EPTTL Mafia LXX: Guardians of the Galaxy - Page 325
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote: All right. So Artanis' day 1 is actually really really bad, with the exception if rayn ever flips mafia (which I severely doubt at this point). He hard defends LS: So he whiffed on LS. Okay... On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote:He calls toad scum and by proxy, defends Palmar who toad is tunneling. Interestingly, at this very point Artanis had no read on Palmar! He was reading him null! Explain with quotes please, I'll go look for them on my own and we can compare notes. On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote:Then, when the claim wars happen, he completely flips on toad, and goes hard after vivax. This is after toad was his hard mafia read. Yeah, typically when someone cc's vig in a game where the flavor implies that power roles are unique, your read tends to change in a hurry. On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote:We are left with this list: With the exception of possibly rayn, most of his reads are pretty shit. He leans town on two confirmed mafia (really bad) for seemingly no good reason whatsoever. Now this is where it gets scummy, with the whole claim thing. There's a wagon on Vivax and a wagon starts on BM. As the wagon starts, Art calls it "pure" but refuses to switch. He gets called out by you (Eden) and he gives a half-assed excuse later. He seems to strongly consider the world in which both vigis are real: But for a reason I don't share whatsoever, proceeds to call Vivax 100% scum anyway. Moreover, Artanis later finds the time to make a paint diagram on rayn's anger levels, a very peculiar thing to do in such a high-stress claim situation for town. He seems to consider his options during this claim war, but I sincerely doubt he actually did consider anything. In the end he is still reading Vivax as scum. Like here in the quote you're talking about, literally everything you're talking about is explained. He considers Toad almost certainly town because he doesn't think mafia ever makes that play. He says that it's possible there could be 2 vigs but he considers it less likely than Vivax fakeclaiming and whiffing. What is there to be explained? On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote:Now it gets even weirder, we manage to get the wagon off of Vivax, and the night phase begins. For some reason, Artanis decides to town-read Vivax, before the night actions are even resolved. Then when the day begins (and KP is reduced), Artanis hard-reads Vivax town for his filter length, what!? My theory at this point is that scum put both an RB and KP on Vivax. I believe that both Artanis and Onegu are scum due to this. I believe Artanis was looking to set himself up to look good before Vivax flipped town, and that he needed to substantiate his read after it became obvious Vivax lived through the KP. By extension, I think that Onegu is scum because in this world Onegu is never the save. I think for a 3rd scum slam is still a good bet. How was he setting himself up to look good if he called a presumed vig 100% mafia and voted him the whole way? BTW what's ritoky's alignment in your opinion right now? | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
So why do you believe all that? Your entire basis for your ritoky AND Onegu reads is the idea that mafia rb'd and shot Vivax. What is the basis for that idea? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Urgh, I'll leave my vote on Alakaslam for now. I shouldn't vote before I check this in detail. Am I scum for waffling? XD | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 25 2015 13:23 Superbia wrote: Eden, would you agree that your read on me d1 based on the damdred/rayn thing has affected your read of me throughout the entire game? No, considering I had you in my town pile between then and my more recent scumreading. What are you trying to say here? | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On March 25 2015 13:23 Eden1892 wrote: I do agree that I don't think reading super heavily into the Night 1 kills is a great idea. There are too many uncertainties, question marks, and unknowns.already answered, ok. So why do you believe all that? Your entire basis for your ritoky AND Onegu reads is the idea that mafia rb'd and shot Vivax. What is the basis for that idea? | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
On March 25 2015 13:24 Eden1892 wrote: No, considering I had you in my town pile between then and my more recent scumreading. What are you trying to say here? I think it is absolutely weird that Artanis hard scum reads Toad during the first half of the day, but when the counter claim war comes, there is no sign of this scum read whatsoever. There seems to be no doubt in Artanis his mind. He talks about doubt regarding them both being vigi, but seems to do nothing to evaluate this, nor does he seem interested in HF's plan of letting the vigis both shoot targets we pick. I don't think he ever explained why he disagreed with HF's plan. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Artanis, why did you change your mind on Vivax? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On March 25 2015 13:25 Superbia wrote: See, I don't think it's completely unjustified. Vivax's play was a bit lackluster leading up to his claim, but after the Bill Murray lynch, Vivax looked extremely townie.The basis is Artanis' flip on Vivax on EoN1 from scum to town. Which is completely unjustified. I believe this is mafia setting up for a night town flip. Maybe part of it is I sheeped Artanis throughout his thinking here. And if he's scum, I look really, really stupid. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Although Superbia is doing a good job of getting himself off the list... | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On March 25 2015 13:24 Trfel wrote: Superbia, thoughts on this? If you don't believe it, I think can support it easily.Do note that I think Artanis always uses fluid reads. And he's perfectly happy to base his strongest reads off of a single event (such as switching Toadesstern from scum to guaranteed town based on counterclaiming vigilante). I can see this from town!Artanis[Xp]. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
But I gotta admit that Superbia might be getting somewhere with this Artanis thing. Gonna need to see how Arty responds. | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
On March 25 2015 13:29 Trfel wrote: See, I don't think it's completely unjustified. Vivax's play was a bit lackluster leading up to his claim, but after the Bill Murray lynch, Vivax looked extremely townie. Maybe part of it is I sheeped Artanis throughout his thinking here. And if he's scum, I look really, really stupid. He was confident enough in his scum read on Vivax to vote a possible town PR. How the hell does this change before Vivax's night actions go through. Like he's literally calling him town before flips, and then when Vivax claims being roleblocked, he hard reads him town based on filter-length. ???? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On March 25 2015 13:29 Eden1892 wrote: Eden, now that ritoky and Onegu have claimed VT...I'm not sure yet that he's a better lynch than other people in my pile. Although Superbia is doing a good job of getting himself off the list... What do you think about the game's power role balance? 2 vigilantes 1 jailkeeper 1 cop Is that fair for a 15 town vs 5 scum game? Thanks! | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On March 25 2015 13:32 Superbia wrote: I'll let Artanis answer for himself.He was confident enough in his scum read on Vivax to vote a possible town PR. How the hell does this change before Vivax's night actions go through. Like he's literally calling him town before flips, and then when Vivax claims being roleblocked, he hard reads him town based on filter-length. ???? I've got to stop defending people for no reason. Sorry everyone. Anyway, does anyone know off the top of their head what Holyflare's reads were by the time he died? Like, was mafia killing him because he's Holyflare, or did they want to shut him up desperately enough to hit Onegu and completely silence him? | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
On March 25 2015 13:31 Trfel wrote: Superbia, thoughts on this? If you don't believe it, I think can support it easily. Yeah, that's fine, and I'm never going to be able to hard-call him scum over this, but I did not see him display a grain of real doubt during the EoD1, which is something I suspect from a townie. This point moves over to EoN1, where Artanis all of a sudden starts town reading Vivax. You can't have one and the other. Either Artanis had doubt on Vivax EoD1, which he did not show whatsoever, or he's hard-reading Vivax scum (he was), in which case he has no reason to flip on Vivax EoN1! Especially after Vivax claims roleblock! Doesn't that fit a mafia!Viviax world!? | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
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sicklucker
Canada16987 Posts
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