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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 25 2015 12:55 Trfel wrote: Eden. Here's one more question, don't answer me, but last try. What does rsoultin say her best quality (as scum) is? I don't think I've ever talked about this with her  I feel really dumb for missing the boat this bad. What's on your mind Trfel? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
But even if that's right I'm still not sure where I'm supposed to be going here. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 25 2015 12:57 Onegu wrote: I was scum on both, a bit less on artanis because of the RB claim, but I was screaming toad was scum, what's your point here? ... | ||
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Onegu
United States9699 Posts
Whoever the second vigi claim was. | ||
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Onegu
United States9699 Posts
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Onegu
United States9699 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Do you still think I'm mafia after Palmar the guy that nonstop pushed me d1, with lots of people mentioning that he wouldn't tell people to bus if he's mafia, flipped red btw? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Superbia, that actually looks really good. But I have a few problems with it. Some of the quotes are out of context. I'll check that tomorrow. That could have a huge effect. I felt exactly the same way as Artanis did through the claims and Night 1 (and I'm town). However, Artanis is better than me, so it's fair to expect more from him. (obligatory sorry Vivax!) At this point I don't think I can townread Artanis purely for filter length. I think it's very possible that Artanis is improving his scum play, and isn't giving up any more. The fact that he didn't give up in Student Mafia VI (when he insisted he would give up his next scum game after Imperial immediately) until he got sick hints at this. As for the significant posting increase, it's this game. This game is extremely conversational, and everyone has massive filters in it. I don't know. I could go for this, but if Artanis is town, I don't want to mislynch him (because I want him around). I need to double check this carefully, but probably not tonight. | ||
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Onegu
United States9699 Posts
On March 25 2015 13:06 Toadesstern wrote: Was and hopefully still is Vivax. Do you still think I'm mafia after Palmar the guy that nonstop pushed me d1, with lots of people mentioning that he wouldn't tell people to bus if he's mafia, flipped red btw? Already said I think your town. I think I did... If not I think you are town now. | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
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Onegu
United States9699 Posts
On March 25 2015 10:49 Onegu wrote: Btw don't think Rayn's slot is scum still. Looks like I was shot then so toad must be town. Breshke get in here and vote so I can sheep you | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On March 25 2015 13:08 Superbia wrote: The pre-claimfest quotes (before his wagon analysis).Which quotes are out of context? I mean, Artanis didn't do anything that I can't see from a town perspective. Rsoultin and I combined made all of the same errors (and many, many more). The main problem is, what would make Artanis post this much? The Palmar flip sheds some light on this, I suppose. | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
On March 25 2015 13:13 Trfel wrote: The pre-claimfest quotes (before his wagon analysis). I mean, Artanis didn't do anything that I can't see from a town perspective. Rsoultin and I combined made all of the same errors (and many, many more). The main problem is, what would make Artanis post this much? The Palmar flip sheds some light on this, I suppose. Like yeah, that's what made me pay attention to his filter. Like town can be wrong on people, but it's important to look at shit post-flip, and he was mafia siding pretty hard d1. Also he has posted a lot, but I really feel like he has contributed very little, especially given his filter length. Just feels like he wants to look townie. | ||
Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote: All right. So Artanis' day 1 is actually really really bad, with the exception if rayn ever flips mafia (which I severely doubt at this point). He hard defends LS: He calls toad scum and by proxy, defends Palmar who toad is tunneling. Interestingly, at this very point Artanis had no read on Palmar! He was reading him null! Then, when the claim wars happen, he completely flips on toad, and goes hard after vivax. This is after toad was his hard mafia read. We are left with this list: With the exception of possibly rayn, most of his reads are pretty shit. He leans town on two confirmed mafia (really bad) for seemingly no good reason whatsoever. Now this is where it gets scummy, with the whole claim thing. There's a wagon on Vivax and a wagon starts on BM. As the wagon starts, Art calls it "pure" but refuses to switch. He gets called out by you (Eden) and he gives a half-assed excuse later. He seems to strongly consider the world in which both vigis are real: But for a reason I don't share whatsoever, proceeds to call Vivax 100% scum anyway. Moreover, Artanis later finds the time to make a paint diagram on rayn's anger levels, a very peculiar thing to do in such a high-stress claim situation for town. He seems to consider his options during this claim war, but I sincerely doubt he actually did consider anything. In the end he is still reading Vivax as scum. Now it gets even weirder, we manage to get the wagon off of Vivax, and the night phase begins. For some reason, Artanis decides to town-read Vivax, before the night actions are even resolved. Then when the day begins (and KP is reduced), Artanis hard-reads Vivax town for his filter length, what!? My theory at this point is that scum put both an RB and KP on Vivax. I believe that both Artanis and Onegu are scum due to this. I believe Artanis was looking to set himself up to look good before Vivax flipped town, and that he needed to substantiate his read after it became obvious Vivax lived through the KP. By extension, I think that Onegu is scum because in this world Onegu is never the save. I think for a 3rd scum slam is still a good bet. Then when the day begins (and KP is reduced), Artanis hard-reads Vivax town for his filter length, what!? On March 21 2015 07:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Rso, here's what I imagine is 99% likely going to happen. We lynch