax hoping for a cop to check him and yell "checkeed vivax, he's green. Lynch Toad!" or the other way around on me making me red and hoping cop checks me like I asked. Thing is, that's a null-tell either way. Literally 50% chance of the check to be correct and 50% chance of it to be exactly the opposite. Actually found the post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480042-tl-mafia-lxx-guardians-of-the-galaxy?page=161#3209 So if some one you want to misinterpret that into "Toad's scared of being cop-checked!"... I don't think I would have made that post if that'd be the case. I just came to the conclusion that the post was stupid
As I'm writing this for copy&paste later it's 4 hours to deadline and I'll probably refrain from posting until then. And I'm sure I'm going to get shit for this. Massive amounts of shit but this to me is best play here. Wether or not we get a repeat of D1 is based on wether or not I get RB'ed or not as well as wether or not Vivax is shooting me and again... I'm perfectly aware of the fact that from your pov it could just be the other way around, it could be Vivax that's town who get's RBed and it boils down to wether I shoot vivax or not but it just doesn't matter: I'm either killing mafia here and now because you gave me a towntarget or I got RB'ed. I literally don't see a world in which Vivax is townVig with the knowledge that I am Drax myself. I'm giving him the 1% chance to be some other kind of stupid townie with some convoluted plan that fakeclaimed Vig to get out of the lynch but really that's it. He's not a townVig. If you gave Vivax a towntarget he's going to hit that to show how he played along nice and friendly. If you're giving him a mafiatarget he's not shooting and claiming to be rb'ed himself hoping for double RB claim because I got RB'ed as well. There's no way in which this plan works out the way it's intended and I'm banking everything I have here on the fact that antagonizing everyone here is the right play indeed and HF wanted Vivax + me to deal with it ourselves from the get-go just looking at who'd actually have the balls and go ahead to do so... Yes I'm certainly a guy that plays with balls when rolling mafia but I do not think I'd antagonize every single guy in this game with this post and my actions tonight as mafia. I'd take the easy road as mafia, claim I shot who I was supposed to shoot while claiming I got RBed myself if the target is mafia, pulling through if the target is town. And yes you can say "but Toad, how can we know that isn't exactly what you're doing right now".
That's the reason for this post. I would not tell you about this. I would quietly giggle, not give you people the information that mafia!Toad has and just be done with it instead of posting this huge wall of a million reasons to get mad at me for doing my own thing. Vivax on the other hand has been completly open on his ideas and reads throughout the night and while that might sound awesome because that's always cool right? It is incredibly anti-town. There's no reason whatsoever to openly explain to mafia wether or not you want to follow the plan, there's no reason whatsoever to openly explain in detail who you think is mafia during night if you're a fucking claimed vig. You're giving mafia info about wether or not they need to RB you while town might appreciate the infodump but you might as well do it later and just take the heat for a second. Vivax isn't doing that becase he knows he's not going to be RB'ed and he wants to play along to not get any heat. ///edited in later". I asked him something in that direction in the thread and ever since he's apparently realized it himself and is doing all this crappy "MAYBE I'M DOING THIS, MAYBE I'M DOING THAT. WHO KNOWS". That does not count, he only did that after I pointed it out to him...
Iif you guys honestly think it's in towns best interest to play with open hands during the night with a claimed vig there's something horribly wrong with you but hey, maybe I'll at least wifom mafia into making a hard decision if Slam is town
Or maybe I'll actually get shot who knows... I'm out
inb4 people asking why I posted this instead of waiting another 50 minutes and just pull through: HF is annoying and bad. Yes that's literally all the reason here. Have it your way HF, it's not going to work.
The vig is called by name. It's like someone claiming Batman in Arkham city and someone counterclaiming and people are "wait what if we have two fucking batmans"
On March 22 2015 07:14 Holyflare wrote: and toad it's impossible for mafia to have 2 rb's unless they rng'd the orb and then also rng'd rb so one of your shots is going through regardless
what if we have 3 dead people, none of the two targets, both vivax and I claim to be RB'ed?
It's not about what will happen but what we'll get to see
The reason for doing so is that if you guys tell me who to shoot I'll be 100% roleblocked if it's a mafiatarget (assuming mafia has an RB but I'll get into that later) anyways so I won't be able to shoot. The only possible outcome for shooting mafia to begin with is me agreeing to shoot a townie convincingly, Mafia thus deciding they won't RB me and I shoot Vivax anyways.
On March 22 2015 07:14 Holyflare wrote: and toad it's impossible for mafia to have 2 rb's unless they rng'd the orb and then also rng'd rb so one of your shots is going through regardless
what if we have 3 dead people, none of the two targets, both vivax and I claim to be RB'ed?
It's not about what will happen but what we'll get to see
um you might want to rethink that........? how is that even possible because if one of you is town and got rb'd and the other is mafia fake claiming rb then it's definitely confirmed there is one mafia between you and then it's just a 1 for 1 trade regardless which is more than cool with me
but i'm still living in a world with 2 potential town vigis
Vivax even got in the thread claiming he might not shoot after all to save his bullet... that's literally the most anti-town thing you could do. What if he claims just that?
On March 22 2015 07:14 Holyflare wrote: and toad it's impossible for mafia to have 2 rb's unless they rng'd the orb and then also rng'd rb so one of your shots is going through regardless
what if we have 3 dead people, none of the two targets, both vivax and I claim to be RB'ed?
It's not about what will happen but what we'll get to see
um you might want to rethink that........? how is that even possible because if one of you is town and got rb'd and the other is mafia fake claiming rb then it's definitely confirmed there is one mafia between you and then it's just a 1 for 1 trade regardless which is more than cool with me
but i'm still living in a world with 2 potential town vigis
Vivax even got in the thread claiming he might not shoot after all to save his bullet... that's literally the most anti-town thing you could do. What if he claims just that?
i will lynch anyone that "saves" their bullet
he also said he's not willing to tell you what he did with his shot d2 because that would give info to mafia about wether or not he still has it. While having claimed he might still have it.
Situation: Vivax says nothing, I say I shot slam. Slam is still alive. What do we do?
On March 22 2015 07:51 Holyflare wrote: Not if both targets are mafia!
Then they could still just let slam die and rb toad shooting not slam and we'd have no idea who toad was shooting, nor does scum so it'd be a coinflip either way.
it's fiiiiine. I don't even know who I'm shooting myself. No kidding
I call bullshit on Vivax changing his shot to slam btw. The messages from Artanis and HF started 15 minutes piror to deadline with the final decision being 60 secs prior to deadline.
But hey, Vivax is apparently town according to you
Please forward all night actions to Blazinghand and myself at least 20 minutes prior to the daypost.
I did not get to change my shot... I shot VE
Why would you have wanted to change your shot, and what would have the real target been?
I was on Vivax -> Slam -> VE -> (Slam -> VE -> Slam)
in brackets what didn't count anymore. I said I'm not going to shoot VE and do my thing (shoot Vivax) got mad at HF, took a break for 5-10 minutes and in the end listened to Eden telling me to shoot VE despite my weak townread on him.
I have honestly no idea what's going on right now... gimme a sec
Why are there only 2 dead people if I shot VE? Mafia would not doublestack HF if the only protective role town can have is a jailer that protects from ALL KP and not just one... soooo mafia got roleblocked / shot into protection / shot into VET?
well... just don't claim other blue roles for other people pretty please. Unless you checked Vivax and he's not actually Vig, that would be nice information to have
Soooo. you didn't kill and you didn't RB. So either a track or a role-check I'd assume because there would be no confirmation on the first two, right?
I'd say you take a good look at that person's filter. Yes checking HF would have been stupid. If whoever it is however is a stupid person and had a massive mafia boner on HS I'm not really too sure... Like what if... let's say its ExO and idk what his stance on HF actually was but filterdive shows us that he really thought HF was mafia.
So do that. If the person you tracked wasn't scumreading HF he's confirmed mafia for sure and even if he did...probably still mafia
On March 22 2015 08:40 Breshke wrote: Also it isnt likely because im fairly sure trefel is town but it is POSSIBLE he is scum and used the orb and is just making shit up.
He's basically claiming a red check unless the person we lynch flips as an alignment cop. It'd be a 1 for 1 trade and that's terrible for mafia.
yeah that. Pretty much same reason I'm looking so fabulous.
On March 22 2015 08:44 Breshke wrote: Also do people think mafia double stacked HF or stacked with a "vigi" on VE. I'm missing a lot of pages but i don't see a reason why mafia would have shot VE other than to help/throw doubt on a vigi
I think I mentioned that before but the most reasonable assumption is probably shot into protection or into VET
It COULD be my wifom was strong and they actually shot VE as well lol. Hell even I didn't know who I was shooting until I got confirmation on it
On March 22 2015 08:53 rsoultin wrote: nah, honestly i think it's best that i just claim right here tbh, cause it helps shed light on the night actions
i JKd Onegu, and the breadcrumb was so damn obvious they'll prob shoot me tonight anyway lol
Don't believe. Like why wouldn't you protect HF if you thought we were masons as he was the much better shot...
Oh right, this is actually a good point.
that IS actually a good point. HF claimed to be mason after all, it's not going to get any better for a Jailer to find a target, will it? Likely town, a VET (not the role, just a good player) and the guy has no active night powers as masons if I see this correctly... why would you not medic HF?
On March 22 2015 09:05 Vivax wrote: I feel extremely bothered by how Toad claims to have flip flopped so heavily on his choices and then tries to say that I wasn't supposed to shoot Alakaslam based on stuff said in the thread.
I made my decision 2 h before deadline, without sending an action in previously and also never wavering from my decision.
well... weren't you supposed to shoot VE though? HF/Eden suggested we swap it around because I said I think VE is town so you'd shoot VE and I'd shoot slam.
idk tbh it was pretty confusing and the fact that I havn't brought it up anymore other than the first reaction to it should indicated to you that I don't consider it to be a thing anymore and just that, my first reaction to it.
if rayn is scum do i get awesome credit? i should get awesome credit (he's probably scum you know) ^^
if rayn is scum on top of that, that means the d1 votes are all useless because mafia voted whatever they wanted to vote, implying all of BM. Vivax and me are town.
I had some 4 or 5 votes at some point as well, including Rayn's vote and he pushed me really hard.... so what's that if we now know there was mafia on Vivax as well as most likely on BM because he already flipped town?
We'd probably have to scrap everything at this point and assume we went wrong bigtime somewhere early during d1 with a lot of reads if mafia tried to push all three of Vivax, BM and me.
if rayn is scum do i get awesome credit? i should get awesome credit (he's probably scum you know) ^^
if rayn is scum on top of that, that means the d1 votes are all useless because mafia voted whatever they wanted to vote, implying all of BM. Vivax and me are town.
I had some 4 or 5 votes at some point as well, including Rayn's vote and he pushed me really hard.... so what's that if we now know there was mafia on Vivax as well as most likely on BM because he already flipped town?
We'd probably have to scrap everything at this point and assume we went wrong bigtime somewhere early during d1 with a lot of reads if mafia tried to push all three of Vivax, BM and me.
Or town pushed town all day and mafia just joined random wagons.
which is kind of my point of calling it useless. Yes they might have joined random wagons but there's no mafiaagenda behind why they joined it if it literally didn't matter to them because all 3 were town.
if rayn is scum do i get awesome credit? i should get awesome credit (he's probably scum you know) ^^
if rayn is scum on top of that, that means the d1 votes are all useless because mafia voted whatever they wanted to vote, implying all of BM. Vivax and me are town.
I had some 4 or 5 votes at some point as well, including Rayn's vote and he pushed me really hard.... so what's that if we now know there was mafia on Vivax as well as most likely on BM because he already flipped town?
We'd probably have to scrap everything at this point and assume we went wrong bigtime somewhere early during d1 with a lot of reads if mafia tried to push all three of Vivax, BM and me.
Are you still scumreading Vivax here?
not really... I mean it depends. It just makes no sense no matter how I look at it right now.
if rayn is scum do i get awesome credit? i should get awesome credit (he's probably scum you know) ^^
if rayn is scum on top of that, that means the d1 votes are all useless because mafia voted whatever they wanted to vote, implying all of BM. Vivax and me are town.
I had some 4 or 5 votes at some point as well, including Rayn's vote and he pushed me really hard.... so what's that if we now know there was mafia on Vivax as well as most likely on BM because he already flipped town?
We'd probably have to scrap everything at this point and assume we went wrong bigtime somewhere early during d1 with a lot of reads if mafia tried to push all three of Vivax, BM and me.
?? mafia would be trying not to get ls lynched if ls is mafia? the main counterwagon to vivax at the time?
On March 22 2015 09:44 Toadesstern wrote: (go read for yourself)
I will when I get home but Im not right now. So im asking so I can keep up with what people are saying in the thread right now
Vivax claims to have shot Slam, Slam is still alive, Vivax claims to be RB'ed I claimed to have shot VE, VE flipped town, he is ded HF most likely (like 99% certainly) got shot by Mafia rsoultin claimed protection on Onegu
On March 22 2015 09:44 Toadesstern wrote: (go read for yourself)
I will when I get home but Im not right now. So im asking so I can keep up with what people are saying in the thread right now
Vivax claims to have shot Slam, Slam is still alive, Vivax claims to be RB'ed I claimed to have shot VE, VE flipped town, he is ded HF most likely (like 99% certainly) got shot by Mafia rsoultin claimed protection on Onegu
Did I miss something we got in the last 3 hours?
LS basically confirmed mafia aswell
I knew I forgot something... yes LS was tracked to HF
On March 22 2015 09:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Toad is also town because LS forgot him and VE in his reads.
we're running out of people that can be mafia here. That's a good thing though!
thoughts on where you disagree?
Be happy I made Vivax from KILL IT WITH FIRE to null. My ego isn't able to cope with more than that right now Slam I think looks really bad atm, especially if you think Vivax was town who got roleblocked and should probably be the next lynch after LS. Exo still looks bad imo. I know you guys disagree with my Palmar read but that's still a thing. I changed him back to orange because the entire theory with Palmar swapping around from Vivax to BM to save Vivax doesn't work anymore. Breshke I still havn't bothered to read. Rayn I feel like shouldn't be a topic right now with all the possible assumptions going on until we at least have an LS flip.
On March 22 2015 09:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Toad is also town because LS forgot him and VE in his reads.
we're running out of people that can be mafia here. That's a good thing though!
thoughts on where you disagree?
Be happy I made Vivax from KILL IT WITH FIRE to null. My ego isn't able to cope with more than that right now Slam I think looks really bad atm, especially if you think Vivax was town who got roleblocked and should probably be the next lynch after LS. Exo still looks bad imo. I know you guys disagree with my Palmar read but that's still a thing. I changed him back to orange because the entire theory with Palmar swapping around from Vivax to BM to save Vivax doesn't work anymore. Breshke I still havn't bothered to read. Rayn I feel like shouldn't be a topic right now with all the possible assumptions going on until we at least have an LS flip.
anything you disagree with or want to chime in?
Yes, I should be dark green by now. Look at what I've been doing today and my filter size for gods sake.
yeah I changed you just now with that last post you just ninja'ed me with that literally has the same people on it list as the ones I got
On March 22 2015 10:05 Trfel wrote: Why did you put Onegu as extremely confident town?
Because he's a mason and I don't believe he's fakeclaiming.
yeah but it might be a thing to reduce him back to "town" rather than "pretty damn sure he's town" with HF flipping VT. I still believe his claim and think it's really unlikely for him to be mafia but it's not as impossible as it was just 3 hours ago.
On March 22 2015 10:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Can you tell me why you have a light townread on SL btw Toad?
I didn't like any of the early reasoning for people voting him and thought he's been lynchbait ever since. Felt pretty confident that there were mafias who tried to dump a vote on an easy target early on. Havn't actually gone back to check if that makes sense with what we know now though. I'll do that.
On March 22 2015 10:05 Trfel wrote: Why did you put Onegu as extremely confident town?
Because he's a mason and I don't believe he's fakeclaiming.
Why would you ever not believe that Onegu is fake-claiming, especially after the Holyflare flip?
To be honest, I kind of doubted the mason claim even before Holyflare flipped...
a mason is super stupid to fakeclaim as mafia. You don't just fakeclaim yourself, you make another mafia fakeclaim together with you and if one of you gets outed both die.
I assume that was the reasoning behind HF going along and reading Onegu so strongly town that he went along with the claim?
There was a resistance game. I played in it, HF played in it, Marv played in it. Not exactly recently but not 2 years ago either.
Someone remember it? BH fakeclaimed moving with pictures of his flat with pics of him packing stuff and all. I'm bad at searching games on TL and that's really important right now. Someone know the name or just remember the game?
so yeah I still think SL gets a slight townread from me for that. I can totally understand people getting angry at him and voting him really short because he's stupid like I did for a very short period... but honestly that's it. HF and Eden unvoted him pretty early as well and slam + superbia I don't really like on him.
That's the kind of people that would get away with some random vote like this.
nah I thought ritoky was SL and all I remember is getting super angry about two people in Cell-1 and Cell-2 and voting them instead of the claimed mafias we had in BH and ninjabunnies just because I was so angry about the other ones...
My sleep schedule is really fucked up right now But I have a final on the 30th and will probably have to tone down a little like 27th up to 30th so yeah the sooner the better.
go read Breshke and tell me what you think of him in the next 24 hours if you want to help. I'm very likely to either not read him at all and tell you so or lie to you and tell you I've read his filter while just banking on a gutread on him
On March 22 2015 10:53 Damdred wrote: Which btw Rsoultin, good job playing as normal even though you are blue to many times people who are blue try to play to low key and I like that you just played normally even though you claimed at a bad time.
Also I wanted to bring this up yesterday around the time but I got distracted at home. Rayn is probable scum, someone said yesterday that Rayn claimed under 0 pressure basically. This just isn't true about that time Rsoultin and myself were talking about me moving to Rayn which would give him the vote lead at that time or the momentum going back his way.
I think it was a bit more pressure on rayn then we initially thought in context? if that makes sense and it kept the votes going on complete town wagons on vivax at that point it seems. I need to fact check that a bit
at the very least it shows that Rayn and I can't be mafia together if there's still people thinking I'm possible mafia. I mean Rayn + mafia!Toad already makes no sense based on how much he was pushing me instead of Vivax all day long but people could argue that was bussing. With the claim as well as mine that's out of the window. No way would mafia have claimed 2 people there lol
yeah ExO or Slam look like good lynches for d3 right now, superbia slightly behind in 3rd place.
But with this new information it's not as much set in stone as we thought, need to make sure we don't mess up and it's 4am over here... so I'll end it here and try to pick it up tomorrow.
It's safe to assume that Vivax was in fact roleblocked, and that he is in fact a town vigilante.
My question is, why didn't mafia kill the tracker (raynpelikoneet)? I suppose they could have roleblocked him, but two roleblockers seems strange for mafia. Killing Onegu instead of claimed tracker raynpelikoneet seems particularly strange, especially given that mafia killed Holyflare, the other part of the supposed mason pair.
So if onegu and rayn arnt mason they are mafia.
This means that rso did not get a save.
This means it is very likely toad is mafia because either mafia double stacked HF when there was no reason too. Or mafia also shot VE. I still haven't read a lot of what happend in the night and probs wont get to but I cant think why mafia would do that other than his PR claim
Also a chance mafia hit a vet but idk how likely that is
except that that would mean Onegu, Rayn, Toad are three mafias that claimed d1? And bussed each other because rayn was going after me pretty damn hard all game long.... There's literally no way I can be mafia with rayn
On March 22 2015 14:49 Toadesstern wrote: We're going to change that order a little once this day is over. At least one in there is town and I have not yet figured out which one
Ok nvm. Don't go back to bed. Whatcha got
can't tell before the day is over. Make sure to poke me endlessly when this day reaches deadline so that I don't forget about it. Probably poke Artanis and tell him to poke me as well.
On March 22 2015 14:49 Toadesstern wrote: We're going to change that order a little once this day is over. At least one in there is town and I have not yet figured out which one
LOL
give it your all to prove to me that you're the townie in there! I believe in you!
I agree. Your points on Slam are the weakest and I'd like to have him last as well. The fact that Vivax apparently shot him and got rb'ed is the only reason I'm not kicking him out of that list tbh
I'd guess it's between those two. I don't think it's actually 2 townies in the list. That's super unlikely just a possibility after all that has to be assessed when figuring out the correct grade of yolo we're going for on d3.
On March 22 2015 15:21 Toadesstern wrote: I'd guess it's between those two. I don't think it's actually 2 townies in the list. That's super unlikely just a possibility after all that has to be assessed when figuring out the correct grade of yolo we're going for on d3.
On March 22 2015 15:17 Toadesstern wrote: I agree. Your points on Slam are the weakest and I'd like to have him last as well. The fact that Vivax apparently shot him and got rb'ed is the only reason I'm not kicking him out of that list tbh
Toad and Vivax probably both scum I have been suspicious of that since last time I was in the thread
Vivax somehow doesn't kill me and toad somehow thinks VE kill is smart
Bullshit both were scum kills there is no vig
yeah.... no. Even I'm going to call Vivax town by now. What has the world come to
On March 22 2015 15:17 Toadesstern wrote: I agree. Your points on Slam are the weakest and I'd like to have him last as well. The fact that Vivax apparently shot him and got rb'ed is the only reason I'm not kicking him out of that list tbh
Toad and Vivax probably both scum I have been suspicious of that since last time I was in the thread
Vivax somehow doesn't kill me and toad somehow thinks VE kill is smart
Bullshit both were scum kills there is no vig
yeah.... no. Even I'm going to call Vivax town by now. What has the world come to
Of course yoh would
I was pretty damn close to getting Vivax lynched on d1 I'd say. Did you think about that one?
Sup guys, your savior has finally woken up and is here to tell you what I solved last night because apparently stuff happened:
Rayn is not a mason Neither is Onegu
The lynchlist is LightningStrike, Rayn Next we figure out wether Onegu is fakeclaiming to draw shots to him as a VT/VET. Would make sense given how angry he was after HF was killed and how vehemently he called bullshit on the protection on him. On the other hand him going along when this plan of his to get shot (assuming he's town) clearly isn't working isn't making any sense. There's no point to get this confusion
So after those two there's 3 mafia in ExO, Slam, superbia, Palmar, Onegu.
I said we need to figure out how yolo we want to be because that's still only 2 ML in worstcase scenario and I was perfectly fine playing along until at least the night to see if maybe, just maybe Onegu does get shot, thus me stating that I won't tell you guys yet.
There could be a legit case where Rayn and Onegu are actually mafia together and are really desperate right now because I mentioned that I figured something out hinting heavily at 2 people in Eden's list that might be town (and thus might be replaced with two other people, gosh who could that have been) and thus we have this chaos right now. We'll have to see
- Host wifom dictates there's at least one vet on the team. -> argumentation for scumreading VE and rayn. - It's possible RNG made it that way.
