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On March 25 2015 12:55 Trfel wrote: Eden. Here's one more question, don't answer me, but last try.
What does rsoultin say her best quality (as scum) is? I don't think I've ever talked about this with her
I feel really dumb for missing the boat this bad. What's on your mind Trfel?
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If I had to guess, it's that she actually tries hard? As opposed to a lot of people who can't muster up the motivation to do it.
But even if that's right I'm still not sure where I'm supposed to be going here.
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On March 25 2015 12:57 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 12:53 Trfel wrote: But if Onegu is town, he knows that rsoultin just saved him. That or one of the vigilantes is lying.
If Onegu wasn't scumreading both of the vigilantes, this seems rather disconnected and suspicious. I was scum on both, a bit less on artanis because of the RB claim, but I was screaming toad was scum, what's your point here? ...
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On March 25 2015 13:03 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 12:57 Onegu wrote:On March 25 2015 12:53 Trfel wrote: But if Onegu is town, he knows that rsoultin just saved him. That or one of the vigilantes is lying.
If Onegu wasn't scumreading both of the vigilantes, this seems rather disconnected and suspicious. I was scum on both, a bit less on artanis because of the RB claim, but I was screaming toad was scum, what's your point here? ...
Whoever the second vigi claim was.
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Was and hopefully still is Vivax.
Do you still think I'm mafia after Palmar the guy that nonstop pushed me d1, with lots of people mentioning that he wouldn't tell people to bus if he's mafia, flipped red btw?
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Sorry Eden, can't say. Otherwise I would have said already.
Superbia, that actually looks really good. But I have a few problems with it.
Some of the quotes are out of context. I'll check that tomorrow. That could have a huge effect.
I felt exactly the same way as Artanis did through the claims and Night 1 (and I'm town). However, Artanis is better than me, so it's fair to expect more from him. (obligatory sorry Vivax!)
At this point I don't think I can townread Artanis purely for filter length. I think it's very possible that Artanis is improving his scum play, and isn't giving up any more. The fact that he didn't give up in Student Mafia VI (when he insisted he would give up his next scum game after Imperial immediately) until he got sick hints at this. As for the significant posting increase, it's this game. This game is extremely conversational, and everyone has massive filters in it.
I don't know. I could go for this, but if Artanis is town, I don't want to mislynch him (because I want him around). I need to double check this carefully, but probably not tonight.
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On March 25 2015 13:06 Toadesstern wrote: Was and hopefully still is Vivax.
Do you still think I'm mafia after Palmar the guy that nonstop pushed me d1, with lots of people mentioning that he wouldn't tell people to bus if he's mafia, flipped red btw?
Already said I think your town. I think I did... If not I think you are town now.
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Which quotes are out of context?
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On March 25 2015 10:49 Onegu wrote: Btw don't think Rayn's slot is scum still. Looks like I was shot then so toad must be town. Breshke get in here and vote so I can sheep you
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I'm putting my vote where my thoughts are. It is important that I know which quotes may be out of context though. I pretty much did all my filterdiving during the night (right now) and I try to double check shit but I would hate to have misinterpreted some things.
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Comments on my Artanis case, please. Everything else is secondary right now.
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On March 25 2015 13:08 Superbia wrote: Which quotes are out of context? The pre-claimfest quotes (before his wagon analysis).
I mean, Artanis didn't do anything that I can't see from a town perspective. Rsoultin and I combined made all of the same errors (and many, many more).
The main problem is, what would make Artanis post this much? The Palmar flip sheds some light on this, I suppose.
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On March 25 2015 13:13 Trfel wrote:The pre-claimfest quotes (before his wagon analysis). I mean, Artanis didn't do anything that I can't see from a town perspective. Rsoultin and I combined made all of the same errors (and many, many more). The main problem is, what would make Artanis post this much? The Palmar flip sheds some light on this, I suppose.
Like yeah, that's what made me pay attention to his filter. Like town can be wrong on people, but it's important to look at shit post-flip, and he was mafia siding pretty hard d1.
Also he has posted a lot, but I really feel like he has contributed very little, especially given his filter length. Just feels like he wants to look townie.