BM, he flips whatever. We tell Vivax and Toad to shoot certain targets. Vivax declines, says he'll shot whoever he wants. Toad agrees and shoots a public target. One of the shots doesn't go off, the other hits town. We're now in D2 with little more information than we had before, a mystery on if the person the other vig wanted to shoot was blocked because he's mafia or because mafia want to mislynch him, and two vigis that are still both unconfirmed to be town. We need to deal with this today or we'll spend another 72h talking about it. So I really like this post by super like, artanis totally turned around on vivax even though exactly what he predicted would happen, did happen. Yes he still reads vivax town... | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote: All right. So Artanis' day 1 is actually really really bad, with the exception if rayn ever flips mafia (which I severely doubt at this point). He hard defends LS: So he whiffed on LS. Okay... On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote:He calls toad scum and by proxy, defends Palmar who toad is tunneling. Interestingly, at this very point Artanis had no read on Palmar! He was reading him null! Explain with quotes please, I'll go look for them on my own and we can compare notes. On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote:Then, when the claim wars happen, he completely flips on toad, and goes hard after vivax. This is after toad was his hard mafia read. Yeah, typically when someone cc's vig in a game where the flavor implies that power roles are unique, your read tends to change in a hurry. [QUOTE]On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote:We are left with this list: [QUOTE]On March 21 2015 03:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Votes as I see them: Vivax (5): Artanis[Xp], Damdred, LightningStrike, sicklucker, Toadesstern LightningStrike (4): Bill Murray, FecalFeast, Vivax, Onegu sicklucker (3): Superbia, Alakaslam, Breshke Artanis[Xp] (2): VisceraEyes, Eden1892 raynpelikoneet (2): Holyflare, rsoultin Toadesstern (2): Palmar, raynpelikoneet Eden1892 (1): ExO Not Voting (1): Trfel Only having 1.7 scumread is problematic. Was hoping this'd help more.[/QUOTE] With the exception of possibly rayn, most of his reads are pretty shit. He leans town on two confirmed mafia (really bad) for seemingly no good reason whatsoever. [QUOTE]On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote:Now this is where it gets scummy, with the whole claim thing. There's a wagon on Vivax and a wagon starts on BM. As the wagon starts, Art calls it "pure" but refuses to switch. He gets called out by you (Eden) and he gives a half-assed excuse later. He seems to strongly consider the world in which both vigis are real: [QUOTE]On March 21 2015 05:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I think Superbia might possibly be right. Host WIFOM time. I know HtS likes her vigis because she hates lurkers. It's therefore very likely there's at least 1 vigi in the setup. Since the playercount wasn't fixed until the end, I find it plausible that the end balance was made by adding an additional vigi. I'm not sure if I find that more plausible than that Vivax simply tried to fakeclaim and failed though. Toad definitely town for the CC, I just don't ever see mafia making that play when it isn't necessary.[/QUOTE] But for a reason I don't share whatsoever, proceeds to call Vivax 100% scum anyway. Moreover, Artanis later finds the time to make a paint diagram on rayn's anger levels, a very peculiar thing to do in such a high-stress claim situation for town. He seems to consider his options during this claim war, but I sincerely doubt he actually did consider anything. In the end he is still reading Vivax as scum.[/quote] Like here in the quote you're talking about, literally everything you're talking about is explained. He considers Toad almost certainly town because he doesn't think mafia ever makes that play. He says that it's possible there could be 2 vigs but he considers it less likely than Vivax fakeclaiming and whiffing. What is there to be explained? [QUOTE]On March 25 2015 12:53 Superbia wrote:Now it gets even weirder, we manage to get the wagon off of Vivax, and the night phase begins. For some reason, Artanis decides to town-read Vivax, before the night actions are even resolved. Then when the day begins (and KP is reduced), Artanis hard-reads Vivax town for his filter length, what!? My theory at this point is that scum put both an RB and KP on Vivax. I believe that both Artanis and Onegu are scum due to this. I believe Artanis was looking to set himself up to look good before Vivax flipped town, and that he needed to substantiate his read after it became obvious Vivax lived through the KP. By extension, I think that Onegu is scum because in this world Onegu is never the save. I think for a 3rd scum slam is still a good bet.[/QUOTE] How was he setting himself up to look good if he called a presumed vig 100% mafia and voted him the whole way? BTW what's ritoky's alignment in your opinion right now? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
1. Artanis calls toad (hard) mafia. 2. Counterclaim wars between Vivax and Toad. 3. Artanis is now convinced Vivax is hard mafia. 4. During night Vivax is all of a sudden townie to Artanis. Like that's very, very roughly my argument. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On March 25 2015 13:16 Superbia wrote: Yeah, I kind of get the same impression.Like yeah, that's what made me pay attention to his filter. Like town can be wrong on people, but it's important to look at shit post-flip, and he was mafia siding pretty hard d1. Also he has posted a lot, but I really feel like he has contributed very little, especially given his filter length. Just feels like he wants to look townie. Artanis is a great conversational player, of course he thrives in a conversational game like this one. In fact, that's one reason to keep him alive, I enjoy having him around. In this game, with Palmar as scumbuddy, if there was ever a game where mafia!Artanis would post this much, this would be it. His confirmed town list is suspicious. Buddying, a great excuse to sneak a mafia in, and an excuse to partially avoid scumhunting. I don't think he's done many original pushes. And now, as you pointed out, he was heavily mafia siding. I have one or two potential good town explanations for this, but I'll keep to myself for now. You know, I'll go with this for now. Definitely could move off, though. Looking forward to Artanis's response. ##vote Artanis[Xp] | ||
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