Can you tell me how these two mesh?
i don't see why either arguments should be made at all frankly? lol
like, seriously, either it's RNG or the hosts adjusted. either way we won't know
which is what he was saying
it's a bad reason to scumread anyone, but doesn't that ignore the rest of his post where he did present reasons for scumreading them both beyond RNG or whatever?
it's a shit post but this feels like it's being read into too much
...
on the other hand the thing that just occurred to me is that for someone like ExO_ (assuming his claim is true) or me, or you...a blue claim should be met with more paranoia simply because we know we're blue and as the numbers keep piling up it becomes more and more likely someone was lying
so in that sense i'm not sure where the paranoia on rayn was coming from in artanis' case
like i 100% get ExO_s issue with the way the vote went down if he's blue cause i had issues with rayn's claim and onegu's...HF i trusted and the git was sitting there fake-claiming mason lol
No it's not being read in too much. Mafia has to make up stuff to scumread townies and if you find arguments that are really easy to make and don't involve the individual play, that also applies to claims, then you can be sure it could have come from mafia. Artanis starts his post with the premise of vets being in the scum team which just sounds like a lazy justification for his scumreads on VE and rayn, and at the same time posts something that invalidates his own reasoning to not look like he's stretching it too much.
And Toad if you want to discuss with me why I think you're scum do it without whining. Why shoot VE and why not consider LS for lynching D1 even though your post suggested you would? Like, I had every reason to scumread Trfel and I didn't shoot him cause a good vig doesn't go for the hero play, he removes people nobody bothers with or is capable of reading.
but fine if you want it:
I shot VE because I was told to shoot him. I had a massive townread on HF/Eden and I wanted to shoot my target. I was convinced to shoot who I'm supposed to shoot after all so I did that. Nothing more, nothing else. Had I not done that you would be dead by now because it was between shooting you and listening to HF/Eden. It never was between my #1 scumread and any other scumreads. It was between doing what I want and doing what I'm told to do.
- Host wifom dictates there's at least one vet on the team. -> argumentation for scumreading VE and rayn. - It's possible RNG made it that way.
Can you tell me how these two mesh?
i don't see why either arguments should be made at all frankly? lol
like, seriously, either it's RNG or the hosts adjusted. either way we won't know
which is what he was saying
it's a bad reason to scumread anyone, but doesn't that ignore the rest of his post where he did present reasons for scumreading them both beyond RNG or whatever?
it's a shit post but this feels like it's being read into too much
...
on the other hand the thing that just occurred to me is that for someone like ExO_ (assuming his claim is true) or me, or you...a blue claim should be met with more paranoia simply because we know we're blue and as the numbers keep piling up it becomes more and more likely someone was lying
so in that sense i'm not sure where the paranoia on rayn was coming from in artanis' case
like i 100% get ExO_s issue with the way the vote went down if he's blue cause i had issues with rayn's claim and onegu's...HF i trusted and the git was sitting there fake-claiming mason lol
No it's not being read in too much. Mafia has to make up stuff to scumread townies and if you find arguments that are really easy to make and don't involve the individual play, that also applies to claims, then you can be sure it could have come from mafia. Artanis starts his post with the premise of vets being in the scum team which just sounds like a lazy justification for his scumreads on VE and rayn, and at the same time posts something that invalidates his own reasoning to not look like he's stretching it too much.
And Toad if you want to discuss with me why I think you're scum do it without whining. Why shoot VE and why not consider LS for lynching D1 even though your post suggested you would? Like, I had every reason to scumread Trfel and I didn't shoot him cause a good vig doesn't go for the hero play, he removes people nobody bothers with or is capable of reading.
but fine if you want it:
I shot VE because I was told to shoot him. I had a massive townread on HF/Eden and I wanted to shoot my target. I was convinced to shoot who I'm supposed to shoot after all so I did that. Nothing more, nothing else. Had I not done that you would be dead by now because it was between shooting you and listening to HF/Eden. It never was between my #1 scumread and any other scumreads. It was between doing what I want and doing what I'm told to do.
Okay, so you went for the awful play and shot a guy who is able to post normally. You didn't post about your LS read but let's skip that for a moment. Would you lynch Artanis tomorrow?
No? He's town
I never had a LS read... I even had him on my sheet as "null, slightly leaning mafia" iirc what are you even talkinga bout.
On March 22 2015 07:57 Holyflare wrote: Look vivax shoot slam and toad shoot ve or something
On March 22 2015 06:23 Eden1892 wrote: decent logic on exo there.
vivax who you shootin bruh? slam yeah?
toad who you shootin bruh? ve yeah?
but hey we're back to Vivax throwing shit at me for no reason calling it a shit shot because HE thinks so... just that this time I'm actually sure he's town and doing it because pants-on-Head
- Host wifom dictates there's at least one vet on the team. -> argumentation for scumreading VE and rayn. - It's possible RNG made it that way.
Can you tell me how these two mesh?
i don't see why either arguments should be made at all frankly? lol
like, seriously, either it's RNG or the hosts adjusted. either way we won't know
which is what he was saying
it's a bad reason to scumread anyone, but doesn't that ignore the rest of his post where he did present reasons for scumreading them both beyond RNG or whatever?
it's a shit post but this feels like it's being read into too much
...
on the other hand the thing that just occurred to me is that for someone like ExO_ (assuming his claim is true) or me, or you...a blue claim should be met with more paranoia simply because we know we're blue and as the numbers keep piling up it becomes more and more likely someone was lying
so in that sense i'm not sure where the paranoia on rayn was coming from in artanis' case
like i 100% get ExO_s issue with the way the vote went down if he's blue cause i had issues with rayn's claim and onegu's...HF i trusted and the git was sitting there fake-claiming mason lol
No it's not being read in too much. Mafia has to make up stuff to scumread townies and if you find arguments that are really easy to make and don't involve the individual play, that also applies to claims, then you can be sure it could have come from mafia. Artanis starts his post with the premise of vets being in the scum team which just sounds like a lazy justification for his scumreads on VE and rayn, and at the same time posts something that invalidates his own reasoning to not look like he's stretching it too much.
And Toad if you want to discuss with me why I think you're scum do it without whining. Why shoot VE and why not consider LS for lynching D1 even though your post suggested you would? Like, I had every reason to scumread Trfel and I didn't shoot him cause a good vig doesn't go for the hero play, he removes people nobody bothers with or is capable of reading.
but fine if you want it:
I shot VE because I was told to shoot him. I had a massive townread on HF/Eden and I wanted to shoot my target. I was convinced to shoot who I'm supposed to shoot after all so I did that. Nothing more, nothing else. Had I not done that you would be dead by now because it was between shooting you and listening to HF/Eden. It never was between my #1 scumread and any other scumreads. It was between doing what I want and doing what I'm told to do.
Okay, so you went for the awful play and shot a guy who is able to post normally. You didn't post about your LS read but let's skip that for a moment. Would you lynch Artanis tomorrow?
No? He's town
I never had a LS read... I even had him on my sheet as "null, slightly leaning mafia" iirc what are you even talkinga bout.
LS seems very political correct. I mostly remember him for talking about how he co-hosted or hosted one of the games I played in (either hammer or Joat I guess) and explaining how my stance might make sense. Easy stuff to talk about, add that up with actually thinking I'm town (apparently?) and I get the shivers. Like I said, I get the feeling a lot of mafias just tend to give me townreads or nullreads based on my lenghty posts and it didn't feel like with other people like Eden who actually read my posts.
So with that being said I'd be up for lynching Palmar / Artanis+Rayn / Vivax+LS right now
well and that is just that, slightly leaning mafia on d1.
Read the actual reasoning you just quoted and tell me with a straight face that was a strong read I was really convinced in. It's a gutread and nothing else. Yes I'm willing to lynch into those d1 if they're up for lynch. No I'm not going to push them until they get stronger.
Artanis I think has a decent chance to flip mafia. He has done a lot more though ever since he got some heat. Have not yet figured out if him going everywhere and voting whatever comes in front of his visor is particularly townish or scummy yet.
Artanis might flip mafia. But Artanis did a lot more. I don't know if Artanis going after every target is town or scum.
But I would lynch Artanis.
This doesn't sound like a scumread at all. It's a plain "would lynch" with nullish points chained onto it. Can you point anyone to a reason you scumread him in the first place?
In case you forgot:
On March 20 2015 02:20 Toadesstern wrote: okay here's the thing about Artanis, to get this straight with context I'll explain the context for you guys as well!
It is 24:00 CET, the game begings. Toad is currently playing boat-moba thus only posting inbetween and didn't even realize the game started. Thus the rushed inbetween posts while alt-tabbing in games. About 01:00 CET, my internet crashes and I am afk for about... idk at least an hour About 02:00 CET, I'm back and actually doing stuff. You might not agree with things I did like my Palmar read but I did some stuff. Enough for people to figure out that I don't like Palmar and want him lynched at least. This continues until around 05:30 CET. Argueably I got distracted everytime HF got in the thread but I felt like I was actually getting my thoughts out at least when I made it pretty obvious that I don't want to lean back another game as townie and just lose that way.
So that's the basic background, Artanis gets in the thread and posts this:
On March 19 2015 20:55 Artanis[Xp] wrote: 1) I'm reading Toad's filter now and the only thing I got out of it was that he thinks Palmar is scum, some interactions with SL 2) and a lot of fluff particularly on Pg 2. 3) What I don't really understand is why he let go of the Palmar scum theory in favour of chasing SL, then jumped back to Palmar without any real 'trigger' for it other than rsoultin asking him.
Problem with that is that he mentions he's back to voting for Palmar in response to that question before he expands, so he had already been thinking of switching back to Palmar before anyone triggered him. Palmar hadn't posted between the time Toad switched to SL and went back to Palmar.
3 important things here:
1) Hypocrisy. He even mentioned someone else being a hypocrite towards him and fos'es me for only getting 1 mafiaread during the time between... 00:00AM and 05:30AM? He knows I'm from europe, he knows I've got to sleep, heck I even wrote it in the thread and he says he doesn't know enough about my reads despite him not giving out a single hard read up to that point. Check his filter up to that point and you won't find anything and yet he criticizes me for that?
2) He knows me. Everyone on here that knows me knows that I'm the boxxy of TL-mafia. I post a lot. I post a lot of big walls that noone reads. Chances are you, my dear non-reader, aren't actually reading this very sentence because you already gave up on it because it's too long and fully. That's what I do. No matter of alignment. Every single game. Sorry I just can't help it but he knows that I do it and he knows that I do it no matter of alignment. There's a big famous game that I had with VE + gom... whatever his name was that had like 200pages by the end of d2 because we're all very talkactive. He knows about that shit. He should not bring up my fluffyness no matter how cute I am.
3) I never gave up on Palmar. I think I made it plenty clear that I want him lynched and if I ever get the chance to lynch him I'm going to grab that chance and kick him out of this game. So HF reads me mafia for focussing too much on Palmar, Artanis reads me mafia for not focusing enough on Palmar and discussing other people even if I think Palmar is 99% confirmed mafia at this point. Great.
Did anyone here really think I let go of my Palmar read in general? I thought it was pretty damn obvious that I was just putting it aside for a sec to discuss some other stuff at that time, in this case SL.
Feels like he's pushing me because he wants to push me rather than actually being convinced I'm mafia. He directly goes against what HF thinks and comes to the same conclusion as HF with the opposite interpretation with his #3. He knows better than to use #2 and he himself is worse than me for what he's accusing me about with his #1 at that point in time.
The one thing Artanis has going for himself is that he apparently thinks I'm mafia. Mafias don't tend to mafiaread me because I post too big walloftexts and they're too lazy to actually read them so they'll nullread me or townread me because "wow, much text, very town" But the reasoning is really bad here.
Still want to lynch Palmar. I'd be up for Artanis though.
That's why I innitially wanted to lynch Artanis.
And he DID do a lot more ever since that. What you just quoted is me acknowledging that Artanis might actually be town at a time when I heavily mafiaread him. I acknowledged it based on him actually scumhunting in all different places. So yes, that's not a reason why I wanted to lynch Artanis. That's the reason why I started to townread Artanis.
But yeah good job completly ignoring my case on Artanis that people called really good, a lot of people actually wanted to lynch Artanis, you even called me mafia at that point for going for the "low hanging fruits", which you completly ignore right now saying I didn't have any reasoning for lynching Artanis at that point and quoting my post that tells people I actually think Artanis might be town to show "lookylooky, he had really shit reasoning for Artanis" instead of quoting my reasoning for wanting to lynch him...
Should I start quoting you explaining why you townread someone later on in the game that you ended up voting earlier and asking why that quote doesn't show how you're scumreading? I can go out of context as well if you want to shit this up any further.
- Host wifom dictates there's at least one vet on the team. -> argumentation for scumreading VE and rayn. - It's possible RNG made it that way.
Can you tell me how these two mesh?
i don't see why either arguments should be made at all frankly? lol
like, seriously, either it's RNG or the hosts adjusted. either way we won't know
which is what he was saying
it's a bad reason to scumread anyone, but doesn't that ignore the rest of his post where he did present reasons for scumreading them both beyond RNG or whatever?
it's a shit post but this feels like it's being read into too much
...
on the other hand the thing that just occurred to me is that for someone like ExO_ (assuming his claim is true) or me, or you...a blue claim should be met with more paranoia simply because we know we're blue and as the numbers keep piling up it becomes more and more likely someone was lying
so in that sense i'm not sure where the paranoia on rayn was coming from in artanis' case
like i 100% get ExO_s issue with the way the vote went down if he's blue cause i had issues with rayn's claim and onegu's...HF i trusted and the git was sitting there fake-claiming mason lol
No it's not being read in too much. Mafia has to make up stuff to scumread townies and if you find arguments that are really easy to make and don't involve the individual play, that also applies to claims, then you can be sure it could have come from mafia. Artanis starts his post with the premise of vets being in the scum team which just sounds like a lazy justification for his scumreads on VE and rayn, and at the same time posts something that invalidates his own reasoning to not look like he's stretching it too much.
And Toad if you want to discuss with me why I think you're scum do it without whining. Why shoot VE and why not consider LS for lynching D1 even though your post suggested you would? Like, I had every reason to scumread Trfel and I didn't shoot him cause a good vig doesn't go for the hero play, he removes people nobody bothers with or is capable of reading.
but fine if you want it:
I shot VE because I was told to shoot him. I had a massive townread on HF/Eden and I wanted to shoot my target. I was convinced to shoot who I'm supposed to shoot after all so I did that. Nothing more, nothing else. Had I not done that you would be dead by now because it was between shooting you and listening to HF/Eden. It never was between my #1 scumread and any other scumreads. It was between doing what I want and doing what I'm told to do.
Okay, so you went for the awful play and shot a guy who is able to post normally. You didn't post about your LS read but let's skip that for a moment. Would you lynch Artanis tomorrow?
No? He's town
I never had a LS read... I even had him on my sheet as "null, slightly leaning mafia" iirc what are you even talkinga bout.
LS seems very political correct. I mostly remember him for talking about how he co-hosted or hosted one of the games I played in (either hammer or Joat I guess) and explaining how my stance might make sense. Easy stuff to talk about, add that up with actually thinking I'm town (apparently?) and I get the shivers. Like I said, I get the feeling a lot of mafias just tend to give me townreads or nullreads based on my lenghty posts and it didn't feel like with other people like Eden who actually read my posts.
So with that being said I'd be up for lynching Palmar / Artanis+Rayn / Vivax+LS right now
well and that is just that, slightly leaning mafia on d1.
Read the actual reasoning you just quoted and tell me with a straight face that was a strong read I was really convinced in. It's a gutread and nothing else. Yes I'm willing to lynch into those d1 if they're up for lynch. No I'm not going to push them until they get stronger.
Well of all the people you mentioned as gutreads I ended up being your favourite when I already had the most votes while everyone who was your strong read (and you included Artanis among your strong reads) became a secondary preference.
When you mention Artanis you don't refer to the wall of text, you mention activity related reasons for being unsure about him that weren't even the main point of your case on him, here.
He has done a lot more though ever since he got some heat. Have not yet figured out if him going everywhere and voting whatever comes in front of his visor is particularly townish or scummy yet.
He has done more. If you honestly think there is a world in which Artanis is mafia in this game based on his activity you are insane and we are done talking. Period
- Host wifom dictates there's at least one vet on the team. -> argumentation for scumreading VE and rayn. - It's possible RNG made it that way.
Can you tell me how these two mesh?
i don't see why either arguments should be made at all frankly? lol
like, seriously, either it's RNG or the hosts adjusted. either way we won't know
which is what he was saying
it's a bad reason to scumread anyone, but doesn't that ignore the rest of his post where he did present reasons for scumreading them both beyond RNG or whatever?
it's a shit post but this feels like it's being read into too much
...
on the other hand the thing that just occurred to me is that for someone like ExO_ (assuming his claim is true) or me, or you...a blue claim should be met with more paranoia simply because we know we're blue and as the numbers keep piling up it becomes more and more likely someone was lying
so in that sense i'm not sure where the paranoia on rayn was coming from in artanis' case
like i 100% get ExO_s issue with the way the vote went down if he's blue cause i had issues with rayn's claim and onegu's...HF i trusted and the git was sitting there fake-claiming mason lol
No it's not being read in too much. Mafia has to make up stuff to scumread townies and if you find arguments that are really easy to make and don't involve the individual play, that also applies to claims, then you can be sure it could have come from mafia. Artanis starts his post with the premise of vets being in the scum team which just sounds like a lazy justification for his scumreads on VE and rayn, and at the same time posts something that invalidates his own reasoning to not look like he's stretching it too much.
And Toad if you want to discuss with me why I think you're scum do it without whining. Why shoot VE and why not consider LS for lynching D1 even though your post suggested you would? Like, I had every reason to scumread Trfel and I didn't shoot him cause a good vig doesn't go for the hero play, he removes people nobody bothers with or is capable of reading.
but fine if you want it:
I shot VE because I was told to shoot him. I had a massive townread on HF/Eden and I wanted to shoot my target. I was convinced to shoot who I'm supposed to shoot after all so I did that. Nothing more, nothing else. Had I not done that you would be dead by now because it was between shooting you and listening to HF/Eden. It never was between my #1 scumread and any other scumreads. It was between doing what I want and doing what I'm told to do.
Okay, so you went for the awful play and shot a guy who is able to post normally. You didn't post about your LS read but let's skip that for a moment. Would you lynch Artanis tomorrow?
No? He's town
I never had a LS read... I even had him on my sheet as "null, slightly leaning mafia" iirc what are you even talkinga bout.
LS seems very political correct. I mostly remember him for talking about how he co-hosted or hosted one of the games I played in (either hammer or Joat I guess) and explaining how my stance might make sense. Easy stuff to talk about, add that up with actually thinking I'm town (apparently?) and I get the shivers. Like I said, I get the feeling a lot of mafias just tend to give me townreads or nullreads based on my lenghty posts and it didn't feel like with other people like Eden who actually read my posts.
So with that being said I'd be up for lynching Palmar / Artanis+Rayn / Vivax+LS right now
well and that is just that, slightly leaning mafia on d1.
Read the actual reasoning you just quoted and tell me with a straight face that was a strong read I was really convinced in. It's a gutread and nothing else. Yes I'm willing to lynch into those d1 if they're up for lynch. No I'm not going to push them until they get stronger.
Well of all the people you mentioned as gutreads I ended up being your favourite when I already had the most votes while everyone who was your strong read (and you included Artanis among your strong reads) became a secondary preference.
When you mention Artanis you don't refer to the wall of text, you mention activity related reasons for being unsure about him that weren't even the main point of your case on him, here.
He has done a lot more though ever since he got some heat. Have not yet figured out if him going everywhere and voting whatever comes in front of his visor is particularly townish or scummy yet.
You are under the impression that I think everything I say has to be 100% correct, and the only way I every change a read is to disprove that established 100% read.
Example:
I thought you are mafia because you are throwing shit at me for the sake of throwing shit at me. You do that at deadline and follow up with a claim that is my role. Of course I think you're mafia
I still think you threw shit at me, but I came to the conclusion that you threw shit at me because you're Vivax and not for the sake of throwing shit at me. I came to that conclusion because the longer it went and the more you posted the more unlikely it became that my innitial conclusion was correct. Not because your posts proved them wrong, nothing you did could prove that you didn't do it for the sake of throwing shit. It changed because you posted so much and ramped up your activity to the point that I considered it more likely that you're just bad and the activity is and involvement is the better read than the "throwing shit" read.
Thus I changed my read without ever chaning my opinion on you throwing shit at me. I just changed the conclusion that it wasn't done on purpoe. You're just doing it because you're pants-on-head Vivax.
Same thing happened with Artanis. I did not have to disprove my innitial reasoning to townread him. I just have to come to the conclusion that something else is more likely to be the case.
On March 23 2015 03:53 Vivax wrote: I made this argument previously and you said "but Palmar is in there". Well no shit Palmar is in there only a dumb scum would forget about the guy he called scum so confidently. But what was the point of even posting about Damdred and SL?
because they were possible lynches? To state that I'm in theory willing to lynch them because I had no townread on either of the two at that point while vastly prefering my own reads?
On March 23 2015 03:57 Vivax wrote: You weren't in theory willing to lynch them
...
at that time I was. Why else would I have included them?
You see when I wanted to have you dead later on I only talked about you and lynching you. Noone else. Because I wasn't willing to go for anyone else at that point. You even agree with that, you just said so. You just aren't willing to look at the timestamps and acknowledge that people's reads and stances change.
I was willing to lynch them at that point. When you claimed Vig, that very second, everything else was gone for me and it was you or noone for me. And you're just ignoring that trying show all kinds of quotes out of context for the last 60 minutes.
You show that quote from me about my options and "disprove" it by talking about my state of mind hours later.
So with that being said I'd be up for lynching Palmar / Artanis+Rayn / Vivax+LS right now.
No SL and Dam in here.
oh my bad... I mixed up SL and LS and assumed that's what you're talking about... happens in a 200+ pages game. What did I say about SL and Dam? Can you link it to me? I don't remember what that's referring to
The last group of 3 people is grouped by "people under the radar, posting just enough to not be considered lurkers but not really all that much", which is a pretty strong mafiatrait in general.
Those 3 were the ones that came to my mind, those I gave a generak idea about them, including damdred and how I think he looks fine despite having just that thing I consider to be a strong mafiatrait.
The last group of 3 people is grouped by "people under the radar, posting just enough to not be considered lurkers but not really all that much", which is a pretty strong mafiatrait in general.
Those 3 were the ones that came to my mind, those I gave a generak idea about them, including damdred and how I think he looks fine despite having just that thing I consider to be a strong mafiatrait.
It's like this:
We have three options:
1) We lynch the guy I want dead: Palmar 2) We lynch one of the guys most people agree on: Artanisor Rayn 3) We go for a under-the-radar lynch. If it's that kind of lynch good options would be: Vivax+LS
On March 23 2015 04:11 Vivax wrote: Anyway this isn't really going anywhere since I'm feeling multiple stuff doesn't add up but nobody will care if I'm the only one, although maybe somebody finds something interesting when we have more information on Toad.
So, Toad. What do we do after LS is gone?
we obviously lynch Rayn, the guy everyone considered to be confirmed mafia and only put into green because of the fake mason claim.