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Canada11355 Posts
On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 12:30 Eden1892 wrote:On March 25 2015 12:29 Superbia wrote: Artanis. uh why lol All right. So Artanis' day 1 is actually really really bad, with the exception if rayn ever flips mafia (which I severely doubt at this point). He hard defends LS: Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On March 19 2015 22:54 Vivax wrote:On March 19 2015 22:52 LightningStrike wrote:I'm back and saw a answer from Toad on my question regarding him and Palmar in Hammertime when they both were town: On March 19 2015 12:20 Toadesstern wrote:On March 19 2015 12:10 LightningStrike wrote:On March 19 2015 12:00 Toadesstern wrote:On March 19 2015 11:52 LightningStrike wrote:On March 19 2015 11:50 Toadesstern wrote:Like everyone's talking about how I'm playing different than I used to last games... no shit I got killed on first cycle like 4 times in a row and lost 4 games in a row now. Last game in particular I feel like I lost because I was trolling too much and didn't get enough out in time which ended in people not lynching Sandroba when he was 100% mafia on my sheet. I needed to be a lot more serious in that game early on and we could have won Ya you kinda got lynched because Palmars tunneling you that's the thing in Hammertime. Also I can understand a little bit on why you thought you need to be more serious after JOAT but still it just odd playing with a already serious you. I mean if I get mafiaread for being different or more serious than I played in my last couple games there's nothing I can and will say about that other than my occasional banter about how that's not alignment indicative at all unless someone points out how different means scummy... because there's nothing I can say about it. I am playing differently (probably) With that being said, if that's what it's like I'll just ignore everything in that direction from now on and just focus on getting my reads out a little bit earlier than last game and making sure I get them out properly explained. Got angry about Palmar pulling the same shit he did in Hammertime when he should know better and talked myself into a wolf... won't happen again and this is the last post about it. Ya true about Palmar should know better on that but you seemed to taken it more personally o.o Are you still offended by Palmar's thing on you in Hammertime when you both were town? from JoaT: On March 03 2015 08:08 Toadesstern wrote: Fear not guyses for I have yet again rolled neither mafia nor Ninja. Thus I will proceed to kill all those mafias and not be mislynched d1 despite being called fucking confirmed town 24-36hours into the game.
Let me check real quick if Palmar is in the game not really offended but annoyed. I thought he was town early on doing it on purpose to start some discussion or get some read from me based on how I'd react if he misreads me again like that, so yeah I got annoyed at the possible idea of having to deal with that again because he might make someone else agree with it... Right know I'm pretty sure he's mafia for keeping at it and knowing that it annoys me. Can some of the guys who think my tone is so awful and completly different this game please go ahead and at least compare that post above with my first post in here instead of just believing all this about how my tone is completly different? Props for nailing it on my seriousness though LS. Because yeah, that did change, just not the thing Palmar and HF mentioned. I don't a see a big tone difference on your entrance to this game compared to JOAT regarding Palmar and I wouldn't blame on you on that because as a Cohost in Hammertime I kinda felt bad and I shoulda warned him on his Kill Toad spam and I didn't if I recalled. Also rsoultin not wanting to give her read on me this early to Eden but I don't blame her because I rolled Mafia in JOAT when she was town and called me Town by meta and will have to bleed green this game. So I saw Palmar and Rayn going at each other and saw Artanis trying to stop it but I remember Artanis so townie in Imperial yet when he lynched Town!Palmar he basically looked pure Mafia (Scum if you prefer to use that term) so I might need to wait on reading him esp because he just rolled Mafia in Student VI which I was coaching the Cop and the Vet and the Cop caught him with a Cop check so ya I going to be careful reading him. Also he got a decent point about a chance that Palmar or Rayn are Mafia and the other town due to their interactions esp Palmar stuff early on about Toad and I not going to make the same mistake I did in Titanic and give a easy townread on Palmar Day 1. I also have yet to play with Mafia!Rayn so I might be a bit bias on him being town compared to Palmar so meh. @Artanis who is more likely to be Mafia between Palmar and Rayn and Why? @ExO Where you at on reads considering our past history with each other? Oh god this post is so mafia Have you played with LS before? This is how LS plays. He calls toad scum and by proxy, defends Palmar who toad is tunneling. Interestingly, at this very point Artanis had no read on Palmar! He was reading him null! Then, when the claim wars happen, he completely flips on toad, and goes hard after vivax. This is after toad was his hard mafia read. We are left with this list: Show nested quote +On March 21 2015 03:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Votes as I see them: Vivax (5): Artanis[Xp], Damdred, LightningStrike, sicklucker, Toadesstern LightningStrike (4): Bill Murray, FecalFeast, Vivax, Onegu sicklucker (3): Superbia, Alakaslam, Breshke Artanis[Xp] (2): VisceraEyes, Eden1892 raynpelikoneet (2): Holyflare, rsoultin Toadesstern (2): Palmar, raynpelikoneet Eden1892 (1): ExO
Not Voting (1): Trfel
Only having 1.7 scumread is problematic. Was hoping this'd help more. With the exception of possibly rayn, most of his reads are pretty shit. He leans town on two confirmed mafia (really bad) for seemingly no good reason whatsoever. Now this is where it gets scummy, with the whole claim thing. There's a wagon on Vivax and a wagon starts on BM. As the wagon starts, Art calls it "pure" but refuses to switch. He gets called out by you (Eden) and he gives a half-assed excuse later. He seems to strongly consider the world in which both vigis are real: Show nested quote +On March 21 2015 05:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I think Superbia might possibly be right. Host WIFOM time. I know HtS likes her vigis because she hates lurkers. It's therefore very likely there's at least 1 vigi in the setup. Since the playercount wasn't fixed until the end, I find it plausible that the end balance was made by adding an additional vigi.