On March 23 2015 04:13 Damdred wrote: Sorry got busy back now. I just like playing with you toad, so tell me what you think about the cop claim and tracker claim
we have a cop claim?
Rayn's tracker claim is obviously fake. Onegu fakeclaimed mason to eat mafiahits, thus the rage at a claimed Jailer that claimed to protect him. Perfectly explains why HF went along. He knew Onegu was fakeclaiming and heavily townreaded him for the same reason.
We could also lynch SL before rayn because of his fakeclaim, doesn't really matter.
What did the cop claim? Do we have another red check?
I guess he could be desperate trying to get everything out when we were talking about lynching him earlier but he could have just waited until after the lynch to get another check in? This makes no sense at all... but it's understandable to be in panic in his case I guess
On March 22 2015 05:37 Holyflare wrote: he could have just afk'd on toad and vivax would still die
the first is a quote from rsoultin
the second one is not in the slightest reading rayn as town, it's just going through different scenarios. He even said Palmar and rayn look really scummy for that last second switch when it happened...
On March 22 2015 05:37 Holyflare wrote: he could have just afk'd on toad and vivax would still die
in fact i'm almost certain he'd rather do that as mafia
Oh really? Guess it sucks when you don't read the game cause this is the post right after.
that is nothing at all. He's just thinking things through for a second without comming to a conclusion.
The last thing that he mentioned towards rayn that IS alignment indicative is:
On March 21 2015 21:04 Holyflare wrote: unfortunately still super wary of rayn
everything else after that is just talk about Artanis and how he's supposedly mafia for reading Rayn the wrong way, which does not say anything about him agreein with the conclusion, just that he disagrees with the way Artanis did it.
On March 23 2015 04:20 Toadesstern wrote: why would ExO claim a green on rso...
I guess he could be desperate trying to get everything out when we were talking about lynching him earlier but he could have just waited until after the lynch to get another check in? This makes no sense at all... but it's understandable to be in panic in his case I guess
exo thought the check meant i was VT...or he made up the check, but that seems...weird given the timing and the way he approached it
oh right, he did mention people lying yesterday. That actually makes sense
On March 23 2015 04:30 Vivax wrote: Toad has such an incomplete view of the game that everybody's alarm bells should be ringing. People who give a shit play the game, people who don't, don't.
ExO thought he spotted a liar when he got back the result, so he claimed. There's nothing desperate about that play, it's just a guy who thinks he caught scum and then fucks up cause he didn't read his role properly. That's not a mistake likely to happen to mafia as then that claim should have led to somewhere for his team, and I don't believe an entire scum team to make the mistake of thinking town can have a rolecop.
calm down for a second. That's exatly what I just said one I was told about the details....
On March 23 2015 04:30 Vivax wrote: Toad has such an incomplete view of the game that everybody's alarm bells should be ringing. People who give a shit play the game, people who don't, don't.
ExO thought he spotted a liar when he got back the result, so he claimed. There's nothing desperate about that play, it's just a guy who thinks he caught scum and then fucks up cause he didn't read his role properly. That's not a mistake likely to happen to mafia as then that claim should have led to somewhere for his team, and I don't believe an entire scum team to make the mistake of thinking town can have a rolecop.
calm down for a second. That's exatly what I just said one I was told about the details....
in fact you should be townreading me for comming to the same conclusion just now and remembering that I hed mention liars before claiming but you don't because you're on pants-on-head mode
On March 22 2015 05:37 Holyflare wrote: he could have just afk'd on toad and vivax would still die
in fact i'm almost certain he'd rather do that as mafia
Oh really? Guess it sucks when you don't read the game cause this is the post right after.
that is nothing at all. He's just thinking things through for a second without comming to a conclusion.
The last thing that he mentioned towards rayn that IS alignment indicative is:
On March 21 2015 21:04 Holyflare wrote: unfortunately still super wary of rayn
everything else after that is just talk about Artanis and how he's supposedly mafia for reading Rayn the wrong way, which does not say anything about him agreein with the conclusion, just that he disagrees with the way Artanis did it.
So you're telling me that when rsoultin suggests scum rayn and HF replies "but he'd just let vivax die as mafia" that doesn't imply he's reading him as town?
From what time is the super wary post? Pre- or post-bm-lynch?
First: Yes. He's just talking about different things that don't fit together yet without comming to a conclusion. Again, you're thinking that if someone says something about someone that's got t0 be 100% true no matter what when in fact people should have all kinds of different reads that get in the way with each other at times. That's where you figure out what's going on. You're completly ignoring that
could it be that the mighty Vivax acknowledges that people don't form reads in 100% white and black and that it's always a mixture of things that make someone look scummy as well as things that make people look townish and you just take whatever is the most likely explanation? Thus stating that there are reason to mafia or townread someone does not mean that someone is mafia or townreading all the time?
Naaaaah, he's going to keep on pants-on-Heading me
On March 23 2015 04:42 Vivax wrote: Toad, what's your exact role name?
are you trying to get me modkilled now?
I'm not allowed to quote anything I've got from any host pm's, including any questions I might have asked her/them during the game as well as my rolepm. And you should stop that as well if you don't want to get modkilled yourself.
6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host.
Talking about the specific phrasing of pm's from host as well is a reason for not only an insta modkill but for a ban. I just requested one in JOAT for someone who did that just. I'll leave it at that
On March 23 2015 04:53 Vivax wrote: Hm, saying just the role name isn't an offense. The exact phrasing and every piece of it would be. Anyway that really led to nowhere. I got curious after seeing your CC during the reread.
well the way I see it saying just the rolename as well is an offense if I quote it from my PM.
Say there's a typo in there that's not in the OP. That would be confirming me by quoting my PM despite "only" saying my name. Sorry I am not going there
And I'm pretty sure you just wanted me to quote the entire thing...
On March 23 2015 04:59 Vivax wrote: It's a pretty grey area. You can't post the entire PM but the role name. So w/e.
Time for some EoD observations:
On March 21 2015 05:09 rsoultin wrote:
On March 21 2015 05:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: This game is easy: Toadesstern LightningStrike Artanis Superbia rsoultin
at least one of those are wrong xP and i strongly suspect two
Super odd post.
say why. I have an idea what you're getting at but I want to hear it. Not just "super odd"
Still here. For one I don't remember rsoultin agreeing on any of these reads during D1. I mostly remember her claiming to be unsure about me and rayn. Then it's a post from her biggest scumread at the time. Then she doesn't specify who rayn is right on and who not.
So it leaves me with a lot of questions.
well the one rayn is wrong about is obviously rsoultin according to her... because that's herself
I find it mostly odd that she's only naming 2 people wrong on that list. At that point in time (I assume you took it from shortly after the lynch because you mentioned checking that?). Like I said first one is herself, but she was willing to lynch you over me, easily at that point had it been between you and me and she said so repeatedly. Mostly because CC on mafia makes no sense. So I've got to be the 2nd one that's wrong according to her.... I think
But I the wording is a little bit off. If she considers rayn to be mafia she should probably consider more than just that.
On March 21 2015 05:31 Palmar wrote: okay I'm behind.
we have claims?
yes i claim tracker toad and vivax claim vigi. toad is mafia, me and vivax are town.
now push toad.
We can all agree Rayn had me down as 100% cofirmed mafia in rayn-world.
Why did he packpedal into saying he'll track Toad OR Vivax
On March 21 2015 09:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: vivax shoots toad toad shoots vivax i track one of them
if mafia roleblocks the real vigi we lynch the other one (mafia will prolly kill the real vigi anyways, and the fake vigi will deliver). If mafia roleblocks me and the real vigi dies, the fake vigi dies aswell.
profit 100% <3 get rekt toad. medic protect vivax please.
I mean if Rayn thought Vivax is town and Toad is mafia he should have tracked tried to track Toad to confirm anything.
If he thinks Toad is mafia he should think that if anyone out of the two Vivax will get RB'ed. He should have tracked me assuming Vivax will get RB'ed.
Instead he tracked his townread despite assume that I am mafia, despite assuming that Vivax might be RB'ed
On March 23 2015 05:39 Eden1892 wrote: Honestly tracking either of y'all is dumb. It tells us nothing unless you're stupid enough as mafia to fakeclaim vig, claim a shot on X, claim roleblocked and then also deliver kp somewhere else. If you're town or you're halfway competent mafia you'll be able to craft an unfalsifiable story.
okay I guess I could fake it as mafia...
but why take the 0% chance of confirming anything above the... let's say 5% chance of me being stupid? Especially if he's mighty angry about me and wants me dead REALLY BADLY.
I just don't see why he'd track a townread, ever. I can get that tracking me would not have been optimal and he should have probably tracked a secondary scumread but Vivax?
On March 23 2015 05:32 rsoultin wrote: viva, you do realize that list came out before rayn's claim? i had to check cause i couldn't really remember when that was :/
i'd been think ls was town most of the game -shrugs- that's the second i was talking about. pretty sure toad's claim hadn't come out yet either but i haven't verified that yet?
Check it again, quite possible my memory failed me, but I was reading stuff from the time around the claims so I find it unlikely? Maybe I was reading backwards.
As for Toad's question: I have no idea. Would be interesting to hear about it from rayn.
see, this is why I'm calling you a hypocrite and pants-on-head.
Just a couple minutes ago you told me it makes no sense to talk to me because you think my reasoning for townreading Artanis makes no sense and that you want to hear other peoples opinion.
Btw could anyone please chime in and tell him that townreading Artanis for his effort he put into ever since late d1 and later is in fact a good reason to townread him. Just tell that to vivax because he doesn't believe me and if noone talks about that he'll take it as if he's correct when in reality noone is bothering to talk to him about that because it's so damn obvious.
Back on topic: On the other hand you are no telling me you don't want other peoples opinion on wether or not rayn's decision made sense and want to hear it from him?
On March 23 2015 05:32 rsoultin wrote: viva, you do realize that list came out before rayn's claim? i had to check cause i couldn't really remember when that was :/
i'd been think ls was town most of the game -shrugs- that's the second i was talking about. pretty sure toad's claim hadn't come out yet either but i haven't verified that yet?
Check it again, quite possible my memory failed me, but I was reading stuff from the time around the claims so I find it unlikely? Maybe I was reading backwards.
As for Toad's question: I have no idea. Would be interesting to hear about it from rayn.
[...] Btw could anyone please chime in and tell him that townreading Artanis for his effort he put into ever since late d1 and later is in fact a good reason to townread him. Just tell that to vivax because he doesn't believe me and if noone talks about that he'll take it as if he's correct when in reality noone is bothering to talk to him about that because it's so damn obvious.
[...]
someone like Eden or idk.. someone that Vivax isn't currently scumreading at least
On March 23 2015 05:55 Vivax wrote: Toad, I already said I'm considering that rayn is making a play here, so I'm really only waiting for him to show up. I don't see a point in discussing the claims any further when he could say "I'm not tracker", "I tracked some other guy and bsbsbs", "I'm actually Onegu's partner" etc.
I'll reconsider him as scum if he's still alive the next day and based on the new input but all this claiming bullshit and the talk of it is getting on my nerves heavily. It's stuff that becomes clearer as the game moves on and dwelling on it when today's lynch is decided already is something I leave to sisyphus.
why would he ever get in the thread and openly claim mafia...
Oh. God damn it I should just ignore Vivax for the rest of the game, never answer him and read properly... he's making me not read by making me stick in here...
On March 23 2015 06:03 Toadesstern wrote: Oh. God damn it I should just ignore Vivax for the rest of the game, never answer him and read properly... he's making me not read by making me stick in here...
The mind control, history repeats itself.
do you know what happened last time? You almost lynched tha mayor and sheriff that were pushing for two different mafia lynches on d1, one of them got lynched and flipped mafia.
I can see it before my eyes, it's literally the same thing happening again and I have to somehow deal with this crap...
On March 23 2015 06:14 Eden1892 wrote: i can't be the only one that noticed that ray immediately complied with his scumread's demand for a hardclaim right?
I'm going to be afk for an hour or so... there's still some 5 to 10 pages that need reading, watch some anime and stuff. I don't think I'm in any form to be mentally able to help out with anything right now...
i'll give vivax his due respect by not clogging the thread with investigating leads i don't think will find scum
gosh thanks, instead you you sit back giggling while I'm treading through hell that is having to deal with it
your responses were townie and helped with any niggling doubts?
plus they did finally get viva off your back so...win/win? lol
if only this would last longer than 12 hours
I was about to ask to get shot during night but with all the cop claims and whatnot that seems pretty unlikely atm... I'm legit scared of mafia trying to put me in any kind of lylo that involves vivax and me, on purpose.
On March 23 2015 08:54 Damdred wrote: LS isn't the rb he can't be. Vivax was rb supposedly, IF LS flips rb viv Prolly Scum I doubt hts let's someone block and carry a kp
8 Any given scum can deliver a faction kill as well as any KP granted by the orb.
I'd take that as anyone can deliver KP. It's usually you don't have to pick anyone to deliver at all and it's thus not trackable or everyone can deliver even if they have roles.
On March 23 2015 08:54 Damdred wrote: LS isn't the rb he can't be. Vivax was rb supposedly, IF LS flips rb viv Prolly Scum I doubt hts let's someone block and carry a kp
8 Any given scum can deliver a faction kill as well as any KP granted by the orb.
I'd take that as anyone can deliver KP. It's usually you don't have to pick anyone to deliver at all and it's thus not trackable or everyone can deliver even if they have roles.
i think what damdred is saying isn't that goon has to deliver kp, but that you can't both rb someone and deliver kp with the same person
yeah I know, but that's usually not the case as far as I know?
I mean I'm all up for killing rayn first so we're done with him and vivax calling him mafia but I don't think anyone would say you have to have a goon to kill someone. What happens if the team has more KP than vanilla mafias? That'd be huge town-buff in comparison to the games where you don't have to send anyone and the kills "just happen"
On March 23 2015 09:18 Damdred wrote: Also it probably means that Rayn visited vivax and told the truth in case the orb tracked him so people couldn't say he lied. Rayn is probable rb
I am actually about 190% certain onegu is no mason and I've already said so 3 times.
The question about Onegu is wether or not he did it to draw shots or to fakeclaim to not get lynched as lurker wh does nothing. You can make an argument that he's more likely to be town because Rayn said he's not mason with Onegu. Would mafia!rayn just go along and claim mason, happy about suddenly being townread by everyone and their mom?
We literally had him as orange / heavy red before the mason claim, about to lynch him, Onegu claims Rayn is his buddy and suddenly everyone is townreading Rayn. And that made sense. But this just doesn't seem coordinated between Onegu and Rayn at all... unless this is some crappy wifom "look I wouldn't do this as mafia" but that's pretty convoluted. Pretty sure they're just not mafia together
On March 23 2015 09:35 Toadesstern wrote: I am actually about 190% certain onegu is no mason and I've already said so 3 times.
The question about Onegu is wether or not he did it to draw shots or to fakeclaim to not get lynched as lurker wh does nothing. You can make an argument that he's more likely to be town because Rayn said he's not mason with Onegu. Would mafia!rayn just go along and claim mason, happy about suddenly being townread by everyone and their mom?
We literally had him as orange / heavy red before the mason claim, about to lynch him, Onegu claims Rayn is his buddy and suddenly everyone is townreading Rayn. And that made sense. But this just doesn't seem coordinated between Onegu and Rayn at all... unless this is some crappy wifom "look I wouldn't do this as mafia" but that's pretty convoluted. Pretty sure they're just not mafia together
Actually, the benefit to Rayn responding in this fashion is that Onegu and Rayn's fates are no longer intertwined. It's one of the greatest distancing tactics possible. Had Rayn confirmed that Onegu was his mason buddy and one of them flipped, the other would be guaranteed screwed.
yeah but again, look at where we were at that time:
Rayn was about to get lynched at that time. So you're saying it's a move to kill himself while making Onegu not look bad? I don't know about you, but after Onegu's claim that Rayn was mason with him I townread both of Onegu+Rayn heavily. maybe not as heavy as Onegu on his own but still. At least wouldn't he just shut up as mafia if they're together until the day is over, especially if he's supposedly the RB?
On March 23 2015 10:16 Trfel wrote: I don't understand why Onegu and raynpelikoneet aren't mafia together.
I think it is reasonable that Onegu saw raynpelikoneet in trouble and claimed mason with him without asking first. Then, raynpelikoneet didnt accept the mason claim (either because it risks revealing both of them as mafia or because he didn't read the thread and didn't see what Onegu was doing, which seems quite likely).
Is it an uncoordinated play? Yes. But I think it's still reasonable.
I don't think their alignments are tied together. But I still think that it is very likely that Onegu was carrying KP and rsoultin roleblocked it. I don't see mafia shooting Onegu here when they were already shooting his mason buddy Holyflare, and leaving claimed tracker raynpelikoneet and obvious blue ExO_ alive.
On March 23 2015 10:31 sicklucker wrote: Im fairly sure mafia shot ve. Let me explain. A few games ago with ve when he subbed in he claimed medic for no reason at night. Then mafia asap shot him.
This game he subtle tried to take a rolebullit and It makes sense mafia feel for it. Toad how har ddid you telegraph your shot I forget?
Like if you telegraphed who you were shooting like I said you shouldnt theres 0% chance your town unless mafia did some sort of ridiculous double stack to frame you.
heck I didn't even know myself who I was shooting until I got confirmation on that lol
yeah but Vivax apparently got RB'ed and that's why Slam survived
So we have me on VE + 2 mafia shots while only HF got killed. So either mafia doublestacked VE with me, or shot into protection, or got roleblocked by our protection
I was in thread telling people, Eden in particular that I'm not willing to shoot VE, period and that I want to do my heroplay and even if I listen to you guys I wouldn't want to shoot VE saying at that time I'd rather shoot ExO or Slam if I have to.
In the end I raged at HF for not understanding my heroplan I had and just did whatever I was supposed to do without giving a care in the world. VE was a weak townread of mine after all.
I really don't think anyone was expecting that lol
Down. Sad. It's the strangest thing that has happened to me in a while, yet, if I think, it has happened once before.
Oregairu 2 for next season (Ep 1 - 10d 14h 33m) PV is out, in horrible 240p youtube quality but it's out. And Nagi Yanagi (君の知らない物語 from Bake mono for example) is singing again! Go check it out:
On March 23 2015 11:39 Damdred wrote: Actually its possible rayn is the scum obviously oneg is mason with someone and hf in retrospect left a last will in mason qt to be posted if he died or something crazy mafia wifom. And besides that you can't leave 100% confirmed townies alive it gives the thread to much to work with.
If oneg doesn't claim tommorow we either lynch him or orb him.
???
Just speculation, if I'm dying and a mason id tell partner everything I wanted to say on my death. Im not hf and he's better than me but I'm always more hesitant when I'm alive than dead shrug
but he flipped VT?
Holyflare, the Nova Corpsman (Town Vanilla) did not escape the Kyln.
On March 23 2015 11:26 Toadesstern wrote: Put Palmar 4th. I want to have some time [EBWOP] to yell "told ya bitches" if I make it that far into the game
On March 23 2015 13:03 Eden1892 wrote: i want you lynched because i pretty much don't at all believe that any competent mafia wastes kp on you when you literally aren't doing anything period
Exactly!!!
So why would town rsoul protect me. So when I flip town it looks really bad on toad because of missing kp and rsoul because of same thing
lol onegu
it won't look bad on me if you flip town xP or on toad
i'm not sure why you think that
Because I really doubt I was shot. And we have a missing KP.
it might make rsoul look a little worse but not really because it's just eliminating one of the theories. The "rsoul blocked you delivering KP"
How does you flipping town make me look worse? If anything you flipping mafia would make me look worse because mafia prooooobably didn't shoot you if you're mafia either?
your point of "mafia would not shoot me, so once that's over your theory that mafia shot me while I am mafia myself" doesn't make any sense. Because noone is saying that
On March 23 2015 13:24 Onegu wrote: I think you are scum and delivered the KP to VE so that shows if you were tracked. In order to explain the missing KP you claim JK on me. As it's kinda plausible but not really. You want HF dead so you explain you thought he wouldn't be shot for medic dodge.
nice story, and how does you flipping one way or the other show anything about that? That's the thing we were discussing here...
Vivax at least tried to come of with some weird conspiracies
not to mention that the whole thing required rsoultin and me to be mafia together and both fakeclaim blue and ... just hope that there's no real jailer?
On March 23 2015 13:31 Toadesstern wrote: not to mention that the whole thing required rsoultin and me to be mafia together and both fakeclaim blue and ... just hope that there's no real jailer?
But hey, rayn's tracker claim is totally legit
I think it is. Rayn claim that is.
Plus with all the blue claims already why not fake claim. Like if mafia has like 4 goons they know.it's a low PR game and with multiple claims.already...
did you actually read what he figured out about Rayn recently? He's confirmed mafia at this point. We're considering to lynch him before LS who claimed mafia in the thread.
On March 23 2015 13:35 Toadesstern wrote: well if you're jailer you're probably dead soonish, so not like there's a need to worry about this. LS is claimed mafia and so is rayn.
On March 23 2015 13:31 Toadesstern wrote: not to mention that the whole thing required rsoultin and me to be mafia together and both fakeclaim blue and ... just hope that there's no real jailer?
But hey, rayn's tracker claim is totally legit
I think it is. Rayn claim that is.
Plus with all the blue claims already why not fake claim. Like if mafia has like 4 goons they know.it's a low PR game and with multiple claims.already...
did you actually read what he figured out about Rayn recently? He's confirmed mafia at this point. We're considering to lynch him before LS who claimed mafia in the thread.
On March 23 2015 13:24 Onegu wrote: I think you are scum and delivered the KP to VE so that shows if you were tracked. In order to explain the missing KP you claim JK on me. As it's kinda plausible but not really. You want HF dead so you explain you thought he wouldn't be shot for medic dodge.
okay
well, that's a nice conspiracy theory i guess?
so i assume that you also believe there is no jk in the game at all and i'm the godfather?
I don't believe a VT check on you. Hosts will never confirm btw as it confirms Edo if town or scum/dumb if wrong.
so your working theory at this point is that one scum who's been pretty townie this game fakeclaimed vig and in order to cover his tracks his partner who's also been pretty townie this game fakeclaimed jailkeeper and in order to cover her tracks a third scum fakeclaimed cop with a greencheck on the second
meanwhile the guy who hardclaimed tracker to his scumread when not under any pressure in the thread to claim is legit
we already explained that to him, but he scumreads rsoultin and me so maybe it does change something if you spell it out again
On March 23 2015 13:24 Onegu wrote: I think you are scum and delivered the KP to VE so that shows if you were tracked. In order to explain the missing KP you claim JK on me. As it's kinda plausible but not really. You want HF dead so you explain you thought he wouldn't be shot for medic dodge.
okay
well, that's a nice conspiracy theory i guess?
so i assume that you also believe there is no jk in the game at all and i'm the godfather?
I don't believe a VT check on you. Hosts will never confirm btw as it confirms Edo if town or scum/dumb if wrong.
so your working theory at this point is that one scum who's been pretty townie this game fakeclaimed vig and in order to cover his tracks his partner who's also been pretty townie this game fakeclaimed jailkeeper and in order to cover her tracks a third scum fakeclaimed cop with a greencheck on the second
meanwhile the guy who hardclaimed tracker to his scumread when not under any pressure in the thread to claim is legit
Yes, since when does rayns claims make.sense
is that a general argument being implied? (i.e. "ray normally doesn't make sense with his claims") because otherwise i don't understand what i'm being asked
and if that is the question i hardly see the pertinence since it's not the main point at all. that theory is whack and frankly looks designed more to spread doubt about the claims than it is designed to find the truth
putting the last bit another way: how on earth do you intend to go about demonstrate this theory
apparently him flipping town proves that rsoultin and I are mafia because we can no longer hold to our theory that mafia shot mafia!Onegu. Thus Onegu being town shows that KP is missing
Once he flipped town we lynch into either me or rsoulting according to him
On March 23 2015 13:24 Onegu wrote: I think you are scum and delivered the KP to VE so that shows if you were tracked. In order to explain the missing KP you claim JK on me. As it's kinda plausible but not really. You want HF dead so you explain you thought he wouldn't be shot for medic dodge.
okay
well, that's a nice conspiracy theory i guess?
so i assume that you also believe there is no jk in the game at all and i'm the godfather?
I don't believe a VT check on you. Hosts will never confirm btw as it confirms Edo if town or scum/dumb if wrong.
so your working theory at this point is that one scum who's been pretty townie this game fakeclaimed vig and in order to cover his tracks his partner who's also been pretty townie this game fakeclaimed jailkeeper and in order to cover her tracks a third scum fakeclaimed cop with a greencheck on the second
meanwhile the guy who hardclaimed tracker to his scumread when not under any pressure in the thread to claim is legit
Yes, since when does rayns claims make.sense
is that a general argument being implied? (i.e. "ray normally doesn't make sense with his claims") because otherwise i don't understand what i'm being asked
and if that is the question i hardly see the pertinence since it's not the main point at all. that theory is whack and frankly looks designed more to spread doubt about the claims than it is designed to find the truth
putting the last bit another way: how on earth do you intend to go about demonstrate this theory
apparently him flipping town proves that rsoultin and I are mafia because we can no longer hold to our theory that mafia shot mafia!Onegu. Thus Onegu being town shows that KP is missing
Once he flipped town we lynch into either me or rsoulting according to him
so you're vigging him tonight right
I don't know about vivax but I only had 1 bullet...
except that I shot VE with it... Vivax might have lied about Slam and still have his or maybe he mas more... but frankly more than multi-shot vig makes very little since with how much powerroles we have floating around, even if you take away the tracker and mason from Rayn&Onegu
On March 23 2015 15:00 Breshke wrote: Im fairly sure the OP says the vigis are one shot.
Also is there any other reason that onegu doesn't claim his partner here right now other than trying to find a mafia partner that sounds believable. I honestly cant think why townmason onegu hasnt claimed it yet.
okay to go only with info from OP to not get modkilled... it states that bulletS will not be returned if you get roleblocked. Yes that would not make sense with infinite shot vigs because there's no point in that rule but it could be multi-shot vigs to balance out things in theory I guess? Unlike with us having 2 of them though lol
On March 23 2015 14:59 rsoultin wrote: if toad's the town vig, held his bullet but is claiming he shot VE he's an ass for disseminating false information and letting us think there's KP unaccounted for, sicklucker xP
it's not even good WIFOM cause mafia would already know they'd shot VE if they shot him
Its great if it works. Honestly I would do it. Only way to grantee a shot dirty ole roleblockers
is this where I end up yelling: guys I faked all this Vig shit. I'm actually Onegu's Mason partner and only wanted to get Vivax lynched!
I wish I could say that and I love lying whenever I role town for heroplays but this is not a heroplay lol
just don't be like Caller. He walked up to interview at amazon and was like "yup I can totally program, havn't done it in 3 years but shouldn't be a problem" so they gave him a task to do something in one of the two programming languages he can do and he obviously had no idea what to do
On March 23 2015 15:38 Toadesstern wrote: just don't be like Caller. He walked up to interview at amazon and was like "yup I can totally program, havn't done it in 3 years but shouldn't be a problem" so they gave him a task to do something in one of the two programming languages he can do and he obviously had no idea what to do
so don't apply for something i'm not qualified to do? got it boss
no I don't think it had anything to do with that. He just mentioned it in his CV and was apparently a little braggart
we should have probably made a big shiny text saying "this has nothing to do with the actual game" a little while ago and ended it with something telling people what they don't have to read with it already being this big of a game
I wouldn't shoot you as mafia. I've always been saying you're either mafia or town who tried to draw hits to himself as VT/VET I wouldn't want to risk shooting into VET as mafia
But apparently everyone else believed the mason thing
yeah but the fact that you were already running at rsoul made it likely for me that you were angry because someone wasted a save on you, not because it makes no sense but because you knew it would have been wasted on you, the VET.
Trfel, your whole point about how I might claim in that spot as mafia comes down to being scared of vivax?
I had no vote on me except for Rayn&Palmar (both very likely scum and I scumread them both) so I wasn't really afraid myself. In fact all the votes that I DID get came AFTER I calimed so if you're trying to sell it that way it's just factually wrong. I think we can both agree that I would have never been lynched d1 no matter what, right?
We already know mafia have a roleblocker unless Vivax is mafia because Vivax got roleblocked. Why would I be afraid to get shot by Vivax if I know I have a mate that can just roleblock him? I could have just let him be roleblocked without having claimed myself?
On March 24 2015 13:32 Toadesstern wrote: sup I'm back o/
What did I miss except for obvious mafia flipping mafia?
Congrats on your sleep schedule
ray ragequit after dropping a tight game in XXX Mini (despite a brilliant performance, seriously), ritoky replaced in and is pretty much mafia IMO. Go read my stuff on ritoky and decide for yourself though, I'm at my best when people are showing me where I'm wrong.
mmh honestly if that's the case I'm not really interested in ritoky.
Sorry dude you're getting lynched tomorrow. Don't waste your time to catch up. I mean yeah it's really rude to say this but there's nothing you can do to make me not lynch you tomorrow. Rayn was as confirmed mafia as they get and I wouldn't want to waste your time :/
Trfel I also note that Toadesstern stated that if Vivax flipped town vigilante, Toadesstern should automatically be the next lynch. This simply isn't true, but is a good incentive for people to vote for Vivax. This suggests that perhaps Toadesstern was more interested in lynching Vivax than solving the game.
I'm kind of known to be of the opinion that a quick lynch on myself, as town when a majority of peoplep think I'm mafia and it's just too much chaos otherwise is a good thing. I've done that like... twice, I get a lot of crap for it but I stand by that.
Last time I did it I ended up setting myself up as lynch on purpose, did get lynched and made a huge last second post with reads and explaining my plan and how to move on after the ML ending in something along the lines of "I would have been dragged into lylo by mafia if we don't get over this now. Sometimes the best way to get over things is to shove someones dead, green head into their face and be done with it. This time it's mine. Move on after this and you still just win" I'm a dramaqueen like that
raynpelikoneet: Seems much angrier than normal idk if it's truely alignment indicative about him but HF says he's useless as Mafia compared to Town but his filter seems Palmar centric with some side tracks O_o
Palmar: Trolling a good amount I don't think it's alignment indicative for him since he loves to troll as both alignment from my experience with him cept for Metal Mini when he was super serious.
Alakaslam: Slam is Slam and I can't really read him and I know he's the true king of WIFOM as either alignemnt so meh.
Onegu: Very short filter and not really doing much but I remember him being kinda meh as town compared to Mafia but I need some more posts from him.
sicklucker: I can't read him anymore after Linux when he was Mafia and he always bounces off the walls as either alignment and did make some incorrect statements about self meta but he done that as either alignment. I think he becomes obvious Mafia at Day 2/3 area from my experience with him and seeing him playing as Mafia so I waiting for Day 2 to make my read on him.
those all read horrible to me and out of them Palmar the least horrible (wow... what am I saying )
I mean just look at all the back and forth going, the massive amounts of insecureness and unwillingness to put something clear about those other 4 in particular.
They all basicly just read "there's this thing I consider scummy.... but meh not sure" with a lot of "idk" and "but" mixed in
I'll grant you that claiming to have the orb means you can't just randomly point it at someone really townish. With rayn's fake tracker claim and us never getting a CC on that it's quite likely there's no tracker in the game, so you would have gotten away with it as mafia to just point it at someone without ever mentioning it. For example our Jailer or Cop and get a 2/3 chance to get something useful out of it (RB or KP) that way...
actually I've got to agree here, for different reasons than you mentioned but I do agree. I don't think it's particularly townish at all, but I think the above is the play mafia does if it can't be caught because no tracker?
On March 24 2015 15:14 Toadesstern wrote: @Trfel Why wouldn't he just shut up about it as mafia and point it at the Cop?
Because I'm assuming mafia will kill the cop with a 100% certain shot, not a random thing.
He's probably town for it, but with more information coming in less than 18 hours on the subject, I'd rather just leave it alone until then. You guys can analyze it as much as you want, and I'll read it, I just don't feel like thinking about it at the moment.
Plus, you've already proved your analysis far superior to mine, so I'll trust you.
okay sure, I just picked the cop as an obvious example but surely there's more good looking people around than just 2KP.
If he's mafia he could try to kill someone we'd never forgive him as a claimed orb user. You don't have to go for the cop, he might as well put the orb on me or someone else that's good to get rid of while not being on the same priority than the Cop / Jailer.
On March 24 2015 15:23 sicklucker wrote: If they rb me kill rstou and exo. There risking a save on exo. Yo should probably save exo tonight btw...
A save on exo roleblocks him as well making his role useless... there's better people to save than him. Artanis / Vivax / Eden / I myself, all people that don't mind being roleblocked
yeah it probably doesn't help talking about a Jailer right now. I also don't think it's a good idea to talk with sicklucker about his reads right now.
If you actually have the orb shut up about it and don't let mafia know who you're going to target. They have to send people out to deliver KP and you don't want them knowing what you think right now
I don't think the "pushing no agenda EoD" part means anything if the three possible lynches are all town. You just don't have to push any agenda as mafia in that situation and do whatever you think will make you look the best. The lynch was between Vivax / Toad / BM at that time and I'd think a veteran mafia player would be smart enough to figure that out and just bus to look good because the bus isn't happening anyways with how fast the thread was going at that time.
I don't think superbia is that kind of player so it does indeed make him look a bit better. Not sure how much though. If we go with Rayn as mafia I could easily see him point that out to his buddies and just tell everyone to make whatever it takes to look good later in the game because the lynch is just between those 3 anyways.
On March 23 2015 13:24 Onegu wrote: I think you are scum and delivered the KP to VE so that shows if you were tracked. In order to explain the missing KP you claim JK on me. As it's kinda plausible but not really. You want HF dead so you explain you thought he wouldn't be shot for medic dodge.
okay
well, that's a nice conspiracy theory i guess?
so i assume that you also believe there is no jk in the game at all and i'm the godfather?
I don't believe a VT check on you. Hosts will never confirm btw as it confirms Edo if town or scum/dumb if wrong.
so your working theory at this point is that one scum who's been pretty townie this game fakeclaimed vig and in order to cover his tracks his partner who's also been pretty townie this game fakeclaimed jailkeeper and in order to cover her tracks a third scum fakeclaimed cop with a greencheck on the second
meanwhile the guy who hardclaimed tracker to his scumread when not under any pressure in the thread to claim is legit
Yes, since when does rayns claims make.sense
is that a general argument being implied? (i.e. "ray normally doesn't make sense with his claims") because otherwise i don't understand what i'm being asked
and if that is the question i hardly see the pertinence since it's not the main point at all. that theory is whack and frankly looks designed more to spread doubt about the claims than it is designed to find the truth
putting the last bit another way: how on earth do you intend to go about demonstrate this theory
apparently him flipping town proves that rsoultin and I are mafia because we can no longer hold to our theory that mafia shot mafia!Onegu. Thus Onegu being town shows that KP is missing
Once he flipped town we lynch into either me or rsoulting according to him
so you're vigging him tonight right
I don't know about vivax but I only had 1 bullet...
the entire point about why mafia would want a vig dead was based on people saying there has to be mafia between Vivax and Toad during d1/n1 to begin with.
If anything I find it quite likely that mafia might even want to get BM over any of the vigs hoping for either a reapeat of d1 that just means a shitton of chaos and will end up as Toad vs Vivax lynch or for the vigs to shoot each other during n1. If both vigs are town that is highly beneficial for mafia.
I'll be afk and get on later again, need to catch my train and you probably want to sleep if it's 3:30 at your place. I doubt I'll miss out on a lot of talk when it's 9:40 AM in europe and 3:40 am in the US right now o/
On March 25 2015 06:24 Toadesstern wrote: Rsoultin claimed to have jailed Onegu, which is the whole point behind Onegu mafiareading her based on "why didn't you save HF"
I think its much more likely mafia Onegu was jailed and couldn't shoot, than Onegu was targetted by mafia.
It depends on vigis, I feel. If both of them are real, I think they would've shot into the vigis, in which case it is likely that Onegu is mafia.
If one of them is fake, it is more likely they want to keep both of the vigis alive and shoot into the "masons".
why would mafia shoot into a vig if having town lynch them is the way better option for them? At that point in time we were all set on the idea that one of us has to be mafia and we were heading for a reapeat of d1, a lynch between Vivax and me.
On March 25 2015 06:24 Toadesstern wrote: Rsoultin claimed to have jailed Onegu, which is the whole point behind Onegu mafiareading her based on "why didn't you save HF"
I think its much more likely mafia Onegu was jailed and couldn't shoot, than Onegu was targetted by mafia.
It depends on vigis, I feel. If both of them are real, I think they would've shot into the vigis, in which case it is likely that Onegu is mafia.
If one of them is fake, it is more likely they want to keep both of the vigis alive and shoot into the "masons".
why would mafia shoot into a vig if having town lynch them is the way better option for them? At that point in time we were all set on the idea that one of us has to be mafia and we were heading for a reapeat of d1, a lynch between Vivax and me.
That's literally best case scenario for mafia.
Because the other vigi has to explain why he's alive on d3 or whatever. And they just keep RBing him.
you just said "they'd shoot into vig if one is fake and one is town" and now you're explaining it by using what we think to be more likely, that both are town.
Let's say you are right and it is 1 mafia 1 town. If they shoot into vig they will shoot the town one (duh) That would be an insta lynch on d2 for the other vig and you say that's what they'd do because they could just keep on roleblocking the still alive vig (mafia according to your explanation because the townvig is already dead) So they're framing the mafia-Vig as mafia by roleblocking him and making people ask why he's still alive?
On March 25 2015 06:38 Superbia wrote: Like this is all rather guessing where the mafia's wine is, but if I was mafia, and both were town, I would've probably shot Vivax after that d1, especially if you can set up the wagons well.
why would you should either Vivax or me when you can get us lynched...
think about it this way: Day 1: BM lynch Day 2: lynch between Vivax or Toad, let's say it's on Vivax Day 3: "Oh hey, Vivax flipped green!", lynch on Toad
On March 25 2015 06:38 Superbia wrote: Like this is all rather guessing where the mafia's wine is, but if I was mafia, and both were town, I would've probably shot Vivax after that d1, especially if you can set up the wagons well.
why would you should either Vivax or me when you can get us lynched...
think about it this way: Day 1: BM lynch Day 2: lynch between Vivax or Toad, let's say it's on Vivax Day 3: "Oh hey, Vivax flipped green!", lynch on Toad
sounds a lot better than what you're saying
Yeah but this play is way too obvious. Mafia never wants to be obvious.
how is it obvious if they're leaving it to town to decide... you're not making any sense here.
So you're saying mafia went for the bad play that makes less sense on purpose to not be obvious... got it... it's another conspiracy
On March 25 2015 06:52 ritoky wrote: i am super confused by what superbia is talking about. can someone try to make sense of this for me, or tell me if i am wrong.
he says the play he would make as mafia if 2 vigis were real and claimed, the play would be shoot 1 vigi @ night to setup the ML on the other; thus since it didn't happen that way 1 of the vigis is mafia? is that correct?
in a game with this many claims out in the open, why do you think the mafia would place vigi as such a high priority? especially when 1 has claimed to use their shot.
On March 25 2015 06:38 Superbia wrote: Like this is all rather guessing where the mafia's wine is, but if I was mafia, and both were town, I would've probably shot Vivax after that d1, especially if you can set up the wagons well.
why would you should either Vivax or me when you can get us lynched...
think about it this way: Day 1: BM lynch Day 2: lynch between Vivax or Toad, let's say it's on Vivax Day 3: "Oh hey, Vivax flipped green!", lynch on Toad
sounds a lot better than what you're saying
would be the play for mafia if both vigs are town and from all I'm seeing that's exactly what they were looking at.
We got Palmar, who for the entirety of D1 read me as scum suddenly switched over during EoD to ensure a lynch on BM instead of a lynch on any of the two vigs...
explain to me why 4 shown dead people makes it more likely for there to be a mafia vig... explain to me why you consider that it the less "obvious" plan than
On March 25 2015 06:38 Superbia wrote: Like this is all rather guessing where the mafia's wine is, but if I was mafia, and both were town, I would've probably shot Vivax after that d1, especially if you can set up the wagons well.
why would you [shoot] either Vivax or me when you can get us lynched...
think about it this way: Day 1: BM lynch Day 2: lynch between Vivax or Toad, let's say it's on Vivax Day 3: "Oh hey, Vivax flipped green!", lynch on Toad
sounds a lot better than what you're saying
I'd count "not roleblocking Vivax when he's about to shoot town" (which is your entire point, what if slam is town) as the obvious thing to do for mafia and yet you say that is toally fine but for mafia to hope for a repeat of d1 is too obvious for them to do?
On March 25 2015 07:09 Superbia wrote: Like I am showing, with math, why it is the correct play for mafia to let both vigi KP go through if it's both on town. You get a possible d3 mylo with 2 huge question marks (vigis), which you will just leave alive for the rest of the game. SO EASY.
your entire point was that I'm mafia because mafia did not shoot into the vigs during n1...
KP is always nice for mafia but in the end a lynch on a townie is even better because that's effectively double the kills because you get the ML as well as a free night period (= more than just one failed vigshot) that you just got because of the ML. So keeping questionmarks alive for confusion is actually a thing, yeah
On March 25 2015 07:16 Superbia wrote: Like this should be mafia's perspective if slam is town and both vigis are real.
Town is calling for a shot on VE and slam. Both toad and vivax seem to comply.
What does mafia have to lose by not RBing and letting both shots go through?
I've explained what mafia has to gain, possible d3 mylo and 2 big question marks for misslynches.
I did not comply in the slightest wtf. I raged pretty hard at HF because I thought the plan was retarded and didn't know who I was shooting until after it happened and I got confirmation on it... and you think mafia had an idea who I was shooting?
On March 25 2015 07:16 Superbia wrote: Like this should be mafia's perspective if slam is town and both vigis are real.
Town is calling for a shot on VE and slam. Both toad and vivax seem to comply.
What does mafia have to lose by not RBing and letting both shots go through?
I've explained what mafia has to gain, possible d3 mylo and 2 big question marks for misslynches.
I did not comply in the slightest wtf. I raged pretty hard at HF because I thought the plan was retarded and didn't know who I was shooting until after it happened and I got confirmation on it... and you think mafia had an idea who I was shooting?
I thought it was pretty clear at EoN1? I recall you fighting HF on this during N1, but you seemed to be okayish with it EoN1. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong?
On March 22 2015 06:33 Toadesstern wrote: Okay Eden you're the only one I'm trusting right now. I'm not going to shoot VE. Period. Take that as me being serious. Do I shoot Onegu or do I listen to people?
Please forward all night actions to Blazinghand and myself at least 20 minutes prior to the daypost.
I did not get to change my shot... I shot VE
Why would you have wanted to change your shot, and what would have the real target been?
I was on Vivax -> Slam -> VE -> (Slam -> VE -> Slam)
in brackets what didn't count anymore. I said I'm not going to shoot VE and do my thing (shoot Vivax) got mad at HF, took a break for 5-10 minutes and in the end listened to Eden telling me to shoot VE despite my weak townread on him.
On March 25 2015 07:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Just went back to check and yeah I started going for the both shoot slam at :45. Someone phone Vivax!
yeah I remember that one because, looking at the time I said something along the lines of "eeeeh, it's not really about wether or not I'm willing to do it but about wether or not it's possible..."
On March 25 2015 08:49 Toadesstern wrote: I'm back, just had to make a 10k post. What did I miss
SL(?) shot Palmar with orb whom flipped scum. Vivax still tunneling me. We're wifoming over what roles scum could have to balance the game. Basically everything is as it was other than that we're closer to winning.
who mentioned that Palmar has been pushing me through all of D1 and tried to get me lynched over Vivax/BM d1 during EoD only to get a last second switch to BM when he had to?
On March 19 2015 12:44 Trfel wrote: Sorry, I meant, what implications do you think this has on Holyflare's alignment? (and maybe if it says anything about those who voted Alakaslam with him)
not sure yet. People can be wrong, that includes HF saying he's mafia and me saying he's unreadable that early in the game. Could be anything so far. HF pointing out that I play different is somewhat townish because as people pointed out I indeed am playing differentish (I guess) and I don't think a lot of people would actually doublecheck that so he's forgiven for that unlike Palmar who's doing it on purpose.
Toad, you've been on this a lot. What makes you think that it makes Palmar mafia?
Actually I'm back to lynching Palmar but good that you ask, I was about to explain it once more in more detail anyways:
Look at Hammertime and look at Palmars filter. I'm not asking you to read the game, just ctrl-f "Toad" in Palmars filter. Nothing else: Palmars Filter Please do it, that takes 5 minutes. No reading, just ctrl-f and going through some of the posts is already enough.
Realize that the reasoning for Palmar scumreading me in that game, when I was town was "idk, something's odd. I forgot what"
Realize my first post in JoaT was:
On March 03 2015 08:08 Toadesstern wrote: Fear not guyses for I have yet again rolled neither mafia nor Ninja. Thus I will proceed to kill all those mafias and not be mislynched d1 despite being called fucking confirmed town 24-36hours into the game.
Let me check real quick if Palmar is in the game
my first post in here was
On March 19 2015 08:18 Toadesstern wrote: sup guyses
For not for I have rolled town and I will lead us to glorious days of dancing under rainbows while lynching all of mafia. Gone are the days when I just showed that I'm blatantly town to everyone and lose nontheless because I trusted people that want to get attention.
For that I ask you to vote to become your mayor so we can slay all of mafia. The position of my personal sheriff is still open and I shall announce the guy or girl that gets that position soon!
compare them for a second
Look at Palmar and what he says about me this game and why I'm supposedly mafia:
On March 19 2015 09:02 Palmar wrote: I actually kinda sorta maybe believe my reasons for voting Toad. Both of the things I said are true.