I'm not sure if I find that more plausible than that Vivax simply tried to fakeclaim and failed though. Toad definitely town for the CC, I just don't ever see mafia making that play when it isn't necessary. But for a reason I don't share whatsoever, proceeds to call Vivax 100% scum anyway. Moreover, Artanis later finds the time to make a paint diagram on rayn's anger levels, a very peculiar thing to do in such a high-stress claim situation for town. He seems to consider his options during this claim war, but I sincerely doubt he actually did consider anything. In the end he is still reading Vivax as scum. Now it gets even weirder, we manage to get the wagon off of Vivax, and the night phase begins. For some reason, Artanis decides to town-read Vivax, before the night actions are even resolved. Then when the day begins (and KP is reduced), Artanis hard-reads Vivax town for his filter length, what!? My theory at this point is that scum put both an RB and KP on Vivax. I believe that both Artanis and Onegu are scum due to this. I believe Artanis was looking to set himself up to look good before Vivax flipped town, and that he needed to substantiate his read after it became obvious Vivax lived through the KP. By extension, I think that Onegu is scum because in this world Onegu is never the save. I think for a 3rd scum slam is still a good bet.
Then when the day begins (and KP is reduced), Artanis hard-reads Vivax town for his filter length, what!?
On March 21 2015 07:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2015 07:50 rsoultin wrote: nah i don't think truffle is scum lol...kinda surprised you do vivax actually cause he's being very truffle-like
the problem is we don't know the scum setup or what else this town may have, and it's possible, however unlikely, that we may actually no more day 2...if i was flatout scumreading vivax then sure lynch him to hell but i dunnae...i think he could be town >< Rso, here's what I imagine is 99% likely going to happen. We lynch BM, he flips whatever. We tell Vivax and Toad to shoot certain targets. Vivax declines, says he'll shot whoever he wants. Toad agrees and shoots a public target. One of the shots doesn't go off, the other hits town. We're now in D2 with little more information than we had before, a mystery on if the person the other vig wanted to shoot was blocked because he's mafia or because mafia want to mislynch him, and two vigis that are still both unconfirmed to be town. We need to deal with this today or we'll spend another 72h talking about it. So I really like this post by super like, artanis totally turned around on vivax even though exactly what he predicted would happen, did happen. Yes he still reads vivax town...