#1 "guyses" is not a word any viable human being utters in a normal sentence. #2 He is half-assedly copying what was a much cooler play when he was town
On March 19 2015 08:22 Palmar wrote: Also I think Toad tried to get elected as a mayor (in a no election game) last time too, so technically he's maybe imitating his town game.
I've basicly copy & pasted that post as I've done in my last.... 5 or so games in a row, both as mafia as well as town. So why don't you go ahead and explain a little more in detail about what you think rather than just killing me for "I don't know, I forgot what I don't like about toad but he's mafia" like you did last time?
You used colors and formatting and didn't type "guyses" last time. In hindsight that was far more townie than this.
The chances of Palmar getting in here and saying that, without checking after what happened to him and me in Hammertime when we both were town are literally 0% if he is town and wasn't just trolling or trying to get reactions.
HF and everyone else whatever but Palmar would not just post that without at least giving one second of a thought about it and doublechecking after singlehandedly ruining a game because of a "Toad feels weird" read he did recently. No way. Not possible.
On March 25 2015 09:19 Damdred wrote: Vivax do you think Scum would rb you from killing Scum slam? How did LS and Palmar interact with slam?
Palmar didn't read slam at all from what I saw ona quick review, however he handed out TRs to Artanis and LS and his choir was to kill rayn and Toad during D1.
So I'm basicly still where I was a couple hours ago. Ritoky is certainly an option for today simply based on rayn even if he does look better than rayn, but that's not really that much of an accomplishment.
There's straight up no reason to not lynch Alakaslam.
Superbia I'm very wary but Eden apparently likes him for some reason... so maybe not today.
On March 25 2015 12:43 Toadesstern wrote: So I'm basicly still where I was a couple hours ago. Ritoky is certainly an option for today simply based on rayn even if he does look better than rayn, but that's not really that much of an accomplishment.
There's straight up no reason to not lynch Alakaslam.
Superbia I'm very wary but Eden apparently likes him for some reason... so maybe not today.
Slam it is?
lol what
I don't like Superbia at all, I just decided he might respond better to me posing my questions in a slightly less aggressive manner so I toned it down
mmmh, I thought you found some hidden gem in that recent post you just compared to a blowjob you're not willing to talk about for some reason.
Do you still think I'm mafia after Palmar the guy that nonstop pushed me d1, with lots of people mentioning that he wouldn't tell people to bus if he's mafia, flipped red btw?
so Onegu at 3 votes, Slam at 4 votes with me now, Artanis at 1.
Can we lynch superbia after all for voting Artanis?
I'd probably still like ritoky lynch the most, I just can't see rayn being town in this game. Palmar flipping red (who would have thought) who hard pushed me through all of d1 only makes rayn more juicy imo because he's done the same thing.
I guess Slam has that 5% random chance to just flip whatever the fuck he wants to flip no matter of his actual alignment... which makes it somewhat stupid but I honestly don't see that getting any better in the future
Looking back at Onegu I just don't see this story making sense. The whole point he's trying to sell (without saying it as far as I know) is that he tried to draw hits and that's why he fakeclaimed. Or so I'd assume. That's why HF innitially townread him and went along with the mason claim but who does that by getting in the thread and saying
On March 19 2015 11:06 Onegu wrote: I'm not here, I am not VT.
I mean no mafia ever takes that serious. But okay fine, maybe he's not the delicate tool around but why in the world did he get so mad at rsoultin protecting him?
If that was the entire point of the fakeclaim, to draw hits, why would he get mad at someone thinking he's about to get shot? That just doesn't add up. And there's just nothing on d1 that makes it look like he ACTUALLY tried to look townish to actually get hit. There was no effort whatsoever, just the cheap fakeclaim no mafia would ever believe and that's it.
On March 25 2015 20:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also we should still lynch Onegu because I find it unexplainable why after getting a million blueclaims Onegu doesn't go "hey guys I'm not actually mason so you should be able to trust the other claims" when the very fact of all these blueclaims started to worry us.
yeah that too. I mean I could totally see him waiting until n1 over, but d2? There was just no way any mafia would shoot Onegu during n2. He could have come clean way sooner.
you do realize that if you ever flip mafia I'm going to look horrible for all those ridiculous situations where we say exactly the same thing within 60 seconds or so.
On March 26 2015 04:58 Trfel wrote: I think that Onegu's mason claiming doesn't say he is town.
Imagine if Onegu claimed mason with Holyflare on Day 1, and then Holyflare responded "What? I'm not a mason." That would say nothing at all about Onegu's alignment. So, Onegu's mason claim with Holyflare has no downside. And Onegu has two potential positives for doing this. If Holyflare accepts, Onegu gets a free pass through Day 1 and Night 1. And regardless of what Holyflare does, Onegu shows that he is willing to fake-claim mason, thereby giving him an out from all mason claims he makes for the rest of the game.
Then Onegu claimed mason with raynpelikoneet. Regardless of raynpelikoneet's alignment, I think this is a poor move for town here. Rereading Onegu's filter in this section, he seems very determined in this statement. And he provided a false breadcrumb. He is much more determined about this mason claim than he was with his previous mason claim with Holyflare. His explanation for this is that he was certain of raynpelikoneet being town, and was defending him in this way. If he is this certain of raynpelikoneet being town, then he ought to explain this read, instead of just claiming mason. And Onegu I don't think Onegu ever explains this read. Basically, this is a bad play for town, as it provides false information. I also note that Onegu said he hadn't read over half the game, so how is he sure enough in his townread of raynpelikoneet that he claimed in such a convincing manner, while most people were very suspicious of raynpelikoneet at this time?
Since then, Onegu rescinded his mason claim.
I don't recall Onegu doing much else of note.
My conclusion is that Onegu is scum here. I don't see why his play has any benefit for town, and claiming mason is a very low-risk play for scum. Ignoring his claims, Onegu hasn't done very much.
I'm scumreading Onegu right now regardless of raynpelikoneet/ritoky's alignment, but I think there's a good chance that they are scum together.
this one needs more attention because it's damn right.
That being said 5:20 am and I'm slowly getting my brainpower started. Someone want to explain to me why we're not lynching between Onegu/Slam anymore and it's moved on to FF?
@the above science: Except for some single cases where it's just too extreme to make sense for them to be mafia I don't really like post-count analysis for this game. It's a big game already thus by the very nature of that people WILL have more than average postcounts or otherwise it would not have become such a big game... so unless it's Vivax / Artanis I honestly couldn't care less about that.
On March 26 2015 13:32 Eden1892 wrote: ._. the formula explicitly adjusts for big games
actually it does but only one way if I understood it correctly? I could see people giving up hope after logging into TL and seeing they have to read 100 new pages, as both alignments
On March 26 2015 13:32 Eden1892 wrote: ._. the formula explicitly adjusts for big games
actually it does but only one way if I understood it correctly? I could see people giving up hope after logging into TL and seeing they have to read 100 new pages, as both alignments
oh what I meant with "big" isn't amount of players, but rather even for the amount of players it's an abomination with way too much to read.
I'm pretty sure mafia is working on wifom at this time... with how Vivax went after me, with how people are going after Arty right now it seems like mafia is banking on that later on. I agree Vivax is 99% likely to be town at this point and he's not doing it on purpose but that seems to be the strategy for mafia here. Maybe get 1 ML out of that list of 5, make people paranoid. Get a mafia lynched next day and maybe the 2nd ML after that and suddenly we have weird theories floating all around about how Artanis/damd have to be mafia and it gets scary.
On March 26 2015 14:37 Toadesstern wrote: I'm pretty sure mafia is working on wifom at this time... with how Vivax went after me, with how people are going after Arty right now it seems like mafia is banking on that later on. I agree Vivax is 99% likely to be town at this point and he's not doing it on purpose but that seems to be the strategy for mafia here. Maybe get 1 ML out of that list of 5, make people paranoid. Get a mafia lynched next day and maybe the 2nd ML after that and suddenly we have weird theories floating all around about how Artanis/damd have to be mafia and it gets scary.
Only one I can think of is super? I think Trfel also mentioned Artanis, besides, arguments have been presented so it's not just paranoia. I feel like Artanis was pretty much in line with scum agenda whenever I scumread a scum, he'd either waffle on it or have another opinion (See his LS read against mine and how it changes when he talks with FF about it or when I bring up Palmar at night).
Be back later.
is there a case against him or a summary of what people don't like that isn't from superbia? Because I saw that and just straight up didn't read it because I want to lynch superbia anyways and think it's from mafia.
I'm not saying people are trying to get him lynched today, I'm saying people (superbia) are trying to get that into peoples minds for maybe day 4 or 5 and see how likely that's going to happen.
I mean we had that moment where we posted within 60 seconds of each other during d2 when we tried to finalize that poe list and his list was EXACTLY the same as mine. Mafias usually come to slightly different reads for a reason. They have tmi and think someone is "obviously town" or "obviously mafia" for some reason when it's clearly not obvious to anyone that doesn't have that information. Same thing can be seen with hosts and co-hosts in post-game talk. There was NOTHING of the sort.
On March 26 2015 09:57 Alakaslam wrote: Why is Vivax claim assumed to be true? Why is a blue heavy setup assumed?
This is what i was reffering to. As Rso did not jail exo we can not 100% confirm that there was a role blocker. Which if she had we very most likely could have.
From someone who hasn't ead much of the game slam i think it would be useful fo you to decide weather or not the scum team has a RB. It is obviously very likely that they do. Idc if this is all wifom but what was the RB doing N1 if he was not role-blocking vivax.
Also damdred i said the LS thing before the BM lynch. I honestly can not remember why i didn't come back to it during N1 it might have been because rso convinced me otherwise or because talk was mainly domianted about the vig claims and what not. This would have been the only time for me to bring it up again because trefel came out early with a tracker claim.
Also if you are going to use the fact that palmar basically ignored me this game as a part of a reason to scumread me what is your read on FF because can the same not be said about him. I think I have been mainly passed over by a lot of people this game not for a fault in them but because ive been uninteresting and have done nothing. This was apart of the original reason i townread you damdred because you were the first person to bring me up for legitimate reasons and not just pass me over.
Vivax could BE the rb.
Come on, srs
Okay. So do you think he RB'd toad? or just randomly used the RB to hunt for other PR's?
Holy fuck how stupid do you think I am? Toad shot went through. He wasn't blocked. Wow.
Anyone could have been rb if rb isn't notified, but since it is Vivax would have to be scum with scum withholding rb. Although anyone else rb last night, EH?
Rstoulin might have been rbed last night because mafia took out both are roles and didnt try to medic dodge. Infact she had to have been .
what he was saying:
"what if Vivax didn't get roleblocked n1 because Toad shot VE. Meanwhile they used their real RB (Vivax) on someone else and Vivax just fakeclaimed the whole thing and they actually roleblocked someone entirely different n1, a blueread they had"
Possible in theory, but highly unlikely with Vivax activity
On March 26 2015 20:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I like Eden's list. I kinda wanna lynch Superbia first and hope he's scum just to force Vivax to shut up, though he'd probably find some theory in which it's a bus.
Lol I find it hilarious how much I annoy you.
Why don't you help me lynching Slam? Asking to use the orb on him can be said for any other guy who's in the crossfire and won't get lynched today, which is why Damdred's argument was weird.
I'm starting to suspect you're suspecting me just to annoy me at this point.
I'm okay with a Slamfish lynch too but I think I can actually make a good case on Superbia. I went through the first bit of his filter on the toilet and it looks pretty scummy.
So, Artanis, the rest of the time where you've been scumreading me was without having checked out my filter?
I haven't been scumreading you besides on PoE.
So what have you been doing this game? How are you so active yet you have not been analyzing the alignment of people deemed scummy?
There are people who just trust their PoE more than their scumreads. I'm another one of those guys. I've not actually done that much scumhunting besides my case on Palmar/Artanis/Vivax d1 and mini-cases on a couple guys here and there because I'm a lot more confident in my ability to figure out town and go on from there. Artanis already said it's the same for him.
yeah but I'm the only one on Onegu right now besides... FF. That's one of the guys I want to deliver some lynching too as well. Not exactly the most juicy looking lynch right now.
On March 26 2015 23:41 Toadesstern wrote: I want you lynched a lot more than him but if only Artanis is voting you there's not really a point in putting my vote there
On March 26 2015 23:41 Toadesstern wrote: I want you lynched a lot more than him but if only Artanis is voting you there's not really a point in putting my vote there
So, you think I'm scum?
yes
Why.
Mostly PoE, seconly you going after me with bullshit reasoning and going after Artanis afterwards thus:
On March 25 2015 20:13 Toadesstern wrote: so Onegu at 3 votes, Slam at 4 votes with me now, Artanis at 1.
Can we lynch superbia after all for voting Artanis?
I'd probably still like ritoky lynch the most, I just can't see rayn being town in this game. Palmar flipping red (who would have thought) who hard pushed me through all of d1 only makes rayn more juicy imo because he's done the same thing.
On March 26 2015 23:41 Toadesstern wrote: I want you lynched a lot more than him but if only Artanis is voting you there's not really a point in putting my vote there
So, you think I'm scum?
yes
Why.
Mostly PoE, seconly you going after me with bullshit reasoning and going after Artanis afterwards thus:
On March 25 2015 20:13 Toadesstern wrote: so Onegu at 3 votes, Slam at 4 votes with me now, Artanis at 1.
Can we lynch superbia after all for voting Artanis?
I'd probably still like ritoky lynch the most, I just can't see rayn being town in this game. Palmar flipping red (who would have thought) who hard pushed me through all of d1 only makes rayn more juicy imo because he's done the same thing.
I went after you with bullshit reasoning? What's the PoE? What are your circles?
On March 26 2015 23:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Toad, you should go through Palmar's filter and check out his interactions with Rayn. I think it makes it pretty unlikely the Rayn slot is scum.
did Palmar do something besides shitting on me during the game? Fine, I'll take a look
On March 26 2015 10:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Okay after checking Breshke's scumgames he seems much more aggressive in them, calling people out and being very certain of himself which is in contrast to both his last two towngames and this game so he goes into townpile.
this time I ninja'd you! Yeah agree, he's way less likely to be mafia but I didn't want to call him a null (white) and I didn't want to make another colour when I already got yellow, orange and red so I just added that myself
Palmar/rayn interactions make it somewhat more unlikely for rayn be town but he never put his vote where his mouth was, even when there were times when rayn looked like a possible lynch such as:
On March 20 2015 14:10 Half the Sky wrote: Day 1: Current Vote Count
On March 27 2015 00:07 Toadesstern wrote: Palmar/rayn interactions make it somewhat more unlikely for rayn be town but he never put his vote where his mouth was, even when there were times when rayn looked like a possible lynch such as:
I was honestly starting to like Slam in the last 12 or so hours as well as the first 12 hours. He looked really bad inbetween, for example last day and when he told people to lynch him like he already gave up. Today it looked like townslam. That's what I meant with I need more time to read Slam... I'm just not sure at all about him. I'm seeing what I consider to be both of his alignments from time to time
On March 27 2015 00:35 Superbia wrote: One of the problems I (and many others) had with Slam is that he started off this game very serious after having a very loose and "chupazi" pregame. I also know that this would be his 3rd (?) mafia in a row, after the previous game hosted by HtS (where he rolled mafia for the second time after a reroll). I don't honestly know why Slam has felt so bitter this game, it kind of makes me feel bad if I read him scum (which I think he very well could be).
thing is, he has stated multiple times that he wants to get lynched and wants to give up and yet has come back in the thread posting like he doesn't give a fuck about what people are saying about him. Especially in the conversation he had.
He doesn't strike me as someone who fakes emotions as mafia at all. If he's angry he's angry. Getting a sack of sleep and comming back rejuvenated to some degree that he can just do his thing without caring all too much actually makes sense.
On March 27 2015 00:07 Toadesstern wrote: Palmar/rayn interactions make it somewhat more unlikely for rayn be town but he never put his vote where his mouth was, even when there were times when rayn looked like a possible lynch such as:
On March 27 2015 00:44 Trfel wrote: I already stated why I don't think that Onegu fake-claiming mason is something that is bad for mafia to do. Therefore, I am inclined to think that Onegu is scum for the following reasons:
At the start of Day 2, Onegu says that mafia wouldn't double stack due to the possibility of a medic. However, 23 minutes later, he says that rsoultin is mafia for making a weird save, when due to the large number of other claimed blues, the mafia would never have done a medic dodge.
Onegu's scumread on rsoultin doesn't make much sense. This read is conditional on one of the vigilantes being mafia. Onegu indirectly states that Toadesstern is mafia (through quoting one of raynpelikoneet's posts), but never really pushes Toadesstern at all. I would expect town to push Toadesstern first, and then rsoultin second (especially given that Toadesstern used his bullet, and rsoultin is claimed jailkeeper).
Onegu says that raynpelikoneet's tracker claim is genuine, but knows that raynpelikoneet always fake-claims. This is a weak point, though.
Apparently Onegu has a soul read on raynpelikoneet, so I can't really scumread him for fake-claiming mason with him, despite the large amount of confusion this caused. However, before the mason claim, Onegu never really defended raynpelikoneet, despite the pressure he was under. After the mason claim, Onegu didn't defend raynpelikoneet until significantly later. If Onegu was confident enough in raynpelikoneet being town, he should have defended him after raynpelikoneet stated that he was tracker, and not mason. If Onegu didn't think it was worth defending raynpelikoneet until later, when he actually did start defending him, then he should have claimed mason then instead. The disconnect between claiming mason with raynpelikoneet and actually defending him doesn't make sense to me.
However, I'm not sure if he will be back before the deadline. And with his son recently having gone through surgery, today is the very worst day to push him. Although objectively, I think he is the best lynch, I am not sure if pushing him today is the best idea.
It's dumb to double stack in a large game period.
A lot of my reads are gut based. Doesn't matter how I got to them not a scum tell
thought a non tracker Rayn would go with my mason claim
Didn't read rayn's filter until then so I didn't have my soul read on him until then
so you knew from the start that Rayn was fakeclaiming, as a result claimed mason buddy with rayn because you thought he'd go along. Then faked your read on him as well as your mafia read on me based on "Rayn is telling the truth, so you or Vivax have to be fakeclaiming" ?
On March 27 2015 00:44 Trfel wrote: I already stated why I don't think that Onegu fake-claiming mason is something that is bad for mafia to do. Therefore, I am inclined to think that Onegu is scum for the following reasons:
At the start of Day 2, Onegu says that mafia wouldn't double stack due to the possibility of a medic. However, 23 minutes later, he says that rsoultin is mafia for making a weird save, when due to the large number of other claimed blues, the mafia would never have done a medic dodge.
Onegu's scumread on rsoultin doesn't make much sense. This read is conditional on one of the vigilantes being mafia. Onegu indirectly states that Toadesstern is mafia (through quoting one of raynpelikoneet's posts), but never really pushes Toadesstern at all. I would expect town to push Toadesstern first, and then rsoultin second (especially given that Toadesstern used his bullet, and rsoultin is claimed jailkeeper).
Onegu says that raynpelikoneet's tracker claim is genuine, but knows that raynpelikoneet always fake-claims. This is a weak point, though.
Apparently Onegu has a soul read on raynpelikoneet, so I can't really scumread him for fake-claiming mason with him, despite the large amount of confusion this caused. However, before the mason claim, Onegu never really defended raynpelikoneet, despite the pressure he was under. After the mason claim, Onegu didn't defend raynpelikoneet until significantly later. If Onegu was confident enough in raynpelikoneet being town, he should have defended him after raynpelikoneet stated that he was tracker, and not mason. If Onegu didn't think it was worth defending raynpelikoneet until later, when he actually did start defending him, then he should have claimed mason then instead. The disconnect between claiming mason with raynpelikoneet and actually defending him doesn't make sense to me.
However, I'm not sure if he will be back before the deadline. And with his son recently having gone through surgery, today is the very worst day to push him. Although objectively, I think he is the best lynch, I am not sure if pushing him today is the best idea.
It's dumb to double stack in a large game period.
A lot of my reads are gut based. Doesn't matter how I got to them not a scum tell
thought a non tracker Rayn would go with my mason claim
Didn't read rayn's filter until then so I didn't have my soul read on him until then
so you knew from the start that Rayn was fakeclaiming, as a result claimed mason buddy with rayn because you thought he'd go along. Then faked your read on him as well as your mafia read on me based on "Rayn is telling the truth, so you or Vivax have to be fakeclaiming" ?
Am I understanding this correctly?
Wait what. Did Onegu base his reads on us on the premise that he and rayn are masons?
no but he was talking about how genuine his claim was and how he believed it if I'm not mixing him up with someone else right now... lemme look that up real quick
On March 23 2015 13:31 Toadesstern wrote: not to mention that the whole thing required rsoultin and me to be mafia together and both fakeclaim blue and ... just hope that there's no real jailer?
But hey, rayn's tracker claim is totally legit
I think it is. Rayn claim that is.
Plus with all the blue claims already why not fake claim. Like if mafia has like 4 goons they know.it's a low PR game and with multiple claims.already...
Onegu, can you clarify the bolded please?
I thought Rayn was tracker
that's from when you were talking about why you don't like me during n2 I think... and you just said you believed he was tracker.,..
On March 23 2015 13:31 Toadesstern wrote: not to mention that the whole thing required rsoultin and me to be mafia together and both fakeclaim blue and ... just hope that there's no real jailer?
But hey, rayn's tracker claim is totally legit
I think it is. Rayn claim that is.
Plus with all the blue claims already why not fake claim. Like if mafia has like 4 goons they know.it's a low PR game and with multiple claims.already...
if you thought from the first one that the claim was fake and didn't believe rayn, your posts detailing why Rayn is mafia and why I am mafia are faked as well because you base them on Rayn being tracker.
On March 22 2015 17:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: I tracked Vivax he didn't do anything. ##vote LighntingStrike
On March 22 2015 08:59 rsoultin wrote: well that implicates rayn too xP
After this lynch this,.
Oops.totes.missed this post
Look at the date and time of this post. This is the point I believed rayn's claim. Before this I thought it was fake. After I thought was real
ooooh, I thought you meant the other way around as in you started out with believing him and at that point you realized it was fake... but I still don't like this:
On March 23 2015 12:53 Onegu wrote: You dumb dumbs lynch me before Rayn. When I flip mason you lynch toad when he flips scum you lynch rsoul.
Town soul read on Rayn. Scum read on you and Raul... My death would show me as town and I thought make you scum but my logic was wrong
I mean you know you're not going to flip mason. So why lie about that in that situation? You could have as well just said "once I flip town" or whatever else. This just doesn't feel like you fakeclaimed to get something good out of it at all and just strengthens my believe that you did it just for you, hence using it to get me lynched when you even knew yourself you're not mason
On March 27 2015 03:17 Vivax wrote: Toad you know the people on the Onegu wagon look awful. It's time to switch to the bright side.
what if that's exactly their plan?
Kidding aside, I'm considering it. Saekano-11 and 12 is going to be out in 10 minutes so I'll probably make a decision in about 1:30 hours when I'm done watching that
On March 27 2015 04:45 ritoky wrote: i kinda want to lynch damdred or onegu.
damdred mentioned onegu so little in his filter, basically not even regarding his existence that it just reeks of partners ignoring eachother. if i am wrong and 1 of them flips town, then i am probably wrong on both of them and the other 1 is clear imo.
that's pretty shitty reason to vote anyone. There's a crapton of people I ignore in most games just because I don't have a lot of games played with them while mostly sticking and talking to the guys that I know for 1+ years in games if there are such people.
man I'm almost falling asleep.. waking up 5am was not a good idea. I'll probably make my final decision within 30min or so, can't even be bothered to watch final Saekano episode. Just as an fyi
meh, not the best lynch but not the worst one either. He was on most people's poe lists and I've fairly sure we would have lynched him either way a little more down the road. Better to do it now than to have to deal with it in some scary lylo situation.
Why are people claiming orb when mafia killed cop / medic last cycle when I already explained last night that people need to shut the fuck up about the orb and not let mafia know who has it / what they're doing with it?
We got lucky last night because they apparently had to RB the medic to get rid of the cop but why would you claim to have the orb this night...
On March 28 2015 00:23 Vivax wrote: I don't read anything into the fuck you're town,except that Fecal didn't seem happy to say it?
Here's how I see it. Mafia already know who's town and who's scum so they don't really come into a sudden insight. Town definitely can, and it feels like as he was reading he came to this realization. That's how the whole exchange felt to me.
except that this is a text based forum and not voice mafia.
No matter how you look at it that post can not have been sudden and he has done it at least somewhat intentionally. He can come to a sudden insight as town but that that doesn't mean he has to make a post like that because by nature of doing that it's not sudden anymore and he's going through what he's going to type out at.
The post is at best slightly townish because it shows willingness to open up his state of mind. The rest about it is just whatever.
So if you think that post means something you should ask yourself wether he did that post intentionally for comedic purpose or intentionally to look like he's "realistic" in that his reads change.
On March 28 2015 00:23 Vivax wrote: I don't read anything into the fuck you're town,except that Fecal didn't seem happy to say it?
Here's how I see it. Mafia already know who's town and who's scum so they don't really come into a sudden insight. Town definitely can, and it feels like as he was reading he came to this realization. That's how the whole exchange felt to me.
except that this is a text based forum and not voice mafia.
No matter how you look at it that post can not have been sudden and he has done it at least somewhat intentionally. He can come to a sudden insight as town but that that doesn't mean he has to make a post like that because by nature of doing that it's not sudden anymore and he's going through what he's going to type out at.
The post is at best slightly townish because it shows willingness to open up his state of mind. The rest about it is just whatever.
If you post in a stream of consciousness as I usually do and you type fast, it's pretty much instant. I regularly post things that come up to me without thinking about it. That's how that felt to me too.
but I'd say even if the situation is him being town, in that situation he's doing it on purpose for comedic reasons, which is why I meant it's about wether it's that or him trying to look like he's changing reads.
It's not like you think a lot about it, but you come to a realization which, given the situation, makes you laugh out because it was a shitty one for him and the change of mind itself would have been somewhat sudden (there probably was a lead-up to it but it felt sudden). And you jokingly deal with it that way mentally. I'd still not call it something sudden unless it's voice or video mafia. At least that's what it's like for me when I make posts like that.
On March 28 2015 00:23 Vivax wrote: I don't read anything into the fuck you're town,except that Fecal didn't seem happy to say it?
Here's how I see it. Mafia already know who's town and who's scum so they don't really come into a sudden insight. Town definitely can, and it feels like as he was reading he came to this realization. That's how the whole exchange felt to me.
except that this is a text based forum and not voice mafia.
No matter how you look at it that post can not have been sudden and he has done it at least somewhat intentionally. He can come to a sudden insight as town but that that doesn't mean he has to make a post like that because by nature of doing that it's not sudden anymore and he's going through what he's going to type out at.
The post is at best slightly townish because it shows willingness to open up his state of mind. The rest about it is just whatever.
If you post in a stream of consciousness as I usually do and you type fast, it's pretty much instant. I regularly post things that come up to me without thinking about it. That's how that felt to me too.
but I'd say even if the situation is him being town, in that situation he's doing it on purpose for comedic reasons, which is why I meant it's about wether it's that or him trying to look like he's changing reads.
It's not like you think a lot about it, but you come to a realization which, given the situation, makes you laugh out because it was a shitty one for him and the change of mind itself would have been somewhat sudden (there probably was a lead-up to it but it felt sudden). And you jokingly deal with it that way mentally. I'd still not call it something sudden unless it's voice or video mafia. At least that's what it's like for me when I make posts like that.
I feel like this is semantics though (regarding the word "sudden"). Sure, the way he delivered it was comedic, but it felt genuine in that I can recognize myself coming to such a realization as well, and that I find it much easier to imagine such a thing as town than as mafia.
but that's a difference. If you think it's genuine that's fine and that's what you should have pointed out. The statement itself just isn't alignment indicative by itself. It's the tone and situation that makes you think it's genuine here.
I mean I agree with it slightly pointing towards town but we're running out of people that we're willing to lynch at this point and have to take into consideration that some of those small tone-reads can be faked, especially if (I think it was Eden?) doesn't want to lynch ritoky either.
On March 28 2015 02:13 Eden1892 wrote: Seriously I need to just afk at deadlines once I decide on a lynch. Way too vulnerable to AtE at the end.
I'd probably go with Superbia / ritoky / Fecalfeast if I had to pick a team right now. Superbia for aforementioned reasons, ritoky for dropping off the face of the planet once he was given a day to prove himself town, Fecalfeast because I tend to weigh the tone argument across the whole game higher than the tone argument in the one exchange with rsoultin.
that's a given and that needs more attention. Townreads, especially based on tone early on, are something that may develope due to a specific reason, but in the end they're a bag of tons and tons of small townreads you should have on someone. There is almost no such thing as "one post that proves someone is town because of the tone of it" and as such it should be treated as an overarching read.
They don't work like mafiareads in that a single slip or weird post/attitude can be enough to prove someone mafia.
I don't particularly like giving mafia info during the night by policy, as I've already mentioned at least 3 times in this game... if I make it alive you can ask me tomorrow
On March 28 2015 02:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote: You can post it in the 20 min that actions can no longer be changed Toad.
I can give you an update of my sheet, I'm still working by PoE and feel fairly confident that there's at most 5 people that can be mafia.
Last 20 minutes havn't really been working for me the last couple days ever since I changed my sleep schedule to get used to waking up earlier again, thus waking up at 5am and not usually staying up until 24:00.
Well sorry, I mentioned this earlier and didn't think it would be an issue:
On March 22 2015 10:41 Toadesstern wrote: is tomorrow early afternoon already today?
My sleep schedule is really fucked up right now But I have a final on the 30th and will probably have to tone down a little like 27th up to 30th so yeah the sooner the better.
As a heads up, I'm probably going to try and stay up on the 29th as that's deadline day and the final itself isn't thaaat early but don't count on me being there until the last hour...
figured I'd not get shot after quoting again that I'm having a final on the 30ths
Anyways:
On March 28 2015 07:56 Eden1892 wrote: Legacy post
Lynch out of Superbia, FF, ritoky, Breshke. Be skeptical of the orb user. Question them extensively on their choice rationale and result
That's where I'm at as well. Maybe damdred if shit goes down south badly. Breshke I don't really want to lynch today, FF I could myself getting onto but I'd prefere the lynch between Superbia and ritoky for today.
Looking back at d1/n1 with the info we now have, writing this down as if I'm looking down on me from someone else position:
The wagons where on LS at some point but mostly between BM, Vivax and Toad. We also "know" that Vivax shot Alakaslam and got roleblocked We also "know" that Toad shot VE We also "know" that mafia probably wanted BM dead over Vivax and Toad by virtue of Palmar switching over last second when he had all the reasons he needed to tell us he keeps on tunneling me resulting in a Vivax-lynch.
What we get from that is that mafia probably felt pretty safe to at least get that d2 lynch, why else would Palmar risk that voteswitch? Most likely explanation is that they rb'ed Vivax on purpose for confusion. Both to not lose a possible as well as easy mislynch in Alakaslam (as we've seen last day) as well as getting the "wait, how do we know Vivax isn't just lying?" reaction when only 3 people flip starting d2. People getting mad that HFs plan did not give any information about the vigs alignment and all. They probably either shot into protection (Onegu) or were stopped from killing someone (Onegu). That specific issue isn't something for this post but just for completeness sake.
As such I think that mafia really did feel good. While Rayn/ritoky are an option for today it's a little hard to believe for me that him being mafia leads to mafia thinking they're good to get the ML on d2 no matter what, when a lynch on Toad or Vivax should have made them think that'd give a lot more traction for another ML in whoever did not get lynched that day. Just think about people shouting "Aaaah, Vivax flipped town, lynch Toad!" or "Aaaah, 'Toad flipped town, lynch Vivax!". That seems like the easier ML to get to me. Rayn was scumread by HF, who flipped that night and people went back to read HF that night because of it. Maybe they thought the lynch was so set in stone between Vivax and Toad that they can take that risk and go for the confusion RB to keep Alakaslam alive as a mislynch but the more plausible answer should be that none of the mafias was in serious danger of getting lynched d1 imo. I'm fairly confident that had we not gotten that track result on LightningStrike we probably would have lynched Rayn that day after Vivax and I calmed down. At the VERY least he was a serious contender for some lynching comming his way.
Eden is probably just the better player and way more influential than trfel? If anything Eden being shot should make you think they want him dead because his reads over Trfel if you really think Trfel should have died instead.
Oh right, I forgot about the fact that noone had an idea on who was about to get shot. I stay with my conlclusion that they wanted to frame one of us and keep either VE or Slam, as a possible mislynch though. Just that mafia probably didn't know which one it would be and didn't care. Both could have easily been lynched with how they looked. We shot them for a reason after all.
About the "clouding the discussion", could be, especially if they already knew they're going to shoot HF and get him (?). He made the lynch switch to BM and could have been they were scared he'd be able to get that done on d2 as well (assuming he survives / they don't shoot him).
I mean my entire point is that getting BM was apparently valued higher than Vivax or Toad so I don't disagree with that. I just think that if Mafia was desperate and scared to lose someone d2 going for either of the two vigs on the d1 lynch would have been the safer play for them? And as I say that I realized that all of Superbia, Vivax, Breshke, raynpelikoneet, Palmar (holy fuck that took forever) were late switchers as well and not just Palmar
On March 29 2015 02:09 Vivax wrote: BUT THATS THE THING. Eden didn't say anything me, Artanis or Toad weren't already suggesting. Between us, I don't see any read of his that could have been much more different than ours.
what if those reads are correct and mafia simply has to start shooting somewhere?
yeah same. Was pretty sure Eden would get killed. That aside Breshke might not look as good as I thought he did
He was the 3rd last on BM on D1 with everything being
On March 21 2015 07:33 Breshke wrote: I am also backing your plan HF. Also superbia easy townread now
I,ll end up switching to BM because i like the plan more but i have no fuckin idea on that guy. Why not SL instead?
I think I gave him a slight townread earlier because I read that as " Why not SL instead?" as LS and not SL... just took a look at wether he ever put his vote down that way, he never did and then realized he's talking about SL and not LS lol
so plan for me tomorrow is to get my shit done during the day and leave the last hour of the day for mafia. I might post sporadically during the day but I'm probably not going to do more than read inbetween breaks and I'll make sure to be here properly in the last hour to get my vote in the way I want it.
On March 29 2015 10:42 Superbia wrote: I need to go to sleep soon. Ritoky, from your perspective, if you're town, Rayn fakeclaiming Tracker and not getting RBed (seemingly) nor getting put KP on should influence your reads. From your perspective, a confirmed town fake claimed a cop role and did not get answered whatsoever. In fact, they chose to roleblock a Vigi. Why are you not questioning this vigi?
no idea what you're talking about. didn't read any of it. and why should my predecessor's retarded play influence my reads? he did a bunch of stupid shit and ppl wanted to lynch him. only thing that informs my opinion is my role pm and reads.
1. Rayn claims tracker at EoD1, no CCs. 2. Vivax claims Vigi at EoD1, toad CCs. [NIGHT] 3. Vigi targets are discussed. Slam is brought up. VE is half brought up. Both are town. [NIGHT RESOLVES, and 2 KP is revealed] 4. Toads KP (seemingly) goes through on VE. 5. Vivax claims to be RBed, as his KP did not go through on slam. 6. RSO claims jailkeep on Onegu. <- suspected KP reduction.
Now, you have to ask yourself: why did scum not do anything about rayn who claimed tracker? A number of options: 1. Onegu is scum, and was carrying KP on rayn. The jailkeeper action from RSO prevented him from delivering KP. 2. Vivax is scum, and it was in scum's favor to forego the roleblock so they could explain the lack of KP. 3. Scum had a god-read on rayn, and were confident enough to let an un-cced tracker go unchecked into the night.
Granted that Rayn was yelling about how I am 100% confirmed mafia and need some lynching comming for me that is actually a pretty decent explanation right there... The 2nd one seems pretty unlikely, the first one is certainly possible.
Why point this out without comming to a conclusion or at least leading some way on how you think about it? If anything this gives us more confusion about what you think while making it look like you do something while all you do is point out the obvious.
On March 29 2015 18:03 Breshke wrote: Also iirc did rayn not say in thread that he was going tot rack one of the vigis? If both vigis are town then mafia wouldn't care about him
yeah he did. I was actually quite surprised that he tracked Vivax instead of me considering how hard he tunneled me but he did in fact go back and say he'll pick one of us two (instead of just picking me).
okay read up on the other couple posts. I expected something and all I got was some association-play, mostly from people I want to lynch as well as Artanis...
I don't think I'm getting anything out of this either way. I still think superbia is the best lynch for today, I think Onegu looks a tiny bit better for that statement when he says that he blocked a KP, so yeah probably Super/Breshke/FF at this point for me.
On March 30 2015 06:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Not right now but I'd just like more people trying to figure the game out, making sure if their reads make sense, look for shit everywhere and not just idle all the time. It bothers me even if it looks like PoE is looking good.
well figured that might happen after Eden died and I had a busy day because of finals (in literally 10 hours). I'm going to pick it up around 18:00 CET tomorrow when I should be home again but I don't think I'm going to change my vote today nor do I think I'm going to start to re-look into other people anymore. But yeah we really had nothing happening this cycle...
I honestly don't know what to make of the people that are voting people that have literally 1 vote. That's throwing your vote away at this point and unwillingness to take a stance. Pick someone between superbia and Breshke or make a point why either of the two are so horrible votes that you're not even willing to lynch them by PoE.
so what we get from this is that some people are more willing to lynch FF instead? When trying to lynch Super people want to throw away their vote on weird 1vote-guys?
I think we lynch Superbia after all. This is getting us nowhere
On March 30 2015 07:38 Breshke wrote: Toad what are you on about the people that were "throwing away" their vote are still doing it except for me whow as voting ff intially so of course im not throwing away my vote now? I have no idea how you have made that conclusion
Breshke was on 2 before that, yes. Just wanted to see what people want to vote idk.
We had a lot of people that were saying all kinds of "idk" and suddenly everyone is fine with FF out of nowhere without a second of a thought while we had plenty of argumentation for Supersoft. Not really about votes but about attitude here.
On March 30 2015 07:38 Breshke wrote: Toad what are you on about the people that were "throwing away" their vote are still doing it except for me whow as voting ff intially so of course im not throwing away my vote now? I have no idea how you have made that conclusion
Breshke was on 2 before that, yes. Just wanted to see what people want to vote idk.
We had a lot of people that were saying all kinds of "idk" and suddenly everyone is fine with FF out of nowhere without a second of a thought while we had plenty of argumentation for Supersoft. Not really about votes but about attitude here.
##vote superbia
This makes no sense from your PoV you are talking about the attitude of people OUTSIDE your PoE. You are reading them town why does their attitude matter?
I was mostly trying to get info about Onegu. You thought I was trying to get info about you.
I actually wouldn't mind Breshke lynched at all right now. His first reaction what "Toad is trying to see how >>>I<<< react" and not "how people react"
On March 30 2015 07:48 Toadesstern wrote: and you literally answered with
On March 30 2015 07:29 Breshke wrote: I bet you taod thinks me and FF are partners and that im going to bitch out or something
as first thing
If me and FF were partners i probably wouldn't post this because id be shit scared of how it made me look
I wasn't even implying that you and FF have to be partners, just that we have a lot of people that aren't willing to put their votes down where it matters, implying that some people in the PoE are so bad of a lynch that they're not willing to lynch into it.
the thing is... I think the next day will be useless no matter of Breshke's alignment if we lynch him and super stays alive. I think we need to pull through at this point and rather use this stuff for the next cycle
We're lynching Superbia tonight. Get back on Superbia.
We can discuss Breshke next cycle together with all the other people. I don't want to make that call right now. Superbia is more deadweight that will just get lynched the next day no matter what.
On March 30 2015 06:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Not right now but I'd just like more people trying to figure the game out, making sure if their reads make sense, look for shit everywhere and not just idle all the time. It bothers me even if it looks like PoE is looking good.
well figured that might happen after Eden died and I had a busy day because of finals (in literally 10 hours). I'm going to pick it up around 18:00 CET tomorrow when I should be home again but I don't think I'm going to change my vote today nor do I think I'm going to start to re-look into other people anymore. But yeah we really had nothing happening this cycle...
so yeah as long as it's around that time or later. But I'm going to bed now, should not have stayed up this long to begin with.
Actually I don't think I'll make it 18:00 CET... that'd be assuming no traffic jam and teleporting from my flat to my car when it's in reality it's a 30 minute walk... so I'll probably start posting something around 19:00 and you can join in 22:00
Okay just got home and saw those big posts from Artanis. First things first I agree with the reads and include Artanis in there as well. He himself is probably around the level of Trfel and Sicklucker for me. I'd rate Sicklucker a little higher simply because while what Artanis mentioned could be the case, Sicklucker using the Orb against Palmar as mafia himself, I just don't think mafia would pick Sicklucker out of all the people to claim that. No offense but he does not strike me as the kind of basket a team would be willing to put all their eggs into to carry the game himself with a play like that. With Rayn having claimed tracker and ritoky denying it, no matter of Rayns/ritoky's alignment mafia has to know there's no tracker. Also already flipped cop. Let's say Sicklucker has the orb as mafia. They can make him use it on Palmar, but would they really let him claim it when there's no way to track it? Seems like a situation where he'd do the work while one his buddy takes all the credit. SickLucker is like THE lynchbait carved into human form and I don't think mafia would willingly send him into a possible 1v2 situation.
Since Artanis didn't say anything about himself: 1) filterlenght 2) reads 3) effort/tryhard (which sounds like #1 but it's not)
so for #1: He straight up has too big of a filter to be mafia and has done too much to be mafia. He was under pressure early on from a lot of people including myself but ever since has actively tried to solve the game. Some things I didn't agree with but in general I liked most of the stuff he did after that innitial start of his. #2:like what he posted about me, our reads just happen to very alike and those posts with us posting reads withing 60-180secs of each other happened by chance (I know I did not look at his reads and you can guess that I can't make a post like that in 180 secs). If nothing else it proves that he's reading the game (which is actually alignment indicative for an abomination of a game that was the first 78 or so hours of this game) and comes to the same conclusion that I came to. No tmi, no weird reads that straight up make no sense and only are in there because he thinks someone is "obviously" towny because of tmi when the guy's really just not. His Onegu read would be the only thing that I'd consider that way but heck, Vivax thinks the same way so I really can't say anything about that either. #3:So with Eden gone we had a bit of a slow day yesterday. Vivax already mentioned that he didn't feel like posting and just wants to lynch down the list and I got to agree with that, even if I was busy yesterday I wasn't motivated to do anything. And in that situation Artanis gets in the thread and tryhards like crazy. He had all the reason to not do a thing, sit back and scratch his balls as mafia. It didn't happen, he made Vivax and me post more than we would have done otherwise (I think )
In unrelated news: thanks for trying to make it less likely that I'll get shot Damdred, no matter of your alignment, I appreciate the effort. I think it's quite likely that the shot tonight will be between Trfel and me though, depending on what mafia wants the most.
As for the other people, I honestly still think Onegu is shady as fuck. He hasn't done anything and is straight up refusing to do anything with his sheep attitude making it impossible to get an idea about where he truly stands. Vivax and Artanis seem to think quite highly of him and while I don't think he should be lynched next (ritoky/Breshke/FF imo) it is possible that he's mafia after all. Yes I could be wrong, but so could be Artanis&Vivax o/
The other three still look horrible and should be lynched before Onegu, especially if Vivax/Artanis think so strongly about him.
So all that is above is where I disagree slightly with Artanis reads and felt like saying something that he did not include or say in a short summary
do you think he's a viable and likely lynch above Breshke/FF/ritoky tomorrow?
I'd honestly rather make sure we make absolutely get a mafia tomorrow if there's only 2 mafia in the above 3 to ensure we don't get massive paranoia tomorrow...
Fuck all the shit I had prepared in here that you don't need, everything that matters:
On March 21 2015 09:26 Damdred wrote: 100% two town big [vig] are very possible. I'd shoot two question marks maybe super and one of the ones who complained and steeped onto bm.
I need to look just don't be dumb and kill each other.
VERY unlikely to come from mafia if the entire plan was to see town in chaos d2 as we see a reapeat of d1 and lynch between Vivax/Toad.
I think I'm stopping here. I wouldn't put him under as confirmed as the other ones but it seems likely that he's just confused / paranoid townie and thus makes no sense at times as he's all over the place with stuff that sometimes sounds really bad (content) while generally sounding townish to me (tonewise) as well as straight up playing against mafia agenda with his stance on there being 2 townvigs relatively early. The quote was still during n1 and they could have changed their strategy if mafia thought it's not a good idea at that point in time.
posting style in general very ballsy. I like it in general
On March 19 2015 14:26 Damdred wrote: Why you gotta be spreading falsehoods why I replaced out Eden tsk tsk tsk.
Anyway <3 bm just don't fake claim a cop/tracker this game.
I've got to sleep. But seriously I am sorta liking where trfels head is so far, its not that hard seeing the thought process so far and where she's going. So that is a good thing.
Reminder to self read toads filter.
also hopefully ve and vivax do stuff tommorow
On March 19 2015 09:15 Damdred wrote: Catch up post for me so I knokw where to start from and other people to talk about
On March 19 2015 22:17 Damdred wrote: Well I'm caught up.
Not sure what's wrong with my trfel read to you rayn it should be pretty apparent that trfel wasn't doing anything which is bad scummy for him and then started to make good posts that showed he was thinking about the game, wouldn't lynch at this point.
Art I should be higher on yours and hfs lists! Do something about this chop chop.
Cooking will be here to answer most questions
I read ExO and doesn't seem like scum to me. Didn't read SL. Opinions on super and Toad requested. Got rayn on ice for now, ie no read.
I saw this after I made my super post damdred got those mind reading abilities this game.