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On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 12:30 Eden1892 wrote:On March 25 2015 12:29 Superbia wrote: Artanis. uh why lol All right. So Artanis' day 1 is actually really really bad, with the exception if rayn ever flips mafia (which I severely doubt at this point). He hard defends LS: Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On March 19 2015 22:54 Vivax wrote:On March 19 2015 22:52 LightningStrike wrote:I'm back and saw a answer from Toad on my question regarding him and Palmar in Hammertime when they both were town: On March 19 2015 12:20 Toadesstern wrote:On March 19 2015 12:10 LightningStrike wrote:On March 19 2015 12:00 Toadesstern wrote:On March 19 2015 11:52 LightningStrike wrote:On March 19 2015 11:50 Toadesstern wrote:Like everyone's talking about how I'm playing different than I used to last games... no shit I got killed on first cycle like 4 times in a row and lost 4 games in a row now. Last game in particular I feel like I lost because I was trolling too much and didn't get enough out in time which ended in people not lynching Sandroba when he was 100% mafia on my sheet. I needed to be a lot more serious in that game early on and we could have won Ya you kinda got lynched because Palmars tunneling you that's the thing in Hammertime. Also I can understand a little bit on why you thought you need to be more serious after JOAT but still it just odd playing with a already serious you. I mean if I get mafiaread for being different or more serious than I played in my last couple games there's nothing I can and will say about that other than my occasional banter about how that's not alignment indicative at all unless someone points out how different means scummy... because there's nothing I can say about it. I am playing differently (probably) With that being said, if that's what it's like I'll just ignore everything in that direction from now on and just focus on getting my reads out a little bit earlier than last game and making sure I get them out properly explained. Got angry about Palmar pulling the same shit he did in Hammertime when he should know better and talked myself into a wolf... won't happen again and this is the last post about it. Ya true about Palmar should know better on that but you seemed to taken it more personally o.o Are you still offended by Palmar's thing on you in Hammertime when you both were town? from JoaT: On March 03 2015 08:08 Toadesstern wrote: Fear not guyses for I have yet again rolled neither mafia nor Ninja. Thus I will proceed to kill all those mafias and not be mislynched d1 despite being called fucking confirmed town 24-36hours into the game.
Let me check real quick if Palmar is in the game not really offended but annoyed. I thought he was town early on doing it on purpose to start some discussion or get some read from me based on how I'd react if he misreads me again like that, so yeah I got annoyed at the possible idea of having to deal with that again because he might make someone else agree with it... Right know I'm pretty sure he's mafia for keeping at it and knowing that it annoys me. Can some of the guys who think my tone is so awful and completly different this game please go ahead and at least compare that post above with my first post in here instead of just believing all this about how my tone is completly different? Props for nailing it on my seriousness though LS. Because yeah, that did change, just not the thing Palmar and HF mentioned. I don't a see a big tone difference on your entrance to this game compared to JOAT regarding Palmar and I wouldn't blame on you on that because as a Cohost in Hammertime I kinda felt bad and I shoulda warned him on his Kill Toad spam and I didn't if I recalled. Also rsoultin not wanting to give her read on me this early to Eden but I don't blame her because I rolled Mafia in JOAT when she was town and called me Town by meta and will have to bleed green this game. So I saw Palmar and Rayn going at each other and saw Artanis trying to stop it but I remember Artanis so townie in Imperial yet when he lynched Town!Palmar he basically looked pure Mafia (Scum if you prefer to use that term) so I might need to wait on reading him esp because he just rolled Mafia in Student VI which I was coaching the Cop and the Vet and the Cop caught him with a Cop check so ya I going to be careful reading him. Also he got a decent point about a chance that Palmar or Rayn are Mafia and the other town due to their interactions esp Palmar stuff early on about Toad and I not going to make the same mistake I did in Titanic and give a easy townread on Palmar Day 1. I also have yet to play with Mafia!Rayn so I might be a bit bias on him being town compared to Palmar so meh. @Artanis who is more likely to be Mafia between Palmar and Rayn and Why? @ExO Where you at on reads considering our past history with each other? Oh god this post is so mafia Have you played with LS before? This is how LS plays. So he whiffed on LS. Okay...
On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote:He calls toad scum and by proxy, defends Palmar who toad is tunneling. Interestingly, at this very point Artanis had no read on Palmar! He was reading him null! Explain with quotes please, I'll go look for them on my own and we can compare notes.
On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote:Then, when the claim wars happen, he completely flips on toad, and goes hard after vivax. This is after toad was his hard mafia read. Yeah, typically when someone cc's vig in a game where the flavor implies that power roles are unique, your read tends to change in a hurry.
[QUOTE]On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote:We are left with this list:
[QUOTE]On March 21 2015 03:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Votes as I see them: Vivax (5): Artanis[Xp], Damdred, LightningStrike, sicklucker, Toadesstern LightningStrike (4): Bill Murray, FecalFeast, Vivax, Onegu sicklucker (3): Superbia, Alakaslam, Breshke Artanis[Xp] (2): VisceraEyes, Eden1892 raynpelikoneet (2): Holyflare, rsoultin Toadesstern (2): Palmar, raynpelikoneet Eden1892 (1): ExO
Not Voting (1): Trfel
Only having 1.7 scumread is problematic. Was hoping this'd help more.[/QUOTE]
With the exception of possibly rayn, most of his reads are pretty shit. He leans town on two confirmed mafia (really bad) for seemingly no good reason whatsoever.