Toad I'm not sure I have a couple of problems with him, in his filter he's barely doing anything but going after palmar, saying he disagrees with people for x reason. The little pressure he put on SL he just stopped went back to palmar. Meh I dislike it
Nothing wrong with that statement at that point in the game but he should be having the biggest town-bowner about me right now if that's what he thought about me earlier. Instead we have this about me from him: + Show Spoiler +
On March 30 2015 11:50 Damdred wrote: Ok sort of leaning towards two hard to find scum like in art toad and one easy one on rit maybe. Obviously I need to reread the days and this is really conspiracy at this moment
On March 30 2015 12:02 Damdred wrote: Also probably the town leaders will get up and laugh or discredit everything in saying but some of it has a high volume of merit.
Also trfel is always town in this situation no matter what half crazy theory people spew ls would afk and play when he can not wnt his team mates to instantly out and kill him.
Just more ramblings.
I'm probably lynched tommorow or in lylo as I'm really one of the most viable mislynched at this moment as I've predicted would happen. Palmar soft pushed the idea of an SL and damdrsd lynch before SL confirmed himself. So there's that.
Also scum ls jumped on my wagon really fast I don't think in anyway ls would hard bus mafia big like that after expressing doubt besides vivax claim and filter he probably has to be town no matter what.
Tommorow if nobody else asks stuff o have to read ff, toad, art, breshke. It will take me most the night phase so questions will be asked and answered
On March 30 2015 12:53 Damdred wrote: Toad over vivax at this point
On March 30 2015 22:07 Damdred wrote: Why is Toad your most certain town read now over someone like Vivax?
@Vivax I know the writing on the wall honestly, and i'm depressed idk what else to say, everything is reading weird from a few people to me meh
This guy should literally be having the biggest townboner on me ever if he actually meant what he wrote about how he dislikes me for going after Palmar... especially with inbetween posts about me like this:
On March 21 2015 06:34 Damdred wrote: I'm here I skipped 4 pages thread moved to fast no way is toad Scum here...
On March 20 2015 02:44 Damdred wrote: Toad have I ever told you that I love your traps?
Anyway I actually think you might have a stronger case for artanis in there than you do for Palmar at this point.
if he thinks I'm mafia how am I pulling traps? He's just going back and forth when really he shouldn't. The innitial read on me is completly fine but idk why he's trying to get people against me right now
On March 20 2015 02:54 Damdred wrote: Literally Rayn is talking to me like i'm town even though he claims i'm scum.
On March 20 2015 02:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: Here are the things why you SHOULD remember what i have said in the thread: (1) you literally claim you have read my posts (2) my reads apparently align with yours (3) you read me scum
all of those are reasons you SHOULD remember what i have said and at least try to figure out why i say what i do yet you claim the opposite.
Literally if you are sure i'm scum you don't need to make posts like this to convince me not to vote you.
If i'm scum you do not need to break down whats wrong with my scum read TO ME.
If i'm scum to you, this makes no sense to me why you post talking to me as such instead of pushing me to hell and back to get lynched.
On March 20 2015 10:40 Superbia wrote: Breshke what are you reads so far?
Im only on pg 60 but im up to the point where i think iv'e read this stuff before but still need to filter specific people but i can give you a list that probably wont have a number of people and i wont be writing shitty one line reasons because they always feel fake to me so ask about certain ones if you need to.
Town RSo Toad Eden (maybe down a tier) Tref
Town lean Slam HF Damdred (could easily go up a tier)
Scum lean Palmar
Scum Exo SL
Im missing like half the players here but will hopefully start reading filters soon. VE for example could easily go into town lean but i kinda want to read more into him but i liked the bit where he was going aaginst RSo about FF.
Tell me about Palmar specifically
does ask about Palmar, gets an answer and that's it. Does nothing with itm doesn't answer back in any way or form. Could be namedropping to make sure you have some of your buddies in your filter. That's super weak though + Show Spoiler [big wall of text] +
On March 21 2015 09:26 Damdred wrote: 100% two town big are very possible. I'd shoot two question marks maybe super and one of the ones who complained and steeped onto bm.
I need to look just don't be dumb and kill each other.
Currently, Bill Murray is set to be executed. Day 1 ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
Reminder to make sure to unvote before voting, if you have already voted someone.
Voting is mandatory and in this thread. You may NOT abstain.
Posting after the deadline and prior to flip is subject to a modkill.
I'm going to be working from this mostly tonight tomorrow i'll probably expand a bit more or Monday depending on time constraints, I kind of want to look at the other wagons and see how they fell apart but this is probably the most important i'm deleting the failed wagons at this point but leaving wagons with single voters on it. ________________________________________________________________________________________________ Firstly I want to talk about the claims a bit going forward,
HF and Oneg are confirmed town. There is no reason at all for mafia to claim Mason early in the game. For starters you give up two of your team mates just in case one flips on a cop check or a rogue vigilante shot. They are the easiest people in the game to confirm 100%. Its idiotic for anyone to say that HF or Onegu are scum because of X. HF made the right call in the long run if HF flips scum, then onegu has to flip scum. its simple, mafia don't claim mason in this type of situation so people quit being bad.
Two vigilantes are sort of likely in my mind. BH has had two vigilantes before in one of his games which makes ti more possible and then when you add in the orb which is basically a randomized killer in some instances it sort of makes more sense to me. The orb can act as another kill power for mafia or town, so another vig to help with a bit of balance makes a little sense to me. For now i'd rather just leave this alone and focus elsewhere.
Rayns tracker claim is possibly the most meh to me as its hard for me to see so many hard confirming roles on people especially with masons in the game. I still think it might be true at this point though.
(And 5 power roles makes sense in this setup with a weaker mason and a weak tracker also. Three weak roles and two strongers mafia probably has stronger roles in this setup as well if this is the case) ________________________________________________________________________________________________
Taking out the strikes at this juncture just for a clearer reading.
Here we have confirmed BM who flipped green pushed by Mason HF to not lynch into the claims. We have claimed mason partner onegu on LS, with confirmed towny BM. We also have Tracker Rayn on BM.
Also apart from the claims HF looks really towny himself, he pushed his own ideas early and helped get conversation started without stone walling anything. He pushed a lynch onto a towny he did but town is more than likely to be wrong than right especially early on.
Vivax a part from the claim actually looks better after a glance at his filter, he tried really hard and his reads that he gave at the end especially towards little things like Art and myself actually had really good insightful things in them. He acted the part of town dying really well if hes scum and I don't think he can do it that well as scum i'm pretty sold of Vivax being town in this situation. His early filter screamed scum to me early but after that point he just looks really towny especially after the claim.
Toads actions around the claim look decently towny to me at this point. Some of his thought process is jumbeled but I don't see the point of a mafia CC there just to go 1-1 especially if its a real scum vigi at this juncture. Its dumb to give up your shot in that sense for a shot at lynching the town vigilante. It just doesn't make logical sense to me to do that.
I colored myself green since i'm confirmed to myself at least
My next stop is on the Eden and FecalFeast train. These two are probably my top two towns at this point in time, some of it is gut feelings but most of it is based on the play in the game up to this point.
FecalFeast has played extremely aggressive up to this point. He has questioned people pretty doggedly and pushed his own ideas forward. He cased LS earlier in the game and it wasn't a bad case I think hes put in the most work in trying to figure out peoples alignments and figure out motivations through his postings. hes really towny and has a filter that shows that hes trying to solve the game.
Eden has shown an interesting amount of play this game. Eden has been involved in almost everything that has been going on in the thread besides a few quick breaks and catching up. Also has shown to re-evaluate the game as the game has went along and has obviously been paying close attention and showing the thread his thought process. The questions that he asks and the pressure that he tries to apply to people look towny to me and the anger (which he is obviously trying to stop) looks like it is coming from town Eden. I am really sure that this is Eden also at times you can see a real lack of knowing what to do that I can see coming from town Eden, while at the same time pushing his own thoughts and feelings in the thread to try to get things done.
Now we come to the hard portion of the reads, I have Rsoultin, Breshke as town.
Rsoultins filter was absolutely HORRIBLE to get through at this point (really shame on you rs for derailing the thread at point for hideous things to talk about *finger wagging*). But besides the derailing you can see how Rsoultin is going through the thread and trying to get people to post there thoughts to get more information from it, it feels more relaxed than any scum game I have currently seen Rsoultin play While it lacks a lot of amazing things to be frank it does have a clear consistant thread going through it that you can follow on who she scum reads and why.
Breshke I started off as scum reading because of lack of activity at points and a real lack of effort pushing the game forward. However Breshke re-entered the thread after that and seamlessly changed my mind, he was involved in things he posted his own thoughts and pushed the thread forward. At points he challenged sl on the read and seemed to want to evaluate people based on what they were saying. The scum game that Breshke normally plays with is horrible, and I just don't think I can see Bresh as scum at this point in time.
They are both solid town at this point. ________________________________________________________________________________________________
Slam is probably scum in this situation sadly. My earlier read on slam was that he was trying to take the game more serious and that his attack on HF was indicative of a town slam trying to be different. This is true that slam can be serious and still be town, HOWEVER there was another tell that I use to distinguish between town slam and scum slam that I didn't want to reveal till I got to see more of what he does. Lazy slam+Serious slam=scum slam. Anytime slam is serious and active in the thread and doing things such as attacking HF or digging at people hes more likely town but as the game went along he fell off the face of the world and only showed up to complain about the thread and still did little to nothing to help the game progress only complaining that we lynched BM at this juncture. I think he has a good shot to be scum.
The other solo voter at this point was VE. I think VE is actually town here. His vote when looked at without the strikes isn't actualy in context. He was trying to get what he thought was the scum vigilante killed and had to leave before deadline and the BM wagon taking off. Aside from that he has been decently proactive when he has been here and I do not get the scum sense from him reading his filter, his anger at BM getting lynched instead of one of the Vig seems genuine and he seems to actually be putting forward a real effort at this juncture. I think hes a good towny at this point after reading
LS is scum I think....This makes me sad writing this. He just seems so lazy and its really hard to see where hes at or where hes going with his reads at this juncture. He just feels forced and he just doesn't seem to be digging or doing homework on his meta...
Palmar is town I think. His antics EoD were a little difficult to keep up with but he just seemed to not want to lynch Vivax and would of rathered lynch his scum read in Toad. Some of his early game stuff was a bit meh like his interaction with toad. But he has said some really towny things to me, his slight pressure on me during the course of the game was good I thought.
I am probably going to regret this but i'm going to mark SL in as a towny at this point. His wanting to take vivax hostage to get me lynched to a point felt towny, he wanted his person lynched no matter what. His work after lynch when he was here was pretty godo and the questions and observations he made while catching up I felt came from a towny perspective. I have a good feeling that Sl is town at this juncture.
Exo is a very likely scum in this situation. His actions after eod do not exactly make sense to me coming from a logical place. He just seems so angry that we left both claimed vigilantes alive when its just so much better to get the extra information. He seems to be unable to scum hunt currently because of this and is just harping on how bad everyone is instead of pointing out legitimate things that we need to focus on. As such if you look at his early game he had to be pressured to an extent to make any type of conclusion when it had been talked about before. His pressure on Eden looked kind of bad to me, he lacked follow up also on questions that were answered to him and he just let fall to the way side. He probably is the most likely mafia out of anyone at this juncture
This leaves me in a world where I have two mafia or one depending on setup between Superbia, Trfel and Artanis.
I am the most sure that Superbia is the scum in this group. His actions near eod are really interesting for instance he talks to Palmar at points like he is confirmed town to him. He keeps asking Palmar where his vote is going at one point and wants to follow him and complains when Palmar is wanting to switch back to toad. Really weird inconsistencies in the early play that myself and Eden pointed out (mostly Eden to give credit), Vivax also pointed out some really good things earlier. Really lackluster in scum hunting and backs off most things when confronted ie against Eden.
Artanis had some rally interesting bad things in his filter in retrospect. Just sheeping onto my case when I posted it is a real head scratcher. Maybe it comes from being so sure and playing with Vivax so much and his filter is really big at the same time so i'm really torn and not sure what to make of Artanis. He did have some good interactions with myself (but he dropped the scum read really fast even though I had little follow up) and he had an ok interaction with VE when they were arguing. I'm still leaning town on Art currently but things bother me
Trfel started off really bad in my mind. And the eod was so/so at points it felt like Trfel was just settling on things rather than digging, such as the vote on Vivax. It makes sense to some degree and I might be expecting to much in that regard but I think a total town trfel would look elsewhere and see what he could find. Also his mid game was really good I felt which was what initially changed my mind on him. His early game was pretty bad and lackluster, but his return to the thread after he couldn't sleep and the barrage of thoughts got me to come around on him. His later postings before EoD were not bad as well as you could keep track of his thought process.
This was probably one of the hardest things I've had to look at.
Vivax wagon came about when I pushed vivax and Art immediately jumped on followed quickly by LS. LS still had me as null at that moment in time I believe as he is usually really antsy about following me after I tricked him in titanic. But instead of questioning or looking for himself to try to see if I had a meta point he instantly sheeped soon as he saw it which makes it seem like he is the scum that initially started the piling up process. The claim by vivax I belive had him leading the lynch 5-3 over rayn. His wagon began to disintergrate at that point until toad counter claimed and people started piling up. This wagon was probably the one mafia most wanted to happen btw as it was so quickly piled on even as vivax started giving his last reads on.
Toads wagon had Vivax, Palmar, Rayn and Ve being the main pushers to get him lynched. This wagon gained little traction as he was the CC and most people generally agreed that mafia would not cc there and go 1-1.
BM was a last minute wagon formed by HF to give us more time to scum hunt and be able to get more information by using the Vig to shoot who we wanted to at that time.. It was a last second wagon with most of the people who wanted to lynch toad swinging over with some hold outs from lynching Rayn. Most of the people who could of hammered vivax were totally against his lynch so they would be unable and I feel like super could not risk taking the negative effects of hammering the vig so had to stay put.
I still need to look on the earlier parts of the day and see how people were voting and what was being pushed.
TLDR:
Scum team: Slam, LS, Super, Exo
Undecided: Trfel and Artanis
blah blah blah really wordy much wow. Damdred bored at home.
On March 31 2015 07:42 Toadesstern wrote: Fuck all the shit I had prepared in here that you don't need, everything that matters:
On March 21 2015 09:26 Damdred wrote: 100% two town big [vig] are very possible. I'd shoot two question marks maybe super and one of the ones who complained and steeped onto bm.
I need to look just don't be dumb and kill each other.
VERY unlikely to come from mafia if the entire plan was to see town in chaos d2 as we see a reapeat of d1 and lynch between Vivax/Toad.
I think I'm stopping here. I wouldn't put him under as confirmed as the other ones but it seems likely that he's just confused / paranoid townie and thus makes no sense at times as he's all over the place with stuff that sometimes sounds really bad (content) while generally sounding townish to me (tonewise) as well as straight up playing against mafia agenda with his stance on there being 2 townvigs relatively early. The quote was still during n1 and they could have changed their strategy if mafia thought it's not a good idea at that point in time.
I don't really think that exonerates Damdred. It's a lot easier for scum to connect the dots since they know it's two vigis rather than town. It always feels great to be correct.
it is easier to be correct as mafia than as town. But mafia does not go in the thread telling people there's 2 townvigs if the plan for d2 was to get one out of Vivax / Toad lynched or at least have the discussion heavily be on that.
Basicly I'd say he's town by meta, has a lot of small stuff that doesn't fit together making me think he's mafia by content, and finally think he's town because of his early stance on the vigs.
I'm most confident in the last part by a lot actually.
On March 31 2015 07:54 Toadesstern wrote: Basicly I'd say he's town by meta, has a lot of small stuff that doesn't fit together making me think he's mafia by content, and finally think he's town because of his early stance on the vigs.
I'm most confident in the last part by a lot actually.
I actually think he's scum on meta if we disregard the two huge posts he's made. I outlined the meta thing earlier. Town Damdred has pushed his scum suspects really strong and I really haven't felt that this game.
but he's been posting really confidently in general this game. His posts are downright cocky
On March 31 2015 18:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I tryharded last cycles, now someone else gets to tryhard. If nothing truly interesting happens I'll probably sheep Vivax to make him happy.
On March 31 2015 18:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Btw I have resigned to losing the game if anyone of Trfel/SL/Toad/Vivax are scum and I suggest you guys do the same (with me) so that we don't keep idly speculating/paranoid unless you find a really good reason to suspect one.
pretty much the same here. Why did they have to shoot Trfel instead of me... I was looking forward to no-lifing boats in April and now I get to be around another cycle as well as probably one more simply because Trfel is so confirmed that they have to shoot him again lol
On March 31 2015 20:44 Breshke wrote: But why not just humour me and go with my plan where you only lose if onegu is scum with like 2 of the other three.
what's that plan of yours? Keep in mind you're not exactly looking amazing either so if you're telling me that we need to lynch Vivax/Artanis/Toad because of Vivax posts about how we three are mafia together or some crap like that I'm just going to ignore it.
wow, each of us is voting someone different. I can't shake off the feeling that we're some kind of ancient roman spectators watching in delight as they fight for survival
So 24:00 my time. I've spend the last hour arguing with some guy in a TL thread for some relaxation. Still think the order of lynching doesn't matter all that much so just no tryharding from me today. Still think I like the ritoky lynch slightly better than the others so I'm sticking with that. Probabl going to be around for another 20 minutes or so
On April 02 2015 07:01 Vivax wrote: Yep it's tinfoil time.
Cause I can't behind Toad unscumreading Palmar after he switched to BM. He said it's cause "his theory doesn't work anymore" (in which Palmar saved a mafia Vivax), but that theory is entirely disconnected from the previous reasons for scumreading him.
On April 02 2015 07:01 Vivax wrote: Yep it's tinfoil time.
Cause I can't behind Toad unscumreading Palmar after he switched to BM. He said it's cause "his theory doesn't work anymore" (in which Palmar saved a mafia Vivax), but that theory is entirely disconnected from the previous reasons for scumreading him.
In fact here's the last post that has "Palmar" in it from me BEFORE Palmar flipped, AFTER d1/n1
On March 24 2015 13:36 Toadesstern wrote: Trfel, your whole point about how I might claim in that spot as mafia comes down to being scared of vivax?
I had no vote on me except for Rayn&Palmar (both very likely scum and I scumread them both) so I wasn't really afraid myself. In fact all the votes that I DID get came AFTER I calimed so if you're trying to sell it that way it's just factually wrong. I think we can both agree that I would have never been lynched d1 no matter what, right?
We already know mafia have a roleblocker unless Vivax is mafia because Vivax got roleblocked. Why would I be afraid to get shot by Vivax if I know I have a mate that can just roleblock him? I could have just let him be roleblocked without having claimed myself?
On April 02 2015 07:09 Vivax wrote: I looked at your first spreadsheet post Toad
He's still the highest mafiaread I possibly give out to people that have not yet flipped or scumslipped on the sheet. I merely mentioned that he's the most likely mafia in the entire game but that one point of my explanation needs to be retracted.
You can't possibly call that unscumreading someone...
seriously? I'm just not going to talk with you for the rest of the game Vivax. I'm done with you. Look at my filter, you asked that before, I answered it before
On April 02 2015 07:29 Damdred wrote: pijagukhasdlgjaljgialisjg
We can look at Toad another day, LYNCH RITOKY HERE
probably not happening
I want ritoky dead so Vivax is voting something else just for the sake of voting something else because of tinfoil atm. Artanis just said he doesn't want ritoky dead over the other ones.
On March 24 2015 01:44 Vivax wrote: Anyway I'll make it known I'd lynch Palmar, if anything cause he bored the hell out of me when he showed up. I promise it's not cause he works in a bank.
I don't think Palmar is mafia with Toad and Toad is mafia so Palmar is probably town. Seriously, Toad is so scummy.
so with Rayn and Palmar going after me mafia probably thought Vivax would flip d1 on the lynch and piled votes on me to look good when Vivax flips green to make sure they can push for that d2 lynch one me with a big "told ya" like we already figured out... 3 cycles ago?
On April 03 2015 02:07 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Yo guys I don't think we need to prove ritoky is scum at this point. I'm not sure if I cba tonight since I don't think I'll get shot but I might post something for EoN.
it's not about ritoky's alignment. It's about what's in rayns filter
On April 03 2015 02:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Yeah but you're basically showing that Rayn and Palmar were scum together, which we already knew due to Ritoky claiming scum.
I was showing that Rayn as well as Palmar were going after me proving that whole theory that mafia piled onto me to get the lynch on me d2!
wtf is going on with all the pants on head paranoia... First vivax tinfoil on me, next tinfoil on sicklucker, next someone tinfoil on Trfel? That's what mafia wants... I mean if you mention everyone as possible mafia you're going to be right somewhere at least, but we're not getting anywhere...
mmmh, true. If he doesn't know about it he looks super good becaue had the 00:00 votes counted ritoky is on 3 votes as well as Breshke and that's too close for comfort. But if everything was planned from the start he could have told hosts about it way before it went down to make sure there's no mistake happening.
On April 03 2015 07:02 sicklucker wrote: me 2. Im sure mafia bussed rotiky. If they thought he could live on he wouldnt have stopped trying to survive .one more day. Like he commited suicide and its not even mylo. Makes no sense
Except that I was the only one on him with not being around the last 40 minutes? Artanis got in the thread and posted a plan about getting a doublelynch and I'm pretty sure mafia would not want to go against that, thus not want to touch that with a 10m pole.
If it was a planned action from the get-go the only one that would make sense would be Damdred as he had his vote on ritoky early as well and unvoted. Seems more likely to be something that developed over the day to me. Like ritoky thinking he's screwed no matter what so at least suicide to get one possible ML out of it that way. If that's the case it can not have been planned.
As for my reads, no big changes. Trfel should get shot over me anyways though with that VET claim. Lynch ritoky no matter what tomorrow if I happen to die instead. Don't even argue about some big play. The guy claimed mafia, we take that any day every day.
On April 03 2015 08:43 Fecalfeast wrote: He also called me town. I couldn't have that shit.
wait. Is that me being stupid german or is that line something between a ridiculous typo or a ridiculous scumslip?^^
I just read that as: "He also called me town. I didn't want that so I shot him"
I honestly expected him to be kept alive for the tinfoil. But meh, maybe they're banking on wifom or really thought shooting him was better than Artanis/Toad/Sicklucker/Trfel when those 4 all have to be mafia according to Vivax and each and every one out of us had at least 1 tinhat-follower in the last 24 hours.
I've got a melee session with friends tomorrow, should be np with the lynch set on ritoky but I'll make sure to be in here at least 1 hour before deadline.
On April 03 2015 08:43 Fecalfeast wrote: He also called me town. I couldn't have that shit.
wait. Is that me being stupid german or is that line something between a ridiculous typo or a ridiculous scumslip?^^
I just read that as: "He also called me town. I didn't want that so I shot him"
I honestly expected him to be kept alive for the tinfoil. But meh, maybe they're banking on wifom or really thought shooting him was better than Artanis/Toad/Sicklucker/Trfel when those 4 all have to be mafia according to Vivax and each and every one out of us had at least 1 tinhat-follower in the last 24 hours.