[QUOTE]On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote:Now this is where it gets scummy, with the whole claim thing. There's a wagon on Vivax and a wagon starts on BM. As the wagon starts, Art calls it "pure" but refuses to switch. He gets called out by you (Eden) and he gives a half-assed excuse later. He seems to strongly consider the world in which both vigis are real:
[QUOTE]On March 21 2015 05:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I think Superbia might possibly be right. Host WIFOM time. I know HtS likes her vigis because she hates lurkers. It's therefore very likely there's at least 1 vigi in the setup. Since the playercount wasn't fixed until the end, I find it plausible that the end balance was made by adding an additional vigi.
I'm not sure if I find that more plausible than that Vivax simply tried to fakeclaim and failed though. Toad definitely town for the CC, I just don't ever see mafia making that play when it isn't necessary.[/QUOTE]
But for a reason I don't share whatsoever, proceeds to call Vivax 100% scum anyway. Moreover, Artanis later finds the time to make a paint diagram on rayn's anger levels, a very peculiar thing to do in such a high-stress claim situation for town. He seems to consider his options during this claim war, but I sincerely doubt he actually did consider anything. In the end he is still reading Vivax as scum.[/quote] Like here in the quote you're talking about, literally everything you're talking about is explained. He considers Toad almost certainly town because he doesn't think mafia ever makes that play. He says that it's possible there could be 2 vigs but he considers it less likely than Vivax fakeclaiming and whiffing. What is there to be explained?
[QUOTE]On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote:Now it gets even weirder, we manage to get the wagon off of Vivax, and the night phase begins. For some reason, Artanis decides to town-read Vivax, before the night actions are even resolved. Then when the day begins (and KP is reduced), Artanis hard-reads Vivax town for his filter length, what!?
My theory at this point is that scum put both an RB and KP on Vivax. I believe that both Artanis and Onegu are scum due to this. I believe Artanis was looking to set himself up to look good before Vivax flipped town, and that he needed to substantiate his read after it became obvious Vivax lived through the KP. By extension, I think that Onegu is scum because in this world Onegu is never the save.
I think for a 3rd scum slam is still a good bet.[/QUOTE] How was he setting himself up to look good if he called a presumed vig 100% mafia and voted him the whole way?
BTW what's ritoky's alignment in your opinion right now?
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aw fuck i fucked up the quote tags. 1s.
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I agree that hard defending LS doesn't directly imply mafia, and that scum-reading toad who's pushing on Palmar doesn't imply a soft-defense of Palmar, but I'm arguing that it could. And I'm arguing that it looks bad. That's not the core of my case though, it's just the salt and the pepper. The core of my case is the Vivax/Toad Counter Claim event, and the flip-floppiness of Artanis' hard scum reads:
1. Artanis calls toad (hard) mafia. 2. Counterclaim wars between Vivax and Toad. 3. Artanis is now convinced Vivax is hard mafia. 4. During night Vivax is all of a sudden townie to Artanis.
Like that's very, very roughly my argument.
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On March 25 2015 13:16 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 13:13 Trfel wrote:On March 25 2015 13:08 Superbia wrote: Which quotes are out of context? The pre-claimfest quotes (before his wagon analysis). I mean, Artanis didn't do anything that I can't see from a town perspective. Rsoultin and I combined made all of the same errors (and many, many more). The main problem is, what would make Artanis post this much? The Palmar flip sheds some light on this, I suppose. Like yeah, that's what made me pay attention to his filter. Like town can be wrong on people, but it's important to look at shit post-flip, and he was mafia siding pretty hard d1. Also he has posted a lot, but I really feel like he has contributed very little, especially given his filter length. Just feels like he wants to look townie. Yeah, I kind of get the same impression.
Artanis is a great conversational player, of course he thrives in a conversational game like this one. In fact, that's one reason to keep him alive, I enjoy having him around. In this game, with Palmar as scumbuddy, if there was ever a game where mafia!Artanis would post this much, this would be it.
His confirmed town list is suspicious. Buddying, a great excuse to sneak a mafia in, and an excuse to partially avoid scumhunting.
I don't think he's done many original pushes.
And now, as you pointed out, he was heavily mafia siding.
I have one or two potential good town explanations for this, but I'll keep to myself for now.
You know, I'll go with this for now. Definitely could move off, though. Looking forward to Artanis's response. ##vote Artanis[Xp]
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