That's exactly what I implied. The joke is that I'm the only viable mislynch for scum assuming the rest of the poe is scum.
It was a pretty deep joke so I understand if you don't get it
I was asking myself if that's it or if you just typo'd shot into shit and changed positions of shot <-> that.
Thanks for clarifying, the fact that you have the balls to joke about this actually makes it look good o/
There's a lot of stuff that you just go on about as "I'm pretty sure" / "I find it hard to believe" and so on... why don't you just ask? Why don't you just take a look at the OP. There's info in there that could clear out some of the things you're not sure about:
If roleblocked, the orb is considered used for that evening and the power in question will have been wasted.
yes the orb can be blocked
1 Scum RB resolves first. Where a scum RB and town JK should RB each other, the RB will pass, however the JK loses his/her protective ability.
yes it seems really likely they roleblocked the claimed Jailer...
8 Any given scum can deliver a faction kill as well as any KP granted by the orb.
if scum can do two different actions your explanation about it not making sense because of tracker getting a result about someone visiting two peoples is out of the window. Why not just ask about this?
also I find it hard to believe that someone can take two actions at night such as a JK and use the orb on another target, which btw makes the most sense since a tracker could potentially be in the game and it would be really confusing if someone visited two players.
instead of just asking?
I agree with the conclusion that SL is very likely to be town but there's a lot of useless crap in that post up there...
well I might or might now know for a fact that it's at least partially wrong. Who knows.
I mean I'm not calling you mafia here. I think I made it perfectly clear that my choice for lynches is ritoky/FF/Onegu in that order and it's Artanis / Trfel that think you're mafia over Onegu.
go ask yourself. I don't plan on getting myself modkilled.
But I guess we're done here, if you don't feel like putting in that much effort but are perfectly fine with talking to me or putting up that big post up there there's really not a lot to argue here.
On April 04 2015 22:47 Damdred wrote: Also while its not 100% reliable obviously, Oneg HATES bussing d1. From previous games I've played with him the thought of mafia bussing slam d1 for instance he could not comprehend because he doesn't think mafia would want to lose a team mate d1.
I'm not so sure that scum!oneg would jump on the LS wagon and hope it doesn't take off, before the vig claims LS or Rayn were the top candidates really. (before I pushed vivax that is)
On April 04 2015 13:51 Damdred wrote: So if I go with rayn is in total bus mode it probably makes toad scum lol oneg is town probably so would leave me with last scum between trfel and ff...
so everyone and their mom agrees that BOTH Palmar and Rayn hate bussing as mafia. Rayn and Palmar go after Toad
You're willing to completly throw that thought away for no reason whatsoever other than "what if" and next page you're arguing for Onegu being town because he hates bussing, the very concept you just threw away because "what if"
Make sure to make a last second post Artanis, seems like mafia plan is to bus on the lynch between Onegu vs FF tomorrow and either go "look, they shot Trfel/Toad and he flipped green, that means Toad/Trfel is mafia because it has to be one out of those two!" or "look, they didn't shoot Trfel/Toad, one of them has to be mafia!" and hope to get that last ML that way. Either way you're dead with how Damdred/Onegu are pushing the idea that one of Trfel/Toad has to be mafia, even more so if one of them is town lol
On April 04 2015 23:35 Damdred wrote: Rayn threw away his bussing meta with XXX, and bussed the hell out of LS. It is not that far out that he could potentially bus you when nobody was going to vote you.
Palmar you do have a point on. I still need to check his push out etc.,
Also everyone bus'd the hell out of LS, and Rayn/Palmar at points so this team has been really bussy.
Glad to see your a bit defensive when I haven't even really focused on you or trfel this night
it's mylo, we have a bunch of confirmed townies and you're making chaos. Yes I'm making sure that stops. We're not lynching into Artanis/Sicklucker/Trfel/myself
On April 04 2015 23:36 Damdred wrote: and palmar did bus rayn some this gam as well so that points kind of moot just from a general over view and was pushing on LS before he fell back on that.
And left you alone before your CC and palmar got back on you then hammered bm *shrug*
not realy, we already looked at it and found out that it was the most shallow scumread ever. He never was willing to put his vote were his mouth was. Never really explained his scumread on rayn. He just casually mentioned him as scum and nothing else.
That's in stark contrast to Palmar and Rayn going after me and trying to get BM in the last seconds of d1 to get a repeat of d1 with Vivax vs Toad lynch on d2.
Last time I was "shitting on you for no reason" it turned out to have a reason behind it as well and you wasted my time as well as everyone elses by making you look into stuff that you should have just done from the start.
I wasn't shitting on you for that. I'm telling you that we're not lynching into Artanis/Sicklucker/Trfel/Toad because two out of the possible lynches we have mentioned how it's probably between Trfel/Toad lately.
I'm telling you because like yesterday with that thing with the orb chances are you are just misguided and I actually think it's important to get that into peoples head if you're town. And you're the best looking out of the three. That's why I'm ignoring it on Onegu because I think its FF > Onegu > Damdred in scumminess for me and just can't be bothered about it from him.
The voteswitch... well I wanted to give it a try and see if we can some weird interactions out of it. Mostly directed at Onegu to see if he continues his sheep or suddenly starts arguing one way or the other. I didn't get anything out of it so I explained it and told people to get back on what he wanted lynched in the first place.
Why I'm alive? I think I got lucky in that every single night some weird tinfoilhat came around from some different angle about how I could possible be mafia and mafia wanted me around for that. Without really looking it up and just off the top of my head:
n1 it was still likely that the lynch is between Vivax vs Toad on d2 imo n2 and everything after that we had people (rayn, Palmar at the very least) going after me so I just don't see mafia shooting me in that situation if two of them are pushing me and want to keep doing so instead of having to make new arguments about other people. Later on we had that period with Vivax going after all of Artanis/Toad/Trfel so mafia probably just wanted to keep us three around for that and now they're prepairing for tomorrow... shot Vivax because like Artanis said he was the single person noone was tinfoiling at all. As for Trfel I'd guess they (rightfully) considered Eden to be more dangerous and last night Vivax just was the better shot as well as taking a chance at wifom, as can be seen right now. I just don't see him claiming VET as mafia at all.
As for blue balance, yeah we have vanilla goons flipped but if mafia is on massive power roles to combat that it's possible with vigs losing their bullets. We know that Rayn/ritoky was RB, so what if team mafia has/had RB+framer+GF as well as maybe some yet unflipped Millers to combat the cop. Or RB + framer + rolecop to so that mafia can snipe the blues. Talking about balance of blues is somewhat pointless as long as we don't know what powerroles mafia has.
I mean for all we know we could be having 3 vigs and something like Onegu vigged Player A as well as KP Player B while being jailed n1 or some crap like that. Yes unlikely but there's so many different possible scenarios to blance this one way or the other.
Meanwhile Sicklucker getting depressions because noone consideres him a possible nightkill despite being one of the unlynchable guys... but let's be honest... he's not getting shot lol
anyways I read it as "they can try to mislynch one of Damdred/Onegu [whatever happens to be town out of those two while the other one is mafia]" + asserting that you're more likely to be mafia
FF posting in the last couple of hours actually gave me some thoughts after all... he seemed really cocky in a genuine way but yeah it's got to be Onegu+FF here imo. Order doesn't really matter all that much for me. I'm fairly sure it's not trfel and I don't think it's damdred either with that activity lately.
On the one hand I think we should be sheeping Artanis here, on the other hand I think it's really important to get as many votes as possible on one guy today and tomorrow and Damdred apparently doesn't want to lynch Onegu... so let's start with FF to give us a little more convincing time on the 2nd one?
I mean it's between FF+Onegu for me (and trfel and Sicklucker iirc) and FF+ (Trfel/Toad) for damdred, right?
On April 05 2015 08:10 Toadesstern wrote: On the one hand I think we should be sheeping Artanis here, on the other hand I think it's really important to get as many votes as possible on one guy today and tomorrow and Damdred apparently doesn't want to lynch Onegu... so let's start with FF to give us a little more convincing time on the 2nd one?
I mean it's between FF+Onegu for me (and trfel and Sicklucker iirc) and FF+ (Trfel/Toad) for damdred, right?
##vote FF
if we're following artanis we kill onegu first
that's why "on the one hand X, on the other hand Y".
I'll read this big post from Artanis fully tomorrow when it's not 1:30am my time and see if I can get damdred to lynch Onegu first to ensure no shit happening but really... motivation to do so when I think you two are mafia together is quite low and making sure we don't get a last second voteswitch is quite important atm. So need to make sure we get everyone on the same guy either way, which ultimately is the reason I disagree with Artanis order right now.
On April 05 2015 14:28 sicklucker wrote: Like I like artanis plan. Its no secret ive wanted onegu lynched. and I have no reason to believe hes not the best lynch
because the way it is right now we have a massively bigger chance to lose with two 99% likely townies voting person A, while two 99% likely townies are voting person B. That's giving mafia chance to last second voteswitch. Let's say we have damdred vote Trfel in the end because he' stubborn. We only have 2 votes on FF from me and Trfel. You are voting Onegu. Mafia piles 2 votes on Trfel, he's on 3 and gets lynched without us really having a chance...
Fine, I don't particularly mind it either way, let's get Onegu first if that means we have everyone on the same guy
On April 05 2015 21:50 Damdred wrote: What's the play for scum here? If both are scum they are hard bussing each other and the rest of the game is like meh we lynching them both its unwinnable for scum. Bit here we are with 4 votes about to be on ff...
I know nobody will listen to me and that's fine just doesn't feel right
the play for mafia is to bus each other, shoot into me next and hope they get a mislynch on Trfel tomorrow with you and Sicklucker both saying that you consider lynching them because "why is he still alive!"
I'm actually quite scared that you+LS will do exactly that...
Also it's 3 votes on Onegu, 2 votes on FF right now. I'm going to vote whatever has two confirmed on it because that makes 3 townies with me and in the end they're both mafia.
If you don't want Onegu to be lynched over FF try to get Sicklucker to vote FF instead.
okay let's entertain those tinfoil thoughts for a second: Even if you think it's 1 out of FF/Onegu + 1 out of Trfel/Toad because you don't believe the VET claim or whatever, that still makes 1 out of FF / Onegu a true statement so you should try your to get the correct one out of those two.
Explanation being: the whole tinfoil is based on "I don't know about the VET claim man... looks too good to be true"
If you think Trfel and me are mafia that'd be town on ONLY Jailer+Doc+(nerfed)Vig because the Mason was a lie, the VET would have to be a lie in that case and the vig would be a mafia in that case.
That'd be only Jailer+Cop+(nerfed)Vig in an already mafiafavored setup because 15 v 5 and mafia has RB + Vig themselves.
Okay so if you don't want to push any of Trfel/Toad, I assume you don't want to push Sicklucker either.
That means it's down to FF or Onegu... which is exactly what's happening right now. I'm here and I said I'm making sure to vote whatever has 2 confirmed townies on it to make sure we don't randomly throw the game away even if we have the correct lynch for today (assuming tinfoil is correct). Right now that's Onegu.
I thought you felt pretty strongly about it being FF+Trfel yesterday? Shouldn't it be in your best interest to get FF as the lynch you can get for today and try to get Trfel tomorrow if he survives another night?
The thing about the VET claim is that it actually made a lot more sense than what Onegu did.
The second Trfel was asked about it he was able to dish out multiple posts showing how he intentially played "weird" to draw attention to himself and get shot with various mentions of blue-roles and so on. That's how I'd expect a VET to play.
Onegu on the other hand has fakeclaimed Mason to draw shots away from other people (or that's the story we have to believe if we think he's town) while going completly AFK, dodging responsibilty by sheeping votes without doing anything himself... that's just not how you get shot so what was the point of the Mason fakeclaim to begin with? That makes a lot less sense in how he played what he's telling us he's doing.
The only good thing he has going for himself is that rayn and ritoky went against it but as people mentioned, that could be a move to seperate Onegu + rayn/ritoky from each other. Both were looking really bad at that time and had we lynched one of them while rayn/ritoky agree'd to the mason chances would have been good that we would have lynched the other one as a follow up.
On April 06 2015 02:21 Trfel wrote: Toadesstern, trust me. Sicklucker, trust me.
For those of you who doubt my towniness, look at the night kills. You say that they implicate me because I'm not dead. Look further, notice how the people who townread me die, and the people who scumread me stay alive. If I were scum, that is not what I would do at all.
Eden, Artanis, Vivax, they all townread me. Damdred, sicklucker, they stay alive. Ritoky kept being suspicious of me (at least, I think). I'm not scum here. Please, trust me, vote Fecalfeast. Lynching Fecalfeast is the only lynch that makes sense here.
Toadesstern, sicklucker, and I are not getting lynched. Maybe you disagree with that, but at least we are not getting lynched today. That leaves Damdred, Fecalfeast, and Onegu. To my knowledge, no one is suggesting a Damdred/Onegu pair, therefore we should lynch Fecalfeast. Even if you think Onegu is scummier, just lynch Fecalfeast instead.
that's been pretty much my argument for why I wanted FF lynched today because it's between FF+Trfel and FF+Onegu for people. I think Damdred is currently on Onegu+FF or Onegu+Trfel not sure. So from his pov Onegu is actually the lynch to go right now, from your pov it's FF, from my pov I couldn't care less because it's just Onegu+FF...
On April 06 2015 02:21 Damdred wrote: If Scum had a Scum vig we would of had three kills,n1 and the Scum big can use his ability to shoot and carry a kp.
Also if road isn't a big he would get checked and it not big and get instantly lynched. Oneg is vig if they have one unless they double stack on hf which I doubt
I already pointed that out yesterday as a possible scenarior to balance things btw.
I don't think it's all that likely for Damdred to be mafia thus my statement that it's just Onegu+FF
I mean Sicklucker wants Onegu lynched first... you want FF lynched first... no matter what I do one of you will get sad only to be massively happy when you see whatever we lynch flip red anyways
On April 06 2015 03:02 Fecalfeast wrote: toad/trfel and they're just getting us to fight between 2 townies?
Oh shit maybe
toad+trfel is the blue balance argument the other way around...
You take away a VET from town, a Vig from town AND you give a vig to mafia because Trfel would have to be a lying mafia and I'd have to be a mafiavig in that situation. That makes even less sense.
On April 06 2015 02:53 Trfel wrote: Look at this game, Mini Mafia Down Under 2. Onegu didn't do very much at all in this game until he claimed his role. Throughout, he was skeptical of things and his views were constantly at odds with other players. Admittedly, this game was strange for everyone (post limit game and a very toxic town). But it still gives an idea of what Onegu's play is normally like.
Did you look at my scum games also. It's not a secret that I enjoy rolling scum much more than town and try to shape my meta to be copied easily when I roll scum. I'm around for like the next half hour then will try to be around for deadline.
The reason FF is scum with ritoky is look at who attacked me when I told the thread I used the orb but didn't claim right away. FF didn't even say why it was so scummy for me not to claim right away.
God I got so unlucky I always miss coin flips. I blame BH his rng failed me!!!
Second I'm now at 60 - 40 that Toad is mafia vigi over trfel. His flip flop today is scummy as hell.
Will try to power read damdred real fast but think he is still town.
If I was mafia together with FF I'd not be "flipflopping" because the only way to win for me would be to win today.
I'd be pushing for your lynch like crazy while harddefending FF because a bus on FF doesn't give me anything if I'm mafia and will still just lose next cycle because "why is toad still alive at lylo?"
Your vote is slightly wrong in the votethread Damdred. I doubt they'd modkill you for that if you don't change it but might as well get a +1 for the postcount and make sure it counts.
yeah I had some misscalls during the game. I wanted to play it save because I knew the game was won anyways once n1 was over so all we had to do was sit back, post some and get our free win.
That's why I was innitially against the Orb plan because to me it was just another unnecessary risk we did not have to take but in the end it was a really good play from Palmar/Sicklucker!
Ritoky played really well as well. Did not expect him to survive 2 cycles and in the end I basicly told him to claim mafia in the thread on purpose because if we get 3 mislynches in a row the thread will get paranoid and that might result in weird stuff. Wanted town to believe they still had a chance and for that ritoky had to claim mafia.
well the thing about SL is that he kept bussing all game long no matter what... I could have looked better the last 2 cycles as well but worked towards getting our win and making sure that happens so yeah, obviously you figure me out if I push you Onegu
I mean I got REALLY mad at sicklucker for bussing me frickin' 4 hours ago or what was it with this post:
On April 06 2015 01:35 sicklucker wrote: I still think toad could be the mathematical play here. I dont care how towny hes been the chances of two vets is still fairly low. Im open to lynching him ,ff and onegu today
On April 06 2015 08:14 ritoky wrote: it's a team game, it's not unwinnable for the team; you just gotta play your role to help the team. mine was to stall for as long as possible, cause confusion, and then get bussed when appropriate. i was very open about that being the plan from the moment i opened the scum qt.
yeah exactly. That's why I got so angry at some of the plays people did just "for the lulz" if they wen against the plan we had to win this
On April 06 2015 08:23 sicklucker wrote: It wasint at you tho. I just wanted to screw with the observers. The game was over there not lynching you. and if they do they aint lynchin me.
When I play mafia I try to do what I I would do as town. And I dont think I would ever give a second veg like 5 days of life when the setup seems town favored.
like half of your filter is "Toad looks weird... I don't believe we have 2 vigs" and I constantly had to tell you to stop bringing that up because noone else had problems with it lol
I know the post I quoted wasn't even meant the way I read it but it could have been dangerous. I still think that had I been lynched, flipped red and suddenly Damdred gets shot over you, you might get lynched because mafia ignored the 100% confirmed townie and shot damdred, a guy that was mafiared by at least trfel.
I also got to agree with Koshi, I thought it was slightly town favored at first and looking back at it it was actually super balanced.
The only thing that I'd change is make sure you CAN actually fakeclaim as mafia. It worked out this game somehow but if you have named roles that supposedly exist only once... it's hard to do something against claims as mafia. But that's an issue with claims being too strong and not an issue with PR's being too strong.
I mean let's be honest... was there really a chance for town to roll doublevig and they're both called Drax?
On April 06 2015 08:36 ritoky wrote: also the mafia rolecop was so nerfed and we forgot about it until after we shot the veteran LOL
we were so dumb there.
yeah that one... I even PICKED trfel as the target in the end because I thought he was confirmed not vet
Rolecheck someone on night X, shoot him on night X+1 to make sure you're not shooting into VET. That was the thing I was doing and suddenly we shoot into VET anyways and I'm just like... wait wat?
That probably was the most derp moment for me in the game
On April 06 2015 08:37 ritoky wrote: i think we rb'd eachother onegu. i think i targeted you and you targeted me...sooooo...dunno?
nah, I think we rb'ed Breshke that night? So yeah probably RB. The check on ritoky wouldn't really have mattered all that much though. We planned on you dying anyways so whatever~
n3 was the time we didn't know what to do with the rolecheck anymore so I just threw it at whatever I'm going to shoot next to check for VETs and figured out that doesn't work.
yeah the mafia motivation for CC-ing vivax was that we didn't actually look that good d1, I thought that if Vivax isn't getting lynched Rayn or LS will get lynched, which was both horrible for us so I CC'ed hoping for a Vivax lynch.
Worst case scenario we get a blue role lynched d1, I still have a chance to survive d2 because I'm unlynchable as mafia anyways as long as Marv is not in the game and both Palmar + Rayn who bussed me hardcore d1 look amazing. Was the better worst case in comparison to having rayn or LS lynched d1.
Best case scenario is what actually happened, or vivax lynch and me surviving d2.
And honestly nothing wrong with townreading me for that CC play. There's almost noone on TL that would have the balls to do that CC as Mafia besides maybe Marv and me... I don't actually think Marv would go for that either.
The people that mafiaread me in the end (Onegu + FF) only did it because I was active in the thread to make sure the topic doesn't change to something we don't want to be talked about (like what SL mentioned later on...). Had I not done that people would have mafiaread Trfel. Had I told SL to do that instead of doing it myself people would have mafiaread SL.
4 ML out of only 11 townies is actually pretty tough if the blues are really as confirmed as everyone treated them in this game.
I mean we had this happening with Vivax d1, he was the wagon and suddenly he's unlynchable because of the claim. But that's more of an issue with idiot townies believing every claim no matter what making it really easy for Mafia to just fakeclaim or CC-fakeclaim like I did this game.
probably comes down to making set-ups where it's more viable to fakeclaim as mafia. In set-ups that have few really powerful roles (medic/Jailer/DT) it's just really hard to do that as mafia. Maybe nerf them while giving out more blues. Like make them 1-shot or 2-shot Cop instead of a full Cop. I think we used to have a lot more people doubting claims in general 2 years ago whereas nowadays everyone just believes every claim no matter what. Don't think you can tell people to not claim or you'll just get shittons of modkills.
oh just saw the tinfoil stuff between Vivax / Artanis and there's two sides to it:
Thing is, like Artanis said you accused a lot of people based on not a lot. It's like someone put an idea in your head and then you started to spin that idea based on "what if the idea is correct". Which is fine, but you need to come up with an explanation why that's the case at some point.
Yes you were correct on me in the end but had it been Artanis or Trfel that flipped mafia while I'm town you'd be sitting here complaining about why Artanis and I called tinfoil on THOSE theories instead. You never made a compelling argument why what could have happened (and did happen) was more likely than what town believed to be the case (poe) or more likely than your other theories you had earlier. You just mentioned them as possible scenarios and went on "if that's the case here's how it went down"
To me it sounded like what was the most plausible scenario for you was based on a whim that might just change in 24 hours based on very little so it's hard to take it seriously if you know/think that in 24 hours there's just going to be another explanation from you that tosses everything from the previous day out of the window.
On the other hand I obviously tried to discredit you, not just when you were talking about me but also when you were talking about Artanis and the other guys because you're so volatile. I mentioned that Eden / Trfel / Artanis are easy to manipulate in the scum-QT multiple times and that we can keep them around as long as they're playing towards our wincon by defending us so I didn't have to do that with them. I was scared that you might just randomly pick up on something and while I didn't think you have it in you to lead town like Eden would I was scared that that might start a bushfire so I obviously discredited you on purpose just in case. Artanis had a mighty townread on me so he was fine with calling it tinfoil because I was doing it a lot as well. Probably moreso than how much he would have done had I not done it myself I assume.
So tl;dr: Don't focus on what could have happened or what's possible so much. Ask yourself what's the most likely scenario and explain why you think what you're presenting is the most likely scenario rather than explaining why what you're thinking of is totally possible in some weird scenario. If you can't do that there's no point in presenting the idea because it might have as well been your Artanis, Trfel or someone-else theory that's correct and you're just cherrypicking post-game. It would have been easy to explain the "missing" KP had anyone just mentioned the chance of me being mafia who isn't Vig. Also the lynch was between VivaxLS, Palmar and Rayn had I not claimed. 3 of those alignments people were aware for the most time, later on all 4.